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/lit/ - Literature

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11070329 No.11070329 [Reply] [Original]

So I just finished Catcher in the Rye.
Its been the first book Ive read in a long time, I finished it and loved it. I looked up some analysis notes and peoples opinions and apparently it fucking takes place in a mental ward. What. The. Fuck.
I fucking hate that book now, how can I have fucking missed that, am I retarded or something? this is equiavalent to "it was all a dream" shit. Im not new to reading literature, so I can pick up on subtext. But I completely missed this, all that reading for absoloutely nothing, no message no plot no nice prose no nice characters. I fucking hate this book.
Is it just me?

>> No.11070338

You didn’t miss anything. You read it and loved it. Someone had a different interpretation, that’s fine, it doesn’t mean you’re wrong or you missed something. I hate the idea of literature and art in general as something you can miss the point of. If you got something out of it you didn’t miss the point.

>> No.11070348

>>11070329
I found this in a mental ward, actually. Didn't bother reading it because it felt like I could read something else.

>> No.11070351

>>11070338
It seems as though its a general consensus. Like everyone seem to agree and its like I missed out on a major thing/theme.
Thanks for the nice reply though, well said, I guess I did take something out of it.

>> No.11070352

>>11070329
Well Holden if I remember right is relating all this in a hospital ward for tuberculosis and is seeing a psychiatrist so it does take part in a ward to some extent.
But as for it all taking part in a ward I didn't recall that. Got a link to the reasoning.

>> No.11070358

>>11070329
>fucking takes place in a mental ward.
No it doesn't. That's just a retarded interpretation that someone made up.
>I fucking hate that book now
So because one idiot came up with a nonsensical interpretation of it you now hate it? Please tell me you're baiting.

>> No.11070375

>>11070358
No im not baiting. It just seems like a plausible and accepted idea that he is in a mental ward, and as someone who is just starting to read again Im not really in a place to argue otherwise.
It ruins the whole book for me because it means that all the characters and plot didnt actually take place, or were at least warped beyond recognition.

>> No.11070377

>>11070375
that kind of plot is the most retarded and overdone, most unoriginal shit anyone can ever do. especially dickish if it's a copout of a real ending

>> No.11070380

>>11070375
It's just him recalling the events as he talks to someone, that doesn't necessarily mean the shit never happened. It's pretty obvious from the narration, if I recall correctly, that Holden is talking to someone

>> No.11070384

>>11070329
It’s a straightforward book, don’t fall for retard gibberish

>> No.11070394

>>11070375
All you have to do is ignore the people who claim "DUDE IT'S ALL IN HIS HEAD LMAO!" Nothing in the book overtly indicates Holden's story is a total fabrication.

>> No.11070426

>>11070329

You're confusing it with The Tin Drum. Or the person who came up with this cockamamie theory is confusing it with The Tin Drum.

>> No.11070437

>>11070329
I remember something similar when I finished The Great Gatsby. Read an article online that said Nick Carraway is gay and I had no such feeling while reading the book. I just think they make a lot of this stuff up.

>> No.11070496

>>11070375
Yeah, it's like a recounting of a story - the distortion is actually there for a purpose to show the conflict going on his teenage mind. Besides, the "ebin all in his head xD" is retarded, because it reads like an autobiography.

>> No.11070515

John Green didn't tell me about a ward, what the fuck...

>> No.11070595

I was so fucking upset when I found out One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest took place in a mental ward that I wiped my ass with the pages and burned it. I fucking hate it now.

>> No.11070611

>>11070595
kek

>> No.11070615

>>11070329
>Just finished
Serious question, are you in highschool?

>> No.11070625

>>11070394
Nothing in Ferris Burller's Day Off overly indicate the entire story takes place in Cameron's head, yet the story is better if it does

>> No.11070651

It takes place in a hospital because Holden got tuberculosis, he's not in a mental ward.

>> No.11070674

I mean whether it was in a mental ward or not is irrelevant.
In either scenario the book still sucked fat hairy balls.
Big, sweaty, black, fat hairy balls.

>> No.11070687

Holden raped his sister and is afraid of being taken advantage of so it's obvious he has mental issues.

>> No.11071671

>>11070329
It's overrated drivel.

>> No.11071679

>>11070687
Their incest was consensual.

>> No.11071921

>>11070329
>>11070351

No. It's not like an "it was all a dream" thing. It was just that everything he talked about happened, but the reason he was telling us about it was because it was the lead-up to his breakdown. I think it was an excellent plot device and was kind of beautiful the way it played out.

You would have to read pretty closely in the first few pages to recognize that he's narrating something that happened a few months ago from the comfort of an institution. You did nothing wrong. You enjoyed the book. Everything will be okay. Don't ever tell anybody anything.

>> No.11072049

>>11070437
Not OP but I also read about the Gatsby protag being gay which also went over my head

But I don't know any other explanation for him suddenly being in his undies with that other dude at the party

>> No.11072166

>>11071921
>it was the lead-up to his breakdown
But I thought it ended with everything being okay??

>> No.11072178

>>11070687
>>11071679

There was literally no incest in the novel.

>>11072166

...in the sense that he was getting help. Everything that happened had happened and he wound up in an institution. Knowing this, and looking back on his reflection of his last fews days before Christmas, it explains things pretty well.

Everything is okay. Holden will make it. But he will never be the same. His ideals were crushed. His innocence is gone. He is an adult now. A lonely, post-war, cynical adult.

>> No.11072210

>>11070329
ITT: people who don't get it.
Holden is a character unaware of where he is heading mentally, which is pretty hard to write since most writers are so shit their characters are just puppets doing exactly what they are supposed to.
Holden expresses his desire to spare kids the pitfalls they are playing innocently around. He thinks he's aiming to do a good deed in this, but he (not Salinger) is unaware that the pitfalls he's seen, that he wants to save the little kids from, are part of growing up, indeed: life itself.
His direction of thought is headed towards murder,or at least an anorexic rejection of maturity, but isn't on any rails towards it because he lacks the resentment and nihilism of one of Burrough's teen rebels.
Salinger shows us how being in a healthy society has stopped Holden from becoming a rotten villain, given him the room to have doubts about life without having to reject all of being.
Remember, this was first written as a serial two years after Being and Nothingness and whether you liked it or not, you couldn't ignore existentialist thought at the time.
WWII made people look at life with a hard eye that lacked innocence. Salinger gave us a view of the human condition without preaching, a work that trusts the reader. I think that's why it's valuable.

>> No.11072238

OP is an emotionally, and especially MENTALLY, weak human being. OP sees one person on the internet interpret the same book as OP was reading differently, and now OP is outraged at him/herself for not seeing it the same way. Pathetic beta mentality. Grow up OP, you little fucking bitch. This type of shit is new, or seems to happen in the later millennial generations, makes me absolutely sick to my goddamn stomach. FUCK YOU OP.

>> No.11072250

>>11070437
Carraway certainly isn't gay but he might like fucking dudes. The last few paragraphs of chapter 2 are... vague, can be read a lot of different ways

>> No.11072254

>>11070375
Just remember you said this after you get a few more books under your belt. I guarantee you'll laugh over how much you've grown

>> No.11072331

>>11072238
Hey! Don't hate on your projection so transparently!
Reading critically isn't taught these days. You can ruin a book (or anything really) by trashing it in media, because the idea that something is worthy of being mediated just because it's mediated is very strong.

>> No.11072586

>>11072210
>headed towards murder
What?
>a healthy society had stopped Holden from becoming a rotten villain
No, no, no. If you try to see the secondary characters (his teachers, the mother in the train, his dates, the nuns, his older friend) through these glasses, then they're exactly the puppets like you talked about, one dimensional, fulfilling a role, in the sense of leading Holden to the next person, a better one, until he finds the one who can change his mind: Phoebe. If you ignore the flaws of these characters that Holden tells us about and see them as only good, wholesome people, then you'd be presuming Salinger somehow wrote about a utopian like society.

>> No.11072866

>>11070615
No, and its not even taught in secondary schools were I live at least.

>> No.11072880

>>11070496
That does make a lot of sense.
>>11071921
Thats what Ive come to the conclusion of, that it was told in a mental ward, but that the story didnt take place their.
>>11072166
>>11072178
I thought it still did. Holden might have had a tough break but he's kind of found a way around the whole crushing maturity shit, with Phoebe. Whilst also coming to terms with it.
>>11072210
Yeah this makes a lot of sense. The unawareness part rings pretty true.
>>11072254
I hope so.

>> No.11074426

>>11070329
The events Holden narrates take place in the diegesis (though he may lie/exaggerate sometimes). The only bearing the mental ward has on the story is that the psychiatrist is the person who he's narrating everything to. It shouldn't "ruin" the book for you; it should only give more meaning to a few key phrases.

>> No.11074945

people totally misunderstand this book
Caufield's story is his growing into buddha-hood and being enlightened by the end of it. He moves from his initial selfish, i-centered values to someone a bit more we-centered and empathetic
Salinger had a large interest in zen buddhism and the narrative is reflective of this.

>> No.11074950

>starts out in a forest

Man I've been to a mental ward. There are no nice walks through the fucking woods

>> No.11074968

>>11072049
thats the most kino scene, drunk in an elevator, then nude with a dude -- happens so seamlessly too

>> No.11074983

>>11072210
i think this whole hero/villain dichotomy is ALL IN YOUR HEAD M8

>> No.11075079

I'm shocked by how frequently Catcher in the Rye is misinterpreted. Are people incapable of differentiating between words, thoughts, and actions? Do they have no empathy?

Catcher in the Rye is very approachable as far as literary fiction goes, so when people fail to read this book I wonder how they manage to read anything.