Profanity in literature

[Anonymous No.11168814]

How do you guys feel about profanity in literature? Do you like/hate it?

Does extensive use of profanity automatically disqualify a novel from being literary fiction?

Is there a highly regarded author who uses a lot of explicit language and yet is considered somewhat “highbrow”?

Me personally, I wouldn’t want it to be gratuitous, but I really think that in certain contexts it adds something to the table.

Pic related.

[Anonymous No.11168841]

Not worth talking about. It works when it fits the character. I think most people respect bukowski but he's certainly not highbrow

[Anonymous No.11168871]

>>11168814

Bad language in society is similar to the volume of talk in a crowded room. If everyone agrees to speak quietly, one person can get an advantage by speaking a bit louder, but then it escalates and everyone ends up speaking louder and louder and everyone loses out. Good old Prisoner's Dilemma rears its ugly head again :(
In the same way, with language, it is useful to designate certain words as "taboo", only to be used as pressure-release valves in extreme circumstances. But once you do that, the person who uses them just a bit more often than everyone else gains certain advantages (he will get more attention, for one thing) and soon everyone's doing it.

I'm pretty strongly against the casual use of bad language. However, I accept no-one on /lit/ is ever going to be convinced. Perhaps it's an age thing. I swore a lot in my 20s too.

[Anonymous No.11168885]

>>11168814
I don't really know how you can have an opinion on profanity in literature. It can exist for a reason and without one, just like it is in real life. It just exists.

[Anonymous No.11168890]

>>11168814
Seems necessary if you want to capture the zeitgeist desu. Or is it just me that has an extremely profane inner monologue.

[Anonymous No.11168924]

>>11168814
What I don't like about bad language is the way it tends to aggregate different meanings over time, for example when you say something is shit it's generally because it's bad in some way, but the specifics depend entirely on context. This would be fine except that a lot of people rely so heavily on all-encompassing swear words that they can't express their meaning in any other way. I feel like over reliance on swear words is steadily diminishing our vocabularies and in some ways our range of thought.

Having said that, I still swear all the time.

[Anonymous No.11169245]

I hate when pre-WWII literature censors swear words with em dashes.
Like: —damn or G—damn or —t

[Anonymous No.11169318]

>>11168814
used to not like it then I read Catullus

[Anonymous No.11169350]

>>11168814
It depends on how it used.

[Anonymous No.11169409]

>>11168814
>How do you guys feel about profanity in literature? Do you like/hate it?
I like it when it's used appropriately. I dislike it if it's used inappropriately.

>Does extensive use of profanity automatically disqualify a novel from being literary fiction?
No. In fact, genre fiction is the one that doesn't want to disturb its readers too much, and it'll shy away from profanity sooner than literary fiction.

>Is there a highly regarded author who uses a lot of explicit language and yet is considered somewhat “highbrow”?
Just half an hour ago I caught a bit of a film, a court drama about Allen Ginsburg and his poem "Howl", accused of profanity.
Really, this discussion should be settled down at this point. Profanity in books, nudity in theater, sex in films, they are functional elements of a work of art, and are criticized by fake moralists who only want their safe and comfortable (often "highbrow") diversion and entertainment.

[Anonymous No.11169424]

>>11168814

Celine's Journey to the End of the Night is a novel that comes to mind as highbrow while using lots of profanity. And it wouldn't be the same without it.

[Anonymous No.11169519]

>>11169424
Thanks, I’ll be sure to finally check it out.

[Anonymous No.11169527]

>>11169409
>I like it when it's used appropriately.
Define “appropriately”.

[Anonymous No.11169654]

>>11169527
It has logical aesthetic purpose within the whole. Nudity in theater is often just used for a bit of shock, for example, but when it is used well, when it carries meaning and is logically located within the narrative, it can be very powerful, and is appropriate.
I can try to provide examples if you want?

[Anonymous No.11171084]

>>11169654
Sure. Fire away.

[Anonymous No.11171153]

>>11168814
It depends on how its handled and used none of the random "fuck" or "damn you to hell" or any of the other cliché naughty words you'd find in a teenage drama or fanfiction. But profanity used in such away that it does not demean the book in such away where it becomes trash.

[Anonymous No.11171179]

>>11168814
>americans unironically think this is profanity