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/lit/ - Literature

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11145392 No.11145392 [Reply] [Original]

What is the point of becoming a great writer if it doesn't even make you happy?

>> No.11145463

being happy is overrated

putting happiness as the goal of life is idiotic

embrace suffering, simply out of loyalty to others that suffer

>> No.11145468

>>11145392
>tactically double the value of some diehard's vote

Thats... not how the maths work...

>> No.11145471

Writing was the only thing that made that guy truely happy, that was the whole point. He spent most of his adult life obsessing about being a writer that when he thought he couldn't write anymore, he ended it.

>> No.11145473

>>11145463
Sounds like sour grapes to me desu. Why should i embrace suffering when it is largely avoidable?

>> No.11145480

>>11145471
So ultimately writing did not fulfill him it was a hollow gesture

>> No.11145488

>>11145480
No. It was the only thing that fulfilled him. He couldn't live any longer if he couldn't be a writer.

>> No.11145506

>>11145488
Yeah but he could have continued writing. What was stopping him?

>> No.11145513
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11145513

>>11145473
suffering is the only reality

pursuing your own happiness is meaningless, I'd rather suffer out of solidarity

>> No.11145514

>>11145506
the rope around his neck

>> No.11145520

>>11145514
*Belt

>> No.11145527

>>11145506
He thought he lost his ability to write. He even obsessed about regretting smoking weed when he was younger because he thought that had effected his brain and hindered his writing. You understand now? Writing was the only thing keeping him alive, he is on record saying after his first suicide attempt, that he will "become a writer or die trying".

>> No.11145559

>>11145513
How is that even solidarity? You could try to make others happy instead.

>> No.11145577

>>11145527
Dumping your self image into the shell of "writer" is bad faith

>> No.11145586

>>11145559
you misunderstand

If you pursue happiness, you might shy away from helping others
if you don't care about happiness and have embraced suffering, you might have more chances to make life better for others

>> No.11145597

>>11145586
If you reject happiness altogether there is no reason to help others. Like in Basho's travel diary when they just abandon that starving infant by the river, that is what you get with rigorous buddhism.

>> No.11145600

>>11145473

Because it is not largely avoidable. In fact, it is 100% inescapable. You will care about something at a certain point, and you will lose it - not only for the fact that you have to die at a certain point.

>> No.11145607

>>11145577
Maybe, He had the idea of being a famous writer in his head, and he wouldn't take anything else. He also wanted to remain a "good" writer. He wouldn't allow himself to be "just a writer". So even if he could still write, just the fact that his writing was hindered he wouldn't allow it.

>> No.11145620

>>11145600
Learn to appreciate loss maturely and this is not a problem

>> No.11145627

>>11145597
you haven't taken your straw man far enough

just say that if I embrace suffering I should do my hardest to make life as unbearable as I can for myself and others, kill, rape and torture out of hatred for all creation, if suffering is permitted to exist it should be felt by everyone, all the time

>> No.11145630

>>11145607
So in the end writing failed to make him happy; in fact it made him more miserable.

>> No.11145647

>>11145630
Yes. He got happiness from people reading his books and Infinite Jest and getting fame, and women. So he got happiness from writing, but ulimately writing killed him.

>> No.11145659

>>11145513
It doesn't pay to speculate, but I get the feeling from posts like this that you haven't truely suffered yet. I have a feeling you will at some point in your life give in to happiness.

>> No.11145683

>>11145659
>you haven't truely suffered yet

oh yeah? tell me what I have to do to have "truely [sic!] suffered" and I'll do it I dare you

>> No.11145694

>>11145683
Suffering is a crescendo which takes a build up of events most of which cannot be contrived, one has to have been truly happy to truly suffer.

>> No.11145702

>>11145392
>>11145480
>>11145488
>>11145506

There is an ongoing narrative of redemption of suffering through art which is simply false.
Achieving stuff in life does not redeem you from the fact of being in pain or from having suffered trauma at a certain point in your life - which you will. All the losses you suffer, you will suffer forever. There is no such thing as healing, forgiving or forgetting - not for the important thing. To think so, is the equivalent of the religious belief that the dead can come back to life.
This narrative is part of a larger narrative about the value of the individual pursue of happyness - the nature of which is absolutely obscure - according to which everyone is on a quest toward self-fulfilling and self-fulfillment is available for everyone. Now this idea of happiness is very modern and very "american", in a sense: it has to do with the individual, self-realization, and the ability of making a life of your own. Being happy is about you: you getting the girl of your dreams, the house of your dreams, the job of your dreams. Basically, you getting recognition for being important. And the idea behind the redemptive vision of artistic achievement is the same: you getting recognized and redeemed from your suffering because you have done something.

Truth is, life is not really about you. Nietzsche said: "what matters about my happiness? What truly matters is my work." That is the idea that should be behind art and action in general. Certain actions are worth pursuing in themselves, not because they bring something positive to you. Life is meaningless if it is self-centered. It gains meaning if you project what you do in a scheme where the action you are performing is more important than you are. The inner coherence that makes a book - as well as any work of art, as well as any action - beautiful is more important than any recognition you may get out of it and it is worth sacrificing your time and yourself to.

>> No.11145709

>>11145620

>appreciate loss

Unironically teach me or give me some advice, please.

>> No.11145720

>>11145694
>one has to have been truly happy to truly suffer.

so I have to attain one impossibly arbitrary state to attain the other impossibly arbitrary state? for fucks sake, just say that I can't truly have or will have suffered, as you are the only person that has achieved that

>> No.11145726

>>11145683
There are unimaginable suffering going in mental hospitals, on a mental level. There are parents who get children with menigitis and have to amputate their childs hands and feet. There are homeless people who have to sleep on the ground in dirt, who pray to have some happiness in their life. There are countless horror stories through-out history of horror and torture. Prisoners in prison work out because exercise increases dopamine because they get depressed if they dont, they are forced to be happy, because there is unimaginable suffering coming your way if you don't.

>> No.11145732

>>11145702
You are arguing with a strawman.
>>11145709
My little brother died when we were teenagers and i went to grief counseling while in work release from prison. It really helped me out the basic idea is you don't have to stop loving someone if they are not in your presence.

>> No.11145738

>>11145694
This is a better version of what I just wrote. He understands it, this knowledge comes with age.>>11145726

>> No.11145742

>>11145720
The point i was making is that you can't intentionally induce an authentic emotional experience

>> No.11145750

>>11145392

what's the point of being happy if it doesn't make you a great writer?

>> No.11145751

>>11145738
I do think it is age or maybe just experience. There are probably ex child soldiers who laugh more easily and openly than a lot of 30 year olds who wallow in first world problems.

>> No.11145758

>>11145751
Yes, it's both.

>> No.11145767

>>11145726
each of these examples twists and paints people as martyrs, when these are just normal people in different situations, the homeless man might want to suffer, the prisoners might want to rape an inmate, and so on, they're just people, suffering doesn't make them noble or villains either, and they might not see their own situation as especially filled with suffering as well

>> No.11145774

>>11145751
children can't feel paint though, they're just automatons, especially the brown ones

>> No.11145785

>>11145597
>If you reject happiness altogether there is no reason to help others. Like in Basho's travel diary when they just abandon that starving infant by the river, that is what you get with rigorous buddhism.
That isn't Buddhism. Buddha himself, after fasting for a long time, decided to eat because he realized it was fruitless. He rejected both the lifestyles of the uninspired worlding who lives a life of luxury and the life of the ascetic at that time, instead opting for the Middle Path as he called it.

>> No.11145798
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11145798

>>11145785
>instead opting for the Middle Path as he called it.

centrist master race

>> No.11145801
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11145801

>>11145468
>the maths

>> No.11145808

>>11145801
why did that trigger your autism little frog

>> No.11145809

>>11145785
It is weird i was just talking about that very story to my wife :) you are right of course i said that to be inflammatory

>> No.11145810

>>11145767
No. That was just giving examples that there are somewhere in the world people like that, trying to tell that guy that being happy is a easier way out. That hardcore suffering is meaningless. The universe wont award you for suffering. Newton wouldn't be Newton if he spent his life suffering for others.

>> No.11145820

>>11145798
Honestly that guy's strawman or whatever, saying that life is suffering and unavoidable, is very Buddhist. If only he wasn't retarded, he could provide an actual argument.

>> No.11145826

>>11145463
>embrace suffering, simply out of loyalty to others that suffer
I'm not intelligent enough to do this, so I'll be happy instead

>> No.11145831

>>11145810
>The universe wont award you for suffering

I want the universe to punish me though, why would I choose suffering if I wanted an award, or an easy way out
If you say suffering is meaningless, what isn't? Scientific discovery, as you brought up Newton? Why would that hold any meaning, I find suffering much more meaningful and real

>> No.11145849

>>11145820
What would be an actual argument though? Jesus?

>> No.11145852

>>11145831
>If you say suffering is meaningless, what isn't?
>I find suffering much more meaningful and real
There we go, that is the problem.

>> No.11145879

>>11145849
Buddha

>> No.11145881

>>11145879
only a man

>> No.11145891

>>11145732

I am very sorry for your loss, and thank you for your advice.

But what if someone you loved changes and really hurts you? It feels as if you have lost someone and it has been replaced with a clone which looks exactly like him/her but it's not - it acts differently, it remembers nothing.
How do I keep loving someone who is not himself or herself anymore? Or what do I love in that case? The memory of them?

>> No.11145902

>>11145881
He didn't have a spot of blood on him when he was born, how did he do that if he was just a man?

>> No.11145912

>>11145902
by being wholly covered in it

>> No.11145931

>>11145912
Well, what about the umbrella, and that his first words were spoken right after being born and walking around?

>> No.11146031

>>11145392
Would you rather spend your time writing before killing yourself in your 40's, or stacking shelves?

>> No.11146038

>>11145468
It is a rather stupid quote. It only makes sense if you believe one option is better than the other - and if you believe that, you should vote for the person you believe has good policies or better policies than the other person.

A person who doesn't vote doesn't believe either option is better, so you're actually quadrupling your vote, if anything.