/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11053882]

How can people defend the modern world?

[Anonymous No.11053889]

>>11053882
>>>/his/

[Anonymous No.11053902]

>>11053882
How can people defend the world?

[Anonymous No.11053911]

>>11053902
t. pseud too confused to go out in mass murder/suicide

[Anonymous No.11053918]

>>11053882
>mfw londonfrog finally did it. the incel rage finally took over.

[Anonymous No.11053921]

>>11053882
"the evil have no need of an advocate."

[Anonymous No.11053931]

>tfw you realise that you will witness the slow but painful disintergration of Western civilisation in your life time

[Anonymous No.11053938]

>>11053931
slow? it's anythnig but slow

[Anonymous No.11053944]

>>11053931
The current state of Western civilization is not one whose death you should mourn.

[Anonymous No.11053948]

Western women and degenerates are the only ones defending it by heart.

[Anonymous No.11053952]

does anybody else think they wouldn't mind a successful jihad across the western states

[Anonymous No.11053957]

>>11053931
it will speed up considerably soon (not that it's even slow now)

[Anonymous No.11053974]

/pol/ circlejerking is not literature

[Anonymous No.11053995]

>>11053918
Is he actually gone?

[Anonymous No.11054019]

>>11053974
just report the thread

[Anonymous No.11054023]

>>11053931
feels good man

[Anonymous No.11054025]

>>11054023
Yet a stage in the perfection of man

[Anonymous No.11054037]

>>11053974
i actually enjoyed when they did it to the persian vegan nutter
it was kinda cute

[Anonymous No.11054038]

>>11053995
does the fact that hes in london and this fag in toronto kind of tell u all u need to know about that theory? londonfrog probably just got banned for posting offtopic bullshit about the grody snacks he eats

[Anonymous No.11054046]

>>11053931
that would mean the disintegration of capitalism.

too good to be true.

[Anonymous No.11054047]

>>11054038
>he doesn't realize londonfrog was from london, ontario the whole time

[Anonymous No.11054065]

>>11054046
i lol'd

[Anonymous No.11054067]

Things are better than they ever were. What are you on about?

[Anonymous No.11054071]

>>11054067
how so?

[Anonymous No.11054078]

>>11054067
Yes the collapse of all meaning, social bonds and economic/social security has been great

[Anonymous No.11054083]

>>11054046
No, capitalism is what is disintegrating the West.

[Anonymous No.11054084]

>>11054067
name 1 (one) thing that is better than it ever was

[Anonymous No.11054085]

>>11054078
these didn't happen

[Anonymous No.11054088]

>>11054067

[Anonymous No.11054093]

>>11054067
>material abundance for the privileged few at the cost of enormous suffering everywhere is good

>>>Bill Gates' facebook page

[Anonymous No.11054095]

>>11054067
>thirty years ago, ussr exists
>now, no ussr
how is this better

[Anonymous No.11054096]

>>11054085
wow ok everything is great now thanks

[Anonymous No.11054100]

>>11054067
>Things are better than they ever were

[Anonymous No.11054102]

>>11054084
not him but:
>Manufactured industrial products
>Medicine/Surgery

[Anonymous No.11054108]

>>11054102
>Manufactured industrial products
Could be lived without
>Medicine/Surgery
Literally one valid contribution, but advanced medicine also gives rise to crippled elderly people being forced to live terminal tube-fed lives instead of dying gracefully in their middle years

[Anonymous No.11054110]

>>11053882
I dunno what you mean.

>the world we live in?
>the world that people have a problem with?
>wtf is this world? it makes no sense to us!

i've never seen this before in tv or lit.

[Anonymous No.11054114]

>>11054096
I didn't say things were great you dumb wank.

[Anonymous No.11054115]

>>11054083
when I think about western culture , 3 things comes to my mind, capitalism, consumerism, and individualism.

[Anonymous No.11054118]

>>11054108
You could literally make the philosophical argument, that if it could be proven every other aspect of life has not improved other than artifiicial longevity, then there is not any justification for the artificial longevity in the first place.

Lol.

[Anonymous No.11054120]

>>11054085
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBRqu0YOH14

[Anonymous No.11054130]

>>11054120
wow memes

[Anonymous No.11054132]

>>11054102
Enhanced manufactured industrial products only leads to technological domination of man, destruction of environment and enhanced misery. Overdeveloped medicine and surgery results in a dysgenic and dependent populace

[Anonymous No.11054138]

>>11053931
>>11053938
>>11053944
>>11053952
>>11053882

By guiding the state to mandate school curriculum that actually teaches kids to be aware and critical of how media and rhetoric work. By changing the importance of mental health in the minds of the public to that of physical health without placating religious zealots.
---
>tfw you realise that you will witness the slow but painful disintergration of Western civilisation in your life time

I remember when I use to believe this. The problems I found when I started to view Utopian and technoptomistics ideals, is that the foreseeable can't help but be linear in some movement towards what becomes either one end the other or an undetermined point. The future's sporadic shifts, those potentials from two earlier potentials creating an unknown don't point for us anywhere but where we point them.

A creation is destruction at a place and time of the beginning, a destruction is a creation at a place and time of the beginning. The value is warranted when given an end, like life. Have you people never enjoyed a bittersweet moment, have you never laughed at the uselessness of your bitterness.

>mfw I read The Trouble With Being Born on the toilette.
>I fart and the terroir is of strength and resilience and a desire for autonomy.
>I breathe it deeply through my nose.
>I am transported to myself, to my region
>there is no frog here, only a chuckle

[Anonymous No.11054142]

>>11054085
>the collapse of all meaning, social bonds and economic/social security didnt happen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlTD1TzTgJU

[Anonymous No.11054146]

>>11053931
People have done crazy things since time immemorial. Now it's just possible for anything anyone does that's crazy to be heard anywhere instantly.

Of course in the medieval ages anyone who went on a rampage killing was restricted to melee weapons which everybody had on them, so the damage was mitigated. The event remained a local affair and the perpetrator would be tried, tortured and executed without anyone else ever knowing about it beyond the local jurisdiction.

[Anonymous No.11054148]

You can't.

[Anonymous No.11054150]

>>11054138
As a fan of both Cioran and Rebecca Solnit, I concur with this post.

[Anonymous No.11054151]

>>11054115
Western culture was dead by 1914 and buried by 1945 at most. You have never experienced anything but globalized consumer hell

[Anonymous No.11054154]

>>11054142
great, more memes

[Anonymous No.11054155]

>>11054108
>>11054118
>>11054132
The point is you cannot name one thing in isolation. Any "fact" is propaganda.

[Anonymous No.11054156]

>>11054155
>Any "fact" is propaganda
Care to expand on this ridiculous idea?

[Anonymous No.11054158]

>>11054146
>rampage killing has always existed
>it is therefore an uncaused constant

[Anonymous No.11054163]

>>11054151
>before 1914

So western culture was about colonization ?

[Anonymous No.11054164]

>>11054146
This. It's pure rosy retrospection to imagine things are getting 'worse' in the modern age. Absolutely every metric of education, violence, poverty, hunger, war, etc. has improved.

It's really noticeable if you go around and read the native-language wikipedia pages for continental European cities. 9/11-tier catastrophes happened to them so often it was barely notable.

[Anonymous No.11054165]

>>11054158
it's part and parcel, you could say

[Anonymous No.11054170]

>>11054163
he's just buttblasted that all the degenerate aristocratic faggots in europe got washed away by the war

[Anonymous No.11054173]

>>11054102
>Manufactured industrial products
Rapid expansion of civilization and encroachment on nature until there is nothing left.
>Medicine/Surgery
Keeps all the weaker people alive, which leads to dysgenic breeding.

[Anonymous No.11054174]

>>11053882
Some of us don't

[Anonymous No.11054176]

>>11054164
>education good
>violence bad
>poverty bad
>hunger bad
>war bad
nice try

[Anonymous No.11054178]

>>11053882
>You could not be born at a better period than the present, when we have lost everything.

>Our period has destroyed the interior hierarchy. How should it allow the social hierarchy, which is only a clumsy image of it, to go on existing?

>After the collapse of our civilization there must be one of two things: either the whole of it will perish like the ancient civilizations, or it will adapt itself to a decentralized world. It rests with us, not to break up the centralization (for it automatically goes on increasing like a snowball until the catastrophe comes), but to prepare for the future.

[Anonymous No.11054182]

>>11054156
Read the book. I wasn't dismissing factuality.
Basically, the idea is that modern society is flooded with highly technical but fragmented information and it becomes impossible for someone who isn't a siloed technician to make sense of them and form a wholistic worldview. This leads to neurosis among other things.

[Anonymous No.11054184]

>>11054164
plus ever notice the newspapers always have a caveat on the latest worst mass shooting "in modern history" which admits that back in the day there were all kinds of major slaughters, i think the really worst one was like 150+ people, also there was so much racial violence back then, dylan roof and the jewish guy who ran over heath hayer (how come his name isnt a household name like most hate criminals, i wonder...) are like every other week events in the last century

[Anonymous No.11054188]

>>11054174
>fascist delusions are the solution to modern problems

Go back to pol ffs

[Anonymous No.11054194]

>>11054163
i was thinking of muh symbolic impact of the trenches demolishing any remaining illusion of Kultur

[Anonymous No.11054210]

>>11054182
I doubt the book's argument is this simplistic tbqh.

[Anonymous No.11054214]

>>11054184
>>11054164
>>11054146
The problem is not so much that this kind of thing happens, but that we maintain a rosy view of the present despite it. Anyone that feels that their good is tied up with the good others will not go on a spree killing, and its precisely those ties that have disappeared. Not all senseless violence is the same. To just write it away as "crazy people be crazy" is ignoring that these things have causes.

[Anonymous No.11054221]

>>11053931
>mfw

[Anonymous No.11054223]

>>11054188
>anyone I don't like is /pol/
The echo chamber adepts pointing their fingers at others is getting old

[Anonymous No.11054226]

>>11054210
It’s not. I was just pulling out one small part related to the “name one thing that has/hasn’t improved.”

[Anonymous No.11054234]

Where did it all go wrong? I'm going to say the "enlightenment"

[Anonymous No.11054235]

>>11054226
Ok, what do you think hasn't improved then?

[Anonymous No.11054236]

why didnt he just fap? i think these nofap assholes are dangerous cuz there is plenty of amazing porn freely available to all but instead of letting autists and nerds enjoy wanking in a porn utopia these assholes try to bring back fap shame, nofaps must be crypto christians or something, they are full of shit, i hope they get blamed

[Anonymous No.11054237]

>>11054223
Not even. I know this kind of fascist bullshit rhetoric well. Evola has nothing of value to offer to anyone.

[Anonymous No.11054242]

>>11054237
evola is some of the dumbest shit its embarrassing that people even post that crap on here

[Anonymous No.11054245]

>>11054234

[Anonymous No.11054248]

>>11054245
this

[Anonymous No.11054250]

>>11054226
Or, better yet, why does Ellul think you can't possibly single one thing out?

[Anonymous No.11054257]

[Anonymous No.11054260]

>>11053931
eggcellent

[Anonymous No.11054269]

>>11054235
It’s clear that many things have come with a cost, even if that cost is delayed.
And for others there are trade-offs.
I’m not sure what you are aiming for.

[Anonymous No.11054270]

>>11054242
All "traditionalists" are the same. I'm actually doing my thesis right now on interwar fascism in Australia. Take this bullshit from their leader, Eric Campbell's manifesto:

>[I]t is not only politically that we need a spring cleaning; rather, it might be argued that our political degeneracy is but the result of other social weaknesses, which in turn are the outcome of individual slackness. Be that as it may, there can be but little doubt that, having been so firmly established, our present institutions, while they are allowed to exist, destroy any hope of regeneration.
>Unless there is a traditionally responsible upper class, then, given a system whereby the public can give reasonable articulation to their ideas, the standard of a governing body can only be equal to that of the people as a whole.
>Wise policies are futile, plans so much waste paper, unless the morale of the people is worthy of them. Inspired leadership is always essential, but its inspiration is of no avail unless it is vital enough to kindle a ready and zealous response in the hearts of the citizens. A flock of sheep cannot be led; it must be driven. The structure of the Corporate State, to which I refer in some detail, is designed to create civil morale and political understanding by allowing the individual to express himself in matters of government in a measure harmonious to his national importance. But structure in itself can do very little. Similarly with policies and plans—these, in democratic forms of government, depend on the co-operation and honesty of purpose of the people. In an autocracy, popular support can be compelled.

They spout the same old bullshit. It's just that Evola and Guenon and so on are perhaps a bit more mysterious in how they do it.

[Anonymous No.11054271]

>>11054248
catholic church apologists have to be stopped

[Anonymous No.11054277]

>>11054269
I'm just trying to understand why you made a post dismissing factuality to then say you didn't because Ellul.

[Anonymous No.11054287]

Because they're trained to only exert critical thought in very specific directions.

[Anonymous No.11054288]

Microwaves are literally worse than ten atom bombs.

And I'm not talking about radiation.

It opens the doors for food that is more processed, with much more salt, with more room for dishonesty about its content, it makes us expend a whole lot more energy with freezers, it produces an obscene ammount of plastic, it corrupts family recipes and bonding over cooking, renders farming obsolete to anyone but corporations, it excuses worker right's violations because it shortens the perceived ammount of time it takes to cook a meal and spend your "free time". It's impossible to account the ammount of turtles that died stuck in frozen lasagna plastic bags, or how much time depressed young adults have lost looking at their walls while being comforted by the possibility of simply heating up something in the microwave to survive, how many heart attacks it has directly or indirectly caused and how much energy and money some people spent on fitness and health to escape the increased risk of health problems. At most we blame the food companies and watch them subtly reform themselves to profit over misery in some slightly more disguised way, but no one even mentions the microwave.

That is because we all love our microwaves. They are handy, we see how it saves our time and our own personal effort to cook a meal so that we can focus on something else which we deem more important, not often realizing that is an incredible advertising opportunity to have this void and be told what should be important to us. It spare us all, individually, of a burden in relation to our own sustainance right there and then, we let it and the food companies to take care of that. However, collectively, it burdens us all with a much bigger weight, that, because it weights on us all equally, will stress the weak portions of our society to a much worse degree than the rest.

The microwave is representative of a lot of things that makes our lives easier, in a sense more productive, that it is relatively cheap and accessible, integral part of everyday life to most of us, completely out of the range of any criticism because its effects are so indirect and untangible, that no one would blame it for anything, no one would vote against it. The microwave is one, of many other things that are just as irrelevant, that indirectly and subtly ruins the world by giving us what is, in the moment, the best of all possible worlds, the fast and effortless nutrition that we expect from the food we eat and from the ideas we cultivate.

[Anonymous No.11054289]

>>11054214
Perhaps that's true. But historically and into the present day it's uncommon for anyone to feel any sympathy or concern for anyone outside their identity group. For it to be otherwise is a sign of modern progress. There's a passage of John Locke's where he remarks about a hypothetical earthquake happening in China in which a million people are killed, and how it would be perfectly normal for people on his side of the world to go about their day as if nothing happened.

For it to be otherwise than this is a product of modern advancements in communication and media.

And if what you're saying is true, what explains that atomized mentality? In most of these cases there are warning signs, but rarely is anything done to prevent them.

(I would speculate is that the cause is that people with very loose ties have been reduced by neoliberalism to client-based transactions instead of being connected by religion or other group-cohering sentiments, but even then I feel like I'm grasping at straws.)

[Anonymous No.11054290]

>>11054237
Perhaps you would like to begin by pointing out which of the criticisms he made about modernity were wrong?

[Anonymous No.11054293]

>>11053882
>have the highest standard of living in history
>"how can people live like this?"

[Anonymous No.11054297]

>>11054248
>t. pedo apologist

[Anonymous No.11054300]

>>11054277
I clearly put it in quotes desu. I’m not as intelligent or erudite as him but I was attempting to point how flooded with information modern man is. These are often polemicized factoids. “Unemployment is at 4.1%”.
Modern man finds himself in a mass yet increasing ostracized society without “traditional” anchors but it’s easy to accept factoids, especially if they conform/come from your side. The factoids are not easily interpreted unless you are technically minded, but many will still use them to defend policy/ideology.
I posted loosely I apologize.

[Anonymous No.11054301]

>>11054289
>But historically and into the present day it's uncommon for anyone to feel any sympathy or concern for anyone outside their identity group.
pure bullshit

[Anonymous No.11054308]

>>11054289
This hasn't been true since television became common in the west. Since then the suffering of outgroup individuals has been both in our homes an a part of our lives.

[Anonymous No.11054309]

>>11054297
pedos are a social construct

[Anonymous No.11054311]

>>11054300
>I was attempting to point how flooded with information modern man is
I accept your apology. Your post clearly didn't mention any of this, try not to be so disingenuous next time.

[Anonymous No.11054318]

>>11054288
uhhh you dont get to make thought-out, intelligent posts on this website

[Anonymous No.11054323]

>>11054047
no wonder he hated his life then. Jesus christ I can't think of a more boring place to live

[Anonymous No.11054344]

>>11054318
That wasn't intelligent. You can still make frozen food on the oven, it just takes a bit longer.

[Anonymous No.11054345]

>>11054178
Ok. So we've got a hundred years for the masses to view the 1% in a manner that is separate from themselves and is acceptable, but the catch is that the 1% need to accept this view as well. The world is now in a state of culture that sees itself having triumphed over older aristocratic states of culture, stately, obese really, gentile merchants, but the compromise has been to allow the richest to become invisible, (or to be media savvy) to have the privilege of privacy (the luxury of marketable personality). Yet the rest of us out here in the real world need to know them and so both stories are concocted and mass public relations campaigns take place to mediate the experience, (and we learn and battle what we learn, and we gloss over, we internalise, we become oblivious to, we misconstrue). That mediated view used to pass for a greater intimacy, as it was to view the leaders of your country or to hear them speak at fireside chats. People have learned to see real power and seek an agreement with those so as to acknowledge and delight in their works as though they were apart of their identity. It is as true for one type of government or another. People project onto godheads and privilege certain understandings because of that. That science isn't comfortable mapping that onto objects or even really themselves, is sad. Bad media personalities, or have the memes crossed and now the tippers have become the flippers, fins, teeth of a seal up north biting at a wound from a gun. The point being, I like my military leaders to know existential psychology, my teachers to know music, and my lifecoaches to be intrepid; I therefore recommend my friend.

[Anonymous No.11054348]

>>11054289
>For it to be otherwise than this is a product of modern advancements in communication and media.
To an extent. The anti-war movement in the Vietnam War era was definitely a result of advancements in media. But there's a point where it becomes too much and we just get oversaturated with tragedy to the point where it's difficult to care. Like that period a few years ago when there were terrorist attacks in Europe almost weekly. It was hard to give a shit, even after seeing bloodied corpses on the news.

>I would speculate is that the cause is that people with very loose ties have been reduced by neoliberalism to client-based transactions instead of being connected by religion or other group-cohering sentiments, but even then I feel like I'm grasping at straws
More or less my view as well. A person that hates the world and wants to die is a scary thing, and we've produce people like that like crazy.

[Anonymous No.11054355]

>>11054344
they could also blow hiroshima with dynamite, it just takes a bit longer

[Anonymous No.11054358]

>>11054345
what is this post trying to say

[Anonymous No.11054361]

>>11054236
Stating a black or white answer is just the same as stating a black or white cause. This is how human's think before they've considered other possibilities.

[Anonymous No.11054364]

>>11054288
wow you're actually quite smart, would you mind making a thread about some of your passing thoughts? I want to dive deep in you

[Anonymous No.11054379]

>>11054301
Wow you totally destroyed my argument.

[Anonymous No.11054393]

>>11054379
You literally wrote you were grasping at straws, anon.

[Anonymous No.11054408]

>>11054067
Everything is fine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY9-p6Z5dW8