[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 24 KB, 474x349, thomassowell-e1482936214460-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10768980 No.10768980[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

To what extent should people be encouraged to suffer as a means to strengthen character?

Is the experience of independent triumph more valuable than the comfort of being accommodated in ones strife?

>> No.10768986

>>10768980
idk about that but I noticed a long time ago that simply telling yourself 'pain is good because it makes you tougher' actually lessens the subjective experience of pain

>> No.10768988

>>10768980
Isn't this a literature board?

>> No.10768993

>>10768986
>actually lessens the subjective experience of pain
swearing does too so long as you don't curse regularly. if you do swear a lot, it does nothing, and you're better off reading the shipping report.

>> No.10769000

>>10768980
People will suffer just fine left on their own.
Whats important is how we respond to suffering not the specific suffering

>> No.10769010

>To what extent should people be encouraged to suffer as a means to strengthen character?

They shouldn't. Wanting to "strengthen character" is superficial and has the opposite effect.

>> No.10769017

That's retarded. The reason to build character is so you don't suffer as much.

>> No.10769019

>>10769010

How is it superficial to grow callous to hardships? It just makes it easier to deal with adversity in life later on. To say that it's superficial sounds like an excuse to be weak.

>> No.10769021

>>10769017
Wrong, its so you can get shit done even if you need to suffer for it

>> No.10769027

>>10769017

How do you build strong/courageous/honorable character without suffering?

>> No.10769040

Ask yourself this instead - what are the most common forms of suffering? Which of those are necessary? Which do we have to endure?

>> No.10769053

>>10769021
Yeah perhaps I should have said "so you can better endure suffering." But either way, suffering purely for the sake of muh character is backwards.

>> No.10769056

>>10769040
Thats thinking about things ass backwards, what you should be asking is what should a man seek to do and how much suffering are you prepared to endure to get it done

>> No.10769077

>>10769056
No, that's approaching them on their true terms, not on the general idea of "suffering" and "endurance". If you're dreading your inevitable death and suffering because of it, you'll have to endure it. But other things - economic hardship, the malicious influence of other people, why hypnotize yourself into just "enduring" these things? They aren't necessary.

>> No.10769107

>>10769077

We endure them in order to grow callous and wisdom. This endurance isn't to say that nothing is being done about it but that one is better off fighting the hardship alone than stunting their potential by being accommodated. If everyone is allowed to just dodge suffering their whole life then they will have a very limited worldview.

>> No.10769482

>>10768980
you should watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tSTk1083VY

and if not here's a tl;dr. do things you hate.

>> No.10769987
File: 1.46 MB, 960x638, gilbert.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10769987

>>10768980
Based on my personal experience I would say that suffering is essential to strength of character. To use an extremely obvious and basic analogy, you would never hope to become physically strong if you never tried to lift more weight, or tried to run farther. I suppose that strife and triumph naturally exist together. If we have strife but no triumph then this is hell. Triumph without the strife must certainly feel hollow, if it could exist at all. With the memory of suffering how are we to know that a triumph has arrived?

As to your second question, with only the most abstract conditions, I am having trouble thinking of a case where it would be more valuable to be comforted rather than to be triumphant. This hinges on the use of the word "valuable." An independent triumph becomes a tool for all possible futures, something to recall and reference; to say nothing of the immediate benefits to character. Now maybe some are more receptive than others, but I should think this is true for all people. Now if instead of valuable we were speaking in terms of something like instant reward vs a later payoff.

>>10769000
Yes, it is important to have the ability or awareness to catalog the suffering. To benefit requires some amount of meta-cognition about the current state. Otherwise you will just continue to suffer (maybe the common choice).

>>10768988
We are engaging with texts.

>>10769010
Are you implying that there is nothing to the idea of character? Or that character is fixed? When you encounter an obstacle do you not recognize the oppurtunity to dig in and work, or recall previous times you have done so?

>>10769017
To quote the cyclist Greg Lemond:
>It never gets easier, you just go faster.

>> No.10770145

>>10769056
>>10769107
'no'
>>10769040
Stoics already sorted out that shit. You suffer what isnt under your control aka. almost everything. We suffer when things dont go our way, qualifyng them is useless because some petty thing can become a huge suffering issue depending on the person. We can only control our will. Everything else is subjected to the inclemencies of weather, destiny, bad luck, etc. The sooner you accept that shit can turn around 180 anytime for no reason at all, so you have to live a humble life, being grateful of the good and able to detach yourself when the bad affects something you love. Pain is inevitable, but suffering can be shortened dramatically if you adjust your will.

>> No.10770172

It only improves your character if you had any in the first place, let me explain. Most of you are middle class western kids 18 - 30. Your life may have not been perfect, but you never went through anything for real. You never had to test yourself. When you get tested, you'll find out if you have "it" or not. Just because you suffer doesn't mean you have "it", you might just not make it in life. The poor kids that grew up in the ghetto or trailer park have been getting tested since a young age, the few that are strong survive and move forward in life, the losers stay in the cycle.

>> No.10770190

>>10769017
>I'm a teenager with no life experience

>> No.10770202

MUH
SUFFERING
t. first worlder who never suffered seriously