/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10991824]

any writers here. I've got a (woman) editor who is disputing one of my chapters. She says, it does not move the story forward at all, and without it, the story flows properly. She says it is indulgent and just talking. But I said it's character development and not every chapter has to move the plot forward.

[Anonymous No.10991833]

post chapter or gtfo

[Anonymous No.10991838]

>>10991824
damn august is cute,
shame she smokes

[Anonymous No.10991841]

>>10991824

She's right. (Almost certainly.) Kill those darlings.

[Anonymous No.10991842]

I'm really afraid if I have this sort of prob with my future editor

[Anonymous No.10991846]

>>10991824
Why is the woman part relevant?

[Anonymous No.10991853]

>>10991846
>Why is the woman part relevant?
Why would it not be relevant?

[Anonymous No.10991860]

>>10991824

Fuck your gay chapter. Kill it, get published.

[Anonymous No.10991865]

Sounds like she's right, OP. Everything should move the plot forward somehow; in every chapter your characters should have some sort of goal they're working towards, however modest it may be.

[Anonymous No.10991866]

>>10991838
whoa you're a cuck

[Anonymous No.10991876]

>>10991838
>tfw you'll never have a girl like that quit smoking because she loves you more than cigarettes

[Anonymous No.10991880]

>>10991860
This. Put up a fight on the second book.

[Anonymous No.10991884]

>>10991824
>reading for plot

[Anonymous No.10991894]

>>10991846
It gives us insight into the possible motives behind her opinions and disputes. It's well known that women are much less likely to be biased and far more likely to use things like emotion (rather than logic) when making decisions or judging people - even people of their own gender, much less the one that deep down they all know is superior.

[Anonymous No.10991896]

>>10991880

[Anonymous No.10991897]

>>10991894
>women are much less likely to be biased
*unbiased

[Anonymous No.10991900]

>>10991894
Edgy

[Anonymous No.10991902]

>>10991846
>>/reddit/

[Anonymous No.10991907]

>>10991880
>>10991860
>>10991841
>>10991896
>Not self-publishing your own book and filtering out the middlemen

[Anonymous No.10991908]

>>10991824
>She says it is indulgent and just talking.

Ask her if she's ever read >pic related

[Anonymous No.10991909]

>>10991866
>he partakes in the tobbaco jew

[Anonymous No.10991913]

>>10991876

[Anonymous No.10991919]

>>10991824
>But I said it's character development and not every chapter has to move the plot forward.

you can't do both at the same time?

[Anonymous No.10991922]

She's right, OP. get rid of the chapters.

[Anonymous No.10991929]

>>10991907
not OP, but I have ZERO social media presence, and I have no literary tie with anybody who write literature and ones that works in publishing business.

I mean how do you market yourself? Implied that if you are in my situation.

>>10991919
so gotta rewrite the chapters?

[Anonymous No.10991932]

" To be serious, and to quit the Allusion before it be worn thread-bare, I am of Opinion, that Women, that is, Women of Sense and Education (for to such alone I address myself) are much better Judges of all polite Writing than Men of the same Degree of Understanding; and that 'tis a vain Pannic, if they be so far terrify'd with the common Ridicule that is levell'd against learned Ladies, as utterly to abandon every Kind of Books and Study to our Sex. Let the Dread of that Ridicule have no other Effect, than to make them conceal their Knowledge before Fools, who are not worthy of it, nor of them. Such will still presume upon the vain Title of the Male Sex to affect a Superiority above them: But my fair Readers may be assur'd, that all Men of Sense, who know the World, have a great Deference for their Judgment of such Books as ly within the Compass of their Knowledge, and repose more Confidence in the Delicacy of their Taste, tho' unguided by Rules, than in all the dull Labours of Pedants and Commentators. In a neighbouring Nation, equally famous for good Taste, and for Gallantry, the Ladies are, in a Manner, the Sovereigns of the learned World, as well as of the conversible; and no polite Writer pretends to venture upon the Public, without the Approbation of some celebrated Judges of that Sex. Their Verdict is, indeed, sometimes complain'd of; and, in particular, I find, that the Admirers of Corneille, to save that great Poet's Honour upon the Ascendant that Racine began to take over him, always said, That it was not to be expected, that so old a Man could dispute the Prize, before such Judges, with so young a Man as his Rival. But this Observation has been found unjust, since Posterity seems to have ratify'd the Verdict of that Tribunal: And Racine, tho' dead, is still the Favourite of the Fair Sex, as well as of the best Judges among the Men." ~ David Hume, "Of essay writing" III.I.7

Clearly the woman knows best about your book! you should listen to her! as the fair sex is far superior at understanding these things.

[Anonymous No.10991938]

>>10991824
it depends what the purpose of your book is, if its to get 99x more readers than you would if you left it your way, then dont leave it your way.

[Anonymous No.10991946]

>>10991932
damn who knew hume was such a cuck

[Anonymous No.10991954]

>>10991932
>not getting the irony...
>that that very paragraph he wrote would be torn to shreds by any female editor

[Anonymous No.10991955]

>>10991841
Seconded. Do the right thing, anon.

[Anonymous No.10991970]

>>10991824
I guess she can't allow that to an author not yet affirmed.
Now tell me, is she hot ?

[Anonymous No.10991972]

>>10991954
>>10991946
How dare you! It is just evidence of the clearly superior literary analytica that the fair sex possesses, you aren't by any chance.... Misogynists are you gentlemen?

[Anonymous No.10991986]

>>10991932
Gee I wonder why the women preferred Racines work

[Anonymous No.10991990]

>>10991876
damn..
not necessarily this girl, but..
damn..
is there love potent enough to numb substantive cravings?
if so
damn..

[Anonymous No.10992004]

Listen to the editor, the editors job is to provide criticism like this.
Gender has nothing to do with you fag.

[Anonymous No.10992012]

>>10991907
>publishing without any sort of independent criticism or analysis because you are convinced you are right and know best

[Anonymous No.10992016]

>>10991894
no it doesn't, shes doing her job as editor
do you think the job of editor is to just pat you on the back?

[Anonymous No.10992034]

>>10992016
what are the greatest literary works edited by a woman? That is, if op is attempting to write a great literary work, if not, listen to her

[Anonymous No.10992081]

>>10991853
You should just walk into her office, slam your fist on her desk, and say, "I'm not going to let a WOMAN stifle my creativity!" She'll then recognize your alpha behavior, because women are just animals, and let you keep your chapter when she realizes her only role is to have children. You should also try to have sex with her.

[Anonymous No.10992207]

>>10991824
Give it to another person to read, preferably another woman

[Anonymous No.10992229]

Hey George. When is The Winds of Winter coming out?

[Anonymous No.10992417]

>>10991841
>>10991860
>>10991865
>>10991846
>>10991922
>>10992004
>>10992016
what are the greatest literary works edited by a woman? That is, if op is attempting to write a great literary work, if not, listen to her

(who edited Virginia Woolf? Who are some other great female authors?)

[Anonymous No.10992423]

>>10991824
Maybe find a way to rewrite it so that it moves the story forward while retaining the character development.

[Anonymous No.10992446]

Are there any genius female writers/editors on /lit/ that can help me edit my novel? and be my girlfriend desu

[Anonymous No.10992507]

>>10991894
>Art
>Logic good emotion bad
>Art

[Anonymous No.10992519]

wait so books are fingerfucked by random people who have decided they are arbiters of good taste? are there people who come around and give painters advice before they can release their latest work?

[Anonymous No.10992529]

send it to some male editors and see what they say

[Anonymous No.10992544]

>>10991824
try to sprinkle some of that character development across the other chapters?

[Anonymous No.10992741]

>>10992544
I developed my characters onto your mom's face and she started bitching because it "stung her eye" and "ruined her makeup". This is why women can't be listened to: their selfish whimsies interfere with the creation of quality art

[Anonymous No.10992771]

>>10992417
I couldn't find any reference to editors but the first publisher of Ulysses was a woman.

[Anonymous No.10992791]

>>10992519
writers are inferior to painters so no, the lesser is subject to the superior always. if you were dominant you would not even go through a publisher

[Anonymous No.10992793]

>>10991986
... because his main characters are always women?

[Anonymous No.10992796]

>character development unattached to plot
wtf are you doing?

[Anonymous No.10992832]

>>10992771
>publisher of Ulysses was a woman.
Cmon... someone answer this: >>10992417

Publisher is not an editor

[Anonymous No.10992848]

>>10992793
...because he was more handsome and looked like a woman

[Anonymous No.10992853]

>>10992417
That irna stern chick edited hemingway and maybe Fitzgerald if Midnight in Paris is anything to go by

[Anonymous No.10992858]

>>10992832
Geng editted Kundera and Roth. There're a lot of female editors, more so than female publishers, because readers and other clerical workers being pink collar jobs has been pretty standard since there's been an industry. Likewise a lot of secretaries tend to be female over the past century. It's harder to find female publishers that aren't also heiresses in comparison.

[Anonymous No.10992874]

>>10991824
take her advice regardless of what you prefer. she probably has a better grasp of what works best, and in a few years from now you'll feel completely indifferent about it either way.

[Anonymous No.10992878]

>>10992874
even if he doesn't he can release an unexpurgated edition for more cash if it's any good at all by then

[Anonymous No.10992882]

>>10991833
/thread

[Anonymous No.10992960]

>>10991841
women are the inferior sex.

[Anonymous No.10993013]

>>10992417
all of pinecones books are edited by a female u pleb

[Anonymous No.10993178]

>>10991824
Stop acting like a child. If you absolutely have to have that in there, then compromise. Alter it so it moves the plot forward while maintaining it's digressive static nature.

[Anonymous No.10993202]

Anon told of you in a prophecy:

Your ultimate goal is to publish a volume, whether a novel, novella, or whatever. A unit of sales. Is the point. There are two doors. One leads to the traditional path, which arrives at a publisher by way of an agent; the other leads back to the Matrix and the destruction of your species.

To get an agent to even open your ms, you are going to need to be able to introduce yourself with credits that can be verified. "My name is Juicy Panflash, and my work has appeared in Disposable EZine, Genre Wonk Monthly, and Haughty Review. Enclosed are the first 20 pages of my literary novel, Totally Not About An Angry Young Man." And so on.

At which point Agent, if feeling charitable that day, goes to the website of Haughty Review, and finds that you were not lying. Reads your pages, then, most likely, dashes your dreams with a rejection notice. If you repeat this process 50 times, you might get an agent to represent your novel to an editor at a publisher. The editor also has the option to crush your dreams. Finding an editor willing to work with you, you will enter the contract phase. This is a business negotiation. Your agent represents your interests, since the more money for you, the more for the agent. You sign the contract and enter the galley phase. Your precious baby will now be mauled, maimed, filleted, and returned to you for your approval of its mutilation. You will protest and offer alternative passages, some of which may squeak through. But don't count on it. Finally, an advance copy, with cover art you probably will hate, will arrive and a release date will be set. Now you will be expected to become a traveling salesman, yes with web site, promotional appearances such as can be arranged and paid for, based on expectations not set by you. On release day, you life's work will fall upon a most likely indifferent market place, and maybe a few local newspaper reviewers can be cajoled into writing you up. Maybe you get a three out of five star review in the Miami Herald. You are now a novelist.

The second door is self-publishing. People cite Twilight and Fifty Shades. Count the number of misfires, and you basically have a lottery here. Similar odds of winning. The choice is yours.

>>/lit/thread/S10903156#p10924970

[Anonymous No.10993257]

>>10993013
Ok, 1 down any more to go? Whats her name, is she real?

[Anonymous No.10993323]

>>10991824
Every chapter should advance the plot.
Every paragraph should advance the plot.
Only at the sentence level should you do things that don't directly advance the plot.
Kill your darlings, save it for another novel, etc. etc.
Seriously, listen to your editor. Especially if she's a professional, and even more so if she's trying to help you get published.
And say thank-you for the feedback.

[Anonymous No.10993409]

>>10993323
But sweety, just look at yourself,
those pills gonna kill you eventually.

[Anonymous No.10993418]

>>10993323
Don't actually say 'thank-you', though, say 'thank you' like a normal person.

[Anonymous No.10993434]

>>10991824
why would you listen to a woman?
why the fuck would you let a women tell you about your writing?
soy boy much? fuck off

[Anonymous No.10993441]

>>10991929
Just put your book on Amazon. If you write it, people will come. Not as many as a traditional publisher shilling your book, but eventually it'll be noticed.

[Anonymous No.10993453]

>>10992081
>You should just
Depending on the circumstances, this might work. Every situation is different and requires its own tailored approach. Has this worked well in the past for you?

[Anonymous No.10993457]

>>10991824
Did people in the past have editors?

[Anonymous No.10993480]

>>10991824


Cut it. The editor's probably right. If the critique was "it's just talking" the editor would be wrong, but the indulgence makes me think the chapter is probably you being way too overt or doing a bunch of psuedo philosophy or some shit that's achived just fine in the rest of the book.

>>10993441
You have no idea what Amazon self-publishing looks like. You can't just throw a book up on there and have it be read. You have to know how to work cover art, keywords, how to get your first reviews, etc. Traditional publishers are much better at promotion than the average person.

[Anonymous No.10993485]

>>10991876
lol is she anorexic now?

[Anonymous No.10993504]

>>10993480
So OP will get fewer books read than a traditional publisher. So? Eventually, if it's good, people will notice

[Anonymous No.10993511]

>>10993504
This might work if you're a liberal, but if you're a normal person with a normal brain you kinda need to eat now, now when "people decide to notice your book".

[Anonymous No.10993513]

>>10993511
>now, now when
now, not when*

[Anonymous No.10993515]

Don't bother
You are your only judge

[Anonymous No.10993528]

>>10993511
> OP won't be able to afford groceries if his book doesn't sell now now now

[Anonymous No.10993546]

>>10992081
>You should also try to have sex with her.
>try

[Anonymous No.10993548]

>>10991824
Are you stupid? If she thinks that it ought to be cut, and you disagree, then explain to her why it is better to include the chapter than cut it. If she is a reasonable person she will be convinced by a half-decent explanation. Learn to communicate or fail you autist. It is not that hard, especially since she is a you-know-what who is very open to suggestion (as long as you aren't some pathetic twink that no one can respect).

[Anonymous No.10993553]

>>10991824
Send her a dick pick

[Anonymous No.10993572]

cum in her thermos when shes not looking, and ask her how certain she is she has good taste

[Anonymous No.10993642]

>>10991824
>>10991876

Tineye is failing me. Who is this?

[Anonymous No.10994038]

>>10993642
Some ugly antifa chick

[Anonymous No.10994318]

>>10991824
Tell her character development is plot

[Anonymous No.10994326]

Nietzsche's ubermensch is a mary sue

[Anonymous No.10994352]

>>10991865
>classical narratives
U gay

[Anonymous No.10994354]

>>10991876
Whoa who is this auschwitz survivor?

[Anonymous No.10994361]

>>10991929
Self publishing is not based on ties, just create multiple social media accounts, put up links to your books and the whore the fuck out of yourself and your work.
Presence is everything.

[Anonymous No.10994469]

>>10993642
>>10994354
August West on Facebook

[Anonymous No.10994568]

>>10994361
pathethic

[Anonymous No.10994585]

>>10994568
You sure showed me by misspelling the only word you posted.

[Anonymous No.10994625]

>>10991894
I bet your profile says "just a nice guy"

[Anonymous No.10994631]

>>10991894
>less likely to be biased
>more likely to use emotion
Pick 1

[Anonymous No.10994639]

OP is Larping...

He doesn't have an editor. He's just sad and wants to pretend for a few hours on /lit/

[Anonymous No.10994657]

>>10992791
painting is shit for faggots with no grasp on language.

fuck off, nick.

[Anonymous No.10994670]

>>10994657
Language is shit for faggots with no grasp on imagery

[Anonymous No.10994673]

Things like this concern me. For example would a female editor want to remove rape scenes since they could be triggering? I honestly would not want a woman to be involved in any aspect of my work.

[Anonymous No.10994700]

>>10991876
I had a qt gf who said she would quit smoking for me but she never did. She said she loved me. She tried to kill herself when I broke up with her. Shoulda stopped smoking, bitch.

[Anonymous No.10995409]

>>10994670
>imagery
>implying you don't have eyes

"gwasp imagery"

[Anonymous No.10995720]

ITT: faggy nonsmokers with Reddit tier self righteousness that would spend their time nagging a gf like an old babushka

[Anonymous No.10995807]

>>10991876
believe me or no but I had this happen in highschool
didn't end up well anyway, chick was mental

moral: girls who smoke are not worth it

[Anonymous No.10995919]

>>10995720
>he pays to inhale toxins

[Anonymous No.10995986]

>>10991824
tell the bitch to shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.10996054]

She is probably right.
Full chapters with nothing happening are only a drag.
The fact that op mentions it's a woman is probably meant to bring is on his side of the argument while screeching 'fucking roasties know nothing about lit'

[Anonymous No.10996108]

>>10994700
deep tale

[Anonymous No.10996120]

>>10991824
I hate it when people act like they know the story better then the writer

[Anonymous No.10996126]

>>10996120
but every chapter should advance the plot even a little

[Anonymous No.10996168]

>>10995720
true, I bet they are all murican faggs

[Anonymous No.10996319]

>>10996126
>If I repeat this writing advice I read somewhere and act like it's an unquestionable rule I will seem knowledgeable about writing

[Anonymous No.10996323]

>>10995720
>hates himself and the world so much he treats women bad to feel better, to feel any power at all

[Anonymous No.10996340]

>>10996323
So?