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/lit/ - Literature

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10855256 No.10855256[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

tell me, you-a non nihilistic person
How do you see a meaningful life without god/religion?

Some books on this theme too?

>> No.10855270

>>10855256
"God" is a name for natural spiritual feelings and religion is just the social organization around it. They are both obviously unnecessarily to actually believe in a God-like figure or force or element. You don't need to give your feelings any name for them to exist. So either that's an answer to your question or you gonna have to ask it better.

>> No.10855272

I can't fucking wait for this retarded muh nihilism muh religion meta to end.

>> No.10855277

>>10855256
You need to have high IQ or some sort of talent to find your own meaning in life if you can't brainwash yourself into believing in god.

If you can't yet also don't have any sort of innate worth to yourself you will have a meaningless life. This is common among ~115 IQ lonely men who grew up on 4chan.

>> No.10855304

>>10855277
>>10855272
>>10855270
>I can't see/feel the religious movement enveloping my reality

You fags are deluded, religion is increasing, especially this last year.

>> No.10855311

>>10855304
>my fee fees
There is no god. You can either lie to yourself or accept the truth.

>> No.10855318

>>10855304
god
doesn't
exist
get over it fags

>> No.10855319

>>10855304
How did you get that from my post(1st in thread)? I am aware of this, but OP obviously has an issue with calling it "God". He really doesn't have to as long as he accepts his spirituality and escapes nihilism.
You /pol/fags sure love to knee jerk react

>> No.10855320

>>10855311
Hahahaha, how long will you lie to yourself, while hiding behind anonymity?

>> No.10855326

>>10855256
>Not using the meaninglessness of life as an excuse for living in hedonistic excess

>> No.10855330

>>10855320
Same words as the 80 IQ religious fanatics who contribute nothing to society before being exposed as criminal leeches farther down the line. Good going.

>> No.10855343

>>10855326
>The classic pitfall of nihilists is somehow a positive thing
This is why people laugh at you
>>10855330
Enough seculars did and still do the very same things in the very same capacity. Criminal leeches is like the motto of our political systems.

>> No.10855355

>>10855343
>This is why people laugh at you
They can laugh all they want. I'm happier than they are.

>> No.10855372

>>10855355
This is the most ridiculous thing you idiots say. You're happy huh? So why is it that you and your brethren seem to be suicidal drug addicts who have nothing but low-grade escapism keeping them alive? Saying that you're happy doesn't work too well when you are obviously mentally fucked with depression, self destruction, and anxiety. May as well be a schizo lecturing me about the perception of reality.

>> No.10855381

>>10855256
uh bro god is just the philosophical assumption of a first cause, the thing around which religions formed like a cancer. read the motherfucking greeks. you can have faith in god, or not, but that does not change whether you will act ethically or meaningfully (that is, to your satisfaction) in your lifetime.

>> No.10855391
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10855391

Spirituality is key. The closest thing to a religion you need to have are the native beliefs of your people/bloodline. If you're a mixed race American, too bad, but for most people you can find a meaning for your life by searching the past. Remember that you are a part of nature. Nature is a God, learn to respect her.
I can't really put these things into words too well.

>> No.10855393

OP here
Seems like I did my fucking context in a wrong way
So, all the religious fuckers here can gtfo
My actual question was:
HOW DO YOU GUYS DEFINE A MEANINGFUL LIFE WITHOUT USING THE CONCEPT OF RELIGION/OF A GOD?

>> No.10855400

>>10855393
>>10855277

>> No.10855408

>>10855393
uh bro maybe you should define your terms so people don't think you're a retard. i define a meaningful life as one lived in search for truth. a philosopher's life. don't you?

>> No.10855419

>>10855393
You don't. Enjoy being miserable

>> No.10855421

>>10855393
Nah, you're going to end up a drug addict. Hope you enjoy the 100th season of your favorite show before you kys for ignoring your own human feels

>> No.10855422

>>10855408
that s what I am aspiring to too, kind of
but
what 'truth' are we talking about?

>> No.10855440

>>10855422
THE Truth.

>> No.10855442

>>10855422
uh bro speaking for myself only i will say the truth i seek is unknowable, it can only be found in faith because ultimately there is no proof for or against its existence. the truth i wish to express in my lifetime will use the language of archetypes and (dare i say it) religious symbols to describe a truth needed by humanity. something that saves lives, or more precisely guides us through the fucking horrible decades to come when we are finally digested by technology and the spectacle and expelled into a barren world like warm shit on a hot rock.

>> No.10855450
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10855450

god is dead, long live the übermensch

>> No.10855459

>>10855450
>I have read less than a sentence of Nietzsche

>> No.10855462

>>10855256
You stop being a pussy and make your own meaning. Relying on something external to find purpose is the ultimate form of self-cuckoldry ffs this isn't that complicated

>> No.10855472

>>10855393
Naturalized meaning through biosemiotics.
Life is meaning. I'm so sick of this anachronistic folk usage of "meaning"(muh purpose)
The purpose of life is to create meaning out of meaningless information, that is what all life is orentied towards because that's what makes and perpetuates life itself.
My life isn't empty it's full of meaning, I like meaning made by other lives as well so I try my best to be emersed in biodiversity.
You could say that life does for me everything religion does and then much more. It's what's at the root of all religion and everything else. I like religion, specifically primitive religious "animism" and the like.
There is probably more meaning existing in a kilo of soil than everything everyone has ever abstracted from every religion.

>> No.10855478

>>10855462
BUT IT'S SO FUCKING HARD

>> No.10855488

>>10855478
It's really fucking easy by the way. Simple.

>> No.10855490
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10855490

>>10855256
Pic related unironically.

>> No.10855493
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10855493

>>10855478
uh bro relax just roll for your wizard type and don't fucking worry about the rest of your life.

rollin'

>> No.10855494

>>10855393
Why does your life need meaning?

>> No.10855496
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10855496

God exists as a social category independent of whether your belief is a first-person belief. The specific Judeo-Christian position that one needs to have a firm set of propositions in mind (I believe in One God...) for your belief to count, is just how it historically formed inside our tradition, but it's not the case for post-modern religiosity.

>> No.10855501

>>10855493
roll.

>> No.10855506

>>10855501
haha plebs i'm the #1 wizard.

>> No.10855511

>>10855506
uh bro now do you see? now your life has meaning. :^)

>> No.10855515

>>10855494
so that I wont think about suicide everytime?
living as such a miserable piece of shit is pretty hard
I didn't end it until now cause of my family

>> No.10855516

>>10855462
Not everyone can create their own meaning. You usually need to have high IQ or talent to craft your own meaning, otherwise you're just kinda wandering around your dull mediocre meaningless life. Tell some average IQ guy who spends 10 hours of his day in a flourescent-lit office tasked with ultimately pointless responsibilities that he can craft his own meaning.

>> No.10855518
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10855518

>>10855393
>HOW DO YOU GUYS DEFINE A MEANINGFUL LIFE WITHOUT USING THE CONCEPT OF RELIGION/OF A GOD?
Naturalised neo-Aristotelian metaphysics

>> No.10855524

>>10855515
As I said, this feeling will not pass until you find spirituality no matter how you call it. I was where you are now not long ago. The only thing that is stopping you is semantics regarding the words "god" and religion".

>> No.10855528
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10855528

>>10855515
So, essentially, you're saying the only thing in your life keeping you from dying is your bloodline? Perhaps the meaning of life is to live solely to keep those around you alive?

>> No.10855531

>>10855372

I don't know what's more incredible, the massive projection, or your complete lack of self-awareness.

>> No.10855538

>>10855524
Spirituality is nonsense.

>> No.10855541

>>10855528
that doesn't work
My mother will die at a point.
What next?

>> No.10855545

>>10855538
uh bro you are nonsense. read a book.

>> No.10855547

>>10855538
Yes and the material world is just full of meaning to tap into. Guess you really are smarter than 99% of all humans ever.

>> No.10855548

>>10855541
Have children before then and you won't want to kill yourself because they need you alive.

>> No.10855560
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10855560

>>10855538
>t. Materialist

>> No.10855569

>>10855547
Everything is material. Rejecting the material world in search of something "truer" when you can't even provide a concrete definition of what the truth is to you tells me you care more about the idea of yourself pursuing ideology rather than the ideology you pretend to pursue.

>> No.10855577

>>10855459
a bit hyperbolic, but yeah, you're right.
the preface, though, i find very relatable.

>> No.10855578

>>10855569
Brainlet. The concept of spirituality is to achieve being content, happy with the least material needs possible, so as to not fool yourself into giving your life meaning over having things, which obviously will end badly one way or another.
It's not >HURR DURR WHO NEEDS THINGS
It's I don't really need anything to be okay with existing, everything's a plus in itself.

>> No.10855589

>>10855569
I said nothing about the rejection of the material world. It is of course essential to acknowledge the world around you.
But you are rejecting the spiritual world, i.e. one of the oldest traditions of the human race because of your shitty hormones(you are most probably a "young adult", aren't you?). Those feeling that you feel, they stem out of the fact that you are missing a perspective that your ancestors did not miss. Nothing is going to fill that hole beside what's supposed to be there.
And of course, not everything is material you dumbo, who are you exactly to say that? You're talking like a stereotype. You have no clear idea what the nature of the universe is and of even what is material just like others. Your confidence is unwarennted.

>> No.10855602

>>10855589
All these words, and yet not one concrete argument.

Tradition isn't enough for me to believe in spirituality, nor is an ad hominem concerning my age.

Not everything is material? Your thoughts are electrical signals governed by the structure of your brain which has been determined by your genes. It is these signals that came up with and were driven to spirituality, founded by all the very much rooted in the material world aspects you deny.

>> No.10855617

>>10855602
I don't deny the material world. And if you'd have acted the same you'd know that spirituality is essential to human psychology whether or not it is objectively accurate. You feel the effects of depriving yourself of yet another psychological need like it tends to happen in the modern world. You have no idea what tradition means btw

>> No.10855637

>>10855617
I'd rather deprive myself of a psychological need that can be dealt with using a drug anyway than buy into something that isn't true or founded in reality in the slightest.

>> No.10855652
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10855652

>>10855478
It's only as hard as you want it to be. I recommend you do some deep introspection and figure out what exactly is stopping you from doing so. You'll find it's usually some external idea that's been planted in your head by people/entities/modes of thinking that find it inconvenient for you to live meaningfully on your own merits. Set yourself a goal and work towards it. You'll suffer a lot, of course. Still, you're already suffering, so it's not like you're losing anything by taking a chance and making some changes to your life. You're bound to fail a million times, but along the way, you'll pick up a lot of things you never expected to find. Friends, skills, and trivial stuff that simply make you happy. Once you reach your destination you'll look back and see that the meaning came about naturally, instead of being artificial/forced. Just keep in mind that the goal is a means to an end. Achieving it won't actually make you happy. It's the little detours that make it worthwhile my dude.

>>10855516
>implying IQ means anything
I've found that's usually an excuse people make to justify their own mediocrity. Yeah, not everyone's Einstein, but that really shouldn't stop a person from being the best version of themselves they possibly can. Using IQ is literally allowing an external force to determine your own worth. Frankly speaking, I find that pathetic. I've met plenty of idiots that live meaningfully (without resorting to God or whatever) and many otherwise intelligent folk who create their own nihilistic misery.

>> No.10855670

>>10855256

I literally get kicks and sexual satisfaction from enforcing my will and creating things of my own. Those situations are my daily goals, they are my reason to live. I see life meaningful only because of my lucky set of genes and environment. If your reflex is to suffer, there is no hope for you. In that case you literally don't have the necessary components in your brain to derive pleasure from.

>> No.10855729

>>10855652
You underestimate IQ.

>> No.10856316

>>10855256
If you mean how does life have any meaning, philosophical hedonism is correct. If you mean how do you have a fulfilled life, obviously no one has an easy answer that works for everyone, but I've become convinced that the most important thing is family. You need people you love who love you and who you know you can count on.

>> No.10856450

I can't even find meaning with God and religion, how do people even live without? I have no purpose.

>> No.10856481

>>10855256
lmao nigga get a job

>> No.10856490

>>10855729
>brainlet who struggles to reinvent himself

>> No.10856574

>>10855602
>Not everything is material? Your thoughts are electrical signals governed by the structure of your brain which has been determined by your genes. It is these signals that came up with and were driven to spirituality, founded by all the very much rooted in the material world aspects you deny.
>Muh central dogma
>Muh weismanns barrier
>Muh selfish Gene
Fuck off idiot.
Genes, like material and everything else are pure stipulation and the product of semiotic translation. You're a dumb fucking Cartesian and you probably take a niave contention to Cartesian duality
You're a stupid fucking faggot, take it from an actual scientist.

>> No.10856980

>>10855637
Kek

>> No.10857087

>>10855256
But I do value god and religion, its a part of what keeos me going.

>> No.10857836

>>10855637
It's ridiculous how you just wrote that you will replace a basic human need with a lifetime addiction to some substance and you think it's ok and that's everything's gonna be fine. No, you will find like many nihilists have before you have, that drugs can't replace a genuinely healthy human psyche. They'll never be able to. Your best option is to turn yourself into an unstable autist popping benzos. What you call "unfounded in reality in the slightest" is merely an extension of philosophy that you ignore due to childish biases.

>> No.10857889

>>10855277
>having a high IQ gives your life meaning
lmao

>> No.10857913

>>10855372
Oh plz i know tons of religious people who have mental issues. Even priests I know suffer from depression. Even IF converting cured all these things it wouldn't be evidence of its truth, it would just mean that converting made life more agreeable and less scary and confusing.
>>10855256
Let me guess OP you grew up in a religious household? Learn what value means and practice introspection. Your best bet is studying Buddhism. Stop trying to wrap your head around the world, it wasn't created, its not comprehensible. The more you try to learn to consider things through this mindset the more ease will you welcome into your life. Live for the Tao.

>> No.10857937
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10857937

Stop believing in God

>> No.10857942

>>10855372
kek at this projection

>> No.10858025

>>10857913
I don't get why you're talking about converting, I'm not talking about Christianity and I'm not a missionary. What cures people is to be inline with their needs. Spirituals ones as well. I didn't talk about tradition to make you blindly follow ancestors, it's just evidence that eventually humans everywhere, generations upon generations, sought and found answers to the questions you're asking - or at least they have some guidance to offer. You need this as well, and the "religious" people who are suffering from mental instability have a fucked spirituality (as I said before imo mainstream religion and spirituality are rarely related nowadays)

>> No.10858028

>>10855256
it wont happen that way friend. All happy atheists run on the fumes of their Christian upraising's in their family or society or country.

>> No.10858087

>>10858025
> it's just evidence that eventually humans everywhere, generations upon generations, sought and found answers to the questions you're asking - or at least they have some guidance to offer.
This is only evidence that they struggled with the same problems, they may have found a solution (more power to them) it doesnt discount me from finding a solution as well.

>(as I said before imo mainstream religion and spirituality are rarely related nowadays)
Please explain what you mean then, how do you define spirituality?

>> No.10858310

>>10858087
>it doesnt discount me from finding a solution as well.
My emphasis was on the guidance part. It's honestly stupid(imo) to just discard the ancient deep beliefs of your ancestors. You are them. I don't know where you come from, but if you're a euro, you've been pagan and then Christian, you always knew that there is something beyond the material world that was itself relevant to the material world.
Even if you believe only in the material you have to recognize that this is an almost universal psychological tendency, and if you believe in the natural selection you oughta ask yourself why those tendencies are so prevalent.
That's spirituality as far as I see it, at the very least an acknowledgment of that need to look beyond the material.

>> No.10858620
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10858620

>>10858028
>this is what christfags actually believe

>> No.10858752
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10858752

>>10858310
>I don't know where you come from, but if you're a euro, you've been pagan and then Christian, you always knew that there is something beyond the material world that was itself relevant to the material world.
This is traditionally found in all cultures. My origins have little relevancy to what I should believe. The prevelancy of these beyond-the material-world-forms-of-belief being a part of the past is because, like i said, an encounter with similar issues of existence and reality which could only be resolved through abstract means. But theres nothing stopping me from forming my own abstract solution to these same issues. You're focusing a lot on materialism but I don't think i would consider myself such. The very nature of constructed-truth is that it stands apart from the material world, it is an expression of thought and idea, things which do not decay, and which creates the material world into something more than what it truly is. But the idea is merely communication, its semiotic (as someone else in this thread said) BUT that doesnt mean it's worth any less. The issue here isn't my dissatisfaction with the material world, its your dissatisfaction of it; you have a distaste for that which you've deluded yourself into believing is possible to surpass, but i acknowledge that the source of my meaning is FROM the material, born out of the response to its meaningless, not beyond it.

>>10855493
rolling

>> No.10858784

The only thing i believe in is impermanence.

>> No.10858785

>>10858752
Religious fags can't conceive of any philosophy which is outside their shitty dichotomy of materialism and religious metaphysics, these debates are fucking retarded. There are myriad of non-materialist alternatives which don't require believing Jesus will come down to Earth in an arbitrary time and judge your soul for masturbation sins.

>> No.10858875
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10858875

And no wonder you people need saving, similar to the wagon whose wheels have broken down in the meandering mountain path, you christcucks resort to the modern version of smoke signals to call for help, in the current year these take the form of your moral grandstanding, condemning those who desire, those who with hard work temper their character to see their wills manifest before their eyes, going so far as to call this worthy quest nothing but “greed", "lust" or even "gut urges”.

I find it funny in a very sublime way, so much so that I can’t help but to chuckle at it. And is to these very same people who are convinced of their holy purpose, more compelled that any other to prove their virtues that I say, than even after creating the aggregated sum of all the kindness they have bestowed onto strangers by following the gospel of their holy book, they still fall short and simply cannot compare to the absolute bliss I’m able to provide to a girl in a night of frivolous pursuit. With a single swift thrust of my hips, their entire lives up to that point validated; my meat rod falls upon them, striking their soft flesh like the whip of the very same Martin Luther during his daily session of self-flagellation, and much like the pain freed him from the guilt of his past sins, the pleasure of my instrument quickly wipes away their feelings of shame and self-loathing.

>> No.10859117

>>10855393
existencialism
>Camus, Sartre
Also read the eternal cycle of life concept by Nietzsche

>> No.10859140

>>10859117
this mothafucka cant even spell Existentialism

>> No.10859165

>>10855304
Pagan LARPers doesn't count

>> No.10859220

>>10855578
why delude yourself with attempting to attach meaning to anything in this world and accept the absurdity of it all and empower yourself with it

>> No.10860215
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10860215

>>10855515
There is no explicit meaning, the meaning of life is implicit. You can't name it, you just know it's there or missing.
There is definitely more to the world then the "things" inside the world, but it's senseless to think or talk about them (read Wittgenstein's Tractatus for this). This mystical "more" only shows itself.
Nietzsche would point to beauty and arts I think.

You sound depressed and if so, I would read up on that at first if I were you. Cognitive behavioural therapy, sports, sleep hygiene and SSRIs will help. Even if you don't wanna go to a Doc, do sports and read up on CBT and change your thoughts and behaviour accordingly.

Once you're able to enjoy again, you can continue reading some Stirner and Nietzsche (starting with Beyond Good and Evil). No one's gonna give you a ready made value structure to follow after God's death, it has yet to be made. Right now I'm sitting on my couch and enjoying the sun. It warmed up the room, my cat is sleeping next to me, I'm looking at the paintings of my late grandpa and ate delicious food beforehand. (I'm drowning in debt, have no gf or close friends, but crying about it wont help and a good moment is a good moment.) I think the only way to find a compelling value structure for yourself is to view at the problem from a life affirming point of view. I'm far of having that figured out myself, but I'm slowly working on it by broadening my horizon.

>> No.10860223

>>10860215
So "Live Laugh Love," then.

>> No.10860242

>>10855256
I don't like this world. The beautiful things I see are among the most vile and alienated reality. I don't see much chance of living a happy life. I have thought about killing myself, but my desire to change this world so the things I love can prosper is much greater than my desire for pleasure and happiness.

>> No.10860278

>>10860215
Good post

>> No.10860294

>>10860223
But not in the sense of happy go lucky ignorance. Nietzsche would suggest to also embrace and feast on your pain! It makes you feel alive - in a different way then bliss does even. Take the good with the bad.
It's more of a "Live Laugh Love Fail Curse Struggle Destroy Rebuild".

(Of course that doesn't hold true for depression, this motherfucker takes away all feeling until there is only emptiness left, which is not something anyone should put up with.)

>> No.10861079

>>10859140
That's why he didn't write the books. Doesn't mean he can't read.

>> No.10861103

>>10858785
>this garbage bait
>or seriously assuming all religious fags are ignorant of philosophy and buy into whatever preconceived strawman dichotomy this anon has, in his ignorance, in mind

>>10858752
good job jizzwiz