/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10625380]

>Will: "If you want to read a real history book, read Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States." That book will knock you on your ass.
>Sean: "How about Noam Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent?"
>Will: You people baffle me. You spend all this money on beautiful, fancy books--and they're the wrong fuckin' books.
>Sean: You think so?
>Will: Whatever blows your hair back.
/lit/, I need your help: what books do I have to read to become as smart as these two characters?

[Anonymous No.10625407]

Don't read for pleasure and read everything. That's what Will did. The Robin Williams character was a pseud.

[Anonymous No.10625412]

>>10625380
nationwide chronological books are retarded, read state histories and pay attention to the ethnoreligious backgrounds of the various groups in them

99.999% of people do not understand the major political divide in the US is between those who came from northern anglican yankees and southern celtic-teuto-franco calvinist frontierspeople

[Anonymous No.10625421]

>>10625412
Good post.

[Anonymous No.10625454]

>>10625380
>A People's History of the United States
>Noam Chomsky

[Anonymous No.10625465]

[Anonymous No.10625467]

>>10625412
have you read this? is it worth it?

[Anonymous No.10625471]

>>10625380
Is this real dialogue? How isn’t Manuafacturing Consent le bigger redpill than muh Peoples History

[Anonymous No.10625473]

>>10625465
A list that starts with the Cantos is a mess.

[Anonymous No.10625478]

>>10625412
I thought the divide was the pseudo-aristocracy of the south vs. the bourgeois merchants/industrialism of the north.

Religion just provides the color work to the hard lines of economics.

[Anonymous No.10625487]

>>10625478
What are some books about this?

[Anonymous No.10625492]

>Americans literally cannot stand anything against their retarded bullshit propaganda and strike out when it's presented

Thank you for your service.

[Anonymous No.10625508]

>>10625473
Maybe you'd prefer this one.

[Anonymous No.10625509]

>>10625467
no but reading over the summary of it, it sounds like something I want to read

>>10625478
this is a civil war meme, it's far more complex than that but still ultimately boils down to differences in ethnoreligious origins and how they impacted geodemographics

anglicans/catholics left their countries because of unstable economies caused by European conflict, Presbyterians/Huguenots/Lutherans left their countries because they were getting genocided in European conflicts

[Anonymous No.10625514]

>>10625508
It's better, yeah. Nozick is a god-tier thinker.

[Anonymous No.10625516]

>>10625473
Or if you'd like to go full sperg

[Anonymous No.10625517]

>>10625508
>no Harry Potter
fucking dropped

[Anonymous No.10625524]

>>10625487
Idk about a particular book. Things I've picked up from history classes and articles in general. In my opinion it's money that divides people and they hide behind religion to justify their pettiness.

[Anonymous No.10625527]

>>10625514
Maybe this is more your speed then.

[Anonymous No.10625531]

>>10625524
Holy... I want more

[Anonymous No.10625539]

>>10625509
>A civil war meme
I guess that's one way to put it, but if everyone was making the same amount of money I doubt the religious/ethnic slant would matter much. In fact, history proves this over and over. Scarcity or not necessarily even scarcity, but exacerbated inequality causes tribalism as a defense mechanism.

[Anonymous No.10625551]

>>10625539
>but if everyone was making the same amount of money I doubt the religious/ethnic slant would matter much.

ask yourself why non-slave owning southerners with little ties to the slave economy joined on the side of the South

>but exacerbated inequality causes tribalism as a defense mechanism
you know what causes tribalism even more than interstate economics? being reminded of how your family only just recently escaped religious genocide

[Anonymous No.10625595]

>>10625412
1st year grad student?

[Anonymous No.10625612]

>>10625551
To the first question. They got memed in church by guys with money. Same way the poor Yankee bastards got memed.

To the second, I fail to see how this has continued resonance 400 years after the south was first settled. And 200 years after the civil war. And to that point who was committing genocide against Lutherans and hueguenots in the 1800s? It would have been at least two generations earlier for the young rebel men in the south. Most of them were scared of the economics of freed blacks on the market.

[Anonymous No.10625632]

>>10625380
kek

[Anonymous No.10625650]

>>10625612
You probably underestimate the persistence of identity, especially in those times. A lot of it has to do with family, and the people you grew up with. Even today people can trace the outlines of their varied cultural origins, America a huge map of patchwork.

[Anonymous No.10625681]

>>10625595
no, Texan with a Presbyterian grandma who still complains about the english civil war

>>10625612
>They got memed in church by guys with money.
much of the south, especially the deep south, were folks living out in the middle of nowhere going to barn churches, Calvinist predistination (assuming you are God's chosen, especially when surviving swamp diseases n shit) played a large role in white supremacy

>I fail to see how this has continued resonance 400 years after the south was first settled

I can tell you an easy heuristic to tell whether a white person voted for Hillary (Methodist family = reformed anglican) or Trump (Scottish Presbyterian/German Lutheran family), check their ethnoreligious background against the Anglican/Calvinist divide

>And to that point who was committing genocide against Lutherans and hueguenots in the 1800s?

Southerners were calvinists, the Southern economy was completely devastated and dominated by the North (anglican/puritan stock) following the war

[Anonymous No.10625698]

>>10625650
No I get identity politics. What I'm saying is that identity politics is just a puppet pulled by the strings of moneyed interests. The Crusades and the Reformation wouldn't have happened without the sponsorship of German princes and nobles. Religion doesn't CAUSE great movements it's used to recruit the proles into wars that enhance the power of the powerful.

[Anonymous No.10625701]

It's interesting to see how it really depends on what you look for in history to find it.

[Anonymous No.10625714]

>>10625465
>I haven't actually read blake the image

[Anonymous No.10625717]

>>10625508
How do you put Friedman, Galbraith, and Piketty under one ideological chart? I don't think whoever made this knows what neoliberalism is

[Anonymous No.10625721]

>>10625698
"Follow the money dude lmao".

[Anonymous No.10625733]

>>10625698
>that identity politics is just a puppet pulled by the strings of moneyed interests.

European abundance post-renaissance and American abundance pre-globalism was so great that ideological differences vastly overpowered economic ones

[Anonymous No.10625741]

>>10625681
I think you're overvaluing the demographic. Barely a majority of Trump voters even go to church once a week. And you gotta assume those numbers are a bit inflated because it's not like you're going to lie in the opposite direction.

[Anonymous No.10625752]

>>10625741
Forgot screenshot

[Anonymous No.10625767]

>>10625741
>Barely a majority of Trump voters even go to church once a week.

Anglicanism = adaptive moderation, universalism, the original neoliberalism
Calvinism = rebellion, predestination exceptionalism, only God knows who the chosen are

you don't have to go to church to see how old religous differences manifest in modern times and political spheres

[Anonymous No.10625770]

>>10625681
Do you have any recommended reading on this subject?

[Anonymous No.10625781]

>>10625770
literally most if not all of my education on this has been through oral family history

[Anonymous No.10625805]

>>10625721
I guess you think poker is gambling and that rich people getting richer is just luck of circumstances
>>10625733
Post Renaissance Europe had drastic inequality so that invalidates the wealth aspect. Pre globalism is a buzz word. America was founded on globalized trade. Narrow it down, are you talking post ww2 or what? If it is post ww2 it's been a very stable period and the ideology really has been two different flavors of neo liberalism. Pretty good indicator that when people are all making decent relatively similar incomes ideological differences are largely smoothed over.

[Anonymous No.10625843]

>>10625805
I just don't buy the economic argument, if slave aristocrats were truly interested in just economic gain alone, they would have sided with the north and leveraged their power for transitioning to industrialization, instead they had Protestant xenophobia from centuries of genocide and a Calvinist notion of predestination that placed them higher above blacks by divine decision, so instead they fought against the north and got their entire infrastructure wrecked without repair for almost a century

[Anonymous No.10625865]

>>10625767
Again, not saying differences in religion do not color events, but they are subservient to economics. The southern gentry, the architects of succession and the Confederacy were largely English Anglicans. They memed the poor immigrant whites with other religions into fighting their war for them. The same way the Northern interests didn't give a flying fuck about how many Irish Catholics they sent into the meat grinder.

[Anonymous No.10625885]

>>10625843
See
>>10625865
And also they thought that their cotton production was indispensable to the world. They were aristocratic in nature and saw industry and trade as dirty work for the common folk.

[Anonymous No.10625898]

>>10625865
>>10625805
http://www.theocracywatch.org/civil_war_canadian_review.htm

"The US Civil War as a Theological War: Confederate Christian Nationalism and the League of the South"

"During and after the US Civil War, several prominent Southern clergymen defined the conflict and political debate with abolitionists as a theological struggle between Christian orthodoxy and anti-Christian forces, the former comprising the Confederacy, the latter referring to the Union. Many clergymen in the South supported secession, delivering sermons and producing pamphlets championing the Confederacy (Snay; Wakelyn; Fox-Genovese and Genovese, “Social Thought”). Within the clergy, however, historians Simkins and Roland argue that it was members of the Presbyterian denomination who were widely considered to be “the intellectual elite among Southern churchmen”

[Anonymous No.10625900]

>reading about America
kek
That is for mutts

[Anonymous No.10625912]

>>10625843
>I just don't buy the economic argument, if slave aristocrats were truly interested in just economic gain alone,
>alone,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overdetermination

[Anonymous No.10625916]

>>10625632
The School Of Life is at a whole other tier.

[Anonymous No.10625940]

>>10625898
Yeah they were recruiting for their Anglican aristocratic masters. I bet a lot of money was donated to those "humble" pastors to enflame the flock.

Do you honestly see the world as not being primarily moved by vice over virtue?

[Anonymous No.10625960]

>>10625898
Just read the article. Clearly revisionist based on the works of three revisionist clergy who did most of their work post war.