/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10696814]

I want to be a communist but I have a hard time accepting their ideology.

[Anonymous No.10696825]

>>10696814

You don't want workers to own the means of production in a stateless society?

[Anonymous No.10696840]

>>10696825
No. I think they should be exploited for financial gain to be honest, but I still want to be a communist.

[Anonymous No.10696843]

>>10696840

Mein Gott.

[Anonymous No.10696849]

>>10696840
Whu do you think yourself superior to a worker? Do you own a businees and feel guilty?

[Anonymous No.10696858]

>>10696849
No I don't feel guilt. I think if workers aren't smart enough to advance through the ranks using whatever it takes (manipulation, lying, cheating) they deserve to be exploited. But still, I know that I want to be a communist.

[Anonymous No.10696862]

>>10696858

You just seem like a liberal. Enjoy the rope.

[Anonymous No.10696869]

>>10696840
Then, it's impossible sorry. When the revolution come, you'll be killed by a bolchevik

[Anonymous No.10696873]

>>10696858
Daily reminder that you must be over 18 to post

[Anonymous No.10696877]

>>10696840
Just adopt the cool color scheme and pretend.

[Anonymous No.10696878]

>>10696873
Shit really? My 4chan doesn't have an age detector. Why is it disabled?? Do I have to submit my driver's license somewhere?

[Anonymous No.10696879]

have you thought of being a card carrying wanker. you seem to have a natural disposition.

this board is utterly pathetic

[Anonymous No.10696885]

>I want to be a communist but I don't agree with anything communists say
... Okay? Are you attracted to the aesthetics or something?
Become a social democrat and stop pretending. A sincere socdem is surely better than pretending to be a commie. You can start with reformists like Bernstein.

[Anonymous No.10696886]

>>10696879
>card carrying wanker

What does that mean? I'm not British. Please elaborate.

[Anonymous No.10696894]

>>10696885
Social democratism is just despicable. I do not want to be associated with any form of that disgusting ideology. I want to be communist. It seems like a lot of the intellectual writers are communist, and I want people to identify me with that intellectual group.

[Anonymous No.10696934]

>>10696894
Okay then, try reading Bukharin or market socialism
In marksoc the workers have to collectively exploit themselves to remain competitive on the market, that should satisfy you.

[Anonymous No.10697061]

>>10696894

Or better yet just shoot yourself.

[Anonymous No.10697064]

>>10696814

[Anonymous No.10697071]

>>10697061
But only fascists do that.

[Anonymous No.10697080]

>>10696840
Commence with the Chinese.

[Anonymous No.10697084]

>>10696934
>collectively exploit themselves to remain competitive on the market

That makes zero fucking sense.

If capitalists exploit workers by reaping the fruits of their labors, then mark socialists are not exploited since they are not exploited since they reap the fruit of their own labor.

[Anonymous No.10697086]

>>10696858
>No I don't feel guilt. I think if workers aren't smart enough to advance through the ranks using whatever it takes
That is literally what revolution is. Whatever it takes includes killing the bourgeoisie.

[Anonymous No.10697094]

>>10697086
What if killing people makes you a shit person (it does).

What then?

[Anonymous No.10697111]

>>10697086
>Workers are so dumb that they have to kill people to feel better
They deserve to be exploited, you're not helping the argument against OP

[Anonymous No.10697155]

>>10697094
>>10697111
>oh it's fine to oppress people in every way possible but you can't use violence against donnie draper that would be cheating t. ayn rand

bougie spooks

[Anonymous No.10697235]

>>10696814
>I want to be a communist but I have a hard time accepting their ideology (communism)

[Anonymous No.10698250]

What if you agree with Marxists with everything except social policing of behavior and the act of free expression? I don't consider thought or speech to be "oppressive" nor do I think power works the way they think it works.

[Anonymous No.10698255]

>>10698250
then you should stop getting all your information about marxism from Pordan Jeterson

[Anonymous No.10698260]

>>10697094
And lying, cheating and stealing don't?

[Anonymous No.10698263]

>>10696840
So be a bolshevist, kek

[SAGE No.10698302]

>>10696814
Hey cunt
this is the
>BOOK
>O
>A
>R
>D

[Anonymous No.10698586]

>>10696814
Starve to death them

[Anonymous No.10698611]

Don't we all....

[Anonymous No.10698613]

>>10696858
>No I don't feel guilt. I think if workers aren't smart enough to advance through the ranks using whatever it takes (manipulation, lying, cheating) they deserve to be exploited.
Seems like you have a bad case of being a psychopath.

[Anonymous No.10698789]

Why can't political movements have an aesthetic anymore lads? Can I bring back Eugene V. Debs-style leftism and save it from the idpol nonsense it's become?

[Anonymous No.10698819]

delete this thread

[Anonymous No.10698825]

>>10697084
>they are not exploited since they reap the fruit of their own labor.
they are competing in a market so their surplus value would be invested into the company so they're exploiting themselves

[Anonymous No.10698829]

>>10696814

>I want to be a communist but I have a hard time accepting their ideology.

I don't know what the hell the rest of the people in this thread are doing, but you would probably totally identify with Zizek

[Anonymous No.10698835]

>>10696814
Off to the gulag with you.

[Anonymous No.10698837]

>>10696814
The world cannot be reduced to economics simply because economics is always present. Sure, class-structure is intimately tied to economics, but it also has a social, cultural, religious, psychological and even sexual component that the Marxists don't care about (except critical theorists, but that's because they managed to transcend the limits of orthodox Marxism). Nothing is reducible to economics. The communists are wrong. Marx was a humanist, move on please.

[Anonymous No.10698938]

>>10696814
>all these unironic leftists itt
/lit/ is a post-left reactionary board please leave
>>10696840
you sound like a good general secretary

[Anonymous No.10698941]

>>10696840
American_Democratic_Party.jpg

[Anonymous No.10698947]

>>10698941
kek

[Anonymous No.10698950]

>>10696814
Then you dont want to be a commi stoopid

[Anonymous No.10699031]

>>10698941
This so hard.

[Anonymous No.10699093]

>this thread

will be hilarious when the civil war in america happens und bubba ray and cletus gun you down at starbucks

[Anonymous No.10699533]

>>10699093
I hate starbucks. Does that mean I can't has commie?

[Anonymous No.10699572]

>>10696814
>I want to be a communist

Kill yourself immediately

[Anonymous No.10699578]

>>10696814
Shouldn't it be the other way around? Why do you want to affiliate to a political identity you don't agree with?

[Anonymous No.10699627]

>>10698302
Let's agree to not complain about that as long as we don't have a functioning politics board

[Anonymous No.10699637]

>>10696840
Hi Stalin

[Anonymous No.10699722]

It's easier to resent the smelly underclass than it is the exploitive, callous, and narcissistic over-class; but the ones I hate most of all are the intellectual bourgeoisie for persistently attempting to subvert their rich patrons' social contract, who carved out a sheltered niche just for them; a betrayal based solely upon simultaneously underestimating the underclass and being jealous of Chad

[BEN No.10699939]

>>10698613
You mean a bad case of being underage

[Anonymous No.10700087]

>>10698255
I've been reading theory and primary sources and internet Marxists seem more obsessed with suppressing anything or anyone that is deemed "problematic" or "bourgeois," and this criteria seems to be a shifting goalpost for whatever a minority finds offensive or what some social-conservative/ML finds to be discomforting. Bonus points if they call you an "imperialist" despite being a desiring prole.

I mainly agree with the economic analysis and associated theory, but I can't stand a victim complex.

[Anonymous No.10700097]

>>10698789
They'll just call you a "class reductionist" and shut down any sort of discourse and discredit you.

[Anonymous No.10700214]

>>10700087
>internet Marxists seem more obsessed with suppressing anything or anyone that is deemed "problematic" or "bourgeois,"
Go to a proper leftist forum instead of Reddit or Tumblr.

[Anonymous No.10700215]

>>10700214
Can you tell an interested anon where some of those might be? Just /leftypol/?

[Anonymous No.10700235]

>>10696840
Have you tried Socialism with Chinese Characteristics?

[Anonymous No.10700247]

>>10696858
You sound like you would be an excellent communist to be honest.

[Anonymous No.10700327]

>>10700215
I don't want the wave of /pol/ shitposting that might come from direct mentions but you can find most using /leftypol/ as a starting point.

[Anonymous No.10700328]

>>10696840
Perestroika/ Glasnost era USSR and modern China and Laos sound perfect for you.

[Anonymous No.10700340]

Looks like we've got some work to do again, fellas.

[Anonymous No.10700407]

>>10696858
Capitalism isn't a meritocracy, not even if you consider merit to solely be 'manipulation, lying, cheating', fuck off.

[Anonymous No.10700427]

>>10696814
You should be a National Socialist then

[Anonymous No.10701074]

>>10700215
/marx/ is unironically the best place to talk about theory. Ismail and a few other comrades have apparently read fucking everything.

[Anonymous No.10701107]

I just can’t get around the whole “everybody is equal”. Fuck that. No. Maybe BORN but certainly not in the end. Not everyone deserves to be treated the same, that’s fucking nonsense

[Anonymous No.10701128]

>>10701107
I think you're confusing progressives with communists. One is of the bourgeoisie, the other is a worker.

[Anonymous No.10701141]

>i want to be a member of a group based on an ideology
>i dont like the ideology

[Anonymous No.10701756]

>>10700407
I don't think he ever said anything about merit. Learn to read, brother.

[Anonymous No.10701776]

>>10696825
>stateless society
Wew lad

[Anonymous No.10701790]

>>10698829
Or Trosky

[Anonymous No.10701822]

>>10699722
This tbqh. French revolution was fueled by the bourgeoise as an attack on the aristocracy.

[Anonymous No.10701827]

>>10701822
Most revolutions in history are fueled by the bourgeoise.

[Anonymous No.10701828]

>>10696840
>but I still want to be a communist
Why are you obsessing over labels? Take the bits you like, discard the bits you don't and move on. Make your own worldview.

[Anonymous No.10701950]

>>10701828
Ok Nietzche relax.

[Anonymous No.10701953]

>>10701950
I'm flattered.

[Anonymous No.10701966]

>>10696814
>I want to be a communist
why?

[Anonymous No.10701973]

>>10696840
kys

[Anonymous No.10701993]

>>10700214
Thanks, anon. I've been arguing with too many people on Left Twitter.
I'm just concerned that even if I get fully into it, these overly-vocal people are going to control the discourse and make me feel alienated as a result.

[Anonymous No.10702006]

>>10696840

You're a post revolutionary communist. Congratulations, you get to survive the purge of all the useful idiots who thought we were trying to build an egalitarian utopia.

[Anonymous No.10702008]

>>10701993
you want us to come with you?
coddle your balls while you post?

[Anonymous No.10702187]

>>10696858
>wants to feel superior
>doesn't want to play by rules designed to push the best minds to the top

[Anonymous No.10702198]

>>10696840
wait a sec
r u tryin to confuse us again?

[Anonymous No.10702385]

>>10702008
Nah, I was just looking for insight outside of the echo chamber. Thanks for the offer, anon.

[Anonymous No.10702393]

>I want to be a retard
Just lobotomize yourself.

Socialism doesn't work.

[Anonymous No.10702455]

>>10696814
>I want to be a communist but disagree with communists
Just accept that capitalism is the best system. Any system that takes human faults and turns them for the good of other people (in capitalism's case greed) is a great system.
>>10696858
>I don't feel guilty
Never mind. You'll be a great commie.

[Anonymous No.10702464]

>>10702393
>socialism is the same as communism

Wanna know how I know you're American?

[Anonymous No.10702472]

>>10701776
Seems you haven't read Marx.

[Anonymous No.10702483]

>>10702464
Socialism's logical conclusion is communism and is thus lumped in to the term "communism". The widening of the term communism by the communists has also helped this by taking a large majority of socialist principles.
Not to mention the public's perception of socialism.

[Anonymous No.10702504]

>>10702455

t. classcucked Amerifat

[Anonymous No.10702538]

>>10702504
>t. communist that doesn't understand
I can't be bothered listing off everything about economics. I began but I quickly ran out of character.

[Anonymous No.10702548]

>>10702538

t. classcucked capitalist-supporting Americuck

>be American
>get exploited

[Anonymous No.10702668]

>>10702548
>Be communist
>Have great idea to make a society free of anything good in life
>Suddenly someone gets bored and makes a business
>You take over and fix the problem
>End up creating 50 years of famine and kill millions in gulags
>Try again
>And again
>And again...

[Anonymous No.10702694]

>>10702464
Socialism is the earliest stage of communism, defined by public ownership of property, renumeration according to work and planned production to achieve social aims.

[Anonymous No.10702745]

https://gowans.wordpress.com/2012/12/21/do-publicly-owned-planned-economies-work/

If you want to start educating yourself, read the above article and peruse cited sources like Szymanski, they will give you the basics of how the USSR economy functioned, what it managed to achieve, why it was dismantled etc.
Most arguments about communism revolve around utterly irrelevant, non-material bullshit, and people dont know the first thing about socialist history. Talking about philosophy won't turn you into a communist, facts might.

[Anonymous No.10702773]

>>10702745
>Communism
>Anything even remotely connected to education
Planned economies have been proven not to work. See the USSR and other communist but not communist countries.

[Anonymous No.10702776]

>>10702694
>renumeration

[Anonymous No.10702802]

>>10702773
Wrong. They have proven to work even better than free market societies. A "failed" system doesn't become the main threat to western capitalism and source of hysteria for decades. The USSR economy fell apart precisely because of introducing badly thought-out market mechanisms and "liberalisation".

[Anonymous No.10702881]

>>10696814

you must have at least half a brain then

[Anonymous No.10702911]

>>10702802
> They have proven to work even better than free market societies.

being this fucking stupid...

[Anonymous No.10703279]

>communism
>ideology

[Anonymous No.10703287]

>>10696814
/lit/ is for the discussion of literature, specifically books (fiction & non-fiction), short stories, poetry, creative writing, etc. If you want to discuss history, religion, or the humanities, go to /his/. If you want to discuss politics, go to /pol/. Philosophical discussion can go on either /lit/ or /his/, but ideally those discussions of philosophy that take place on /lit/ should be based around specific philosophical works to which posters can refer.

Are there any actual mods on lit anymore? Why are political threads half the fucking catalogue when they're supposed to be banned?

[Anonymous No.10703311]

>>10703287
>the manchurian mods

[Anonymous No.10703358]

>>10703287

4chan has always had light moderation so piss off and stop trying to turn this place into Reddit. If you narrow the range of acceptable topics too much we lose the ability to approach these tangibly related topics with a literary horizon. The people on this board see things differently than the people on /his/ or /pol/ and it's worth preserving this unique diversity of thought that can come only from allowing the technically off topic threads.

[Anonymous No.10703391]

>>10703358
The 'unique diversity' of lit has been destroyed by cross-posters, that have turned this board into a carbon copy of the rest of 4chan. The only thing that prevented this from happening earlier is that the user base of lit used to shout down and ridicule posters that hadn't lurked long enough to absorb the board culture. We're deep into Eternal September, and the number of idiots posting political threads has overwhelmed any legitimate discussion of literature. I love going to a thread about philosophy and seeing nothing but political shit-posting and Peterson faggotry.

[Anonymous No.10703399]

>>10703287
The mods left this shithole board a long time ago, and I suggest you do too. Come join us on 8 chan.

[Anonymous No.10703418]

>>10696840
Are you American? You would fit in with the democrat party.

[Anonymous No.10703426]

itt: retarded marxists get effortlessly trolled

[Anonymous No.10703450]

>>10703391

This place is hardly being overrun when a typical thread lasts for days. Nobody is stopping you from making a thread and talking about whatever you want to talk about. Stop whining.

I despise this attitude where every type of discussion needs to fit neatly into a little box and any deviation needs to be removed. It's obnoxious because the only way it would actually happen is if moderation becomes so heavy that every other thread starts getting deleted for being off topic. That's not the type of environment that inspires fun or creativity. There has to be some freedom of discussion. Like I said, if you want to talk about the Great Gatsby for the hundredth time then have at it. There's nothing stopping you.

[Anonymous No.10703473]

>>10703358
THERE IS NOTHING NEW OR INSIGHTFUL IN THIS THREAD. You're literally just jacking each other off and getting a rush out of your passive aggressive little arguments.

[Anonymous No.10703475]

>>10703450
>I despise this attitude where every type of discussion needs to fit neatly into a little box and any deviation needs to be removed. It's obnoxious because the only way it would actually happen is if moderation becomes so heavy that every other thread starts getting deleted for being off topic. That's not the type of environment that inspires fun or creativity. There has to be some freedom of discussion. Like I said, if you want to talk about the Great Gatsby for the hundredth time then have at it. There's nothing stopping you.

[Anonymous No.10703485]

>>10703473

Why does everything have to be insightful? Just have fun.

[Anonymous No.10703497]

>>10703485
I come to a literature board to talk about literature. If you're not going to talk about literature here it better be insightful, otherwise you're just shitting up the board.

>inb4 it's 4chan it's all shit hurrdurr

[Anonymous No.10703504]

>>10703497

Then go talk about literature. You're not even following your own standards of behavior.

[Anonymous No.10703511]

>>10701107
The idea that people are born equal is also retarded. Your genes influence everything from intelligence, mental health, creativity, physical ability, attractiveness and so much more. Equality is a lie, and only important in the application of law.