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/lit/ - Literature

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11135529 No.11135529 [Reply] [Original]

>Spirit is the existent truth of matter - the truth that matter itself has no truth.

W-what did he mean by this?

>> No.11135557

That a thing's purpose is more important than it's matter content.

A hammer has a spirit because it is used as a hammer; nobody cares about the fact that hammers are made of carbon and iron atoms.

>> No.11135582

>>11135557
Can you just shut up if you obviously have no clue what you are talking about?

>> No.11135594
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11135594

>>11135582
Or maybe you should stop making threads on /lit/ if you don't like the answer you faggot.

>> No.11135614

>>11135529
because there's no quantity without quality, or rather, quantity is a quality. If science were honest with itself it would recognize that the fundamental category it uses to describe the world isn't matter but relation.

>> No.11135621

>>11135614
>Science has one praxis
>Implying different fields like psychology and physics are even comparable
>Implying reductionism describes relation
Snap your neck you fucking tard

>> No.11135632

>>11135582
He's right tho

>> No.11135638

If you want an actual answer you should probably provide some context, OP.

>> No.11135667
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11135667

>>11135621
The scientific consensus is that there are no spiritual qualities to being, or if they are they can't be measured and you just need to believe in them, though there are obviously some exceptions to this, but more importantly Hegel's argument against having quantity as the fundamental quality of anything is exactly what I said it is. Get off my board.

>> No.11135668

>>11135638
it means spirit is matter's ideality: spirit is matter's self-relating, its knowledge of itself as matter. the only necessity is contingency. (Substance is Subject)

>>11135557 this has a nice heideggerian vibe and hits on some of Hegel's bits about Spirit being a bone (reductionism shifts the goalposts, etc.)

>> No.11135695

>>11135667
>Implying mereorogical nihilism isn't literally true
Also scientific hard facts don't necessarily have to have ontological value read something more recent please

>> No.11135711

>>11135667
What's the fundamental quality of math?

>> No.11135748

>>11135711
I don't remember what exactly Hegel has to say about maths, but I think it would have to be unity. Usually you would speak about quantity in relation to units which are distinguishable based on their characteristics, but in mathematics you make formal statements about how relations work regardless of what those qualities are. The important thing is that Hegel argues that even if qualities emerge out of a quantity that quantity is itself only a quantity of a given quality, in this case of 'unities' that are distinguished against each other.

>> No.11135793

>>11135614
> If science were honest with itself it would recognize that the fundamental category it uses to describe the world isn't matter but relation
Hahahahaha, I agree lol

>> No.11136155

>>11135529
It's an extreme take on something more tame: matter is just a moment of mind. In your daily experience your material being is subsumed under your active purpose, and with increased tech it might be further idealized (made momentary) by our growing power to determine our bodies as we see fit for our purposes.

In short, matter has no truth because for us it is not and never will be our truth, our ultimate purpose. Mind is the truth of matter because it is the purpose of matter whenever mind exists, for your entire body's matters are where and as they are by virtue of higher principles of being: soul and mind.

>> No.11136280

>>11136155
But he's also saying Spirit is the process by we realize there is no such thing as a conventional notion of spirit (or, a final, teleological Truth)

>> No.11136349

>>11135748
But the only characteristic of a unit that distinguishes it from other units such that it can be related to them is its quantity. The idea of a unity in math only makes sense through the idea of quantity

>> No.11136413

>>11136280
No he's not. *Read* some Hegel and quit taking your interpretations from incompetent readers. Hegel is not anti-essentialist, nor is he a skeptic.

>> No.11136423

>>11136413
No, he pretty clearly says truth is processual and not substantial

>> No.11136445

What do you think substance is, precisely? "Stuff"? Substance is what endures, what is contentful, what is sustaining.

Guess what the "process" (concept) is? Guess what an essence is?

>> No.11136449

he was just in awe of that gnosis lad

>> No.11136455

>>11136445
Yeah, I get it, change itself is changeless, that's my point, the final Truth is there no final Truth, the final Truth is just this constant positing of retroactively grounded (momentary) final Truths

>> No.11136456

>>11135529
Hegelian monism is a weird thing, but put very simply: spirit is an organization of matter capable of self knowing.
>>11135668
Somewhat this.
>>11136155
What.

>> No.11136493

>>11136455
There are no final *finite* truths, but the Concept is an infinite truth, and we know what it is. The system is itself the final truth.

>> No.11136503

>>11136493
Right, what I've been saying, Spirit just is this process' consciousness of itself

>> No.11136513

>>11136503
That's not what you were saying if you are who I was responding to.

>> No.11136534

>>11136513
It's exactly what I'm saying here: >>11136280

>> No.11136547

>>11136349
I think in that case the distinction is 'an arbitrary quality', or the quality of quality itself. Without posing that you couldn't even distinguish quantities

>> No.11136566

>>11136534
That's not what you're saying. You were implying there is no final truth, whereas Hegel is clear that there is. Look, there is no shame in admitting you didn't phrase what you wanted to say in a way that it said what you thought it did. It happens.

>> No.11136574

>>11136566
No, I know exactly what I said, because Spirit as such is that Truth. I just didn't happen to call it Truth. I called it Spirit. We're splitting hairs.

>> No.11136588

>>11136574
Appearance in accordance to concept. In this case, you failed to make your propositional form fit the content of the concept. Language is a two way street, accept that what you think you say is not what others will take you to say. It's not hair splitting as much as you're trying to speak of straight hair in terms of dreds, and it only makes sense in your special interpretation of language and content.

>> No.11136665

>>11136547
But what's the "quality of quality"? Doesn't quality have to describe some kind of real predicate to even be called "quality"? I agree that it requires unity in the form of the quantity also, but math absent quantity as inconceivable as math without unity. This is why quantity would be a fundamental property, i.e. quality.