Continental philosophy

[Anonymous No.10703618]

What's the point? If you're just going to baselessly speculate, why call it philosophy?

Analytic philosophy strives to use formal logic and the sciences to come to verifiable conclusions about our world...continental philosophy is what, armchair speculation about feelings?

[Anonymous No.10703622]

>>10703618
>If you're just going to baselessly speculate, why call it philosophy?
I'm glad you're starting to see things my way, anon.

[Anonymous No.10703623]

who /meta-philosopher/ here

[Anonymous No.10703642]

>>10703623
Me

>>10703622
/TradGang/ in the house

[Anonymous No.10703643]

That pic is retarded
Start with the greeks
Im not saying this trying to be smug or anything like that.

[Anonymous No.10703663]

>>10703618
Mane have you tried to, you know, actually read Continental Philosophy?
Read the Derrida Routledge guide or something?

[Anonymous No.10703671]

>>10703618
Analytic philsophy is a mistake.
Pragmatic philsophy is the way.

[Anonymous No.10703687]

>>10703618
Time in a single life is limited. Analytical philosophy is far more useful. Read what you need from it then read about math, science, history, strategy, survival, etc.

Continental philosophy is more of a hobby like reading fantasy.

[Anonymous No.10703786]

>>10703618
>Analytic philosophy strives to use formal logic and the sciences to come to verifiable conclusions about our world

What's the point of that if we have no understanding of our place in the cosmos as a matter of phenomenology?

[Anonymous No.10703796]

>>10703786
Continental philosophy is religion for agnostics, isn't it?

[Anonymous No.10703816]

>>10703796
Traditional religion is for drones and nerds

[Anonymous No.10704600]

>>10703796
Yeah

[Anonymous No.10704602]

>>10703687
nigga shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.10704605]

>continental
Thoreau was nice. At least he promoted science, albeit glumly

[Anonymous No.10704606]

>>10703623
nigger I'm a meta meta philosipher. I see beyond the system that sees beyond the system that calls itself physics and lately I'm even starting to see beyond that

[Anonymous No.10704618]

>Analytic philosophy strives to use formal logic and the sciences to come to verifiable conclusions about our world

The entire preoccupation of continental philosophy is with asking
>What is "logic?"
>What makes it "verifiable?" Who does the verifying? What is verification? What are truth and verisimilitude?
>What grounds the possibility and/or apodeictic certainty of these things?
>What is a "world" and how do "conclusions," "our" conclusions, relate to it?

Analytic philosophers take our natural assumptions about the world and our words for describing it for granted, and then try to build a crystal structure of pure science out of them, without realizing that they are not only irreducibly fuzzy and unsuited for acting as metaphilosophical foundations, but they are also constantly shifting and changing in history.

Analytic philosophy is what you are doing when someone talks about "ideas" without clarifying what they mean by the word. Continental philosophy is what you begin to do when you say, "wait wait wait shouldn't we be clear what we mean by 'idea'? At least about its various, very different historical usages?"

[Anonymous No.10704620]

>>10704606
I'm meta-you. No matter how meta you get I will always be one step above you.

[Anonymous No.10704627]

Why is analytic philosophy the new pseud defense mechanism for every discussion that gets a little bit difficult? They all start from such random assumptions like everyone in the continental tradition. Analytic philosophy shitposters are like the autistic kid who doesnt get the joke.

[Anonymous No.10704628]

>>10704620

[Anonymous No.10704636]

>>10703618
>cont. vs analytic
>dualism
>implying

[Anonymous No.10704637]

>>10704618
This shit is what makes Neil Degrasse Tyson shit talk philosophy.

[Anonymous No.10704640]

>>10704627
I'm also noticing that all analytic discussion online seems to never actually discuss philosophy, just hound on about how they are so much better than the continentals.

[Anonymous No.10704643]

>>10704637
Being a retard that doesn't acknowledge that all of his ideas rely blindly on axioms?

[Anonymous No.10704645]

>>10704637
Do you think that what that anon posted is something you could call a word salad or something like that? It literally couldnt be more basic.
The absolute state of this board.

[Anonymous No.10704646]

>>10703618

>baselessly speculate

On what base are you speculating? Could it perhaps be... An assumption?

[Anonymous No.10704648]

>>10704645
No, I know what it is. It's what people incapable of handling math and science read and talk about to feel smart.

[Anonymous No.10704652]

>>10704648
You need to read some Jacob Klein.

[Anonymous No.10704654]

>>10704640
90% of the fags who act like that have never actually studied analytic philosophy neither continental. They just saw Peterson videos on how "le pomo philosophers are bad because they hate logic! amirite" and now think Hegel is somehow the same as college freshman feminists

[Anonymous No.10704658]

>>10704648
>>10704645
both of you are fucking retarded. It's pretty obvious what anon said. I don't think he's exactly right since some analytic phil clearly has value, but what he said isn't unclear or off base enough to justify your sperging

[Anonymous No.10704660]

>>10704648
>discussing and defining concepts is bad!
Why are you even in the literature board?

[Anonymous No.10704663]

>>10704658
>what he said isn't unclear or off base enough to justify your sperging
Thats what I'm >>10704645 (me) trying to imply
Learn to read

[Anonymous No.10704673]

>>10704618
>>10704654
>>10704645

You guys need to drop the notion that people aren't getting or understanding incredibly simple propositions. It's not about not 'realizing' that analytic philosophy makes assumptions. It's not so difficult to understand that I must think I'm reading word salad. It's not about misunderstanding Hegel because Jordan Peterson.

You people need to stop flattering yourselves. This is not even remotely difficult material. My stated positions are what they are, and you need to stop hallucinating reasons for my positions other than that I hold them legitimately.

[Anonymous No.10704682]

>>10704673
Whats your point? You didnt say anything aside from "dont disagree with me!".

[Anonymous No.10704684]

>>10704673
Nevermind I just realized this is bait. Good job.

[Anonymous No.10704688]

>>10704663
sorry m8 sleep deprivation is a bitch

[Anonymous No.10704714]

>>10704682
How about not presuming that people who don't value continental philosophy are just too stupid to get it? Because that's the near universal refrain of its proponents. It makes sense of course. What else could draw people to fraudulent pseudo-intellectual tripe? Some deep seated need to feel smart without facing the possibility of failure intrinsic in rigorous intellectual pursuits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBgQFrcB8zw

Just listen to this dog shit.

[Anonymous No.10704723]

>>10704714
>How about not presuming that people who don't value analytic philosophy are just too stupid to get it?

[Anonymous No.10704726]

>>10704648
No, I know what it is. It's what people incapable of handling math and science read and talk about to feel smart.

[Anonymous No.10704732]

>>10704637
Tyson is an autistic pseud whose Tweets are an abomination against anyone with an IQ above 50.

[Anonymous No.10704737]

ITT: People take out their sexual and intellectual insecurities on one another, with no hope of release.

[Anonymous No.10704739]

>>10704714
dude can't even write the book on his own because he doesn't speak french, i.e. the language of his subject matter, so he has to enroll a fucking belgian to do his reading for him

[Anonymous No.10704749]

>>10704714
Is not that they are too stupid to get. Even the dumbest people could undertand some of the fundations of the continental tradition if they wanted. What is stupid is dismissing it just because you dont want to ask questions, which is what philosophy essentially is.
>this youtube video just totally DEBUNKED continental philosophy!
Dear god, read a book. You just can't dismiss a whole tradition just because you don't like a few authors who probably haven't even read.
No one is really happy about the linguistic turn of contemporary philosophy at this point. Even Derrida is his lasts years was pointing towards a more conservative point of reference to the whole deal after his crazy years.

[Anonymous No.10704785]

>>10703618
Retards dont understand that what they are calling meta philosophy is actually continental philosophy and what they are calling continental is pre-hegel metaphysics and what they are calling analytic philosophy is just an bunch of idiot anglos who were too lazy to read hegel and got mad becuase nietzsche called them brainlets so they just started their own club that no one cares about where they circle jerk about how they are better than everyone else just because they say so

[Anonymous No.10704789]

I like both Analytic and Continental and I think both should be employed in order to engaging in the world. Analytic helps in certain disciplines (for example, philosophy of maths) more while Continental helps with others (for example, philosophy of literatures). Basically, continental is more helpful in the pursuit of the humanities while analytical in the pursuit of the sciences and STEMS. Both enrich those mutual pursuits though and both have value.

[Anonymous No.10704793]

>>10704789
No no no, we're supposed to be autistically screaming at each other here, you have to leave.

[Anonymous No.10704800]

>>10704749
>Is not that they are too stupid to get.

Not according to basically the majority of its proponents I've encountered when challenged. I know astrophysicists, biologists, people who study complex systems, etc. Guess how many give continental philosophy any thought?

Zero.

The only people I know who do are wannabe sophisticates on the internet who talk and make awful esoteric jokes about Hegel and Derrida all day. In fact that is exactly what I think it is. Impenetrable pseudo-complex esotericism is actually fooling dimwits into thinking they're smart for understanding something completely useless.

[Anonymous No.10704801]

>>10704785
Also
This autist out-autist-ed them in their own game even before they were even a thing and blew them the fuck out while pretty much arriving pretty much at the same conclussions Heidegger (le schizo bad continental anti science guy amirite t. anglos) did
delete thread now

[Anonymous No.10704802]

>>10704789
This golden mean fallacy is horseshit. Continental philosophy dominates philosophy of math and science too. After postpositivism, analytics either flock to continental thought or smuggle it back into analytic thought anyway.

[Anonymous No.10704804]

>>10704800
>I know astrophysicists, biologists, people who study complex systems
neat
link to some papers they've written/co-written?

[Anonymous No.10704805]

>>10704800
Here look at the faggots in this thread making Kant jokes.

>>10704293

They're so inadequate they go online and make awful Kant jokes to signal that they too are smart and have read Kant. I'm not even criticizing Kant here so much as pointing out what I'm seeing every time I see this shit. It's achingly pathetic.

[Anonymous No.10704806]

>>10704805
>achingly pathetic

[Anonymous No.10704808]

>>10704805
Okay so you're case against continental philosophy is that you know scientists who don't consider it and you see people making jokes about it? Is this bait? Please be bait.

[Anonymous No.10704810]

>>10704804
One of them wrote a textbook.

http://www.castaliahouse.com/downloads/astronomy-homeschool-bundle/

I also knew one who discovered a planet but I haven't spoken to him in years.

[Anonymous No.10704812]

>>10704810
>http://www.castaliahouse.com/downloads/astronomy-homeschool-bundle/

b8

[Anonymous No.10704817]

>>10704810
I could also mention public figures like Gad Saad, Nassim Taleb, Lawrence Krauss, I could go on. People who never speak of this stuff unless it's a criticism of the pseudo-intellectual tripe that it is.

[Anonymous No.10704819]

>>10704800
Stay mad. If you don't know anyone who seriously does philosophy in real life and surround yourself with STEM minds that is on you. Besides, I don't like shitty Hegel memes either but they are a pale blue dot to the memeverse anyway.

[Anonymous No.10704821]

>>10704810
>http://www.castaliahouse.com/downloads/astronomy-homeschool-bundle/
>Our current selection of fantasy books consists of Vox Day’s Selenoth novels, including works such as A Throne of Bones and Summa Elvetica: A Casuistry of the Elvish Controversy as well as John C. Wright’s magical One Bright Star to Guide Them.
keknificent

[Anonymous No.10704824]

>>10704819
>surround yourself with STEM minds

Yeah, I surround myself with people who actually have to produce which requires facing failure. Actual skin the game. No room for ambiguity to hide their warts and play smart online.

[Anonymous No.10704825]

>>10704817
>Lawrence Krauss

[Anonymous No.10704829]

>>10704817
>Gad Saad, Nassim Taleb, Lawrence Krauss,
really weak thinkers, to be perfectly honest, with little comprehension of anything outside of their respective fields (and even then it can be iffy). anytime they speak up on issues they are not experts in they expose themselves as fundamentally ignorant

[Anonymous No.10704830]

>>10704825
I know man, those physicists who have to be rigorous instead of relying on peer approval.

[Anonymous No.10704831]

>>10704817
>>10704824

[Anonymous No.10704833]

>>10704800
Ok I see you are just replying to the first sentence in my post while basing yours in autistic anecdotes
>I know astrophysicists, biologists, people who study complex systems, etc. Guess how many give continental philosophy any thought?
>zero
And this is something good or proves philosophy is bad because...?
Anyways, since works under philosophical assumptions that are linked to every other aspect of human existence, so those guys are depriving themselves to even understand what they are doing, why are they doing it and how what they are doing affects the world around them. They are just collecting data. Thats great, but you cant just ignore everything else if you want to interact with the world.

[Anonymous No.10704837]

>>10704829
>really weak thinkers, to be perfectly honest

Taleb is anything but a 'weak thinker'. He's incredibly intelligent.

[Anonymous No.10704838]

>>10704829
b8ed

[Anonymous No.10704839]

>>10704805
>stop making jokes i dont understand
Woah further proof continental philosophy is just wrong and analytics are fucking superior good job

[Anonymous No.10704842]

>>10704833
The relation of complex systems, emergent properties and genetics, IQ and so forth are going to do more for political philosophy in the future than garbled nonsense.

[Anonymous No.10704845]

>>10704839
More of that 'they just don't understand' conceit. It's funny how reliably unoriginal you people are.

[Anonymous No.10704846]

>>10704842
>because i say so
Epic

[Anonymous No.10704847]

>>10704837
no he isn't, he's just numerate and you are not, so he's capable of bedazzling you with 'esoteric' 'data' and formulae
it's just public image building
he is selling his brand, which is himself
just another professional expert
>>10704838
ye probably

[Anonymous No.10704850]

>>10704842
link to papers or books you've read that explore these topics, please

[Anonymous No.10704851]

>>10704845
Ok keep collecting data without knowing why is that a good thing thats really original

[Anonymous No.10704853]

>>10704847
I'm not 'numerate' so he has me fooled?

https://twitter.com/EricRWeinstein

So this mathematician who is friends with him must be in the same boat.

About what I'd expect from the illiterates on this board.

[Anonymous No.10704855]

>>10703618
>tfw you realize that modern math is platonic

[Anonymous No.10704857]

>>10704850
Taleb's books are good. Yaneer bar-Yam has explored populations and demographics as well, look him up.

For genetics I suggest Steve Hsu.

http://infoproc.blogspot.com

Anyway I'm out. I've had enough of the cookie cutter responses.

[Anonymous No.10704862]

>>10704853
https://www.google.com/search?q=numeracy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-ab
i don't know why you're using scare quotes around a word that has a definite meaning.
>i have a black friend therefore i'm not racist
hm

[Anonymous No.10704866]

>>10704857
you're getting as good as you're giving desu

[Anonymous No.10704868]

>>10704853
>twitter
Epic source
Check this one out!
https://twitter.com/billnye

[Anonymous No.10704873]

>>10704857
C'ya in reddit

[Anonymous No.10704877]

>>10704857
Keep fighting the good fight bro, I Fucking Love Science too.

[Anonymous No.10704888]

>>10704737
>and im fucking superior

[Anonymous No.10704893]

>>10703618
analytic comes first, thats pleb tier. Then comes continental. Then comes zen.
everything has a reason and purpose. Gain wisdom, then apply it. Whats the point of reason, if you cant express your lessons learned while advancing yourself and others? And once you know and think, its okay to feel.

[Anonymous No.10704895]

>>10704893
El autismo.. .

[Anonymous No.10704908]

>>10704888
Yup.

[Anonymous No.10705002]

>>10704893

[Anonymous No.10705009]

>>10704802
It really amazes me how full of themselves continetals and the people fond of that tradition are. Is the only place these books can be found up your own ass?

[Anonymous No.10705049]

>>10703618
Was analytic philosophy the most successful prank in history? How many people actually thought it could be a useful approach to thinking?

[Anonymous No.10705059]

>>10705049
Yes, and deconstruction and schizoanalysis were great contributions to human thought and not lame exercises in mental masturbation or anyhting like that.

[Anonymous No.10705066]

>He still hasn't accepted the Hermetic Principles

[Anonymous No.10705068]

>>10704837
>>10704817
>>10704749
>>10704714
>>10704673
>>10704857
I actually encourage taking this bait, because I want to see what else you come up with.

[Anonymous No.10705074]

>>10704606
Man im a post-meta meta philosopher. I've transcended the proccess of metaization, but there is literally not a single concrete idea in my head, while also encompassing all philosophy, making me incriticizeably all-right.

[Anonymous No.10705149]

>>10703618
>What's the point? If you're just going to baselessly speculate, why call it philosophy?
You tell me. What do you think philosophy is? I'm 100% sure it's incorrect since you're asking this question.

[Anonymous No.10705154]

Continental? Analytic? I got Sargon of Akkad to tell me what's up.

[Anonymous No.10705157]

>>10703618
this board is attracting more teens and redditors by the day

[Anonymous No.10705321]

>>10703618
>>Strives to use formal logic

Found your problem. Continental is also shit. The entire world caught autism after the 50's.

[Anonymous No.10705337]

>>10705059
Yes they are, in their proper places, just like science is in its proper place.

WHERES YOURE SCIEMCE GOD NOW JESSY!?

[Anonymous No.10706059]

>>10703671
implying pragmatic philosophy is philospy

[Anonymous No.10706089]

>>10703618
Analytic philosophy was born out of people who were too lazy to read Hegel. They've been stuck in the "dood what do you mean with gnosology? facts are facts lool" phase until very recently. The fact that all analytic drones employ the category of "useful" to disparage continental philosophy reveals how much far deep their heads are in their asses (it also isn't true, analphil is 99% pointless arguing over semantics).

[Anonymous No.10706138]

>>10706089
Continetnals try to justify their discipline by saying its more useful. You'd be delusional to think there's anything else to it.

[Anonymous No.10706142]

>If you're just going to baselessly speculate, why call it philosophy?

Why analytics such pseuds? There's no speculation in continental philosophy.

>Analytic philosophy strives to use formal logic

Yes, but what they consider logic is anything they do like and what's not logic is anything they don't like. Its heavily tainted by their circlejerk and it leads them to simplistic or fallacious arguments. If Alan Turing was alive today making the case for digital intelligence, they'd just smugly smirk and say "heh, well consciousness can't be objectively proven anyway, therefore it not worth caring about", not realizing that it absolutely is because if AI can actually feel pain then we'd committing horrors we would never tolerate on ourselves without realizing it.

[Anonymous No.10706333]

>>10706138
Because it is, it has affected and will continue to affect humanities and politics
If by useful you mean "um, sweetie, can it make cars tho" then you are really beyond salvation.

[Anonymous No.10706355]

>>10706333
Doesn't really matter. No form of philosophy can justify its existence without appealing to utility in some way. Continentals are the only ones delusional enough to claim otherwise.

[Anonymous No.10706405]

>>10706355
Justify its existence to who?
Philosophy has always been useless. Did the people who got men to the moon care about Brainlet Russell's epic rebuttal to continentals? No.

[Anonymous No.10706422]

>>10706405
To themselves or anyone who questions its worth.

[Anonymous No.10708030]

>>10703618
What a stupid picture. Are you telling me Parfit's Reasons and Persons isn't concerned with the human condition? Or that Kripke and Putnam don't make use of intution to reach speculative conclusions about the a-priori structure of reality. Has anybody here even read analytic philosophy?

[Anonymous No.10708056]

>>10704606
that's post-meta philosophy

[Anonymous No.10709342]

>>10703618
clarify what we know x criticize what we "know"

[Anonymous No.10709352]

>>10704606
Enlighten us, o wise one

[Anonymous No.10709562]

>>10704637
>NDT shit talks philosophy because he can't into critical thinking
I mean you're right but I don't think you wanted to be

[Anonymous No.10709569]

>>10704673
The more I read this the more I realize it's 10/10 bait. Should be pasta

[Anonymous No.10709590]

>>10706138
That's because we live in the angloamerican, post-cartesian zeitgeist where fucking knowledge has to be "useful" in order to exist. Anyway, analyticucks will arrive at same conclusions of continentals in a couple of centuries.

[Anonymous No.10709597]

>>10709590
I dont understand how they dont realize it

[Anonymous No.10709603]

>>10704789 tries to be reasonable, but suddenly >>10704802 a raging un-tenured continental appears

[Anonymous No.10709608]

>>10706333
>Because it is, it has affected and will continue to affect humanities and politics
>this has been net positive
>influential means it's good

[Anonymous No.10709639]

>>10704618
Good post, I learned something, thanks anon

[Anonymous No.10709670]

>>10704618
>lol typical continental fag interpretation of analytic philosophy

[Anonymous No.10709680]

>>10704802
Oh wow ...

[Anonymous No.10709689]

>>10704837
You best be jesting, mein Freund.

[Anonymous No.10709710]

>>10703618
everything in "analytic" in your retarded american scribbling is also part of "continental". gtfo

[Anonymous No.10709716]

>>10709603
he's right and he's raging. deal with it, i suppose.

[Anonymous No.10709760]

>>10703618
>that pic

As if Continentals don't use logic, nor Analytics intuition. Fucking repugnant. Demonstrates that the "coarsest" distinctions are often completely worthless.

[Anonymous No.10709800]

>>10709716
Honestly, he seems ignorant of both traditions.

[Anonymous No.10710021]

>>10704618
>complains about Analytic word usage not being clear
>complains about assuming shit
>does not define terms
>assumes that people will understand what he/she writes

Thus the sorry state of continental philosophy is revealed. They complain about things that they do themselves.

[Anonymous No.10710040]

>thinking that formalising and dissecting language will bring you closer to making truth statements about the world
lol

[Anonymous No.10710064]

>>10709800
>analytic
>tradition
Lol!

[Anonymous No.10710077]

>>10703618
>If you're just going to philosophize how it is philosophy?

[Anonymous No.10710130]

The funny thing is that after decades of autism they're reaching the same point as continentals. Read Brandom and Rorty. Ultra-specialised discussions on philosophy of language and semantics of meaning are out of fashion, speculative metaphysics has been back for a while, analytic phil has very limited relation to formal logic nowadays. The best works in the 20th century have been those which don't strictly fall into either tradition and it will remain that way, nobody will care about these provincial antagonisms in the future. I imagine most of oldschool analytic stuff will be condensed into a few essays for a philosophy curriculum before they got into more relevant stuff. These movements have lasted very briefly, just read something like Ayer's Language, Truth & Logic nowadays and see how dated and naive it feels.

[Anonymous No.10710185]

>>10710130
But Brandom and Rorty are closer to the pragmatists and late Witty than Continentals?

[Anonymous No.10710200]

>>10710185
>anti-foundationalism
>consciousness of history
>return to a grander vision for philosophy
It's pretty damn continental-friendly to my eyes. I guess they're influenced by pragmatists but Rorty's work at least seems to me very different from what dudes like Peirce were doing.

[Anonymous No.10710219]

>>10710185
Not that guy but the pragmatists, that is the current popular reading of them, are mainly popular among guess who - Germans who grew up on Heidegger and Gadamer, like Habermas (big pragmatism fan), Apel, Tugendhat, etc. That's where the real revival in pragmatism comes from, often combined with Habermas-esque communicative rationality, like the "social ontology" Hegelians (Pinkard, Brandom, etc) who are big these days, that German postwar tradition that was very much in the mindset of "Heideggerian hermeneutic immanence plus some form of concern for rationality/subject-centric justification." (You can see this in Habermas' dislike of Gadamer's position in their debate.) Also Rorty is explicitly continental/Heideggerian and Wittgensteinian, that's his entire intellectual pedigree.

The dude you're replying to is substantially correct. I am the last person to say an avenue of thought wasn't worthwhile, that it didn't have at least something to contribute, but analytic philosophy comes as close as anything I've ever seen to being truly useless. All of the interesting ones are interesting by virtue of breaking away from it, like Sellars and Wittgenstein. Wittgenstein is known for being a mirror image of Heidegger, even a better version of Heidegger in some ways. Jamesian pragmatism is so proto-phenomenological that Husserl himself singled it out as basically identical to his own project.

[Anonymous No.10710508]

>>10709760
>As if Continentals don't use logic
They opted for psychoanalysis instead.

[Anonymous No.10712086]

>>10706059
>Implying pragmatic philsophy isn't the least autistic contemporary school.

[Anonymous No.10712091]

>Analytic philosophy strives to use formal logic and the sciences to come to verifiable conclusions about our world...

1. no it doesn't
2. striving for something and having any chance of succeeding are two different animals

[Anonymous No.10712103]

>>10710219
>that it didn't have at least something to contribute, but analytic philosophy comes as close as anything I've ever seen to being truly useless.
The lack of rigor in continental philosophy has been repeatedly betrayed by the extreme suffering caused by each attempt to implement its ideas. It's worse than useless.

[Anonymous No.10712129]

>>10703618
What if I prefer intuition, analysis, logic, and literature?

[Anonymous No.10712139]

>>10703687
underage post