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/lit/ - Literature

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10642535 No.10642535 [Reply] [Original]

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

John 3:8

What does Jesus mean by this?

>> No.10642548

>>10642535
You can only really live in the moment, and you don't know the greater plan of God/reality.

>> No.10642557

>>10642535

It's a description of delusions of reference, lol. You hear things and think they have significance they don't, but can't explain why because they're not actually related. Unless of course they are, in which case fuck me.

>> No.10642568

>>10642535
In my translation, instead of "wind blows" is "spirit blows".

I think that Jesus is telling that althouth all spirits hear the Holy Spirit, they dosent realy get it from where it comes.
The Holy Spirit tells them what is right and wrong, but they dont realy know why or from where they are having such knowledge.
Looks a moral teaching to me.

>> No.10642628

>>10642535
Biblically speaking, demonic possession is wholly a compulsion towards movement, a 'move there', 'do this'.
When Christ says that those 'born of the Spirit' leave you 'without knowing where they come from or where they go', he's saying they aren't demonically possessed.

>> No.10642717 [DELETED] 
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10642717

basically this
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WfQ6NAbOhxI

when you have the holy spirit haterz cant c u

>> No.10642792

>>10642535
*bloweth
*listeth
*whence
*whither

>> No.10642804

>>10642535
I think it's pretty clear. Those who live by the Spirit are to live by faith; they get moved in a direction that they wouldn't have moved otherwise and they are to assume it is for a greater purpose, even if it doesn't feel that way in the moment.

>> No.10642987

>>10642535
go with the flo

>> No.10642993

he who smelt it dealt it

>> No.10643003

The presence of God's will in one's own volition is beyond one's control, but nevertheless is present in one's will wherever it is present.

>> No.10643014

>>10642535
Ya'll are too heavy on the catholic themes

>>10642548
Basically this, except those are born with a "spirit", or the capacity to think meta-logically, are submissive to the whims of biology and complex emotional urges.

Your "you" or "spirit" cant do anything about these urges and only really realizes they had them after they're gone. So you're constantly being pushed by them where-ever they want to go.

And thats okay.

>> No.10644105

>>10642535
He meant
> I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

You could've just read the John 3 in its entirety.

>> No.10644109

Catholic here. The wind is the Holy Spirit. There are times in the spiritual life where God's presence and consolation is more obvious, and other times when it seems distant leaving you to feel abandoned. You don't have much control over this. The saints say that God does this in order to test us our resolve and strengthen us: to give us periods of trial and periods of rest.

>> No.10644116

BEDE. It is the Holy Spirit therefore, Who blows where He lists. It is in His own power to choose, whose heart to visit with in His enlightening grace. And you hear the sound thereof. When one filled with the Holy Spirit is present with you and speaks to you.

AUG. The Psalm sounds, the Gospel sounds, the Divine Word sounds; it is the sound of the Spirit. This means that the Holy Spirit is invisibly present in the Word and Sacrament, to accomplish our birth.

ALCUIN. Therefore, You know not whence it comes, or whither it goes; for, although the Spirit should possess a person in your presence at a particular time, it could not be seen how He entered into him, or how He went away again, because He is invisible.

HAYMO. Or, You can not tell whence it comes; i.e. you know not how He brings believers to the faith; or whither it goes, i.e. how He directs the faithful to their hope. And so is every one that is born of the Spirit; as if He said, The Holy Spirit is an invisible Spirit; and in like manner, every one who is born of the Spirit is born invisibly.

AUG. Or thus: If you are born of the Spirit, you will be such, that he, who is not yet born of the Spirit, will not know whence you come, or whither you go. For it follows, So is every one that is born of the Spirit.

THEOPHYL. This completely refutes Macedonius the impugner of the Spirit, who asserted that the Holy Ghost was a servant. The Holy Ghost, we find, works by His own power, where here He will, and what He will.

>> No.10644119

CHRYS Do not look then for any material production, or think that the Spirit generates flesh; for even the Lord’s flesh is generated not by the Spirit only, but also by the flesh. That which is born of the Spirit is spiritual. The birth here spoken of takes place not according to our substance, but according to honor and grace. But the birth of the Son of God is otherwise; for else what would He have been more than all who are born again? And He would be proved too inferior to the Spirit, inasmuch as His birth would be by the grace of the Spirit. How does this differ from the Jewish doctrine? - But mark next the part of the Holy Spirit, in the divine work. For whereas above some are said to be born of God, here, we find, the Spirit generates them. - The wonder of Nicodemus being roused again by the words, He who is born of the Spirit is spirit, Christ meets him again with an instance from nature; Marvel not that I said to you, You must be born again. The expression, Marvel not, shows that Nicodemus was surprised at His doctrine. He takes for this instance some thing, not of the grossness of other bodily things, but still removed from the incorporeal nature, the wind; The wind blows where it lists, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell whence it comes, and whither it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. That is to say, if no one can restrain the wind from going where it will; much less can the laws of nature, whether the condition of our natural birth, or any other, restrain the action of the Spirit. That He speaks of the wind here is plain, from His saving, You hear the sound thereof, i.e. its noise when it strikes objects. He would not in talking to an unbeliever and ignorant person, so describe the action of the Spirit. He says, Blows where it lists; not meaning any power of choice in the wind, but only its natural movements, in their uncontrolled power. But can not tell whence it comes or whither it goes; i.e. If you can not explain the action of this wind which comes under the cognizance both of your feeling and hearing, why examine into the operation of the Divine Spirit? He adds, So is every one that is born of the Spirit.

>> No.10644126

>>10643014
Read the context. Jesus is speaking of baptism and spiritual rebirth/renewal, not just a natural state of being.

>> No.10644143

>>10642535
suck it and see, mate. -Jesus