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/lit/ - Literature

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10813520 No.10813520 [Reply] [Original]

This is my problem with Stoicism

>With everything which entertains you, is useful, or of which you are fond, remember to say to yourself, beginning with the very least things, "What is its nature?" If you are fond of a jug, say, "I am fond of a jug"; for when it is broken you will not be disturbed. If you kiss your own child or wife, say to yourself that you are kissing a human being; for when it dies you will not be disturbed.

>Never say about anything, "I have lost it," but only "I have given it back." Is your child dead? It has been given back. Is your wife dead? She has been given back. "I have had my farm taken away." Very well, this too has been given back. "Yet it was a rascal who took it away." But what concern is it of yours by whose instrumentality the Giver called for its return? So long as He gives it you, take care of it as of a thing that is not your own, as travellers treat their inn.

Hey your child and wife are dead but no big deal it's just nature - Epictetus

>> No.10813536

>>10813520
>Hey your child and wife are dead but no big deal it's just nature - Epictetus

It's harsh, but then so is the world we live in.
Is crying about it for the rest of your life any better?

>> No.10813538

>your
Who is this "you"

>> No.10813542

my problem with stoics is the story in noctus atticae where some faggy stoic is on a ship caught in a storm and he turns pale as shit and looks shook, then after the storm is over and everyone survived some asiatic chad laughs at him like "lol so much for stoicism, pussy", of course the guy has some twitter/4chan tier comeback like "well i was scared because if i died i would lose valuable life but u didnt care cuz if u died ur only losing the life of a shitlord so no loss" but it still goes to show u stoics talk a good game but when the shit hits they fan they just as emotional and bitchassed as any pantywaist intellectual

>> No.10813570

>>10813536
It is but it's a child of yours is not as a same level as another human being or an object

>> No.10813587

>>10813520
the stoics say it's okay and natural to grieve, but to ruminate is bad.

Your wife and kid died, that sucks--go ahead and cry.

But don't spend years in sorrow because of it.

>> No.10813599

Keep in mind this is the Stoic ideal, something to strive for. I doubt any of the stoic philosophers would actually expect this from anyone.

>> No.10813609

>>10813587
This, how hard is it for people to grasp this very basic idea? It's like people are deliberately misunderstanding so they can shit on stoicism.

>> No.10813614

>>10813609
stoicism is the most uninsightful shit ever, wow don't be too emotional, holy shit what a deep insight, i thought it was a good idea to wail and cry and get buttblasted about everything in life, you mean i should chill the fuck out? woah mind fucking blown

>> No.10813630

>>10813520

Is the guy who has two degrees (in Philosophy and Literature) and hates stoicism in this thread?

>> No.10813663

>>10813614
Have you considered that it doesn't seem deep to you because of thousands of years of stoic philosophy affecting your thought?

>> No.10813676
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10813676

>>10813614
yes, so easy and simple and yet everyone wails and cries and gets buttblasted about everything in life, just look at this entire website.
you'd be amazed by the quantity of useless thoughts and emotions you let your mind fester on.
since i started applying stoic principles and disciplining my mind the quality of my life improved exponentially, self deprecating thoughts are demolished instantly, useless emotions get quickly controlled and unable to order me around. its like life on easymode.

>> No.10813685

>>10813676
well now that u have life all figured out maybe you can finally get a job

>> No.10813693

>>10813542
Some are more stoic than others. Take Kanus's death in Of Peace of Mind for example.

>> No.10813707

>>10813614

There was Stoic logic, Stoic grammar, Stoic allegorical reading, Stoic physics, etc.

It wasn't just the destruction of emotion.
Today people tend to boil it down to Stoic ethics, but it still isn't just about the passions.

>> No.10813708

>>10813542
Not a true stoic
>inb4 "no true Scotsman fallacy"
If he didn't behave according to Stoicism, he's not a stoic

>> No.10813710

>>10813614
Do you even understand how ironic is it that you're quite literally fuming over the idea of "calmness being such a basic thought"? You know you don't have to agree with it, nobody is forcing it upon you. But it is helpful to always try to be relaxed.

>> No.10813777

>>10813708
if he didn't behave like a Scot he's not a true Scotsman: FALLACY.

>> No.10813808

>>10813542
>Be a weak beta male cuck
>Convince yourself to find virtue in strength and suffering
>Engage in something that would likely kill you and survive because of muh stoic willpowerz
>Chad obviously doesn't need stoicism because he is Chad
>You on the other hand would have died without it
How is stoicism not useful again?

>> No.10813812

>>10813808
ident furlough urological in Frances

>> No.10813851

>>10813808
So you do admit that is a philosophy for weak beta cucks.

>> No.10813876

>>10813851
yes but all philosophy is for weak beta cucks. men who aren't weak beta cucks don't feel the need to justify their existence constantly. in fact the only people who would bother to make even the slightest attempt to explain anything rather than just fucking it or hitting it with a blunt object are weak beta cucks.

>> No.10813887

>>10813876
I see.

>> No.10813910

>>10813887
you're also a weak beta cuck if you know how to do your own laundry, own more than one pair of shoes or have ever eaten a gluten free meal.

>> No.10813912

>>10813910
Damn looks like I'm a weak beta cuck

>> No.10813926 [DELETED] 

>>10813912
well obviously you're a weak beta cuck, only a weak beta cuck would learn how to read.

>> No.10813933

>>10813777
no, false equivalence. more like, if he wasn't born and bred in Scotland, he's not a true Scotsman. being Scottish isn't dictated by behavior, but being Stoic is. BRAINLET

>> No.10813936

>>10813876
wft I love being a beta cuck now!

>> No.10813983

>>10813808
>cuck
>muh
>chad

>> No.10813987

>>10813933
you understand Scots about as well as you understand Stoics tbqh

>> No.10813994

>>10813614
that's why stoicism should be taught at high-schools.

>> No.10814009

>>10813777
Scot does not have any prerequisites. Stoic does.

>> No.10814011

>>10813987
why thank you, but really, I don't think I'm that much of an expert. It's just in contrast to your brainlet self that my wisdom shines.

>> No.10814014

>>10813520
Bad shit is going to happen and if you don’t have the right distance in life, it will destroy you. This is just practical advice, don’t take it too normatively.

>> No.10814020

>>10814011
>what is civic nationalism

>> No.10814028

>>10813614
O the irony...

>> No.10814046

>>10813536
pretending to mirror nature doesn’t negate nature it does however negate human life

reminder that stoic ontology and epistemology is basically just copying earlier greeks and they added absolutely nothing to our understanding of philosophy. other people had prescribed stoic ethics so there is no argument for the novelty of their ethics. there is literally not a single thing about it that is novel. people who pick up stoicism are the lowest of the low spiritually, the plainest of the plain, the most undesirable of all beta thinkers. No room for the transcendental, no room for the immanent, no room for real world spite as a gnostic could bear, no room for life affirming vitalism, no sense of justice, no desire for agency, no real acceptance of fate or destiny, no dialogue with nature, no love of mankind, no hatred of him either. a dead religion for dead souls, is it any wonder the bugs have taken to it in great numbers? is it any wonder that Jordan Peterson followers and /pol/ and reddit 3 of the most evil manifestations of the bug have all fallent into it?

>> No.10814259

>>10814046
>No room for the transcendental, no room for the immanent, no room for real world spite as a gnostic could bear, no room for life affirming vitalism, no sense of justice, no desire for agency, no real acceptance of fate or destiny, no dialogue with nature, no love of mankind, no hatred of him either. a dead religion for dead souls

Well, it doesn't sound so bad.

>> No.10814362

>>10813520

>Hey your child and wife are dead but no big deal it's just nature - Epictetus

Well he's not wrong.

>> No.10814444

>>10813614
>t. conservative detected

stick to your traditional ways of thinking inside the box.

Leave the intellectual discussion to the open-minded.

>> No.10814450

>>10813630
i have a duhgree in phulosophy but not luhterature

>> No.10814471

>>10813876
never thought of it that way but it is interesting. I'd wager the beta cuck often actually becomes alpha over time through his phil studies tho.

He becomes stronger through it, stronger than a chad who's neurons are operating at a minimal firing rate.

>> No.10814473

>>10814444
careful you don't leave yours open for too long, flies might get in.

>> No.10814476

>>10813994
gud point

>> No.10814489

>>10814473
tell that to ur mom bro

>> No.10814498

>>10814046
interesting point ya got there, tho stocism can act as a launchpad into the aforementioned philosophies.

>> No.10814516

Stoicism can make you neurotic and passive, long term side effects may include bitterness and paradoxically anger. Aurelius is redeemable because he barely cared about stoic orthodoxy. That's the strenght of stoicism to begin with, it's syncreticism.

>> No.10814525

>>10814046
>reminder that stoic ontology and epistemology is basically just copying earlier greeks
Can you name those Greeks?

>> No.10814552

>>10814444
Newfag

>> No.10814652

>>10813876
this but unironically

>> No.10814680

>>10813876
>>10814652
These, I'm a beta cuck and that's why I'm interested in philosophy and literature. (Especially the western canon)

>> No.10814689

>>10813876
This but ironically

>> No.10814732

>>10814552
not really

>> No.10814760

>>10813520
Reason has no effect on our feelings.
Will works on feelings.
Faith gives words to our feelings.
Will is guided by faith.
That's why religion or politics based on sentimental ideology works best with the masses.
That's also why art is needed after any scientific or philosophical breakthrough.

>> No.10814789

>just don't suffer ;)
Wow, thanks Epictetus. Didn't consider it.

>> No.10815189

Anyone that interprets Stoicism as some kind of defeatist resignation to fate is either being purposefully misrepresentative or is missing the point. Stoicism is about discernment and non-attachment. Figure out what you have control over (i.e. not much) and try your best to focus on what is essential. It doesn't mean live in a barrel or be some inhuman emotionless robot; it means cherish what you have realistically, strive for what is virtuous while you live, and recognize that someday you have to lose it all.

A Stoic isn't the man who accepts defeat without trying, it's the man who in defeat can say "I shall try again".

>> No.10815204

>>10814471
this is the end of knowledge, this website chronicles the end of sophia. the maggot men feeding on the carcass of their forefathers