Books on Zen Buddhism

[Anonymous No.10824317]

I'm not sure if this the right place to ask this question, but does anyone have any recommended books on zen buddhism? I would appreciate this very much.

[Anonymous No.10824339]

>>10824317
Get fucked, Buddhism is for cucks

[Anonymous No.10824347]

The Way of Zen by Allan Watts

[Anonymous No.10824353]

>>10824339
>lit
I am confused. Why are you flustered? All i ask is for some informative books on the religion. Also never say the word "c*cks again.

[Anonymous No.10824357]

>>10824347
Thank you.

[Anonymous No.10824367]

>>10824317
I think in a way you should read Simulations by Baudrillard

[Anonymous No.10824381]

>>10824317
D.T. Suzuki is the man you want to read. You could start with An Introduction to Zen Buddhism, but it's rather short and dry so I would get Zen Buddhism: Selected Writings.

[Anonymous No.10824745]

>>10824317
seconding suzuki, intro to zen and then essays in zen

7 chin!

[Anonymous No.10824761]

>>10824353
Shut up cuck

[Anonymous No.10824807]

>>10824353
Talk to a zen monk, anon. No irony.

[Anonymous No.10824823]

Zen Teaching of Bodhidharma
Zen Teachings of Huang Po
Instant Zen
Chan Whip

Would also recommend the works of Nan Huai Chin in chronological order, if you don't mind Zen mixed with other stuff. He was a recent teacher who was agreed to be enlightened by the Zen school, as well as the esoteric school and Taoist school. He recommended Zen as the best path. His student Bill Bodri is also worth checking out, particularly his book Measuring Meditation.

[Anonymous No.10824847]

I know Alan Watts will prob get shat on here but

[Anonymous No.10824865]

>>10824317

[Anonymous No.10824882]

First of all, Zen and Buddhism shouldn't be closely associated. Second of all, when people talk about 'Zen', they're referring to that Japanese Cult Buddhism that originated from Eihei Dogen with the whole Zazen prayer-meditation worship. Look up the Chinese Zen masters such as Zhaozhou, Deshan, Linji, Yunmen, Nanquan, etc.

[Anonymous No.10824897]

>>10824347
>>10824367
>>10824381
>>10824745
>>10824847
shut the fuck up
>>10824823
>>10824882
hello brothers

Sayings of Lin-Chi
Sayings of Zhaozou
Sayings Huangbo
Sayings of Yunmen
Sayings of Mazu
Original Teachings of Chan
The Blue Cliff Record
Mumonkan (the two aforementioned are required reading, if you can't penetrate even one case in either of them you can't into Zen)
The Book of Serenity
Sayings of Nanquan
Sayings of Foyan
Bloodstream Sermon
Outline of Practice
Hongren's Records
Sengcan's Records

here is the website and page you will want anon:

https://terebess.hu/zen/textindex.html

remember logic won't get you anywhere
>>10824865
hey look religious cultism, some Daoism and one Zen text, funny

[Anonymous No.10824908]

>>10824897
*yawn* any buddhism focusing on zazen is simply another form of materialism, no I'm not going to join your breath cult neuron farm

[Anonymous No.10824942]

>>10824908
yes Mazu and LinChi used to beat up old bald heads for shits and giggles

[Anonymous No.10824953]

Zen mind beginners mind
Zen and the birds of appetite

[Anonymous No.10825205]

>>10824908
You don't have to meditate, in fact thinking that is going to do anything is just an idea.

[Anonymous No.10825588]

>>10824339
Go back to /pol/.

[Anonymous No.10825652]

>>10824317
go away weeb

[Anonymous No.10826052]

>>10825588
Go back to red dit

[Anonymous No.10826055]

>>10824317
Western buddhism is some of the cringiest shite I have ever seen

[Anonymous No.10826068]

>>10824897
>hey look religious cultism,
you can't tell the difference can you? sad.
basically all those books are legit guides to purification, except the Elvis book not sure about that one

[Anonymous No.10826069]

>>10825588
/pol/ likes buddhism, ever since they found Evola
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbOgXfMcLoQ

[Anonymous No.10826070]

>>10826068
what did the Zen masters say about Christianity and Buddha-Jesus? can you tell me?
>purification
the mirror isn’t dirty maybe you’re spitting on it?

[Anonymous No.10826080]

>>10826070
>what did the Zen masters say about Christianity and Buddha-Jesus?
They dont have to say anything about other religions, but that doesnt invalidate other methods and paths. Not sure what you're even asking. But calling Ramana Maharshi or the philokalia "cult like" is retarded. Zen is extremely open and is primarily a methodology of observation, an honest zennist familiar with Maharshi's methods would find them beneficial and effective, not that they had to or should, but if you don't know what you're talking about it's best to remain silent.

>the mirror isn't dirty?
everyone has a dirty mirror when they first start.

[Anonymous No.10826084]

>>10826080
>an honest zennisr would find ‘x’ beneficial
do the patriarchs talk about yoga, sin and salvation in god’s kingdom anon or do your favorite religious figures talk about these things?
>everyone is
what about you, what do you see?

[Anonymous No.10826100]

>>10826069
You can't get more "/pol/" than Burmese Buddhism.

[Anonymous No.10826104]

>>10824897
OP, I would ignore this post and check out D.T. Suzuki's work on Zen Buddhism, as others have said. As far as writers who have introduced Zen to the West go, he was the foremost authority.

[Anonymous No.10826107]

>>10826084
>do the patriarchs talk about yoga, sin and salvation in god’s kingdom anon
they don't have to for those things to be true and beneficial for mankind.
But just to educate you...
The Ōbaku Zen school, founded in Japan during the 17th century retains the pure land idea of salvation, the need for a savior (Amida Buddha of Infinite Light) and has mindfulness and prayer practices centered around Buddha Amitābha, through recitation of his holy name and various sutras. It's a mix of pure land and zen.

[Anonymous No.10826111]

>>10826104
someone who can’t translate primary texts and hadn’t looked at most of them when he wrote his works isn’t an authority on anything. Zen in Japan isn’t Zen the school.

[Anonymous No.10826119]

>>10826111
>he couldn't translate...
Suzuki was also a prolific translator of Chinese, Japanese, and Sanskrit literature.

>zen in japan isn't zen the school
zen is japanese
if you want to talk about its chinese roots call it chan, but zen refers to the zen school of japan

[Anonymous No.10826121]

>>10826107
late Japanese Zen isn’t anything to do with the Patriarchs or Masters, Pure Land Buddhism isn’t anything to do with a school that doesn’t rely on a single thing (like a savior or prayer). Repeating Amithaba Buddha mantras like an insect chirping in the summer breeze is probably a good way to get punched in the face by a Zen master or embarassed to death. did you know they embarassed a man to death? they cut a cat in half too, and they burned their most important text, the wood blocks, the original blocks were destroyed by the commentator of the text.
>they don’t talk about what’s true or false
so what do you think they talk about anon?

[Anonymous No.10826125]

>>10826119
which Zen texts did DT Suzuki translate?
>zen is japanese
zen buddhism is Japanese, honest Japanese people know that Zen is the transliteration of Chan which comes from chan’na which is transliterated from dhyana which comes from the Lankavatara Sutra, the meditation school of Mahayana Buddhism in East India, brought to China by an Iranian prince. So when I say Zen, you can do the leg work to understand what’s being implied. Zen buddhism is Buddhism+Shintoism+Warrior Cult spirituality+Zen. That’s different from Zen though obviously, you can’t talk about Christianity while really talking about Thelema or Hermeticism.

[Anonymous No.10826143]

>>10826121
>so what do you think they talk about anon?
they talk about their fake buddha quotes from their fake sutras.
then they improve their posture and lower their bloodpressure by sitting, and that's all any zen master has ever achieved.

[Anonymous No.10826151]

This is a really nice book that contains wisdom from buddhism, taoism and confucianism, they really all say the same thing. Just in different forms.

The Book of Balance and Harmony

[Anonymous No.10826156]

>>10826151
>buddhism, taoism and confucianism
>they really all say the same thing
Wewlad

[Anonymous No.10826160]

>>10826104
Speaking of "/pol/", can you get any more "/pol/" than Suzuki?

[Anonymous No.10826175]

>>10826156
>wewlad
read the book and see for yourself.

[Anonymous No.10826180]

>>10826143
seems like something a Buddhist would do, like a Japanese Buddhist
>>10826160
interesting how the Zen practicioners of the 20th century found time to be militarist right wing zealots while also preaching the Buddha Dharma to their readers. Mishima and Suzuki, what a race, a noble temperate race of wits.

[Anonymous No.10826189]

>>10826180
>while also preaching the Buddha Dharma to their readers
You should read some of the sutras where the Buddha explicitly calls a clerico-police state ruled by iron-fisted priest-king ideal.

[Anonymous No.10826198]

>>10826189
you should read the Zen texts where Buddha is called a dried turd and Yunmen says he’d like to beat him to death, but then again im not a Japanese Zen Buddhist nor do I think Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism have any intellectual merit so you’re preaching to a wall

[Anonymous No.10826200]

>>10826189
Feel free to link these sutras.

[Anonymous No.10826205]

>>10826180
>interesting how the Zen practicioners of the 20th century found time to be militarist right wing zealots while also preaching the Buddha Dharma to their readers.
its not surprising since zen is primarily a methodology of observation, not a system of morals, it is even more removed from morality than orthodox buddhism is. It's quite similar to what happened in the upanishads when the war started and the prince realized his family members are among the enemy army fighting him, Lord Shiva said not to fear killing them since all humans are basically dead already, transient phenomena, unraveling as we speak

[Anonymous No.10826213]

>>10824317
Read the actual Tripitaka. Don't bother with secondary sources, half of them are new age bastardizations and none of them are wiser than Gotama himself.

[Anonymous No.10826214]

>>10826160
Care to elaborate? I never go to "/pol/" and disagree with them on virtually everything.

[Anonymous No.10826219]

>>10826205
>Zen is a system
no
>Zen is about observation of political and social mores
no
>Zen prescribes doing whatever the State tells you
then why did Huineng flee the persecution of Zennists?
>its just like this religious text i really like because im unfamiliar with the thing i should be talking about, so here’s an abstraction to distract from my ignorance
no

you still haven’t explained what nationalism, bushido code, emperor cultism, saviors, meditation and prayer have to do with what zen masters talk about. Do they talk about the State as an object of adoration, do they talk about Samurai code?

[Anonymous No.10826224]

>>10826214
What is there to elaborate on? Suzuki was a rabid fascist.

[Anonymous No.10826231]

"Zen Buddhism" is a blanket term for a number of different cults and new age belief systems.

If you want to learn about Zen then read what the Chinese Zen masters taught. It's that simple.

[Anonymous No.10826237]

>>10826231
>Chinese Zen masters
Which ones specifically.

[Anonymous No.10826241]

>>10824897
I screencapped this for reference later in life, thank you.

[Anonymous No.10826242]

>>10826237
Tang and Song. Mazu’s School, Lin-Chi’s School. Wumen is probably one of the last so stop around the time of his death. All the Patriarchs and also the proto-Chan buddhists but don’t take them too seriously they were still Taoists, it took time to develop into a potent lineage with Mazu

[Anonymous No.10826243]

>>10826224
He publicly denounced Nazism.

[Anonymous No.10826250]

>>10826219
zen is totally open, there is nothing it can't permeate, embody and take on, but whatever it takes on it does so without attachment and delusion, it knows what its getting into.

>you still haven’t explained what nationalism, bushido code, emperor cultism, saviors, meditation and prayer have to do with what zen masters talk about. Do they talk about the State as an object of adoration, do they talk about Samurai code?
I don't know what you want me to say, there is no contradiction between being an enlightened zen master and also a nationalist, a samurai, a monk, a president, a soldier, a painter, a sexual deviant (Hakuin), etc. You don't have to flee into the wilderness or some hermitage and recite sutras all day. Zen allows you to engage with the world without attachment, and lets not forget zen says very little if anything about morality.

>>10826224
>Suzuki was a rabid fascist.
this is one of his saving graces.

[Anonymous No.10826252]

>>10826243
And so did everybody else after they lost.

[Anonymous No.10826255]

>>10826237
those chinese mahayana masters were also new age cultists, who fabricated new age scriptures and new age ideas (bodhisattva ideal) compared to their orthodox ancestors within actual buddhism (hinayana/theravada)

[Anonymous No.10826256]

>>10826237
Bodhidharma, Sengcan, Huineng, Huang Po, Joshu, Yunmen, Mumon

[Anonymous No.10826264]

>>10824823
>Bodhidharma
who's that guy, heard him mentioned a few times

[Anonymous No.10826268]

>>10826264
red haired, blue eyed viking who taught chinks how to think properly

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbVx0_7YmaE

[Anonymous No.10826269]

>>10826264
he's the OG

[Anonymous No.10826273]

>>10826252
But Suzuki did it in the 30s.

[Anonymous No.10826281]

>>10824882
>>10824897
>>10825205
>>10826111
>>10826121
>>10826231
t. reddit zen

[Anonymous No.10826285]

>>10826250
>zen is totally open
there are men who tell lies when they tell truths and there are men who only tell truths even when they lie. i don’t see you as the first nor do i see suzuki
>it takes on everything
availability and permeability are not the same, you might be confusing Daoism with Zen that’s a typical conflation that westerners who admire Japanese Zen make. For instance Christian Zen is probably the least like what Totally Unbounded By Obstruction could be in this age.
>one can be evil
you haven’t read Bodhidharma, Huineng or Zhaozou, or Mazu. They actually do strongly state that not being able to tell the difference is blindness and attaching to one or the other is falsity. So, seeing that Nationalist Fascism is obviously evil and predicated upon killing, a value that’s basically also evil in all Zen and Buddhist and Daoist contexts, seems like one would also not attach to that obvious evil. Zen masters don’t murder people for fun.
>you don’t have to flee into the wilderness
why did the 6th patriarch leave when they beheaded all his friends?
>recite sutras all day
no Zen master recites sutras all day because they have to do anything. i think you were using a saying and then not applying it yourself before, freedom, and now you think that it doesn’t apply when it would be disadvantageous to a view you personally hold and are interpolating into an epistemological-soterilogical alogical school based on a lineage the japanese have nothing to do with at all.
>Zen allows
no
>Zen allows you to engage with the world without attachment
no Zen is seeing the True Self Nature, there is only one activity
>a samurai
no Zen master served in the military after receiving Dharma Seal, no Zen master spent time licking the asshole of Emperors they were afraid of

no zen master taught anything about reading sutras or making offerings to imperial cults and encouraging obedience to the State, at any point, at any time. But of course if you take the skeleton of the zen writings and then twist them into shinto-pure land buddhism with fascist feudalist state values attached as a chimera, you can argue whatever you want if the person you’re talking to: is a weakling, agrees with you, is ignorant or so disinterested in the truth that they’ll let blatant lies stand without challenge

fascism breeds off of those 3 things, weak people, group-think (zen isn’t about groups either, there is a sect, but you don’t get to talk about We), and of course ignorant and disinterested subhumans.

[Anonymous No.10826286]

>>10826268
so is zen actually just indoeuropean tradition in disguise like every other single religion in the world?

[Anonymous No.10826292]

>>10826285
is zen useless in the modern world then? i can understand the point in a rigid culture where everything is clearly demarcated, but in the current world of degeneration seems like just be piling up more freedom on top of the absolute degeneration that reigns

[Anonymous No.10826294]

>>10826268
he was an Indo-Iranian you dumb fucking whigger

[Anonymous No.10826295]

>>10826285
>Zen masters don’t murder people for fun.
but they probably would just to make a point

[Anonymous No.10826298]

tfw reached enlightenment just by realizing it

[Anonymous No.10826300]

>>10826294
Iranian literally means aryan

[Anonymous No.10826303]

>>10826285
>you can be evil
never said that, you're assuming being nationalist or a soldier or samurai is evil? you're assuming war is inherently evil? wew. t.brainlet

>Zen masters don’t murder people for fun.
Right. But they can kill people in a dispassionate way, if they have to, in war, or if its their social duty say as police or samurai.

[Anonymous No.10826304]

>>10826298
>tfw reached enlightenment just by getting enlightened

[Anonymous No.10826305]

>>10826286
Indo-Aryan from India, Bodhidharma was an Iranic not a Nord or a White person from europe. He was a caucasoid with blue eyes.
>>10826292
Why not just read what they said? Do they talk about fucking men and doing opium?
>>10826295
anything to help the person, do you think Emperor Hirohito was helping the Chinese or the Japanese or anyone he conquered when he was murdering them? Or maybe he was just exterminating his enemies and helping himself and his allies?

[Anonymous No.10826309]

>>10826285
>So, seeing that Nationalist Fascism is obviously evil and predicated upon killing
HAHAHAHAHHA
he swallowed the dumb goy libshit pill

[Anonymous No.10826310]

>>10826305
>Why not just read what they said? Do they talk about fucking men and doing opium?
didn't they say the books where useless and just to burn them? i'm afraid that if i read them i'll get contaminated and i can't be zen anymore

[Anonymous No.10826313]

>>10826305
>do you think Emperor Hirohito was helping the Chinese or the Japanese
he was kind of cute

[Anonymous No.10826316]

>>10826200
just google "Cakkavattisihanada Sutta" and "Dasavidha-rajadhamma", suttacentral has become unusable and deleted like half of their shit so I can't find anything.

[Anonymous No.10826319]

>>10826300
Aryan doesn’t mean nordic-germanic white person, ahistorical use of a term doesn’t make a person a different race than they actually were.
>>10826303
>is killing millions of people to expand your empire evil
yes, and I would imagine almost all Chinese mystics would agree with this, you might be reading your own view into this but generally people who pay attention to what Buddha and Laozi said don’t think aggressive expansions genocidal warfare is just or good for the people. Emperors do, but they don’t write books like that do they?
>they can kill people in a dispassionate way
people who think they’re Zen can do lots of things in a “dispassionate” way anon, like you’re right now arguing for genocide being a zen teaching in an ostensibly dispassionate way.
>if its their social duty
where do the masters talk about doing social duties like being soldiers in genocidal expansionist wars anon? I remember, eat, sleep, shit, wash your bowl. Do laymen have the understanding of a Zen master? Is it smart to call people who know about quantum physics quantum physicists? do people who study a little bit of it as an undergrad get to call themselves quantum physicists if they stop as a senior and go to bomb arabs for the military?

[Anonymous No.10826320]

>>10826316
best edition in english of the middle length discourses? i have to read them and it would be nice to have them in paper

[Anonymous No.10826323]

>>10826319
>Aryan doesn’t mean nordic-germanic white person
nobody said it did, german tribes were eating their own shit until they got romanized

[Anonymous No.10826325]

>>10826309
a mentally ill con artist in pic related, and a monkey screeching at me for not bending over and taking it from the ten other bigger monkeys he’s trapped in his cage with
>>10826310
you need to hear about something before you can reject it right? why not read about it and then burn the book>>10826313
has Himmler physiognomy, tiny monster

[Anonymous No.10826327]

>>10826319
>where do the masters talk about doing social duties like being soldiers in genocidal expansionist wars anon? I remember, eat, sleep, shit, wash your bowl. Do laymen have the understanding of a Zen master? Is it smart to call people who know about quantum physics quantum physicists? do people who study a little bit of it as an undergrad get to call themselves quantum physicists if they stop as a senior and go to bomb arabs for the military?
so is zen just about being a proud pleb basically?

[Anonymous No.10826330]

>>10826325
>you need to hear about something before you can reject it right? why not read about it and then burn the book

[Anonymous No.10826332]

>>10826320
BDK America.

[Anonymous No.10826341]

>>10826281
I don't think that every cult who uses the word Zen should become a part of the Zen canon.

Does that somehow mean I'm "Reddit"?

[Anonymous No.10826342]

>>10826319
>japan, like germany, woke up one day and decided to take over the world! EVIL!
holy shit your reading of history is atrocious, no wonder you have a knee jerk reaction to any sort of "nationalism" and think it involves or necessarily leads to genocide

>people who think they’re Zen can do lots of things in a “dispassionate” way anon, like you’re right now arguing for genocide
im not arguing for genocide, you're straight up lying. it's possible to kill in self defense or do you think that's evil too? its possible to protect your nation from enemies, or is that evil too?

>where do the masters talk about doing social duties like being soldiers
there is no reason to be "moral" in Zen
you're totally confused

[Anonymous No.10826343]

>>10826332
any notable differences between the chinese Madhyama Āgama and the pali Majjhima Nikaya? didn't even know the chinese version existed

[Anonymous No.10826345]

>>10826323
the Aryans of India and Iran aren’t the same population as the other Steppe groups that mixed with WHG’s and EEF’s to make modern Nordics and Germanics. Calling Bodhidharm an Aryan doesn’t mean anything besides his being from ethnic groups that were native to that region, Aryavarta and Iran.

[Anonymous No.10826349]

>>10826341
wasn't the word zen invented by the japs? why call chinese zen zen when it's not even a chinese word?

[Anonymous No.10826355]

>>10826345
why do they have the same religious elements in tibet then? just as a meme?

[Anonymous No.10826360]

>>10826349
We're speaking English. We don't have to use Chinese words. It just so happens that the Japanese are the ones who introduced the lineage of Bodhidharma to the western world.

[Anonymous No.10826362]

Why Zen appeals so much to westerners?

[Anonymous No.10826365]

>>10826342
>they weren’t doing what they did do because the intention that spurred what they did, which is what you said, which i can’t deny because i can’t lie too much, was in fact different than my straw man
>im not arguing for a genocide
no the Nazis and Japanese were, and that’s why they committed genocides
>its possible to kill in self defense?
yes people kill others and then say its in self defense. that’s possible people would do that and say such things about it.
>is it evil to do and say that
well the killing is evil, the saying it might be too. depends if the person is evil and trying to cover up a crime like genocide and stealing land, or was trying to stop someone from strangling them and they have witnesses who saw them being strangled or nuked or invaded. When the Russians were invaded and then killed the invading Germans that was self defense, when they steam rolled eastern europe, crushing dissent and then raped their way to berlin that seemed like the first kind of “Self defense”
>ignores what i said
you said you can be a soldier, i asked two things: can someone who isn’t an actual thing be the thing without being it because they left to go do something else. the second was, when do zen masters show themselves as being conscripted into the military after they receive the dharma seal? show me an example of them doing this and show an example of them praising nationalism and the emperor and talking about how its zen to do your duty to the state to kill enemies.

if you can’t listen i can’t talk

[Anonymous No.10826368]

>>10826362
Zen doesn't challenge their atheistic-liberal-secular-nihilistic worldview they were indoctrinated to have.

[Anonymous No.10826372]

>>10826360
they introduced the jap version that according to you is degenerate, why use the same word for the original non-degenerate version then?

[Anonymous No.10826373]

>>10826345
>>10826323
>>10826319
>>10826286
>>10826294
>>10826300
"Aryan" isn't even an ethnic denominator you plebs. It means something closer to "noble."

[Anonymous No.10826379]

>>10826362
because zen is the ultimate smug religion, a good fit for fedora types

[Anonymous No.10826384]

>>10826355
Tibet is next to china and India, they received Zen the same way Japs received their alphabet, by being in proximity. The tibetan talent for Buddhism is probably due to their shamanic religiosity and clandestine lifestyle mixing well with the Buddha Dharma. You won’t find Zen in Iran or Norway though

[Anonymous No.10826387]

>>10826365
>killing in self defense is evil and just an excuse people make
Ok I'm done talking to libshit weeabos

[Anonymous No.10826390]

>>10826368
this^
same reason Sam Harris masturbates to buddhism

[Anonymous No.10826391]

>>10826373
> It means something closer to "noble."
that's because that ethnicity was literally an aristocracy ruling over different races and ultimately mixing themselves with them out of existence

just like the spanish kings were usually germanic, a small foreign minority ruling over a country is nothing special really and happened all the time everywhere

[Anonymous No.10826406]

>>10826391
the word meant Noble because it denoted people who were Nobles. the word in its religious context means Noble as in righteous. in its linguistic context its just a regional and historical denotation for the Indo-Iranians of the early-mid antiquity period.
>Germanic kings of Spain
all of them or just some? how many?
>happened everywhere
really the Han weren’t ruling over mostly their own ethnic group
>mixed them out of existence
there are more dravs now than before and the dravs are older than the aryans. you do realize the Aryans had black hair, tanned skin and looked like slightly more robust versions of the current Indian elite yeah? They weren’t blonde nords anon

[Anonymous No.10826408]

>>10826372
Zen isn't a word for "cults who use the word Zen to get people interested" or anything like that. It's simply the Japanese word for Chan.

[Anonymous No.10826415]

>>10826343
Mostly vocable, other extremely minor differences include extra words or sentences that can't be found in one but not the other.

[Anonymous No.10826417]

>>10826408
but it never referred to chinese chan, only now modern edgy atheists want to change the meaning for smug reasons

[Anonymous No.10826420]

>tfw dumb whitebois think Zen is just about "emptying your mind" and "going with the flow" and sand gardens

[Anonymous No.10826436]

>>10826420
zen is just a butchered form of buddhism
morality is only secondary in orthodox buddhism, a means to an end (means to nirvana), the precepts help you on the path, once you are enlightened you are free, beyond good and evil, no need for the 'raft'.
but zen says you're already enlightened and there are no means to enlightenment, its already here. so morality isn't even secondary or supplemental to zen, its actually nothing at all

[Anonymous No.10826447]

>>10826408
do you think maybe propaganda could be used by religious, even state authorities who have a vested interest in revising history, by pruposefully concocting fake stories of enlightenment and transmission, literacy, being able to eloquently speak and write in the language you purportedly learned the teaching from?

[Anonymous No.10826449]

>>10826436
They use phrases like that as a way to break out of conception notions of "enlightenment", "liberation", etc.

Make no mistake, Zen is still **all about** morality, devotion, right practice, asceticism, restraint, taming the passions, reading sutras, etc., everything your average Westener would be averse too.

The whole "don't aim for enlightenment, just be" is just a specific type of meditative instruction that is still intrinsically interwoven with the Buddhadharma.

[Anonymous No.10826455]

>>10826415
>vocable
This doesn't seem like the right word.

Anyway, Prof Bhikkhu Analayo did a massive comparative study and came to the conclusion there's zero evidence that either canon is more faithful than the other but they both are faithful to each other, does that make sense?

[Anonymous No.10826466]

>>10826447
what is this? a conspiracy theory? the russians ruined zen?

[Anonymous No.10826473]

>>10826417
Zen was largely introduced to the west by D. T. Suzuki, who used the term to refer to the lineage started by the Chinese patriarchs. His work was mostly on the modern state of this lineage (he believed that religions evolve over time, and he did refer to Zen as a religion). But to pretend that the term did not refer to the Chinese lineage is ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.10826487]

>>10826473
it referred to that evolved tradition, not to the roots ignoring the new parts, it makes no sense to pretend it never contained the new parts and there's the original chan word if you want to refer exclusively to the original chink parts

[Anonymous No.10826488]

>>10824317
>What the Buddha Taught
>Majjhima Nikaya
>Become Theravadan instead of zen
>Realise buddhism is a death cult
>Become Christian orthodox, which is very near buddhism but without anatta and nirvana
>Discover hesychasm

[Anonymous No.10826490]

>>10826447
All sorts of agendas have tried and succeeded in revising Zen history. I strongly advocate that people use their common sense and ability to research to determine what texts are legitimate, and to what extent they are legitimate.

[Anonymous No.10826492]

>>10826488
>"when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray"
literally becoming closeted

[Anonymous No.10826495]

>>10826490
that's history, if enlightenment is possible the story of a tradition is irrelevant as long as it works

[Anonymous No.10826496]

>>10826492
Enter your heart

[Anonymous No.10826502]

>>10826496

[Anonymous No.10826503]

>>10826487
D. T. Suzuki rejected the Japanese cults and also rejected many (though not nearly all) of the common misbeliefs about Zen. I'm not seeing your point.

And don't do yourself the disservice of pretending that the term "Zen" can't be used when speaking specifically about the Patriarchs.

[Anonymous No.10826507]

>>10826488
>Going back to monotheism, religions full of shame, guilt and self-hatred
Pretty sure that's the real death cult. The Orthodox even say "Death unto the world".

[Anonymous No.10826545]

>>10824317
That looks pretty boring. Why would anyone do that?

[Anonymous No.10826617]

>>10826545
>doing things for entertainment
>>>/b/

[Anonymous No.10826736]

anyway, i hope you all get enlightened, or realize that you are already enlightened, or whatever the meme religion you believe in or not-believe in says you should do, have a nice day

[Anonymous No.10826899]

>>10824865
>holy bible among new age trash
lmao

[Anonymous No.10826955]

>>10824317
i liked this book as an overall overview of a few concepts of zen

be aware that this is zen in the bigger sense of the japanese and korean traditions that were influenced by chinese chan, if you only want the purity chan thing that only the chinese original guys did then this book is not for you

[Anonymous No.10827008]

Shikantaza or vipasanna? What should i spend hours sitting around doing?

[Anonymous No.10827018]

>>10827008
Also if i just sit and watch my breath and then watch my thoughts arise and fall away, is that all i really need to do? I find it extremely anxiety producing sitting in silence

[Anonymous No.10827023]

White Buddhists are the most obnoxious people on the planet.

[Anonymous No.10827026]

>>10827008
vipasanna has more detailed writing about it, so if you are going to do it the NEET way without a teacher do that

if you can find a decent teacher do whatever

[Anonymous No.10827104]

>>10827018
>Also if i just sit and watch my breath and then watch my thoughts arise and fall away, is that all i really need to do? I find it extremely anxiety producing sitting in silence
working through the anxiety is part of the work, and no, that's not all you need to do, i don't know about zen, but in the Theravada tradition there are The Five Spiritual Faculties which you can google if you want that have to exercise and balance in your path:

- faith (saddhā): you can translate this as "confidence" as well, it is the security you build up in yourself that the work can be done until you get to see reality by yourself, you also accept some doctrines that are not available to you to comprehend intellectually as dogma
- wisdom (pañña): this is knowledge you gain by reading books and studying
- energy/perseverance (viriya): this is the grit and work you put into working on your path
- concentration (samādhi): this 1 of the things you work on when you are meditating, you still your mind, concentrate on 1 object (usually your breath), and applying perseverance (viriya) you achieve different degrees of tranquility, you may also achieve different altered states of consciousness. Concentration (samādhi) DOES NOT LEAD TO LIBERATION, it is just an skill that help and has to be put into the service of the next point
- mindfulness (sati): this is investigating reality as it happens without getting caught in it. you investigate the 3 marks of suffering in all phenomena (impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and non-self), note that in buddhism phenomena is considered the 5 senses + thought is the 6th sense, you would treat any thought as you would any physical sensation

a normal way to start working on this would be to work on your concentration until your mind of still enough that you can start working on your mindfulness, also read books and live a relatively moral life

[Anonymous No.10827160]

>>10827008
you should do samatha if you do not know the purpose of vipassana. You can kick start the relaxation by doing it on the back in bed, and put a eye mask on the forehead to get to feel the point of pressure of ''vibrations'' on the ''third eye''

[Anonymous No.10827162]

[Anonymous No.10827174]

Didn't Descartes absolutely btfo anatman?

[Anonymous No.10827189]

>>10827174
he actually didn't, it's a well known defect that of the argument that when he does the:
>I think, therefore I am
>I think,
it would be more accurate to say:
>there's thought,
and then you can't really extract a thinker from thought without further justifying it, instead he just does a sleight of hand and introduces the "I" in the first part of the argument, then he points to it in the second part

[Anonymous No.10827228]

>>10827189
You don't need the "I", there's something thinking and it therefore exists, doesn't matter if it's "you" or something else. Anatman is still btfo'd, by the combined forces of Descartes and the Hindus.

[Anonymous No.10827270]

>>10827228
>doesn't matter if it's "you" or something else
there's no you or something else, there's just thought, you are artificially introducing elements

[Anonymous No.10827575]

>>10826507
yeah but no annihilation

[Anonymous No.10827620]

>>10826214
>I never go on /pol/
>but i disagree with them on virtually everything
Boards are not singular entities, and if you never go there, how do you know you disagree with them on virtually everything?

[Anonymous No.10827627]

>>10826224
>my emotive political indoctrination has a place in discussion of anything, let alone religion/philosophy

[Anonymous No.10827631]

>>10827270
...and there's no thought without thinker. Are you sure you want to continue?

[Anonymous No.10827657]

Taking the Path of Zen, by Robert Aitken.

[Anonymous No.10827668]

>>10826285
>Nationalist Fascism is obviously evil and predicated upon killing, a value that’s basically also evil in all Zen and Buddhist and Daoist contexts, seems like one would also not attach to that obvious evil. Zen masters don’t murder people for fun.
Ah, I see. You're just a random ideologue pushing liberalism.

[Anonymous No.10827727]

>>10826390
Wrong. He masturbates to Buddhism because Buddhism is essentially psychophilosophical. Whereas most religions, especially Abrahamic, are completely hollow. Can't even be considered loosely philosophical. Devoid of anything more than children's bedtime stories. The different is one has actual content and wisdom.

Buddhism doesn't go well with this so-called atheistic-liberal-secular-nihilistic slur you posit, either. Nor does Zen. You'd know this if you actually read books.

[Anonymous No.10827745]

>>10826436
Make sure you read this >>10826449, fucking blind retard.

[Anonymous No.10827750]

>>10827631
>...and there's no thought without thinker.
again, you are introducing a thinker arbitrarily, going to sleep now, bye

[Anonymous No.10827765]

>>10826151
>>10826156
>>10826175
Not that anon but consider that from the point of view of the west there might be plenty of similarities, since the west is so different from the east in the first place. That's why western books on the east may pass off the impression that the differences between them are trivial, or a simple misunderstanding and that at their heart, they are the same. To anyone who is truly into one or more of those things, the differences are huge.

[Anonymous No.10827786]

>>10827270
You are the thought. There is no baser 'you' that the though springs from, your existence is predicated upon the thought.

[Anonymous No.10829126]

>>10826281
>reading from Zen masters directly is reddit

[Anonymous No.10829168]

>>10826309
>>10827668
t. postmodern computermales
you are ripe for fascism because you are degraded beings. your bondage to liberalism or to fascism is similar, because you did not grow out of liberalism to become fascist. you simply turned the coin, as credulous as always.

[Anonymous No.10829174]

>>10829126

Probably is a Soto cultist who does Zazen prayer-meditation.

[Anonymous No.10829210]

>>10827786
what about that which observes the thought

[Anonymous No.10829402]

I'm really conflicted when I see threads like these, or anyone in public talk about Buddhism

The lack of clarity that comes with it, for whatever reason because Im sure all of you have a boogeyman for why it happens, leads to this infighting.

Western philosophy is such a better path

[Anonymous No.10829704]

>>10829402
>Western philosophy

[Anonymous No.10829930]

>>10827575
there is no annihilation in esoteric Buddhism you pleb
>>10826503
he didn't he embraced Pure Land Buddhism and was a Fascist in the 30's who wanted Jews to get removed forcibly
>>10827668
Wrong. But, if you feel the only people who oppose Fascism are liberals or leftists you are beginning to resemble liberals in their narrow minded conceit now aren't you?
>>10829126
/r/zen is one of the only places on the internet where Tibetan Zen is tacitly understood or where Soto Zen is challenged for being a meditation cult predicated on illegitimate transmission
>>10829402
>The lack of clarity that comes with it, for whatever reason because Im sure all of you have a boogeyman for why it happens, leads to this infighting
There is not, and has never been a unified body of thought in "Buddhism" or Buddha Dharma, I'm sorry you fell for orientalist nonsense
>Western Philosophy
has nothing to say about the Self Nature that isn't predicated upon doctrine or argument. Thus it is not adequate for dealing with what Taoism and Zen specifically deal with.

[Anonymous No.10830796]

>>10829402
that's because Buddhism is about direct insight, not about rational argumentation, so western philosophy doesn't have anything to do with this except for Plato and some of the people following him

[Anonymous No.10831023]

>>10830796
>that's because Buddhism is about direct insight, not about rational argumentation
nah, some schools/patriarchs went full autism with the logic and rational argumentation, see Nagarjuna or Asanga/Abhidharma school, Nyaya, etc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_logico-epistemology

>>10829930
>he didn't he embraced Pure Land Buddhism and was a Fascist in the 30's who wanted Jews to get removed forcibly
quite a few zen masters were against the jews actually, surprising they saw through their tricks so quickly

[Anonymous No.10831033]

>>10829402
>Buddhism is so unclear
>Western philosophy is such a better path

kierkegaard_describing_the_self.mp3
hegel_explaining_anything.mp3
judith_butler_worst_sentences_ever.wav
zizek_metaphysics_of_toilets.jpg
kant_justifies_pure_reason_but_doesn't.exe
plotinus_explains_seeing_the_One.epub
descartes_proves_God_with_wax.gif

[Anonymous No.10831044]

>>10827745
under zen buddhism, why should one be moral, please explain

[Anonymous No.10831057]

>>10827727
>Whereas most religions, especially Abrahamic, are completely hollow
kek. then why did the Abrahamic faiths produce equally great (if not superior) saints and sages?

[Anonymous No.10831255]

>>10826084
>>10826121
Not him but what the fuck are you trying to say

[Anonymous No.10831276]

>>10826362
Same reason it appeals to Easterners: it's right.

[Anonymous No.10831279]

>>10831057
There's no such thing as an "Abrahamic faith", you nitwit.

(What next, you citing the "great sage Judeo-Christ"?)

[Anonymous No.10831283]

>>10831279
"Abrahamic faiths" refers to the big 3 semitic religions who draw upon Abraham as a prophet. Islam, Christianity, Judaism.

>(What next, you citing the "great sage Judeo-Christ"?)
??

[Anonymous No.10831305]

>>10827627
>Religion/philosophy can be isolated from politics, and vice versa

[Anonymous No.10831313]

Make sure to avoid everything that isn't Rinzai.

Warrior Zen > Farmer Zen

[Anonymous No.10831317]

>>10831283
> "Abrahamic faiths" refers to the big 3 semitic religions who draw upon Abraham as a prophet. Islam, Christianity, Judaism.
The three religions have nothing in common except mutual hate.

>??
A "Judeo-Christ" is a contradiction in terms, as is the phrase "Judeo-Christian values".

[Anonymous No.10831331]

>>10831283
It includes many more religions too, ackchually -- e.g. Samaritans.
>>10827727
Nigger Christianity is one of the most autistically philosophical religions out there.

[Anonymous No.10831388]

>>10831331
>It includes many more religions too, ackchually -- e.g. Samaritans.
sure but those are tiny and trivial. the big 3 are still the big 3.
no one thinks "bahai" when someone says Abrahamic faith.

>>10831317
>The three religions have nothing in common except mutual hate.
>nothing in common
they have enough in common to be called Abrahamic

>>10831317
>A "Judeo-Christ" is a contradiction in terms, as is the phrase "Judeo-Christian values".
sure, so?

[Anonymous No.10831960]

To the anon who recommended Green's Joshu: enjoying it. Thank$.

[Anonymous No.10832995]

>>10829402
Buddhism is roughly about the acceptance of a lack of clarity. Anything our minds work toward, no matter how complex or refined, is relevant only insofar as our minds are involved.
Life's a game our brains play to make sense of the world around them. When you were a baby, you didn't know how to play, but your parents and the world around you taught you. As you live, you teach the people around you how to play the game. Everything under "Western Philosophy" is within that game.
That said, there's nothing wrong with playing the game, if it's fun for you. It's also wise to realize that it's the only game we realistically have to play.

[Anonymous No.10833042]

>>10829402
That's because Westerners don't know shit about Buddhism, It's actually really fucking simple and the Buddha himself was obsessed with clarity; If somebody came to asking what he meant when he said something he'd explain it again in a even simpler manner, he would often do this multiple times because a monk, king, scholar and peasant would often ask him the same questions.

[Anonymous No.10833160]

>>10826362
>Why Zen appeals so much to westerners?
you don't have to join a debate club first. Meaning: the basic concept is easy "if you get it" however, that is the whole joke of the endless zen talk that can't be talked. it's like the wind, it goes easily under every girls skirt. or it is because zen style (minimalism) is beautiful and merges easily with modern aesthetics

[Anonymous No.10833168]

>>10826368
also this! probably the main reason. but i also plead for aesthetics

[Anonymous No.10833221]

>>10826545
sleeping can also seem boring to a viewer, however the sleeper might experience interesting dreams, maybe even lucid dreams. it is not always possible to see what going on

[Anonymous No.10833270]

>>10831044
because it pollutes your mind. not in a moral sense, but in a egoistic sense. killing someone goes against your purification because it leads to emotional disturbances

[Anonymous No.10834382]

y

[Anonymous No.10834420]

kaya is just the Vedic counterpart of the god Ka. Ka is the self made actual. Ka is Prajapati made selves, like you and me.
That is to say a self to be felt through the fields (ayatanani) of senses (salayatana).
It is just what is called in philosophy “the actualization of a potential”.
It retains the same meaning in Buddhism - with a major difference.
In Vedism, kaya (lit. “what belongs to Ka”) is continuous and blissful (brings happiness).
In Buddhism, it can’t be. (anicca and dukkha).

As far as what are the particularities of" what belongs to Ka" are concerned, it can be summarized as follows, and holds both in Vedism and Buddhism:

Kaya is an organ (like eye, ear,… brain). It has the particular function of “gluing” the other organs together. It is very close to prana (breath), which is the chief of the organs in Vedism.

Kaya is not like a mere mano - that is to say - a mere “orchestrator” of the organs - but the “glue” that holds the all body and its organs together.
Its vital function is also “touching”.
It is therefore the all shebang of the sensuous realm of a personal self.
But it is also Ka as Prajapati, Brahma and Atma. It also deals with the (liberated) citta, out of this (world of senses) - within the different higher spheres.

In Buddhism, this actual form of the Atma>Brahma>Prajapati, as seen by the Vedist, as continuous and blissful, is a wrong view. Even in the higher spheres (like the Brahma world, for instance).

There can’t be continuity and blissfulness in paticcasamuppada.
Sakkāyadiṭṭhi (the Vedic view of a continuous and blissful Ka) is just a wrong view.
All actualisations (sensuous or not), of the organs or the khandhas, are impermanent and dukkha.

[Anonymous No.10834421]

>>10824317
>>10824339
>>10824347
>>10824823
>>10824847
>>10824953
>>10825205
>>10826055
>6055▶
>>>10824317 (OP)
>>10826231
>>10826281
>>10826298
>>10826341
>>10826362
>>10826420
>>10826488
>>10827008
>>10829126
>>10829402
zen buddhism is soccer mom spin class yoga brand buddhism
you cannot prove me wrong

[Anonymous No.10834424]

zen Buddhism is just Doaism with
>ooh watch me float
>we must be silent
>graybeard mfs

[Anonymous No.10834559]

[Anonymous No.10835681]

>>10824347
shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.10835694]

https://terebess.hu/zen/UnfetteredMind.pdf

you can throw out everything else

if you are able to ask yourself the questions that these series of letters imply, you don't need anything else.
if you can't manage, you will probably never understand - your temperament is all wrong and you are too old

[Anonymous No.10835709]

Buddhism is literally brainwashing yourself into thinking your wife getting fucked by another man is okay and you shouldn't want to do anything about it. It's literally the cuckold religion.

[Anonymous No.10835715]

>>10835709
this

buddhism and christianity are for cucks

Islam is the real deal, you get to fuck kuffar bitches and live in luxury as a sultan

[Anonymous No.10835717]

>>10835709
same genus, different species of morality. spengler and nietzsche conflate them too recklessly. zen is also not the same as nearly all forms of buddhism and has very little if any similarities with stoicism

[Anonymous No.10835724]

>>10834421
>Zen Buddhism only exists in the west

[Anonymous No.10835729]

>>10835709
>he bought into the "enlightenment is apathy" meme

[Anonymous No.10835813]

>>10835694
t. weeb

[Anonymous No.10835818]

>>10835709
that's stoicism not buddhism, you can't have a wife in buddhism

[Anonymous No.10835838]

>>10835818
if you get enlightenment and you don't become a monk that same day you literally die
>Milindapanha III.19
>"You say that if a layman attains arahantship he must either enter the Order that very day or die and attainparinibbàna. Yet if he is unable to find a robe and bowl and preceptor then that exalted condition of arahantship is a waste, for destruction of life is involved in it."
>"The fault does not lie with arahantship but with the state of a layman, because it is too weak to support arahantship. Just as, O king, although food protects the life of beings it will take away the life of one whose digestion is weak; so too, if a layman attains arahantship he must, because of the weakness of that condition, enter the Order that very day or die."

[Anonymous No.10835886]

>>10835838
>milindapanha

[Anonymous No.10835908]

>>10835886
>The Milinda Pañha ("Questions of Milinda") is a Buddhist text which dates from sometime between 100 BCE and 200 CE. It purports to record a dialogue between the Buddhist sage Nāgasena, and the Indo-Greek king Menander I (Pali: Milinda) of Bactria, who reigned from Sagala (modern Sialkot, Pakistan).
so everything comes back to the fucking greeks once again?

[Anonymous No.10835963]

>>10835908
>he thought starting with the greeks was a meme

[Anonymous No.10836267]

>>10824339
this
and Jesus was a liberal sissy faggot

[Anonymous No.10836380]

>>10824347
alan watts is an awfull writer, but he's a good speaker

[Anonymous No.10836480]

what is the website which list all the suttas found which are both in Pali and in chinese?

Those suttas are nothing but the ones in the Samyutta Nikaya?

[Anonymous No.10838054]

>>10835908
Kek