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/lit/ - Literature

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10581359 No.10581359 [Reply] [Original]

How do I learn to believe in god? What books should I read? The kjv isn't cutting it (over halfway through genesis)

>> No.10581363

>>10581359
you don't; it's a scam for dumb people, like the lottery

>> No.10581371

get hooked on heroin for at least a year and then try to get sober

>> No.10581374

take a heroic dose of psychedelicmushrooms

>> No.10581380

>>10581359
not theistic but I do want to point out that "halfway through Genesis" is barely any of the bible, maybe you should read it more.

>> No.10581389

>>10581359
Read the gospels

>> No.10581390

>>10581359
In addition to this, what are the best secular arguments for the existence of God?

>> No.10581461

>>10581359
The noble quran

>> No.10581484

you don't. embrace the absurd nothingness or perish like a weakling

>> No.10581492

You mean how do I convince myself that death ain't so bad if I follow some rules about wives and divine fidelity? Be happy with the shot you got.

I know so many sweetheart gay people.. the thought of condemning them to eternal suffering in some kind of mountain peasant game system from the old days just to alleviate the existential horror of bodily death feels wrong. Like sin wrong and selfish.

Do things man, do the things people will say about you after you're gone.

>> No.10581521
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10581521

>>10581492
this

>> No.10581524
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10581524

I got this pic for future reading. I was planning to get into christian literature myself. so far I only read the bible and mere christianity by cs lewis which wasn't as profound as I thought it would be.

>> No.10581526

You have to think really, really hard about God and Jesus saving you. Do it a little bit each day for at least a week, then take a leap of faith and say "I believe" over and over again. This is commonly done by reciting the credo until you finally believe.

>> No.10581530

>>10581359
Anna Karenna will give you insights on your current situation

>> No.10581572

>>10581359
The gospels are easier to read. Maybe get a modern translation, you'll find it much clearer to understand.

>> No.10581602

>>10581526
Is this a serious suggestion? This literally sounds like brainwashing, and you could probably do this to convince yourself of anything.

>> No.10581610

the more you read the less you'll believe

my suggestion is to just go to church regularly and turn your brain off lol

>> No.10581623

Which god? the christian god? why him? cause you live in the west?

That's pretty arbitrary. You have no real reason to believe in this particular god

>> No.10581626

>>10581359
That's because kjv is trash
>T. Catholic

>> No.10581631
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10581631

Read "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis.

>> No.10581651

Do not worship any other God but me. My name is Jealous. I am a jealous God.

Hear that anon? Read between the lines. God wants to be a cuck while you get fucked by Vishnu.

Take LSD instead.

>> No.10581675

>>10581651
How bad of a trip would it be to listen to the Bible on psychedelics?

>> No.10581683

Everything is fucked up if you take enough. You go to the msdos level of paper Mario world.

>> No.10581687

>over halfway through genesis
The spiritual Manlet is giving up after only one book of a holy text.

Start in the New Testament if it’s tripping you up, but you need to read more than one section of the book

>> No.10581785

I agree with most the teachings of christianity, I enjoy going to church and I like all the traditions etc. but I read the bible and I just cannot believe it.

>> No.10581804

>>10581785
I know the feeling. I tried desperately to cling to my Catholic upbringing but I just cannot believe a word of it.

>> No.10581884
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10581884

Seriously though, how do I believe in a religion

>> No.10581891

>>10581804
I still pretend to be a christian, I just wish I actually was.

>> No.10581899

>>10581891
Fake it til you make it.

>> No.10581903

>>10581891
I could never keep up a life like that. Are you waiting to one day be convinced by Christianity?

>> No.10581905

>>10581891
I think most people feel this way

>> No.10581914

>>10581891
Embrace life and stop lying to yourself.>>10581903

>> No.10581925

>>10581903
Everyone I know is christian, i spend a lot of time helping out with the church. My whole family is christian, they even tried to convince me to go to seminary. It's just easier to keep larping

>> No.10581937

>>10581905
This
>>10581903
The Christian path is not an easy one to accept. If you are making a genuine effort to truly believe and not get a get into heaven free card there will be moments of great doubt and tribulation which is why the Church community is necessary because man is too feeble on his own.

>> No.10581951

>>10581492
>I know some sweetheart gay people
wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjPQ_jVlEnQ

>> No.10581962

drug abuse, poverty, existential despair, chronic illness

>> No.10581978

>>10581937
These aren't moments of doubt though, for me I've experienced nearly an entire decade of total unbelief in the Christian God. I think there comes a point where you have to accept that if faith takes this much work to maintain then the proposition you're attempting to subscribe to is not a correct one. Christians often make the mistake of working backwards from their conclusions.

>> No.10581989

Start with the greeks

>> No.10582000

>>10581359
Halfway through Genesis isn't very far. That said, one doesn't learn to believe in God, one comes to a belief in God through faith, prayer, spiritual reading, contemplation and meditation.

>> No.10582002

>>10581602
Nah, it was satire based on my own experiences of belief/disbelief and anxiety. I think the best evidence you'll ever get is the calmness you can experience from prayer. Altho this might depend on the prayers too, some of them can be fairly brutal on your self-esteem, while others give you peace, maybe a little hope.

>> No.10582009

>>10581978
A decade of existential crisis is part for the course for most intellectually minded people. You would probably be experiencing this doubt no matter your originally held position because that's the kind of thinker you are. You, me, and others on this board are prone to dwelling on a never ending deluge of what-ifs. In my opinion we aren't wrong to do so. Even the apostle Thomas doubted the resurrection until he touched the wounds. But those who believe without seeing are blessed because of it's difficulty not ease.

>> No.10582029
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10582029

>>10581492
>believing the fault of discrimination rests on the shoulders of the Religion and not the Individuals

>> No.10582031

>>10582009
I appreciate your kind tone but what you're saying just really doesn't resonate with me now as it would have ten years ago.
>But those who believe without seeing are blessed because of it's difficulty not ease.
This could be used to justify any kind of belief. The difficulty of such a faith comes more from the fact that everything I experience in the world is in direct contradiction with the teachings of Christianity, as it is with every other system of theism. I no longer see any reason to accept such a thing - its arbitrary. I think most existential victims just end up exhausted by intellectual searchings and force themselves back into faith, they are never truly convinced.

>> No.10582042

>>10582031
Tbh Anon, I recommened you to study the trinity.
Maybe you just have the wrong idea of what God is.

You know people are flawed, and you know philsophy can be flawed. especially if its based off of esoteric meanings that were never meant for the layman.

It really takes effort to understand, just like math, or music.

>> No.10582053
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10582053

>>10581390
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "secular arguments" but one dilemma that I've found atheism can't answer is: Why do gay people exist? Evolutionary speaking, people who exclusively have sex with people of the same sex do not carry their genes on, and homosexuality should therefore have gone extinct millions of years ago - unless of course you consider homosexuality to be a choice or an illness, which it clearly isn't.

I've discussed this dilemma with lots of people and it appears the only logical solution is that something divine must have made people gay.

>>10581492
An increasing number of Christian and Muslim scholars do not believe that homosexuality is a sin. Islam also doesn't believe in eternal hell, but rather that most people will stay a while in hell until they realise what they did wrong and then they can enter Paradise for all eternity. The Quran says that anyone who believes and tries to do good deeds will enter Paradise.

>> No.10582086

>>10582042
Believe me, I tried and I put great effort into Catholic theological study. It means nothing to me now, I’m afraid.

>> No.10582088

why are people so obsessed with gays

>> No.10582097

>>10582053
>I'm not quite sure what you mean by "secular arguments" but one dilemma that I've found atheism can't answer is: Why do gay people exist? Evolutionary speaking, people who exclusively have sex with people of the same sex do not carry their genes on, and homosexuality should therefore have gone extinct millions of years ago - unless of course you consider homosexuality to be a choice or an illness, which it clearly isn't.
Holy fuck you're dumb. Do you get all of your information on evolution and genetics through 4chan memes? Read a fucking book once in a while.
>>>/lbgt/

>> No.10582102

>>10581359
read Guénon and Schuon
there are some nice anthology collections you could start out with:
>the essential guénon
>the essential schuon
all on libgen

>> No.10582107

>>10582042
How would the concept of the trinity alter the argument? A common atheistic point against faith like the inaccuracy and dodgy authorship of the Bible doesn’t change at all in light of the trinity.

>> No.10582124

>>10582107
You don't need a perfect text to have a religion, anon. The philosophical foundation established by Jesus Christ, and the autistic organising and letter-writing Paul did, is enough.

>> No.10582145
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10582145

>>10582097
>not being able to spell >>>/lgbt/

You're more than welcome to actually argue for your position. Why do you think gay people exist?

>> No.10582153

>>10582124
I honestly cannot understand why you think that’s enough. A Jew is born in Bronze Age Palestine and claims to be the Son of God, as reported in four contradictory historical records we call the gospels (Matthew, for example, claimed that all the tombs of Jerusalem opened up and men were resurrected en masse - the other gospels do not make that claim). Years later a Jewish convicted killer claims to have a religious experience and so writes prolifically on the divinity of that man whom he never knew or met. This is sound to you? You can base a philosophy of all creation off of this?

>> No.10582184
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10582184

I like how the clear answer to how literally you should take the Bible is that it's just a mix of boring history with some science fiction bits mixed in that are completely mythologic and fabricated, and when you use this argument the religious response is "yeah humans wrote it, but god was writing through them".

That's why this conversation will never end, because you can't argue with someone who basically says "because you know.. magic", you can't put cracks in a belief system like that and begin to break it down because they have already thrown reason and objectivity out the window.

>> No.10582200

>>10582184
At that point you're critiquing literature, it doesn't matter how shitty the bible or quran is. They are secondary to what the religion *is* in reality.

>> No.10582204

>>10582200
How do I believe in a higher power
How do I believe in a religion

>> No.10582217

>>10581359
Start with Ecclesiastes then go to the new testament
Take a bunch of shrooms some time
Take a bunch of deliriants some time.

Only the schizophrenic don't harbor doubts.

>> No.10582220

>>10581359
When you finish Exodus read Fear and Trembling.

>> No.10582223

>>10582200
Of course you critique the literature, no one is running around with a copy of ullyses and trying to convert people to the cult of joyce (at least not in mass) , what religions *are* in reality is different interpretations of a few very specific books.

>> No.10582224 [DELETED] 

If explain these digits
>>10582222

>> No.10582240

>>10581359
Nigga...You're going to die
Sounds kinda awful

>> No.10582248

>>10582031
It's true that it could justify any belief, but any belief requires a certain amount of faith. It sounds like you've been exposed to plenty of Christian teaching and while many other Christians would disagree with me I think it can be good in certain cases for one to put some distance between themselves the religion if going to church or reading the Bible isn't helping. Perhaps some time away will change your perceptions, perhaps not. However, the Church and Christ will be here regardless and any true Christian would welcome you back with open arms.

>> No.10582265

>>10582204
I'm a polytheist, my man.

>>10582223
Religions don't have their origin in a specific book usually, Christianity existed without the NT in the beginning. Same with Buddhism, the literature developes afterward the religion is established, and is standardised later in the Bible or the pali canon.

So pointing out flaws in the Bible is pointless, you won't convince anyone with that.

>> No.10582304

>>10582265
>I'm a polytheist, my man.
this is bait

>> No.10582314

After my amatuer theologian phase the best advice I can give is: Familiarize yourself with Buddhist doctrine then approach Christianity as a Buddhist.
Neither the Jews nor the Vedics, nor the Buddhists got the full picture. Nowadays it's not that hard to cobble together the full picture.

>> No.10582336

>>10582153
>Bronze age
Anon lurk /hist/ pls

>> No.10582337

>>10582265
>So pointing out flaws in the Bible is pointless, you won't convince anyone with that.
Utterly ridiculous claim, and the sound of someone who has given up on actual debate. The Bible was, and remains, the foundation for the belief of all christians, saints, and theologians throughout the past 2,000 years. It matters hugely in these kinds of debates. If you want to look purely at the religion itself then what are we left with? What claim, theistic or atheistic, is possible without reference to scripture?
>>10582314
>Nowadays it's not that hard to cobble together the full picture.
I actually burst out laughing when I read this. Thanks for the chuckle, I haven't encountered teen arrogance this extreme in a long time.

>> No.10582346

>>10582336
*Early Roman Period
Got my dates mixed up, used to using that phrase with reference to the Old Testament lol. Still, I would love a true response to my post from the guy I messaged.

>> No.10582350

>>10581359
Go back in time and have your parents baptize you as a baby.

>> No.10582374

>>10582350
They did and I took communion and did confirmation and attended mass till I was 19

>> No.10582433

>>10581359
quran
not even memeing
it gets to the point

>> No.10582452

Something I came up with when I was ~12:
>assuming god exists
>one of the major religions of the worlds has to be correct
>christianity is most plausible
>therefore christianity is true

>> No.10582498

>>10582346
You should read historical works of the early Empire and Christianity to gain an understanding of how the Levant worked culturally at the time.

>> No.10582514

>>10581374
Seconding this. Mushrooms opened me up to the possibility of the divine overnight and I've never felt more contentment in my life. Never loose your skepticism if you make the leap.

>> No.10582522

>>10582452
>one of the major religions of the worlds has to be correct
Seems like a fairly careless assumption to make. Why would that be the case?

>> No.10582526

>>10582522
What kind of a god would never make contact?

>> No.10582532

>>10582053
This is assuming that homosexuality is purely genetic, whereas instead environmental factors could play a significant role (note that environment =/= a choice).

Even if we assume that it is purely genetic, most homosexuals actually do reproduce and have genetic children. Besides that, there are plenty of theories and potential explanations, such as that the traits could be passed recessively as carriers, that the genes coding for homosexuality code for other things as well that could provide potential advantages which "balance out" the negative effects of homosexuality, potential social benefits of homo- or bisexuality, ect.

I mean, a lot of the theories can be found out with a simple Google search, so I'm not sure how anyone who did at least a bit of research could come to the conclusion that the only possible explanation is an apparently pro-gay God.

>> No.10582533

>>10582452
>>10582522
And why would Christianity be the most plausible?

>> No.10582535

>>10581651
this, read The Psychedelic experience then take LSD

>> No.10582538

>>10582053
> why do congenital diseases that prevent people from reproducing exist? They should have gone extinct millions of years ago

please never ever talk about this subject again you massive pseud

>> No.10582544

>>10582522
>>10582522
>>10582533
>bullying a 12 year old

>> No.10582545

>>10582526
Why assume that God exists? Even if he does, what if he's deistic rather than the personal God that would make contact? What if all human religions are false, including the major ones?

>> No.10582574

So if I don't believe in god then I'm a fedora and if I do then I've successfully brainwashed and drugged myself into believing?

>> No.10582578

>>10582574
Agnostics are mean that way.

>> No.10582594

>>10582574
Just become a reverse deist/panentheist and carry on your life with archetypical-ritualistic symbolic space.

>> No.10582699

The point of religion isn't
>lmao god exists

The point is that Humans need to be responsible for them selves with relation to other people.

Understand spiritual paths and how they correlate to a higher sense of being.

>> No.10582714

>>10582544
That's a fair point. Apologies to anon's 12 year-old self.

>> No.10582725

>>10582145
Why do you think autistic people exist if social functioning is one of the most important parts of human society?

>> No.10582753

OP, you will never truly believe in God because those who believe do not do so because they were persueded or learned some facts or some truth which there are none about God.

You simply choose to believe because you want to.

>> No.10582813

>>10582753
Lots of important Christians were persuaded or cajoled into belief. Paul and Augustin for example. It took an act of the Holy Spirit to convince them.

>> No.10582816

>>10582813
why doesn't the holy spirit want to convince me?

>> No.10582959

>>10582813
>>10582816
This exchange is an example of what happens all the time in these religious threads. Its:

1. Non-believer asks a theological question
2. Christian responds with well-intentioned but flimsy argument
3. Non-believer pokes hole in argument
4. Christian mysteriously disappears and a reply is never given

Just look at how many points against Christians have been raised in this thread and have been left unreplied to. It happens every. single. time.

>> No.10582988

>>10582816
Because you don't know what the holy spirit is

>> No.10583004

>>10582816
Maybe it will one day.
>>10582959
Damn dude chill it wasn't even that old of a post.

>> No.10583009

>>10581891
it probably won't help you, but to others it won't matter if you believe or not, they won't see a difference.
>>10582053
>Why do gay people exist?
so that a stupid person can ask questions

>> No.10583017

>>10583004
Not to be rude but that response you gave isn't very satisfactory. Billions live and die without ever being offered the same interaction with God that a handful are supposedly given.

The reason I got angry was because I've seen this trend too many times on /lit/ and yet the Christians here remain as smug as ever.

>> No.10583139

>>10582816
>>10583017
And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

>> No.10583154

>>10581359
>wanting to believe in fairy tales
Oof ouch my bones

>> No.10583164

>>10583017
Many more people have experienced the divine than just theologians who recorded it.

>> No.10583193

>>10583164
But that begs the questions just as much: why some and not others? I understand the concept of the epistemic distance and why God can't get too involved in the world, but then there are many who claim that they have seen and experienced God on a personal level. Why are some afforded this and not others? Why are certain people freed from the struggle of faith and doubt whilst other devout christians have to go on making the leap of faith?
>>10583139
So the Bible predicts that people will deny its enormous and unverified claims of miracles? Okay.

>> No.10583207

>>10583193
He's talking about a specific persons

>> No.10583242

>>10583193
Truly I cannot answer the why. I'm just a shitposter on 4chan. I know we all have unique burdens and lessons to learn from them. Perhaps we must learn truths particular to our singular experience before we are ready and able to accept any piece of a universal truth.

>> No.10584237

is it wrong to from a close relationship with god/a god but not feel a connection to jesus?

>> No.10584478

>>10582088
Because everyone's secretly a little gay

>> No.10584532
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10584532

>All of these anons who want to believe but can't, who just fake it so that they don't sadden their family

Hold me my bros

>> No.10584609

>>10581359
>>10581884
I had similar leanings, I've never believed in a religion and realised, although it would be nice (I could never do an abrahamic one, however), I don't actually need it. Everyone has core assumptions and faith-like things they hold in their minds. They're not established religion, not even religion as is usually considered, but no one is devoid of them. Just alter and assimilate them into your psyche, as you see fit. Try avoid getting caught in the promise of something religion pretends you don't have (you do, even the most de-spooked individual still has the definitions of the medium in which their consciousness inhabits, which are assumptive and faith-like). Recognise that there is little difference between someone believing in a god, and you holding some core assumption or behaviour that dictates some aspect of your mind and life. With that, you may decide to actually follow an established religion. I don't need or want to, but you may, it depends on your mind. To do that, the only thing I can think of is literally indoctrinating yourself. Like "mindfulness", keep the concepts and feelings of that religion at the forefront of your daily experience. Assimilate it, train your brain so that it becomes a part of your psyche, your experience, your worldview. Even if on a rational level you don't believe, it doesn't matter if you've assimilated it. There is little to no difference. Remember that your brain is a device of continuous build-up and not really rational, it is possible to train it to do a number of things. Unrelated to rational thought.

>> No.10584617

>>10584532
I pray for these anons

>> No.10585488

>>10581359
>self-imposed indoctrination

>> No.10586659

>>10581380
This, you haven't gotten to the good parts yet