/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10601221]

Is making Art for the upper classes? How can proles make art without drowning in poverty?

[Anonymous No.10601231]

Everything intellectual is for the upper classes

If a communist revolution truly does happen I will be very excited to see the bourgie "leftist" academics heads on sticks

[Anonymous No.10601256]

Hmm.

[Anonymous No.10601260]

>>10601231
:(

[Anonymous No.10601262]

Art and intellectualism require leisure, which poor people don't usually have.

[Anonymous No.10601264]

>>10601260

[Anonymous No.10601290]

>>10601221

[Pseudo Intellectual No.10601306]

>>10601221
Real Estate (lotsa downtime, good money)
Crime
I do a bit of sound design and copy editing too, which are like paid practice sessions for my true passions.

[Anonymous No.10601317]

>>10601221
How can the upper class make art if they've never had a rich human experience? Their wealth insulates them from the intense experience of the stakes being homelessness and death on a frozen December street.

[Anonymous No.10601522]

>>10601221
It was until the late 19th century. Monet was poor as fuck.

[Anonymous No.10601570]

>>10601221
It's actually not very hard to become financially free / wealthy.

If you took someone with the brain of Warren Buffet, relieved him of his wealth entirely and gave him a job greeting folks at walmart for 8.15/hr he would be a multi-millionaire again within a few years.

That is the real difference between rich and poor, the contents of their brains. The secret is quite simple and I could tell you in a single sentence, however it would do you no good, you need to train your brain to think differently, mostly by reading financial books.

[Anonymous No.10601578]

>>10601221
You find a wealthy patron, or at least that's how it worked in the past

[Anonymous No.10601580]

>>10601570
t. 19th century sociologist

[Anonymous No.10601584]

>>10601580
t. has never read a single book on wealth that wasn't inane endless drivel of capitalism vs. communism

[Anonymous No.10601594]

>>10601317
>this is what poorfags actually believe

[Anonymous No.10601602]

>>10601221

Just dictate your art ideas to the future where they will use post-singularity AI to actually make it duh

[Anonymous No.10601608]

>>10601570
You realize that Buffet himself has talked about this in several of his books and that he adamantly disagrees with you? Your hero worship is pathetic btw.

[Anonymous No.10601613]

>>10601594
>Can't explain why rich fag art enthusiasts constantly dirty themselves with the commoners just for a taste of "the struggle"
Face it, luxury is comfy but boring.

[Anonymous No.10601618]

>>10601594
Name a truly great work of art that wasn't created by someone in the working class.

[Anonymous No.10601619]

>>10601608
Well buffett is a unique man, and I should have said "almost any millionair or billionaire"
Especially the ones who got there through investing.

If you don't worship heroes, what do you worship?

[Anonymous No.10601631]

>>10601618
Well it's not a very fair competition since the "working class" is 99% of the population and a great work of art is a pretty rare thing.

[Anonymous No.10601633]

>>10601619
How old are you, just curious

[Anonymous No.10601634]

>>10601619
> I should have said "almost any millionair or billionaire"

This is just doubling down on your own stupidity.

[Anonymous No.10601635]

>>10601613
>Can't explain why rich fag art enthusiasts constantly dirty themselves with the commoners just for a taste of "the struggle"
You never asked me to explain it. I can do so easily. They're a bunch of trendy fags (lower class trends are in), like a lot of rich brats are. Not all animals are cats but all cats are animals. Most rich people are useless cunts, but nevertheless privilege of blood and possessions are almost always necessary in the production of profound individuals.

[Anonymous No.10601636]

>>10601618
all art

[Anonymous No.10601640]

>>10601231
Diogenes lived in a barrel, Shakespeare was the son of a glove maker, Jack London spent time as a hobo, and loads of 20th-century writers lived off an army pension. This isn't even a good example of classism.

[Anonymous No.10601646]

>>10601640
>Diogenes lived in a barrel

It was a very fancy barrel.

[Anonymous No.10601664]

>>10601634
Great counter argument you have here really, instead of trying to disprove the Fact that I put forward (that the difference between poor and wealthy is only a specific intelligence or education) you insult me multiple times.

So when you are using terms like "stupid" or "pathetic" to label me, I have t conclude that it is projection on your part, since you have offered no shred of a counter-argument.

[Anonymous No.10601665]

>>10601635
It's not a trend if rich fags have been patronizing poor artists since before the Medici banking clan. Do you have any knowledge of history?

[Anonymous No.10601672]

>>10601664
God, you sound insufferable

[Anonymous No.10601686]

>>10601664
>Man who I used as my example actually disagrees with my theory on why he's successful
>Maybe I'm wrong? No he's just a unique case for unexplained reasons

[Anonymous No.10601691]

>>10601664
>instead of trying to disprove the Fact that I put forward

You didn't put forward any facts. You put forward some pathetically simplistic hero worship in a barely comprehensible manner. To make matters worse, the person you chose to idolize has repeatedly gone on record to disagree with you.

[Anonymous No.10601709]

>>10601686
>>10601691
I admitted that Warren Buffet was a bad example, he spent his entire childhood reading financial papers and mastering investment, which led him to become one of the richest men in the world.

The Idea that I am talking about is much simpler, that poverty is completely avoidable and in fact almost everyone who chooses to could be part of the top 5-10% very easily - and that it is only a matter of education, and retraining your brain to make the right choices.

[Anonymous No.10601725]

>>10601709
Are you a Libertarian?

[Anonymous No.10601734]

>>10601709

>poverty is completely avoidable and in fact almost everyone who chooses to could be part of the top 5-10% very easily - and that it is only a matter of education, and retraining your brain to make the right choices.

True for most demographics

[Anonymous No.10601737]

>>10601725
There isn't much point in being a libertarian, it is the atheism of politics. But yes I am

[Anonymous No.10601744]

>>10601737
Imagine my shock.

[Anonymous No.10601746]

>>10601734
You have to have at least a high enough IQ to do basic planning so yeah, there are plenty of people who are doomed financially from birth.

[Anonymous No.10601749]

>>10601640
The barrel was actually his reward from the city, for being such a great philosopher. His nestegg

[Anonymous No.10601757]

>>10601672
You still haven't argued against him though.

Watch,
You are stupid and smell bad.
Well, that's it. I guess I win this round. Better luck next time.

[Anonymous No.10601760]

>>10601746

No, I mean there are demographics for whom education is literally entirely uncorrelated to success.

[Anonymous No.10601765]

>>10601760
I'm not talking about regular education, I am talking specifically about the financial education the wealthy learn and teach their children.

[Anonymous No.10601775]

>>10601765

The best poker player in the world couldn't be a winning player without a bankroll big enough to handle statistical swings. I'm sure similar logic applies to markets.

[Anonymous No.10601789]

>>10601775
You can make a profitable investment with one dollar.

[Anonymous No.10601791]

>>10601789

That's literally entirely unrelated to what I said.

[Anonymous No.10601808]

>>10601791
I'm talking about wealth creation not gambling.

[Anonymous No.10601858]

>>10601808
I don't think you know what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.10601867]

>>10601808

Poker is winnable with statistical variance. It's not "gambling". It's a zero-sum game, which is the only way in which it differs from markets. I still think the point about variance is true.

[Anonymous No.10601869]

>>10601221

This is why the bourgies need to be shot. Anyone that supports capitalists or capitalism also needs to be shot. They are nothing but cucks for the capitalists.

[Anonymous No.10601897]

>>10601869
Will you shoot them while wearing homemade clothes made from sheep you raised yourself, with a homemade gun from ore that you mined yourself, and a belly full of food that you travelled around the world to gather?

[Anonymous No.10601918]

>>10601618
all the russians

[Anonymous No.10601921]

>>10601897

[Anonymous No.10601940]

>>10601921
Where commies and socialists go wrong is in blaming capitalism for all of their problems, instead of the kleptocratic state. In fact they do the opposite and demand MORE state tyranny and mob rule (aka "democracy")
What they need is MORE capital and capitalism, it's an incredibly obvious observation that even a woman who could barely write a single readable novel realized.

[Anonymous No.10601944]

>>10601221
>>10601317
> upper class make art
They dont
Artists usually drown in poverty

[Anonymous No.10601951]

>>10601940
Right, because there's nothing "kleptocratic" about top capitalists at all.

[Anonymous No.10601958]

>>10601940

I'm embarrassed on your behalf to have to say this, but Ayn Rand was much, much smarter than you.

[Anonymous No.10601964]

>>10601951
I understand you are trying to be sarcastic, but your statement is in fact true. People don't get to the top in capitalism by being unethical or criminal, unless they are using state power to get ahead they will have to offer real value.

[Anonymous No.10601977]

>>10601958
It's really not very hard to argue against communism

[Anonymous No.10601984]

>>10601977

Please stop posting

[Anonymous No.10601995]

>>10601984
Stop reading my posts and go clean your room

[Anonymous No.10601999]

>>10601995

I don't have a room, lol

[Anonymous No.10602082]

>>10601964
>People don't get to the top in capitalism by being unethical or criminal
Google "Bernard Madoff", "Kenneth Lay", or "Sackler family"

[Anonymous No.10602097]

>>10601221
no, look at rap music

[Anonymous No.10602124]

>>10602082
Thank you for three examples that prove my point that being unethical ruins you in the end, and therefor is not the way that most capitalists conduct themselves and instead they follow paths of being extremely ethical.
I understand you have a hard time undoing the imaginary monster that the marxist has created for you, but try to have an open mind.
Jealousy of the success of others is a guarantee for your own personal failure.

[Anonymous No.10602134]

>>10601570
>i could tell you in a single sentence but i won’t because im lying

[Anonymous No.10602142]

>>10602134
Poor people create and purchase liabilities, while wealthy people create and purchase assets.

[Anonymous No.10602150]

>>10602142

Poor people spend all their money on food, housing, and other necessities.

[Anonymous No.10602161]

>>10602150
Every item you can imagine can either be an asset or a liability, even a shirt or food.

[Anonymous No.10602163]

>>10602124
>my point that being unethical ruins you in the end
Not that anon, but its difficult to say that when the only time we would know they are being unethical or criminal is when they are caught. How can you say with certainty that everyone that acts criminally is caught?

[Anonymous No.10602167]

Information and art is hierarchial and capitalist in nature so I guess.

Correction: it is for the RICH and the NEETS

[Anonymous No.10602173]

>>10602161

You might as well just say "wealthy people make money". You're approaching a tautology.

[Anonymous No.10602180]

>>10602142
absolutely retarded what assets could a person with a 50k a year salary and kids purchase you retard?

[Anonymous No.10602185]

>>10602180
Like I mentioned earlier even one dollar can afford a profitable investment.

[Anonymous No.10602188]

>>10602150
Thank god I inherited two houses

[Anonymous No.10602199]

>>10602173
Exactly "wealthy people make money" , "poor people burn it" , I like that.

[Anonymous No.10602201]

>>10602188
The House of the Seven Gables no doubt, but at great cost!

[Anonymous No.10602208]

>>10602199

Right, but unless you know -why- you still haven't done anything except describe what wealth and poverty look like.

[Anonymous No.10602222]

>>10602185
unbelievably apathetic and uncaring

[Anonymous No.10602223]

>>10602208
The why is that they have different knowledge and make different choices. You have to develop a sort of money-consciousness to really see it I think, that is why I knew it would be pointless to mention.

[Anonymous No.10602234]

>>10601918
>all the russians
Tolstoy was an actual count.
Dostoyevski was born in a noble family.
Pushkin was from a noble family.
Lermontov was from a noble family.

[Anonymous No.10602240]

>>10602223

Seems like it could easily be an illusion or ex-post facto rationalization. Also doesn't account for >>10601775

[Anonymous No.10602243]

>>10602222
How is wanting to teach someone like that how to properly think about what they do with their money uncaring?

[Anonymous No.10602250]

>>10602234

That's what they said. You're agreeing with them.

[Anonymous No.10602252]

Shakespeare did alright

[Anonymous No.10602257]

>>10602243
>Why don't the poor just invest their money instead of eating?

[Anonymous No.10602259]

>>10602257
I already stated specifically that food can be an asset.

[Anonymous No.10602264]

>>10602259

Food is an asset for anyone who makes more money doing anything than they spend on food. That doesn't mean that a person's eating choices are liable to be the difference between wealth and poverty if they make less than $10k a year for example.

[Anonymous No.10602270]

I don't know why any of you even bother talking to Libertarians.

[Anonymous No.10602277]

>>10602259
holy shit what
food isn't a financial asset except in the abstract, as a security

[Anonymous No.10602282]

>>10602270

I used to be a Libertarian. I am still sympathetic to many Libertarian arguments.

[Anonymous No.10602283]

>>10602259
And the need to consume food is a liability literally everyone has

[Anonymous No.10602288]

>>10602264
Of course food isn't the difference, it's probably about 1% of the overall. The state of mind that I am promoting looks at every single financial and time decision that one makes, and makes a judgement and choice based on the potential future.

A salad is an Asset.
A cheeseburger is a Liability.
They both cost 5$

Does this single decision make you wealthy? No, but this and 1000 others like it will.

[Anonymous No.10602297]

>>10602288
bootstraps etc.

[Anonymous No.10602301]

>>10601221
Artists have always been dreamers, romantics and bohemians who don't care about poverty as long as they do what they love. This is one of the reastons why artist lean to the left.

[Anonymous No.10602310]

>>10602288

A lot more than 1000. Probably more like an entire lifetime. For some people, the prospect of having modest wealth just in time to die isn't terribly appealing.

[Anonymous No.10602311]

>>10602288
>“Would it not be better if they spent more money on wholesome things like oranges and wholemeal bread or if they even, like the writer of the letter to the New Statesman, saved on fuel and ate their carrots raw? Yes, it would, but the point is that no ordinary human being is ever going to do such a thing. The ordinary human being would sooner starve than live on brown bread and raw carrots. And the peculiar evil is this, that the less money you have, the less inclined you feel to spend it on wholesome food. A millionaire may enjoy breakfasting off orange juice and Ryvita biscuits; an unemployed man doesn't. Here the tendency of which I spoke at the end of the last chapter comes into play. When you are unemployed, which is to say when you are underfed, harassed, bored, and miserable, you don't want to eat dull wholesome food. You want something a little bit 'tasty'. There is always some cheaply pleasant thing to tempt you.

[Anonymous No.10602324]

>>10602311

I eat what they serve at the homeless shelter

[Anonymous No.10602326]

>>10602310
.. it's a good thing we live in this age where we can start a business with almost no initial invest and become ridiculously rich very, very quickly then.

[Anonymous No.10602328]

>>10602324
Alright, you win /biz/

[Anonymous No.10602334]

>>10602326

Most businesses, I think about 90%, fail within the first 5 years.

[Anonymous No.10602336]

>>10602326
>with almost initial investment
no
>become rich very quickly
no most businesses, 90%, fail in the first 24 months

[Anonymous No.10602338]

>>10602311
It sounds like he is describing niggers and fat dorito eating videogame plkaying wastes, who cares what happens to these people? Nature wants them dead in a ditch.

[Anonymous No.10602340]

>>10602334
Forbes has 80% in 18 months
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericwagner/2013/09/12/five-reasons-8-out-of-10-businesses-fail/#37dae2ef6978

[Anonymous No.10602344]

>>10602334
>>10602336
>>10602340

>muh 90%
M

[Anonymous No.10602345]

>>10601221
Class war, the highest art.

[Anonymous No.10602349]

>>10602338
>This was March, but the weather had been horribly cold and everywhere there were mounds of blackened snow. As we moved slowly through the outskirts of the town we passed row after row of little grey slum houses running at right angles to the embankment. At the back of one of the houses a young woman was kneeling on the stones, poking a stick up the leaden waste-pipe which ran from the sink inside and which I suppose was blocked. I had time to see everything about her—her sacking apron, her clumsy clogs, her arms reddened by the cold. She looked up as the train passed, and I was almost near enough to catch her eye. She had a round pale face, the usual exhausted face of the slum girl who is twenty-five and looks forty, thanks to miscarriages and drudgery; and it wore, for the second in which I saw it, the most desolate, hopeless expression I have ever-seen. It struck me then that we are mistaken when we say that ‘It isn’t the same for them as it would be for us,’ and that people bred in the slums can imagine nothing but the slums. For what I saw in her face was not the ignorant suffering of an animal. She knew well enough what was happening to her—understood as well as I did how dreadful a destiny it was to be kneeling there in the bitter cold, on the slimy stones of a slum backyard, poking a stick up a foul drain-pipe.”

[Anonymous No.10602356]

>>10602326
Just learn JavaScript and make an app! Capitalism works!

[Anonymous No.10602364]

>>10602356
It could, but I would recommend some good old fashioned buying and selling.

[Anonymous No.10602378]

first define "art"
it's completely subjective
and "good" art is even more subjective

[Anonymous No.10602395]

>>10602349
What exactly is your point? Are we including the third world in our discussion of capitalism - those people are mostly incapable of it. They should be living more natural lives in tribal communities. Their problem is attempting to emulate the first world without even having evolved far enough to compete in it. Sad but true, and there is no way we can carry them to the stars with us - the weight is too heavy.

[Anonymous No.10602404]

>>10602395

I have a 144 IQ, six degrees, and am homeless

[Anonymous No.10602411]

>>10602404
Clean your barrel.

[Anonymous No.10602416]

>>10602411

I assume this is a Jordan Peterson reference to getting my life in order and not literal. Nobody cares whether my life is in order. I'm transsexual. That appears to trump literally everything else.

[Anonymous No.10602426]

>>10601570
Bullshit. If Buffet was 20 today he would struggle to become a billionaire because the opportunities 60 years ago don't exist today anymore. The only way is if he inherited 100k and invested in crypto or something. Although I agree that there's a clear difference between poor and rich mentality but that alone isn't enough nowadays.

[Anonymous No.10602434]

>>10602395
>The Road to Wigan Pier is a book by the British writer George Orwell, first published in 1937. The first half of this work documents his sociological investigations of the bleak living conditions among the working class in Lancashire and Yorkshire in the industrial north of England before World War II.

[Anonymous No.10602435]

>>10602426
Please go on, tell me more reasons you can't become wealthy.

[Anonymous No.10602442]

>>10602435
>You realize that Buffet himself has talked about this in several of his books and that he adamantly disagrees with you?

[Anonymous No.10602448]

>>10602434
>george orwell
>the socialist
>writing about life 100 years ago

The scene your massive obnoxious green text is describing has absolutely no parallels in the world today except for non-white communities, and the third world. It's also highly exaggerated and biased.

[Anonymous No.10602461]

>>10602442
I have already conceded that the way buffet made his money is completely irrelevant today.
However if he thinks it's impossible to become rich from nothing now then he is completely incorrect.
There is so much money floating around it is almost too easy to simply choose to acquire some for yourself, alternatively you can continue to brainwash yourself with all the reasons you think it is too hard or impossible.

[Anonymous No.10602475]

>>10602461

I'd like to start a video game studio. Would you finance me?

[Anonymous No.10602483]

>>10601640
shakespeare made a living off his work and received a classical education
like half of US presidents have served in the military
living a 'working class' lifestyle for purely personal reasons does not make you working class

[Anonymous No.10602488]

>>10602475
I don't gamble.

[Anonymous No.10602497]

>>10602488

Fine. Do you know anyone hiring in IT? I am trained and was at the top of my class. I'm not currently certified but could have whatever certifications are asked for within one, two months at most.

[Anonymous No.10602516]

>>10602497
top of your class doing what?
did you think all the posters for jobs fairs, and sponsored speakers from companies, and local community gatherings of professionals advertised on campus were for fun and games?

you could probably get a job just by going to /biz/

[Anonymous No.10602517]

>>10602497
Last I heard there are about 200k open IT positions in the usa, if you can't get one then you're not trying hard enough.

[Anonymous No.10602527]

>>10602326
Have you started a business and become ridiculously rich very, very quickly?

[Anonymous No.10602528]

>>10602416


No I'm >>10602517
>>10602404

[Anonymous No.10602531]

>>10601221
>art cannot be made/enjoyed for/by the masses

[Anonymous No.10602532]

>>10602528

Wow, that came out dyslexic.

[Anonymous No.10602536]

>>10602497
>Do you know anyone hiring in IT?
You mean like every single IT company?

[Anonymous No.10602537]

>>10602426
> the opportunities 60 years ago don't exist today anymore.

ah yes, the 21st century, where the opportunities of half a century ago have "completely disappeared", and the brightest unemployed minds can't come up with a creative way to produce any value while 1st generation immigrants eat their lunch every day

[Anonymous No.10602540]

>>10602527
I have, it was almost like magic, but it took me about 10 years to find the door.

[Anonymous No.10602582]

>>10601221
the history of art is the history of overly educated people spending enormous amounts of time sticking rare materials from far off lands onto walls and canvas. the only real artists are bands that are (or were at one time) signed to the 'Fueled by Ramen' record label or its imprint 'DecayDance'

[Anonymous No.10602614]

>live in car
>work part time to pay for food and other neccesities
>have plenty of free time to devote to art

Thats my plan at least.

[Anonymous No.10602617]

>>10602614
what kind of art are you planning to make in your car?

[Anonymous No.10602637]

>>10601221
dosty tho

[Anonymous No.10602649]

>>10602617
Im planning to record some songs ive been meaning to record for a while, and after that im gonna just let things spontaneously happen

[Anonymous No.10602664]

>>10602435
Personality, competition, absence of good network, higher living costs, good education is more expensive and generates more debts but the average person can't get a good paying job without it, stocks aren't that profitable anymore and you need to take much higher risks nowadays

>>10602537
Go on. Turn your life savings into a million by investing in stocks unless you aren't like the average person and can come up with a creative way of producing value

[Anonymous No.10602756]

>>10602664
I have not suggested "getting a job" even once in this entire thread, but your pedestrian brainwashing of go to college + get a gud job = success is really amusing.

How is education expensive? It's generally called the internet, Or are you as incompetent at learning for yourself as you are at thinking for yourself?

Anyways I have things to do, and captcha is annoying me so I will leave you people with a book, just in case you want a beginners guide to real money, keep in mind knowledge is the only thing that determines your future.

[Anonymous No.10602773]

>>10602756

My dad recommended that book to me. He went from being an engineer to working at Home Depot recently.

[Anonymous No.10602780]

>>10602773
someday we realize our dad's were right about everything all along

[Anonymous No.10602781]

>>10602780

My dad is a spineless oaf and I hope he chokes to death on his cowardice

[Anonymous No.10602786]

>>10602781
You will weep like a baby when he is gone.

[Anonymous No.10602947]

There's a bar, a minimum of material comfort and leisure time you need to have. Many anons here are saying that a lot artists drowned in poverty. It's only partially true. Most of them had childhoods with enough material comfort to pursue their insterests. What happens in their adulthoods is another matter.

[Anonymous No.10602968]

>>10601570
would his dad still be a congressman and would his schooling still be entirely paid for

[Anonymous No.10602986]

>>10601570
Poor people are genetically inferior just like the niggers!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous No.10603010]

>>10602483
Yeah but his Shakespeare's dad was a low rank bureaucrat of a wool guild. And Shakespeare attended a local school where he was allowed to continue his education into higher learning because he was a promising pupil. He worked as a teacher there to pay off his scholarship
debts.Working class does not = abject poverty. It just means you gotta work to make a living.

[Anonymous No.10603026]

>>10601570
>this is what the right actually believes

[Anonymous No.10603041]

>>10603026
The problem is that we need them to believe this because the only way to create a radical redistribution a of wealth is through some type of massive war. The have-nots have to kill a bunch of themselves off so that the remainders can have more individual wealth. Deep down all humans know this and it is the source of survivors guilt.

[Anonymous No.10603054]

>>10603041

Wealth isn't zero-sum, so that's not how it works.

[Anonymous No.10603057]

Fuck I had such high hopes for this thread, I've been reading about the early 20th Century modernists who came up against this problem regularly, because it's a simple fact that most of the great artists were aristocrats. But I get here and it's just a fucking Randian presumably writing from his echo chamber which he has been sealed in since 2010 shouting about the free market

[Anonymous No.10603082]

>>10603054
Buddy wealth is ultimately the representation of tangible, limited resources. It is a zero-sum game. The American dollar itself is based on the fact that it is the de facto currency of the oil industry. Never forget that money is just a symbolic place holder for something that is tangibly useful i.e. land, labor, and goods.

[Anonymous No.10603099]

>>10601570
Yeah Buffet's a super bad example here my dude

[Anonymous No.10603139]

>>10603099
>Being this smug about it

[Anonymous No.10603172]

>>10601221
Art is a product. When the art you're making isn't making money, that means your art isn't very good.

[Anonymous No.10603195]

>>10602582
me on the right.

[Anonymous No.10603398]

>>10602301
This. The best artists don't care about money.

[Anonymous No.10603405]

>>10601640
It's funny that you think any of those people aren't upper class just because they may have lived in poverty at one time or another. Pretty much the textbook conception of the upper class as told by the lower classes.

[Anonymous No.10603426]

>>10603172
t. capitalist who doesn't give a fuck about art besides the art of making money

[Anonymous No.10603523]

>>10601570
hint: the secret is buy low, sell high

[Anonymous No.10603583]

>>10602416
Gross

[Anonymous No.10603606]

>>10602649
Know how I know you come from a rich family?

[Anonymous No.10603645]

>>10602448
>Passage on why people might not want to live on the bare minimum of food
>Obviously talking about dumb niggers and worthless neets that deserve it
>Maybe the poor are not just unthinking beasts
>Stop describing the third world, they are incapable of working in Capitalism
>But this is a description of what became the first world
>It has no relevance, it's biased and heavily exaggerated because I say so
?

[Anonymous No.10603951]

>>10601897
>>10601940

This is embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.10603983]

Crypto currency exists
Take advantage and live life as a non poorfag artist
Or be a poorfag forever whatever I don't care

[Anonymous No.10604016]

>>10603983
But I don't know how. I hate starving.

[Anonymous No.10604022]

>>10604016
Just throw money at stuff and hope it goes up in value
Thats pretty much it. "Educated" gambling

[Anonymous No.10604024]

>>10604022
Can u give me some coins

[Anonymous No.10604030]

>>10604024
Bitcoin, ethereum, monero, neo, omisego
Safe bets

[Anonymous No.10604036]

>>10603405
p narcissistic question, but what class would you consider me? neither of my parents went to college, dad made enough from being a car mechanic for my mom to stay home. we lived a pretty lower middle class lifestyle but my mom always pushed my siblings and I towards intellectual persuits by taking us to museums, reading to us, etc. Got into a top 10 uni with financial aid, found a faculty assistant position after graduation and make relatively good money, and am about to enter grad school.

[Anonymous No.10604070]

>>10603606
No why

[Anonymous No.10604085]

>>10601869
We don't have to do shit, it will solve itself. Once the current techno-industrial crisis gets bad enough, money and material goods will reach a tipping point where having more material goods = less chance of fucking b/c more neurotic. At that exact point capitalism will implode and the current system will seize to exist.

[Anonymous No.10604099]

>>10601317
What about Wittgenstein?

[Anonymous No.10604413]

>>10601221
bump

[Anonymous No.10604893]

>>10601757
;___;

[Anonymous No.10604973]

How the fuck would there ever be a classless society. Do people really think the government officials in a classless society are going to live the same as everyone else?

[Anonymous No.10605272]

>>10601221
In order for great artworks to be produced three things are necessary: truly great ideas, truly great talent, and people willing to pay to support it.

Therefore;
>is making Art for the upper classes?
Only under the correct conditions - in shallow ages only decoration is produced, in decadent ages talent is either not present or undeveloped, but the children of the upper classes have time and money enough to support themselves and their Art.

>How can proles make art without drowning in poverty?
Through patronage.

[Anonymous No.10606511]

>>10605272
>patronage
Bingo. It's honestly the main reason art can progress in western society. There are certain rich people who don't want culture to simply be what the hoi polloi want, thus ensuring what they perceive as better to continue developing and hunting the next diamond in the rough.

[Anonymous No.10606614]

>>10602664
> Turn your life savings into a million by investing in stocks
I already did that, anon.
>unless you aren't like the average person and can come up with a creative way of producing value
> turn copy and pasting shitty myspace css into a job
wow that was so hard

[Anonymous No.10606657]

>>10602483
>>10603405
of course shakespeare wasn't upper class, why do you think there are still conspiracy theories trying to reassign the authorship of the plays to one aristocrat or another or a whole cabal of them despite zero evidence? it's accumulated historical butthurt over the greatest writer in the english language being a commoner even though only an aristocrat "should have been" capable of that level of greatness.

[Anonymous No.10606668]

>>10601221
Patronage and selling art prints to regular people.
You know, like every single one of the old masters.

Inb4 ”what about my cringeshock performance art no one wants to pay for”

[Anonymous No.10606685]

Da Vinci had his apprentices hawk art to commoners inbetween larger contract work.

[Anonymous No.10606747]

>>10601221
i think it wildly depends on the medium

cinema: mostly for (people who worked up to) upper class, requires large funds and connections to even get started.
literature/poetry: to a certain extend. requires decent education and vocabulary. can be overcome with enough talent.
painting: education is not as neccecary as it is in literature, and paint although not cheap, is affordable.
music: one of the most accessible. even the poorest of the poorest usually have some folk songs
preforming: together with music the most accessible. every godforgotten jungle tribe has some dance or preformance

[Anonymous No.10606764]

>>10603010
This

[Anonymous No.10606768]

>>10606657

[Anonymous No.10606770]

>>10606614
Any tips?

[Anonymous No.10606771]

>>10601221
>Is making Art for the upper classes?
it was until archilochus

[Anonymous No.10606787]

>>10606768
so do the hats come off when they get sodomized by older schoolmates or not?

[Anonymous No.10606796]

>>10601221
No, in fact station can be a hendrence to effective expression. Just look at all the honky MAs getting their tryhatd sludge pumped by university presses. A vast bland body of dorks with nothing to say and no way to say it save the imitation of the artifice which substance creates, and which they mistake for the trick by which art is “created” from what they believe is an otherwise undifferentiated fodder.

Then they wonder why, even as their expression dresses the part, it lacks the devotion other works so samely decked command with ease. Then grow to hold a deep belief that the powers of reception and arbitration lay always beyond the pale of objective or even conscious judgment, and grudge the world and the canonical apostles of its choosing in contempt and grow ever more estranged from what it means to be a part of the sublime. One can only shake ones head and tut.

Meanwhile rap is no only producing art but coming to take the place of less capable forms of expression. As a pretentious wanna-be artist I would feel more validated by a having a mix tape blow up that having a dowdy little privet university press pub a limited run of a book of poems no one would read.

[Anonymous No.10606827]

>>10606787
The hats are the only things that HAVE to stay on.

I wont mention what happens with the cane.
Boris Johnson even developed a fringe as a forlorn make-shift cum-shield during his fag duties.
(credit Frankie Boyle)

[Anonymous No.10606884]

>read most of this thread
>realize /lit/ is unironically communist
HAaAaaHA
ahaha
goodluck with that LOL

[Anonymous No.10606924]

There are plenty of industrious artists who make a lot of money, the average senior graphic designer makes almost six figures, if you own your own firm you're probably a millionaire.

[Anonymous No.10607005]

>>10601221
Wagecucks are unable to create art.

[Anonymous No.10607877]

>>10606924
nice bait

[Anonymous No.10607923]

>>10602756
fuck you sound you want to ride the dicks of Elon Musk and Jordan Belfort

[Anonymous No.10607926]

>>10601221
>obvious bait thread
>194 posts

good job OP

[Anonymous No.10608003]

>>10604036
Middle class

[Anonymous No.10608117]

>>10603426
>t. capitalist who doesn't give a fuck about art besides the art of making money
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9lmvX00TLY

[Anonymous No.10608514]

>>10601221
Kafka wrote after getting home from work every day, and he's one of the most influential modernist writers. DFW was middle-class but worked most of his life. Joyce was a literature professor who could barely pay the bills. Pynch and Salinger were both army lads. Fitzgerald and Melville both wrote for a living, and didn't get rich until they married into wealth.

Class has nothing to do with artistic merit.

[Anonymous No.10608627]

>>10606884
Fuck off m8 communists get the chopper.

[Anonymous No.10609179]

COMMUNISM KILLED 100.000 TRILLION PEOPLE

[Anonymous No.10609577]

>>10601231
Bullshit. No marxist ever defended that kind of shameful, brutal lowering of the worst ills the proletarian class has to suffer (and frankly, not producing art isn't one of them).
Read Marx in the 1844 manuscripts about the "first communism" or "crude communism" for a list of reasons why you're wrong and a bitch.