/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10764681]

What does /lit/ think of Paglia's Sexual Personae?

[Anonymous No.10764689]

>>10764681
Secular alchemy is myopic trash.
She seems cool as a person though.

[Anonymous No.10764697]

>>10764681

I like this quote from that book:

>Shakespearean language is a bizarre super-tongue, alien and plastic, twisting, turning, and forever escaping. It is untranslatable, since it knocks Anglo-Saxon root words against Norman and Greco-Roman importations sweetly or harshly, kicking us up and down rhetorical levels with witty abruptness. No one in real life ever spoke like Shakespeare's characters. His language does not "make sense," especially in the greatest plays. Anywhere from a third to a half of every Shakespearean play, I conservatively estimate, will always remain under an interpretive cloud. Unfortunately, this fact is obscured by the encrustations of footnotes in modern texts, which imply to the poor cowed student that if only he knew what the savants do, all would be as clear as day. Every time I open Hamlet, I am stunned by its hostile virtuosity, its elusiveness and impenetrability. Shakespeare uses language to darken. He suspends the traditional compass points of rhetoric, still quite firm in Marlowe, normally regarded as Shakespeare's main influence. Shakespeare's words have "aura." This he got from Spenser, not Marlowe.

Camille Paglia, Sexual Personae: Art and Decadence from Nefertiti to Emily Dickinson, p. 195.

[Anonymous No.10764758]

>>10764697
so does she like shakespeare or not?

[Anonymous No.10764815]

>>10764681
Paglia is a joke. No one in academia takes her seriously. I guess liking her is ok if you only like literature ass a hobby, but if you pretend to have a career in academia you will be laughed if you like her. Simple as that.

[Anonymous No.10764819]

>>10764815
anti-catholics hate her obviously

[Anonymous No.10764835]

>>10764815
>but if you pretend to have a career in academia you will be laughed if you like her. Simple as that.
Academia is in an even larger state of disrepute. You're a bougie dunce if you consider modern academe to be any kind of honest bellwether.

[Anonymous No.10764847]

>>10764681

The only good thing she's written

[Anonymous No.10764863]

>>10764815
That's because she's a prominent voice of a deeply unpopular ideology.

[Anonymous No.10764870]

>>10764815
>academia
Academia is basically a priesthood at this point, i don't see how anyone can begin to take it seriousy

[Anonymous No.10764882]

>>10764870
>i don't see how anyone can begin to take it seriousy
They're typically affluent rubes who lack discernment and lean on appeals to authority to bridge the gap.

[Anonymous No.10764915]

>>10764815
I have a prof. friend who also gets sneered at routinely by his colleagues because he's a fan of boxing. Academics and intellectuals are snide elitists who just buy into whatever they're told whilst parading around pretending they have a superior intellect because they spent 10 years learning how to play word games. If you do anything that doesn't fit into their very narrow box of what an "intellectual" does (A box that almost zero people of actual intellectual importance throughout history would have fit in btw) then you are immediately cast out. It's dumb and you shouldn't give two squirts of piss what an academic thinks

[Anonymous No.10764929]

>>10764689
fpbp, this is exactly it.

>>10764681
not sexual enough.

[Anonymous No.10765030]

>>10764815
Academia isn't taken as seriously as they used to, with good reasons if you look at who gets to teach at prestigious universities
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5SQnQjryzI&t=1s

[Anonymous No.10765053]

>>10765030
What's she's saying makes sense. Once the fetus has a nervous system though it is basically like killing a baby. The take away here is that we should be allowed to kill babies. I mean we kill animals that are more aware than babies are to eat them so the whole argument is dumb to begin with.

[Anonymous No.10765059]

>>10765053
i think it should be ok to kill retarded kids, the standard of living in america has dropped to much to be wasting resources on non-viable lives

[Anonymous No.10765061]

>>10765053
You think she's making sense when she says that it's permissible because the baby you just killed didn't get a future?
Of course it has no future if you kill it

[Anonymous No.10765064]

>>10765061
I didn't get very far in the video, her voice annoyed me too much

[Anonymous No.10765068]

>>10765064
i didnt even click the video the preview shot was two indie rocker retards who looked soyed to the gills

[Anonymous No.10765071]

>>10765064
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6zncoOFxeo
This part was maybe better for me to post
She teaches at Princeton

[Anonymous No.10765078]

>>10765068
I don't know who the fag is but no indie rocker has harmed literature as much as James Franco

[Anonymous No.10765079]

>>10765071
i mean there is a certain sort of bizarre logic to what she's saying. But..it also means that if you kill a 20 year old you didn't deprive them of their later years because you deciding to kill them meant they would never have had those years anyway.

So no nevermind it's retarded

[Anonymous No.10765099]

I've always wanted to dip her body into a vat of acid

[Anonymous No.10765105]

>>10765099
woman detected

[Anonymous No.10765133]

>>10765105
In all honesty, I agree with what she says in Sexual Personae, however I just loath her for some indescribable reason

[Anonymous No.10765149]

>>10765099
>I've always wanted to dip her body into a vat of acid
>>10765133
>In all honesty, I agree with what she says in Sexual Personae, however I just loath her for some indescribable reason
That doesn't even make sense. Being a woman must be so exhausting.

[Anonymous No.10765190]

>>10765149
>Not selecting assorted individuals for the Daily Vat of Acid™
It's almost as if you're trying to tell me that you dont do this

[Anonymous No.10765271]

>>10764815
>academia
Lmao

[Anonymous No.10765287]

Paglia made me into the feminist I am today :)

[Anonymous No.10766705]

>>10764863
which ideology

[Anonymous No.10767324]

>>10764697
>She writes just like me
Am I a 70 year-old hyper-intelligent lesbian?

[Anonymous No.10767328]

>>10764815
>academia

[Anonymous No.10767331]

>>10764847
Her book of last year is pretty good.

[Anonymous No.10767344]

>>10764815
>No one in academia takes her seriously.
No one takes academia seriously sis
Paglia is like Socrates or the true philosopher

[Anonymous No.10767345]

>>10764815
>No one in academia takes her seriously
no one serious takes academia seriously

[Anonymous No.10767349]

>>10767344
>>10767345
hivemind

there's been similar times in history, like eunuchs in imperial china, when education and the arts were dominated by a cult

[Anonymous No.10767359]

>>10764915
I very much doubt this, I had classes with an aesthetics professor who would discuss fucking Netflix series with her students, a painting professor who watched Adventure Time and my drawing professor was a fucking 70 something year old who still read cape comics every now and then (though he say he swore off after gwen stacy died)

[Anonymous No.10767371]

>>10767359
> I had classes with an aesthetics professor who would discuss fucking Netflix series with her students, a painting professor who watched Adventure Time and my drawing professor was a fucking 70 something year old who still read cape comics

I get both you and the person you're responding to's points and it's obvious that Netflix, Adventure Time, and cape comics are "cool" trends

being a boxer or other wrongdo tastes and hobbies will get you sneered at

[Anonymous No.10767373]

>>10767359
There's nothing wrong with adventure time you retard.

[Anonymous No.10767378]

>>10767371
As I've said, the watercolor professor has been reading comics at least since Gwen Stacy died. That's been close to 50 years now, i think.

[Anonymous No.10767390]

>>10767373
academia is a sink hole of hipster instincts and sensibilities

>>10767378
comic books / capeshit are currently *correct* "geeky" hobbies while boxing is inherently anti because of its associations with the poor uneducated unemasculated working class

tfw when are we going to back to the greek ideals of people who are olympic athletes, philosophers, soldiers and statesmen in one

[Anonymous No.10767410]

>>10767324

Is she actually extremely intelligent?

[Anonymous No.10767425]

>>10767390
Actually, by all accounts, 50 years ago boxing was much more respected than capes. Also, I don't know where you live, but I'm a brazilian and professors here, on every course I've ever had any contact with, aren't even shy to go to school wearing their fucking team colors and taunting each other / other employees / students on the corridors over fucking football.
Academics are normal people, with retarded hobbies and noble aspirations and so on.
Also, I fail to see how your reply has anything to do with anything I've said. I very much doubt boxing was more frowned upon than comics in 70s brazil, during the peak of our military dictatorship.

[Anonymous No.10767432]

>>10767410
yeah she's the one of the few leftist feminist thinkers left who actually writes about insightful stuff of value

[Anonymous No.10767437]

>>10767425
brazil isn't as heavily invaded by the gynocentric emperors yet

[Anonymous No.10767442]

>>10767425
I think what I'm saying is the smallest of micro acts and thinking gets you quietly ostracized

[Anonymous No.10767443]

>>10764815
>No one in academia takes her seriously.
and 11yo kids on youtube don't take academia seriously, what's your point?

[Anonymous No.10767444]

>>10767390
Your body is a sinkhole of ressentiment and dunning kruger.

[Anonymous No.10767446]

>>10767437
Nowhere is. There are angry internet feminists here too. You're just so fucking blinded by whatever your the internet is throwing at your head, thinking the little niche of rabid NEETs with too much time and too little else going on you're part of is the universe.
>>10767442
Do you honestly think this is relegated to academia? This is how petty fucks act everywhere, and people have been getting pettier and pettier for a number of reasons.

[Anonymous No.10767451]

>>10765030
>this view may seem unattractive

[Anonymous No.10767458]

>>10765133
you just hate italians, it's ok

[Anonymous No.10767468]

camille paglia is my waifu

[Anonymous No.10767470]

>>10767437
brazil is ruled by ass though

[Anonymous No.10767471]

>>10767446
I agree with you

>>10767444
how can you not resent 21st century academic culture?

[Anonymous No.10767490]

>>10767470

Our president is an asshole, yes.

[Anonymous No.10767494]

>>10767470
>brazil ruled by miss bumba

brazil not free from globalist culture

[Anonymous No.10767505]

>>10767494
just look at the level of deterioration in quality. this deterioration also the pattern in academia

[Anonymous No.10767514]

>>10767494
>ywn be beated to death by the girl on the bottom right
also kind of sad that the tentacles of the globalists would ruin even that, no tradition is safe

[Anonymous No.10767523]

>>10767514
we're run by eunuchs like in imperial china

[Anonymous No.10767532]

>>10767514
Lmao what kind of fucking tradition, do you even know anything about Brazil? The country is heavily miscigenated, some of those girls on the top picture are probably half black and you don't even know. If anything, the push of "white beauty" and treating race like it's been done lately is globalism, because we're importing american standards which don't fit our country.

[Anonymous No.10767538]

>>10767532
i never criticized black girls, and if that's the only problem you see with the bottom pic you are beyond saving

[Anonymous No.10767542]

>>10767532
why do liberals always shoot arrows over the target

[Anonymous No.10767544]

>>10764815
>>Paglia is a joke. No one in academia takes her seriously.
yes she is the female MEMERSON

[Anonymous No.10767547]

>>10767544
bait / shill / low iq post

[Anonymous No.10767549]

>>10767538
What is even your point, that such a contest exists? That kind of shit has been happening since the 70s and shows no sign of stopping. What fucking tradition is being threatened here anyway, the miss bunda tradition? Those two pics aren't even from the same miss bunda

[Anonymous No.10767558]

>>10767549
top is before globalists

bottom is after globalists (values ugliness, anti-white, includes biological men in a competition for women)

[Anonymous No.10767565]

>>10767558
>anti-white
>>10767538
>i never criticized black girls,

[Anonymous No.10767568]

>>10767558
>Brazil
>White

[Anonymous No.10767585]

>>10767565
I'm a different anon

>>10767568
assuming this isn't bait the German-Italian-Portuguese Brazilians have always maintained their own cultures, like Boers in South Africa

[Anonymous No.10767595]

>>10767585
You're retarded. My grandfather was born in Italy, but he married my grandmother, who was descended from blacks and indians, and this is common as FUCK, most people I know have some degree of race-mixing in them. Only southern Brazil was KINDA "white", but even then this changed with the urban boom and you'll only find mostly white communities in the southern / southeastern countryside.

[Anonymous No.10767598]

>>10767595
>you'll only find mostly white communities in the southern / southeastern countryside
there's a reason why models are searched for there

they have a unique culture and should be protected; do you believe that boers should not be protected?

[Anonymous No.10767707]

>>10767598
There are models from everywhere, pic related was the best paid model in the world at some point and she's from Salvador, the city with the biggest concentration of blacks in Brasil, and she's clearly not "pure white".
Actually, now that I think of it, even amongst the southern ones, the only one with purely european traits is Giselle Bundchen.

[Anonymous No.10767710]

>>10767707
cintia dicker, jeisa chiminazzo
there is definitely an industry of sending scouts to rural south brazil. I get it you're being contrarian but this is well known

[Anonymous No.10767712]

>>10767598
Also, the south has very little "unique culture", most of it is either german shit that kept on (and this is hardly a trouble, considering I live in a much more miscigenated city and italian - hell, even english - costumes are still prevalent) or gaucho shit that's shared by most of the south-american southern extreme.

[Anonymous No.10767718]

>>10767707
>>10767712
and you haven't answered the question whether you think they like the boers shouldn't be protected.

new world culture is still culture.

[Anonymous No.10767727]

>>10767710
If anything, the big model pole is in Florianópolis, which has millions of girls from rural areas (hell, I have a friend in this situation), of course, but also from a bunch of other places. It still doesn't account for the immense miscigenation, which exists even in those rural spots, though in a much lesser degree, obviously. I don't know where you're from, but hot girls in Brazil come in all fucking sizes, shapes and forms, the only place I've been to where most women are kinda ugly is São Paulo, but in the rest of the country the average is high as fuck.
>>10767718
I couldn't give less of a fuck about the boers.

[Anonymous No.10767732]

>>10767727
Everyone knows about Florianopolis.

>I couldn't give less of a fuck about the boers.
Thanks for clearing that up.

[Anonymous No.10767745]

>>10767732
Florianopolis is a capital, no capital in Brazil is "ethnically pure" (lmao). I mean, I've seen a concert by a anarchist, black activist band from Rio Grande do Sul, a state in which german is still taught in a bunch of schools. That kind of totalizing argument simply doesn't work with brazilian race dynamics, they're very different from most places in America because our slavery was a bit different from anywhere else.
To claim colono communities are a significant part of the population is to claim quilombos and uncontacted tribes as a significant part of the population as well, but anyone can see they're (outliers at best)

[Anonymous No.10767769]

>>10767745
I claimed none of what you say I'm claiming. And you already said that you don't give a shit about groups like Boers and such

That's the end of this digression, let's get back to Camille Paglia

[Anonymous No.10767958]

>>10767769
>let's get back to Camille Paglia

Coming back to her with relief * Reading her Sexual Personae I could not find myself agreeing with most of her views, and I think that she – just like Harold Bloom – does many assertions but without providing any prove to substantiate them.

Yet one thing I noticed is just how creative she is when commenting passages of poetry. She is completely different from Blooms boring prose in this aspect. When she discusses poetry, she creates poetry herself. It happens all the time, as in the excerpt I quoted above – about Shakespeare (>>10764697
)- , and here, about Emily Dickinson:

>Dickinson relishes blood and is lavish with her red pallete. Sang from the Heart, Sire,/Dipped my Beak in it,/If the Tune drip too much/Have a tint too Red/Pardon the Cochineal—/Suffer the Vermillion—(1059). The poet is a self-maiming pelican, tearing clots of flesh from her breast to feed her song, whose notes and bars float throw the air in a red trail, a bloody skywriting. Elsewhere she taps the heart again, like a cask of Burbundy: The Mind lives on the Heart/Like any Parasite—/If that is full of Meat/The Mind is fat. (1355). The mind suckling on the nutlike heart is a barnacle or verminous borer, like canine heartworm. The hungry mind becomes Donne’s bedroom flea, with Dickinson taking the part of both male and female.

I also think that, concerning Shakespeare, she is quite perceptive in realizing that the main stylistic feature in his works is his love for metaphors, and in the claim that Shakespeare’s characters are not actually realistic, that they don’t speak like any human beings who ever walked upon Earth, but actually possess a “super-tongue”.

* I am Brazilian myself and the current political and social situation of our country is so painful to me that I rather forget for a second where I live and focus only on writing/reading (especially in this haven of sorts that we have to discuss literature democratically and without any restrictions)

[Anonymous No.10768834]

>>10764681

bump

[Anonymous No.10768891]

>>10767958
>>10764697
i read paglia precisely for her deft handling of the english language, her expressiveness, and her unusual and pleasantly unsettling takes on Very Important Passages in the canon.
she's one of the few critics i've encountered that seems an equal to her subject, though i find her political commentary trite, quibbling, and inconsequential.

[Anonymous No.10769103]

>>10768891
>i find her political commentary trite, quibbling, and inconsequential.
I found she speaks for a certain kind of excluded people. I especially find her feminist critique to be astute and necesary

[Anonymous No.10769153]

>>10767373
This. Adventure Time has as much artistic merits and it's as subversive as any contemporary novel you can name. Just because it's a cartoon doesn't mean it isn't a work of art.