/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10773999]

did this do anything to improve your life?

[Anonymous No.10774000]

>>10773999
self help is uniformly bullshit.

[Anonymous No.10774001]

>>10773999
No but I'm not autistic. If I were horrible at talking to people, making friends, and generally a moron I'm sure I'd have been helped by it.

[Anonymous No.10774005]

>>10773999
>>10774000
which ones are the trips of truth?

[Anonymous No.10774011]

no. read the recognitions.

[Anonymous No.10774139]

>>10774011
>the recognition
you literally cant name anything more pretentious

[Anonymous No.10774153]

Well, The Prince didn't. The entire book was fucking useless.

[Anonymous No.10774176]

>>10774139
>you literally cant name anything more pretentious

The Corrections by franzen

[Anonymous No.10774181]

>>10774153
You have to be rich or in power, first.

[Anonymous No.10774188]

It's a book mostly about common sense. There are some decent reminders if you're not a socially-conscious person.

And then out of nowhere, near the very end, Carnegie starts talking about using moral leverage to get what you want.

[Anonymous No.10774241]

>>10774153
i dont understand this post

[Anonymous No.10774261]

>>10774181
Or you learn the real lesson and dupe the rich and powerful for your own means.

[Anonymous No.10774281]

>>10773999
No, it actually makes real socialization even more difficult since you'll see all social interaction through the lens of professionalism. This book should be renamed "How to Win Acquaintances and Sway People In The Work Place." The advice is decent if you want to have water cooler conversations with people about the weather or what they had for lunch but it is useless if you want to learn how to connect with people on an emotional, non-superficial level.

T. Tried the book in highschool

[Anonymous No.10774302]

>>10774281
Read the book a last month. This post is spot on. It's useful to sales people and middle managers. It's very tedious but it does contain some useful advice

[Anonymous No.10774477]

>>10774281
anything you’ve read that has helped you make a real connection to people?

[Anonymous No.10774485]

>>10774281
>>10774477
>learn how to connect with people on an emotional, non-superficial level.
You're him to do the impossible. No one can teach you this.

[Anonymous No.10774500]

>>10774477
nope, I wish. I'm almost /r9k/ tier in terms of communicating with people on an emotional level.
>>10774485
I agree with you, that can only really be learned through life experiences. It's just that the title of the book is somewhat misleading and a lot of people shill it as a solution to those with social issues when it's really not.

[Anonymous No.10774508]

If you need to read Machiavellian books and haven't figured most of it out yourself you're a lost cause desu

[Anonymous No.10774536]

>>10774508
been Machiavellianing doctors and psychologists for free drugs for years
figured most of it out by myself
still think this book has value
still think you need to get off of your high my little pony

[Anonymous No.10774555]

>>10774477
Stop looking for this magic book that will fix all your social ills without risk. Sorry for repeating something you've probably seen over and over, but you literally just have to go out and work on social skills and accept the chance of embarrassment/anxiety. Anything you learned from self-help books is going to be completely insignificant once you actually make the choice to break out of your comfort zone and learn to human.

[Anonymous No.10774564]

>>10774555
>just have to go out and work on social skills
How would an individual (definitely not me) do this?

[Anonymous No.10774569]

>>10774555
it’s not that i’m an autist man, i can talk to people just fine, i can pick up girl
it’s just that i can’t trust people anymore, like emotional investment usually has a negative return and i feel lonely as fuck.
it’s kind of like having one last seed to plant but you know this year’s draught will be worse than last’s

[Anonymous No.10775734]

>>10774241
(Assuming you aren't trolling)
The Prince by Machiavelli is a book to a hypothetical Prince on how to rule a nation to remain in power and increase his power. How to deal with various groups such as plebs, rich people, foreign enemies, etc.

[Anonymous No.10775765]

>>10774555
It's not that simple, there are skills you can practice easily enough by talking to people, like general verbal fluency, or what topics are ok to talk about and which ones are sperg tier, but some things seem less fluid, at least for me.

Like, I understand intellectually that if I want to get a girl to like me I need to at least somewhat control the emotional tone of the conversation ("give her feels") instead of mirroring the emotions of whoever I'm talking to like my autistic self wants to do. How would I go about practicing this?

[Anonymous No.10775768]

>>10773999

Yes I highly recommend reading this book and then doing the exact opposite of what it tells you and using your new knowledge to help spot all of the people you should stay away from.
Extremely useful book.

[Anonymous No.10775769]

>>10774188
>Carnegie starts talking about using moral leverage to get what you want.
give example. shit like using god to appeal a godfag shit like that?

[Anonymous No.10775775]

>>10774005

the only truth is what works for other people isn't going to work for you

[Anonymous No.10775846]

>>10775768
This is true. The tips in this book, if you follow them directly, will turn you into an emotionless robot who goes into every conversation as if it were a business transaction. Watch out for people who use your name with an uncomfortable frequency and try to get you talking about your hobbies and interests.

[Anonymous No.10776174]

>>10773999
Yeah it would help those who try to be too alpha bossy

[Anonymous No.10776206]

>>10775846
>tfw was home schooled from 5th grade to eighth
>had no idea how to socialize
>post online looking for help before I started high school
>people /rec/ this book
>I read it
>learn the book through and through
>go to a semi-ghetto high school and start talking to people like a naive 40 year old man from the 1930s
>make no friends in all 4 years
A-at least I didn't get bullied because people thought I was genuinely autistic.

[Anonymous No.10776268]

>>10774281
>learn how to connect with people on an emotional, non-superficial level
>>10774477
The best you can hope for is to talk about last week's episode of Game of Thrones, movies you've watched, sports, or "fucking Drumpf!" The only way to get out is to unironically kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.10776897]

It really did improve my life, everyone in this thread is just a retard beyond help

[Anonymous No.10777307]

>>10773999
No. It requires you to genuinely like other people, and you'd have to be retarded to do that.

[Anonymous No.10777323]

>>10773999
indirectly yes. From it i was better able to see when people try to manipulate others. But i read it along time ago and nothing really stuck it was that un-impressive

[Anonymous No.10777432]

Yes I liked it.
Advice such as don't criticize and to smile were significant to me.

[Anonymous No.10777678]

>>10776206
my man

[Anonymous No.10777697]

>>10776206
Utmostkek. But seriously that sounds rough brother

[Anonymous No.10778434]

if somebody is wrong, don't tell them in general

that's what I took away and it served me good

[Anonymous No.10778464]

>>10774281
>How to Win Acquaintances and Sway People In The Work Place
I feel you but lots of closer relationship started as more shallow relationships

>>10776206
I come from fit and let me guess you're ugly and manlet?

>>10775768
It depends on your environment, with adult people of average ability and "normie" interests the advice isn't so bad.

>>10776897
Same, if only to see that people really are so simple and not distrusting over-sceptics like myself that would question any simple gesture of friendliness

>>10777432
>Advice such as don't criticize and to smile were significant to me.
same

[Anonymous No.10778478]

>>10778464
The book doesn't say it won't work for ugly manlets

[Anonymous No.10778492]

>>10774477
The concept of anxiety

[Anonymous No.10778508]

>>10773999
any books like this for fucking bitches and hoes? How to Fuck Bitches and Influence Hoes?

[Anonymous No.10778509]

>>10773999
No. I know all the stuff already, but I am too socially anxious to apply it so it doesn't matter.

[Anonymous No.10778514]

>>10778508
'be extremely confident and aloof'
t. all of human history

[Anonymous No.10778522]

>>10778508
don't be ugly, be chad.

[Anonymous No.10778526]

>>10778514
but being aloof means u gotta have the :| face but this book says to :) so is pursuit of bitches and hoes (or aloof lack of pursuit pursuit) counterproductive to winning friends and influenceing people?

[Anonymous No.10778537]

>>10778522
ive seen a lot of really ugly guys with girls though, usually at the grocery store or something. i think it has to do with somewhere where i live but 8/10 times here if a girls with a guy the guy is usually a manlet (???) the women who live around me (shit state university city) are also practically worthless in every senes of the word and im not upset by their interest in ugly men but my reality seems to be contradicting this /r9k/ hypotheses

[Anonymous No.10778544]

>>10774181
No, you don't. Like the Art of War it has lessons and strategies that can be used to get ahead by even the lowest peasant.

[Anonymous No.10778578]

>>10773999
it has some good tips in it but most of it is borderline sociopathic tactics for emotionally dead salesmen. regardless because i have autism, i tried some of it out irl, and the biggest tips that I've tried that actually work in modern conversation are these:

give people a lot of opportunity to talk about themselves in conversation. people LOVE talking about themselves, and except for like your parents and your siblings and maybe a few friends, nobody else really cares what you have to say. it's not that they hate you or anything, they're just too busy with their own lives.

following the last tip, LISTEN to people. be open and make it VERY clear that you're interested in what they have to say. people will love you and turn to you a lot more if you listen to what they have to say, because it makes them feel important, and in a massive world where people have a lot of their own problems and worries around every single fucking corner, recognition and help goes a long way. don't be a doormat and let people take advantage of you, but at least be willing to listen to people's problems.

lastly, along the lines of making people feel important, be sure to remember people's names. this is really crucial. there are few things in this world that you can do that make a person immediately dislike you, but forgetting their name is one of them.

so basically the big secret of getting people to like you is to make them feel important. of course it's not guaranteed to get people to like you, but they improve the chances a lot more. and if you do make someone feel important and they take it for granted, fuck them and move on, ain't no thing. this big secret was a conversational and social game-changer for me, because when you let people talk about themselves a lot more you learn who they are a lot faster and you can sort out the few great people from the many mediocre. this tip that i got from the book definitely improved my speaking ability and my quality of life.

>>10774564
some great advice I heard from somewhere I can't remember that helped me a lot was to just practice small talk in insignificant scenarios, like if you're standing in the grocery store like or waiting for coffee, that sort of thing. basically practice talking with people you know you'll never see again. worst case scenario you embarrass yourself in front of a person that will never see you again and ultimately doesn't care about you. either way you practice talking to other human beings. and from my experience, unless you live in some horrible metropolis where everybody's busy all of the time, people appreciate being talked to.

[Anonymous No.10778633]

>>10778508
Either this >>10778522 or be funny/ confident.

[Anonymous No.10779991]

>>10773999
Yes, I got promoted several times and formed good working relationship with many people.

[Anonymous No.10780140]

>>10774555
Yes, goy, yes! Bootstraps and free will!

[Anonymous No.10780220]

>>10778578
>like if you're standing in the grocery store

“Huh, grapefruit isn’t what it used to be, right?”

[Anonymous No.10781719]

>>10776206
laffin so hard
feelin so sorry

[Anonymous No.10782132]

>>10773999
Had a semi-decent time working in a weird sales/consultant position. Some tricks from this book were useful, but it's just one of the tools you'll need in business communication. Won't help if you're completely terrible at it and won't make you super good (you need proper mentality for that), but will rise you to a slightly higher level of mediocrity.

[Anonymous No.10782231]

>>10773999

no its a shitty book, save yourself some time and look up the table of contents

>just suck up and gladhand with everyone!!

[Anonymous No.10782904]

>>10774281
>>10774500
>Self-help book is overbranded and superficial
>Normies shill it as a social bible
Nigger get your shit together, I don't know when you finished "in Highschool" but you are still a salty little faggot

>>10774477
Some people are just horrible awful twisted creatures, I have had a great many heartfelt powerful connections with people in my life. I have brought people to tears when moving on from work experiences and have been deeply effected by people's words and actions myself.

But I have also pursued people for deeper relationships and have seen how socially and humanly deprived some people can be (my redpill with modern women). If you sincerely struggle to connect with people you either:
1). Have severe mental illness or deformity such as autism or whatever. Idk nothing you can do get help from a doctor.
2). You are an awful person raised by awful people so poorly that you are oblivious of your own character flaws and toxic interpersonal philosophy and lifestyle. If you find being in a self imposed social quarantine lonely consider changing your shit or killing yourself.

t. Tony Fucking Robbins

[Anonymous No.10783075]

I unironically have autism. Any book for this feeling?

[Anonymous No.10783110]

>>10783075
Unironically, Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality. It's like I'm looking at a window in to my soul.

[Anonymous No.10783174]

Self-improvement is for 110-120iq turboplebs desu.

Just smart enough to realise there is a problem but not smart enough to realise there isn't a solution. Kind of like environmentalists, vegans or communists.

[Anonymous No.10783200]

>>10782904
autistics don't care about connecting with people. They do experience loneliness though.

[Anonymous No.10783221]

>>10783174
This. Improvement comes from the grace of God, our Creator, not from ourselves. If you really want to change, kneel down and pray.

[Anonymous No.10783241]

>>10783221
>tfw the notion of original sin feels intuitively correct

[Anonymous No.10783280]

>>10774477
>>10774281
>>10773999

The point that gets missed every time this shit thread is posted is that thinking it won't get you over superficial interactions. This notion is incredibly narcissistic and self-serving. Not everyone has to jack off your emotions every time you have a convo.

That is the whole autism paradox. Going into every conversation thinking there will be something revelatory or that people have to care about you is self-serving. You have to give a lot and there is a lot of trial and error.

Instead of making the thread, you should've read an excerpt and try something. Judge for yourself.

[Anonymous No.10783285]

>>10783241
did you just get done with that norm macdonald clip too???

[Anonymous No.10783301]

Am I an asshole if I'm disgusted by the shallow, drunken mess that is making friends in college? No one is interesting. They're all lame as shit.

[Anonymous No.10783458]

>>10783301
Look at me im too interesting for all the normies. My interest are too cultured for there debauchery...

just keep a diary then where you can look at them from your ivory tower. stay mad forever

[Anonymous No.10783471]

>>10773999
It’s a good book if you’re into sales or in the business world. I read it all a lot of boring stories imo although the end up the chapters are a cheat sheet you can learn from.

[Anonymous No.10783491]

>>10783458
I swear to god, if I have to put up with another faggot in a beanie and doc martens talk about Car Seat Headrest again...

[Anonymous No.10783521]

>>10783491
What, you think you're superior to beanie wearing faggots in doc martens who talk about CSH?

[Anonymous No.10783548]

>>10783301
Yes. People don't exist to entertain you or fulfill your every need. They're people. Not saying to conform to them or anything, but don't think you'll make any friends with the mindset you currently have.

[Anonymous No.10783549]

>>10774281
this sort of explains my experience with PUA

[Anonymous No.10783649]

>>10783285
No, but please share.

[Anonymous No.10783924]

>>10783174
>self-improvement is masturbation

[Anonymous No.10783961]

>>10783924
>fight club

[Anonymous No.10783993]

>>10783961
that's the point. The guy who said sex-improvement is for brainless is a fedora

[Anonymous No.10783994]

>>10783548
>People don't exist to entertain you or fulfill your every need

Yes they do. Why the fuck else would I want to be a writer otherwise?

[Anonymous No.10784372]

>>10783993
>i associated what you said with one of the hollywood films i watch disapprovingly, therefore it's false!

[Anonymous No.10784391]

>>10784372
>i'm snarky and defensive!
fedora tier shit, grow the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.10784450]

>>10784391
I am grown up, anon, that's why I don't buy into the self-help racket.

[Anonymous No.10784566]

>>10784372
>I failed to understand that Fight Club was satirizing the same fedora fanbase that praises it
>i don't know how to make parallels or make connections

[Anonymous No.10784675]

>>10782904
T.

[Anonymous No.10784835]

>>10776206
Ow dude haha
> naive 40 year old man from the 1930s

[Anonymous No.10785348]

>>10776206
>>go to a semi-ghetto high school and start talking to people like a naive 40 year old man from the 1930s
oh anon

[Anonymous No.10785774]

>>10773999
yes, I smile 24/7 and I just let people talk, doing much better in social situations.

[Anonymous No.10785815]

Being social and cultivating relationships on all fronts is a skill just like anything else. It takes mistakes, practice, and effort to refine it, just like anything else.

Sad that some people here and on /r9k/ as a whole can't see that, or rather would not face it.

Obviously if you're an asspie it's going to be harder, but when you get there, you feel so much better about yourself. A book can help to a certain extent, the rest is your drive and discipline to put it to work.

[Anonymous No.10786596]

>>10783280
my problem isn't that I can't take inane conversations, it's that all my conversations are inane.

[Anonymous No.10786606]

>>10786596
This. I feel like everyone in this thread is straw manning people like you. Instead of actually addressing the problem they're just saying superficial shit like "just talk to people" or "just go outside" when that's not really how it works for everyone. Some people can have thousands of conversations with people but never once connect with another person.

[Anonymous No.10786647]

Yes, it’s great, I’m much better now, it’s useful. I used to find it hard to talk to people due to my anxiety. I’d always fail and go mute or say something stupid and ridicule myself. Loneliness hit when I was 17 or so, so I went out looking for friends and girls but I failed again and again. My last resort was trying to make friends online. I even managed to get a date only to show up and completely destroy myself in front of the girl. So I’m walking home and I see this book in the store. I spent the next few days going through it at my desk. Now, my desk is old as fuck and it kinda has a “limp,” as in, if you lean onto it with your left arm, the whole thing falls over. Due to some sorcery a leg is shorter than the others. I was reading when a brilliant idea came to my mind. I slipped the book under the shorter leg. It’s great, it’s perfect. Now I have a wonderful desk. Saved me a lot of money.

[Anonymous No.10787034]

>>10786606
That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t keep trying or that it’s bad advice.
I don’t consider myself socially inept at all, I have friends, I’ve had relationships, and if everything goes well, I’ll jump into another soon. Yet I could count on one hand how many people I could emotionally connect to in my life. It’s about being “compatible” with each other, it’s a number’s game. Meet enough people and sooner or later you’ll find someone you can connect to.
Some people have it easy, some have it harder. It’s still possible. I’m an anxious, depressed, moody fuck with attachment and trust issues, I drink myself to sleep 3 times a week, I mentally collapse and go borderline sociopath for a few weeks a year, I ditched psychiatry when I noticed I’m starting to get addicted to meds. I’m a mess. If I can do it, so can you, assburger or not.

[Anonymous No.10787281]

>>10787034
Why would I ever take advice from a fuck up like you? lmao

[Anonymous No.10787317]

That’s the thing, it doesn’t feel like to be people are be hollow and just communicating, it feels like others genuinely are involved with others. I can’t make human connections with anyone beyond transactional

[Anonymous No.10787368]

>>10787281
Because the subject is social life, which I have, unlike you

[Anonymous No.10787605]

>>10787317
Yeah, that’s bullshit. True connections are rare. Most of what you see is convenient bullshitting. I’ve had (and have) friends who think we are closer than we really are. Even others comment on how “connected” we are.
Really, I just need someone to talk to and they pretend to listen. In turn, I pretend to listen when they talk. It’s the same as talking about the weather or some shit, except the subjects can be more intimate, since we trust each other.

We are all alone.

[Anonymous No.10787637]

>>10787605
>We are all alone.
You can't know what to other people might have.

[Anonymous No.10787669]

>>10787605
You lost me after the first paragraph

[Anonymous No.10788028]

>>10787637
Then let’s say all the people I know are alone.

[Anonymous No.10788091]

>>10788028
Maybe they just don't want to talk with you about intimate stuff and pretend that they are retarded in a way similar to that in which they perceive you?

[Anonymous No.10788512]

>>10774153
It's hilarious when brainlets read The Prince expecting a self help book on "how to be a cunning alpha male"

[Anonymous No.10788529]

>>10773999
stopped reading half way through, all self help is trash for autists.

[Anonymous No.10788840]

>>10788091
They talk about their issues once they open up. That’s not the problem.

Have you ever vented to a friend who just listened and took every chance to self-insert his own problems? That’s what I’m talking about.

[Anonymous No.10788870]

>>10788840
Yeah they try to relate and share something of themselves that they deem fitting. Or they say nothing, or they just empathize. It's stuff people do.

[Anonymous No.10788942]

>>10774536
you don't have to be a genius to ask your doctor for meds.
That's what they're there for.

[Anonymous No.10788955]

>>10783174
You're right; we should go play with beasts and waste our time smoking cigarettes and wallowing in our own misfortune but deluding ourselves into thinking we're happy.

[Anonymous No.10788965]

>>10784450
>tfw to smart

[Anonymous No.10789102]

>>10775775
Dubs of repeating trips descends from the higher planes to arbitrate and deliver the divine truth.

[Anonymous No.10789551]

>>10788955
>but deluding ourselves into thinking we're happy.
Where did you get that part?

[Anonymous No.10791406]

>>10773999
Ok jokes aside, I read this book almost a year ago in december of 2016, here are my thoughts.

I must really say that at first I didn't thought that this book would help me, then I started to put in practice the teaching of carnegie, I really tried to stay calm with the many arguments I used to had both in my family and in the office, suddenly it started to work, for real, I'm no joking.

Even if you feel that you can't influence people with the method of this book, believe me, it helps you, It totally gives you another mindset and helps you improve how you deal with situations like having to interact with really toxic and degenerated normies.

I've improved my relationship with my parents and siblings, since january when I finished the book I've been studying the points where I feel weak and I always put them in practice first with my relatives and then with my co-workers, It was not a miracle but definitely it has helped me a lot.

I still have no friends but this book helped me rebuild a proper relationship with my arrogant father and my distant siblings, I don't think it can get you laid, probably works for that too if you play your cards properly, but definitely helps.

[Anonymous No.10791494]

Most important point from this book is in conversations, don't talk about yourself---ask questions about the other person. People like to talk about themselves, and they will like you for making them talk about themselves. They don't really care about you (unless they are a genuinely selfless person, which is rare).

[Anonymous No.10791992]

Listen, if you're alone for a long time and then hang out with your friends while on a mind altering substance then you will see your friends for what they really are, animals. Think of how pathetically naive a chimp is, the zookeeper knows every one of his signals so that if he were to try and engage her she would predict his every move and manipulate him into her palm. You can experience this power too but with the thoughts of your friends instead of the simple behavior of a primitive beast. Darwin laid to rest the illusion of a natural barrier between those disgusting apes and your immaculate mind. A bird's eye view of your behavior reveals the extent of your primitive nature unmasked from the illusion of hallucinated 21st century grandeur.