/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10674650]

Is the Nobel Prize of Literature still relevant?
I mean, they didn't award the prize to some great writers like:

>Franz Kafka
>James Joyce
>Virginia Woolf
>Jorge Luis Borges
>Fernando Pessoa
>Liev Tolstoi
>Marcel Proust

And I'll add some writers of my country that should have won the Nobel too.
>Jorge Amado
>Carlos Drummond de Andrade
>Ferreira Gullar

After all this controversies, this prize is still important today or it's just some marketing stuff? When some writer win the Nobel, his works are publish in various language with the seal "Winner of the Nobel Prize in Literature of 2018".

[Anonymous No.10674661]

>>10674650
No, jews SJW cultural marxist white genocide soy subversion leftist communist vegan continental derrida cuck socialist liberal

[Anonymous No.10674664]

>>10674661
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.10674668]

>>10674650
Toni Morrison and Bob Dylan have been awarded novel prizes. Let that sink in.

[Anonymous No.10674689]

>>10674650
Any prize committee overlooking some authors is to be expected simply because some may not be relevant at the time
And half of the people on that list only got published after dying

Also, fuck off seu retardado
Brazilian literature is marginally decent, at best
Fucking 12 year old macaco
Sage

[Anonymous No.10674694]

>>10674689
I know that it's decent seu animal. But we should have won a Nobel.

[Anonymous No.10674755]

>>10674694
No "we" shouldn't have, imbecil
I'm saying Brazilian literature is, AT ITS BEST, decent. The writers you posted aren't even that.
Besides, no one "deserves" a Nobel. The prize simply goes out to writers who are considered relevant to world literature. Not whomever your professor from Ensino Fundamental told you last week "deserved" one

Tira esse pau do seu cu e vai ler alguma coisa relevante, pivete. Veja se você consegue se desiludir, pelo menos um pouqinho
Sage

[Anonymous No.10674812]

>>10674650
There's an overrepresentation of American authors in the nobel laureates.

The Swedish academy has political reasons for thier winners.

[Anonymous No.10674813]

>>10674755
>Aren't even that
What do you consider literature seu chupa rola?
Quais escritores você gosta então?
São um dos maiores nomes, da nossa literatura, não há como negar.
O Nobel já deixou a muito tempo de ser um prêmio para escritores que são "relevantes para o mundo literário".
Saia desse mundo em preto e branco, Nobel é muito mais político do que você imagina, o arrombado.

[Anonymous No.10674840]

>>10674668
Let what sink in? I couldn't care less about the Nobel prize, but saying Dylan's lyrics are not literature is fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.10674951]

>>10674813
Brazilian literature is 90% monodimensional, edgy, politically forced garbage. There's no depth. There's no perspective on human nature, no ponderation, no analysis and self reflection. It's mostly guys getting mad at elites and saying poor people are opressed. Whooptie fucking doo, shower them with Nobels.
Try reading Melville, Hesse or Dostoyevski and go back to measure them against the authors you posted, colega. It's not even close. These are authors who genuinely try to perceive themselves and others as anything else than charicatures. Shit, try Houellebec or Saramago. Both of them aren't legendary and both try to actually reach insights about themselves and their societies which isn't reducible to "rich people are bad!!!1!" and have actual aesthetic perpectives.
I'm not saying Brazilian literature is all shit. Guimarães Rosa, José de Alencar, Monteiro Lobato and Plínio Salgado are genuinely good. Great, when lightning strikes twice. But they simply didn't have any real impact outside of their limited cultural sphere.

And nowhere did I deny that the Committee let's politics get in their way sometime. But it's certainly not as huge of an issue as you seem to pretend. What would they be trying to achieve? To promote 70s musicians as influential contemporary artists in order to...? Corrupt the world with outdated Americana through their influence in a dying artistic medium? What are you trying to imply?

[Anonymous No.10674959]

>virginia woolf
lol you sound like a clown

[Anonymous No.10674978]

>>10674959
she a women she inferior

[Anonymous No.10674980]

>>10674951
Okay, I see your point, sorry for those rude words up there.
Yeah, I agree with you, outside of our country, our literature is irrelevant, even Machado de Assis, it's nothing compared to the popularity of Kafka for example.
The thing that you said about the themes that our literature deals, I agree too. It's too insular, a nacionalist thing I guess. It's not universal themes. Maybe Clarice Lispector is an exception? I don't know. That's the truth, outside of Brazil, it doesn't have any impact.

[Anonymous No.10674995]

>>10674951
Is "colega" bro in Brazilian Portuguese? We use that in Spain too.

[Anonymous No.10675000]

>>10674995
Yep it is.
Nice!

[Anonymous No.10675009]

>>10674650
Caralho eu vi 'writers from my country that should have gotten it' no catalogo e sabia que era br.
Guimarães Rosa merecia um. Sipá c.d.a.
É isso.

[Anonymous No.10675018]

>>10674951
>comparing Josê de Alencar and Guimaraes Rosa
GOD SMITE ME DOWN THIS VERY INSTANT BECAUSE I CAN'T STAND THIS WORLD ANYMORE.

[Anonymous No.10675412]

>>10674978
this but unironically

[Anonymous No.10675441]

>>10674755
imbecil is such a pretty word

[Anonymous No.10675446]

>>10674650
>Still
>Implying it was ever relevant
OP you're a retard.
I'd recommend everyone to go on the winner list and check out how many writers you know. Out of the first 20 writers around 17 (iirc) have basically achieved damnatio memoriae status.

[Anonymous No.10675457]

>>10674755
Brazil probably has some good writers lol
And fuck "relevance"

[Anonymous No.10675458]

>>10674650
Kafka's works were published posthumously

[Anonymous No.10675462]

>>10674650
Nobody in their right mind would even consider giving Joyce a Nobel

[Anonymous No.10675485]

>>10675462
It's true, his books were single-handedly responsible for every war that came after they were published

[Anonymous No.10675512]

>>10674661
pretty much my thoughts too

[Anonymous No.10675698]

>>10675018
Alencar is the best for a e s t h e t i c s
Rosa is GOAT narrative
What are you on about, nigga?

[Anonymous No.10675714]

>>10674980
It's a shame, really. Brazil has an interesting historical and cultural position. But we're too caught up in narratives and ideology to actually have any real good literature

[Anonymous No.10676593]

>>10674840
Lyrics require instrumental accompaniment. Give him all the Grammys but it's not literature.

[Anonymous No.10676607]

>>10674668
Toni Morrison is good though, what’s the problem?

[Anonymous No.10676624]

>>10674664
Continue writing >/pol >/pol/ >/pol/ until rupi kaur ends up winning the nobel prize.

[Anonymous No.10676716]

>>10676624
damn that would be the end of the white race

[Anonymous No.10676720]

>>10676716
>>10676716
>>676767 get

[Anonymous No.10676784]

>>10676593

it's definitely literature

[Anonymous No.10676786]

>>10676784
you're definitely a retard

[Anonymous No.10676787]

>>10675485

explain for the uninitiated

[Anonymous No.10676795]

>>10676786

poetry is literature
well made lyrics are poetry
A = C

building a fence around your personal definitions wont make you any less irritating to be around

[Anonymous No.10676800]

>>10676787
>Dubliners, his first book, published June 1914
>Archduke Franz Ferdinand shot June 28, 1914
>Finnegans Wake, his last book, published May 4,1939
>Germans invade Poland September 1, 1939
what more proof do you need faggot

[Anonymous No.10676802]

>>10676800

so because his books were published around the same time as some happenings they caused it?

[Anonymous No.10676806]

>>10676800
Posts like this are why I still come here

[Anonymous No.10676807]

>>10676802
he’s a Hibernian you stupid blue pilled faggot

[Anonymous No.10676809]

>>10676800

[Anonymous No.10676812]

>>10676807

a tru-tru red pill knows that he becomes what he surrounds himself with. or her, whatever.

are you becoming gay and sensitive to the touch anon? because if you want, I'll lighten your load.

[Anonymous No.10676826]

>>10676802
Are you daft? Of course they did, the proofs are there

[Anonymous No.10676828]

>>10676826

ah, how could I have been so silly.

[Anonymous No.10676838]

>>10676802
yeah retard thats how physics works

[Anonymous No.10676841]

>>10676838

word

[Anonymous No.10676869]

>>10674650
It is for getting worthy writers attention they might not ever have gotten. Otherwise, no.

[Anonymous No.10676958]

>adult
>prize

[Anonymous No.10676959]

>>10676958

quality

[Anonymous No.10677109]

>>10674812
>There's an overrepresentation of American authors in the nobel laureates.
The Americans are 9.6%, the Swedes are 7%
hmmmm

[Anonymous No.10677196]

>>10674650
bob dylan won the prize so ummm nope not really

[Anonymous No.10677210]

>>10674650
>Jorge Amado

come on man

[Anonymous No.10677217]

>>10674650
It's been a joke ever since they gave it to Bertrand Russell

[Anonymous No.10677227]

>>10674951
>>10674755

this shit is so good though

[Anonymous No.10677268]

>>10676593
First of all, Dylan has published poems, so you're wrong. But even then, literature is not defined by it's medium. The chanson de geste was originally only sung, yet it's considered literature. Therefore, the same can be said about lyrics.

[Anonymous No.10677336]

>>10677210
Okay sorry, not Jorge Amado.
You can choose another one.

[Anonymous No.10677734]

>>10676607
No she isn't.

[Anonymous No.10677764]

I wish the Nobel gave more consideration to aesthetics and less to politics.
It is shameful Borges was denied the Nobel just because of wrongthink.

[Anonymous No.10677812]

>>10677764
Can this be true? They gave it to Yeats and Hamsun lol. Also, justice for Nabokov.

[Anonymous No.10677830]

>>10677812
Yeats and Hamsun were awarded the Nobel before WWII when Sweden had not yet turned to its current political orientation.

Nabokov and Borges were both considered for the Nobel but rejected for wrongthink. Instead, Neruda was granted one for goodthink.

[Anonymous No.10677849]

>>10677830
>Nabokov didn't get it for wrongthink
They love awarding it to USSR critics. He didn't get it because he was "shallow", an aestheticist, he deserved it though
Borges didn't deserve it for Ficciones alone, everything else is kinda mediocre
And you're right, Yeats got it while his fascism was still dormant

[Anonymous No.10678023]

>>10677764
How was Borges a wrongthinker at all? He opposed commies and nazis alike, he seems like he was just a milquetoast classical liberal

[Anonymous No.10678037]

>>10678023
If I'm not mistake, he was a supporter of the military dictatorship in Argentina.

[Anonymous No.10678379]

kafka never finished a novel why would he be awarded one

[Anonymous No.10678384]

>>10674951
>José de Alencar, Monteiro Lobato and Plínio Salgado

O fato de voce dizer que esses escritores são grandes - sobretudo José de Alencar, que é terrível - me mostra que suas críticas não são baseadas em critérios artísticos, mas sim em ideologia.

Voce deve ser daqueles "Maldito PT, maldito Lula, malditos Comunistas, viva o golpe militar que salvou meu país dos Comunistas, e o grande professor Olavo de Carvalho, hur dur", com a mente infecionada por dualidades como bem x mal, bonzinhos x bandidos, capitalistas x comunistas, etc.

Não há como negar que existem problemas gravíssimos de desigualde social em nosso país, e isso pode muito bem ser objeto de grandes obras de arte. Quer um exemplo: veja muitos dos contos de Tolstói e Chekhov.

E por acaso voce leu livros de Jorge Amado que estão fora de sua fase comunista? (Dona Flor e seus Dois Maridos, Gabriela Cravo e Canela, Tenda dos milagres, Tereza Batista cansada de guerra e Tieta do Agreste).

Voce leu "O Tempo e o Vento", de Erico Verissimo? (e mesmo eu romance de realismo mágico e política, "Incidente em Antares", que é maravilhoso)

Voce leu Lavoura Arcaica?

E só para constar, uma boa parte da melhor literatura de todos os tempos é Latino Americana. "Cem Anos de Solidão", por exemplo, pode competir com qualquer coisa que Melville e Dostoievsky escreveram.

Abra os olhos. Veja se não deixa todo esse ódio pró-extrema-direita se alastrar por seu cérebro como um fungo.

Mais uma vez: nós vivemos num país de ampla desiguladade social. Existem livos que retratam essa realidade de forma superficial, é verdade, porém também existem obras que falam de nossas mazelas de forma muito humana e sensível.

[Anonymous No.10678406]

>>10675698
>Alencar is the best for a e s t h e t i c s

you will never make it

You need to read some Shakespeare, some García Márquez, some Neruda, some Yourcenar, to see just how cafona, brega and bolorento is the style of Alencar.

If you think Alencar's prose is poetic you are beyond saving.

[Anonymous No.10678463]

>>10675714
>But we're too caught up in narratives and ideology to actually have any real good literature

But if you show the lives of the poor, the blacks, the índios, the manual workers, etc., in a rational way, without politic comments, but only with a human lens, you can not be called an ideologist.

Showing the reality of a country is not ideology.

In the same way, when you show the lives of the upper classes, you have to show them as human, with faults and qualities, like everyone else: people who suffer and rejoice, just as the poor suffer and rejoice.

The key is to show that anywhere a human being is a human being, not an ideal, not a symbol, not a philosophy of life.

But to show corruption, crime, exploitation, racism, prejudice (or, in the past, corruption and violence of the military regime, for example): this is not "ideology": it is talking about the country as the country is and was.

[Anonymous No.10678565]

>>10678384
Amigo, pare de projetar sua paranoia em outros. Você tentar encaixar meu post em seu arquétipo demonizado mostra claramente que você nem tentou considerar o que escrevi.

Acredito que questões sociais podem ser excepcionalmente exploradas em um contexto literário, desde que não sejam reduzidas a panfletismo e pelo menos tentem explorar aspectos universalizante, exatamente como Tolstói e Chekhov fizeram. Minha crítica à literatura brasileira principalmente se concentra no fato que ela, em grande parte, concentra-se somente em aspectos superficiais da sociedade. Machado de Assis, mesmo sendo, admitidamente, um exímio novelista, mostra exatamente tal tendência. Sua ironia, seu sarcasmo e sua obra se reduz a repetidamente explorar os mesmos temas de opressão da classe superior, o que não dá muito mérito às suas obras ao tentar analisá-las fora do aspecto político.
Em nenhum ponto eu critiquei a literatura latino-americana como um todo. Na verdade, o exemplo que eu daria de um autor excepcional que trata de temas sociais e, ao mesmo tempo, universais seria Garcia Márquez. A literatura latino-americana do século XX conseguiu, ao meu ver, transcender os seus aspectos temporais para criar coisas realmente duradouras e sensíveis à condição humana. Os brasileiros estão ficando para trás de seus vizinhos nesse aspecto.

Sua tentativa de descartar meus argumentos simplesmente por um viés ideológico imaginário é uma das principais questões que me fazem achar que é baixíssima a chance do Brasil perder o aspecto monodimensional da sua literatura. A deificação de seus autores simplesmente por eles marcarem as caixinhas certas para a política acadêmica é o maior câncer possível para a produção nacional.

[Anonymous No.10678576]

>>10678463
>Showing the reality of a country is not ideology.
Yeah, it's just exposition, not art. Frankly, after Manuel Antônio de Almeida, no one really did cross that barrier.

[Anonymous No.10678589]

>>10678406
Iracema is pure poetry in prose form, though. The reason I like Melville so much is because he's basically Alencar with added depthness and better overall production.

[Anonymous No.10678735]

>>10678565

Concordo com voce. Esse seu novo post me fez perceber melhor seu ponto de vista.

Como eu queria ver algo como Cem Anos de Solidão ser escrito por um brasileiro. Algo como "Viva o Povo Brasileiro", porém com uma prosa mais poética, com maior sutileza e sem essa eterna briga entre ricos e pobres.

Concordo com voce que temos grandes problemas com o panfleto invadindo o poema, mas espero que isso possa ser vencido no futuro.

[Anonymous No.10678747]

>>10678576
>Yeah, it's just exposition, not art.

But if you do it by creating life-like characters (like Quixote, Snacho, Zórba, Falstaff, Ahab), using a beautiful prose and weaving meaningful plots, then it would be art.

[Anonymous No.10678756]

>>10678589

I always seen Melville as some sort of Shakespeare in novel form (although Melville is not even as great in language skills as Shakespeare is).

[Anonymous No.10678769]

>it's another thread by Brazilians shilling their writers

[Anonymous No.10678815]

>>10674661
>vegan
Don't put us in the same group as those cucks, veganism is a logical, moral, healthy and environmentally friendly lifestyle choice.

[Anonymous No.10678818]

>>10678735
Estou junto de você com a esperança. Poucas coisas me fariam tão feliz com meu país do que nos ver produzir arte significativa.
Mas creio que teremos que nos resignar à esperança, pelo menos no futuro à frente.

>>10678747
I agree. But very few Brazilian writers have ever achieved that.

>>10678756
I really need to get my Shakespeare level up. I read some plays and sonets back in highschool, but they were translated and didn't quite convey his mastery. I guess I'm just scared of Ye Olde English.
No reason to not dive in it nowadays, though

[Anonymous No.10678822]

>>10678769
Leave us alone.

[Anonymous No.10678847]

If you read some of the recent laureates like Modiano, Herta Müller or (god forbid) Munro you'll realize they're just absolute trash. Don't direct any attention that way, it's pointless.

[Anonymous No.10678899]

>>10678847
>Munro

C'mon, she is a very talented realist short-story writer

[Anonymous No.10678908]

>>10675458
Not all of them desu.

[Anonymous No.10679834]

>>10677734
i see people memeing this on this board all the time. like none of you have actually ever read anything i gather, you just come on here to pretend?

[Anonymous No.10680959]

>>10676795
Then if I wrote a very good screenplay for a movie, can I get a nobel in literature too?