Is the quran a good book to read?

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Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:58:12 2018 No.10711506 [Reply] [Original]

Is the quran a good book to read?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:59:41 2018 No.10711509 it's a good book to burn

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:39:45 2018 No.10711618 >>10711509 Wohohoah YOU did NOT JUST say that fucking badass

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:45:57 2018 No.10711640 >>10711506 If you're a sand-nigger, sure.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:49:14 2018 No.10711648 >>10711506 it reads like disjointed tweets from "god", if god were the alter-ego of an arabian pedophile

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 08:03:42 2018 No.10711701 >>10711506 No

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 08:07:22 2018 No.10711716 Why do you guys hate Islam? No meme answers like muh gays or muh women rights.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 08:14:21 2018 No.10711751 >>10711509 OHH NO NO NO NO

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 08:15:41 2018 No.10711754 >>10711716 Islam is antithetical to modern liberal values

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 08:22:01 2018 No.10711775 >>10711754 and traditional christianity ofc isn''t

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 08:25:56 2018 No.10711791 >>10711775 no but modern Christianity is LGBTQI+ are finally recognized by churches all across the country and can be married and live happy, religious lives

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 08:28:27 2018 No.10711795 >>10711506 I tried reading it, found it boring. The bible, say what you will, has very interesting stories. The Qran, not so much, it's written more like a manual. Again, I haven't read it all. Didn't make me interested.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 08:28:47 2018 No.10711798 >>10711791 thats the point, you do realize there is also (a) modern islam?

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 08:31:23 2018 No.10711807

>>10711795
>These are the sons of Israel: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, 2 Dan, Joseph, Benjamin, Naphtali, Gad, and Asher. 3 The sons of Judah: Er, Onan, and Shelah; these three the Canaanite woman Bath-shua bore to him. Now Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord, and he put him to death. 4 His daughter-in-law Tamar also bore him Perez and Zerah. Judah had five sons in all.
>5 The sons of Perez: Hezron and Hamul. 6 The sons of Zerah: Zimri, Ethan, Heman, Calcol, and Dara,[a] five in all. 7 The sons of Carmi: Achar, the troubler of Israel, who transgressed in the matter of the devoted thing; 8 and Ethan’s son was Azariah.
>9 The sons of Hezron, who were born to him: Jerahmeel, Ram, and Chelubai. 10 Ram became the father of Amminadab, and Amminadab became the father of Nahshon, prince of the sons of Judah. 11 Nahshon became the father of Salma, Salma of Boaz, 12 Boaz of Obed, Obed of Jesse. 13 Jesse became the father of Eliab his firstborn, Abinadab the second, Shimea the third, 14 Nethanel the fourth, Raddai the fifth, 15 Ozem the sixth, David the seventh; 16 and their sisters were Zeruiah and Abigail. The sons of Zeruiah: Abishai, Joab, and Asahel, three. 17 Abigail bore Amasa, and the father of Amasa was Jether the Ishmaelite.
>18 Caleb son of Hezron had children by his wife Azubah, and by Jerioth; these were her sons: Jesher, Shobab, and Ardon. 19 When Azubah died, Caleb married Ephrath, who bore him Hur. 20 Hur became the father of Uri, and Uri became the father of Bezalel.
>21 Afterwards Hezron went in to the daughter of Machir father of Gilead, whom he married when he was sixty years old; and she bore him Segub; 22 and Segub became the father of Jair, who had twenty-three towns in the land of Gilead. 23 But Geshur and Aram took from them Havvoth-jair, Kenath and its villages, sixty towns. All these were descendants of Machir, father of Gilead. 24 After the death of Hezron, in Caleb-ephrathah, Abijah wife of Hezron bore him Ashhur, father of Tekoa.
Riveting stuff, my dude

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 08:35:55 2018 No.10711819 >>10711754 I said no meme answers. And I am certain you don't hold those modern liberal values yourself. And to imply that all liberal values are good, what a joke.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 08:37:20 2018 No.10711824

>>10711506
I suggest to everyone to read the Quran. Open it to pretty much any random point and go 10 pages back and 10 pages forward. Anyone who so much as utters 'religion of peace' without attributing it to Christ's teachings should be REQUIRED to sit down for even just 10 minutes and READ some of the Quran. By western standards, it's truly reprehensible, and its horrors should be maintained just as the horrors of Mein Kampf should be maintained, for both had wrought great suffering to great numbers of innocent people.

READ THE QURAN AND LEARN OF ITS HORRORS! Nobody has ever done well to underestimate one's enemy, or to remain in ignorance of that enemy, and in this case that enemy is unadulterated EVIL.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 09:23:06 2018 No.10711945 >>10711807 Try to read the apocalypse, Ruth, Sansan, Job, for example, instead of choosing a dozen lines of a immense book. That's intelectually dishonest, you should go and listen to skrilexx while sucking a turd from a crack whore's anus.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 09:30:16 2018 No.10711962 >>10711716 Watch this series of shot clips >https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7nLo2AK4fs&list=PLuXxHEHGRVu9H54IfV0XkhnqkcC3wm8mR >>10711754 That is the one thing it got going for itself.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 09:32:13 2018 No.10711968
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In all honesty, it's not. It's incredibly repetitive and poorly structured, and it seems to be mostly preaching to the choir. Most of it is just dull and God being a dick. It's not as bad as the worst parts of the OT, but not nearly as good as its best parts, either.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 09:37:02 2018 No.10711984

I'm reading it right now an i must also say it is just quite boring most of the time.
Also i you didn't know it was the holy book of Islam it could easily pass as another book of the Old Testament. I'm about half way and they told the story of Moses fleeing Egypt about 6 times again and again.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:10:46 2018 No.10712106 >>10711506 It's just about how you will go to hell if you don't accept mohamet. Does that sound good to you?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:12:36 2018 No.10712113 >>10711984 Most of the stories are from the talmud and apochryphal folktales.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:17:38 2018 No.10712135 >>10711824 I suggest you takeyour own advice before making suggestions

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:19:05 2018 No.10712141 >>10711716 It's a heresy, like arianism but dumber, into the trash it goes.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:24:42 2018 No.10712167 >>10711824 That is an exaggeration.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:27:37 2018 No.10712409

>>10712135
>>10712167
My studies of religion continues, and though I'm trying my best to find some good that goes with the evil in the Quran it is thus far an almost entirely one-sided situation. Even the section I quite like in regards to 'being just' no matter the opposition, we must look into 'what is just' in Islam. If a wife does not obey her husband, then she must be instructed on how she's wrong, then she must be forsaken from bed if she continues, and finally she must be struck if she continues. What is just in regards to Jews and Christians? Well first and foremost, as is said SEVERAL times in the Quran, don't take them as allies. It goes into particular detail about not trusting Jews. I'm certain Hitler would have very much enjoyed the Quran if he had read it. Well, what is just if a Muslim questions their faith and considers converting to a different faith? Death, that is what is just, so justice in itself based on western standards and western values might not be just at all, in fact it might scream of injustice to be just by Islamic standards.

If you think I'm not studying Islam correctly, if you think I'm exaggerating, then by all means, read the Quran and draw your own interpretation. Well, there is in and of itself a problem; the Quran is the word of God and must be taken as literally as possible. The Bible is open to interpretation after all Jesus Christ had even questioned or openly went against aspects of the Old Testament, and in Christianity the New Testament does indeed supersede the Old Testament not just in chronology but also in importance. If the New and Old conflict, go with the New, and scholars of Islam agree with that sentiment in the Quran. If an older verse conflicts with a newer verse, go with the new. It's rather unfortunate that most of the 'peaceful' aspects of Islam is in the earlier sections of the book while much of the more violent and warmongering sections are later in the book towards the end of Prophet Muhammad's life.

I believe if Islam is to truly be compatible with the west, then they are in desperate need of their own New Testament with a hippie-like Muslim-version of Jesus that calls out against violence. The problem is that the Quran is the word of God, of Allah, it is not up for interpretation or alteration, it is fixed, it is as it is and it must not change. It CANNOT change, meanwhile Christianity is far more flexible and can change with the times thanks to Christ's teachings. I mean, the Bible tells slaves to obey their masters, says it in both the Old and New Testaments, but you'd be hard pressed to find Christians who want slaves to return. I don't even know if those of the Westborough Baptist church, which is probably the Christians most hated by the overall Christian society, essentially the most extremist of Christians, would want slavery back. If they do, they are a VERY, VERY small minority. Meanwhile in many Muslim nations they still have slavery to this very day.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:41:23 2018 No.10712461 File: 152 KB, 720x494, dt7hctmajmg01.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10711509 >>10711618 Omg he DID NOT JUST SAY thAt Im ssso triggered right now oMG stoP ThiS MadLaD befoRe he SeriouSLY HuRtS SoMeOnE!!!! :O edgy af

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:42:27 2018 No.10712467

>>10712409
On the contrary.

I think the entire philosophy of accepting the Quran is indicative of forward-thinking momentum. Think of it this way: you have the most close-minded religion: Judaism. These people believe that the Jews are chosen. Still do. They are deluded. Islam addresses this issue. Moving on. Christianity. These people believe that Jesus Christ came and absolved us of our sins (good), and that he was the last prophet to come. There is no need for anything else.

With the Quran, the Quran states that it is yet ANOTHER sign from God. Showing that there will be more prophets after Jesus. And even though there are Muslims who say that Muhammad is the last prophet, there are many instances of the Quran predicting the future. I firmly believe there will be more prophets to come. My point about this is simple: God is real and the prophets don't stop. The space between them grows larger over time. Like prime numbers.

It's a basic concept. Nothing too far-reaching. You just have to understand that the idea that religion should be about a being (God) who isn't an interactive concurrent force with humanity is flawed. This is why I enjoy transcendentalism so much as well. Great philosophy, it is.

Islam is just compatible with progress in theology. It seems to me Judaism and Christianity are both too stagnant. But if God did send down a holy book (which I believe he did) then we have evidence that he will do various, unique signs. The fact that people are saying it reminds them of the Old Testament is because that's how God is. Believe it or not, while God can show himself in very psychological and divine ways, he has killed people before. What you have to understand is that fundamentally, God may not always enjoy the direction society is headed. That's why he intervenes. But if he intervenes with the way that society is headed, it's typically to smite an entire city or civilization. It's just how he is. People whine. People complain. That's exactly what they did in The Old Testament until he directly intervened. Let the infidels whine. Their hearts are hardened by God.

Hope this helps. The Quran teaches you to be patient with infidels. The Shias, Sunnis, Sufis, Kurds, w/e, they all have it wrong. We are in some dire need of Quranism these days.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:45:15 2018 No.10712476 >>10711506 Yeah, just make sure you get an annotated one (this applies to all scripture). Sometimes there are some verses that are sorta vague and then it helps to have an annotation to explain how it's typically interpreted.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:45:36 2018 No.10712478
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>>10711754
>Islam is antithetical to modern liberal values
Based.
>>10711506
Don't bother asking here if you want an unbiased opinion OP.

/lit/ is filled with christcucks and libshits.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:47:18 2018 No.10712487 >>10711754 thats literally just a fancy way of saying "muh women rights"

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:51:07 2018 No.10712503

>>10711824
This is the speech of someone who has clearly never read the book.

>>10711506
I suggest looking at a tafseer, rather than just a translation. It goes more in depth, and you catch subtleties you might miss otherwise. If you prefer a simple translation, tho, I recommend the Oxford translation written by Abdel Haleem. It is written in simple, clear, modern English, and he uses footnotes and references well.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:59:10 2018 No.10712540 >>10712409 Sounds like a response from a typical Christcuck. You should talk to Islamic scholars. They don't interpret everything literally.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 12:06:14 2018 No.10712572 >>10711754 That's the cop out answer people give because they don't want to admit it's because of racial feeling

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 12:17:37 2018 No.10712627 Its all about muh rewards and muh punishments after the day of resurrection. It doesnt say that often to kill infidels, but it does say often that infidels will be cast into eternal hellfire in the afterlife, so muslims just have to be patient.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 12:19:23 2018 No.10712640 >>10711716 It has self insulation against reform, which is very dangerous. It claims that it is the final word on religion, and the anything that comes after it is not valid and should be regarded as evil.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 12:23:42 2018 No.10712655 >>10711648 >believing a persian's 200 year old chinese whispers

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 12:26:50 2018 No.10712665

>>10711824
>Replace Quran with the word Bible.

On a serious point, the term "believer," and "unbeliever," are never defined.

So an atheist, beer drinking empiricist scientist man who is a nice person is probably more of a Muslim than a Saudi sheikh spreading filth.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 12:28:17 2018 No.10712672 >>10712409 >tfw not been bitch-slapped by Ahmed Deedat yet.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 12:30:12 2018 No.10712684 >>10712467 BASED Quranist. Tolu-E-Islam where?

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 12:57:34 2018 No.10712794

>>10712467
>the Quran states that it is yet ANOTHER sign from God. Showing that there will be more prophets after Jesus

The Quran clearly states that Muhammed is the last prophet, you retard:

>Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah, of all things, Knowing. (33:40)

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 13:10:57 2018 No.10712841

>>10711506
If you ignore the fact that it can be boring as hell in some parts, them isen't a bad read.
It's always nice to take a glimpse of holy books of big religions.
And also, you will be able debunk any retard who says the Quran don't have any violence or that the religion has no prejudice against the gays, women and so on.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 13:17:07 2018 No.10712869

>>10711716
I don't hate islam, apologist. And don't come with the "no meme anwsers" card.
Islam right now has a massive problem, that is, the followers are acting like they are in the medieval times, when even then people didn't followed the book by everyline. This has more to do with the fact that today, the mainstream muslim is a ultraconservative who hates liberal tradition when suits his wills. He will cry against the liberal tradition when such thing allow people to critic his religion or his beliefes, but will be very quiet when this tradition allows him to preach that such tradition is evil and how opressed it makes him. Also, he will be very quiet when he wants casual sex or when he votes for more religion in public life.
Islam itself has no value, It's the followers who make the value, and so far it goes, the followers are making islam have a bad value for anyone who grown up in a free society, where we judge people by action, and not belief or what they are. Unlike muslim majority country where some of these are illegal

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 13:30:56 2018 No.10712926 File: 1.60 MB, 1696x6224, 1517012688675.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 13:32:02 2018 No.10712931 File: 1.56 MB, 1336x6290, 1517058485567.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10712926

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 13:35:56 2018 No.10712948 >>10711716 Its radical expansionism is very hostile to smaller native religions, though I would consider all Abrahamic religions to hold such traits.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 13:38:32 2018 No.10712963 >>10712869 TL;DR of this post is: The problem with Islam is that it's followers follow it exactly like how it is supposed to be and won't pander to my Liberal ideology.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 13:44:34 2018 No.10712988 If only all you burgers knew what life in England was like hahaha

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 13:50:37 2018 No.10713016 >>10712963 >muh white sharia

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 13:56:22 2018 No.10713057
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>>10713016
Who are you quoting?

And i don't support white sharia. I want Christianity to return it's original pure form before it was castrated by the ''Enlightenment'' and the French Revolution.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 13:59:38 2018 No.10713079 >>10711716 Its not that bad, some of the stuff is pretty decent.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 14:04:27 2018 No.10713107 >>10712963 Don't put words my mouth, anon. And don't say "my liberal ideology". I don't hate white people to be a leftist.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 14:11:28 2018 No.10713150

>>10713107
>Don't put words my mouth, anon.
Can't put them when they are already in your mouth.

>And don't say "my liberal ideology". I don't hate white people to be a leftist.

Do you have any idea what Liberalism is? It isn't just modern day leftism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 14:12:34 2018 No.10713157 >>10712540 Yeah they do, mudshit

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 14:15:10 2018 No.10713176 >>10712794 Fuck that interpretation, it's too pessimistic.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 14:19:59 2018 No.10713203

>>10713150
>Can't put them when they are already in your mouth.
No, they aren't. I put my opnion plain and simple: I don't have a problem with Islam, I have a problem with a big number of muslims, who have a backward and intolerant vision. This dosen't mean that islam in itself can't coexist with a free society, because religion should be a private question, not a public one like in muslim majority countrys. Also, even if some people say that you shouden't take what Mohammed say early in his life in comparisson with his late life, the quran isen't completely worthless. It's a medieval holy book, with many of the cultural traits of a time long past,that is, if there wasen't a movement to give rebirth to this backwards way of life (wahabbis for example).

>Do you have any idea what Liberalism is? It isn't just modern day leftism.
I know, but I taught you were talking about the american left world view. Since you aren't I, don't worry about.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 14:36:56 2018 No.10713277

>>10713203
>if there wasen't a movement to give rebirth to this backwards way of life (wahabbis for example).
Stopped reading right there. You definitely don't know shit about Islam.

Islam was never meant to be a ''private question''. It's why whenever ideologies like Liberalism, or secularism get crushed when they pop up in Islamic countries. They are inherently anti-Islam and no Muslim who actually follows his religion will never allow them to reduce the influence of Islam in his country.

Religion being a private affair is just you projecting your views on how things should be.

>know, but I taught you were talking about the american left world view. Since you aren't I, don't worry about.

What is with this cancerous grammar?

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 14:45:43 2018 No.10713314

>>10713277
>Religion being a private affair is just you projecting your views on how things should be.
>more them millenial for people to learn this shit and a dude say shit like that

>What is with this cancerous grammar?
I am brainlet, my grammar is fucking trash from time to time.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 14:51:12 2018 No.10713353
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>>10712467
>These people believe that Jesus Christ came and absolved us of our sins (good), and that he was the last prophet to come

Paul? John the Revelator? The finality of Christianity is in the fact that Christ's death and resurrection was the final blood sacrifice necessary to atone for sin, the blood of a mortal lamb will cover sins for a time, but the blood of immortal God willingly shed will cover sins forever.

>You just have to understand that the idea that religion should be about a being (God) who isn't an interactive concurrent force with humanity is flawed

Yeah it is flawed, which is why it isn't part of Christian belief, what Christians claim that God doesn't interact with the world? Maybe the claim is that there are no more prophets today - which is reasonable since there is no need for any more prophets as the whole revelation of God is contained within the Bible. That's not the same as claiming that God doesn't interact with the world.

Regarding the wrathful nature of God in the OT, just because the NT doesn't focus primarily on God's wrath doesn't mean it has disappeared or that Christians don't believe in a wrathful God. Read Revelation if you want to see what God's apocalyptic wrath will look like. The NT focuses on the loving, forgiving nature of God more specifically because that is what it's about - the redeeming, forgiving work of God through Christ's sacrifice. Nothing in there contradicts or undermines the OT. The OT has plenty of content describing the loving and forgiving nature of God, read the Psalms. OT has more historical content regarding the building and tearing down of nations over centuries, which is one reason why there is more violence. Whereas NT focuses on individuals in one place at one time. There are still instances of God's wrath in the early church, see Ananias and Sapphia. God is both loving and wrathful, the creator of all existence and the originator of 'love' and 'wrath' obviously perfectly understands both emotions (and more).

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 14:51:45 2018 No.10713355 >>10712141 Heresy? Islam says there is one god. Catholicism says god is 3 and one is his son. Which makes more sense really?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 14:52:05 2018 No.10713359 File: 13 KB, 246x205, burn islam.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10711506 FUCK ISLAM!!!

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 14:55:24 2018 No.10713376 File: 45 KB, 720x720, what_Islam_offers.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10711506

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 14:58:16 2018 No.10713388

>>10713353
Oh I'm well aware of God's qualities. I know God myself, as you should as well.

The only way this discussion in God is invalid is if you don't have 100% faith that he is indeed real.

On a side note, I think there will be another chapter in the Abrahamic religion in the future, rather it may just be a more psychological one. I believe that prophets do continue, and this belief is something that is being felt concurrently throughout reality. Religion will, and must, like everything else, move forward.

>>	This Sat Feb 17 14:58:36 2018 No.10713393 >>10711798 Yeah, but also there are gay mulsums but we all know what happen with them

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 15:04:39 2018 No.10713424 >>10711506 It was supposed to be a warning, not a manual.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 15:14:24 2018 No.10713461 If you want to read any religious texts just read the Gita, Bible or Tibetan Book of the Dead. Much better.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 15:16:26 2018 No.10713476 It's a Luciferian death cult that kills anyone who tried to leave.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 15:19:53 2018 No.10713488

>>10712503
I have not read the whole book YET. It will come in time. For now, I have read quite a bit of it, and even have a series of papers that have quotes from the Quran that I have collected, both good and bad. It just so happens that it's around 90% bad and even in the amount that is 'good', in context based on the standards of western civilization (best civilization in the history of mankind) it's still bad. I can share the verses if you want, there are many.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 15:21:59 2018 No.10713494 >>10713388 >Religion will, and must, like everything else, move forward. Nah.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 15:25:07 2018 No.10713509 This thread reeks of the the_donald. Don't you guys get bored? Or is it the bountiful energy of the youth (underaged posters)?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 15:25:34 2018 No.10713511 >>10711754 >Islam is antithetical to modern liberal values good

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 15:33:50 2018 No.10713552
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>>10713388
I'm not sure what you mean about the discussion being invalid.

Maybe you should start the next Abrahamic religion? What you've said so far defies the teaching of the Islamic faith (no more prophets after Mohammed) and the logic of the Christian faith (no further revelation necessary) so maybe you are the prophet of this new religion.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 15:37:20 2018 No.10713562
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>>10713488
>western civilization (best civilization in the history of mankind)
The values of the liberal West are so fucking cancerous that it's fertility rates and the ones who emulate it have reached rock bottom and now have to import the same Muslims you despise to keep your countries standing. Your values LITERALLY allow Muslims to conquer you and outbreed you.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 15:38:26 2018 No.10713565

>>10712409
>Meanwhile in many Muslim nations they still have slavery to this very day
Slavery is more likely an Arab thing rather than an Islamic one, Arabs are very racist, also giving the fucked up political situation in the middle east compared of that of the west, it's pretty understandable if horrible things like that happen
Also Mohammad nearly ended slavery, and I don't think there has been ever a religion as opposing to slavery as Islam is

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 15:45:26 2018 No.10713593 >>10712467 damn son. Imagine being THIS wrong and delusional.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 15:50:59 2018 No.10713632 >>10712869 sounds like an ex-muslim

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 15:53:58 2018 No.10713644

>>10712869
>the problem of islam is
>goes on to whine about people that claim to be muslim
>islam itself has no value
>the followers make the value

This is just simply wrong. The message is descriptive. It describes how a believer should behave and be like. You can't just say I'm a Muslim and then you are one.
I agree that the majority of people who claim to be Muslim behave badly. However this says nothing about the inherent values of Islam itself.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Try writing in English next time btw you fucking illiterate piece of shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 15:59:59 2018 No.10713672 File: 7 KB, 229x220, 1496721441556.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10713644 >real islam has never been tried!

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 16:03:20 2018 No.10713692 >>10713176 don't worry anon, there's The Mahdi and Jesus is coming back also

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 16:05:39 2018 No.10713701 >>10711716 Because it's a religion chock full of terrorists and church-controlled states. This isn't a complicated one, anon

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 16:09:11 2018 No.10713711 >>10711506 message aside, it's just not particularly coherent. From what I read of it, it's like someone was following mohammed taking notes whenever he said something interesting, and then they put down the notes in an almost random order.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 16:11:30 2018 No.10713721 >>10712478 The Pope's a bitch. Next question.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 16:12:47 2018 No.10713729 >>10712572 It's not because of racial feeling, but I'd be lukewarm to that idea.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 16:13:09 2018 No.10713731

>>10713672
Yes, you always pull that face when someone brings up this point but hear me out.
The teachings are DESCRIPTIVE.
So read what God has to say. Then observe.
Does anyone obey? Well, maybe two or three in a million people. Might be even someone who hasn't even heard of islam.
Look at how God himself defines His religion (The Romans:30).
Allah says that the natural, untouched state of man is religion.
That means the natural state of man is that he doesn't steal, doesn't lie, doesn't talk behind someone elses back etc.
A fucking Eskimo on the north pole could be a perfect Muslim for all I know without even having heard the name Muhammad.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 16:18:04 2018 No.10713760

>>10711716

I don't like it because it's literally a stupid religion. Aside from a few small and precious sects they reject the notion that the universe a rational and knowable thing. Scientific or philosophical discovery is at the least borderline heresy because we're not supposed to question God in who he is or his capabilities. The only true knowledge to a Muslim is revelation.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 16:19:22 2018 No.10713767 >>10711807 >There are lists in what is supposed to be a historical record Color me shocked.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 16:31:20 2018 No.10713818

>>10713644
>>10713672
>implying people who are muslims need to follow every fucking bullshit the Quran says or that their actions alone are proof that the problem is in islam itself

There are and were people who follow islam and can live okay with anyone else. They can even criticize their own fucking religion, althought this is absurdly rare.
People and often do give up a bunch of their religious dogmas in order to pursue something more secular. This bullshit happened with christianity (although say that islam and christianity would follow the same path to secularization is a big mistake), I don't see why can't happen in islam.
Even if the religion itself is no more than a bunch of pseudo-christian arabic way of life, millions of people follow and truly believe it, and althought majority of them now have backward vision of the world and are bigoted to the extreme, I don't see why they couden't change, like, idk, christianity or any other religion.
I wonder what is people suggestion then? Should we kill all muslims? Ban islam? Ban any muslim from living in other countrys other than theirs? There was a time when islam was on their way be a more tolerant and cosmopolitan religion, than they have fallen and cant get up now. And this is getting worst because of saudi funnding of wahabbi dogma.
Even Martin Luther said to let the Quran be published, even if he said in orther to refute it. I don't see why, in a near future, muslims couden't get in the same route and embrace a more free and liberal society. Because of their religion? Ffk, people break their religion all the time.
You guys are just triggered.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 16:34:15 2018 No.10713832

>>10713731
If the murderers of ISIS had never heard of Mohammed, if the guys who shot up the Bataclan weren't professing Muslims, would they still have done the things they did? Even if they have misinterpreted the Koran in your estimation, they were still inspired by it to commit acts of terrorism in the name of Islam. Your theory is nice but reality tells a different story. People who claim to be Muslims but commit violence are not 'real' Muslims - I can understand that viewpoint - but in practical terms this won't affect anybody's decision to accept or reject Islam.

Ye shall know them by their fruits. I have eyes to see and ears to hear and that's all I need to make my assessment of your religion.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 16:36:00 2018 No.10713842 >>10713818 here They will need to stop being such babies and face the faults in their religion tho. They also will need to give up some of their dogmas, and I would suggest to start stop using the veil, because this is fucking retarded.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 16:43:10 2018 No.10713875

>>10713842
>if they just change parts of their faith to be more in line with my beliefs then we can all get along just fine!

Why would any religious person, Christian or Muslim, do what you are suggesting? You've identified a problem but what you're proposing isn't a solution, why should they change to suit you? What's in it for them? I don't disagree with you, but what you're saying isn't realistic.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 16:46:15 2018 No.10713889

>>10713842
>They will need to stop being such babies and face the faults in their religion tho. They also will need to give up some of their dogmas, and I would suggest to start stop using the veil, because this is fucking retarded.
That's not gonna fucking happen. The last thing Muslims give a damn about is the opinion of some infidel on their values and culture.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 16:47:37 2018 No.10713895 >>10713157 Nice ad-hominem. Wonder if the Bible taught you that?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 16:49:46 2018 No.10713906 >>10713376 Anybody who posts that pic shouldn't be taken seriously.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 16:53:17 2018 No.10713919

>>10713832
whats your point though?
yes people do shit in the name of Allah, so?
do you know what logic is?
>but in practical terms this won't affect anybody's decision to accept or reject Islam.
So fucking what?
The goal of Islam is not to convert anyone. It just describes the reality we live in.

>>10713818
What the fuck are you even trying to say?
What is your point?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:06:09 2018 No.10713980 >>10713919 Actually yes Islam aims to convert people. It's called dawah. Please stop presenting your eccentric personal views as if they represent true Islam.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:09:34 2018 No.10713992

>>10713889
Atheism is exploding among youth in the Arab world right now. Even in saudi Arabia atheism is spreading like wildfire among young people.

It's always the case that intense fundamentalism is followed by irreligion which is what happened in Europe. So Islam won't be much of a problem for much longer.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:11:20 2018 No.10713997 >>10713731 God you're so brainwashed by this shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:11:57 2018 No.10714003 >>10713992 >It's always the case Always?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:14:07 2018 No.10714016 >>10714003 It is what's happening right now. Check the statistics. A large percentage Syrian, Saudi and Egyptian youth are atheist

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:14:54 2018 No.10714018 >>10713992 Society always returns to religion once they see how degenerate and dysfunctional the alternative is

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:16:12 2018 No.10714027

>>10713919
What's YOUR point? You're purposely ignoring the logical consequences of reality then. If Islam describes the reality of God, sin, and the afterlife, then obviously people are called to respond to that to determine where they end up after they die, and obviously the intended response is conversion to Islam.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:17:02 2018 No.10714030 >>10714018 Hasn't happened yet. Chrisitianity isn't coming back no matter how hard people larp. Perhaps something else will fill that void, but for the majority of plebs, hedonism and consumerism is satisfactory.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:19:59 2018 No.10714043 >>10714030 It's happened multiple times in Britain

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:20:07 2018 No.10714045

>>10714027
Islam doesn't accurately describe reality.

The quran is just a collection of folktales and vague threats of hell.

There's no way to know whether its eschatology is a correct description, and most of it's historical claims are incredibly revisionist. For example, the claim that Ishmael was the sacrifice, not Isaac meaning that Arabs were secretly the real chosen ones all along...

How does it feel to follow what basically amounts to the black Hebrew Israelites of Arabia?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:21:10 2018 No.10714050 >>10714043 Nope. The Protestant thing happened then there was a steady decrease in religiosity over centuries.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:23:14 2018 No.10714062 >>10713980 Citation needed. Surah and ayah please.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:25:01 2018 No.10714070 >>10714045 Read the post I was replying to anon. I am not a Muslim.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:28:22 2018 No.10714082 >>10711754 wtf i love Islam now

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:30:06 2018 No.10714096 >>10711824 >Horrors of Islam >Horrors of Mein Kampf Its obvious you haven't read either

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:31:18 2018 No.10714103

>>10713992
That doesn't fucking matter. I'm talking about Muslims, not ex-Muslims. Atheists have way less birth rates than Muslims and Muslims aren't gonna stop following their religion just because a few atheists popped up in their country. Apostates are punished by death and the Muslims would kill anyone who tries to force their values on them. This whats happening in Afghanistan with the Taliban and the U.S invasion, Same thing for the rise of ISIS. Islam isn't gonna get castrated like what happened to Christianity during the French revolution. Muslims would literally rather die.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:31:50 2018 No.10714108 >>10714062 You clearly don't know much, white boi.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:32:52 2018 No.10714111 >>10714103 Sure they would. Have you ever been to a Muslim country? It isn't as you seem to imagine.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:34:07 2018 No.10714115 >>10714062 Umm sweetie... What was the whole point of Muhammads preaching if not to convert people? Then they spread Islam from Spain to China. Totally not to convert people though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:37:54 2018 No.10714132 >>10714030 Eastern spirituality and philosophy is filling that void.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:41:52 2018 No.10714144 File: 32 KB, 645x729, 1512155538722.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10714103

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:42:19 2018 No.10714146 The Qur'an is truly a beautiful book, after reading it for the first time, I always try to share it's words with other people like my family. The sounds and the wisdom is healing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:42:27 2018 No.10714147 >>10714108 >>10714115 Thats what i thought.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:42:29 2018 No.10714149
File: 83 KB, 960x533, 1515547141455.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10714111
>Sure they would. Have you ever been to a Muslim country? It isn't as you seem to imagine.

Bitch. I literally live in SAUDI ARABIA. Trust me when i say this. You and neither anyone in this thread have an atom of an idea of how much people value their religion here. If you unironically think Muslims think are gonna start abandoning Islam in droves in the coming decades and become a joke like modern ''Christianity'' i have some REALLY BAD NEWS for you. Islam isn't going any time soon and better deal with it. Sorry if that is unfathomable for your progressive whig liberal brain.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:43:24 2018 No.10714153 >>10714018 Religion has been dead since the Enlightenment, brainlet.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:43:32 2018 No.10714155 >>10714144 Great argument. You sure showed me.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:45:37 2018 No.10714163 >>10713565 >Also Mohammad nearly ended slavery, and I don't think there has been ever a religion as opposing to slavery as Islam is you can't make bait this obvious, Bruce

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:45:50 2018 No.10714167 >>10714153 Yeah in the West. It will still return to religion once the modern prosperity of the West is gone, just like how it ended with Rome.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:47:16 2018 No.10714172 >>10714149 Why are you lying? Saudi youth are irrelgious, if not atheist and mostly materialistic homosexuals. You are an angry person. So much for Islam being peaceful.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:47:50 2018 No.10714174 >>10714155 You're a fucking low IQ retarded goat fucker. Birthrates don't fucking matter. Atheism isn't a genetic disease.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:50:07 2018 No.10714183 >>10714167 If the modern prosperity of the West will go away it is going to get replaced by China, not by some low IQ inbred Muslim goatfuckers. By the way, nothing "goes away" in the age of the atomic bomb. There's only decline and growth.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:52:35 2018 No.10714195 >>10714172 Look at the atheist, trying to debate culture with someone who lives there. What are you looking at? Some graph or something?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:53:19 2018 No.10714197 >>10714167 Not your religion though you low iq goat fucking mudshit

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:54:43 2018 No.10714205 >>10714195 You are lying about living there white boy. Lying to win an argument on the internet. I'm not an atheist. I'm an apostate from Islam and know all about your cult.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:55:15 2018 No.10714208
File: 251 KB, 819x973, Hypocrites..png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10714172
>Why are you lying?
I really don't care if you believe me, or not.

>Saudi youth are irrelgious, if not atheist and mostly materialistic homosexuals.
Their not. They are starting to become even more religious now that all the materialism from petrol is disappearing.

>You are an angry person. So much for Islam being peaceful.
*Yawn*

>>10714183
Birthrates don't fucking matter.
Oh they do. They really do. You wouldn't be importing Africans and Muslims to your countries to heal your falling birth rates if they didn't.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:58:03 2018 No.10714215 >>10714208 Meant to reply to >>10714174

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 17:58:50 2018 No.10714219 >>10714208 You have bad akhlaq. You are full of anger and hatred. You are a liar. We know your religion by its fruits your display.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:01:53 2018 No.10714231 >>10714208 Jesus fucking Christ you're stupid, no wonder you're a sandnigger. When I said that "birthrates don't matter" I meant in the sense that they don't matter in deciding whether religion declines or not. You stupid goatfucker.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:07:41 2018 No.10714259
File: 952 KB, 1262x2094, The death of the West.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10714219
>You have bad akhlaq
I'm not. I'm simply treating people with the same manners they treat me.

>You are full of anger and hatred.
Not really. I'm not gonna tolerate blatant attacks my deen though.

>You are a liar.
Keep telling yourself that.

>We know your religion by its fruits your display.
I don't care what some apostate thinks of my religion.

>When I said that "birthrates don't matter" I meant in the sense that they don't matter in deciding whether religion declines or not.
And you would still be wrong. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world thanks to it's followers birth rates. It's funny seeing your pathetic dying culture though. So degenerate and hedonistic that it has to import people that oppose it to sustain itself.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:09:07 2018 No.10714264 >>10714259 aganist my deen*

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:09:34 2018 No.10714265 The Holy Bible is better

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:12:48 2018 No.10714280 As a man who's read both, The Holy Bible is so enlightening. I read the quran on the idea that i need to "Know thy enemy"

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:13:38 2018 No.10714285 >>10714259 >Degenerate and hedonistic Said the low IQ goatfucker. Why don't your people stay in their fucking countries if the West is so horrible?

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:14:01 2018 No.10714289

>>10714259
Ok so Muslims are only nice to people who are nice to them. Such elevated morality.

You are a deluded low iq goat fucker. Islam isn't about truth for you people. It's about identity and pride. You feel inferior to us so you feel the need to prove us wrong. You simply can't fathom the fact that Allah gave the kuffar all this power and technology when Islam is supposed to be the true religion. You're jealous and resentful towards us because we are superior. Truth has no place in your delusions. You only care about defending your Islamic identity. Your imagined idea of yourself which your inferior culture has brainwashed you with.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:18:49 2018 No.10714307 >>10714289 Why should people be nice to those that insult you? You insult me, I insult you back.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:18:53 2018 No.10714308 >>10714259 You constantly swear and insult. Is that how muchammed behaved towards the polytheists?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:19:55 2018 No.10714316 >>10714307 So you admit Christians are better than you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:20:24 2018 No.10714319 >>10714280 >thy enemy Muslims are not your enemy. I suppose I should be happy many people are becoming open to the idea of the Koran's validity here on 4chan though. This thread is a great example.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:22:02 2018 No.10714328 >>10714319 Mudshits are the enemy of all free people.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:22:17 2018 No.10714330 >>10714316 Christians are pussies, that's not really a matter of 'being better'.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:23:29 2018 No.10714340 >>10714289 >It's about identity and pride Spoken like a true hypocritical Christian. I'm a white Muslim by the way. There are many here.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:23:47 2018 No.10714342 >>10714330 Christians forgive those who insult them. Muslims insult back. You're no better than someone with no religion since your religion doesn't elevate your moral behavior at all.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:23:53 2018 No.10714344

>>10714319
>Muslims are not your enemy
They're a threat, and aren't Christians, so they are inherently an enemy. They also stole Constantinople.

>Korans validity.
alright Hans, enoughs enough. Its as valid as the Book of Scientology; destructive and degenerate books of how to live and form communities

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:24:31 2018 No.10714346 >>10714328 See >>10714340

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:25:05 2018 No.10714350 >>10714342 burnnnnn >>10714330 Christians forgive. But poke a Lion long enough and he'll rip the heads off every fucker that isn't like him

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:25:06 2018 No.10714351 >>10714328 If you identify yourself with an ideology, belief, philosophy, etc. you are not actually free. If you want to be free, you have to not cling to any 'isms'.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:25:44 2018 No.10714353

>>10714344
Enough of what? The truth? Clearly your heart is turned from good.

Listen, we are trying to push the entire Abrahamic religion forward and people like you Christians and Jews just keep holding everything down. Spiritual progress is hard, but it will happen!

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:25:54 2018 No.10714354

>>10714340
You don't understand your own mind. It's clear to everyone here that this is about pride for you. Muslims don't care about truth, only maintaining their false view of self which is their identity as Muslims.

Being white doesn't mean you don't fuck goats.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:26:47 2018 No.10714356

>>10714350
>But poke a Lion long enough and he'll rip the heads off every fucker that isn't like him
Clearly you're just butthurt about being on the losing side.

You're not even trying to hide it at this point. Christians lost. Just give it up faggot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:27:52 2018 No.10714362 >>10714354 It means I chose the religion because I'm not absorbed with identity politics, like yourself.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:28:46 2018 No.10714365 >>10713906 The truth hurts.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:28:50 2018 No.10714366

>>10714289
>Ok so Muslims are only nice to people who are nice to them. Such elevated morality.
Yeah. We are nice to people who are nice to us and hostile to people who are hostile to us. Nothing wrong with that.

>Islam isn't about truth for you people. It's about identity and pride. You feel inferior to us so you feel the need to prove us wrong. You simply can't fathom the fact that Allah gave the kuffar all this power and technology when Islam is supposed to be the true religion. You're jealous and resentful towards us because we are superior. Truth has no place in your delusions. You only care about defending your Islamic identity. Your imagined idea of yourself which your inferior culture has brainwashed you with.
This is nice projecting and all, but no. I believe in Islam because i believe in it's illah, holy book, all of it's prophets (PBUH all) and it's messenger SAW. I don't believe western culture is superior in any way, shape, or form. Western culture is a disgusting, degenerate, hedonistic, materialistic culture that is filled with abortion, low birth rates, kids with anime hair that will screech at you for thinking homosexuals are mentally ill, cows that moan about male oppression yet take Alimony, and adultery.

They love to moan about how they love science, deny basic scientific facts like how intoxicants are objectively harmful for you and will sing a different tune when you point out the biological inferiority of women simply because it's against their liberal ideology.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:29:13 2018 No.10714369 >>10714362 You chose Islam to give yourself a constructed identity because you don't have one of your own, you deracinated white boy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:29:22 2018 No.10714370 File: 116 KB, 720x578, IMG_20180218_002757.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10714340 >White >Complains about muh degeneracy and hedonism >Muslim convert Are you this guy?

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:29:39 2018 No.10714372

I've read some of the Qu'ran.

Part of the book are unironically beautiful. Once or twice, I paused to re-read a particular line again, simply for seeming so inspired.

If that's all the Qu'ran was -- these scattered bits of poetry -- I'd convert to Islam.

But then you go down another paragraph and it's back to "THE WICKED UNBELIEVERS SHALL KNOW THE SWORD."

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:30:09 2018 No.10714374 >>10714353 Muslims are like Orcs: dumb, angry, obedient. but in the end, a couple of well disciplined men will kill 100 of them no problems. Christians are the ultimate in spiritual and civilisational pride and efficiency.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:31:30 2018 No.10714379

>>10714366
You don't know why you believe in Islam because you aren't self conscious. You are completely motivated by psychological forces like lacking an identity and resentment towards others, probably originating with the people who bullied you in school.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:32:58 2018 No.10714385

>>10714379
>You don't know why you believe in Islam because you aren't self conscious. You are completely motivated by psychological forces like lacking an identity and resentment towards others, probably originating with the people who bullied you in school.
More projection. This is getting pathetic.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:34:20 2018 No.10714391

>>10714369
You're mad at me because you don't have an identity because of Christianity and Judaism. LOL.

Burn! Burn in hell!

>>10714374
I am a very efficient member of society because of Islam. I am also very forward-thinking, pray in front of people all the time and love God and everyone around me. You are absolutely moronic.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:34:25 2018 No.10714393 >>10714365 As much 'truth' as thinking the Earth is flat.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:34:52 2018 No.10714398 >>10714374 >Christians are the ultimate in spiritual and civilisational pride and efficiency. Is that why ''Christian'' countries are the most degenerate and materialistic countries in world?

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:34:58 2018 No.10714399

>>10711716
They are the Jews' controlled opposition. They have been so since at least before the time of the Moorish conquest of Spain. They are the tip of the spear for Jewish conquest.
https://www.mintpressnews.com/israel-reconfirms-commitment-to-treating-wounded-syrian-al-nusra-fighters/226714/

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:37:22 2018 No.10714411 >>10714374 Yeah ever since the Enlightenment happened this was proven to be false. Voltaire made fun of Islam, but he also made fun of Christianity.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:38:42 2018 No.10714420 >>10714385 You might want to learn what projection is before you use that word again.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:39:24 2018 No.10714427

>>10714393
Anyone of any race or religion may commit those acts. What the pictograph portrays, however, are activities that are sanctioned by the religion that are manifested on a regular basis by ardent followers of the faith. These are not abstractions.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:39:54 2018 No.10714431 >>10714398 People following Islam doesn't make it true. Neither does people not following chrisitianity make it untrue. Such low iq you lack basic critical thinking skills.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:40:37 2018 No.10714433 >>10713376 Your pictograph is missing male genital mutilation. They observe circumcision.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:41:58 2018 No.10714437 Who cares what a 2-minute made pictograph says about stuff? No quotes, no citations, no primary sources to back all those assumptions up.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:42:25 2018 No.10714440 >>10714398 >Degenerate and hedonistic t. has 6 wives but fucks goats and children. Is this why your people keep coming to our countries en masse?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:42:52 2018 No.10714443 I remember lit being a bit more sophisticated than this... I mean some of the posts are decent but there low effort underage tier comments like this. >>10713376

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:43:01 2018 No.10714445 >>10714398 >Is that why ''Christian'' countries are the most degenerate and materialistic countries in world? Are you referencing the USA where we follow the Jewish tradition of Xmas?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:43:57 2018 No.10714451 >>10714440 Muslims are degenerate too. Most humans are in private.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:44:03 2018 No.10714453
File: 18 KB, 248x189, Every time..jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10714431
>Christians are the ultimate in spiritual and civilisational pride and efficiency.

>Point out the degeneracy and materialism in ''Christian'' countries.

>immediately changes the subject

The absolute state of christcucks

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:44:28 2018 No.10714454 >>10714440 Dumb westerner thinking some Taliban video means everyone is like that. More of your people fuck animals and children statistically.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:44:33 2018 No.10714455 >>10714443 >ad hominem attack = valid argument

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:46:56 2018 No.10714465 >>10714440 Polygamy beyond 4 wives is not allowed in Islam and Bestiality and Pederasty is punishable by death in Islam .

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:47:45 2018 No.10714469 >>10714411 What is Truth?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:48:51 2018 No.10714474 >>10714465 Bestiality has no punishment in islam

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:50:12 2018 No.10714477 >>10713057 get the fuck out of here. what kind of faggot screenshots his own post? you're wrong and you have always been wrong.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:50:17 2018 No.10714478 >>10714465 Yet Muslims do it anyway. You also didn't answer my question.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:51:29 2018 No.10714482 >>10714455 What an underage response. Did you learn that from your favourite YouTube intellectual?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:52:50 2018 No.10714485 >>10714453 well the "christian countries" that see the degeneracy are conducted by people who lost their way with God You look at the people who are actually Christian and they're gloriously upstanding people

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:52:53 2018 No.10714486 >>10714454 >He thinks statics about Muslim countries are reliable lmao

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:54:25 2018 No.10714493 >>10714477 >get the fuck out of here. what kind of faggot screenshots his own post? I didn't though. >you're wrong I don't think so. You're welcome to try.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:54:58 2018 No.10714497 File: 2.44 MB, 1696x6224, islam redpill.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10711506 Remember when that /lit/ anon absolutely BTFO Islam

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:55:03 2018 No.10714498 >>10714453 You're assuming it's the same person making those posts

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:56:05 2018 No.10714500 File: 2.37 MB, 1336x6290, islam redpill 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10714497 part two

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 18:58:52 2018 No.10714510 >>10714482 >What an underage response. Also not an argument. Shall we go for three in a row?

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 19:04:32 2018 No.10714524

>>10714497
>>10714500
This is bullshit. There's a lot to refute and I don't have the time, but one of his first claims is that the Quran had different versions. Yes, but not in terms of writing. It had different versions of pronounciation.

This other arguments are copy pasted from the typical anti Muslim sites written by Evangelical apologists. The Quran also doesn't state the Trinity is made of up of Mary.

And IslamQA is a salfist site. It's not the standard. He also excuses persecution as a result of preaching. "Annoying" people is totally a reason to kill and maim others, especially when the preaching wasn't done constantly. Meccans made money of their pagan practices and so they didn't want another religion. And they also made the same argument Pagans made towards Christians: "not converting outside of the religion of my forefathers". The expulsion of Muslims from Medina is the fist act of violence, not the subsequent stopping of Meccan caravans. And the Jews in Medina were not all killed. It was one specific tribe among many who faced punishment as a result of breaking a treaty.

He also claims Muslims won because of superior numbers but that's idiotic considering Arabians come from a desert. They couldn't possibly outnumber the Romans and Sassanians. Deserts can't hold big populations, that's impossible.

The posts are full of twisting of some facts, exaggerations and adding lies. That guy also doesn't admit that the Roman's ally (the Ghassanids) executed a messenger which started the conflict between the Muslim Arabs and the allies of the Roman which tend accumulated into a bigger conflict. He also doesn't realize that Sassanian Persia had territory in the Arabian peninsula. It's absolutely retarded to suggest that empires like the Romans were somehow innocents who didnt du nuffin to deserve getting conquered.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 19:11:52 2018 No.10714542 >>10714524 >That damage control SEETHING

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 19:17:42 2018 No.10714561 >>10714524 >The absolute state of muhammadcucks

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 19:35:55 2018 No.10714659 >>10714510 Yes why not? Try to converse without using phrases that psuedo intellectual use in an attempt to score points. The American debate style is truly vulgar.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 19:36:36 2018 No.10714661 File: 251 KB, 833x1100, 1348959822045.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10711506 obligatory memeposting

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 19:55:48 2018 No.10714733

>>10714542
>>10714561
Why is it that the only attacks against someone's religion that I see originating on this site are usually Christians or Jews? Just sad.

Christianity is far too pluralistic these days. I could say the same for Islam, but at least they believe that God sent them a physical sign and that he is someone to be feared. Christians are far too pusillanimous with their worldviews.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 19:56:55 2018 No.10714738 File: 39 KB, 281x400, tebow_jesus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] It's mostly just rhyming aphorisms. You have to read the commentary to really get anything out of it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 20:12:36 2018 No.10714824 >>10712640 So does Christianity

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 20:15:21 2018 No.10714837

>>10714062
All religions/ideologys are supposed to be preached. If he's intencion (be it of Mohammed or his followers) wasen't to make people muslims by preaching to them, what is the point of even having the religion anyway? Even in Ancient Greece the people were taught about the gods, why the fuck would islam be different ffs?
>>10713919
Trying to say that people can give up a bit of their dogmas to live less religious lifes. This happened before, this can happen in islam and the muslims. Point and simple. It won't make someone less muslim to have a less religious life, the same way a person is less christian living a less religious life.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 20:26:47 2018 No.10714880 >>10714837 Actually in islam you are less a Muslim by leaving rituals etc. Leaving the 5 daily prayers makes you an infidels for example

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 20:44:25 2018 No.10714948 >>10714149 That image is a half-truth: the true conquerors of the world were christian europeans and their american sons.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 20:48:06 2018 No.10714953

>>10714880
Only if you the strict fundamentalistic interpretation.
If people stop following this stupid view, than the mainstream of "you can pray whatever and whenever you want lol" gets in their heads.
This takes time however...
And saudi funding of mosques and wahabbi theologians only makes it harder.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 21:06:05 2018 No.10715022 >>10714880 you are forever a muslim when you uttered the syahadah you shit. Leaving prayers, killing and stealing will only add to your sins. You can be the biggest shitbag in the world and still be a muslim.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 21:14:07 2018 No.10715055 >>10715022 You can be a piece of shit and still be in a religion. You don't even need to follow prayer or anything. This is within every religion.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 21:34:47 2018 No.10715122 >>10714824 True. Both are pretty dangerous, historically speaking.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 21:38:09 2018 No.10715138 >>10713565 Make the case of Islam being anti-slavery.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 21:40:57 2018 No.10715148 >>10715138 he’s lying, muslims are the worst liars in the history of the world. Kikes and Nazis are more likely to tell the truth than muslims, they’re the worst people alive

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 21:42:39 2018 No.10715155 >>10714208 >I really don't care if you believe me, or not. How will you know if your taquiyya was successful or not?

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 21:51:17 2018 No.10715191

>>10714524
>The Quran also doesn't state the Trinity is made of up of Mary.
Got some bad news for you sweetie

>They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers. They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment.So will they not repent to Allah and seek His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

And the end part is the kicker

>The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.

S. 5:72-5

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 21:51:20 2018 No.10715192 >>10711754 Wtf, I'm a Sufist now

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 21:54:50 2018 No.10715215 >>10715148 >Muslims are the worst liars in the history of the world. Aren't you the same people who say ISIS are the true Muslims? Do you think ISIS are lying?

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 21:56:27 2018 No.10715228

>>10715191
And for bonus fun later on at 5: 116

>And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 21:58:42 2018 No.10715236 >>10715191 https://vocaroo.com/i/s04BBcVJlvXS

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 22:01:32 2018 No.10715250 >>10715236 la creatura...

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 22:01:38 2018 No.10715251 >>10715236 I dig your voice but Im guessing thats meant for another anon?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 22:08:23 2018 No.10715279 >>10714524 >I"VE BEEN FOUND OUT absolutely btfo

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 22:13:14 2018 No.10715302 >>10715251 No it was in response to yours. Not all posts have to be antagonistic or argumentative. God bless. >>10715250 LA LUZ EXTINGUIDO

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 22:16:33 2018 No.10715327 >>10711824 Christcuck

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 22:21:15 2018 No.10715351

>>10715302
Ah it seemed more targeted to the question of slavery. That said the issue here is not so much the name, but the traits of God. The passages quoted are instructions from Allah regarding why the Christian teachings are false - namely in that they ascribe "partners".

The issue is that the Koran is stated to be a perfect and uncorruptible text - Muslim's hold it to be a miracle and a proof of the teachings within - yet it makes exactly the kind of mistake you would expect a regular person to make - misunderstanding the trinity and thinking that Mary was a component instead of the Holy Spirit.

To assume that this is just a cultural misunderstanding is to start with the assumption the Koran as Muslims understand it is false.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 22:33:19 2018 No.10715410

>>10715351
>To assume that this is just a cultural misunderstanding is to start with the assumption the Koran as Muslims understand it is false.

I think you think much less of Muslims than you do of your fellow white brethren. I'm not accusing you of racism, because this is the least racist board on 4chan, but I am almost certain that people who retain their Muslim faith maintain that God is a loving being who is worldwide- and would adapt his message for any culture to which he came to.

In fact, maybe he does just that. Maybe the prophets will not end, and will be in different countries entirely. Who knows? In the end, all that is important is that we pray to God as he requires us to do, and that we give him our faith and spirit in its entirety for the faith of a better tomorrow.

No one is saying that Mary was part of the trinity. I think the point of these passages is just to clear up things. Worshiping Jesus as your God, for instance, is the same as worshiping Mary. It makes no sense. Jesus was immaculately conceived, true, that was a sign of God and God alone. Then he was born and professed that you worship God.

Then other writers like Paul and the various people who wrote the Gospels distorted what was said. But even in the Gospels he speaks for you to worship God and not himself. Clearly there is much truth to the Koran.

Worshiping a material being like Jesus Christ is fundamentally flawed. Although, for certain, God is man-like, perfect, and infallible, I can not picture him. I know he is the embodiment of perfect virtue, but I cannot say what he looks like. It is this very idea which resembles the Platonic good: it is impossible to conceive or even rationalize pure virtue. Even thinking about the concept of morals, virtues, etc. as flowing out from a perfect will is rather difficult. But those who pray to God as one being, instead of focusing on the materialistic aspects of reality and flesh by praying to Jesus Christ, fully benefit from God that much more than anyone else. They are able to contemplate the divine questions that you see posed on this site and elsewhere with much better accuracy and feeling than anyone else. Their lives, their essences, their personalities are composed wholly in a divine being which will punish others for being evil and will punish them for being evil. They have a reason, mentally, to be good. They believe in God because they should. It is this force which compels then in their day to day life. It is this idea, this notion, that unites them all. Clearly it is not such a bad idea to conceive of Islam, because as opposed to focusing on The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, you focus on no son, no holy spirit, not even a father. You focus on everything, and the perfection it springs from: God and the Earths and Heavens he has created.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 22:57:41 2018 No.10715545

>>10715410
You wouldnt happen to be Bahai would you?

>I think you think much less of Muslims than you do of your fellow white brethren.
What makes you think Im white or that I base my views on religion on race? Nothing in my posts have had any racial over or undertones.

>but I am almost certain that people who retain their Muslim faith maintain that God is a loving being who is worldwide- and would adapt his message for any culture to which he came to.
Do you think they view other religions as legitimate pathways to heaven now that the final revelation via Mohamed has announced?

>Maybe the prophets will not end, and will be in different countries entirely. Who knows?
In order to hold that view you literally have to reject what is written in the Koran and essentially say that Allah was lying to Mohamed.

>No one is saying that Mary was part of the trinity. I think the point of these passages is just to clear up things. Worshiping Jesus as your God, for instance, is the same as worshiping Mary. It makes no sense. Jesus was immaculately conceived, true, that was a sign of God and God alone. Then he was born and professed that you worship God.
So why do you think Allah would leave out the Holy Spirit during a discussion of the Christian Trinity and bring up Mary who is unrelated to that?

Look through them again

- Allah states that that those who associate others with Allah are barred from heaven.
-Allah then states his one-ness and then outline the Christian "third of three" - which discusses Jesus and then Mary and how this is a breach of this oneness.

>Then other writers like Paul and the various people who wrote the Gospels distorted what was said.
What makes you say this unless you accept the Koran as an axiom and reject Christianity by default.

>But even in the Gospels he speaks for you to worship God and not himself.
Not at all, infact he is worshiped in many instances and does rebuke the people doing so - likewise he makes claims of traits that only God could have, which is why the Pharisees had him killed.

>Clearly there is much truth to the Koran
Your truth is premised on rejecting the legitimacy of the Gospel accounts - which demonstrate a very human ignorance in it. Remember as a divine text one mistaken idea refutes its divinity - likewise a document having some truth in it does not make it divine.

>Worshiping a material being like Jesus Christ is fundamentally flawed...
Do you think Christians stopped worshiping Christ when he left the material world and ascended to heaven?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 23:01:42 2018 No.10715569 >>10715545 Don't do that greentext shit

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 23:03:55 2018 No.10715580 >>10715569 Will take that into account for your next response.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 23:13:26 2018 No.10715613

>>10715545
>Do you think they view other religions as legitimate pathways to heaven now that the final revelation via Mohamed has announced?
Much of what you're saying is of questionable philosophical/theological validity. This is important to address. First of all, I understand that I am going against the Quran a bit when I say that Muhammad is not the final prophet. Perhaps there is another prophet the Quran speaks of? Perhaps the Quran is speaking of the future even? These sorts of ideas are what spark my curiosity about this text in particular. I know it's heretical, but the reason I like this aspect of Quranism is because it moves beyond the basic notions of what the text was thought to be.

I do think, fundamentally, that they do accept that people will go to heaven if they believe in God and accept that God exists. There are many religions which make the individual be a good person. All of these religions will send the individual to heaven if they are indeed righteous. That's what I believe. The Qu'ran intermittenly states that the different religions will be punished for their different beliefs on the day of judgment, but it doesn't really state how much. I believe God to be the best judge so I leave that for him. For you not to see the beauty in the Quran is because your heart is cloudy, your vision blocked, you cannot see how incredible the message is.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 23:14:29 2018 No.10715621 >>10715580 Wasn't me.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 23:18:12 2018 No.10715630

>>10715410
>>10715351
This probably was indeed a misunderstand of the trinity. Until this day, you can come up to any muslim and ask about the it and the crushing majority will misunderstand it. Majority think that God literaly came down and screwed Mary, when It's nothing like that.
Then, this mixed with the influence of greek philosophers, literaly made the guys think that anything that isen't saying "god is one, nothing less" is a form of heathenry.

>>10715410
>But those who pray to God as one being, instead of focusing on the materialistic aspects of reality and flesh by praying to Jesus Christ, fully benefit from God that much more than anyone else.

This isen't what happen. There has been much theological debate over the flesh of Christ and many people take it as a mede methaphor. This stuff about materialismo was one of the reasons the reformation was even happening btw, some people taught that using images or even the cross was a form of idolatry, what is clearly untrue. There is no materialistic pray in Christ, when you pray to God, you pray directly at him.

> Worshiping Jesus as your God, for instance, is the same as worshiping Mary.
>Worshiping a material being like Jesus Christ is fundamentally flawed.
>Clearly it is not such a bad idea to conceive of Islam, because as opposed to focusing on The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, you focus on no son, no holy spirit, not even a father.
>misunderstanding Trinity

Exactly like I said: until this day, people don't get the trinity, specialy muslims. I wont make jokes of it because I too took time to just tip what trinity is.
When you pray to god, you don't focus in the three persons, you only focus in one, because neither of those persons are one another, but all are God. Even if someone prays to Jesus, they are praying to God.
There is a group of christians who don't follow trinitarianism (non-trinitarians), this was always a topic of major theological debate.

I will only say what I have been saying since the beggining: no matter the religion, people can and often do give up their dogmas for more earthly achievs, so is foolish to think that a person cant be a muslim and live in a free society. This dosen't take away the need for these same people to stop being a bunch of babies and stare at their religion with a critical eye, ready to give up dogmas that aren't usefull and ready to call the bullshit they will find in their holy book, like a lot of christians did. And this is what islam truly needs: people who aren't afraid to be critical of their religion.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 23:18:16 2018 No.10715631 >>10715613 >Islam is peaceful and tolerant as long as your heretically reject all of its core tenets.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 23:22:25 2018 No.10715643 >>10715631 Read my post. The only thing I'm against is the finality of the religion.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 23:25:39 2018 No.10715657

>>10715621
Fair enough, it did strike me as odd that someone who would post an audio link would have a problem with greentext.

Just looking over your posts though it seems like your brand of perennialism is rather distinct from Islam. In particular one of the big issues Islam has when it comes to the kind of changes you talk about is simply that it creates a high and dogmatic standard for itself beyond what you see in other religions. Because other religions are divinely inspired there is that human element that can explain and allow for the bullshit, however the Koran does not have that and to say that even one sentence is bullshit means to reject its central claim of divine authorship. Its what makes Islam so much less flexible.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 23:32:10 2018 No.10715688

>>10715613
>Much of what you're saying is of questionable philosophical/theological validity. This is important to address. First of all, I understand that I am going against the Quran a bit when I say that Muhammad is not the final prophet.
You do good, keep questioning. Don't just accept it, no matter how holy it may be.

> Perhaps there is another prophet the Quran speaks of? Perhaps the Quran is speaking of the future even? These sorts of ideas are what spark my curiosity about this text in particular. I know it's heretical, but the reason I like this aspect of Quranism is because it moves beyond the basic notions of what the text was thought to be.
This is something that realy pisses me the fuck off. Why would you question being heretical? Just because you are going against a dogma?It's not heretical to question because if God existes, he gave you the hability to make reason, so he surely will expect you to use it. Using reason on a holy book will please God, because you are searching for Truth, no matter what, and using his gift that he bestow unto you. So fucking do it. Don't be afraid of what others think, you need to question and use reason, always, because if God gave to you, he expects you to use it, always.
>For you not to see the beauty in the Quran is because your heart is cloudy, your vision blocked, you cannot see how incredible the message is.
Dude, don't preach. If you are to inquire the true meaning of the Quran, you need to preach less and reflect more. Always contemplate, that is what every religious text pretty much states.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 00:16:14 2018 No.10715880 >>10713376 Most of that also took place a few hundred years ago in europe Not sure about female genital mutilation, but everything else is historical fact done during the peak of Christianitys power

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 00:22:29 2018 No.10715915 >>10715880 How many of those things did Jesus do?

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 00:34:07 2018 No.10715961

>>10715915
Directly? He(or rather the dude that got cucked by god) probably owned slaves and casually participated and or passively observed most of the others. Worse if you count the early life shit that got edited out, Lil J man was a little shit.

Many of his followers(as in what everyone seems to be bitching about, followers of Mohammad vs followers of Jesus) got up to everything here, as well as fermenting rebellion, mass persecution and a monumental effort of negative propaganda(they made up half the nasty shit about Roman[the city] decadence to convince the traditionally prudish as fuck Romans[citizens] listen to them).

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 00:50:43 2018 No.10716021 >>10715961 Yes directly, what makes you think he owned slaves?

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 01:00:23 2018 No.10716061

>>10716021
Joseph was a carpenter and the Jews were just is much into slave ownership as anyone else back then. If Joseph was even remotely competent, he should have owned a slave or two to help with the shit works and a house slave to help Mary with cooking and shit.

If he actually had a successful carpentry business it would probably be a 5-10 slave work crew and 2-3 house slaves. This likely would have been glossed over as insignificant as fuck considering slave ownership was as casual as modern day car ownership.

If the whole, three wise men with gifts thing actually happened then I can almost guarantee that some of the gold would have gone to pimping out Joseph's workshop with a fresh slave or two plus a nanny/wet nurse for Jesus.

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 01:02:26 2018 No.10716068
File: 46 KB, 700x605, 7IE6Vjtm65m6T88FSwENZCWt8Nn3vQL1qHt0uZtpDC8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10711754
The brits propped up far-right islamo-fascist sunni wahabism by propping up the Saudi extremists and helping them take the cultural center of islam
The united states has agitated the middle east and helped the saudis further by giving them weapons and helping them commit genocide against more moderate quote "liberal" factions of muslims, especially those who embraced economic leftism or nationalism. like the Libyans.

The united states and the UK ultimately have helped spread islamofascism on purpose to create the narrative that the entire muslim world is a bunch of backwards savages. This is to have a pretense to invade for "human rights violations" and take natural resources. STEM Pseuds stepping outside of their fields of study like sam harris and richard dawkins expound upon this narrative by bringing islam under secular scrutiny.

It is not that islam isn't a dangerous ideology, it's that muslims and arabs deserve self-determination within their own regions and western imperialists fail to respect this time and time again in favor of creating their own enemies to squash.

This has gone on long enough.

None of you will respond in kind because you benefit economically from this deliberate mobilization of islamo-fascism as envisioned by the sunni wahabist monarchs.

At least the money and guns are moving the saudis a bit to the left. They are the controlled opposition after all. They're letting women drive now. The west is supposed to be tickled by this while slavery has returned to libya, genocide is happening in yemen, and turkey bombs the leftist nationalist kurdish allies who helped defeat isis with the blessing of the USA.

but it's only sustainable for so long.

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 01:12:26 2018 No.10716105

>>10713355
>>10712478
Islam says you have to accept a pedophile prophet or else you go to hell. It also says you have to accept fan-fiction as sacred scripture (hadith).
Thus, it partners a man (muhammad) with God and it partners the works of men (hadith) with "holy scripture", it's idolatry of the worst kind, and it shows from its practices/teachings. Even the shahada puts muhammad in the same sentence as God, it's not sufficient to just believe in Allah but you have to believe in the "way of the prophet" aka pedophilia.
God is everywhere but you have to pray to Saudi Arabia, towards mecca, for your prayers to be valid, because of Muhammad's picnic party in the last days. Give me a break.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 01:15:02 2018 No.10716115 >>10711506 Yes, but like any religious text needs some hermeneutics and research. Don't bother if you're not really interested.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 01:16:10 2018 No.10716123 >>10716105 >Mom! I posted it AGAIN!

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 01:18:39 2018 No.10716132 >>10716123 >Mom I'm speechless again! sucks for u, go read a good book, quran is poor

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 01:23:00 2018 No.10716150 >>10716132 Read any book, please. Get away from shitty alt-right tier websites.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 01:29:10 2018 No.10716183 File: 49 KB, 469x596, C9nq8_cV0AASU4l.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10716150 so historically blind

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 01:30:19 2018 No.10716188 File: 351 KB, 245x209, FullRetard.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10716177

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 01:31:57 2018 No.10716194 >>10716150 >critique islam = fascist never go full retard

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 01:36:58 2018 No.10716212 >>10716194 You just went full retard bro

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 05:05:54 2018 No.10716695

>>10716068
>
The united states and the UK ultimately have helped spread islamofascism on purpose to create the narrative that the entire muslim world is a bunch of backwards savages.

No, it fucking didnt. UK and US made several manuvering and even colonization, but nome of them supported any group of islamofascisms officiy. US alliance with Saudi is because of oil; and the UK and their shenanigans were the ones that even helped to start the Iranian Revolution, by being completa retarda.
And if you come to mention the mujahedin in the Soviet-Afghan War, then talk about the fact that it was a manuever to hurt the Soviets, just like they have helped the other communist uprisings in the past.
If all, the trend of ultraconservatives in islam is a reaction to western influence and globalization. A very stupid one, but one nonetheless.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 05:11:04 2018 No.10716702 >>10716695 the US has gone out of its way to protect and organize Islamic extremists at every level of society across the Islamic world.

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 05:18:03 2018 No.10716719

>>10716702
Like who? The only group I can think is Al-Quaeda, and this before 9/11, when the US learned the monster it helped to create. The US may help some groups of "freedom fighters" here and there, but It's less because they like, and more because they are manuevering.
If you ask me, "are they right doing so?", I will say no, they aren't. Surely there are plenty of willing rebel groups that don't want a theocracy to take place. But I am not stupid to say that, I would never do the same. Sometimes in this kind of situacions, you help a group because you don't see other option, not because you like that.
That thinfoil that theory of the US and UK doing on purpose to make middle-easterns look like savages is Illuminati levels of bullshit, I cant believe there are people who will think this kind of thing seriosly.
If anything, the countrys made what any other country would do (often done) if presented with the oportunity to grow their power in the international sphere: they would fucking do it. They did it because it helped them, not because they liked.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 05:25:39 2018 No.10716744 File: 882 KB, 720x1280, Screenshot_2018-02-18-04-24-11.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10711506 Read the updated version

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 05:44:15 2018 No.10716784

>>10716061
So your answer is no you have no basis to say Jesus owned slaves. The closest you have is the that his father as a carpenter in ancient times "probably" some on the assumption that all carpenters were successful business owners and never worked for others.

>I can almost guarantee that some of the gold would have gone to pimping out Joseph's workshop
A guarantee based on a pop culture understanding of history

>Joseph was a carpenter and the Jews were just is much into slave ownership as anyone else back then.
Not really, compared to other ancient peoples.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 05:45:44 2018 No.10716789 >>10711506 It's boring. And the parts that are not boring are not very logical.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 05:49:14 2018 No.10716793 File: 1.12 MB, 709x861, inquisition.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10711716 it's okay for a heresy but all heresies have to be purged

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 05:50:26 2018 No.10716797 >>10711775 and traditional christianity ofc isn''t ofc it is, too, but you asked why islam is shit. that doesn't mean traditional christianity is good. both suck. one more than the other, though. damnit, muslims are really stupid af.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 06:00:47 2018 No.10716823 >>10712461 hello fellow redditor

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 06:05:14 2018 No.10716841

>>10714837
>claims that thats how islam is supposed to be preached
>fails to deliver citation from the only source of knowledge about said religion

>It won't make someone less muslim to have a less religious life, the same way a person is less christian living a less religious life.
This does not make any sense.
>being less of a muslim doesnt mean that you're less of a muslim
this is what you're saying. Jesus christ you write like a retard.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 06:08:23 2018 No.10716854 This thread is filled with illiterate faggot retards. The absolute state of this board, jesus fucking christ.

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 06:16:50 2018 No.10716872

>>10716854
Fortunately, we have you. Someone who seems to be neither arrogant nor self-righteous, and gives a detailed and deep explanation what he disagrees with and not.

Listen idiot, either you have some arguments or gtfo. No one needs a loser like you saying pointless shit like "you all suck".

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 06:33:19 2018 No.10716909

>>10715657
Ah yes, this I understand. Much of this is the reason why I like Quranism so much, even if I do disagree with the finality of the religion itself. Now it seems we are getting somewhere. I think we would all agree that Sharia law is quite silly. That the overall idea that the Hadiths are generally ill informed.

Now this last opinion can actually be derived from justification from the fact that the Quran directly speaks against what many of the Gospels and writers interpreted Christ's message to be. But Christ himself, many would say, never asserted certain things others said. An intelligent point, huh?

It seems the forces of evil work closer than you would think with God. Almost every single time God tries to show himself, evil hems the prophet in on every side with various interpretations.

From this we can assert the Quran is not wholly good, because the finality of the prophet is not true. From this idea springs a new religion. Now we understand why the finalities of the prophets are in every religion: prophets will always exist, no matter the technology, and these prophets are always proof of a God that is beneficial for society. Now you see.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 06:34:50 2018 No.10716912 >>10716909 But I will add this: The Quran is the closest to God's actual word you will get. We know this, because it is a sign itself. And has even predicted the future.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 06:50:59 2018 No.10716937 >>10715022 Incorrect. Perhaps try learning your own religion. >>10714953 >But muh interpretation muh fugga That's just you. Every other Muslim authority in history and now says otherwise.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 06:54:51 2018 No.10716944 >>10715643 Whoever denies the khatim an-nabuwa, is an apostate. You are just a white boy larper.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 06:58:49 2018 No.10716952 >>10716909 You are clearly not a real Muslim, you just a white boy larping that he is. Muslims say Allah not god.

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 09:20:56 2018 No.10717345

>>10711506
In terms of literary value, no. Especially if its a translation since its structured around Arabic. But overall its repetitive (like most holy text), lacks consistency and employs very little narrative techniques. Most of the times its just a praise-Allah fest.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 10:50:14 2018 No.10717659 >>10716952 >>10716944 I can believe it if there wasn't something happening that disproves that Muhammad was the last prophet <.<>.>

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 11:01:14 2018 No.10717700 File: 32 KB, 480x600, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10711754

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 14:27:50 2018 No.10718691

>>10716784
Jesus was in no more position to own slaves than a child a house, had he gone on to live the standard issue jewish life of a successful tradesman then he certainly would have. He also almost certainly grew up in a slave owning house hold and surrounded by other slave owning families.

Muhammad lived like 60 years where Jesus only hit somewhere around his mid 20s and he spent the later part of that fucking around like a hippie instead of working.

>A guarantee based on a pop culture understanding of history

Dudes gave Joseph and Mary bling, they had to fuck off and hide from Herod to avoid the baby purge. They went to Egypt for a bit then went home after Herod died after a relatively short time in hiding.

Consequently, travel sucked and baby jesus needed a steady supply of milk to not die. Carrying all the shit and looking after a newborn baby is fucking hard while also playing refugee.

If they were in any way responsible, that money would have gone to buying a slave girl wet nurse plus one or two general helpers/guards.

Then they went back and had to establish themselves, assuming Joseph was the decent dude the bible claims that would mean investing money into the family business to ensure a respectable profit he can provide for his family with.

That means buying slaves to do the shit work in his construction business.

>Not really, compared to other ancient peoples.
Back your shit up, the only solid thing I can see is that the jews had some laws on slave treatment. Nothing I can find suggest they are any less into slave ownership than anyone else.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 14:35:13 2018 No.10718726 >>10718691 The rational position is that God favored both Jesus and Muhammad. Muhammad, though, was just a warner. Jesus came and performed miracles in the sights of men. They both came of the same God, but you know different times, different signs.

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 14:42:56 2018 No.10718775

>>10718726
The comparison was meant more towards the assets of a 20 year old vs a 60 year old of whom both are religious figures.

The point being that neither owned many assets as a child and young adult, the proper legal ownership of slaves did not come until they had properly established them selves professionally.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 14:43:56 2018 No.10718783 >>10718726 What about my boy Apollonius? He performed miracles as well and taught his disciples.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 14:44:46 2018 No.10718789 >Burn! Burn in hell! The quranist larper in this thread is perhaps one of the most immature people I've interacted with on this board. You need to grow up little boy.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 14:47:50 2018 No.10718804 >>10718789 I dont know. The newfag that cant even link a post seems like one hell of a fuckwit

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 14:50:56 2018 No.10718822 >>10718804 You're the larper aren't you

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 14:54:52 2018 No.10718840 >>10718822 Ah the newfag learns, no I am not the larper >>10718691 I am the guy arguing that Jesus lived in a similar society to Mohammad and thus they are both involved in similar shit I also think you are a mentally challenged fuckwit

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 14:58:56 2018 No.10718860

>>10716841
>>claims that thats how islam is supposed to be preached
>>fails to deliver citation from the only source of knowledge about said religion
>literaly ignoring how every religion worked

>This does not make any sense.
>this is what you're saying. Jesus christ you write like a retard.
Holy shit, did I wrote that? Fuck, I need to stop writting in the celphone. Let me correct myself them, its quite simple: you can be of any religious association and don't follow any dogma, and don't lose said participation. You don't need dogmas to live

>That's just you. Every other Muslim authority in history and now says otherwise.
Maybe time has already passed for more people to do the same than? What if the religious authoritys say otherwise? Who the fuck are them anyway? Fuck them. Muh interpretation > theirs interpretation+religious institucional power

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 15:29:17 2018 No.10719016 >>10718840 Yes you are. You are immature.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 15:35:13 2018 No.10719046 >>10716188 >tumblr reaction gif You're not making a good case for yourself with this non-argument-based reply scheme, Abdul.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 15:47:58 2018 No.10719117 File: 1.80 MB, 4032x3024, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10711509 This. My friend and I burned a copy a few night ago

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 15:52:37 2018 No.10719137 what's a good english academic/study quran to pick up? also, am i going to be put on a no fly list if i buy it online?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 16:05:51 2018 No.10719201 >>10711716 I don't actually. Muslims just tend to be insufferable shitskins in my experience

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 16:17:58 2018 No.10719265 To the muslim in this thread, why do you believe the Koran is the word of God?

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 16:50:28 2018 No.10719421

>>10719265
There are definitely many Muslims. I am one.

I believe it's the word of God because it has predicted the future, unveiled things in the past, is very much like the God we know of in the Old Testament (considering much of the God in the New Testament is just interpretation), and because it promotes non-aggression, except in defense.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 16:56:36 2018 No.10719443 >>10719421 What has it predicted ?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 17:02:51 2018 No.10719467 >>10719443 Correct shape of the world, the correct distribution of salt and freshwater throughout the world, the coming of the next prophet.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 17:05:14 2018 No.10719480 >>10719467 Can you show me the verse where it says the shape of the world? People knew about the shape of the world and salt fresh water not mixing before the 7th century.

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 17:14:04 2018 No.10719529
File: 11 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10719480
[Qu'ran 55: 33]O company of Jinn and man, escape the diameters (Aktar in Arabic اقطار) of the Heavens and the Earth if you can, You won't escape without authority.

This is the best one I can think of. Many people thought the earth was round. People all over did, dating way back to when Archimedes conceived his idea of the geocentric universe.

But it was not the accepted model until AFTER the Koran was given as a missive.

[25:53] He is the one who has set free the two kinds of water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter. And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition.

This is the section on fresh and saltwater. The most notable thing, is this is not said when speaking of waters in general. Although God says there are two different kinds of waters elsewhere in the Qu'ran, he does not mention anything about a partition when talking about the sea. Pic related obviously.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 17:17:16 2018 No.10719549 >>10719529 UNTIL he talks about the sea, rather.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 17:20:32 2018 No.10719572 >>10713057 >Jesus said the OT was the word of God and that he would not change a single law of it But he literally did when he healed people during the day of rest and when he pardoned an adulterous woman.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 17:21:19 2018 No.10719575 >>10719529 I don't see how that indicates anything about the Earth's shape? Aqtar means regions. It says regions of heavens and earth so clearly that is talking about the universe and not earth

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 17:23:05 2018 No.10719586 >>10719575 Elsewhere it says the Earth is like a carpet spread out. I haven't seen any round carpets. The implication there is that the Earth is flat like a carpet.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 20:14:25 2018 No.10720647 >>10716105 bam PAWNED

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 20:16:51 2018 No.10720660 >>10719586 >>10719575 You idiots know nothing of three dimensional shapes. The implication here is that a diameter NECESSITATES a sphere, ok?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 20:17:49 2018 No.10720667 >>10712572 Well Arabs are arrogantly zealous and hold cultural attitudes hostile to those of the western enlightenment so yes it's that too.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 20:20:00 2018 No.10720682 >>10720667 >inb4 this 7th century mathematician or this Sufi mystic I'm talking about most Arabs, who are in touch with the profound side of Islam as much as the average Christian is in touch with the profound side of Christianity.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 20:24:22 2018 No.10720706 >>10720660 Except that iqtar means regions not diameter you lying inbred larping goat fucking piece of shit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 20:26:26 2018 No.10720717 >>10720706 It's aktar, not iqtar.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 18 20:27:15 2018 No.10720722 >>10720717 It's a qaf, not kaf. You can't even read Arabic letters you fucking moron.

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 20:40:10 2018 No.10720788

>>10720722
You don't understand yourself. It's even so definitively aktar you can look it up online

http://www.speed-light.info/miracles_of_quran/earth.htm

I'll bet you think you're soo cool for learning Arabic just to besmirch the good name of Islam, do some fucking research loser.

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 20:46:48 2018 No.10720823

>>10720788
You can't even tell the difference between the letter qaf and kaf. You can't even read your own holy book. You are a brainwashed larping white boy brainwashed by internet dawaghanda.

It's right there ق

Not ك
Perhaps learn the fucking alphabet before you talking about the miracles of the Arabic language.

Anonymous Sun Feb 18 23:31:23 2018 No.10721656

>>10719016
Let me educate you worthless newfag
>>10719529
>>10719421

This dude is talking about the Quran

>>10718691
This, is me

Note that when I link my own post a (you) appears, this is a semi recent addition to 4chan to deter people using the Anonymity of the site to stage fake discussion for attention. As you can see, only the comment I have claimed responsibility for bears a (you), this means that I am not the guy talking about the Quran as you so childishly accuse.

Now, it is quite clear by the ignorance of your comments and inability to use basic site features without instruction that you are underage. Go back to facebook before your newfaggotry makes you look even more retarded.

Anonymous Mon Feb 19 01:12:23 2018 No.10722059

>>10718691
>Jesus was in no more position to own slaves than a child a house, had he gone on to live the standard issue jewish life of a successful tradesman then he certainly would have.

Again what evidence do you have for Joseph being a buisness owner and not a carpenter who works for others? What are your sources for him having to own slaves because he lived in a society that practiced slavery?

>Carrying all the shit and looking after a newborn baby is fucking hard while also playing refugee

Or just buy a single donkey rather than start an entire caravan.

>Back your shit up, the only solid thing I can see is that the jews had some laws on slave treatment. Nothing I can find suggest they are any less into slave ownership than anyone else.

How many slaver societies mandated the automatic releasing of native slaves after a set period, and not only that but require you to furnish them? (Deuteronomy 15:12-15)

Secondly you just dont see the kind of numbers of slaves by percentage that indicate a mass slave economy like you do in the Roman Empire or Greek states. You write like Jesus was born in Rome.

Anonymous Mon Feb 19 01:42:06 2018 No.10722169 [DELETED]

>>10712467

>I think the entire philosophy of accepting the Quran is indicative of forward-thinking momentum. Think of it this way: you have the most close-minded religion: Judaism. These people believe that the Jews are chosen. Still do. They are deluded. Islam addresses this issue. Moving on. Christianity. These people believe that Jesus Christ came and absolved us of our sins (good), and that he was the last prophet to come. There is no need for anything else.

Why aren't the Jews chosen? It's not like Judaism is a religion that is completely closed off, anybody can join it. What makes muslims more chosen than Jews, Christians, or any other religion?

>It's a basic concept. Nothing too far-reaching. You just have to understand that the idea that religion should be about a being (God) who isn't an interactive concurrent force with humanity is flawed. This is why I enjoy transcendentalism so much as well. Great philosophy, it is.

Jews see God as transcental

>Islam is just compatible with progress in theology. It seems to me Judaism and Christianity are both too stagnant.

Judaism and Christianity are both much more modern thinking. Islam is the one that is so violent that's its caused people to hate multiculturism.

Anonymous Mon Feb 19 03:54:37 2018 No.10722574

>>10722059
>Secondly you just dont see the kind of numbers of slaves by percentage that indicate a mass slave economy like you do in the Roman Empire or Greek states. You write like Jesus was born in Rome.
Based Jesus leading a army of legions while plundering and slaving the savages that surround the eternal city and the endless empire. Deus vult.

>>	Anonymous Mon Feb 19 04:41:46 2018 No.10722644 >>10721656 You are lying.

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/lit/ - Literature