WRITE WHAT'S ON YOUR MIND THREAD KEEP IT /LIT/ RELATED EDITION

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Anonymous Tue Mar 20 17:34:18 2018 No.10872487 [Reply] [Original]

WRITE WHAT'S ON YOUR MIND THREAD

KEEP IT /LIT/ RELATED EDITION

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 17:38:48 2018 No.10872509 >KEEP IT /LIT/ RELATED EDITION But these threads are usually for non /lit/ related thoughts

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 17:47:57 2018 No.10872552

God fucking dammit. This fucking girl. I don't know what to do with her, it's like walking on a razor.

There's not a single person alive I'm honest with. I don't know how much longer I can continue to pretend to be him. I'm not who everyone thinks he is, and I'm tormented by the guilt and shame of it.

Please leave me alone.

>>10872509
It's just a post, you don't actually have to listen to what it says.

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 18:58:22 2018 No.10872857
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>It's another long anon moans about a girl post
Trite, but it's the first time I'll have fully confessed this to anyone, anonymous or not. I just want to move on..

>be first year uni student
>incredibly alone and alienated, can't manage to make friends
>really angry and upset because I was just starting to have a real social group in high school, now I'm back to perma-alone mode
>going to drop out or kill myself before the end of the semester
>meet girl one weekend in a cafe, actually start a conversation somehow
>we really hit it off, talk, laugh, for a good while
>she's cute as fuck and we share some interests and enjoy similar humor
>exchange numbers before we leave
>she goes to uni a couple towns away, so we don't see each other much during the rest of the year
>text each other constantly though, it's what I look forward to most every day
>summer break comes, summon the courage to stop being autistic and make a move
>almost immediately before I do she mentions she has a boyfriend
>so upset I don't sleep for three days, on the verge of suicide
>____ myself and decide to fight for her
>spend a bunch more time with her over the summer, think I'm actually drawing her in
>but at the same time, realize she's not as great as I thought
>not as smart as I thought, not as inspired, really pretty basic
>the perfect girl I loved, the one I texted all day and joked about dosto with, doesn't exist
>no one can compare to this fantasy I created
>begin to plumb new depths of sadness with this realization
>girl and I are still nominally friends, but we haven't talked in months
>right back to being alone and alienated
>I'm like Gatsby but no one was kind enough to shoot me

How much of an idiot am I /lit/?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:03:00 2018 No.10872874 >>10872857 download tinder, focus all day on other things. Find some nerds who can help make a dating app for /lit/ fans/students

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:05:16 2018 No.10872883

I’m trying to structure the plot of a tragedy using the advices of Robert McKee’s “Story” (his book is indeed very good, in spite of all those people who says that he is good and keep using that stupid word, “guru”), but is extremely hard.

I would love to sculpt a plot with clockwork-entrails and diamond-skeleton, but I’m having a hard time.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:06:46 2018 No.10872889 File: 6 KB, 253x243, 1521399279256.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] college army wagie suicide time to spin the wheel

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:12:25 2018 No.10872901 >>10872487 O ye who are weary and carrying a heavy burden, come to me, and I shall give you rest.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:13:43 2018 No.10872906 >>10872552 go a doctor

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:15:13 2018 No.10872911 >>10872552 Stop pretending to be someone you're not.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:18:31 2018 No.10872922 Why is empathy considered a good thing, but "self-empathy" is equated to self-pity?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:19:08 2018 No.10872926 I wish to write a poem, and not be ill But sandpaper crackles in my dry pipes, Unceasing stiffness holds my joints, and fills My back with aching cotton as I type. I hope this clears up before I leave for NYC

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:19:51 2018 No.10872929 >>10872922 >but "self-empathy" is equated to self-pity? Define self-empathy, my friend. It's a question of degree and scale.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:26:10 2018 No.10872942 >>10872922 This makes me wonder why empathy is only mentioned when talking about people in disadvantageous positions. You'll never hear anyone say "Wow, I really empathize with that guy who just won 200 million."

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:28:15 2018 No.10872948

>>10872906
Already did a while back, he prescribed me some albuterol sulfate cause my chest was killing me.

>>10872911
I don't know how to be myself because I'd assume that would mean pushing everyone away. I have to think everything I say before saying it, to the point where I'm left saying very little.

Having someone I can me completely honest with is all I want. I want to reveal my deepest, darkest truths and know they won't flinch, because I feel as if those truths are too much of an intrinsic part of who I am to ignore.

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:30:07 2018 No.10872957

>>10872922
Empathy =/= pity.

>>10872942
You can't empathize with someone when you haven't experienced what they have. It has nothing to do with the situation; I can see someone falling for someone, and empathize with them because I understand the joy and the inevitable, soon to be seen, despair and anguish that will follow of finding someone new for the first time.

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:30:22 2018 No.10872958

>>10872948
>Having someone I can me completely honest with is all I want. I want to reveal my deepest, darkest truths and know they won't flinch, because I feel as if those truths are too much of an intrinsic part of who I am to ignore.
You can meet such a person, for I have such a person in my life (my gf) and I am not particularly special in any way.

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:39:08 2018 No.10872989

>>10872922
Most people don't really consider empathy a good thing, they consider "empathy towards good people" a good thing. Consider people who commit horrific crimes. A truly empathetic person would understand that despite what they've done, they're still a person and deserve all the things that personhood entails. But this is not how people act, they'll call for the criminal to be horrifically tortured, maimed, executed, etc. Going against this, not denying the criminal his personhood, is met with shock and anger by the mob who are more interested in revenge than justice or forgiveness.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:43:25 2018 No.10873009 >>10872926 what are your plans in nyc?

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:43:42 2018 No.10873011

>>10872857
the problem here I think is that you're sad because you're lonely, and then when you make a friend, you mess it up for yourself because it's not enough to be just friends, you somehow need her to be your girlfriend, even though by your own admission you didn't know her that well. most good relationships develop from friendships or though friendships. focus on that and you'll be both happier and more likely to get a girl I say

t. has a 5 year relationship w/ a girl i was best friends with for 2 years before

gl anon <3

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:44:26 2018 No.10873015 >>10872857 I would be your friend, anon.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:46:34 2018 No.10873025 >>10873011 How many guys did she fuck in that time?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:47:38 2018 No.10873031 >>10872857 Meh, been there done that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:48:41 2018 No.10873036 Why is it so easy for me to spend 5 hours straight reading dozens and dozens of wikipedia articles but it takes me 2 months to finish a book?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:50:22 2018 No.10873042 >>10873025 amazing response, really gives away your insecurities since there was nothing in my post to suggest that, btw A: none, deflowered her

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:51:10 2018 No.10873043 >>10873042 Good for you, anon.

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:51:54 2018 No.10873046

>>10873036
You're not reading those articles, you're skimming them. It's just an amalgamation of short blurbs and excerpts that you faintly remember and are easy to digest whereas reading takes time, patience, and comprehension.

>Why is it so easy for me to spend 5 hours doing something which requires very little energy but it takes me 2 months to finish something I have to commit to?

>>10873042
>btw A: none, deflowered her

You were good until you felt the need to prove the other Anon wrong. I'll have to deduct points for this one mate.

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:53:08 2018 No.10873048

>>10873009
Shuttle between Brooklyn Heights and Long Island, because I have friends in both places. Watch my hometown's university basketball team get its ass thrashed by Duke on Friday night at some sports bar in Brooklyn. Drink probably too much. I'm staying in a house occupied by eight women, so peradventure sex, but that's probably beyond my ken unless I'm completely well before I drive down.

Honestly I don't have any concrete plans other than to drink and reconnect with friends. I haven't spent a full weekend in the city since high school so I'll probably end up doing whatever my friends recommend I ought to do. I might go to the Strand

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:53:38 2018 No.10873051 >>10873025 Wrong board >>>/pol/

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:56:11 2018 No.10873062

I want to holocaust every whiny virgin neet manchild. They're stupid, obnoxious, they poison every corner of the internet with their stupidity and more often then not have an inflated sense of worth despite being literal untermenschen who are to afraid to to have even the most basic social interaction. They need to be killed en masse.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:56:12 2018 No.10873063 >Can you remember what it's like to be inside your mother's womb? I can. I go there when I want to relax. even though the show was mediocre i really like this line for some reason

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:56:35 2018 No.10873067 >>10872957 >You can't empathize with someone when you haven't experienced what they have Are you 4 real, son?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:58:33 2018 No.10873073 >>10873046 ah shucks, i needed them points too

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 19:58:45 2018 No.10873074 >>10872942 Because in that case we talk about envy (he's so lucky!), which itself stems from empathy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:01:01 2018 No.10873080 >>10873067 Knowing that being shot hurts, and knowing what it feels like to be shot are two completely different things senpai.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:01:13 2018 No.10873081 File: 167 KB, 1437x908, neets.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10873062 t. buttflustered wagie

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:10:24 2018 No.10873125 File: 35 KB, 300x250, 1511461368638.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >want to have other anons help me with my poem online >afraid someone will improve it and take it as their own

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:15:13 2018 No.10873144 >>10873125 Oh, and I need help finding a quote. Don't know who said it or why, but it was about how life stops being a prison when a person realizes they have the key.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:15:45 2018 No.10873147 >>10873125 not likely, post it if someone someone does steal it then at least you'll be sure someone thinks its good enough to steal

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:17:40 2018 No.10873157

related to lit, i've figured out im kinda, terrible.

Like I have hundreds of stories, a few I'd really like to turn into books and some i'd really like to eventually become manga/comics but I can't write for myself. I require feedback and attention and critique.

I'm not even sure how someone creates in a vacuum. Like youtube people for example, its all "love it" "good" "i like this" or "kil yourself" "u suck". How do you make something when that type of feedback is what you're getting?

Let alone no feedback.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:19:27 2018 No.10873168 >>10873048 Have you been in school outside of the city? Are you an aspiring writer?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:19:47 2018 No.10873171 File: 30 KB, 472x314, tumblr_o7poil23dz1utapkmo1_500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10873147 >Anon bro, just post it. No one's going to steal it.

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:27:16 2018 No.10873197

>>10873171
>actually thinking anyone on this meme board has written anything worth stealing, let alone poetry, a monetarily dead medium that consistently attracts creative neophytes since it barely requires any time or effort to create a 'finished' piece

hope no-one thinks that cus that'd be rather niave

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:29:12 2018 No.10873200

>>10873168
Nah, dropped out of university because of drugs, now I work two shitty jobs and live with my parents. I'm saving to move out ASAP. I write in my free time but I don't expect to actually publish any of it, but if I somehow get enough together to submit as a book to a publisher, and it gets accepted, I will be happy. In all likelihood it won't happen, I'm probably Dunning-Kruger'd as fuck when it comes to my writing. I've never lived in the city, I just haven't been there in a few years.

The main reason I'm going down there is because I'm desperately trying to maintain contact with my friends from high school, all but one have moved away and it's starting to get lonely.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:29:41 2018 No.10873202 File: 45 KB, 570x487, 1507519502566.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10873197 >since it barely requires any time or effort to create a 'finished' piece correct

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:30:08 2018 No.10873207

>>10872552
Is 'he' tormented by the guilt and shame of it too, anon? Bravo on the Maugham allusion and for giving what OP asked. Personally I dreamed that my gf gave birth to twin girls- I didn't know what to think- but I was being ushered to a door that opened and in an almost blinding white light I saw her face beaming up at me in supreme happiness and raising her arms beckoning me to her bedside in tears and.. ... of course I am supremely embarrassed to have to report this (dreamt this afternoon, I work nights) if in a very different way than yours. The twins names were Wren and Rose. That's the gist- interpretation?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:34:15 2018 No.10873220 >>10873011 >>10872857 Thanks anon, that's some much needed perspective. I'm not >>10873025 btw

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:37:43 2018 No.10873237 >>10873157 write without feedback, who gives a shit what other people think, write something, wait a day or too, if you dont like it, its shit, fix errors, repeat

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:39:29 2018 No.10873243

>>10873207
No, he would be tormented by the everyday trivialities of life one would expect a young man. He's not who I wish I was, but simply the person easiest to be.

I think you'd enjoy having a family with your gf, and that maybe it's something you long for deep down, even if this is something you already know. I'd love to a kid, even though whenever I day dream of raising a son, I never see a woman in the picture. It's just me and him, hand in hand.

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:44:27 2018 No.10873264

>>10873237
because it feels pointless to write without someone reading it.

its just putting a story or world i already have in my head into words, often not easily either.

I don't feel the purpose in writing for just me. I need others to read it to feel, idk, a point.

So I'm kinda terrible, not because I can't write, but that I need an active, i don't know, fanbase? to write and have purpose to it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:44:51 2018 No.10873269 >>10873200 oh, I was wondering because I live in new york and was wondering if we would be great writing partners

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:46:33 2018 No.10873277 >>10873264 'you write for yourself and for strangers [mostly after you die]' or so says gertrude stein, if it helps, anon an on and on and on

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:50:40 2018 No.10873303 >>10873011 >most good relationships develop from friendships Is this true? How is this different from the friend-zone? Mutual attraction?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:51:47 2018 No.10873308 >>10873269 Well shit man, what do you write? I only live like four hours from the city and I enjoy driving.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:51:47 2018 No.10873309 >>10873303 It's bullshit. There is no rule.

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:57:28 2018 No.10873329

>>10873308
Trying to write a poetic novel, a bit of everything, philosophy, politics, etc. What about you, what are your literary interests (what are some of your fav books)? How much have you written? Have you ever planned to or written a novella or novel? What are your jobs?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:57:57 2018 No.10873333 I want you to be honest with me. Not like this. The type of honesty you regret. I just want to keep pushing until you show me who you are.

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 20:59:16 2018 No.10873340

>>10873303
no, as >>10873309 says, there's no rule. friend-zone really means they're not attracted to you, but people can be not attracted to others but still want to be friends with them (and its possible they become attracted to that person later when they know them better). all i'm saying is that if you have friends and are generally social, then you're in the optimal conditions to start relationships. no girl wants to go out with someone with no friends: it's dull, it's concerning, and it quickly leads to one-way dependence, which is not attractive at all

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 21:03:59 2018 No.10873352 I've fallen in love with my professor. She's a totally qt. But I don't know if I stand a chance.

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 21:04:26 2018 No.10873353

Today, while leaving a cafe, I bumped into two girls at the door. They were leaving too. One held the door open to help me have an easier exit. It actually felt really good. I don't remember the last time I felt like that. Are people really that rarely kind to me that a simple gesture makes me feel like that? What the fuck.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how fucking depressed am I?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 21:05:26 2018 No.10873359 >>10873352 >fallen in love >with someone you don't even know a likely story...

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 21:05:47 2018 No.10873361

>>10873329
>Trying to write a poetic novel, a bit of everything, philosophy, politics, etc.
As in a verse novel or a novel that incorporates poetry?

I've been writing sonnets every day for the past week, the form comes easier to me than other things, probably because I'm borderline autistic and need rigid rules in order to write. I'm hoping I can keep this up for a while. I also write essays when I think I can get one out before losing interest. I have never tried to write a novel and I don't plan on doing it any time soon. My favorite novel at the moment is Tristram Shandy. You?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 21:06:55 2018 No.10873365 >>10873353 pretty depressed, didja smile at her?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 21:07:41 2018 No.10873368 >>10873062 Not every corner. I'm sure it'll be safer for you on Reddit.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 21:12:28 2018 No.10873389 >>10873359 I talk to her 1-on-1 for 2-4 hours a week though

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 21:18:17 2018 No.10873408

>>10873361
yes sorry I didnt mean verse novel, just attempting to write narrative with a desire to not have it be dull, lifeless, bland, but full of poetic, flowery flourish.

Thats cool you have been writing sonnets. What are some of the topics of your essays? I like the standard books that appear in top 40 lit lists, most recently from my library book sale I got: The Divine Comedy, 3 Sophocles Plays, Vol 1. Plato Works, Canterbury Tales, The Iliad.

Email me if you want, we can discuss writing at your leisure and maybe you could give me your thoughts on some of my writing and maybe help me improve it: derndernit123@gmail.com

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 21:23:39 2018 No.10873428 am i yet to finish reading Edith Hamiliton´s Mythology, 100 pages left

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 21:25:05 2018 No.10873436 >>10873428 what the fuck, I was just about to post almost this exact sentence. I have about 90 pages left.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 21:27:28 2018 No.10873446 File: 109 KB, 640x675, eris_of_the_month-20170519-eris_pepe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] the goddess works in mysterious ways

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 21:28:28 2018 No.10873450
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>>10872857
I'm rooting for you anon :). I also left school after the first year, but I'm going back in the fall after working through some shit. If you can, maybe taking some pressure off and focusing on yourself will be very beneficial as it was to me. Learning to be on my own has allowed me to grow as my own person without feeling the need for companionship. Good luck out there

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 21:32:36 2018 No.10873458 File: 111 KB, 554x439, 1520791541883.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] a haiku women may fuck me but if actions speak louder then I'd not know love

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 21:46:33 2018 No.10873505 >>10872857 >says she has a bf chicks that legit like u never mention they have a bf because theyre testing the waters with u to see if its an upgrade, then if ur better than current bf they quietly dump him like nothing happened

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 21:51:54 2018 No.10873519 >>10872857 wow, pretty depressing, anon. sorry women hurt so much. i have one hurting me now too. it sucks.

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 21:56:41 2018 No.10873536

>>10873505
>talking to girl rn
>feel like she has a bf, but she never has mentioned anyone
>the only mention of a relationship was a breakup, and how she mentioned that her first boyfriend just asked her out and she said yes after talking for a while

Based on your post, is this a sign from God?

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 22:00:49 2018 No.10873554

>>10873536
sounds like she was just using u to make her old bf jelly, chicks always do that when u diss them or just straight up lose interest, they start parading around with some other fag, and if u still got feelings itll hurt and youll try to get back with her, but if ur a tru gee u'll just be like "we don't love them hos"

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 22:07:59 2018 No.10873575 >>10873554 thanks Snoop Dogg

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 22:10:50 2018 No.10873585 >>10873575 yo did u see that album of gospel songs snoop just released? lol

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 22:16:03 2018 No.10873599 File: 28 KB, 500x280, bb.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] i forgot how good pic related felt

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 22:16:42 2018 No.10873604 I don't actually enjoying reading, but I keep at it because it makes my parents happy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 22:18:20 2018 No.10873611 made it all this way but im never going to get a 'prestigious' job because i just dont have the drive

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 22:28:38 2018 No.10873659 another fucking storm, this bullshit, i love the smug feeling living in the northeast gives me, but god damn it im sick of this shitty weather

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 22:30:16 2018 No.10873665 >>10873599 yo if u can go like 2 or 3 days without talking at all like not even a "no i dont have a store card" when u buy something, its so rad your mind opens up and u can concentrate so deep

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 22:30:17 2018 No.10873666 >>10872487 Three months from the third year...

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 22:31:38 2018 No.10873671 >>10873604 What are you, like 6 years old?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 22:38:12 2018 No.10873691 >>10872487 I wonder how many books have been lost due to totalitarian regimes

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 22:41:16 2018 No.10873706 >>10873536 if a girl has any social media she likely has anywhere from 7 to 25 to 50 potential candidate men/cards that she is judging and testing and weighing

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 22:51:31 2018 No.10873749 >>10873665 >he hasn't even isolated himself in the wildness while reading 8+ hours a day

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 22:51:32 2018 No.10873750

>>10873706
One time I talked for weeks with this lovely girl from college. She was the same age as me (well she still is), about 20 at the time. I thought I was the only guy she was talking to. Oh how naive I was. One day she randomly mentioned that she was going to Iceland soon, I said oh cool, with your family? Nope, with some 37 year old guy who was talking to her at the same time as me. Gee, who woulda thought, a 20 year old college student can't compete financially with some old fucking balding piece of shit. I blocked her from everything and never spoke to her again.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 22:54:02 2018 No.10873756 >>10873750 just because some old sugar daddy betabuxer is taking her on vacation doesnt mean u cant smash, stop being so sentimental

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:00:23 2018 No.10873782 >>10873750 This guy >>10873756 is right you could've cucked the shit out of that old faggoli. He could have bankrolled your dates with her without even knowing it. You could've been the cream puff takin' his money.

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:07:14 2018 No.10873799

How do I make this character not such a wimpy bitch

>half-chinese girl living in the british empire who has given up because resistance is futile

I was thinking maybe rather than high-strung and anxious she just acts exhausted, sarcastic and depressed

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:09:52 2018 No.10873805 >>10873671 Unworthy of such praise, friend.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:13:33 2018 No.10873817 >>10873799 make her meet some weird guy who talks her into becoming a dominatrix, shy girl learning to be a dominatrix whipping 55 year old british gents and stuff 'oh me bollocks', and name a chapter '51 shades of yellow'

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:16:44 2018 No.10873824 >>10873817 kek. but in all seriousness I just want to make her bearable

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:29:03 2018 No.10873866

>>10873824
I was serious... if you dont do this your book will suck, and if you do it may become a best seller.

whas her deal, does she have any family? what year is it? how old is she? is she looking for a job or has a job? textile worker? fish market? geisha? casino? restaurant? who are the other characters? is she main character? what is she seeking? how did she get there? What has she given up? Sounds like she is just immature? What is she seeking in life? how many friends oes she have? does she seek friends? close with parents? How well off monetarily? seeking love interest?

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:35:53 2018 No.10873879

>>10873866
The story is about an american boy who winds up apprenticed to a famous chinese chef who wound up a noted political dissenter and activist when he was younger. This chef, the girl's grandfather, is now an old man and is returning to china to see his homeland again before he dies and assure that his westernized grandaughter knows what he fought for

Throughout the journey the boy and girl see the atrocities of the colonies with the boy recklessly trying to do what's right and the girl trying to take the safer path but growing increasingly dissatisfied with her own failure to stand up for herself

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:39:42 2018 No.10873885

>>10873243
I'll say this. Parental love kicks romantic love's ass. The heart becomes the figure or rather the abstraction it is when compared to the love in your guts, which is what parental love- and true care and concern (for another)- is. Hope that somehow it works out for (you), and for all involved.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:41:04 2018 No.10873886 >>10872487 I'm happy when e everyone around me is sad

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:43:25 2018 No.10873894 >>10873756 >>10873782 I guess so, but it really turned me off and bummed me out at the time.

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:43:36 2018 No.10873895

I work at a Goodwill and over the radio they play ads that talk about how Goodwill has helped people by giving them jobs. They all talk about how they've been given a "sense of purpose" just by having a menial retail job, and that they feel that they've "earned their keep." Is this the life? I never saw what I'm doing as anything to be happy about. Maybe I value leisure over labor. Maybe I'm a hedonist. Maybe I just need to find a better job.

What philosophical writings should I read to make sense of this feeling?

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:43:36 2018 No.10873896

>>10873879
do u actually know anything about china or is this some yellow fever induced fantasy? british imperialism never made serious inroads in mainland china, and other than the short but humiliating opium wars which were really just to open chinese ports to trade there wasn't much bloodshed...the colonial atrocities in china were committed by the fucking japs

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:44:37 2018 No.10873899 >>10873886 I'm only happy when it rains.

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:47:15 2018 No.10873903

>>10873895
it's not that you're a hedonist you just have no self-respect since you'd rather still be sleeping in ur childhood bedroom if ur mom would let u get away with it, do u realize in primitive cultures giving gifts is a way of showing dominance? if u have to really on someone elses gifts (your mom, the government, etc) then you're basically owned, many people have self-respect and dignity and therefor take pride in being able to support themselves, but we can't all be masters, someone has to play the other role, might as well be you

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:48:18 2018 No.10873907 >>10873899 yo i was just listening to that song today for some reason, far out

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:49:41 2018 No.10873915 >>10873903 Are you going to send me money now?

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:49:50 2018 No.10873917 Caddy smells like trees

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:51:36 2018 No.10873924 >tfw u notice firefox isn't using https so any sneaky fucker on the network could be sniffin up all ya sadboi posts and laffin

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:51:51 2018 No.10873925 >>10873903 Hey now, I'm not that much of a sad sack.

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:52:10 2018 No.10873926 >>10873799 She teaches her dog to do the Nazi salute and ends up in prison

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:52:45 2018 No.10873928 >>10873915 >participate in gift culture sorry im not a fucking eskimo, get your own fish

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:53:11 2018 No.10873930 >>10873691 Too few

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:53:13 2018 No.10873931

>>10873896
full admission: i don't. My plan was that I was going to use really generic place names so it's not clear if it's taking place in our world or a fictional one that just resembles our world.

the british are referred to as "the empire" or "the crown". China is "the east", new york is "the big city" africa is "the dark continent", etc.

that lets me do what I want with the narrative without having to worry about getting every historical detail correct

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:53:35 2018 No.10873934 >>10873903 Fuck off, wagie

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:56:48 2018 No.10873939 >>10873928 I'm willing to work for it master Wiggles tail

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:57:02 2018 No.10873940

>>10873895
thrift stores are awesome, you can always peruse all the items, and maybe get a discount on uberdiscounted goods? Many people struggle to get any job, and working at a good will the bar is super low for starters, not like macys or some high end retail where you have to look like a super model everyday and deal with some ritzy bitchy manager and talk to ritzy bitchy customers, literally no reason not to be laid back, its pretty much 1000% profit buisness, and all the customers are on the lower end of the totem pole, dont become a horder, but do look for some neat knick knacks you can give to gifts to your parents or future wife

Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:57:32 2018 No.10873941

>>10873931
yoooo u know wut would be sick, do it in tibet! the british slaughtered the SHIT out of the tibetans when they first showed up there, but most ppl don't know about it since the cia tried to use tibet as a wedge to start a war between india and china during the cold war, or u could riff on orwells shooting an elephant story and set it in burma, i feel where ur goin with it maybe, but maybe do it somewhere a little more rare

>>	Anonymous Tue Mar 20 23:58:42 2018 No.10873946 >>10873885 >Hope that somehow it works out for (you), and for all involved. Thank you Anon. I wish you and your gf the best.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 00:08:59 2018 No.10873972 >>10873941 that could work with a bit of the other stuff I'm not talking about, I'll have to keep that in mind, but for the moment I just want to focus on making sure this character isn't grating or pathetic or just plain unlikable.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 00:11:07 2018 No.10873978 >>10872857 >I'm like Gatsby but no one was kind enough to shoot me lmao

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 00:11:18 2018 No.10873979 >>10873972 oh idk i'm not a chick so i dont read for characters, i read for ideas

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 00:13:10 2018 No.10873981

>>10873972
>>10873941
Ya, and did they allow women to become monks? Maybe have her do the mulan thing and pass as a monk for sometime, or is that too weebo, going to some monastary and becoming a master who can withstand the elements and levitate before coming back down to the profane world

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 00:15:31 2018 No.10873989

>>10873879
boy recklessly trying to do whats right, what are n examples of situatons where this happens? and girl takes what safer path, what would be doing whats right? So the bulk of the story is a vacation like travel time, takes place over the course of less than a year?

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 00:35:59 2018 No.10874053 [DELETED]

>>10873989
an example I had early on is that at one point some highborn woman who appreciates fine cuisine offers to let them stay at her manor as guests if the chef prepares a fine feast for her. However, the manor is a fruit plantation by any other name where indentured natives have to till the land for a meager amount of grain.

Naturally the boy sees these starving workers and offers them some of his food (which they grew) only to get in trouble with the taskmasters and be nearly kicked out. after that the boy just tries to do that again in secret while the girl tries to stop him to keep them from getting kicked out. Of course later the chef gets the woman to agree that the workers may have a portion of whatever is leftover from the feast when they're finished she feeds her scraps to her poodles but still keeps her word... by giving them to plates

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 01:32:24 2018 No.10874234

I've been with a few different girls in my life, yet only one did I feel a genuine connection with.
I've told girls I've loved them before, and I guess I sort of meant it, but I don't think it was entirely true. I never liked them. I never found them that stimulating to talk to, half the time I was with them I would count the seconds down to either sex or me leaving. Then when I got out of the relationship I never really cared.
But this one girl I still think about. I don't believe in the concept of "the one", I think there are a select few women in the world who you connect with above all others and those are the ones you (hopefully) end up with. This girl was one of them. We clicked so instantly, we stroke such a great balance between being similar and different, so our conversations were often interesting. She was so gorgeous. She was the only girl who I couldn't get enough of, I wanted to hear her opinions on everything because she was very articulate and passionate. She was able to go above the mundane conversations that I usually had with women.
But it was not meant to be. We lived too far and neither of us agreed with the idea of a LDR. So our relationship diminished, and we fell out of each others lives. I tried reinitiating contact a few months ago, however it did not go as planned. She did not want to get deep into anything again, I think she was enjoying her current live free and party lifestyle. It was painful to talk to her and feel that what we had was not going to be reinstated.

I randomly went through some of our old texts the other night while in bed, and stayed up for hours reading them and reliving the emotions I felt when with her. It deeply saddened me and I've been quite down as of late because of it. She was the first girl who I felt like that with and I haven't felt it since.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 02:06:00 2018 No.10874342 >>10874234 This hits too close to home, my nigga

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 02:50:06 2018 No.10874449 >>10873011 I don’t really think guys and girls can be really close friends genuinely unless there is something like an age difference.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 02:54:29 2018 No.10874458 >>10872487 >Flaubert >Maupassant >Proust Holy trinity of French lit.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 04:23:13 2018 No.10874604 >>10873979 stop being such a sexist pig

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 05:31:00 2018 No.10874739
File: 103 KB, 794x640, IMG_7787.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I autistically handed a girl working at the library a paper that said, "You're cute, text me :)" with my number on it. It was such an insiginificant thing but holy shit I feel like the most anxious retard right now

On top of that, she didn't text me

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 09:02:16 2018 No.10875153 >>10874739 You could've handled this better OP, but don't let this fuck up prevent you in the future from future pursuits. Don't ever do this shit again though. It makes you look shy and cowardly.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 09:14:09 2018 No.10875180 File: 202 KB, 476x316, 1521580245551.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10874739 >Not handing her a note that said "reply to this post or your mother will die in her sleep"

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 09:14:38 2018 No.10875184

Alice in Wonderland isn't good, even as kidslit. The metaphors and imagery that have seeped into general culture ("down the rabbit hole," cute Alice with goofy animals etc.) are much better than the actual text. Alice is a whimsical idiot who should be strangled.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 09:20:46 2018 No.10875196 >>10875180 This is genius. I might unironically use this one day.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 09:42:21 2018 No.10875246 >>10873125 >>10873171 I knew a guy who stole poems from /lit/ and claimed them as his own he had a mental breakdown and joined a cult

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 13:21:09 2018 No.10875943

Years ago my ex and i broke up, first woman i loved and us breaking up was mostly amicable, painful but we still saw each other periodically

Two years after we broke up she told me she got raped and it was very terrifying. I was sorry that it happened, but i was mostly at a loss for words. At one point she said “when i was in the hospital i wished you were there.” Silence

My main kinks are degradation and sadism. I could never tell anyone in my life this without feeling evil but I got off to that for months and months and it was my main sexual fantasy for the longest time

Had we been dating i would have been ballistic and bloodlusted

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 13:21:59 2018 No.10875946 There's something bad at the bottom of my lungs and I can't cough it up. It's going to be with me forever.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 13:25:04 2018 No.10875957 >>10872883 >I would love to sculpt a plot with clockwork-entrails and diamond-skeleton, but I’m having a hard time. This. Suggestions for plotting?

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 14:22:05 2018 No.10876151

hey stemfags any of u sadsack asshats heard of the dude known as "lcamtuf"? he was head of google security engineering until he quit today. guess what? he was no degree in anything and yet his career is 1000x better than yours will ever be; even after grinding through all those mindnumbing classes and memorizing all those useless formulas you'll never be on a level to even carry this dudes jockstrap. face it, you either have talent or you dont and no amount of mfa or cs classes is going to change that

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 14:25:24 2018 No.10876159 >>10875946 haha

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 14:30:15 2018 No.10876175 >>10876151 >you either have talent or you dont why do stupid people think that being good at things is somehow magic

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 14:32:31 2018 No.10876182 Once again I am facing the dilemma of alcohol, diazepam, or insomnia. The third most probably as I have experienced the withdrawal from first two and am saving the little I have for medicinal purposes.

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 14:33:15 2018 No.10876186

Interacting with functionally average members of society presents a minatory challenge to my sense of self. Oftentimes I find myself drawing back, responding to nonsensical conversation regarding sartorial trends and driveling logomachies with a particular asperity reserved solely for the lugubriousness of quotidian discussion.

O! /lit/! 'tis truly difficult for a complex intellectual such as me to relate to the Common Man. Sometimes I do wonder whether God intended the social landscape to be adust -- must I abjure my mentality, auguring the withering of my rare artistry!

O! /lit! 'tis a surreptitious thing, my striving to bring about an instauration of wit and philosophy.

O! O! Woe, for I am alone, the pernicious quibbling of the simians never subsiding...

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 14:35:51 2018 No.10876193 >>10876175 it's not "magic" it's "iq" my low iq friend

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 14:37:34 2018 No.10876204 Sometimes I do nothing but read for weeks on end, then I don't touch a book for a few months, can't bring myself to pay attention. Same with writing. What#s that about?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 14:48:22 2018 No.10876254 >>10876193 in principle IQ doesn't make you good at anything other than IQ tests it only disqualifies you if it's low

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 14:48:55 2018 No.10876256 File: 106 KB, 1280x715, 1450118340634.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10875180 Thanks for the laugh mate.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 14:59:31 2018 No.10876298 >>10875943 That's a really shitty thing for her to tell you. She really had no reason to tell you she wished you were there, other than to fuck with you and make you feel some level of responsibility for her.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 15:01:08 2018 No.10876303 >>10876186 Speak english this is /lit/ love it or leave it

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 15:06:31 2018 No.10876320 I want to live a comfy Epicurean life but don't know where to find companions. Everyone I know is so obsessed with materials, career advancement, etc. Where are my compatriots? Are communes still a thing?

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 15:11:01 2018 No.10876331

>>10872487
Is it /lit to fuck my PhD adviser? I wasn't sure if she reciprocated before but she recently hit on my pretty strongly at our workplaces st. patricks day party, calling me cute and shit. How the fuck do I go about this without ruining her, or my own career?

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 17:42:35 2018 No.10876915
File: 806 KB, 1001x823, 6c9930131842d66d.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I'm starting to pour my emotional turmoil into writing. Feels pretty good. Even if it ends up being complete garbage it will have been a cathartic experience. Maybe once I'm done I'll finally be ready to be happy again.

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 17:49:06 2018 No.10876940

>>10876186
2/10, unfunny and the person who wrote this is a pseud who thinks they’re not a pseud, but calls themself a pseud so they can get away with pseudery like making fun of pseuds badly. alltogether lesser humanity on display in this post of yours anon, here’s a (You) so you can feel good about the pasta repost assuming this wasn’t actually yours

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 17:59:28 2018 No.10876985

>>10874234
fug I know that feeling.

>>10876331
I wouldn't. She could fuck up your entire career.

I ate a bunch of old apricots for lunch today, and I've been shitting my brains out all afternoon. I'm supposed to be seeing a girl I like tonight, but I'm worried that I'm going to be spending the entire time in the toilet. What do?

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 18:00:54 2018 No.10876992

>>10876182
Diazepam isn't good for sleep dummy, its long acting. Switch to temazepam or z-pills (zolpidem or zopiclone). If you find yourself dependent on benzos then you switch to mirtazapine or another drowsy anti-d class drug sutiable for medium-long term use.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 18:50:08 2018 No.10877146 >>10876985 try to reschedule?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 18:52:21 2018 No.10877156 File: 686 KB, 1200x428, 543643123213.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] THERES TOO MANY BOOKS TO READ AND SO LITTLE TIME Even if i spent 20 hours a day reading i'd barely get through all the stuff i want to read in a lifetime

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 19:13:36 2018 No.10877244

As Christians we have to be non-consequentialists. The consequences of our actions don’t control whether or not our actions are morally correct. I’ll give a two examples. God is without sin and he knew that Lucifer would eventually lead a rebellion. However, God still made Lucifer the angel of light, even though He knew that Lucifer would get prideful and want equality with God. So from a consequentialist perspective God would’ve sinned because he did things that led to Lucifer committing the gravest sin. But we know that God is sinless so it must be the case that what makes things good has nothing to do with consequences of the action. Here’s another example. Jesus asked Judas Iscariot to follow him even though he knew Judas would betray him. Jesus could’ve avoided his betrayal if he had decided to only have 11 disciples, but it must have been morally upright to invite Judas to become a disciple, despite Judas’s eventual sin.

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 19:16:09 2018 No.10877256

Look, one day I had gone to a little village. An old grandfather of ninety was busy planting an almond tree. ‘What, grandfather!’ I exclaimed. ‘Planting an almond tree?’ And he, bent as he was, turned around and said: ‘My son, I carry on as if I should never die.’ I replied: ‘And I carry on as if I was going to die any minute.’

Which of us was right, /lit/?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 19:20:13 2018 No.10877271 >>10877256 the almond tree of course

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 19:36:58 2018 No.10877335

>>10877244
you're right but your second example isn't the best: Jesus had to be killed in order to fulfill the covenant. He had his eye on the long game when he invited Judas to follow him.
A better example is how Jesus said in Matthew 5:
>(27) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
>(28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Which is expounded upon by CS Lewis (and probably others but I'm a poorly-read proddie so that's the first reference that pops into my head). Basically it means that you are guilty of sin if you would sin, given the right circumstances, even if those circumstances never occur and you never actually do it. If you're mad enough at someone that you would kill them in a perfect scenario where no one ever found out, etc, then you're guilty of murder in the eyes of God. That's because sin isn't an action, it's a descriptor. You are responsible for the guilt of your sin, even if you never act on it and the consequences never actually play out. This is another example of morality as distinct from consequences.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 19:38:45 2018 No.10877343 >>10872857 >I'm like Gatsby but no one was kind enough to shoot me kekd but also felt a feel

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 19:58:25 2018 No.10877442 In a dark room, in cold sheets, I can't feel a damn thing. I lost myself between your legs. Your medicine is in my head. [Spoiler]The song stucks in my head somehow.[/spoiler]

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 20:15:35 2018 No.10877514

Graduating with an M.A. soon in Russian & Eurasian politics + security. Fluent in Russian, can read Ukrainian (not heritage speaker, jew amerifag) Trying to get a job in tech sphere, or at some decent company. Would apply to government sectors but I can't help smoking weed every couple weeks and fucking that avenue up (need to be sober from weed 1+ year). Need to get a job, one I'm somewhat thrilled about by June 7th, or I'll become a NEET. I'll do anything to not become a NEET, except maybe work in food service or at Target.

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 21:27:31 2018 No.10877802

i'm slowly switching to /r9k/, after that kid blew his brains out i got into some threads over there, it's just more real, this board is getting boring, nothing but normie pseuds, anti-semitic cranks, religious wackos, and youtube advertisements. it's just shit.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 21:38:15 2018 No.10877862 >>10877802 Please don't anon, this board is a giant echo chamber for depressed pseuds but /r9k/ is even worse. Melodramatic, but I think you'll seal your fate if you move into that ecosystem.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 21:44:03 2018 No.10877894 >>10875184 >Alice is a whimsical idiot who should be strangled. I don't know if you're retarded enough to think this while also knowing it's an argument against utility monsters and the death penalty.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 21:47:52 2018 No.10877906 >>10875184 u should listen to "a very short introduction to post-structuralism" it has a thing talking about how the humpty dumpty section was about signifiers and signifieds

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 22:22:56 2018 No.10878057

>>10877894
>while also knowing it's an argument
wish you would have saved us this post and provided the arguments

>Alice is a whimsical idiot
anon you are responding to obviously believes either whimsical idiots should not respected/celebrated/appreciated/enjoyed and/or strictly taught their whimsical idiocy away into absence

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 22:38:38 2018 No.10878123 >>10875180 Haha holy shit

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 23:01:40 2018 No.10878206 >>10877862 >>10877802 this. I moved out of there a few years ago and it's gotten much better. You are what you expose yourself to m8. /lit is a shithole but r9k is the path to suicide

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 23:06:00 2018 No.10878224 No one ever reads Milton except for solemn intellectual task, and as a poet he wasn't very good.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 23:08:05 2018 No.10878237 >>10875184 Consider, my dear, she's only a child

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 23:09:43 2018 No.10878243

Here /lit/ Here is a poem/short story

A Schizo Aff met a BPD
And for a moment in time
Shared the world with each other
Neither talked about their illness
They just knew it was a part of them
No labels just love

Both had their problems
Her with the cutting and suicide attempts
Him with the pot and acid
Both changing into someone
The other didn’t recognize

One day the stress
Became too much for the Schizo Aff
And he had a breakdown, a hospitalization,
Had the world flip on his head
So he threw up walls and
Never uttered a word to his partner in crime
He just cut it off sharply
And quickly to lessen the blood flow.

The BPD never knew why or
Received an explanation so
To the grave she will carry the resentment
Once lovers, they became strangers
Dancing around each other
Until the day they die.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 23:37:49 2018 No.10878342 >>10878243 thats terribly sad and he was wrong in doing that to her

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 23:38:44 2018 No.10878345 >>10878224 milton is goat, better watch that yale opencourseware class on it first before u pseud yourself any further

Anonymous Wed Mar 21 23:45:30 2018 No.10878372

>>10878342
He was incapable of explaining anything and anytime he tried it just made things worse. It was a tough decision but it was necessary to create some distance. He was not entirely faultless, it was just making the best of a difficult situation.

It was for the better though. The girl ended up getting tattoos, septum pierced, and cheated on her next boyfriend that she found in less than a month.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 23:52:15 2018 No.10878391 >>10878345 I'm studying English at Oxford

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 23:53:53 2018 No.10878397 >>10878372 >and cheated on her next boyfriend that she found in less than a month. aye, alrighty then

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 23:54:51 2018 No.10878404 >>10878391 that place must have degenerated into an asian diploma mill if pseuds like u representative of they students

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 21 23:58:08 2018 No.10878415 >>10878404 Oh it's a complete dump

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 00:11:01 2018 No.10878450 [DELETED]

i'm so sick of these third world people who wipe their ass and throw it in the trash instead of flush it down the toilet, the whole reason europeans invented indoor plumbing is so that we don't have to smell stale shit every time we take a shower or brush our teeth, jesus fucking christ, the only bad part about being poor is that you have to live with non-europeans and that's always slightly unpleasant

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 00:11:49 2018 No.10878451 >>10878391 what dont you like about miltons poetry? Post some lines of his you think arent that great

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 00:12:23 2018 No.10878456

i'm so sick of these third world people who wipe their ass and throw it in the trash instead of flush it down the toilet, the whole reason europeans invented indoor plumbing is so that we don't have to smell stale shit every time we take a shower or brush our teeth, jesus fucking christ, the only bad part about being poor is that you have to live with non-europeans and that's always unpleasant

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 00:16:21 2018 No.10878462 >>10878451 I wrote a poem about it, if you'd like to hear it

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 00:52:20 2018 No.10878588 >>10878462 yes surely, but also post 5 lines of milton you think are not good

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 01:13:38 2018 No.10878651 When I heard that the Austin Bomber got caught and died, the first thought that crossed my mind was "that's boring"

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 01:16:34 2018 No.10878662
File: 69 KB, 640x428, 1510319802189.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Doesn't matter if you're white, black, female, male, or whatever. People shouldn't be treated based on who they were born as/what they are, they should be treated based on the merit of their character. Affirmative action and diversity quotas, they don't change anything. It doesn't punish racists or sexists, it just creates the illusion of a fair system while those people will still manipulate things in whatever ways they can. The root of the problem needs to be dealt with.

But you know what, trannies can go fuck themselves. They're just fetishists at worst and mentally ill at best. They choose to mangle themselves up and whine for attention and validation.

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 01:18:24 2018 No.10878669

>>10878651
i hope the half hour confession on his phone leaks so we can see if he was autistic or what

the cops story seems bogus though claiming he blew himself up but then they shot him anyways, i get the feeling they did him dirty but since it was a terrorist white guy no one is gonna look into it

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 02:11:23 2018 No.10878832 >>10876151 why the fuck would i want to work for that godawful company?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 04:15:25 2018 No.10879148 >>10872487 I don’t know why I feel such urge to escape from all, I need some time alone to focus on my well-being. This lifestyle is consuming and will consume me if don’t put a stop, sadly I think i won’t do shut about and die hanging in my 30’s

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 04:31:00 2018 No.10879180
File: 114 KB, 1280x720, bladernnr.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>out with qt I've been spending a lot of time with
>she starts talking about how she's single
>she says she's been uninterested for a while, but someone is pulling her back in
>oh fuck, now it's my time
>talks about how great this guy is, and says that his name is my name
>on cloud 9
>yeah his name is anon, and he looks a lot like you
>heart is pumping fast now
>but I met him on tinder, and we've been on a few dates
>at first I even thought it was you
>mfw

I should spent the evening reading instead.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 04:32:32 2018 No.10879183 >>10879180 *have

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 06:10:18 2018 No.10879357 >>10877802 Don't do it bro. I don't know which problems do you have but that place will only make them worse, thanks to the crab in the bucket mentality. The only positive side (when I used to spend time on that board) were the funny Pepe memes

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 06:11:32 2018 No.10879362 >>10877802 How about you stop spending your days on the internet you fucking faggot

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 08:00:42 2018 No.10879595
File: 102 KB, 768x364, 05onfire1_xp-master768-v2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>Have several stories floating around in my head.
>Everytime I attempt to write, my 'tism kicks in and I can't get the words down onto the paper.
>Lose drive to write because none of what I can even jot down reads like actual books.

I just wish to tell stupid stories about space heroes, why is this so hard?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 08:23:41 2018 No.10879625 I'd like it to stop snowing so I can start spending more time outside. Staying in my room all day isn't good for my mental state.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 08:31:54 2018 No.10879653 >>10879595 >he can't ignore noises through sheer force of will spotted the low IQ spoiled brainlet

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 08:42:01 2018 No.10879670

>>10879625
same, my main goal right now is to move to tempe, after i saw uber mow down that chick walking her bicycle in the nice warm summer like air in the middle of march all i can say is "i'm in there like swimwear" FUCK these bullshit winters and all this fucking snow, it's almost april and i still haven't been able to start running again and i'm gaining weight, this cycle of getting in supreme shape by the end of the summer and then having to become a slob for 5 months while i wait for the weather to change is just not the way i want to live

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 09:16:40 2018 No.10879765 >>10879595 Write short stories for a while. Set them in your larger story, if that helps. Whatever you do, keep writing.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 09:17:17 2018 No.10879767 >>10873036 in case you don't know: the medium is the message

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 09:19:46 2018 No.10879773 >>10873062 or you could try to direct your anger against your real enemies

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 09:28:48 2018 No.10879800

I had this idea today, that if i die and reborn into some other person wouldn't be any different then just non-existence at all, because i wouldn't remember my previous life. Which i then expanded to the notion, that complete loss of memory would be akin to death, because without my memories person who who would live in my body wouldn't be me. Basically what makes me myself is continuous stream of consciousness and years of experience stored of my brain.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 09:36:16 2018 No.10879838 >>10879800 this is why free will can't be real and if it was it wouldn't be desirable. if you deleted your memories then you could react to stimulus in new ways, but you'd also be dead, so to act with free will would be a complete negation of the self

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 09:40:20 2018 No.10879844 yo who got that new unknown mortal orchestra leak?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 09:40:20 2018 No.10879845 >>10879838 What? I'm not seeing your argument anon.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 09:42:15 2018 No.10879850 the great unmoved is moved yet still as we who want, crave only will.

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 09:44:51 2018 No.10879857

>>10879845
i'm not sure it's an argument, i'm just saying if your experiences are what make you then "to be" is to exist in a deterministic continuum, and the only way out would be to wipe your experiences which would, as argued by the op, akin to death, so to have free will one would need to commit a sort of suicide, which leads me to believe free will is overrated, everyone wants to believe free will is real and only grudgingly accept determinism, but why should free will be considered good? its basically death

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 09:47:13 2018 No.10879866
File: 80 KB, 1400x2072, zero-k_don-delillo-5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Just woke up and finished pic related, it was really good.
Now I'm wondering why /lit/ doesn't seem to mention or read this guy much... although this is the only Delillo I have read I am definitely going to read some of his other stuff.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 09:49:38 2018 No.10879869 >>10879866 i need to read something good i've just been reading old roman shit and it's so fucking boring, the romans were no greeks

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 09:51:33 2018 No.10879874 >>10879869 Yea sometimes I feel like after the Greeks almost nothing worthwhile was written until about the 1800's (with a few exceptions)

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 09:58:10 2018 No.10879894 >>10879874 the 1700s had its moments, gibbon, rousseau, voltaire, goethe, etc

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 09:58:57 2018 No.10879897 something that's been bothering me immensely lately is that i cannot find any purpose in progress. is it all just so we can watch youtube videos in increasingly comfortable living rooms? is the meaning of life really just to have fun?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 09:59:36 2018 No.10879900 >>10879894 >goethe although i just saw faust, was published in 1808, but werther was like 1770s i think

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 10:00:34 2018 No.10879906

>>10878588
Here >>10869265
He had fine rhetorical skill, learned at Christ's, but it dulled his poetic sense. It's a long story. Milton was not a great poet, in the sense in which Shakespeare was great. He was a minor poet with a remarkable ear for music. What (by your leave) makes Lycidas a bad poem, is that Milton put on Theocritan fancy dress and, as Dr. Johnson first pointed out, it must 'not be considered the effusion of real passion'.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 10:01:11 2018 No.10879908 >>10879866 I have a feeling in 20 years time or maybe less Zero K will become very relev

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 10:02:30 2018 No.10879912 >>10879866 I have a feeling in 20 years time or maybe even less, Zero K will become very relevant, not only because of its cryogenic theme but with all the end of times survival cabal stuff.

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 10:03:34 2018 No.10879918

>>10879897
idk no matter if i have money or not i just like to walk around outside at night listening to music and audiobooks, ive wasted so many years of my life just wandering around with headphones, started as a teen skipping highschool to listen to cassettes on my walkman, now i listen to apple music and audible on my iphone, but life is the same, and i'm perfectly ok with that i just wanna move somewhere warm so i can get lost in nocturnal sauntering reverie year round

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 10:17:58 2018 No.10879963

>Spending my whole day reading makes me feel satisfied but there's always this lurking feeling that I'm missing out on socializing
>Whenever I go out and socialize with people I feel like killing myself
How do I either stop desiring unfulfilling mindless socialization or start enjoying chatting with bugmen and roasties?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 10:19:04 2018 No.10879965 >>10876186 Hi Icycalm

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 10:20:53 2018 No.10879970 >>10879897 "if you move forward you are not likely to be very civilized in the process. and the most civilized countries are likely to be those where progress is not considered a very important pre-occupation."

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 10:30:07 2018 No.10879999

>>10879963
i feel that way when i have sex, on the rare occasion that i get liad first i want to kill myself because for a couple days afterwards i can feel what its like to be a normie until it fades then all thats left is the cringing over awkward memories, now i dont even try to get laid

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 10:30:46 2018 No.10880001

The fact that so many books still name the Beatles as "the greatest or most significant or most influential" rock band ever only tells you how far rock music still is from becoming a serious art. Jazz critics have long recognized that the greatest jazz musicians of all times are Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Classical critics rank the highly controversial Beethoven over classical musicians who were highly popular in courts around Europe. Rock critics are still blinded by commercial success. The Beatles sold more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore they must have been the greatest. Jazz critics grow up listening to a lot of jazz music of the past, classical critics grow up listening to a lot of classical music of the past. Rock critics are often totally ignorant of the rock music of the past, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that the Beatles did anything worthy of being saved.
In a sense, the Beatles are emblematic of the status of rock criticism as a whole: too much attention paid to commercial phenomena (be it grunge or U2) and too little to the merits of real musicians. If somebody composes the most divine music but no major label picks him up and sells him around the world, a lot of rock critics will ignore him. If a major label picks up a musician who is as stereotyped as can be but launches her or him worldwide, your average critic will waste rivers of ink on her or him. This is the sad status of rock criticism: rock critics are basically publicists working for major labels, distributors and record stores. They simply highlight what product the music business wants to make money from.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 10:35:11 2018 No.10880016 >>10879999 we're all just normies really

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 10:36:20 2018 No.10880018 >>10880001 >the greatest jazz musicians of all times are Duke Ellington and John Coltrane pretty sure this is all wrong, but i don't care enough about "music criticism" to argue with u, take it to /mu/ where ppl actually give a shit

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 10:37:33 2018 No.10880030 >>10880016 >we're all just normies really reddit really dumbed down this board

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 10:38:39 2018 No.10880037 >>10872922 Everyone has empathy for themselves, by definition.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 10:39:43 2018 No.10880039 >>10880030 let's just have normal conversations

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 10:53:05 2018 No.10880083 >>10879874 What about, you know, Shakespeare?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 10:55:42 2018 No.10880093 >>10880083 he said almost nothing not nothing, obviously we all know shakespeare, hobbes, milton, kjv committee, etc.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 11:27:42 2018 No.10880217 >>10879874 You mean the 1500's

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 11:34:01 2018 No.10880243 I'm considering editing up the three years of text convos I've had with this girl and pitching it to a publisher as the true story of our times. Anyone tried anything this ridiculous before?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 11:37:00 2018 No.10880257 >>10880243 >texting the same girl for three years fuck off normie, normies all text girls every day so why would they care to read yours? and autists dont wanna read some faggy normies shitty texts to some thot, sounds stupid, kys

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 11:37:27 2018 No.10880261

>>10879963
>only happy socializing when it's just me and one or two other people
>literally no one I know can relate to this
>tfw the best time out I've had in the past few years was when four people abruptly bailed on movie night leaving just me and friend

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 11:42:51 2018 No.10880284 >>10880257 Cool I'll do it then.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 11:44:53 2018 No.10880293 >>10880243 if i understand you correctly (you're editing a real relationship into a story), i think everyone's done it. but you're on the right track.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 11:46:14 2018 No.10880296 >>10872487 evola is blowing my mind. he is so bizzare, but then again i don't typically read philosophical texts

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 11:47:07 2018 No.10880298 >>10879874 Retard

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 11:50:20 2018 No.10880312 >>10880293 >thinking the texts u send to chicks are so deep and insightful they should be published as a book dude u must be joking right

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 11:51:05 2018 No.10880317 I broke up with a girl last night because she said art didn't have to be beautiful and that she sympathized with Goneril and Reagan in king Lear (we went I to see a performance yesterday)

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 11:51:47 2018 No.10880320 >>10880317 >because she said art didn't have to be beautiful Spotted the neoclassicuck

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 11:54:17 2018 No.10880332 >>10880298 I mean if you would like to read a thousand years of catholics talking to themselves about jeesus, and some poetry, have at it.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 11:58:35 2018 No.10880348 >>10880312 kek you guys are misunderstanding. I don't think they're deep or insightful. But I think I can spin it as something flashy and innovative.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 11:58:41 2018 No.10880349 >>10880320 Name a good piece of art that isn't beautiful

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 12:00:24 2018 No.10880356
File: 10 KB, 180x275, Thedevilinhills00pave.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

To the thread about finding your lover to be a good writer and losing her to chad that was prematurely pruned before I could get off:

Interestingly enough, although I know these are mostly jibes, I fucked this poet once, she had had these perky tits and I decided to cum on them, and afterwards she laughed because I said I was trying to write in cursive, but I forgot that my spluge was continous, so it all just deflected from her chest into her eyes and was unreadable to me or her anyhow...the main point being that that's how we started talking about poetry and her fiance, who I found out later had a pretty partrician book collection - yet never knew how to coax an orgasm from his soon to be wife by patting a finger on the edges of her asshole. I suspect she doesn't have much of a sex life now, but she was loyal afterwards, even to the point of letting herself not pursue any writing career that would open herself up a bit too much in ways she didn't want the world to hear.

Out of poets and writers, writers are the least faithful in my experience. Published writers being the worst sort.

And people ask why bother reading fiction.... Well, because I like to talk my way into tasting and smelling the essence of a person's being, especially when they're bored and upset that none know that they've published. It's as though you can tell the types that think you should know them somehow, by some acclaim that is merely a bit of their narcissism. I love teasing them, or playing along in their madness, owls come to perch on banisters to speak of their broken promises, ass fucking them into a horrible ecstasy that takes them days to recover from, insulting people in their keepsake pictures for their middleclassness, their undiscript glimmers.

Lovely, lovely, lustily times to swim alongside the discontented artists of this 21st century lads and ladies. You call to yourselves the suffering with a bit of a smirk, and wink and point to the place where you need me to go and I follow into tradgey just as I do into comedy, steady blissful crying mad and hate laughing careless buggerer all mischief, given to dull periods and moments of seized opportunities. Watch yourselves, I might be enjoying this from a different angle yaknow....

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 12:14:45 2018 No.10880413 >>10872487 oink oink, hehehe

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 12:17:59 2018 No.10880422 >>10880349 The Scream

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 12:44:11 2018 No.10880532 File: 139 KB, 718x960, 25299554_1969839416562516_6401031681356499865_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10880356 hey this is a good piece of writing and I enjoyed reading this, just want to let you know that. unless it's pasta.

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 12:56:33 2018 No.10880614
File: 253 KB, 788x1000, woman-sitting-in-an-armchair-1949.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10880349
>These mandarins who 'appreciate' beauty. What is beauty, anyway? There's no such thing. I never 'appreciate,' any more than I 'like.' I love or I hate.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 12:58:52 2018 No.10880634 >>10880312 i thought he was just going to use the conversations. not publish the texts

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 13:55:50 2018 No.10880893 How to stop looking like a soyboy?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:20:22 2018 No.10880985 >>10880893 Describe your appearance and typical outfit. I'll unironically give you some (very) basic fashion tips.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:23:31 2018 No.10880996 >>10880985 5'8" 75kg Athletic build Dark brown hair Half Asian half German

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:26:14 2018 No.10881007 >>10880996 lift, drink milk, and smoke cigars until you are 90kg and half dead

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:27:46 2018 No.10881014 >>10881007 I am unironically doing all of those and trying to get to 90kg

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:28:10 2018 No.10881016 >>10880996 What are you worried about then? Exercise, get a decent haircut, and wear fitting clothes (which currently means slim but not skintight).

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:28:34 2018 No.10881019 >>10880985 The post below yours isn't me, although I am quarter Asian. 6'0", skinny fat, dark brown hair, round face.

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:31:04 2018 No.10881033

>>10881019
>6'0"
Literally the ideal height, lucky bastard.

>skinny fat
Do strength training to develop at least some musculature. Make sure you eat enough.

>dark brown hair, round face
Again, you're lucky. Any halfway decent haircut will work on you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:31:27 2018 No.10881037 >>10881014 >>10881019 Just think, "what would I look (and act, and dress) like if I spent 15 years in some kind of hardcore military unit" then try to achieve that on your own.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:32:01 2018 No.10881040 >>10881007 wait why cigars?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:36:34 2018 No.10881053 >>10881040 Phalic aesthetic

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:37:15 2018 No.10881057 File: 12 KB, 250x250, cs-mwg_view2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10881040 because cigarettes are for plebs, and nicotine boosts testosterone a bit

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:42:07 2018 No.10881070

>>10872487
is it possible there is life and death but there is also living death and living waking death and to be dead and awake
i'm a piece of shit run down worn down college student who looks half homeless didn't think a thing of it didn't think anything wrong with it but i am nothing but ribbons shredded pits of paper and how long will it be life in itself is purgatory and i have been waking dead for longer than i can remember or can i remember i don't think i don't write i don't draw pills, pills are fun but not really because pills don't do much for me, not anymore, not if i take more and more but i'm not ready to take the plunge and overdose even accidentally because i am still just a whiny stupid derelict who might either a.) be emotionally abused or b.) just a stupid manchild whining about emotional abuse because he doesn't know any better, but I DO feel like I'm emotionally abused I read all the signs and I read and and read and it all adds up emotional abuse psychological abuse even physical abuse hahaha "the GANGSTER COMMUNIST PUPPET COMPUTER GODS" i'm starting to sound like a rambling bitch but what AM I SUPPOSED TO DO TO LET OTHERS KNOW HOW MUCH PAIN I'M IN, RIP MY FUCKING CHEST APART because I'm being worn down to nothing and when there's a man or a woman or a family member, brother or sister, who belittles you and wears you down to teeth nubs to the point where you'll do anything they say and fear them at any time they're around you, fear just fear, it almost feels like that scene in the shining where the guy in the bear costume is sucking that dudes dick but I haven't sucked a dick or eaten a clit, I haven't even used the dildo I bought because I HATE YOU, I HATE ALL OF YOU I HATE MYSELF I HATE THIS ROOM I JUST HATE AND HATE AND HATE because how much can a person be cut into sections before the sections turn into fire, incense fire, and none of this is making sense and none of this has made me feel any better and I should turn off the notifications on my phone because antidepressants piss me off

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:43:14 2018 No.10881080

How do I recover from the idiotic notion that we (who the hell is that, by the way?) already understand even the basics of reality; namely simple mechanisms piling up? How do I rediscover the feeling of discovery? I remember what it was like, to like things, to discover things, to experience them. I can't remember when I last had any of those, but I had them!

Who stole them? Should they be punished?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:43:15 2018 No.10881079 >>10881070 p.s. a survivor can escape but a ghost cannot

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:43:57 2018 No.10881083 >>10879906 I will read your poem, and thank you for the great commentary, but can you as I have asked, post 5 lines of milton you think are not great

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:46:14 2018 No.10881093 >>10881057 >cigarettes are for plebs says who?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:47:32 2018 No.10881100 >>10881070 i love francis e dec

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:49:16 2018 No.10881104 >>10881100 MAKE COPIES FOR YOURSELVES

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:50:47 2018 No.10881110 >>10881093 the companies who chemically dry and cure the mass-produced shitty tobacco they put in them

pro-masturbator neet on the br(...) Thu Mar 22 14:52:44 2018 No.10881117

I have no friends and I hate all of you. I fucking hate reading books, I'm serious. I hate writers and readers

all of it is unnecessary, sad, pretentious crap. Im sure there's lots of great books with captivating writing, characters, plots, themes and aesthetic qualities. However, sitting and looking at a text on a piece of paper is so fucking gay. Even the best book on earth is not worth reading. All of you are miserable. Im not saying that happiness should be the main goal of life, however, you gain nothing. The more knowledge you have the less you know. You will never be an expert on any subject. You will never have an opinion worth a shit. All you're doing reading books is wasting time which could be utilised, I don't know jerking it to big tits or running around in a park or something
I hate computer screens, and written text, and talking about things, and thinking about things, and watching films, and discussing deep things. I'm almost 100% sure that I went through all the mental processes the great philosophers went and had the same or similar conclusions to the great questions, on my own, just from being bored and alone. I need real life action
I want to go to acting school and become an actor, and be like those cool dudes that impersonate heroes and inspiring figures, interacting with other amazing individuals and simply enjoying a fun and sexy life

If not for my receding hairline and bitchtits I'd be legit 10/10 hollywood handsome and I have charisma. I speak two foreign languages. Women are wet wherever I go

and I have delusions of grandeur and hear voices sometimes. I miss drugs

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:52:55 2018 No.10881118 >>10881080 Funnily enough, you did discover true reality, which is why you no longer enjoy things. Oh the ironing.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:54:33 2018 No.10881123 >>10881037 I have no idea what this looks like though

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:55:11 2018 No.10881124 >>10881080 stop masturbating

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:58:01 2018 No.10881139

>>10880317
youre an idiot. Just because someone says art doesnt need to be beautiful, doesnt mean they think 99.9% of art should be not beautiful, they are merely implying that a very bad B-horror film made in the 80s can technically be considered art by theoretical definitions even if it is mostly darkness and ugly people running around... good for her though, good riddance

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 14:58:24 2018 No.10881142

>>10881080
But everything that humans think they "know" is constantly being updated and revised, in fact it is a pretty good bet to say basically all scientific and basic knowledge is incorrect in large or small ways. Look into newer thinking on consciousness, quantum mechanics and the nature of reality, space, and time, the entirety of classical reality is being thrown out the window. The deeper I go into these sorts of topics (and even stranger ones) my mind is being rewired, and honestly I have to take breaks because I feel like I am staring into a void that stares back.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 15:00:48 2018 No.10881152 >>10881110 that doesn't scare me

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 15:02:44 2018 No.10881155 >>10873269 I live in New York, write often, and would consider being writing partners

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 15:02:52 2018 No.10881157 >>10881152 ok? I was just saying it's garbage tobacco in cigs compared to cigars;

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 15:04:27 2018 No.10881162 >>10881157 no. really?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 15:10:04 2018 No.10881184 >>10881155 What are your favorite books? What have you been working on lately? See this post for my email: >>10873408

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 15:13:34 2018 No.10881196 >>10881139 I was there so I'm pretty sure I know the context better than you. Don't tell me what she was "merely saying"

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 15:16:31 2018 No.10881204 >>10881118 >Funnily enough, you did discover true reality Do dreams not happen? What are they, if they are so detached that they do not truly even exist?

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 15:28:04 2018 No.10881242

>>10881196
so what was she saying? Your argument is that ugly art should not be allowed to made? Or art that you and your authority group The National Department of The Beauty Of Art Determination deem ugly should be destroyed? Or merely what is deemed an ugly creation cannot be titled with the term Art?

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 15:33:24 2018 No.10881262

>>10881196
also, define Beautiful. When you see a 'something someone created' and you say "that is ugly so you cant call it Art, because Art needs to be beautiful, and that is not beautiful", what is an example of something possibly about it that can be not beautiful?

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 15:33:42 2018 No.10881264

>>10881083
I repudiated that when I said he had rhetoric skill. Listen, he can stand up to schoolboys scanning his metre

That slum|ber'd, wakes|the bitt|er mem|orie
Of what|he was,|what is,|and what|must be

The majesty of certain passages is superhuman, but their effect is finally depressing and therefore evil. The effect of Paradise Lost on sensitive readers is, of course, over-powering. But is the function of poetry to overpower? To be over-powered is to accept spiritual defeat. Shakespeare never overpowers: he raises up.

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 15:38:09 2018 No.10881286

>>10881242
I'm saying that art has to be aesthetically pleasing to have any worth. And I know this goes against what the dull, self-important post-modernist fart sniffers think.
She was saying that the only thing required for art is for it to convey a message.

The argument wasn't about what art can technically be but what good art should be.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 15:40:11 2018 No.10881300 >>10881262 It's subjective, but she says the individual does not have to find any beauty (aesthetically pleasing) in something to consider it a good piece of art.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 15:54:00 2018 No.10881370 >>10881286 i think you'd prefer fashion, or decoration, to art.

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 15:56:03 2018 No.10881378

>>10881286
>>10881300
Is beauty form, shape, color, appearance? Does beauty always naturally immediately create a pleasant feeling? Is every pleasant feeling experienced beauty and due to beauty? If a person experiences pleasant feeling at ugly art? If ugly art has shapes, lines, forms, colors? Is color beautiful? Is all that contains color beautiful? We can use specific mediums as examples to make it easier, painting, literature, sculpture, dance, what else could we pull and make examples from? A clothing model? Can something be beautiful and provoke feelings other than pleasantness, this all riding on your answer to my question of does beauty have anything to do with feelings? Is a square, triangle, circle, beautiful? Requires no feelings, a logical intellectual realization of harmony, balance, perfection? If there is an extremely perfect what you would call a beautiful painting, and then the creator of that painting, created around the sides some ugly doodles that you would consider ugly, would it be not good art? Can any abstract art be good, be beautiful?

If a person says the find aesthetic pleasure in a work of art and you disagree then what?

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 16:01:23 2018 No.10881409

>>10881264
>but their effect is finally depressing and therefore evil. The effect of Paradise Lost on sensitive readers is, of course, over-powering.
why are you so certain this is the case and take away, and not just your own personal relation?

>But is the function of poetry to overpower?
You tell me, who defined the function of poetry?

>To be over-powered is to accept spiritual defeat.
so dont let some words on some paper over power you, but see if you can gain from them, be inspired by them, enjoy them, appreciate them, be awed by them?

>Shakespeare never overpowers
arguable? why are you so certain this is the case and take away, and not just your own personal relation?

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 16:03:06 2018 No.10881413

>>10881378
I regret using the word beauty instead of aesthetically pleasing.
I also did not say that aesthetics is the *only* thing necessary for good art.

>If a person says the find aesthetic pleasure in a work of art and you disagree then what?
That's fine, I agree it is subjective. She was saying that the individual viewing the thing does not have to find it aesthetically pleasing at all for them to consider it to be good art though.

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 16:08:05 2018 No.10881433
File: 94 KB, 606x486, contemplative.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10872487
All life is predicated on the deaths of others. Therefore all life is manifestation of sorrow, and machinations to ignore or abate that sorrow, for naught. The only course of action is resistance of entropy for as long as is possible.

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 16:10:00 2018 No.10881447

>>10881413
>She was saying that the individual viewing the thing does not have to find it aesthetically pleasing at all for them to consider it to be good art though.
Could she give any examples?

Can you give me some examples of things you think are not aesthetically pleasing?

So I see as someone mentioned maybe you, it does get into 'the idea of message'. Your stance is sort of slanted against the possibility of the value of an artist 'trying to say something', for instance political.

As a person can say: "It is not aesthetically pleasing for me to see a dead wounded body", but there can be a painting that has dead wounded bodies making some political statement, and people can say its a good work of art:

But there is a difference between if the bodies are stick figures, and painted by leonardo da vinici, so you can say, even if the sight of dead bodies practically and conceptually is not aesthetically pleasing to me, the artist is so skilled at representation that there is a drawing quality to observe the work.

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 16:25:08 2018 No.10881513
File: 106 KB, 1062x977, Screenshot_2018-03-22-14-15-00_1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10881447
We were originally arguing about brutalist sculpture, which neither of us find aesthetically pleasing.

I have no problem with art conveying a message (in fact it is often very important) -- as long as it is aesthetically pleasing.

Yes, the subject does not have to be beautiful, but the technique and artistry must be aesthetically pleasing. And even then it doesn't have to be classically beautiful. For example Goya's paintings are aesthetically pleasing to me even though they are depicting vulgar things (saturn devouring his son) and are rather dark and the bodies are not perfect.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 16:31:22 2018 No.10881537 >>10881409 Why are you going on like that? What is this? I'm new. Go easy on me

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 16:39:45 2018 No.10881569

>>10881513
>must be aesthetically pleasing
but we already reached the crux of the problem when I think you agreed that its subjective? What a person finds aesthetically pleasing?

So you say art conveying a message can be important. Lets imagine work of art A hardly conveys a message but is slightly above 0 in terms of aesthetically pleasing: and work of art B conveys in your opinion a great message, many messages, but you would deem it below 0, maybe (-1, -2, -4, or all of these trials to determine our understanding of this scenario (work of art B1, work of art B2, work of art B3 is -20 aesthetic pleasure), would you just say there is no need to refer to work of art B as a work of art, or a good work of art, we can merely just call it an interesting message? a work of philosophy? A transferral of information? So this seems to be boiling down to semantics: You seem to think the word "Art" is like a shining crown, and the highest achievement of all 'content creators/substance orientators' is to formulate their materials in such a way that it would warrant the crown being placed on their work, this is what is important. Someone can create a painting with powerful and worthy messages, with lots of depiction and activity, and everyone in the world can say "this is aesthetically unpleasing, therefore this is bad Art, or not good or great Art", and the person can say "...ok...so?? thats just a word...what matters is the creation"

and you say "what matters is that people can stand to and want to look at your creation" and they say "ok, I think my creation can be looked at, and can be found to have aesthetic pleasure, I think everyone else is just a bit silly", and you say "doesnt matter, no one likes your art, its not great art, it is not pleasing to look at"

ok and now I think I thought of a cool example that I tried to express with painting, but see it works better with film. A film can be a great work of art? This is the great example because film contains a lot, and has a lot of time, changes and differences. Does over 50% of the running time of a film need to be democratically (or aristocratically) agreed to be aesthetically pleasurable for the total film to be considered a great work of art? Or ideally, if you were in power, would you cut the 50% that was aesthetically unpleasing?

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 16:41:18 2018 No.10881578

>>10881537
you started it by attacking my boy Milton. I merely asked questions about your responses to further the discussion to understand where you were coming from. You made statements which appeared to be convinced and certained and believed, and haughty and complex and assumptive, I merely asked questions about those statements.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 16:41:47 2018 No.10881582 >>10879965 N-no idea who that is, Anon. I wrote a bunch of pretentious nonsense to make fun of my friend's friend's master's thesis.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 16:42:20 2018 No.10881585 >>10879653 Not noises. I just can't make the words flow or describe everything well enough. I'm a brainlet, though.

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 17:03:33 2018 No.10881686

>>10881569
If you have a message to send, it benefits by being aesthetically pleasing in that it is more enjoyable to receive the message. The difference between art and philosophy or art and information transfer is the aesthetics (of course it's a continuum no an either/or type thing). For example I would consider the writing of Nietzsche and Kierkegaard to be art and that of Kant to be merely philosophy.
I personally have no interest in philosophy for philosophy's sake, but I have read and enjoyed Nietzsche and Kierkegaard. A few pages in I unregretfully gave up Kant.

I don't know too much about film but I see how it works for your example. Considering the length a film can contain some filler, but there should be some aesthetic scenes (the important ones) and maybe a kind of aesthetic overtone (?). For example if blade runner 2049 did not have the surreal aesthetic it had I think it would have been a bad movie. But as it is I liked it.

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 17:27:19 2018 No.10881803

>>10881578
Alright, but you were asking the same questions and talking unnaturally. And really Milton started it by going after Skelton.

>why are you so certain this is the case and take away, and not just your own personal relation?
Do you disagree? We read him as a class at Charterhouse. Actually it's usually said as a praise. Of course these are all just my thoughts, though I know my Milton better than most literary critics, I can say so without boasting because most know very little about him.

According to Milton himself, Paradise Lost was communicated to him by what he regarded as supernatural agency. To put the matter in simple terms so as not to get involved in the language of the morbid psychologist: it was not the Holy Ghost that dictated Paradise Lost, the poem which has caused more unhappiness, to the young especially, than any other in the language, but Satan the protagonist, demon of pride.

>You tell me, who defined the function of poetry?
Calliope probably.

>so dont let some words on some paper over power you, but see if you can gain from them, be inspired by them, enjoy them, appreciate them, be awed by them?
The answer to this is confusing but, if you realize that poetry is a sort of magic, as many poets in the past have admitted, you can't avoid being overpowered when someone turns the machine guns on an innocent crowd. The point of verse is to put the reader under, hypnotizing them into a receptive state after all.

>arguable? why are you so certain this is the case and take away, and not just your own personal relation?
You don't really disagree with me here.

If I've said anything out of order, forgive me.

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 17:33:12 2018 No.10881830

>>10872487
I don't care about race and gender in art but this is a gen-ed course at uni and I have no choice but to sit here and deal with it. I ALREADY LEARNED ABOUT HORATII!! Art is awesome, this is not.
Also /lit is comfy as fuck when I'm trying to escape anybody got a good book I can add to my reading list?

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 18:09:08 2018 No.10881992

>>10881803
One can enjoy and appreciate and gain from Shakespeare and Milton both wouldn't you say? Whats the deal with the feeling of the need of the ranking and believing one feels power by putting down a dead great genius? But anyway, where would you rank Paradise Lost in terms of greatest poems ever written, would it be in your top 200? top 1000? Would you have different lists of: My 100 Favorite Poems
and
The 100 Greatest Poems?
What ever poems speak to a person and tells them they are their favorite, does that person automatically must consider them as the greatest poems ever written? And if a poem does not speak to you, if you do not like it, must it be not great?

Forgive me for putting you on edge andor making you feel uneasy, I like you and your style and intrigue and I do like your poem and would wish to read more of your writing.

Do you really think it is the duty of the Poet to make sure every school boy is not to be made to feel overpowered by any of their writing? To me it appears Milton built a mountain, scaled it, while taking pictures the entire way and of the view from the summit, and returned to earth with those pictures to share, and it is up to everyone else whether or not they determine those images are too brightly blinding or boring and bare, but yeah.

Anyway, who do you consider great poets, besides Shakespeare, I really like him, and have never read paradise lost, just skimmed through a copy I found online and understand what you mean and understand as ive skimmed before the criticisms of boredom and horse beating, but I hardly saw anything that was not top notch highest possible perfect craft and striving for human expression and transcendence. I admit there is a stiffness, a lack of long melodic line maybe, but the language and texture of words and wording, and all the obscure references (showing off for his and our pleasure, his vast knowing), to me is interesting and pleasant and inspiring and motivating.

Maybe partly you are suggesting it appears he is unapproachable, humorless, inhumane in his ceaseless prolific virtuosity, casts a cold dark shadow on color and play and fun, ruins poetry, breaks poetry, finishes poetry, I know this is not entirely what you mean, but maybe in a direction of what you mean, as your reference to shakespaere, I interpret to be in the direction of, playfulness, humor, speaking directly warmly to his audience? Instead of only building oneself up and up as the largest most colorfully most feathered peacock

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 19:30:11 2018 No.10882330 I want to be a cattle drover

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 19:31:27 2018 No.10882334 >>10881830 you should leave or read: Simulacra and Simulation

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 19:58:11 2018 No.10882450

>>10881992
>One can enjoy and appreciate and gain from Shakespeare and Milton both wouldn't you say?
Well, people do. Lots of people like bad poets. Robert Graves once said 'The remarkable thing about Shakespeare is that he really is very good, in spite of all the people who say he is very good.'

>Whats the deal with the feeling of the need of the ranking and believing one feels power by putting down a dead great genius?
I'm not ranking anyone. I'm after no feeling of power. But you can't blame someone for wanting to overthrow false gods.

>where would you rank Paradise Lost in terms of greatest poems ever written, would it be in your top 200? top 1000?
God knows.

>Would you have different lists of: My 100 Favorite Poems and The 100 Greatest Poems?
I don't see why I would.

>What ever poems speak to a person and tells them they are their favorite, does that person automatically must consider them as the greatest poems ever written? And if a poem does not speak to you, if you do not like it, must it be not great?
To answer your first question, I'd say yes. And if a poem doesn't speak to you, it probably wasn't written for you. I'm taking 'speak to' to mean understand since all poems speak to you in a literal way. There are scientific treaties only a scientist would understand, the terms would be beyond you or me, poetry is the same way. You can't blame a poem if you don't understand it, unless the fault lies clearly in the careless or illogical use of English prose, which has certain agreed semantic principles. We all know when the Emperor's wearing no clothes.

>Do you really think it is the duty of the Poet to make sure every school boy is not to be made to feel overpowered by any of their writing?
But it's written to be overpowering.
A better analogy would be; he saw the mountain, his eye was seduced by the mazes and quaint curves, but he intellectually rejected it as wanton.

There aren't as many great poets as you'd think. Skelton and Chaucer were. Homer was too. And Baudelaire, Villon, Cummings, and Graves to name a few more.

His craft and expression are fine, it's the subject of his poetry. His poetic sense. It seems like you like Milton for non-poetic reasons, which is alright, but that's what it is. For some, a Milton poem isn't obscure. And lots of people feel at home in a mid-16th century English castle or a late-18th century Dublin thieves' kitchen and don't find The Epitaph on Clere or The Night Before Larry Was Stretched obscure.

Shakespeare sinned greatly against current morality, but he loved greatly. Milton's sins were petty by comparison, but his lack of love, for all his rhetorical championship of love against lust, makes him detestable.

>Instead of only building oneself up and up as the largest most colorfully most feathered peacock
That's what it comes to.

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 20:31:43 2018 No.10882606

>>10881992
>>10881803
They heard, and were abasht, and up they sprung
Upon the wing, as when men wont to watch
On duty, sleeping found by whom they dread,
Rouse and bestir themselves ere well awake.
Nor did they not perceave the evil plight
In which they were, or the fierce pains not feel;
Yet to thir Generals Voyce they soon obeyd
Innumerable. As when the potent Rod
Of Amrams Son in Egypts evill day
Wav'd round the Coast, up call'd a pitchy cloud
Of Locusts, warping on the Eastern Wind,
That ore the Realm of impious Pharaoh hung
Like Night, and darken'd all the Land of Nile:
So numberless were those bad Angels seen
Hovering on wind under the Cope of Hell
'Twixt upper, nether, and surrounding Fires;
Till, as a signal giv'n, th' uplifted Spear
Of thir great Sultan waving to direct
Thir course, in even ballance down they light
On the firm brimstone, and fill all the Plain;
A multitude, like which the populous North
Pour'd never from her frozen loyns, to pass
Rhene or the Danaw, when her barbarous Sons
Came like a Deluge on the South, and spread
Beneath Gibralter to the Lybian sands.
Forthwith from every Squadron and each Band
The Heads and Leaders thither hast where stood
Thir great Commander; Godlike shapes and forms
Excelling human, Princely Dignities,
And Powers that earst in Heaven sat on Thrones;
Though of thir Names in heav'nly Records now
Be no memorial blotted out and ras'd
By thir Rebellion, from the Books of Life.
Nor had they yet among the Sons of Eve
Got them new Names, till wandring ore the Earth,
Through Gods high sufferance for the tryal of man,
By falsities and lyes the greatest part
Of Mankind they corrupted to forsake
God thir Creator, and th' invisible
Glory of him that made them, to transform

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 20:33:05 2018 No.10882614

>>10881992
>>10881803
Oft to the Image of a Brute, adorn'd
With gay Religions full of Pomp and Gold,
And Devils to adore for Deities:
Then were they known to men by various Names,
And various Idols through the Heathen World.
Say, Muse, the Names then known, who first, who last,
Rous'd from the slumber, on that fiery Couch,
At thir great Emperors call, as next in worth
Came singly where he stood on the bare strand,
While the promiscuous croud stood yet aloof?
The chief were those who from the Pit of Hell
Roaming to seek thir prey on earth, durst fix
Thir Seats long after next the Seat of God,
Thir Altars by his Altar, Gods ador'd
Among the Nations round, and durst abide
Jehovah thundring out of Sion, thron'd
Between the Cherubim; yea, often plac'd
Within his Sanctuary it self thir Shrines,
Abominations; and with cursed things
His holy Rites, and solemn Feasts profan'd,
And with thir darkness durst affront his light.
First Moloch, horrid King besmear'd with blood
Of human sacrifice, and parents tears,
Though for the noyse of Drums and Timbrels loud
Thir childrens cries unheard, that past through fire
To his grim Idol. Him the Ammonite
Worshipt in Rabba and her watry Plain,
In Argob and in Basan, to the stream
Of utmost Arnon. Not content with such
Audacious neighbourhood, the wisest heart
Of Solomon he led by fraud to build
His Temple right against the Temple of God
On that opprobrious Hill, and made his Grove
The pleasant Vally of Hinnom, Tophet thence
And black Gehenna call'd, the Type of Hell.
Next Chemos, th' obscene dread of Moabs Sons,
From Aroar to Nebo, and the wild
Of Southmost Abarim; in Hesebon
And Heronaim, Seons Realm, beyond
The flowry Dale of Sibma clad with Vines,
And Eleale to th' Asphaltick Pool.
Peor his other Name, when he entic'd
Israel in Sittim on thir march from Nile
To do him wanton rites, which cost them woe.
Yet thence his lustful Orgies he enlarg'd
Even to that Hill of scandal, but the Grove
Of Moloch homicide, lust hard by hate;
Till good Josiah drove them hence to Hell.
With these cam they, who from the bordring flood
Of old Euphrates to the Brook that parts
Egypt from Syrian ground, had general names
Of Baalim and Ashtaroth, those male,
These Feminine. For Spirits when they please
Can either Sex assume, or both; so soft
And uncompounded is thir Essence pure,
Nor ti'd or manacl'd with joynt or limb,
Nor founded on the brittle strength of bones,
Like cumbrous flesh; but in what shape they choose
Dilated or condens't, bright or obscure,
Can execute thir aerie purposes,
And works of love or enmity fulfill.
For those the Race of Israel oft forsook
Thir living strength, and unfrequented left
His righteous Altar, bowing lowly down

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 20:34:10 2018 No.10882619

To bestial Gods; for which thir heads as low
Bow'd down in Battel, sunk before the Spear
Of despicable foes. With these in troop
Came Astoreth, whom the Phoenicians call'd
Astarte, Queen of Heav'n, with crescent Horns;
To whose bright Image nightly by the Moon
Sidonian Virgins paid thir Vows and Songs,
In Sion also not unsung, where stood
Her Temple on th' offensive Mountain, built
By that uxorious King, whose heart though large,
Beguil'd by fair Idolatresses, fell
To idols foul. Thammuz came next behind,
Whose annual wound in Lebanon allur'd
The Syrian Damsels to lament his fate
In amorous dittyes all a Summers day,
While smooth Adonis from his native Rock
Ran purple to the Sea, suppos'd with blood
Of Thammuz yearly wounded; the Love-tale
Infected Sions daughters with like heat,
Whose wanton passions in the sacred Porch
Ezekial saw, when by the Vision led
His eye survay'd the dark Idolatries
Of alienated Judah. Next came one
Who mourn'd in earnest, when the Captive Ark
Maim'd his brute Image, head and hands lopt off
In his own Temple, on the grunsel edge,
Where he fell flat, and sham'd his Worshipers:
Dagon his Name, Sea Monster, upward Man
And downward Fish: yet had his Temple high
Rear'd in Azotus, dreaded through the Coast
Of Palestine, in Gath and Ascalon
And Accaron and Gaza's frontier bounds.
Him follow'd Rimmon, whose delightful Seat
Was fair Damascus, on the fertil Banks
Of Abbana and Pharphar, lucid streams.
He also against the house of God was bold:
A Leper once he lost and gain'd a King,
Ahaz his sottish Conquerour, whom he drew
Gods Altar to disparage and displace
For one of Syrian mode, whereon to burn
His odious offrings, and adore the Gods
Whom he had vanquisht. After these appear'd
A crew who under Names of old Renown,
Osiris, Isis, Orus and thir Train
With monstrous shapes and sorceries abus'd
Fanatic Egypt and her Priests, to seek
Thir wandring Gods Disguis'd in brutish forms
Rather then human. Nor did Israel scape
Th' infection when thir borrow'd Gold compos'd
The Calf in Oreb: and the Rebel King
Doubl'd that sin in Bethel and in Dan,
Lik'ning his Maker to the Grazed Ox,
Jehovah, who in one Night when he pass'd
From Egypt marching, equal'd with one stroke
Both her first born and all her bleating Gods
Belial came last, then whom a Spirit more lewd
Fell not from Heaven, or more gross to love
Vice for it self: To him no Temple stood
Or Altar smoak'd; yet who more oft then hee
In Temples and at Altars, when the Priest
Turns Atheist, as did Ely's Sons, who fill'd
With lust and violence the house of God.
In Courts and Palaces he also Reigns
And in luxurious Cities, where the noyse
Of riot ascends above thir loftiest Towrs,
And injury and outrage: And when Night
Darkens the Streets, then wander forth the Sons
Of Belial, flown with insolence and wine.
Witness the Streets of Sodom, and that night
In Gibeah, when the hospitable door

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 20:35:22 2018 No.10882629

Expos'd a Matron to avoid worse rape.
These were the prime in order and in might;
The rest were long to tell, though far renown'd,
Th' Ionian Gods, of Javans issue held
Gods, yet confest later then Heav'n and Earth
Thir boasted Parents; Titan Heav'ns first born
With his enormous brood, and birthright seis'd
By younger Saturn, he from mightier Jove
His own and Rhea's Son like measure found;
So Jove usurping reign'd: these first in Creet
And Ida known, thence on the Snowy top
Of cold Olympus rul'd the middle Air
Thir highest Heav'n; or on the Delphian Cliff,
Or in Dodona, and through all the bounds
Of Doric Land; or who with Saturn old
Fled over Adria to th' Hesperian Fields,
And ore the Celtic roam'd the utmost Isles.
All these and more came flocking; but with looks
Down cast and damp, yet such wherein appear'd
Obscure some glimps of joy, to have found thir chief
Not in despair, to have found themselves not lost
In loss itself; which on his count'nance cast
Like doubtful hue: but he his wonted pride
Soon recollecting, with high words, that bore
Semblance of worth, not substance, gently rais'd
Thir fanting courage, and dispel'd thir fears.
Then strait commands that at the warlike sound
Of Trumpets loud and Clarions be upreard
His mighty Standard; that proud honour claim'd
Azazel as his right, a Cherube tall:
Who forthwith from the glittering Staff unfurld
Th' Imperial Ensign, which full high advanc't
Shon like a Meteor streaming to the Wind
With Gemms and Golden lustre rich imblaz'd,
Seraphic arms and Trophies: all the while
Sonorous mettal blowing Martial sounds:
At which the universal Host upsent
A shout that tore Hells Concave, and beyond
Frighted the Reign of Chaos and old Night.
All in a moment through the gloom were seen
Ten thousand Banners rise into the Air
With Orient Colours waving: with them rose
A Forrest huge of Spears: and thronging Helms
Appear'd, and serried Shields in thick array
Of depth immeasurable: Anon they move
In perfect Phalanx to the Dorian mood
Of Flutes and soft Recorders; such as rais'd
To hight of noblest temper Hero's old
Arming to Battel, and in stead of rage
Deliberate valour breath'd, firm and unmov'd
With dread of death to flight or foul retreat,
Nor wanting power to mitigate and swage
With solemn touches, troubl'd thoughts, and chase
Anguish and doubt and fear and sorrow and pain
From mortal or immortal minds.
Thus they
Breathing united force with fixed thought
Mov'd on in silence to soft Pipes that charm'd
Thir painful steps o're the burnt soyle; and now
Advanc't in view, they stand, a horrid Front
Of dreadful length and dazling Arms, in guise
Of Warriers old with order'd Spear and Shield,
Awaiting what command thir mighty Chief
Had to impose: He through the armed Files
Darts his experienc't eye, and soon traverse
The whole Battalion views, thir order due,
Thir visages and stature as of Gods,
Thir number last he summs.

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 20:36:25 2018 No.10882632

And now his heart
Distends with pride, and hardning in his strength
Glories: For never since created man,
Met such imbodied force, as nam'd with these
Could merit more then that small infantry
Warr'd on by Cranes: though all the Giant brood
Of Phlegra with th' Heroic Race were joyn'd
That fought at Theb's and Ilium, on each side
Mixt with auxiliar Gods; and what resounds
In Fable or Romance of Uthers Sons
Begirt with British and Armoric Knights;
And all who since Baptiz'd or Infidel
Jousted in Aspramont or Montalban,
Damasco, or Marocco, or Trebisond
Or whom Biserta sent from Afric shore
When Charlemain with all his Peerage fell
By Fontarabbia. Thus far these beyond
Compare of mortal prowess, yet observ'd
Thir dread commander: he above the rest
In shape and gesture proudly eminent
Stood like a Towr; his form had yet not lost
All her Original brightness, nor appear'd
Less then Arch Angel ruind, and th' excess
Of Glory obscur'd; As when the Sun new ris'n
Looks through the Horizontal misty Air
Shorn of his Beams, or from behind the Moon
In dim Eclips disastrous twilight sheds
On half the Nations, and with fear of change
Perplexes Monarch. Dark'n'd so, yet shon
Above them all th' Arch Angel; but his face
Deep scars of Thunder had intrencht, and care
Sat on his faded cheek, but under Browes
Of dauntless courage, and considerate Pride
Waiting revenge: cruel his eye, but cast
Signs of remorse and passion to behold
The fellows of his crime, the followers rather
(Far other once beheld in bliss) condemn'd
For ever now to have thir lot in pain,
Millions of Spirits for his fault amerc't
Of Heav'n, and from Eternal Splendors flung
For his revolt, yet faithfull how they stood,
Thir Glory witherd. As when Heavens Fire
Hath scath'd the Forrest Oaks, or Mountain Pines,
With singed top thir stately growth though bare
Stands on the blasted Heath. He now prepar'd
To speak; whereat thir doubl'd Ranks they bend
From wing to wing, and half enclose him round
With all his Peers: attention held them mute.
Thrice he assayd, and thrice in spight of scorn,
Tears such as Angels weep, burst forth: at last
Words interwove with sighs found out thir way.

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 20:56:56 2018 No.10882730

>>10882450
Is there a Baudelaire (poem I can find in english online) and Cummings poem that can stand next to this:
>>10882606
>>10882614
(etc)

You seem to dislike his apparent obsession, or paradise losts apparent obsession with morality, as if everything is framed in that as being most important and everything else comes second or far last (similarly maybe to how Nabokov appears to place Aesthetics above all else in literature (I dont want to have to think and care about that stuff, I just want to be pleasantly entertained in blissful fantasy, or relate with the writers feelings of depression and anger and hatred and mopeing and also maybe toss the strong idea of God in there, (you want to experience secular beauty and indulgent sensations and be carefree and not think of morals or ethics or God, if Milton wrote more about butterflies, flowers, food, suffering, desiring sex, heartbreak, feeling miserable, hating his parents, struggling with his homework, a middle class hero who works at a bakery or something).

I do appreciate your response, and I am not trying to poke fun, just trying to probe deeper, everything you say if I could accept as is and understand I would not need to ask any of these follow ups.

In what way did Milton lack love? Reading the quoted excerpts of text, the poetic voice is full of heady passion and love of life and the world, extreme, every word and line is screaming in ecstasy of obsession of life and the world, the love and celebration of its subtleties and complexities and varieties.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 21:10:51 2018 No.10882788 Fuck, I should go to lit and see if I can find someone to send me some pdfs of Hebrew literature in Hebrew

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 21:11:25 2018 No.10882791 I really like "The Jabberwocky" by Lewis Carroll. Just wish I had a vorpal blade......

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 22 21:29:33 2018 No.10882867 >>10881433 First book of My Struggle, go read it. Not Hitler.

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 22:16:27 2018 No.10883056

>>10882730
I mentioned French and English poets because those are two languages I'm fluent in. But I imagine you can find an English copy of Flowers of Evil online.

>You seem to dislike his apparent obsession, or paradise losts apparent obsession with morality
I dislike his obsession for posterity. For Milton, fame was no joke, it was an obsession (as appears throughout the Silvae, especially in his letter to Manso, and in Lycidas). He never loved anyone, after the death of his friend Charles Diodati, except himself. He was obsessed by thoughts of his own fame, look at his reaction to Lycidas' drowning: 'Heavens, it might have been myself! Cut down before my prime, cheated of immortal fame!'

It's alright if you don't understand. If you're Miltonist; be Miltonist.

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 22:37:07 2018 No.10883171

>>10883056
How many lines of writing did he write?

And how many lines of writing were about his obsession of fame?

Great artists use the thought of the long life of their works as motivation to make them better.

You appear to be as a low gossiper, concerned with such trivialities. THE GREAT WORK OF ART FOOL. who the fuck cares about if he cared about his work of art being cherished or celebrated or loved or remembered by millions of people for 100s of years. Why would he not want that, why should he not want that, why would you care, and why would you blame him for that. This is 1000s of times more of a disturbing character flaw in your self than anything about him.

Do you even know if the poetic voice in Lycidas is Milton writing as Milton or if it is a character?

"Though commonly considered to be a monody, ‘Lycidas’ in fact features two distinct voices, the first of which belongs to the uncouth swain (or shepherd). The work opens with the swain, who finds himself grieving for the death of his friend, Lycidas, in an idyllic pastoral world. In his article entitled "Belief and Disbelief in Lycidas," Lawrence W. Hyman states that the swain is experiencing a "loss of faith in a world order that allows death to strike a young man".[7] Similarly, Lauren Shohet asserts that the swain is projecting his grief upon the classical images of the pastoral setting at this point in the elegy.[8]

Throughout the poem, the swain utilizes both Christian and Pagan concepts, and mentally locates Lycidas’ body in both settings, according to Russel Fraser.[9] Examples of this are the mention of Death as an animate being, the "Sisters of the Sacred Well," Orpheus, the blind Fury that struck Lycidas down, and the scene in which Lycidas is imagined to have become a regional deity (a "genius of the shore") after drowning. Since Lycidas, like King, drowned, there is no body to be found, and the absence of the corpse is of great concern to the swain.[9]

Ultimately, the swain’s grief and loss of faith are conquered by a "belief in immortality".[10] Many scholars have pointed out that there is very little logical basis within the poem for this conclusion, but that a reasonable process is not necessary for 'Lycidas' to be effective.[11] Fraser will argue that Milton’s voice intrudes briefly upon the swain’s to tell a crowd of fellow swains that Lycidas is not in fact dead (here one sees belief in immortality). This knowledge is inconsistent with the speaker’s "uncouth" character.[12]"

what a fucking dummy you are, dont read any more poetry you crass lass

>this writer is so epicly redicously profound and superhuman which made me feel so insignificant and unworthy of writing I perform the good cause of rallying against them

Anonymous Thu Mar 22 23:14:00 2018 No.10883382
File: 58 KB, 551x190, robert graves.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10883171
I'm just responding to your questions. There's a lot more to Milton's character.

>And how many lines of writing were about his obsession of fame?
You misunderstood me here. Fame is the reason Milton wrote any of his poems.

>Great artists use the thought of the long life of their works as motivation to make them better.
I can't think of any great artist who did this, can you? It's just suspect as writing for contemporary fame. No good poet had designs on their posterity. Robert Graves said it was 'to weep on your own grave'.

'Surely no man could have fancied that he read Lycidas with pleasure, had he not known the author.' So said Dr Johnson, you must have missed that when you skimmed the Wikipedia entry.

>what a fucking dummy you are, dont read any more poetry you crass lass
Bad manners.

>this writer is so epicly redicously profound and superhuman which made me feel so insignificant and unworthy of writing I perform the good cause of rallying against them
But I feel this way about Shakespeare and I'm not rallying against him.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 23 00:28:22 2018 No.10883670 >>10883382 >Fame is the reason Milton wrote any of his poems. I bet you are one dimensional and binary enough to believe this

Anonymous Fri Mar 23 00:30:22 2018 No.10883680

>>10883382
>Dr Johnson
>had he not known the author.
So you have found a group of famed men who share the same envy as your self, kudos. They were forced to read paradise lost in school and it the anxiety of influence/bored to death inappropriately touched their spirits, boohoo. Noone intellectually honest could read the excerpts of paradise lost in this thread a nearly infinitely small fraction of the text, and think John Milton deserves any antipraise.

Graves: forget him, look at me! celebrate me! I am better!

>I can't think of any great artist who did this, can you?
every great artist whether they told you about it or not, whether they thought about it or not

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 23 00:35:29 2018 No.10883698 >>10883382 Whats your favorite Cummings poem? Whats your favorite Graves poem?

Anonymous Fri Mar 23 00:55:59 2018 No.10883784

>>10883664
More likely they were forced to read the Iliad, but you don't see them guying Homer.

>Noone intellectually honest could read the excerpts of paradise lost in this thread a nearly infinitely small fraction of the text, and not think John Milton deserves any antipraise.
They don't know any better. No one will enjoy it. I hope some of them will understand me.

>every great artist whether they told you about it or not, whether they thought about it or not
This is further than you have authority to go I think

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 23 00:57:28 2018 No.10883792 >>10883698 I don't really have one

Anonymous Fri Mar 23 01:00:36 2018 No.10883804

>>10883784
>but you don't see them guying Homer.
obviously because Homer did not belittle them and make their skills, talents, potentials, abilities appear insignificant, unworthy, derivative, and useless. You are not familiar with subpar and average people praising subpar and average things because they relate to them? I am by no means claiming Homer is as such, but even those excerpts in this thread are much more rich and decadent (oooOoooo that means we can hate on him right!!!) and chock full of variety, spice and flavor, subtly and symbol, vastness, and well modernity.

This isnt an argument we are having, you are not saying anything worthwhile, I am not saying anything at all. Your opinion about Milton means less than nothing, the totality of your writing will likely be nowhere near as significant or special than a stanza of good ol Johnny boys

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 23 01:10:51 2018 No.10883833 File: 77 KB, 631x574, 224564265426.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10883784 >>10883382 interesting and relevant if nothing else

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 23 01:17:12 2018 No.10883848 >>10883784 >>10883382 https://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Texts/milton.html http://www.bartleby.com/library/prose/2895.html

Anonymous Fri Mar 23 01:23:17 2018 No.10883869

>>10883848
>>10883784
>>10883382
From: http://www.bartleby.com/library/prose/2895.html

A Study of Milton’s ‘Paradise Lost’
By Samuel Johnson

"MILTON’S little pieces may be dispatched without much anxiety; a greater work calls for greater care. I am now to examine ‘Paradise Lost’; a poem which considered with respect to design may claim the first place, and with respect to performance the second, among the productions of the human mind. 1
By the general consent of critics the first praise of genius is due to the writer of an epic poem, as it requires an assemblage of all the powers which are singly sufficient for other compositions. Poetry is the art of uniting pleasure with truth, by calling imagination to the help of reason. Epic poetry undertakes to teach the most important truths by the most pleasing precepts, and therefore relates some great event in the most affecting manner. History must supply the writer with the rudiments of narration, which he must improve and exalt by a nobler art, must animate by dramatic energy, and diversify by retrospection and anticipation; morality must teach him the exact bounds and different shades of vice and virtue; from policy and the practice of life he has to learn the discriminations of character and the tendency of the passions, either single or combined; and physiology must supply him with illustrations and images. To put these materials to poetical use, is required an imagination capable of painting nature and realizing fiction. Nor is he yet a poet till he has attained the whole extension of his language, distinguished all the delicacies of phrase and all the colors of words, and learned to adjust their different sounds to all the varieties of metrical modulation. 2
Bossu is of opinion that the poet’s first work is to find a moral, which his fable is afterwards to illustrate and establish. This seems to have been the process only of Milton: the moral of other poems is incidental and consequent; in Milton’s only it is essential and intrinsic. His purpose was the most useful and the most arduous: “to vindicate the ways of God to man;” to show the reasonableness of religion, and the necessity of obedience to the Divine Law."

Anonymous Fri Mar 23 01:27:34 2018 No.10883882

>>10883869
" To convey this moral there must be a fable; a narration artfully constructed, so as to excite curiosity and surprise expectation. In this part of his work Milton must be confessed to have equaled every other poet. He has involved in his account of the Fall of Man the events which preceded and those that were to follow it; he has interwoven the whole system of theology with such propriety that every part appears to be necessary; and scarcely any recital is wished shorter for the sake of quickening the progress of the main action. 4
The subject of an epic poem is naturally an event of great importance. That of Milton is not the destruction of a city, the conduct of a colony, or the foundation of an empire. His subject is the fate of worlds, the revolutions of heaven and of earth; rebellion against the Supreme King, raised by the highest order of created beings; the overthrow of their host, and the punishment of their crime; the creation of a new race of reasonable creatures; their original happiness and innocence, their forfeiture of immortality, and their restoration to hope and peace…. 5
Of the probable and the marvelous, two parts of a vulgar epic poem which immerge the critic in deep consideration, the ‘Paradise Lost’ requires little to be said. It contains the history of a miracle,—of creation and redemption; it displays the power and the mercy of the Supreme Being: the probable therefore is marvelous, and the marvelous is probable. The substance of the narrative is truth; and as truth allows no choice, it is, like necessity, superior to rule. To the accidental or adventitious parts, as to everything human, some slight exceptions may be made; but the main fabric is immovably supported…. 6
To the completeness or integrity of the design nothing can be objected: it has distinctly and clearly what Aristotle requires—a beginning, a middle, and an end. There is perhaps no poem of the same length from which so little can be taken without apparent mutilation. Here are no funeral games, nor is there any long description of a shield. The short digressions at the beginning of the third, seventh, and ninth books might doubtless be spared; but superfluities so beautiful who would take away? or who does not wish that the author of the Iliad had gratified succeeding ages with a little knowledge of himself? Perhaps no passages are more attentively read than those extrinsic paragraphs; and since the end of poetry is pleasure, that cannot be unpoetical with which all are pleased."

-DR. Johnson (quotable authority figure to prove points)

Anonymous Fri Mar 23 01:31:31 2018 No.10883890

The questions whether the action of the poem be strictly one, whether the poem can be properly termed heroic, and who is the hero, are raised by such readers as draw their principles of judgment rather from books than from reason. Milton, though he entitled ‘Paradise Lost’ only a “poem,” yet calls it himself “heroic song.” Dryden petulantly and indecently denies the heroism of Adam, because he was overcome; but there is no reason why the hero should not be unfortunate, except established practice, since success and virtue do not go necessarily together. Cato is the hero of Lucan; but Lucan’s authority will not be suffered by Quintilian to decide. However, if success be necessary, Adam’s deceiver was at last crushed; Adam was restored to his Maker’s favor, and therefore may securely resume his human rank. 8
After the scheme and fabric of the poem, must be considered its component parts, the sentiments and the diction. 9
The sentiments, as expressive of manners or appropriated to characters, are for the greater part unexceptionably just. Splendid passages containing lessons of morality or precepts of prudence occur seldom. Such is the original formation of this poem, that as it admits no human manners till the Fall, it can give little assistance to human conduct. Its end is to raise the thoughts above sublunary cares or pleasures. Yet the praise of that fortitude with which Abdiel maintained his singularity of virtue against the scorn of multitudes may be accommodated to all times; and Raphael’s reproof of Adam’s curiosity after the planetary motions, with the answer returned by Adam, may be confidently opposed to any rule of life which any poet has delivered. 10
The thoughts which are occasionally called forth in the progress are such as could only be produced by an imagination in the highest degree fervid and active, to which materials were supplied by incessant study and unlimited curiosity. The heat of Milton’s mind may be said to sublimate his learning, to throw off into his work the spirit of science, unmingled with its grosser parts. 11
He had considered creation in its whole extent, and his descriptions are therefore learned. He had accustomed his imagination to unrestrained indulgence, and his conceptions therefore were extensive. The characteristic quality of his poem is sublimity. He sometimes descends to the elegant, but his element is the great. He can occasionally invest himself with grace; but his natural port is gigantic loftiness. He can please when pleasure is required; but it is his peculiar power to astonish.

Anonymous Fri Mar 23 01:35:48 2018 No.10883902

He seems to have been well acquainted with his own genius, and to know what it was that nature had bestowed upon him more bountifully than upon others,—the power of displaying the vast, illuminating the splendid, enforcing the awful, darkening the gloomy, and aggravating the dreadful: he therefore chose a subject on which too much could not be said, on which he might tire his fancy without the censure of extravagance. 13
The appearances of nature, and the occurrences of life, did not satiate his appetite of greatness. To paint things as they are, requires a minute attention, and employs the memory rather than the fancy. Milton’s delight was to sport in the wide regions of possibility; reality was a scene too narrow for his mind. He sent his faculties out upon discovery, into worlds where only imagination can travel, and delighted to form new modes of existence, and furnish sentiment and action to superior beings; to trace the counsels of hell, or accompany the choirs of heaven. 14
But he could not be always in other worlds; he must sometimes revisit earth, and tell of things visible and known. When he cannot raise wonder by the sublimity of his mind, he gives delight by its fertility…. 15
The ancient epic poets, wanting the light of Revelation, were very unskillful teachers of virtue; their principal characters may be great, but they are not amiable. The reader may rise from their works with a greater degree of active or passive fortitude, and sometimes of prudence; but he will be able to carry away few precepts of justice, and none of mercy. From the Italian writers it appears that the advantages of even Christian knowledge may be possessed in vain. Ariosto’s pravity is generally known; and though the ‘Deliverance of Jerusalem’ may be considered as a sacred subject, the poet has been very sparing of moral instruction. In Milton every line breathes sanctity of thought and purity of manners, except when the train of the narration requires the introduction of the rebellious spirits; and even they are compelled to acknowledge their subjection to God, in such a manner as excites reverence and confirms piety. 16
Of human beings there are but two; but those two are the parents of mankind, venerable before their fall for dignity and innocence, and amiable after it for repentance and submission. In the first state their affection is tender without weakness, and their piety sublime without presumption. When they have sinned, they show how discord begins in mutual frailty, and how it ought to cease in mutual forbearance; how confidence of the Divine favor is forfeited by sin, and how hope of pardon may be obtained by penitence and prayer. A state of innocence we can only conceive, if indeed in our present misery it be possible to conceive it; but the sentiments and worship proper to a fallen and offending being we have all to learn, as we have all to practice.

Anonymous Fri Mar 23 01:42:58 2018 No.10883937

The poet, whatever be done, is always great. Our progenitors in their first state conversed with angels; even when folly and sin had degraded them, they had not in their humiliation “the port of mean suitors”; and they rise again to reverential regard when we find that their prayers were heard. 18
As human passions did not enter the world before the Fall, there is in the ‘Paradise Lost’ little opportunity for the pathetic; but what little there is, has not been lost. That passion which is peculiar to rational nature, the anguish arising from the consciousness of transgression, and the horrors attending the sense of the Divine displeasure, are very justly described and forcibly impressed. But the passions are moved only on one occasion: sublimity is the general and prevailing quality in this poem; sublimity variously modified,—sometimes descriptive, sometimes argumentative. 19
The defects and faults of ‘Paradise Lost’—for faults and defects every work of man must have—it is the business of impartial criticism to discover. As in displaying the excellence of Milton I have not made long quotations, because of selecting beauties there had been no end, I shall in the same general manner mention that which seems to deserve censure; for what Englishman can take delight in transcribing passages which, if they lessen the reputation of Milton, diminish in some degree the honor of our country? 20
The generality of my scheme does not admit the frequent notice of verbal inaccuracies: which Bentley, perhaps better skilled in grammar than poetry, has often found,—though he sometimes made them,—and which he imputed to the obtrusions of a reviser whom the author’s blindness obliged him to employ; a supposition rash and groundless if he thought it true, and vile and pernicious if—as is said—he in private allowed it to be false. 21
The plan of ‘Paradise Lost’ has this inconvenience, that it comprises neither human actions nor human manners. The man and woman who act and suffer are in a state which no other man or woman can ever know. The reader finds no transaction in which he can be engaged, beholds no condition in which he can by any effort of imagination place himself; he has therefore little natural curiosity or sympathy.

Anonymous Fri Mar 23 01:46:14 2018 No.10883950

We all indeed feel the effects of Adam’s disobedience; we all sin like Adam, and like him must all bewail our offenses; we have restless and insidious enemies in the fallen angels, and in the blessed spirits we have guardians and friends; in the redemption of mankind we hope to be included; in the description of heaven and hell we are surely interested, as we are all to reside hereafter either in the regions of horror or bliss. 23
But these truths are too important to be new: they have been taught to our infancy; they have mingled with our solitary thoughts and familiar conversations, and are habitually interwoven with the whole texture of life. Being therefore not new, they raise no unaccustomed emotion in the mind; what we knew before, we cannot learn; what is not unexpected, cannot surprise. 24
Of the ideas suggested by these awful scenes, from some we recede with reverence, except when stated hours require their association; and from others we shrink with horror, or admit them only as salutary inflictions, as counterpoises to our interests and passions. Such images rather obstruct the career of fancy than incite it. 25
Pleasure and terror are indeed the genuine sources of poetry; but poetical pleasure must be such as human imagination can at least conceive, and poetical terrors such as human strength and fortitude may combat. The good and evil of eternity are too ponderous for the wings of wit; the mind sinks under them in passive helplessness, content with calm belief and humble adoration. 26
Known truths, however, may take a different appearance, and be conveyed to the mind by a new train of intermediate images. This Milton has undertaken and performed with pregnancy and vigor of mind peculiar to himself. Whoever considers the few radical positions which the Scriptures afforded him, will wonder by what energetic operation he expanded them to such extent, and ramified them to so much variety, restrained as he was by religious reverence from licentiousness of fiction.

Anonymous Fri Mar 23 01:48:32 2018 No.10883957

Here is a full display of the united force of study and genius,—of a great accumulation of materials, with judgment to digest and fancy to combine them: Milton was able to select from nature or from story, from an ancient fable or from modern science, whatever could illustrate or adorn his thoughts. An accumulation of knowledge impregnated his mind, fermented by study and exalted by imagination. 28
It has been therefore said, without an indecent hyperbole, by one of his encomiasts, that in reading ‘Paradise Lost’ we read a book of universal knowledge. 29
But original deficiency cannot be supplied. The want of human interest is always felt. ‘Paradise Lost’ is one of the books which the reader admires and lays down, and forgets to take up again. None ever wished it longer than it is. Its perusal is a duty rather than a pleasure. We read Milton for instruction, retire harassed and overburdened, and look elsewhere for recreation; we desert our master, and seek for companions. 30
Another inconvenience of Milton’s design is, that it requires the description of what cannot be described, the agency of spirits. He saw that immateriality supplied no images, and that he could not show angels acting but by instruments of action; he therefore invested them with form and matter. This being necessary, was therefore defensible; and he should have secured the consistency of his system by keeping immateriality out of sight, and enticing his reader to drop it from his thoughts. But he has unhappily perplexed his poetry with his philosophy. His infernal and celestial powers are sometimes pure spirit, and sometimes animated body. When Satan walks with his lance upon the “burning marl,” he has a body; when, in his passage between hell and the new world, he is in danger of sinking in the vacuity, and is supported by a gust of rising vapors, he has a body; when he animates the toad, he seems to be mere spirit, that can penetrate matter at pleasure; when he “starts up in his own shape,” he has at least a determined form; and when he is brought before Gabriel, he has “a spear and a shield,” which he had the power of hiding in the toad, though the arms of the contending angels are evidently material.

Anonymous Fri Mar 23 01:49:34 2018 No.10883962

The vulgar inhabitants of Pandæmonium, being “incorporeal spirits,” are “at large, though without number,” in a limited space; yet in the battle when they were overwhelmed by mountains, their armor hurt them, “crushed in upon their substance, now grown gross by sinning.” This likewise happened to the uncorrupted angels, who were overthrown “the sooner for their arms, for unarmed they might easily as spirits have evaded by contraction or remove.” Even as spirits they are hardly spiritual: for “contraction” and “remove” are images of matter; but if they could have escaped without their armor, they might have escaped from it and left only the empty cover to be battered. Uriel when he rides on a sunbeam is material; Satan is material when he is afraid of the prowess of Adam. 32
The confusion of spirit and matter which pervades the whole narration of the war of heaven fills it with incongruity; and the book in which it is related is, I believe, the favorite of children, and gradually neglected as knowledge is increased. 33
After the operation of immaterial agents which cannot be explained, may be considered that of allegorical persons which have no real existence. To exalt causes into agents, to invest abstract ideas with form, and animate them with activity, has always been the right of poetry…. 34
Milton’s allegory of Sin and Death is undoubtedly faulty. Sin is indeed the mother of Death, and may be allowed to be the portress of hell; but when they stop the journey of Satan, a journey described as real, and when Death offers him battle, the allegory is broken. That Sin and Death should have shown the way to hell, might have been allowed; but they cannot facilitate the passage by building a bridge, because the difficulty of Satan’s passage is described as real and sensible, and the bridge ought to be only figurative. The hell assigned to the rebellious spirits is described as not less local than the residence of man. It is placed in some distant part of space, separated from the regions of harmony and order by a chaotic waste and an unoccupied vacuity; but Sin and Death worked up a “mole of aggravated soil” cemented with asphaltus, a work too bulky for ideal architects. 35
This unskillful allegory appears to me one of the greatest faults of the poem; and to this there was no temptation but the author’s opinion of its beauty.

Anonymous Fri Mar 23 01:50:37 2018 No.10883969

To the conduct of the narrative some objections may be made. Satan is with great expectation brought before Gabriel in Paradise, and is suffered to go away unmolested. The creation of man is represented as the consequence of the vacuity left in heaven by the expulsion of the rebels; yet Satan mentions it as a report “rife in Heaven” before his departure. To find sentiments for the state of innocence was very difficult; and something of anticipation perhaps is now and then discovered. Adam’s discourse of dreams seems not to be the speculation of a new-created being. I know not whether his answer to the angel’s reproof for curiosity does not want something of propriety: it is the speech of a man acquainted with many other men. Some philosophical notions, especially when the philosophy is false, might have been better omitted. The angel, in a comparison, speaks of “timorous deer,” before deer were yet timorous, and before Adam could understand the comparison…. 37
Whatever be the faults of his diction, he cannot want the praise of copiousness and variety. He was master of his language in its full extent; and has selected the melodious words with such diligence, that from his book alone the Art of English Poetry might be learned…. 38
The highest praise of genius is original invention. Milton cannot be said to have contrived the structure of an epic poem; and therefore owes reverence to that vigor and amplitude of mind to which all generations must be indebted for the art of poetical narration, for the texture of the fable, the variation of incidents, the interposition of dialogue, and all the stratagems that surprise and enchain attention. But of all the borrowers from Homer, Milton is perhaps the least indebted. He was naturally a thinker for himself, confident of his own abilities, and disdainful of help or hindrance: he did not refuse admission to the thoughts or images of his predecessors, but he did not seek them. From his contemporaries he neither courted nor received support; there is in his writings nothing by which the pride of other authors might be gratified, or favor gained; no exchange of praise nor solicitation of support. His great works were performed under discountenance and in blindness; but difficulties vanished at his touch: he was born for whatever is arduous; and his work is not the greatest of heroic poems, only because it is not the first. 39

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/lit/ - Literature