Law Career

[Anonymous No.11116268]

Is anyone here pursuing a career in law? How far along are you into it?
What was/is your undergrad major?
Do you enjoy it?
How much do you think has reading classics helped you in your studies?

[Anonymous No.11116326]

>>11116268
Yes
Near the end
None/Continental Europe
No
Zero, if anything it hurts

[Anonymous No.11116336]

>>11116326
why dont you like it? And what major would you have done instead. Also, how could reading hurt?

[Anonymous No.11116456]

>>11116336
It's tedious, it is unsatisfying in the same way that working with your hands is satisfying, it's random and teleological instead of systematic, it's not fulfilling or appealing to anything human like art, purpose, truth and for the work and time you put in, it doesn't pay well enough. Adding to that, most career options will either leave you with no time for your real life or force you to work with people who will make you want to kill yourself.

There are a bunch of nature, business and literature related ones that I'd consider better options.

It hurts because it will make you want to write well stylistically but that's not wanted and only costs you time; and time is 80% of what the major is about. It also hurts because it teaches you some idealistic thought patterns about crime and punishment and big emotions ruling the world when in reality, you only deal with cockroaches acting on cockroach instincts and an inefficient public system that is neither able nor willing to tackle that situation. It also teaches you to be creative or think in associations, both of which (with exceptions) hurt more than they help.

Best way to prepare/best indicator whether you'll be good at it related to classics is how good you are at reading original Latin texts - applying the law is much like translating Latin.

Of course this all mainly applies to the German system - don't know where you're from.

[Anonymous No.11116594]

>>11116268
I was
I changed careers from law to teaching
Yes
It didn't

[Anonymous No.11116619]

>>11116594
If you enjoyed it why did you give it up?

[Anonymous No.11116648]

>>11116456
america, but this is very helpful. i'm conflicted on whether pursuing law or finance. I grew up around a lot of lawyers (some who are representing A-list celebrities and have done quite well for themselves.) And I know that If I do enter law I have good connections.

[Anonymous No.11116734]

>>11116619
Because new experience duh
Also I can have the same job whenever I want

[Anonymous No.11116844]

Yes.
Just finished 1st year of law school.
Business Administration.
Not particularly.
In school, no, I don't think so. Math or econ background would make a stronger exam writer.

[Anonymous No.11116858]

>>11116844
why don't you enjoy it?

[Anonymous No.11116928]

5 years in being a lawyer

history/philosophy

I guess. Parts of it. Really think it's the best job for me.

Reading anything is helpful because you'll be writing a lot and reading makes you a better writer and synthesizer of information. I guess reading fiction can give you insight into people's wacky preoccupations and irrationalities, which you'll be dealing with a lot.

However I agree witth most of what this guy says. >>11116456
A lot of lawyers don't make all that much money. I do OK, but not great. Reading/writing/ interpretation is really a small part of most lawyers' everday jobs. The clients who pay you and the law firms you are working for are interested in keeping or making money and power. They don't care about esoteric questions of law, and to the extent you can't give them a clear answer to their questions, their bitterness with the uncertanties of the legal system will be directed toward you.

[Anonymous No.11116991]

>>11116928

You don't sound like one t b q h

[Anonymous No.11117187]

>>11116928
was law school / the bar exam difficult for you

[Anonymous No.11117883]

I'm in my final year of a law and accounting double degree.
I enjoy parts of it, but things like trusts, peoperty and corporations are just tedious and not very exciting.
Not in the slightest.

[Anonymous No.11117903]

I just spent 2 hours having my boss teach me how to write a motion for attorneys fees. I just finished my second year of law school. One more to go I guess.

It’s fun, but more like a puzzle than literature. Do you like solving problems with words?

[Anonymous No.11117995]

>>11116456
It's a lot like the legal system here in Australia too.

I don't mind it too much since I enjoy the logical process of working through issues for my clients, but it's definitely not engaging on any intellectual level unless you work as an academic

[Anonymous No.11118294]

bump

[Anonymous No.11118332]

>>11116268
Yes, I graduated a couple of years ago. I specialized in International Law and work for the government. Now I am doing a Master's in International Relations.
None, South America.
Yes, very much.
Nothing at all. The practice of law has no place for the classics.

[Anonymous No.11118365]

I've majored in Law (in my country you study law in the undergraduate level) and I hate it with a passion. I've passed the bar but didn't even pay to get it or swear the oath. I'm trying to escape from it, actually. Reading the classics or any form of literature only hurts your studies.

[Anonymous No.11118374]

>>11116991
having worked with and around lawyers this post definitely sounded like it came from one. the part about people's preoccupations and irrationalities is true, a lot of what ive observed lawyers do is basically talk therapy. people come out of crisis situations and have deep anxiety about their position, they also bounce all their conspiracy theory ideas off lawyers. the part about no interest in esoteric questions of law is true too, few except abstract thinking legal nerds care about, i dunno, the limits of the establishment clause on public transport. also the part about bitterness and uncertainties. people want to direct their blame and anger at a person for the faults of a system to exorcise their pent up feelings. like being mad a cashier because store policy prevents you from getting a refund.

[Anonymous No.11118654]

>>11118332
You sound interesting.

[Anonymous No.11118688]

>>11116326
>reading classics has hurt your studies

The absolute state.

[Anonymous No.11118787]

>>11118654
Thanks. If you're interested in literary classics and law, I can tell you that one of my professors has a PhD in Literature, as well as a professional degree and postdoctoral studies in law. In fact, he teaches Ancient Greek literature, history of law in ancient times, as well as other subjects related to the law of armed conflicts. He excels in academia as someone who sucessfully combines knowledge in both fields. However, you can only do this sort of thing as an academic.

As for me, international law operates on a completely different logic from domestic law. I'm passionate about it. However, fields of practice are very limited. You may need to get into a government agency or an intergovernmental organization, unless you'd like to be an academic.

[Anonymous No.11118841]

>>11118787
No problem. What professor? I'm thinking about getting a PhD in addition to a JD myself.

[Anonymous No.11118855]

I am a lawyer.
I have been practicing for two years.
My undergraduate major was philosophy.
I do not enjoy it. All of the legal principles, theory, and history that you learn in law school, the stuff that makes the law fascinating, becomes irrelevant in practice. It is minutia. Putting out little fires. Tedium unto death.
It has only hurt me in the sense that I long to read more of them but no longer have the time.

[Anonymous No.11118895]

>>11118841
He has a course on International Law theory in the IR Master's program. Aside from his work as a teacher, he holds a full time position as a researcher at the university.

[Anonymous No.11118901]

>>11118895
Fascinating, but who is he?

[Anonymous No.11118973]

>>11118901
Here you go.

https://uba.academia.edu/EmilianoBuis

[Anonymous No.11119044]

>>11118973
Thanks, but I'm not sure why you linked that instead of his University page or something.

[Anonymous No.11119070]

>>11116268
Not a lawyer but many friends went to law school. They've all begun chainsmoking and no longer have time to hang out or do anything but work.

[Anonymous No.11119148]

Near the end, 4/5 years this June.
None (Scandinavia)
Sometimes.I like the the system of thinking. Studying/practising law a lot like >11117903 said; puzzle with words.
Not that much. You become a better writer, though. And I put literary referances and semi-famous quotes in my assignments whenever possible, but that's just for my own amusing.

I dream of breaking free from all of this and write full-time. Someday I will.

[Anonymous No.11120325]

>>11119148
Good luck anon

[Anonymous No.11120620]

>>11120325
Thank you

[Anonymous No.11120626]

>>11117995
Most of us follow the basis of Common Law, especially in Anglo nations

[Anonymous No.11120630]

>>11120626
i'll add im a Japanese lawyer

[Anonymous No.11120739]

>>11120620
You are welcome. Any plans towards your goal of writing?

[Anonymous No.11121118]

>>11120630
Then nani the fuck are you doing in Australia? You have to go back.

[Anonymous No.11121232]

Does CPA count?

[Anonymous No.11121425]

>>11121232
Does a CPA count as a Lawyer?

[Anonymous No.11121625]

>>11119148
I study law in Scandinavia, and I dream of starting a small business one day so I can have some passive income, so I can dedicate my time to reading and writing fiction and poetry. I hope your dream comes true, anon, as well as mine.

[Anonymous No.11121645]

>>11118688
Be sure to let me know how Virgil helped you cope when you are on academic probation after your first semester of law school my man.

[Anonymous No.11122054]

>>11121645
Kek

[Anonymous No.11122169]

>>11121645
Based

[Anonymous No.11123158]

>>11121625
What sort of small business? Sounds comfy though.

[Anonymous No.11123587]

bump

[Anonymous No.11123641]

>>11121625
Thanks, and godspeed, Anon. What type og business?

[Anonymous No.11123649]

I work as a lawyer since 2016.
None.
Not really.
No. People on here seem to have the tendency to romanticize the law as a somehow /lit/ career path which is, from my experience, as far removed from the truth as possible. During your studies reading any literature at all will hurt you and as a practicing lawyer you will barely have time to read. I read maybe 10 novels a year nowadays when I used to read 50 or so in my late teens.

[Anonymous No.11123677]

>>11123649
I have to add that I work for a rather small company and therefore am fortunate to not do extraordinarily long hours, usually not more than 60 a week and with almost always one day off. Otherwise I would probably hate my job, this way, while not enjoyable, it's at least endurable. Most friends of mine with whom I've studied have it much worse than me and work probably almost 100 hours a week with no day off

[Anonymous No.11124338]

bump

[Anonymous No.11124376]

>>11123649
I second this last part. I don't really understand what you guys expect it to impart

[Anonymous No.11124430]

I am, yes. I’m 2 years in. Have a vacation scheme and a few interviews coming up so I pray it goes well.

It’s a Law degree. I’m from the United Kingdom, so it works slightly different from America and so on from what I understand.

No. Boring, lifeless, and tedious. However, if you want to be employed, it is the best degree/career to go for if you aren’t STEM-savvy. In my opinion, anyway.

Not really. Reading political and philosophical works - yes, as law generally is underpinned by that, and that helps wonderfully for writing essays, because you can write B.S and get good marks with such references.

[Anonymous No.11124468]

>>11116268
I was a lawyer for four years. Then I quit to become a writer.
I never wanted to be a lawyer and I hated the job but I tought it would be important to get my internship and final exams done. I did those, and left. I find that lawyers are either incredibly boring or incredibly frustrated with their lives and careers, because it's one of those jobs you have to get married to be good at. If you can't do it, or don't want to do it, don't try being a lawyer.

Reading classics only helps in conversations with old, well-read clients. It's just a conversation piece.

[Anonymous No.11124475]

>>11119148
I've done it. Im yet to be published, but I've never been happier.

If you really want to do, begin preparing your spirit to do it, to break free.

[Anonymous No.11124494]

>>11123158
>>11123641
I'm still young, so the options are many, but thinking of some internet commerce, and maybe one day owning a few small shops and apartments. It will take many years to reach that goal, though.

[Anonymous No.11125805]

>>11124494
Not sure how you are going to break into e-commerce in this day and age but could luck to you. Start planning and make it detailed.

[Anonymous No.11125849]

I was preparing to go to Law school, but dropped it at the last minute. It's a grossly oversaturated field, and unless you're going to an absolute top-tier school or have the connections to land a position before you even graduate, it is simply not worth it here, especially when it hits you with so many thousands of dollars of debt.

[Anonymous No.11125984]

>>11124468
I’m a lawyer too, but just put in my two weeks to become a writer. How has the transition been? Do you have any tips?

[Anonymous No.11126031]

>>11124494

I sincerely hope you make it.

[Anonymous No.11126038]

>>11124475

I salute you, Anon. And thank you for the advice. Hope you get published soon!

[Anonymous No.11126266]

>>11125849
It's really not as saturated as it was previously. I'm seriously sick and tired of this top-tier meme though.

[Anonymous No.11126445]

>>11116268
Yes, I finished in 2016.
None (not anglo)
Meh sorta
The way all the other people replied to this question is what amazes me: YES it helps a ton reading classics. But let's clarify, by classics I mean academic/non-fictional classics such as philosophy and/or political theory.

Of course reading Virgil as someone previously pointed out wont help you other than being the occasional intellectual exercise.

But in this business argumentation is your best weapon, how do you even to plan to be able cross-examine witnesses if you do not understand the basics of dialectic?

The three tenets of philosophy: logic, epistemology and ethics will be your bread and water if you plan to be any good.

Now I wont lie to you, this is a nasty business there is a lot of douches who cant fathom their own stupidity and will project it into you, but that's just the way humankind is, it is not exclusive to this career and you will find them everywhere you go.

So yes, if you plan to make a law career at any serious public or private organization "knowledge" is the way to go.

[Anonymous No.11127222]

>>11126445
This

[Anonymous No.11128676]

bump

[Anonymous No.11129382]

>>11126445

If you define reading the classics as gaining "knowledge" from reading "academic/non-fictional classics" then of course you have a point. But the way I understood the question >>1116268, was how much has the classics help you in your studies, i.e. did you gain any upper hand in understanding the inner workings of the law, or did it make you perform any better at exams, and so on. And in my experience, no you don't. There's probably a correlation, but not causation. I know people who read nothing but curriculum and nails the exams, but haven't read anything but Harry Potter and Game of Thrones. And opposite, people who've read a lot, but writes convoluted and never gets an A.

If you (OP) want to move on to academia later on, then you might have gained something extra. And for the sake of your own education, reading philosophy and great works of fiction will (almost) never do you any harm.

I'm >>11119148 btw

[Anonymous No.11129386]

>>11129382

fucked up OP's number. >>11116268

[Anonymous No.11129431]

>>11116268

[Anonymous No.11129723]

I'm in my first year of law school. I chose it because it's one of the only domains where you can find a job and get money if you aren't good in STEM.
I'm probably talking way out of my ass here but i don't plan on becoming a lawyer, especially not in France. I'll try to get a corporate job to have a bit more time and mental energy to myself, i'm kinda scared because every thread about Law here is filled with people who absolutely hate it

[Anonymous No.11130663]

>>11129723
Sad but true.

[Anonymous No.11130667]

I failed six times in the test to get into Law School and now I just consider killing myself.

It was always so close.

[Anonymous No.11130722]

Yes, finished three years ago.
-
'Enjoy' would be an overstatement, it's pretty boring, but it pays well and I think most jobs are boring, anyway.
Not really. There was an optional Philosophy of Law lecture that literally ten out of I guess about 300 students attended, which was very interesting but didn't help me with my exams, let alone with my job. Other than that, I don't see how the classics would help you. I don't work in the US so there is no jury I'd have to impress with my rhetoric, so what >>11126445 wrote doesn't apply for me.

[Anonymous No.11130888]

Is anyone here pursuing a career in law? How far along are you into it?
>Just started in first semester
What was/is your undergrad major?
>Finance
Do you enjoy it?
>Yeah its great, but I haven't studied it long enough to get the full experience. Exams are coming up and its already incredibly overwhelming the volume of stuff I need to revise, read, and learn.
How much do you think has reading classics helped you in your studies?
>Tremendously. I took a year off after undergrad because I didn't know what I wanted to do. I spent a lot of time reading classics, and a little phil and psych. Part of my goal was to improve my writing skill and learn new ways of thinking.

[Anonymous No.11130966]

>>11129723
I never even considered law because every single person I met who did it was absolutely miserable

[Anonymous No.11130977]

>>11130888
Tell me a bit more about your year off after Undergrad? I'm sort of in a similar position for a number of reasons.

[Anonymous No.11131016]

>>11130977
Unironically a NEET for the entire year.

The only significant thing I did was go travelling across Europe for a month.

[Anonymous No.11131542]

>>11131016
So you're a trust fund kid or what? Absolutely disgusting... in an interesting sort of way.

[Anonymous No.11132717]

>>11130966
Shame

[Anonymous No.11132984]

>>11116268
just finishing up by first year exams now, did my undergraduate in Electrical Engineering, I'm enjoying it a lot actually, I think reading a lot in general over my life helped me, i wouldn't necessarily say classics specifically would help, mainly just anything covering complex topics where you have to actually weigh text in your head to discern meaning

[Anonymous No.11134606]

>>11132984
How did an EE undergraduate impact your law studies?

[Anonymous No.11135209]

Practicing about 5 years now
Political Science
It's fine, clients are almost always idiots, but it pays well
Not even slightly

[Anonymous No.11135407]

>>11116268
Yes, been practicing in biglaw for a few years.
Political Science.
Yes, on average, but there are ups and downs.
The benefit is de minimis.

[Anonymous No.11136221]

>>11135209
>>11135407
Tell me more.

[Anonymous No.11136382]

>>11134606
honestly i struggled a little bit coming in because all the exams rely on writing ability, which i really didnt get much development for compared to my non STEM peers, on the other hand the problem solving/critical thinking aspect seems to come to me a lot more naturally than other students, so overall good and bad

[Anonymous No.11138012]

>>11136221
Tell you more about what? Be specific.

[Anonymous No.11139386]

>>11138012
Just was more curious about various backgrounds. Hearing from people in practice makes me lean towards academics though.

[Anonymous No.11139433]

>>11131542
Nope, my family is actually poor as shit. I'm just a lazy shit who was depressed for most of the year. I didn't know what I wanted to do, among other things. I'm just lucky that I have generous parents.

I mean it was a really unproductive year, but I did learn a lot. I read a lot of books, and did some personal development stuff that has changed me for the better.

[Anonymous No.11141019]

>>11139433
Lucky

[Anonymous No.11142249]

Graduated law school in 2014

My undergrad was Chinese history. Didn't know enough Chinese to seriously continue with grad studies, so I went to law.

It's a job. Probably more intellectually stimulating than other jobs, but frankly, I think I would have been better off with a simplier job that has no debt associated with it. I left law school with around 150k in debt, but the salary has been in the 60 - 70 range, so it's still a few more years before everything is paid off.

More than reading I should have talked more and been more social. Clients are not as good as communicating as authors, yet they still expect you to understand them perfecting. They'll also get frustrated with you when it turns out the law isn't black and white like they imagine it is. Get use to talking in terms of risk.

[Anonymous No.11142473]

You know when you're playing Dungeons and Dragons and someone tries to do something questionable and then the group has to spend 45 minutes looking through the guide books for an answer to a niche question that won't have any significant impact on the campaign? That's law.

Imagine doing nothing but that for 80-100+ hours every week. Instead of discussing swords and sorceries (or anything remotely interesting), you are probably arguing about obscure details in an insurance policy. If you make a mistake, your entire career is in jeopardy.

Your colleagues are guaranteed to be stressed out wrecks who care a lot more about petty things than you ever thought was possible.

Perhaps the only positive I can think of is that non-lawyers will give you a retarded amount of deference and treat you with too much respect.

With several years of experience (and luck) you might be able to start your own practice in a niche area that you find interesting. This is when law reaches its true endgame. This is where you will find lawyers who are happy with themselves and what they do. This is a very small percentage of the field.

[Anonymous No.11142920]

>>11142473
Looks like someone is in a good mood today.

[Anonymous No.11142954]

>>11116336
>why don’t you like being a lawyer/law school

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA GOD HELP ME HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA FUCKING KEK

[Anonymous No.11143992]

>>11142954
Someone get this man some help please.

[Anonymous No.11144308]

>>11142249
Good luck. Grad school is still there as a possibility.