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/lit/ - Literature

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11186940 No.11186940 [Reply] [Original]

I have just finished reading Chapter 24 of the Claw of the Conciliator, and I'm confused. Is the symbolic meaning of all the characters of the play something I was supposed to have already understood?

Also, is it normal to be confused in some parts while reading the books for the first time?

>> No.11187036

I don't think a single thing written in this book is meaningless and whatever you are confused about will be illuminated or at least contextualised. It's written in such a way as to disguise or mislead and later reveal vital details that change the entire meaning of the thing.

>> No.11187075

>>11187036
I'm just a bit concerned that, with all those mysterious and yet unexplained details, something important might slip my mind.

>> No.11187095

Hurry up and finish so you can get to the good stuff: the first re-read

>> No.11187106

>>11187095
Alright, now you have made me nervous, lol

>> No.11187125

>>11186940
I remember stopping many times during my first read-through a couple years back just to look things up online that might explain it better for me, and to be honest I wish I hadn't.
It's as >>11187036 says, really

>> No.11187131

>>11187075
That is a concern, but it was not for me, for it is my curse to remember all things and forget none. :^)

>> No.11187147

>I never layed with Thecla
>two books later
>I layed with Thecla
what did he mean by this

>> No.11187188

>>11187131
I must admit that I lol'd

>>11187147
Maybe some weird memory of Thecla or something?

>> No.11187262

Will this book be hard to read for a non-native who have only read several classics?

>> No.11187271

>>11187262
Ugh, I think not, despite the fact that it contains several strange terms. Depends on your level in english though. (I'm a non-native too)

>> No.11187935

>>11187147
It is a different Severian, from another timeline

>> No.11187947

What was the thing in the cave of man apes?

>> No.11187964

>>11187947
I think it was the Undine.

>> No.11189562

>>11187964
OK that's the only thing I could think of too

>> No.11189597

>>11187964
But the undines work for Abaia, who lives in the sea. Erebus lives underground, the noise was probably related to him.

>> No.11190414

>>11187947
It is the giant walking tower that serves the autarch which appears in citadel right after the autarch on his elephant - the steps of the elephant remind sev of the clanking chains in the dark of the mines. The apes serve the autarch, and afterwards he knows the autarch’s defenses. When sev and Jonas talk about it, sev asks how human soldiers can fight giant sea powers, even mentioning the wall. That’s how. He keeps it secret because it is the autarch’s defense. The clanking chains are not its manacles but the mechanical parts of the tower.

>> No.11190417

>>11189597
That cave is the autarch’s mine and the apes serve him. Sev knows the words to command them at the end.

>> No.11190419

He raped her sister, Jolenta

>> No.11190439

>>11190419
Jolenta is nobody’s sister broski. (See what I did there?)

>> No.11190454

>>11190414
Oh fuck that's interesting

>> No.11190478

>>11187106
Don't be. This book is a rarity: it's a different story each time you read it. And for me, each one was a good one. Just read it, don't look up anything other than archaic words, and prepare for greatness. If you don't want to reread it, I'll be surprised, but you also won't feel short changed because the story of the first read-through is an enjoyable picaresque story.

>> No.11190496

>>11190478
>the story of the first read-through is an enjoyable picaresque story
What is it the second time through?

>> No.11190592

>>11190496
I'm not the most intelligent guy, but for me it was still an enjoyable picaresque novel, except I felt differently about the characters and their motivations, and the goings-on in the world suddenly made more sense scientifically. To say more would be to risk spoiling important things. Basically, the full nature of the narrator's unreliability is slowly clarified, which makes Severian's actions in the books mean different things than they may have meant to you on first go.

>> No.11190616

>>11190592
And I should mention that some of the asides written by the "translator" of the story shed more light on things like flora, fauna, society, and etc, which serves to do more than add detail to the world. Understanding the society/caste system in particular can reveal a lot about characters that you've already made assumptions about in your reading.

>> No.11191641

>>11190414
That makes a lot of sense, true.

>> No.11191647

>>11190478
Well, it's true, it is a great story to read. I'm just nervous because I have a very large to-read list.

>> No.11191802

>>11187075
Don't worry, that's how your supposed to feel. The book is structured in such a way that events and details are given additional meaning in retrospect, so that when you re-read it, you have those meanings when you encounters said events and details anew.
Remember that Wolfe said that he thinks the best books are the ones that are better upon each reread.

>> No.11191805

>>11190616
To build upon what this anon said, there's a detail in the final appendix in Citadel that completely sheds new light on Severian. And it's not a "twist" or anything trivial like that, moreso revealing what the underlying nature of the narrative was.

>> No.11191900

>>11191802
Alright then, sceduled for a re-read some time in the future. To be honest, the Fifth Head of Cerberus made sense to me only because I read some parts twice, so I guess I should've expected that.

>>11191805
Do you think a reader should begin with the Appendix? I've just started reading the Sword of the Lictor by the way.

>> No.11192516

By the way, has anybody read the Book of the Long Sun and the Book of the Short Sun trilogies? Any opinions about them?

>> No.11192590

>>11192516
Short Sun is amazing. You should seek out Aramini’s work on it if you can find it after you read it. So much going on.

>> No.11192592

>>11186940
HEY I just started reading this, about 50 pages in. Was a bit bored at the beginning but I just read the chapter about the dog and, man, something about the pointlessness of it was really immersive and comfy. The chapters are like little short stories. Can't wait to see where it goes :)

>> No.11192593

>>11192590
You need to read long sun first though

>> No.11192735

>>11192592
OP here, keep going. I promise it becomes amazing as you keep reading.

>>11192590
Good to know, I'm definitely checking them after finishing the New Sun series. Thanks for the info.

>> No.11193255

>less than 4 stars on amazon
no thankyou

>> No.11193346

>>11193255
I know this is bait, but I'm actually glad that people below a certain level of cognitive function and appreciation for art are completely lost when they try to read this. The goodreads reviews are hilarious.

>> No.11193498

>>11186940
The play has 2 distinct symbolic meanings, one being in relation to the characters as the actors, and one being as it pertains to the lost "Book of the New Sun" and the eschatological mythos.

>> No.11193899

>>11191805
I don’t recall, what is this? Spoiler tag it or something

>> No.11195290

>>11193498
I see. Thanks for the info, I guess I'm going to figure out the second meaning in due time.

>> No.11195501

honestly guys? it is mediocre at best with a horrible mcguffin as the claw.

Also
>meme sword

>> No.11196881

>>11195501
genrepleb detected

>> No.11197487

>>11195501
Well, if you think so, that's fine, and there's no reason for you to participate in this thread.

>> No.11197550

>>11186940
The war with Ascia is so fucking weird and crazy it's my favorite part of the book by far.

>> No.11197595

So what was the deal with Erebus, Abaia and Baldanders?

>> No.11197669

>>11197595
Aliens?

>> No.11197758

Okay, question. What the hell was the torturers' guild secret that the masters told Severian in the first book?

Also, whenever I see the "I'm not a robot" verification, I think of Jonas .

>> No.11198358

>>11197758
The secret is that they obey, without question or sense of morality

>> No.11198486

>>11198358
Lol. And why is this a secret? Also why do they only tell it to apprentices who are about to become journeymen?