/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10502769]

Should books only be read in their original language

[Anonymous No.10502771]

>>10502769
Is it bad that I immediately know this dude's name is Scott Steiner?

[Anonymous No.10502774]

No because I don't feel like learning anything other than English.

But I'll read Olde English. Shit's a blast.

Like Hobbes' Leviathan.

[Anonymous No.10502782]

>>10502771
Holla
>>10502774
How do you feel knowing you'll never completely understand the beauty of Dante's rhyming schemes

[Anonymous No.10502783]

I've often wondered more and more about this lately. Translations annoy me endlessly but I'd have to learn so many languages to read the western canon.

[Anonymous No.10502792]

>>10502769
nah, that's dumb

[Anonymous No.10502802]

>>10502769
That is what the author intended, yes.

[Anonymous No.10502804]

>>10502802
why would that matter at all?

[Anonymous No.10502857]

Prose tends to be fine in translation (assuming its a good translation). Poetry on the other hand, is typically not worth being read translated. There are certain exceptions here, where reading a translation is worthwhile (eg. in classic texts, where having a decent level of knowledge about the text will enrich your experience with other texts), but for the most part is not really worth it. Reading translated prose is completely fine though, even if you might be losing out on some aesthetic value, the exact use of language tends to matter a lot less in prose.

[Anonymous No.10503228]

>>10502769
But, what if I read multiple translations? Am I still a brainlet, OP?

[Anonymous No.10503240]

>>10502769
It's obviously the most authentic way to enjoy a work, but you shouldn't deny yourself classics or other shit you might want to read because of your own pretentiousness. Translation is a worthwhile labor and a good translator can make the work even better (this is the exception, not the rule however)

[Anonymous No.10503241]

>>10502769
>arguing sublantics
It's ALL a translation. Either you're translating it in your head while reading it, or another writer is translating it.

[Anonymous No.10503243]

>>10502857
Perhaps in general, but with good writers, the ones worth reading, the use of language is extremely important. A good translator will give you the feeling of it successfully, but it won't be the same experience, obviously, so I'll say that instead of being a matter of prose vs verse, it's a matter of what author you are reading.

[Anonymous No.10503248]

>>10503241
>not thinking in Russian

[Anonymous No.10503255]

If you don't know AT LEAST 3 dead languages AND 5 living languages, get off this board.

[Anonymous No.10503275]

>>10503241
But if a book is a interpretation of an author's experiences, than a translation is a interpretation of that interpretation, meaning it's no longer made up of the original experiences that inspired the work in the first place.

[Anonymous No.10503280]

>>10503241
But if a book is an interpretation of an author's experiences, than a translation is an interpretation of that interpretation based in the translator's experience s, meaning it's no longer made up of the original experiences that inspired the work in the first place.

[Anonymous No.10503282]

>>10502771
THe only reason I opened this dumb thread is to post my Steiner meme

[Anonymous No.10503288]

>>10502774

This guy thinks Leviathan is written in Olde English.

[Anonymous No.10503294]

I learned Latin in highschool, and learned enough to read Virgil's Aeneid, , some Plautus comedies, Metamorphoses and most of Catullus, along with some historically relevant prose, like Caesar and Cicero. I learned all the meter, and was able to read it without needing to translate the words in my head, and only occasionally looking up words. I'm happy to be able to say I've done it, but there's no way I'd do it again with other languages and other works. I also don't remember nearly enough Latin to even revisit these ones.

[Anonymous No.10503347]

>>10503280
Reading a book that's not your mother tongue is in itself an interpretation based on the translator's experience. The only difference is the translator is you.

[Anonymous No.10503358]

>>10502782
not him but idgaf about pretty words in any language. it's the content that matters.

[Anonymous No.10503407]

>>10503358
>Be Dante
>Spend years polishing and refining the Florentine dialect in order to create your own poetic language.
>Write 4720 verses of carefully constructed terza rima, in which sound, rhyme, allegory, syntactic structure, high and low tone are masterfully used.
>700 years later
>loooool yeah bbbbbbro who fucking cares 'bout language (even though that's the fucking point of poetry anyway haha)bro if it's not ennglishhh is not worth reading anyway loool xD

[Anonymous No.10504554]

>>10503282
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFoC3TR5rzI

[Anonymous No.10504628]

>>10502769
This idea is retarded. Take Lolita for example. Nabokov wrote it in both English and Russian. Should those be considered separate works? If you’re not reading poetry or something with a weird style (a la Finnegans Wake) then it doesn’t matter if it is a translation or the original. Also, Cervantes literally brags about Don Quixote being translated to other languages in the book, so the whole “as the author intended” schtick is a meme. Authors want their work to be translated. Anyone who says otherwise is a pseud.

[Anonymous No.10504636]

>>10502769
Nabokov's A Hero of our Time is fantastic, and I have heard Baudelaire's translations of Poe are an improvement

[Anonymous No.10504640]

No, because the Gospel of Michel wouldn't spread.

[Anonymous No.10504652]

>>10503407
Mitre spent 40 years translating it to spanish, it's not the same but it's a worthy alternative if you don't want to learn italian just for one book

[Anonymous No.10504658]

>>10503407
And with that said, Longfellows translation is a delight

[Anonymous No.10504720]

>>10503347
Yes, there always be a "translator" when taking in a piece of art. But when you read a translation, there is now 2 translators, an extra middleman that dilutes the work

[Anonymous No.10504765]

>>10504636
>Baudelaire's translations of Poe are an improvement


Really doubt that

[Anonymous No.10504850]

>>10503407
i don't read poetry for that exact reason
i really don't give a fuck how well you can make words fit together, just like i really don't give a fuck how well you can throw a plate like a frisbee or balance pennies on top of each other. Worthless talents aren't interesting because you're good at them.

[Anonymous No.10504968]

>>10504850
For what othet reason do you read poetry? Might as well read a novel then

[Anonymous No.10506139]

>>10504968
>i don't read poetry for that exact reason

[Anonymous No.10506362]

>>10502774
>content with staying on his island of English
> Reassures himself that translators will always make the right choices

Gotta realize that engrish can only take you so far. Learn 6+ languages to actually understand literature.

[Anonymous No.10506379]

>>10504850
You're a fucking idiot and don't belong here, might as well go to an art board and exclaim how little you care for and understand painting you absolute moron

[Anonymous No.10506428]

>>10506379
If you think the only value in literature is how pretty some words sound together, than you're the real idiot here, friendo.

[Anonymous No.10506448]

>>10506428
Mind numbingly stupid response, there's more to the medium than aesthetics, but to vaguely diminish that aspect is akin to faulting painting for "just putting lines and colors together," it relies entirely on putting words together you ignorant fuck. I don't think this literature stuff is for you

[Anonymous No.10506649]

>>10504554
holy shit its real

memes became reality this day

[Anonymous No.10506674]

>>10504628

I believe he wrote it in English and translated it himself into Russian. It's still a translation and isn't perfect, although Nabokov did his best obviously.

Also, just because authors are happy to be translated doesn't mean they think that translation is equal to their own work. Being translated means you've reached an international audience and are successful, that's why they rejoice in it.

[Anonymous No.10506775]

>>10504628
>then it doesn’t matter if it is a translation or the original.
Fuck off

[Anonymous No.10506825]

>>10502802
>>10502804
>anon doubts the value of author's intent
>in a thread about translation vs original text

If you don't value what the author has to say, then why are you reading the book at all you big dummy.

[Anonymous No.10506892]

Just whenever possible, you'll probably never be able to read EVERY work that interests you in its original language, and it's better to read a translation than to never experience an important work at all. I have found rereading works in their original language almost always helps me appreciate them more and deepens my understanding of them, of course. Depending on how wide the culture/language barrier is a translation may have to omit or change things in such a way that the work becomes its own new product.

[Anonymous No.10506977]

>>10502769
I would rather have some benefit than none, and I can’t justify the time spent to learn 10+ languages well enough that I actually think in them rather than just translating in my head to English while I read.

I already have a reading list that will take 10-15 years to get through as well, so my time could better be spent reading. Also I figure since I write and plan to continue writing only in English, anything that can’t be expressed in the language I write in is pointless to my own creative education.

[Anonymous No.10507394]

>>10502769
Look anybody who is not retarded would agree with these two points.

1. Books are (for the most part) best in their original language.

2. That being said, learning the 10+ languages fluently enough to read the world's best literature (without having to translate them to English in your head, defeating the purpose of not reading a translation) is wildly impractical.

So can we stop the "only read books in the original meme"? Translations are a necessary evil. If you only read books in languages you know - most likely 2 to 3 - you will be missing out on many of the world's best books for no other reason than being a pretentious intellectual fuck.

[Anonymous No.10508176]

>>10502769
I am reading the translation in its original language. Checkmate atheists

[Anonymous No.10508182]

anti-translation shitposting is only for thirdworld (yes that includes France) polyglots with poor aesthetic sensibility yet a need to feel superior to others

also most of them have read less than 200 books

[Anonymous No.10508197]

>>10504628
Lol. Take the beginning of Lolita in English and compare it to any translation.

[Anonymous No.10508256]

What if the translation is better?

[Anonymous No.10508343]

German Nietszche is superior to any translation. It's a fact.

[Anonymous No.10508397]

>>10502802
your favorite author read hundred of translations

[Anonymous No.10508604]

>>10502769
Sure, especially poetry.

[Anonymous No.10510340]

>>10508256
It probably isn't, so I doubt that's a problem you'd have to face very often. It's hard to make a judgment about which is "better" unless you've read both anyway, and people who have would almost always say the original is better.