/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11139920]

How soon before Chomsky disavows Venezuela as not actually socialist.

[Ricebot !05nYLrwuNY No.11139935]

>>11139920
Holy shit. Is that Maduro or Chavez, I don't really remember.

[Anonymous No.11139946]

>>11139920
It's not. It's Social Democrat. Socialism is Cuba and Rojava.

[Anonymous No.11140189]

>>11139920
When it becomes undeniable that whatever system which was attempted was a horrible failure.
Quickly it will be denounced as "state capitalism", or something similar.

[Anonymous No.11140239]

>>11140189
Communism is stateless
Socialism is a transitionary period to communism during which the state should wither and die
A state that has siezed the means of production for itself and devolved into authoritarianism is neither communist nor socialist
This is not so fucking hard to understand. Why can't you people make actual critiques instead of relying on literal memes to argue?

[Anonymous No.11140261]

>>11140239
>A system in which the state takes the most active part is redistributing the wealth is a transitionary period during which the state should wither and die

[Anonymous No.11140270]

>>11140239
>A state that has siezed the means of production for itself and devolved into authoritarianism is neither communist nor socialist
LOL. It hasn't even done that. 70% of the nation is privatized. FDR era US has a lower privatization rate.

[Anonymous No.11140280]

>>11140239
>communism and socialism aren't authoritarian
I LOVE giving my shit up for free with no force

[Anonymous No.11140281]

>>11140261
Yes, the socialist state exists purely as a vehicle to smooth the transition between the former capitalist state and the new stateless society. You can argue that that idea is fucking retarded, or that it will inevitably devolve into state capitalism if you want, but this
>lol once it fails it's not socialism anymore :^)
meme is fucking ridiculous.

Oh, and Chomsky is still a moron btw.

[Anonymous No.11140290]

>>11140280
Again anon, you don't understand what a communist society would be. You should criticize ideas honestly, which means you should understand them first.

[Anonymous No.11140295]

>>11140239
>Socialism is a transitionary period to communism during which the state should wither and die
truly
sweden shall succeed

[Anonymous No.11140310]

>>11140280
Rich people's. You probably don't want anything the proletariat would want.

[Anonymous No.11140311]

Communism is a political religion. Discussing with communists is like discussing the divinity of the quran with a muslim

[Anonymous No.11140342]

>>11139920
It's Socialist it's just run like shit.

[Anonymous No.11140352]

Chavez literally did notting wrong [except getting poisoned by the CIA]

[Anonymous No.11140354]

>>11140311
And as we all know, religion is a holistic bad unless it's noncommittal Catholicism practiced by 25-year-olds on a sockpuppet forum who realized they didn't network enough in college and can't find purpose.

[Anonymous No.11140356]

>>11140310
Yeah I'm rich though because I've worked my whole life so fuck off

[Anonymous No.11140361]

this is the book board you retarded faggot

[Anonymous No.11140370]

Communism is POINTLESS. There's NO point even discussing it because we are NOT going to escape from capitalism. Pandora's box has been OPENED. It's going to be like this FOREVER.

[Anonymous No.11140374]

>>11140290
I completely understand what a communist society would be, I'm not a blind idealist to ridiculous social theories that aren't logical
Perhaps you should read communist literature instead of LARPing online

[Anonymous No.11140380]

Just accelerate faggots

[Anonymous No.11140409]

>>11140370
>capitalism was invented

[Anonymous No.11140441]

>>11140409
It REALLY doesn't matter. There is NO escaping from it.

[Anonymous No.11140474]

>>11140441
you can through genocide of alpha males and breeding of submissive docile cucks, and feminine women
like you do animals, domestication
will kill all competitiveness and any desire of advancement

[Anonymous No.11140483]

>>11140295
We don't even have proper socdems anymore.

[Anonymous No.11140487]

>>11140483
if the goal is to collapse the state
they're doing great leaps

[Anonymous No.11140495]

>>11140474
That hypothetical future you propose is still conducive with capitalism. If it's even slightly conducive with capitalism; capitalism WILL prevail. There is NO escape from it.

[Anonymous No.11140835]

>>11140495
capitalism is the natural behavior of humans and almost all mammals (or rather almost all amniotes)
perhaps you're right as much as mankind can never not-be-capitalistic, cause if we "stopped", by devolving, we would no longer be human (except in form)

[Anonymous No.11140856]

>>11139935
Chavez

[Anonymous No.11140865]

>>11139920
I thought Chomsky was an anarcho-syndicalists and merely shows solidarity with states that are oppressed by the US/UN's economic and military hegemony, which forces weaker nations to fail on purpose as a pretense for doing intervention and laying claim to natural resources?

[Anonymous No.11140886]

>>11140865
Is that mumbai or somewhere else in India? That shit is always startling to me especially since i know some rich Indians. They basically have slaves there in their house staff, some of the stories I've heard are crazy.

[Anonymous No.11140889]

Holy shit again with this. Venezuela uses the same economic model of scandinavia, even less nationalized actually. Venezuela is not socialist, saying that Venezuela is socialist doesn't make a good argument against socialism neither because it would make scandinavia socialist. And scandinavia has the highest standards of living in the world.
I will defend north korea, stalin and whatever so i'm not using the "not true Scotsman" argument here.

Keynesian economics=/=socialism.
I thought /lit/ was at least slightly smarter than this. I don't want a marxist board, but at least if you have to attack it know what the fuck you are talking about.

[Anonymous No.11140901]

>>11140835
>capitalism is the natural behavior of humans and almost all mammals (or rather almost all amniotes)
>perhaps you're right as much as mankind can never not-be-capitalistic, cause if we "stopped", by devolving, we would no longer be human (except in form)
100% ideology concentrate

[Anonymous No.11140908]

>>11140889
Well the difference is, Chavez' party is openly socialist(very few socdem parties in Scandinavia are anymore), and they have controlled the country for years, and still managed to just produce a corrupt version of Scandinavia.

I mean, even if it's not a good idea to use Venezuela as an argument against the idea of socialism itself, it's surely a good argument against human beings trying to put socialism into practice.

If someone with one of the largest oil reserves in the world can't do it, who can?

[Anonymous No.11140921]

>>11139920
>hmm, where am I going to post this politics thread?
>/lit/ - Literature
Delete yourself retard

[Anonymous No.11140923]

>>11140886
Brazil

[Anonymous No.11140971]

>>11140908
>Well the difference is, Chavez' party is openly socialist
This straight up america propaganda. The always defined themself as Socialism of the 21st century, which is basically socdem with reformist goals. Which is a bastardization of marx. I supported Chavez and support now Maduro not because they are socialist but because anti imperialism.
>If someone with one of the largest oil reserves in the world can't do it, who can?
No country in history of the world switched to socialism and had lower quality of life, gdp ecc. Than before. No country. You can make an argument against authoritarianism, civil freedom, consumer goods But not economical, it's been proven through out history that socialism brought massive economic miracles while also providing equality and literacy, education, Healthcare ecc.
I personally don't think Chavez aspired to ever make Venezuela socialist he tried the peaceful and pussy way and now Venezuela sucks. On the contrary when it's applied with balls everywhere else it always works.

[Anonymous No.11140979]

>>11140310
But I am rich.
Keep your claws off of my stuff, bum

[Anonymous No.11141002]

>>11140352
This
When even the mother fucking Economist aknowledges it's because of the oil markets you have to be a special kind of ignorant to just spam
> Hurr socialism bad evil kill kill never works memes
Especially when the country is LITERALLY ADJACENT to Bolivia, a socialist country that's been doing very well for itself. Im sure the reactionary media hivemind will suddenly find out that Bolivia exists once they suffer a depression and the corporate stooge industry has a new punching bag though. Y'all are the real disciplined intellectuals

[Anonymous No.11141005]

>>11140979
Stop funding your extravagance with parasitism and I wouldn't have to touch it, tovarische.

[Anonymous No.11141006]

>>11141005
lmao at the roleplaying commies do
I inherited the money and I will live off of it!

[Anonymous No.11141012]

>>11140352
He did not invest the oil money properly and when America crashed the market his whole country suffered

[Anonymous No.11141015]

>>11141006
>Trust fund babby thinks he has any room to mock others
Disgusting

[Anonymous No.11141018]

>>11141015
Sorry your dad was a bum

[Anonymous No.11141021]

>>11139920
>my ideology was all along my enemy's ideology as soon as it goes bad
boy, it must be easy to live life as a leftist

[Anonymous No.11141041]

>>11140374
>Gets online to repeat 'tough' sounding stuff he's heard his dad say

[Anonymous No.11141045]

>>11141021
>don't think don't read don't listen don't do anything that could cause information to enter the soggy little sponge between your ears except numbly repeat the same memetic sentences created in a US government think tank 60 years ago
boy, it must be easy to live life as a rightwinger

[Anonymous No.11141049]

>>11140239
>something that has never happened and never will happen isn’t REALLY my ideology because my ideology tells me so
You’re fucking spook’d m8.

[Anonymous No.11141061]

>>11139920
when they collapse completely. a country practices true socialism if and only if it is successful. since no socialist countries are ever successful in the long run, we conclude that True Socialism cannot exist.

[Anonymous No.11141064]

>>11141045
>if you’re not a communist you’re a right winger

[Anonymous No.11141068]

>>11141064
reminder that The Left IS the political spectrum

[Anonymous No.11141079]

>>11140239
>Read the manifesto and thinks he knows everything
lol there's a difference between Communism and muh utopia communism. Maybe you should study actual Communist societies and how they work.