What is Western Literature's obsession with separation and alienation

[Anonymous No.10756867]

Europeans see themselves as separated from---alienated---from nature and from other living beings, it makes sense if you look at the dominant themes of the "masterworks" of the Western Literary Canon.

Shakespeare's greatest works, his tragedies, dealt with isolation and alienation. Look at "Hamlet"---psychological alienation in the midst of a corrupt society. Look at "Macbeth"---the alienation of power ("heavy lies the head that wears the crown"). Look at King Lear". Even look at a romance like "The Tempest". It deals with Prospero's isolation and alienation from society.

Albert Camus, author of "The Stranger"---that whole book is about alienation from society and what Mersault at the end of the novel describes as the "cold indifference of the universe". The indifference and the coldness of the universe is also found frequently in other European literature.

If you read Faulkner, TS Eliot and even transcendentalist philosophers like Thoreau, Whitman and Emerson and existentialist philosophers like Sartre you see themes of extreme individualism. Individualism is alternately romanticized and lamented, but seen as a fact of existence in much of Western literature and philosophy.

"Existentialism" as an answer to repression of the individual and the theme of "alienation" within an indifferent society/universe mostly arose during and after the two World Wars---wars caused and waged by European states.

Interestingly, however, you see these themes going all the way back to the beginning of what we consider the Western canon (Shakespeare).

By contrast, when you see these themes in African American Literature, alienation is a feature when the author is studying the struggles of a Black individual stuck/trapped in white society (good example: Ralph Ellison's "The Invisible Man").

Western culture seems to cold and distant compared to say African literature/philosophy etc.

[Anonymous No.10756873]

>>10756867
>Alienation
is this the most misused word ever?

[Anonymous No.10756902]

OP yes you are right however these symptoms are more universal than you think.

[Anonymous No.10756909]

>>10756902
are they really

seems to be a European phenomenon

[Anonymous No.10756936]

>>10756909
The most famous japanese novel is about alienation too for example.

[Anonymous No.10756941]

>>10756909
You haven't read Jap lit, did you?

[Anonymous No.10756944]

>>10756867
Good books with themes of community and unity?

[Anonymous No.10756947]

>>10756867
It's because the western sense of self is wrong. Westerners have this Cartesian idea of their self which is forever cut off from the outside in some way. Other cultures don't have this.

[Anonymous No.10757268]

>sup guys solipsism here, we all super isolated from everything and everyone. its like my sci fi mangas! wait, do you even exit? lol jk
>baaaww i feel alone :(
t. western thought.

[Anonymous No.10757276]

>sup guys solipsism here, we all super isolated from everything and everyone. its like my sci fi mangas! wait, do you even exist? lol jk
>baaaww i feel alone :(
t. western thought.

[Anonymous No.10757280]

>sup guys solipsism here, we all super isolated from everything and everyone. its like my sci fi mangas! wait, do you even exit? lol jk
>baaaww i feel alone :(
t. western thought.

[Anonymous No.10757342]

>>10756867
I just wrote a new copy pasta, guys. Can you tell me what you think:

>Welcome to your first lecture on the Introduction to Logic. I hope you will stick with us for the entirety of the course, since logic can be rather daunting - at first. It's all about practice, and if you spend a few hours a week doing exercises, you will at least get a Credit. OK, now we will work through some of the textbook. Here is our first statement in logic. Ahem.
>Women are THOTs if and only if (iff) women also breathe.
>The statement may be broken down into a kind of logical "language" or syntax. Here we will use what is to be called "Sentential". To represent an English sentence in Sentential, we will represent them with letters like "T" or "B". This way you don't have to write out the whole sentence [nervous laughter] and we think that Sentential is a much *cleaner* language where you can find the argument easily by breaking it down. You may use whatever letters you like to represent sentence, with integers, as long as you do not use the same for different sentences! Here is our first example of breaking down the argument:
>T: Women are THOTs
>B: Women breathe
>^: And
>T ^ B, therefore T.
>T and B may only be true if both premises are true. Hence, "T if and only if B". Remember that "T iff B" also means "B iff T".
>Furthermore, it can now be said that the statement, "Women breathe and women are THOTs," is a tautology since by virtue of its logical form, it is true.
>Some of you have your hands raised. Yes? You there.
>"Is all moral philosophy false because there is only one truth," you ask? Well, that really isn't a question for this subject. But, no. No more questions now, thank you.
>Adjusts bow tie, anxiously.
>Ahem.
>Sips coffee.
>Back to the THOT tautology, class...

[Anonymous No.10757603]

>>10757342
I just wrote a new copy pasta, guys. Can you tell me what you think:

>Welcome to your first lecture on the Introduction to Logic. I hope you will stick with us for the entirety of the course, since logic can be rather daunting - at first. It's all about practice, and if you spend a few hours a week doing exercises, you will at least get a Credit. OK, now we will work through some of the textbook. Here is our first statement in logic. Ahem.
>Women are THOTs if and only if (iff) women also breathe.
>The statement may be broken down into a kind of logical "language" or syntax. Here we will use what is to be called "Sentential". To represent an English sentence in Sentential, we will represent them with letters like "T" or "B". This way you don't have to write out the whole sentence [nervous laughter] and we think that Sentential is a much *cleaner* language where you can find the argument easily by breaking it down. You may use whatever letters you like to represent sentence, with integers, as long as you do not use the same for different sentences! Here is our first example of breaking down the argument:
>T: Women are THOTs
>B: Women breathe
>^: And
>T ^ B, therefore T.
>T and B may only be true if both premises are true. Hence, "T if and only if B". Remember that "T iff B" also means "B iff T".
>Furthermore, it can now be said that the statement, "Women breathe and women are THOTs," is a tautology since by virtue of its logical form, it is true.
>Some of you have your hands raised. Yes? You there.
>"Is all moral philosophy false because there is only one truth," you ask? Well, that really isn't a question for this subject. But, no. No more questions now, thank you.
>Adjusts bow tie, anxiously.
>Ahem.
>Sips coffee.
>Back to the THOT tautology, class...

[Anonymous No.10757881]

>>10757276
>>10757280
>
>t. African thought

[Anonymous No.10757902]

>>10756936
> no longer human
> most famous Japanese novel

Read it, unironically thought it was overrated. The protagonist didn't really seem to have a reason to be isolated, nor did he really even explain his alienation through own thoughts. And up until he watches his wife get raped, you could say he is just a super sperg.

Maybe it's because I grew up in the West, so I fundamentally cannot understand the " trauma " associated with not fitting into society, but this book didn't really connect with me.

Pic related is my favorite modern Japanese novel ( so far ), it deals with alienation and loneliness from a male perspective. I found this book resonated with me heavily, never before this book have I been made speechless by literature.

[Anonymous No.10757958]

The underlying crux of this theme is superiority. You are isolated from the masses, because you believe yourself (or hope to be) above them.

>psychological alienation in the midst of a corrupt society
>the alienation of power

It's all right there.

[Anonymous No.10758030]

>>10757902
I just got into the parte Sensei introduces K. For me Sensei seems like a prick. Does it get better (than it already is)?

[Anonymous No.10758047]

>>10757902
I just got into the part Sensei introduces K. For me Sensei seems like a prick. Does it get better?

[Anonymous No.10758193]

>>10756867
>African literature/philosophy
heh

[Anonymous No.10758210]

>>10758193
Go back to where you came from.

[Anonymous No.10758238]

>>10756867
>By contrast, when you see these themes in African American Literature, alienation is a feature when the author is studying the struggles of a Black individual stuck/trapped in white society (good example: Ralph Ellison's "The Invisible Man").

this is a misreading of invisible man

[Anonymous No.10758258]

>>10757881
>>10758193
Augustine, Philo of Alexandria, Camus. The list goes on.
>North Africa isn't Africa
Yes, it is. It's literally called Africa.

[Anonymous No.10758269]

Colin Wilson built and destroyed his career by writing a book about this - "The Outsider." Pretty pretty pretty preeetty good.

[Anonymous No.10758275]

>>10756867

>>10757958

This is it OP. Alienation gives a feeling of power because you are the only frame of reference left. I unironically believe this is a consequence of 2000 years of twisting Plato and the many other idealists into our current fake materialism (fake insofar as we are still idealists at heart, only that we idealize and reduce into material every previous abstract value we might have had).

Western culture is cold and distant because it requires surrender to meet the Other. Viewing yourself as a cog or a cell underlying a larger complex phenomenon is somewhat frightening to our canon. I also wouldn't cite Ellison as African literature, for you can still see in him the typically American disparity of isolating yourself in order to not be inferior (which is not as opposed a view to isolating yourself in order to become superior).

From a short work trip I made to China some time ago, I'd say they get this much more than we do. They realize and accept inequality inside their society and many of them [do not seem to] crave superiority, nor by isolation or any other means. There's a lot of stuff I'd consider fucked up going on there, but they are ironically not as alienated from each other as we are. I'd say (as a BR huefag) that Brazil is also a showcase for how people can bond to each other, at the price of leaving behind this feeling of superiority. Brazilians are known (and it is true) to regard themselves as underdogs and resign themselves to mediocrity even in areas where they could feign relative superiority. Yet it has come to be that solitude is only a relevant theme in here to people who purposely isolate themselves, and (probably not by coincidence) these people are usually "up there", socially and economically speaking.

[Anonymous No.10758276]

>>10758258
>Classifing Camus as "African philosophy"

[Anonymous No.10758278]

>>10756867
Those are major themes in Russian and Japanese literature, too.

I should also point out the examples you're talking about are part of the western canon, and they certainly deal with alienation, but there are plenty of other segments of western literature that don't consider alienation in detail (though if you finesse a work enough, you can make pretty much any argument about it you want, within reason).

[Anonymous No.10758313]

>>10758258
Augustine was a classically educated Roman citizen who wrote in Latin and was entirely influenced by early Christian though and Greek philosophy - he is not an African thinker.

[Anonymous No.10758324]

>>10758258
>Augustine, Philo of Alexandria, Camus
>African literature/philosophy
try understanding how language works a bit before posting on a literature board

[Anonymous No.10758326]

>>10757958
getting very Faustian in here

[Anonymous No.10758343]

>>10757958
What if you feel yourself, not above, but actually below others, and that you are not worthy of engaging with them?

Does it come to the same thing- narcissism and self-absorption?

[Anonymous No.10758587]

>>10756867

Civilization demands conformity, which is easily perceived as isolation from the perspective of the individual. This obviously doesn't applies to the negro man who simply fucks and steals and dances as he pleases, yet also pays the price in having to interact and live with other monkeys who do the same.

[Anonymous No.10758591]

>>10756867
>Look at "Macbeth"---the alienation of power ("heavy lies the head that wears the crown")
That's a quote from Henry IV you idiot

[Anonymous No.10758602]

>>10757902
Does this book relate to Hikikomori at all?

[Anonymous No.10759175]

>>10757958
This

[Anonymous No.10760855]

>>10758275
good read

[Anonymous No.10760868]

>>10756867
>Interestingly, however, you see these themes going all the way back to the beginning of what we consider the Western canon (Shakespeare).

The western canon begins with the Greeks.

[Anonymous No.10760890]

>>10756867
Short answer is Western Culture in general puts importance on the self where African and eastern cultures put importance on the collective. If someone strikes it big in America, it's because of their ingenuity and unique talents, where in Japan its because they were luck enough to stumble upon the perfect team of talented individuals.

[Anonymous No.10761054]

>>10760890
>Short answer is Western Culture in general puts importance on the self where African and eastern cultures put importance on the collective
what a meme
how to spot a brainlet

[Anonymous No.10761260]

>>10758343
Yes, just a different caliber of it. Such an example was referenced in OP's post (Invisible Man), and it was used to contrast against Western literature (even if it is American). While Elliot saw isolation as an unfortunate circumstance, other authors saw isolation as an inevitable - and maybe even desirable - phenomenon.

[Anonymous No.10761267]

>>10761054

I think you are the brainlet if you can't even recognize that individuality is pretty much the most important cultural value in the western world

[Anonymous No.10761272]

>>10761267
yeah look at all those individualist societies like america lmao fucking brainlets

[Anonymous No.10761280]

>>10758275
baizuo made me kek but

>cares about the environment

is just flat out bullshit. caring about the planet doesnt make one obsessed with political correctness. and this being written into a chinese word almost feels like an intended joke

[Anonymous No.10761289]

>>10761280
>and this being written into a chinese word almost feels like an intended joke
you're thinking in memes and stereotypes. average chink has more soul than average yank

[Anonymous No.10761290]

>>10761272
America has always valued individualism though.

[Anonymous No.10761292]

>>10761290
H@#H@H@H@H@HH@H@

[Anonymous No.10761301]

>>10761289
i was referencing the fact that china pollutes more than any other country

[Anonymous No.10761304]

>>10761301
abloooooooooo bl000

[Anonymous No.10761315]

>>10761290
Agreed.

[Anonymous No.10761320]

>>10757902
Soseki was what got me into alienated-and-unable-to-deal-with-modern-life-core lit

[Anonymous No.10761322]

>>10761304
ok

[Anonymous No.10761325]

>>10761290

I mean it's kind of like the whole basis of its entire creation but ya know...

[Anonymous No.10761333]

>>10761325
It's a sham, look at what enlightenment liberalism has really led to

[Anonymous No.10761623]

>>10756867

pseuds like you should stop talking, stay away from books, and fucking kill yourselves

[Anonymous No.10761705]

>>10761623
Why's he a pseud?

[Anonymous No.10761722]

>>10761705
Well, I'm not that anon, but for one thing, he (the pseud) unironically thinks that the West, especially the modern West is about individualism.

[Anonymous No.10761741]

>>10761722
So what? It may mean he's misinformed, ignorant, or dumb, but he's trying to hold a discussion about it. No need to call him a pseud.

[Anonymous No.10761749]

>>10761741
>It may mean he's misinformed, ignorant, or dumb, but he's trying to hold a discussion about it.
that is worth nothing lmao

[Anonymous No.10761752]

This is because of urbanisation. Man was never meant to live like this. It's killing me slowly. I feel more akin to the silent bats in the night sky than the countless, nameless people around me

[Anonymous No.10761759]

>>10758602
In a way, yes. Sensei is married and is able to leave his home, but he becomes a bit of a recluse out of his own shame/guilt and because he feels like he has nothing to contribute to society.

>>10757902
Did you actually read that Spanish edition? The introduction is pretty damn good. I've read 90% of Soseki's works and that intro is the only one that divides his later oeuvre in 2 trilogies iirc. The editors and writers in every other foreword I've read, for some reason ignore that there are a multiple works, written in succession, all dealing with similar themes.

[Anonymous No.10761763]

>>10761759
is he a dude? name looks female

[Anonymous No.10761767]

>>10761749
It means he's trying to learn rather than just show off retard.

[Anonymous No.10761769]

>>10761767
who cares????????? that alone is worth nothing you trash cunt pleb feeder. i bet you think people deserve something for grinding for years too

[Anonymous No.10761775]

>>10761769
You're missing the point completely. Incredible.

[Anonymous No.10761779]

>>10761775
no, i understand it perfectly, and im telling you - fuck off trash cunt.

[Anonymous No.10761780]

>>10761775
why do you feed cretins like this. hes obviously baiting

[Anonymous No.10761783]

>>10761780
>cretins
Wow mate amazing. I am one of the 100 brightest minds currently alive, most likely 100 brightest to have ever lived. who the fuck are you? some clown who thinks that everyone smarter is '''''''''baiting''''''''???

[Anonymous No.10761803]

>>10761763
Soseki? Dude
Carlos Rubio? Dude

[Anonymous No.10762028]

>>10761803
Einstein? Dude
Maxwell? Dude
Newton? Dude

Surfing? Dude ...
Main character of The Big Lebowski? Dude

[Anonymous No.10763838]

>>10761320
other recs for this type of lit?

[Anonymous No.10763877]

>>10762028
Okay...

[Anonymous No.10764088]

>>10763838
Houellebecq if you haven't. Delicioustacos' book The Pussy is good as well.

[Anonymous No.10764260]

marxist propaganda