/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10864359]

>Hell yeah, a writer is what I am going to be....

>"Active Voice?"

>Oh yeah, I know that one. I jus....

>"Asyndeton?"

>Shit, what the fuck is that? ...

>"Chiasmus, Conjunctive Adverbs , Parataxis, Superlative Form?"

>S-stop it, I don't know what all of these things are.

>"Syndetons, Split Infinitives, Compound Predicates, Polysyndeton..."

>Noooooooo.

[Anonymous No.10864391]

I like how the criticism image ITSELF includes an
>*I* wouldn't fuck you! My pussy will NEVER open its sloppy gates for your cum
approach to "criticizing" men for their behavior

Having a cunt is like a mental sickness. Everything you encounter, everything you think or want to say, EVERYTHING that emanates from the seat of your soul must first pass through the filter of "How does the fact that I'm a sexual selector play into this?"

[Anonymous No.10864395]

wtf is going on in this thread oh wait i don't even care, hided

[Anonymous No.10864400]

>>10864359
>every single young male author ever is influenced by Bukowski

Where did this meme come from?

[Anonymous No.10864402]

what is this postmodern shit

[Anonymous No.10864405]

Knowing what does mean won’t make you a good writer.

Also fuck your rules bitch boy

[Anonymous No.10864489]

>>10864359
>implying these things didn't just arise out of lit criticism
>implying authors themselves invented these things knowingly

[Anonymous No.10864543]

>>10864359
Bukowski didn't know what those were, he could barely spell (and punctuate)

[Anonymous No.10864897]

>>10864359

Lecturing the birds how to fly

[Anonymous No.10864899]

>>10864897
>implying 4chan knows how to write

lmfao

[Anonymous No.10864904]

>>10864359
wow that's sexist

[Anonymous No.10864924]

>>10864359
so he goes home and googles all of that? whats the problem?

[Anonymous No.10864931]

>>10864391
Stop watching PUA videos.

[Anonymous No.10864944]

>>10864931
Look at the picture, though. The criticism is ultimately based in the refusal of sex. It's like how women will often respond to arguments with a man by calling him a virgin, or saying that women will not have sex with him, etc. Their default mode of argumentation is based around their sexual gatekeeper status.

[Anonymous No.10864968]

>>10864400
who is Bukowski?

[Anonymous No.10864975]

>>10864944
autism

[Anonymous No.10864998]

>>10864975
Not an argument honey ;)

[Anonymous No.10865103]

>>10864359
The irony is that I know many more women who enjoy Hemingway and Bukowski than men.

[Anonymous No.10865184]

>>10865103
hemingway is fine, bukowski is literature for slutty women

[Anonymous No.10865982]

>>10864359
bukowski is the male rupi kaur

[Anonymous No.10866003]

>>10864998
Its just some butthurt roastie. Youre right men crave sex and women leverage to get what they want. Its that simple

[Anonymous No.10866026]

>>10864359
>Bukowski and Hemingway

[Anonymous No.10866028]

>>10864391
Problem?; virgin?!

[Anonymous No.10866424]

>>10864968
The dumb action movie of literature

[Anonymous No.10866429]

>>10864975
>autism

[Anonymous No.10866471]

>>10864359
>he didn't have a rigorous English grammar class in the 8th grade
>he didn't study Latin, French and German to universalize his understanding of grammar
>he hasn't studied the poetry of those languages and written some himself
The above are the bare minimum to ever be a quality literary writer. If you don't know grammar inside and out then you're just flailing around in the dark when trying to develop a written voice.

[Anonymous No.10866629]

>>10866471
this but unironically

[Anonymous No.10866660]

Honestly young hipster americans just seem like absolute scum. An entire culture based around nothing but snarky, sneering criticism of one another. It's depressing to look at from over here in yuropoor land

[Anonymous No.10866701]

>>10866660
What are the subcultures like over there euro anon?

[Anonymous No.10866718]

>>10866701
Here in bongland it's nothing but alcoholism, people don't seem to bother with subcultures anymore. A few students act like a parody of a /pol/ poster's nightmares but otherwise just booze and more booze.

[Anonymous No.10866719]

>>10866026
>tfw I have a full beard and drink IPAs

[Anonymous No.10866725]

>>10864359
Does anyone actually refer to grammatical structure in formulating their sentences? I just can't imagine Gaddis or Pynch sitting around hemming, hawing, checking through each page, filtering the number of grammatical playthings per page each.
Look, I don't doubt that from the perspective of an editor, it's fascinating, but I highly doubt there's some overarching guideline to english that all or even some of the greats followed with excessive effort. In fact, that variety isnwhat is most beautiful. that two authors can be dense and pulchritudinous in completely separate ways.

[Anonymous No.10866729]

>>10866701
snarky, snearing criticism of one another and Americans

[Anonymous No.10866734]

>>10866729
I wasn't trying to be funny or superior though, you know what I mean

[Anonymous No.10866735]

>>10866718
I'd rather stay in Murrica.

[Anonymous No.10866750]

>>10866729
i like how the american always jumps in to make the oh so funny and witty quip....

[Anonymous No.10866771]

>>10866734
I don't know what you mean though. My online interactions with Germans, Brits and Nords don't seem any better than what you were reacting to, and it's a little weird how they always seem to have such strongly held beliefs about American domestic policies.

>>10866750
O B S E S S E D

[Anonymous No.10866810]

>>10866771
I could be wrong, I'm only going on what I see online. It just seems as though you all have such contempt for each other, it looks miserable.

[Anonymous No.10866828]

>>10866810
I guess that depends a lot on what venues you're looking at online. If you're reading political ones, then yeah those get pretty tense but I can't imagine the far-right and left parties in any European country love each other too much either. Social media is dominated by the worst people alive, which I doubt is an American thing. 4chan is where young men go to express toxicity (except, occasionally, on the boards about self-improvement and creativity). Here in the real world America has its problems but if you're educated and hang out with other educated people it's not so bad.

[Anonymous No.10866885]

>>10866828
Even educated Americans are dumber than the average European. Been living here for seven years in the most "prestigious" universities.

[Anonymous No.10866898]

>>10866885
This is objectively untrue but okay. Perhaps you mean that you think their culture is dumb, which is a different matter.

[Anonymous No.10866899]

>>10866026
Their obsession with meat is one of the most annoying things about these pseudo-manly men. Just to preface a bit, I am not a vegetarian. That being said, the way they equate meat-eating with manliness is just ridiculous. Meat is easy to acquire, it tastes good, and takes absolutely no effort for them to acquire. Vegetarianism is much more manly, it involves sacrifice of pleasure for the well-being of an animal; most of these "manly" Ron Swanson wannabes have hardly sacrificed a thing in their lives. I doubt many of them would have the gut to hunt and kill an animal themselves, they just reap the benefits of (((factory farming))) without having to consider the animals that die so they can go all "muh manly BACON".

[Anonymous No.10866910]

>>10866899
>Meat is easy to acquire, it tastes good, and takes absolutely no effort for them to acquire

Whoops I am redundant, I need to proofread better

[Anonymous No.10867054]

>>10865184
Yeah I like Hemingway, which makes it more annoying that so many people pretend like their is this intolerable subculture of macho young men who worship him when in reality he seems to appeal to more women than men.

[Anonymous No.10867067]

>>10864391
Pretty accurate

[Anonymous No.10867089]

>am a young, male, aspiring young writer
>have never read Bukowski or Hemingway
Get dunked on roasties

[Anonymous No.10867153]

My favorite writers are Tolstoy and Shakespeare. I have never read Bukowski and Hemingway. I run my eyes on some Hemingway pages, but they looked like meatless chicken bones: it’s a style like any other style, but that strives to seem “simple” and “clean” and “plain”: it’s not my thing.

I have no problems with feminist girls and feminism: in fact I believe that many of their claims are fair. In many countries the rates of domestic violence against women, of differences in labor wages, in job opportunities and so forth are very concerning. I can’t see why is so difficult for many people to see that feminism is not about women being treated better than men, but as equals. Actually, I guess that many people understand that, but pretend not to understand because they want to marry with a hot girl that will stay in the kitchen cooking their meals and taking care of the children. I confess that life would be easier with a wife who acted like this, but one must always put oneself in the place of others, and if I were a girl I would like to study and have a career, not stay at home cleaning the house and taking care of children.

At the same time I have spent a lot of money with prostitutes (don’t think that many who criticize feminism would view prostitution with neutral-eyes, but also don’t think that many feminists would).

As for the OP, I love rhetoric. I have studied some books of it with great pleasure, like Sister Miriam Joseph’s “Shakespeare Uses of the Arts of Language”.

[Anonymous No.10867197]

>>10866899
just eat a healthy diet and stop worrying if it is masculine or feminine lmao come on nigga

[Anonymous No.10867205]

>>10866718
>tfw teetoaler
essentially makes me an outcast in British society, I have more in common with the Muslims (and no I am not a wog I am native White British church of England background)

[Anonymous No.10867206]

Hemingway was a hack.

[Anonymous No.10867210]

>>10867153
you seem like an interesting fellow
what do you do for a living?

[Anonymous No.10867234]

>>10864359
as if women knew anything about literature
as if patricians care what women think
as if women are only fuck toys and a distraction to reading and writing

[Anonymous No.10867259]

>>10867210

I don’t think I’m interesting, Anon. I see myself as grey-souled, grey-blooded, grey-in-personality.

But to your questions: I work as a lawyer. I wanted to be a writer full-time, but knew that it would be very hard to achieve that with my poor works and poetic/old-fashioned style. Indeed, my two books didn’t sell.

By insistence of my family – all layers – I also studied law, but I do not love the profession. It’s beautiful and significant, and it’s extremely important for the functioning of society, but my hearth is not on it. However, since this is by far the best prospect for me, I work in the law-office of my family. Our especially is labor law.

I’m currently doing a masters degree in literature. If everything happen well* I plan to become a literature teacher in the future.

*My books were poetic plays: the kind of stuff that hardly anyone reads today, with the exception of Shakespeare’s plays. I am now planning a novel and, if I manage to write it, I will look for a literary agent and try to hit the publishers with more marketing and financing, etc. If the book really sell – unlikely – I would strive to live by writing alone.

(Forgive my bad English, is not my first language and I am not very good at it)

[Anonymous No.10867278]

>>10867234
This tbqh. Having a gf is a pain if you want to actually fucking read

[Anonymous No.10867280]

>>10867259
I bet you're a real hit with the ladies

[Anonymous No.10867282]

H-how long until the women catch on that we don't actually like Hemingway?

[Anonymous No.10867290]

>>10866471
Which is why we went from Tolstoy and Joyce to nothing.

[Anonymous No.10867305]

>>10866660
that's just jewish culture becoming mainstream with people not smart enough to pull it off

[Anonymous No.10867358]

>>10864359
I only learned about the names for these things because of my Latin courses. Never once throughout high school or college was I taught any of those words.

[Anonymous No.10867369]

>>10867280
>complete non-sequitor reinforcing the fact that he has no leverage in the sexual marketplace
>responding to an eloquently written post with mindless dribble
hi female

[Anonymous No.10867446]

>>10864359
Analysis and terminology is for critics, not writers. Unless you want to write an 'impress by numbers" for 10 sneering academics to read.

[Anonymous No.10867449]

>>10866898
don't give (You)'s to the muh americans posters

[Anonymous No.10867454]

>>10866660
>An entire culture based around nothing but snarky, sneering criticism of one another.

[Anonymous No.10867697]

>>10866471

>tfw learning Latin and Russian has improved my English immensely

[Anonymous No.10867705]

>>10867259

I think you sound like a nice, interesting guy

[Anonymous No.10867765]

>>10864359
I was taught most of that shit in high school. It's nearly useless. Btw if you wanted to sound like a proper smart pseud you could've mentioned fewer "-syndeton"s and instead namedropped anadiplosis, prolepsis, caesura, cюжeт and ocтpaнeниe

[Anonymous No.10867787]

>>10867153
Why do incredible average idiots need to include great writers in their incredibly average posting and identity shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.10867805]

>>10864944
i really hope you are trolling, the picture doesn't show that at all, you are just projecting super hard. As the last guy said stop watching pua videos..

[Anonymous No.10867808]

>>10866471
Bruh I didn't even know what a noun was until I was 21 that's how bad my education was

[Anonymous No.10867813]

>>10866899
bro is this thread a bunch of faggots projecting super hard?

[Anonymous No.10868290]

>>10864968
he worked with Charles Schultz on the Peanuts strips.

[Anonymous No.10868300]

>>10866725
>Does anyone actually refer to grammatical structure in formulating their sentences?


fuck, no. you say what you have to say as directly as possible, unless you're trying to parody Lovecraft or Eddison. if anyone tries to point out that you used the inverted past pluperfect indirect imperative form incorrectly, you kick them in the balls.

[Anonymous No.10868304]

>>10866471
At a certain point, you can't blame him. Blame the absolute lack of standards when it comes to teaching English in general.

[Anonymous No.10868305]

>>10868290

and

[Anonymous No.10868306]

>>10864391
GOOD post

[Anonymous No.10868745]

the sparrow does not teach the eagle how to soar

[Anonymous No.10868777]

>>10868745
Eat a dick, retard

[Anonymous No.10868782]

>>10868777
t. sparrow

[Anonymous No.10868784]

>>10864391
elite poast cyborg warrior

[Anonymous No.10868799]

>>10864391
based patrice oneal
their nothing more than a series of holes. without their pussy , women are fucked
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jnUU2c_i0w

[Anonymous No.10868807]

>>10864359
>>10864391

[Anonymous No.10868823]

>>10868799
they're

[Anonymous No.10868844]

>>10864359
Why do the genders have a constant need to attack one another now? It's so fucking annoying. It's also annoying that in mainstream culture it's only acceptable in one direction (girls attacking boys).

[Anonymous No.10868845]

Homer didn't know what any of those is, and I do know what every single one of those is.

Does that mean I am a better poet than Homer? Hardly.

How about the mods delete this thread? It would be useful.

[Anonymous No.10868854]

>>10868807
kek

[Anonymous No.10868861]

>>10864359
>the misguided sexual rage
In what way? Also, how can a woman purport to understand male sexuality when she literally can't experience what it's like to live with a male hormonal makeup?

[Anonymous No.10868876]

>>10864359
I have to say this stereotype of "young male author that tries hard to seem manly and hard-boiled through his writing" is something I've personally never seen.
If something most young writers nowadays seem to focus on depression and "emasculating" stuff like that.

[Anonymous No.10868886]

>>10868876
It's just a standard feminist attack on masculinity, even in its strawman form. Nothing to debate.

[Anonymous No.10868959]

>>10867205
Same in Australia, but you can add a whole bunch of drugs to the culture too.

[Anonymous No.10869010]

>>10868959
there are plenty of subcultures in australia youre just not looking

[Anonymous No.10869038]

>>10864400
Honestly, it's better than the same crap derivative of Baldwin and Lorde that every other demographic seems to produce.

[Anonymous No.10869188]

>>10864391
>Having a cunt is like a mental sickness
I will never tire of misogyny

[Anonymous No.10869255]

>>10867305
Yep, when I interact with people it's as if they are playing characters in a sitcom, and it's really not that funny.

[Anonymous No.10869273]

>>10864400
Some thot in grad school met a chubby bearded nice guy who likes Bukowski and Hemingway who called her a slut and this is how she takes it out

[Anonymous No.10869278]

>>10864899
I know how to write very well because I am not obsessed with the writerly universals which many writers (especially Hemingway fans) are obsessed with.
>>10866471
You fucking retard, you can't 'universalize' your grammar by studying fucking four Indo-European languages. Go back to /pol/ please.

[Anonymous No.10869282]

>>10867259
What country? First language?

[Anonymous No.10869301]

>>10869278
Those languages are the minimum if you're writing in English, largely because they're most closely related to English. Of course more is always better and writers in other languages may benefit more from studying other languages. It wasn't supposed to be a racist thing.

[Anonymous No.10869315]

>>10869278
>>10869301
Actually no, I'm not apologizing for anything. It should have been clear that I was talking about writers in English for whom English is a first language and that "universalize" didn't mean to grasp every possible way a language can be constructed from studying 4 related ones.

Also check your own use of "universal" in >>10869278 you smarmy fuck.

[Anonymous No.10869319]

>>10868784
Nice

[Anonymous No.10869376]

>>10866471
>tfw did all those things but studied Latin, French, and Spanish instead
I'll never make it

[Anonymous No.10869392]

>>10869301
unversals is a different concept from universal, you illiterate manchild.

[Anonymous No.10869406]

>>10869392
"Universals" is still predicated on the universality of the universal in question. That they fall under different dictionary subheadings doesn't mean they're totally unrelated.

[Anonymous No.10869419]

>>10869406
Holy fuck you are painfully stupid. Kantian subhuman moron.

[Anonymous No.10869718]

>>10867805

not the guy you're responding to but it does imply that, yea, the two in the pic are in a courtship ritual. you can tell because platonic relationships are not like this, they don't say "nope" to each other and look down irritated. they'll fake being interested at the least. she's treating him like a prospective mate and then denying him his advance (her spreading her legs) based on an opinion like that

[Anonymous No.10869765]

>writing YOUR own works to match the stylistic preferences of academics
>not writing YOUR pieces in accordance with styles you admire/have influenced you and your own natural rhythm
I sure hope you guys don't do this. You seriously won't be happy with what you've created if you alter your voice to appease someone else.

[Anonymous No.10869870]

>>10867787
lmao, you're incredible average too you know, and dont believe yourself to be better just because you know this fact

[Anonymous No.10870182]

>Not writing whatever comes to your mind with no filters and not even worrying about the style

Not going to make it

[Anonymous No.10871858]

>>10866718
t. provincial scum

[Anonymous No.10871877]

>>10870182
>sorry anon, this is interesting but your style is very "jagged," like you haven't developed a distinctive voice yet. We look forward to your future work but this piece isn't right for us.

[Anonymous No.10871906]

>>10866899
This is a consequence of no longer being able to associate actual virtues with manliness in the public sphere.

[Anonymous No.10871921]

All that completely superficial jargon has never been good for anything, and has been mocked since the pedants of Alexandria invented it. Memorizing these terms' definitions is easily done and will do nothing to make you a better writer. An intuitive grasp of grammar and cadence is a prerequisite of being a good writer, yes, but it is key that it be INTUITIVE. If you need to rely on all this Latin and Greek terminology to understand grammar and "style" (and it has always been my impression that it does not give any insight into the essence of writers' actual style), perhaps that is a sign that you're not cut out for serious writing after all. I realize this is bait, but many people are duped by this stuff.

>>10864391
You shut the fuck up too.

[Anonymous No.10871937]

>>10869376
You'd make it if you didn't allow your thought process to be influenced by anonymous posts on an image board so easily. That pleb didn't even study Greek.

[Anonymous No.10872053]

>>10871937
What do you people not understand about the term "bare minimum?"

[Anonymous No.10872064]

>>10864391
You're fucking caught in their trap faggot. Women's behavior is always and completely cured by ignoring women's behavior and continuing on as you planned, thereby changing said woman's behaviour

[Anonymous No.10872084]

>>10865184
>>10865103

Hemingway and Bukowski shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence. Hemingway is a great writer, Bukowski is minor popular author. They have totally different subject matters and very different styles, beyond being generally understandable. I honestly don't know why people group them together.

[Anonymous No.10872085]

Maybe we should strawman every female write into danielle steele ,j.k rowling the twilight chick or rupi kaur?
Or maybe we should stereotype them as the horribly depressed and painfully nieve and sheltered writer like the bronye sister or sylvia plath?
Or the loudmouth bitch complaining about every goddamn thing about poverty class and race?
Maybe that would help this new generation of writers.
If we all turned the giants of the past into hollow strawnmen.

[Anonymous No.10872116]

τοίνυν ού δείξεις, ῶ μαkάριε, ὅτι τὴν Ἑλληνιkὴν μεμάθηkας, ἢ οὔ;

[Anonymous No.10872123]

>>10872116
>>10872053
meant for this guy

[Anonymous No.10872563]

>>10872085
We do do that though, and happily. And we should.

[Anonymous No.10872571]

>>10872085
>If we all turned the giants of the past into hollow strawnmen.
What did he mean by this?