/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11177100]

Where do I start with Buddhism?

[Anonymous No.11177105]

Start with Greeks.

[Anonymous No.11177123]

>>11177100
You don't, it's life denying crap

[Anonymous No.11177124]

>>11177105
this unironically

[Anonymous No.11177137]

pali canon

[Anonymous No.11177145]

>>11177100

[Anonymous No.11177151]

Dhammapada is pretty easy to read even with no background

[Anonymous No.11177159]

>>11177145
why is the zen meme so well accepted in the west? is it because you don't have to actually do anything?

[Anonymous No.11177168]

the chinese hindeology of death, the murderation of desire, the absurdest password of the deviled by lies, the sacrifiset in the name of go-od and losst for the sake of unihealthy 'hapines', the guns of roses england brought buddyism in the xxi century. directly on the table brand zuckerberg and glory zizek. iguanic plague rifled, masquerade of tibetan glords and femaled creatures succubal dream-love paradise of dutch sailohs. meta legalisation of slaWEry by dharmic wheeled professor of Buzzel. innerest fat dream of the wadderland. shoigy.

[Anonymous No.11177177]

>>11177168
breddy decent for a meme

[Anonymous No.11177230]

>>11177159
>is it because you don't have to actually do anything
kys brainlet

[Anonymous No.11177256]

>>11177100
identify who is a failure and who is not, refuse to do the same as people who fail, follow the people who success

[Anonymous No.11177262]

>>11177168
Thanks Nick

[Anonymous No.11177264]

>>11177100
Personally "Buddhist Scriptures" by Edward Conze served as a great intro to Buddhism in general for me.

[Anonymous No.11177273]

>>11177230
is it though? explain to me otherwise the appeal

[Anonymous No.11177283]

>>11177159
Maybe because the increasing speed of life makes people want to look for alternatives. I also don't like how buddhism is conflated with Zen.

[Anonymous No.11177295]

>>11177283
zen is buddhism though, who says it isn't? what do the Shaolin monks practice otherwise? and their order was founded by the guy who literally started zen

[Anonymous No.11177317]

>>11177145
Some of these look like self-help crap. Which ones are actually scripture/scholarly?

>>11177264
Thanks!

>>11177151
Any particular translation?

[Anonymous No.11177332]

>>11177295
But Buddhism is practiced everywhere from Sri Lanka up to Japan and down to Thailand.
Shaolin or Zen aren't enough for a comprehensive understanding I imagine, since I've read nothing.

[Anonymous No.11177342]

Buddhism is depressing, kind of like catholic flagellanti desu. Dalai lama seems pretty cool, so maybe only Western buddhism and Theravada are depression inducing. Feel free to prove me wrong.

[Anonymous No.11177347]

>>11177332
probably not, too many traditions and mixes with different traditions

[Anonymous No.11177350]

>>11177100
you dont
read the bible anon
false religion go to hell

[Anonymous No.11177368]

>>11177350
Return to /pol/, my friend.

[Anonymous No.11177461]

>>11177159
Was introduced to hippies by Suzuki, probably when Buddhism started becoming seen as some kind of new age shit in the west instead of a religion

[Anonymous No.11177476]

>>11177461
wasn't Suzuki a chad that thought that you can follow your duty and obliterate your enemies in a zen way though?

[Anonymous No.11177512]

>>11177159
It’s big because it can mostly be interpreted as secular self-help stuff, it doesn’t ask you to revere spirits or deities or posit a God, not a heavy emphasis on dogma and ritual, in fact deliberately iconoclastic and eccentric at times (kill the Buddha if you meet the Buddha), etc. Sufism has extremely similar traditions and stories of eccentric/iconoclastic masters, as well as states of no-ego/non-duality, but since they dress it up as union with Allah and reverence for Muhammad and the Quran and so on, it’s not as appealing.

I think its easy to see why Zen has become so popular. It’s spirituality (or something like it) trimmed down of a lot of extraneous faith and trappings, which is likable to the secular Western society. I mean this is a bit of a misinterpretation because actually people might be surprised that real Zen monasteries might be more reverent of the Buddha and have more “trappings” than you’d think, reciting ancient sutras and having a strict disciplined regimen and so on. The form which it’s been presented to in the West, however, just makes it seem like a cool “live in the moment, be mindful, be calm, be able to react fluidly and spontaneously to the demands of th situation” philosophy.

(also, if you go to a real Zen monastery/know what it’s like, you’ll see it’s not true “you don’t have to do anything”, these motherfuckers will make you wake up extremely early, meditate for hours in a row facing a wall, work on gardening and cooking and cleaning around the monastery, and reward you with sparse and simple meals of rice and the like, for example. It’s representations of Zen for the West that have made it softer and less rigorous seeming. “Wow, anyone can be Zen as they just go through life. #sozen”. This is definitely true according to Zen tradition, that a layman can attain enlightenment/greater awareness just living life mindfully, but a real Zen master might scoff at the undisciplined way people go at it and take bits and pieces of tradition from here and there.)

[Anonymous No.11177530]

>>11177159
It’s big because it can mostly be interpreted as secular self-help stuff, it doesn’t ask you to revere spirits or deities or posit a God, not a heavy emphasis on dogma and ritual, in fact deliberately iconoclastic and eccentric at times (kill the Buddha if you meet the Buddha), etc. Sufism has extremely similar traditions and stories of eccentric/iconoclastic masters, as well as states of no-ego/non-duality, but since they dress it up as union with Allah and reverence for Muhammad and the Quran and so on, it’s not as appealing.

I think its easy to see why Zen has become so popular. It’s spirituality (or something like it) trimmed down of a lot of extraneous faith and trappings, which is likable to the secular Western society. I mean this is a bit of a misinterpretation because actually people might be surprised that real Zen monasteries might be more reverent of the Buddha and have more “trappings” than you’d think, reciting ancient sutras and having a strict disciplined regimen and so on. The form which it’s been presented to in the West, however, just makes it seem like a cool “live in the moment, be mindful, be calm, be able to react fluidly and spontaneously to the demands of th situation” philosophy.

(also, if you go to a real Zen monastery/know what it’s like, you’ll see it’s not true “you don’t have to do anything”, these motherfuckers will make you wake up extremely early, meditate for hours in a row facing a wall, work on gardening and cooking and cleaning around the monastery, whack you with a stick if you’re not paying attention, and reward you with sparse and simple meals of rice and the like, for example. There was even a hilarious story on this board a while back, I think, about some guy who visited a Zen monastery to check it out and was being shown around, and a monk walking by just nut-tapped him and kept walking. It’s representations of Zen for the West that have made it softer and less rigorous seeming. “Wow, anyone can be Zen as they just go through life. #sozen”. This is definitely true according to Zen tradition, that a layman can attain enlightenment/greater awareness just living life mindfully, but a real Zen master might scoff at the undisciplined way people go at it and take bits and pieces of tradition from here and there.)

[Anonymous No.11177546]

>>11177530
That monastery sounds awesome

[Anonymous No.11177559]

>>11177530
>in fact deliberately iconoclastic and eccentric at times (kill the Buddha if you meet the Buddha)
>It’s spirituality (or something like it) trimmed down of a lot of extraneous faith and trappings
weren't those kinds of teaching designed for a time and society where people might have fallen into over-ritualization and mistaken symbols for the real things? i wonder if those kind of teachings are the mostly counter-productive for the current world as most people are already by default dismissive of any mention of the sacred and instead of producing a "break" they just pander to the same pre-suppositions people have, so nothing is really challenged and it leaves you in a comfortable position where nothing has to be evaluated

i guess they may still be useful for people that fall for things just because they sound exotic, but still sounds like the confirming pre-suppositions side of it is too strong to just ignore

[Anonymous No.11177571]

>>11177546
The way I put it sounds peaceful but you’re missing the part where you sit in front of a wall doing zazen meditation for 6 hours straight

[Anonymous No.11177691]

>>11177342
It is depressing in some ways and relieving in others. Depressing in the sense that seemingly innocuous misdeeds can land you eons in hellish torture, relieving in the sense that you really can fuck up all you want and you'll never be doomed forever like Christianity. Even those trapped in avici hell have an opportunity to escape their suffering, although the sentence there is so long that it can't even be comprehended, your negative karma will eventually burn off and after numerous rebirths into avici hell you'll leave that place, even if it takes innumerable eons.

It seems like whenever I think about Buddhism it is both depressing and joyous at the same time. Being born a human during an age where the practice of the dharma is even possible is as unlikely as a blind sea turtle, who surfaces only once every 100 years for a breath, surfacing precisely within a golden yoke floating randomly in the ocean to take their centennial breath. In a sense we are absurdly fortunate and should be overjoyed to even be humans and to know the Buddha existed at all, but at the same time, the notion that enlightenment is such a rare occurrence in the universe is depressing as well, in the grand scheme of things.

[Anonymous No.11177746]

>>11177571

That's the part that sounds cool. You don't get enlightenment without pain.

[Anonymous No.11177779]

Besides the ones already posted, any core mahayana texts that you guys know? I heard the Taisho Tripitaka is basically the most widely used one but i don't know where to start with it, or if there is a good translation.
How reliable is the BDK project, where should I start on that website?

[Anonymous No.11178170]

>>11177746
Whatever floats your boat. It’s not meant to be cool, though.

>>11177691
>weren't those kinds of teaching designed for a time and society where people might have fallen into over-ritualization and mistaken symbols for the real things?
To an extent, yeah. It’s also the philosophical underpinning itself of the emptiness and conditioned nature of all existence, which seems to lead to a necessary minimizing of the significance of any symbol, rite, personage, etc. More seemingly religious paths may say, “it’s good to revere Jesus/Muhammad/Mary and worship and give thanks to God and pray and partake and these communal rituals because these are real spiritual entities you’re contacting thereby.” If as a side effect you gain greater mindfulness and a more contemplative nature, as well religious emotions of joy, hope, love, intense faith, etc, well, that’s great, it’s a gift from God. For Zen, it’s more, “We have these rituals and writings and sutras and masters we revere, especially Buddha, but if your focus on these is detrimental to enlightenment, then don’t worry about them, they don’t have some transcendental significance in themselves”

[Anonymous No.11178180]

Buddhism sees the primordial void for what it is, but as ultimately generative.

[Anonymous No.11178698]

bump

[Anonymous No.11178705]

>>11178698
no

[Anonymous No.11178712]

>>11178705
???

[Anonymous No.11179204]

>>11178170
Sorry, meant to respond to >>11177559, not >>11177691

[Anonymous No.11179218]

>>11177168
thank you Uncle, pls Twatter needs your insights into bluecheckmark/cathedral psychology
>>11177273
there is no appeal, most people have never read a single line from a Zen text, Zen means Japanese Buddha Jesus Cultism and Yoga shit, it has nothing at all to do with the Zen school in china besides pretending to care about famous sayings they used
>>11177295
the Shaolin monks practice a chimeric belief of Zen, pure land Buddhism and Taoism, and New Age Falun gong style autism
>>11177476
No he was a Fascist retard who didn’t understand Zen and pretended to be enlightened
>>11177530
low iq sperging is so ugly, so happy i grew out of that shit

[Anonymous No.11179272]

The Four Noble Truths is all you need.

[Anonymous No.11179361]

>>11179218
>muh zen is a cult and not #realbuddhism because i said so
>everything is fascism
give it a rest

[Anonymous No.11180707]

>>11179218
so is there anybody that actually understand zen apart from you? or are they all phonies except you?

[Anonymous No.11181249]

>>11177168
Jesus fucking christ dude

[Anonymous No.11181491]

>>11179218

>>>/r/zen

[Anonymous No.11183190]

>>11179218
I’m confused why you think >>11177530 is low iq sperging when it’s just a post about how Zen’s seemingly secular and de-ritualized nature has made it easily adaptable for and popular in the West.

[Anonymous No.11183426]

>>11177100
Heard good things about the tibetan book of living and dying

But if you want a more authentic introduction i would recommend the lam-rim - maybe the middle one.

[Anonymous No.11183472]

>>11179361
No DT Suzuki was a Fascist specifically.
>>11180707
https://terebess.hu/zen/zen.html#1
>>11181491
they don’t want me there at all
>>11183190
because not only are they speaking in bad faith, but they’ve conflated Japanese Zen with Zen the school in the Tang and Song dynasties, Zen the lineage of traveling mystics in China (descended from Gandharan Indo-Bactrian Lanka school monks) and Zen the teaching, the latter 3 of which have nothing to do with the former. His diction is extremely poor belying a lack of deep thought, inability to compress makes the post painful to read and the frivolous nature of the shallow post is glaring when one begins considering how few things he said are relevant to Zen or are true of Zen. No one in China who knew Zen taught people to do what Americans do with Japanese Zen Buddhism as taught by ex-yoga instructors.

[Anonymous No.11183484]

>>11183472
but the lineage is dead, so it's pointless to speak about zen anymore, whatever it is now it's has not been transmitted by anybody who was actually initiated

[Anonymous No.11183492]

>>11183472
>https://terebess.hu/zen/zen.html#1
>Julius Evola (1898-1974)
nice

[Anonymous No.11183606]

I love Jesus and all he embodies, his apostles and especially apostel Paulus, but I despise the Old Testament with a firery passion that makes me embarassed for everytime it is refrenced as jsutification or proof as to why Jesus is the Son of God and the savior.
Recommendation for this feel?

[Anonymous No.11183634]

>>11183606
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsyzklLnV4k

[Anonymous No.11183695]

>>11183634

[Anonymous No.11183974]

To be honest I can't really understand why some people claim that Buddhism is "depressing". I would say that it it is liberating, because you can finally understand the nature of self, reality, desire and suffering. Most of Buddha's statue present him with a smile, and I think this is how Buddhism should be represented- as a happy realization and liberation.
Also I really recommend the books of Thich Nhat Hanh, they are generally short and easy reads and can help you a lot

[Anonymous No.11184001]

stop your evola posting and start with the lam-rim

[Anonymous No.11184011]

Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind
Opening The Hand Of Thought
The Compass Of Zen
The Zen Teaching Of Homeless Kodo

[Anonymous No.11184273]

>>11183606
Maybe read up about Marcion, he had basically the same opinion as you. He loved Jesus and Paul but totally rejected the Old Testament as coming from a false god. He was probably the first to make a New Testament canon list.

[Anonymous No.11184333]

>>11184273
Marcion of Sinope was an important figure in early Christianity. His theology rejected the deity described in the Hebrew Scriptures and in distinction affirmed the Father of Christ as the true God.
True. I might like this guy.

[Anonymous No.11184355]

>>11177530
I think part of the problem is that Buddhism requires a greater depth of understanding in terms of why it's teachings are beneficial, lots of things are left open to interpretation and so westerners jump on the whole live in the moment parts, whereas bona fide monks are taught the benefits of mindfulness and such. It's kind of like how you can read endless self help books and learn nothing unless you're in the right mindset from the start.

Non secular, organised religions posit all these moralistic stories and provide a more rigorous structure for their teaching so that the average layman can reap the benefits without having to think critically about how and why they're benefiting from living in accordance with the laws of the religion.

[Anonymous No.11184392]

>>11183484
>>11183492
if you had read Zen texts as closely as you did tradfag books you’d know there is a whole species of Man who is born with “extraordinary perception” and who “understand at just a few words” and that half the masters and poets had barely any instruction. there is also a distinct possibility someone could revive the lineage outside the name of Zen. this is still no reason to side step what I said which is that the poster was a sperg, Zen has nothing to do with Yoga studio buddhism and meditation retreats, Japs aren’t Zennists they openly admit to incorporating Pure Land and Shinto, Suzuki was a fascist by de facto
>>11183606
what did your face look like before your parents were born christfaggot?

[Anonymous No.11184407]

>>11177123
>I have no idea what I'm talking about, yet proceed to shit on it anyway.

GET YE GONE MUTTKEK

[Anonymous No.11184414]

>>11177100
Don´t talk about Buddhism

[Anonymous No.11184778]

>>11183606
I'm curious how you square that position with the fact that Jesus literally quotes the the Old Testament all the time. It's always seemed to me that you pretty much have the take the Old with the New.

[Anonymous No.11184826]

>>11184778
I literally said I feel embarassement whenever the Old is qouted in the New testament.
And it shouldn't be impossible to see that the Gospel could have worked without the prophecies that finally came true through Jesus. Maybe the people in year 10 AD needed that to believe but today, to find those jsutifications unnecessary, shouldn't seem to unfathomable.

[Anonymous No.11184852]

>>11184392
What is Zen?

[Anonymous No.11184867]

>>11184852
the sound of blood pooling in a stream
>>11184826
>it shouldn't be impossible to see that the Gospel could have worked without the prophecies that finally came true through Jesus
I have no words for how damning this is
>to find those jsutifications unnecessary, shouldn't seem to unfathomable
Again, truly we live in the darkest of times

[Anonymous No.11184881]

>>11184826
But the New Testament only makes sense in context of the Old, the whole NT is a response to the OT.

[Anonymous No.11184894]

>>11184881
>is a response t
not a response. It's a sequel.
Did you watch Bladerunner 2049? (ofc you did)
Many didn't watch the first one but still got the message of the new one.
Now take out the refrences and hommages to the first one and the bladerunner2049 would still be a great movie.
That is how you should view the New Testament possibly being used in relation to the Old.

[Anonymous No.11184903]

>>11184894
I'm not going to save this because I strongly disapprove of shaming or bullying others but my God this is embarassing

[Anonymous No.11184906]

>>11184903

[Anonymous No.11184911]

[sage and report No.11184924]

>>11184906
>>11184911

[Anonymous No.11184927]

>>11184924
>announcing sage and report

[Anonymous No.11184932]

>>11184927
I didn't sage or report your replies you mentally ill nigger

[Anonymous No.11184948]

>>11179272
Sorry, did you mean the Four Aryan Truths? :3

[Anonymous No.11185000]

>>11184894
The NT doesn't make homages though, it is saturated inside and out with the OT. The OT is the complete grounding for the Gospel. Without it, what is Christ saving you from?

[Anonymous No.11185036]

>>11185000
checked, I think they are just being a faggot and shitposting

[Anonymous No.11185149]

>>11184867
>the sound of blood pooling in a stream
Then what’s the use of your historical distinctions?

[Anonymous No.11185224]

>>11185036
Probably, but it is a pretty common sentiment.

[Anonymous No.11185237]

>>11185149
why even get up this morning?
>>11185224
yes, but the person’s knee jerk response above samefagging and defaulting to autism is the sign of a dead soul trying to farm attention

[Anonymous No.11185244]

>>11177100
Jack Kerouac

[Anonymous No.11186128]

>>11184948
Considering "Aryan" was used in the sense of "Noble / Accomplished" then yes, anon probably did mean that.

[Anonymous No.11186352]

>>11184392
i don't know man, everything sounds too convenient for your own pet interpretation of zen, i am not saying you are wrong, but i don't see any way to confirm that you are right being zen a dead lineage

you may revive it or you may create something else and call it zen, nobody can tell anymore because there's nobody qualified to do it

[Anonymous No.11186359]

>>11177100

Pure Land sutras

[Anonymous No.11186365]

>>11185237
it's sunny :3

[Anonymous No.11186423]

>>11177168
Nioce

[Anonymous No.11186425]

If you cannot bother to have read the sticky, then you do not deserve to be told how to find the way. Only those who would leave all thread making behind and retreat into the sticky can truly find the way. The one who would turn from such avariciousness I would truly call a bhikshu.

[Anonymous No.11186441]

start with the blues

https://www.discogs.com/label/72211-Document-Records-2?page=1

[Anonymous No.11186451]

>>11177168
"Schizo needs help"

[Anonymous No.11186504]

>>11177168
Decent

[Anonymous No.11187320]

>>11186128
That's Nazi revisionist propoganda.

[Anonymous No.11187353]

>>11187320
No it's not, the Four Noble Truths are a translation of what actually says the "Four Truths of the Aryan (Ones)."

The thing is though, in this context it literally just meant "pure" or "worthy of respect", not some sort of ethnic identifier. You could be a born in as an untouchable Dravidian and still end up an Aryan if you follow the Buddha's teaching to completion.

[Anonymous No.11187381]

>>11177100
Siddhartha by Herman Hesse

[Anonymous No.11187451]

>>11187381
best be trolling

[Anonymous No.11187472]

>>11177100
Bernard Faure - Unmasking Buddhism

Richard H. Robinson - The Buddhist Religion. A Historical Introduction.

Afterwards, go for the traditional texts (sutras and/or tantras) that interest you the most.