/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10495702]

Who's stronger : Evola or Guenon?

[Anonymous No.10495804]

Evola emphasised the warrior aspect while Guenon priestly/intellectual

[Anonymous No.10495837]

I don't know who Guenon is so I go with Evola

[Anonymous No.10495851]

>>10495702
Both are needed. I go towards riding the tiger.

[Anonymous No.10495859]

girard

[Anonymous No.10495864]

>>10495702
MEISTER SERRANO

[Anonymous No.10495867]

>>10495702
they’re both extremely fake and gay so whatever makes your anus quiver more, because they’re fake and gay and illegitimate interpretations of all the traditions they espouse

[Anonymous No.10495877]

>>10495867
Any suggestions soyboy?

[Anonymous No.10495883]

>>10495877
Guenon is the definition of a soyboy. Look at him, he wore a fucking bowtie and couldn't even grow a proper moustache

[Anonymous No.10495888]

Guenon because Islam is actually a living tradition that requires less LARPing.

[Anonymous No.10495914]

>>10495877
Yeah:

Mathers, Eckart, Agrippa, Blavatsky, Hall, Massey, Kuhn, Steiner, Levi, Barret, Crowley, Spare, Velikovsky, Plotinus, Plato, Adi Sankara, Zhuangzi, Laozi, Huangbo, Orpheus, Homer, Virgil, Damte, Aquinas, Blake

instead of just fake politically motivated sterile faggotry from sexually frustrated facecels

[Anonymous No.10495925]

>>10495914
Thanks :)

[Anonymous No.10495928]

>>10495877
Böhme, Jung, Spengler, N, Bruno (his akshual works) again people who studied all of these things in depth instead of what amounts to instruction for bourgeoisie reactionary faggots

[Anonymous No.10495956]

>>10495928
>>10495914
>>10495867
>being this assblasted

[Anonymous No.10495959]

>>10495888
>Implying it's not larping being Muslim in the west

[Anonymous No.10495964]

>>10495956
ah this was a very gay, redditesque post, you should think about how animalistic and stupid it makes you look and consider not posting at all for the rest of the month or year. really try to mull over how knee-jerk, reactionary and apelike that post was

[Anonymous No.10495984]

Guénon. Evola fanboys are the worst excuse of a human being I've ever seen. I've actually never read ebola, but goddamn those I know who've read him are just total fucking losers. And I don't go around calling others losers.

[Anonymous No.10495988]

>>10495914
>Crowley
How dare you compare that charlatan with those wise leaders!

[Anonymous No.10496002]

>>10495984
>I've actually never read ebola

[Anonymous No.10496016]

>>10495959
>implying it is

[Anonymous No.10496041]

>>10495804
This. fpbp

[Anonymous No.10496049]

>>10496016
>1000 years ago

It is larping now.

[Anonymous No.10496058]

René

[Anonymous No.10496072]

>>10496049
No, Islam is actually really taking over Europe, it's very different from some neckbeards LARPing to be pagans or something.

Being an early adaptor is not LARPing.

[Anonymous No.10496206]

>>10495964
>bourgeoisie reactionary
a knee-jerk response if I ever saw one

[Anonymous No.10496645]

>>10496072
I once thought like you.

However after 11 years, 4 of which I spent in Madrassas in the middle east, I see it as silly and one of the most transparently false religions around. Mormon tier bs.

Every other Muslim convert I met seemed to have a mental disorder and most seemed to be attracted to it because of it's edginess, lacking in critical thinking skills and emotionally unbalanced.

[Anonymous No.10497102]

>>10496645
It's not about truth, it's about evolutionary fitness of the memeplex.

[Anonymous No.10497109]

Evola could write at least.

[Anonymous No.10497121]

>>10496645
Its not really about muslims converting others en masse but the constant immigration of muslims to Europe that would cause it to become islamic.

[Anonymous No.10497142]

>>10495964
>you should think about how animalistic and stupid it makes you look
ironic desu

[Anonymous No.10497150]

>>10497102
It’s astonishing that evo-psych people can say shit like that without recognizing that who deserves credit for the idea is Marx, not Dawkins.

The whole thing about ‘definite relations of production determining the consciousness of men’ is that at any given time people publish tons of weird ideas, but the ones that become popular or even universal are the result of the specific economic and social conditions of the society at the time. The dominate ideology will always be something which justifies the position of the ruling class, because if that wasn’t the dominate ideology, some other class would come to rule.

People will believe what allows them to make sense of their position in life, and is compatible with how they already understand the world as working.

Why did Darwin’s ideas catch on so quickly in Europe’s higher classes? Because it lent itself to understanding hierarchy as natural and inevitable. Why did Marxism catch on among Europe’s working class? Because it explained how they experienced the world.

I’m not disputing the truth of Darwin, I think that is of course the most accurate way of understanding then diversity of life, but I also recognize that the reason why it caught on quickly in Europe. I’m America, where there is a different system for the justification of political authority and the structure of society, and consequently evolution still hasn’t caught on in much of the country.

[Anonymous No.10497373]

>>10497150
which justification do seppos use?

[Anonymous No.10498181]

>>10496645
>4 years in madrassas in the middle east
Where exactly? I'm not really sure what you expected to get out of that.

[Anonymous No.10499245]

>>10498181
Yemen

People think differently when they are brainwashed

[Anonymous No.10499297]

>>10495702
Plato
stop memeing orientalists

[Anonymous No.10499506]

I think Evola could beat Guenon in a fight, he's got that aristocratic tenacity and daring

[Anonymous No.10499665]

>>10499506
Evola was wheelchair bound

[Anonymous No.10499804]

>>10499297
>greeks
>not orientalists

[Anonymous No.10500783]

>>10499245
Interesting. If you don't mind, could you elaborate on your experiences leading up to and being there? I'm always interested in stories like that, probably because I can't stand instability in my life and hence only travel the beaten path.
I also need inspiration for my writing
Thanks

[Anonymous No.10500792]

>>10495702
Evola

[Anonymous No.10501274]

>>10495702

Evola basically adopted all of Guenon's ideas and then applied them to other stuff. Both are interesting and worth reading, but ultimately Evola is in the shadow of Guenon.

Someone interested in Traditionalism, metaphysics or eastern philosophy would be better off reading Guenon, then the actual eastern texts themselves, and then after that selectively reading the specific works by Evola that they are particularly interested in.

Evola's emphasis on the spiritual warrior over the priestly caste and Guenons disgreement with him on this are emblematic of their wider differences.

Guenon more takes the view that the traditional way is correct and that the priestly/intellectual class and related matters should be of most importance and that even if liberal democracy is anti-traditional/degenerate one can always practice the traditional spiritual path on their own wherever they are and that one's personal spiritual path takes precedence over trivial political matters.

Evola focused more on the warrior class despite them being subservient to the metaphysical/religious in most traditions and as such advocated a much more active invovement in political life and temporal matters generally, including through far-right political movements if needed.

Evola is partially right in that most of the eastern traditions are at their heart hierarchical, anti-egalitarian, and hostile to progressive ideals, a view shared by Guenon. But I feel like he stops short of the whole truth when he takes that lesson and advocates radical action.

The core teaching of most of these traditions is to focus on the transcendent and not the temporal. That doesn't necessarily preclude one from participating in politics, debating the right course of action or related matters but Evola seems to over-emphasize the political and not clearly enough state the primary importance of the metaphysical.

It seems almost as though Evola internalizes a more materialist-like view of linear history rather than the cyclical. A more traditionally-rooted view would be that one should personally always take the right course of action but that the temporal is trivial and a part of Maya, that what seems important to use is in reality insignificant, and that whatever happens the ultimate metaphysical truth/reality will continue existing regardless of the folly of people at one specific place and time. Most of the traditions teach that one reaches the ultimate state by focusing on the Tao/Brahman/Enlightenment/etc which precludes developing an attachment to the temporal.

[Anonymous No.10501769]

>>10500783
Well, I wanted to attain certainty, "the truth", but the more I learnt the more I doubted it and eventually had to accept that I was wrong in the first place.

Islam makes people shittier.

[Anonymous No.10501783]

>>10501769
Also I was heavily influenced by guenon when I decided to move in that direction.

[Anonymous No.10502355]

>>10501769
>>10501783
I meant more about how you ended up in Yemen in the first place. Did you have connections there it did you just randomly fly over? Did the people there accept you? Stuff like that.

[Anonymous No.10502511]

>>10502355
Yes I knew someone who went there before

I lived in a sufi lodge so I mostly interacted with the other 'students'.

[Anonymous No.10503013]

>>10502511
I see. Thanks

[Anonymous No.10503385]

>>10503013
It's actually pretty easy to get there. They have a website and some English speaking student maintaining an email to deal with English speaking applications... Then you just get a visa from your country and go

[Anonymous No.10503393]

>>10495914
which Levi do you mean? There are a lot anon

[Anonymous No.10503594]

>>10495914
>dante
>not a facecel

[Anonymous No.10503643]

Evolalarps and other reactionary traditionalists are a sad case. Romanticizing a romanticized never-existing version of aristocracy. Neetzschum already shat over them, but they were too biased to understand.

[Anonymous No.10503646]

>>10495928
Spengler is too high IQ for alt-right.
>>10495914
Good list from what I can tell.

[Anonymous No.10505461]

>>10495914
Lmao, this guy just listed everyone he's read.

No semblance of anyone in particular having written on perennialism or tradition.

[Anonymous No.10506461]

>>10495702
why the long face

[Anonymous No.10506623]

>>10495702

None are perfect, but Guenon's Reign of Quantity was pretty damn on point and his writing style is so clear it makes piecing his metaphysics together an easy task. I particularly liked how he said man can sink lower than materialism, that being Mechanization and how Psychology/Psychoanalysis are those driving agents of mechanization. He likened Psychology/psycholanalysis to black magic via suggestion and its rather hard to argue that considering its never solved any of societies problems, only exacerbated them and exploited them for profit.

[Anonymous No.10506642]

>>10495914

Manly P hall was great, but he was greatly cucked by American Freemasonry which is a nigger of its former glory, and Even Albert Pike in the 1840's said that. Freemasonry has since been used to further Jewish, Communist and Humanist movements.

I believe in his lecture "Mans orgin and destiny" he said that eventually we all mix together and become one beautiful mud-race. Lost alot of respect for him there, considering he appears to be such a proponent of natural law and tradition which both include racial pride and identity.

[Anonymous No.10506645]

>>10506461
Crown chakra in the atemporal realm of perfect forms, chin chakra in the material plane

Perfectly centered

[Anonymous No.10506651]

>>10495883

>whao look at him hes looks gay XDDDDD
you likely wouldnt be manly enough to live up to his moral expectations traditional man.

[Anonymous No.10506669]

>>10496645
>However after 11 years, 4 of which I spent in Madrassas in the middle east, I see it as silly and one of the most transparently false religions around. Mormon tier bs.
Would like to confirm this too for someone who spent the last two years of elementary school in a Madrasa in a SEA country.

They brought us to an audiovisual room of 32 children nearing the end of the year and played a documentary about the world going to an end. The premise is exactly that the Jews are part of the illuminati which is going to bring humanity closer to apocalypse, sooner or later the verses on quran about the signs of the incoming apocalypse are going to reveal itself in the world more and more(the trigger being the creation of israel and destruction of the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem), then Jesus will descend from heaven to Mecca, the great Imam will also reveal himself to the muslim community of the world(whose lineage could be traced back to Muhammad himself), then the apocalypse will begin, the Ummah with Jesus and the great Imam will combat against the army of Dajjal(anti-christ), and after the victory humanity will end, all dogs and pigs will be killed, and fire will engulf the whole earth.

The "Dajjal" is a very important thing when some of you are interested of the lunacy of those people actually gave in to the indoctrination process to fight for the Islamic State, the apparent sign of the coming of Dajjal being the modern civilization and the immorality and the weakness of the people (weeks after weeks you will be kept in isolation with several other people and were guided in quran studies and were told about the islamic war stories of the medieval age).

[Anonymous No.10506780]

>>10495702
Why does Guenon looks like a bull terrier

[Anonymous No.10506820]

>>10506780
He fucking does lmao

[Anonymous No.10507045]

>>10506642
Why are they such proponents for racial pride and identity?

[Anonymous No.10507727]

>>10506780
>>10506820
holy shit
how did he even get a face like that

[Anonymous No.10508531]

>>10495702
Guenon is a "Deus otiosus" in traditionalism. So Evola.
>>10506780
Shit! I thought I was the only one who had noticed it.
>>10507727
Living in Paris Guenon was a big opiate addict.

[Anonymous No.10508547]

>>10503393
eliphas obviously

[Anonymous No.10508599]

>>10495914
>Blavatsky
>Massey
>Kuhn
>Steiner
>Velikovsky
Is this a fucking joke?

[Anonymous No.10508626]

>>10495859
stop making scapegoats out of Guenon and Evola

[Anonymous No.10508629]

>>10495914
3/4 of those are modernist garbage though

[Anonymous No.10508634]

>>10499665
they are both dead now though

[Anonymous No.10508638]

>>10508599
>Dissing Kuhn
Pleb

[Anonymous No.10508646]

>>10501274
>Guenon more takes the view that the traditional way is correct and that the priestly/intellectual class and related matters should be of most importance and that even if liberal democracy is anti-traditional/degenerate one can always practice the traditional spiritual path on their own wherever they are and that one's personal spiritual path takes precedence over trivial political matters.
Guenon explicitly said that there's no such thing as "personal initiation". you either attach yourself to an unbroken chain of tradition or you are just deluding yourself

Evola is more open about this and acknowledges the possibility of personal initiation for some people born with the right nature, for example in his exploration of buddhism in "the doctrine of awakening"

[Anonymous No.10508652]

>>10506669
sounds like /pol/ but with more brimstone and fire and killing dogs

[Anonymous No.10508654]

>>10495864
e s o t e r i c

[Anonymous No.10508660]

>>10506820

[Anonymous No.10508665]

>>10495914
>crowley
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.10508677]

>>10508665
did crowley as a poet write anything decent? i downloaded a small book from him but it was about eating literal shit and i kind of lost interest in reading more

[Anonymous No.10508713]

>>10508646
He said that, implying he thought he himself was of that nature,but in the end he never found anything and gave up.

[Anonymous No.10508741]

>>10508713
in what book does he give up?

[Anonymous No.10508778]

>>10508638
What a fucking bitch ass lmao. You don't even know that he was talking about Alvin Kuhn, not Thomas Kuhn, kiddo.

[Anonymous No.10508947]

Gooey non because he didn't wholesale slaughter people

[Anonymous No.10508986]

>>10502511
>Yemeni Sufism

That's where you went wrong the Sufi's in Yemen are renowned for quackery. Anything not rooted in Quran and Sunnah is going to be pure quackery. Let me guess your Sufi masters believed they had "special powers" and they prayed to Saints?

[Anonymous No.10509116]

evola is more entertaining to read, guenon seems more serious and autistic

[Anonymous No.10509166]

>>10508713
this is false, he says personal initiation is only option left in Ride the Tiger

[Anonymous No.10509208]

>>10509166
Yes and he never figured out how

[Anonymous No.10509216]

>>10508986
I said I spent time with Egyptians and indians too.

[Anonymous No.10509219]

>>10508741
Ride the tiger

He realized he couldnt find initiation so decided riding the tiger of the Kali yuga, controlled indulgence, was the only option... So nihilism

[Anonymous No.10509263]

>>10509116
>serious and autistic
The Brahmin's lifestyle in a nutshell desu.

[Anonymous No.10509293]

>>10509219
>>10509208
>>10509166
so is ride the tiger just about nihilism? i assumed it would be something like creating a new initiated elite to be able to restart the cycle when dissolution is maximal and we hit rock bottom like Guenon hints at some points

[Anonymous No.10509304]

>>10509216
And were they Sufi as well? Ahl al Sunnah? Or as the more likely case with "Sufi's" Ahl al Bidah?

It was narrated from Mu’aawiyah ibn Abi Sufyaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stood among us and said: “Those who came before you of the people of the Book split into seventy-two sects, and this ummah will split into seventy-three: seventy-two in Hell and one in Paradise, and that is the jamaa’ah (main body of Muslims).”

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) also described them in the following terms: “My ummah will split into seventy-three sects, all of whom will be in Hell except one group.” They said: Who are they, O Messenger of Allaah? He said: “(Those who follow) that which I and my companions follow.”

Were you really a Muslim on the proper Aqeedah or were you like many Guenonite's (unfortunately) who went from Sufi cult to Sufi cult and got burnt out by the insanity of these groups? Tasawwuf is one thing but blatant bidah and shirk is another.

[Anonymous No.10509372]

>>10509304
hasn't the islamic world been cleansed from tradition by the UK and the US pretty quickly? isn't ISIS just a postmodern counterpart of our passive nihilism with their active nihilism? Or are there countries that still maintain relatively traditional structures?

[Anonymous No.10509387]

>>10509116
are you telling me guenon is even more autistic than evola????

[Anonymous No.10509402]

>>10509387
Evola is emotional and is fun to read, he is autistic in putting a million references but i like that as you can see where he is coming from

Guenon is meticulous but he is no fun and he rarely references much of what he says, he is more like preaching to young retards from an older kind wiser guy with no time for bullshit

[Anonymous No.10509438]

>>10509372
>hasn't the islamic world been cleansed from tradition by the UK and the US pretty quickly?

Depends on what you mean by tradition. In a Guenion sense I don't really think that is even a valid concept. I dropped Perennialism a long time ago. The various "traditions" are fundamentally different and contradictory, they are not spokes revolving around Logos or any such perennialist gabilty gook (IMO).

There are many traditions in the Islamic world and most of them are bad. These involve a lot of Sufi innovations after the prophet (SAWS) and the Sahaba (Allah have mercy upon them). Calling upon saints, getting drunk/high, musical "worship", etc..

The UK and US have had no effect that I'm aware of on the core theology of Islam.

>isn't ISIS just a postmodern counterpart of our passive nihilism with their active nihilism?

ISIS are what in Islamic terminology you would call Khawarji. These are a misguided sect the prophet (SAWS) said would plague the world and the Ummah (Muslim community). They are extreme in wanting to attack and kill anyone who disagrees with them and killing innocent civilians and fellow Muslims despite that being one of the most major sins that will guarantee you hell fire. The Ummah has had to deal with this group in various forms from the time of Muhammad (SAWS) until today.

"Allah's Messenger (saws) said: Verily there would arise from my Ummah after me a group (of people) who would recite the Quran, but it would not go beyond their throats, and they would pass clean through their religion just as the arrow passes through the prey, and they would never come back to it. They would be the worst among the creation and the creatures."

>Or are there countries that still maintain relatively traditional structures?

As stated previously there are many traditions which are upheld is the Islamic world that are not rooted in Quran and Sunnah, and therefore are not valid. The only legitimate source of authority for deriving Islamic doctrines and legal rulings are the Quran and Sunnah.

The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said: "Every innovation is misguidance and going astray" Reported by Abu Daawood (no. 4607), at-Tirmidhee (no. 2676) and it is saheeh. Ibn Hajr authenticated it Takhreej Ahaadeeth Ibn ul-Haajib (1/137).

And he (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) also said: "… and every innovation is misguidance and all misguidance is in the Hellfire." Reported by an-Nasaa'ee (1/224) from Jaabir bin Abdullaah and it is saheeh as declared by Shaikh ul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah in Majmoo' ul-Fataawaa (3/58).

[Anonymous No.10509544]

>>10509293
I believe he expanded on the concepts he introduced in Ride the Tiger in his later book The Bow and the Club.

[Anonymous No.10509570]

>>10509544
>>10509293
haven't read any of those, it's just the impression i had about Ride the Tiger from outside and from reading some other of Evola's works

[Anonymous No.10509592]

>>10509402
revolt against the modern world wasn't very emotional

[Anonymous No.10509681]

>>10509592
not sure if emotional was a good description, passionate maybe would fit better. haven't read Revolt so maybe that's a more depressing book, the only books from Evola i've read are his early ones exploring different traditional systems like the buddhist one, the tantric one, the hermetic one and the magic one, maybe he is more disillusioned and autistic on his later, more political works

[Anonymous No.10509692]

>>10509681
i'm fairly certain he is given his attitude of ride the tiger. i'm planning on reading his earlier works, any recommendations??

[Anonymous No.10509699]

>>10509304
I am an Indian born into Islam, grew up in the west and became religious in my teens... I mostly spent my time with naqshbandis before going back to India to find something more substantial, which I didn't find. Before that I had learnt Arabic to a level where I could understand the quran and simple fiqh books. Then I went to Egypt to improve my language skills and try find something there, still no success. After going to Yemen I went back to the western country I live in now, that's when I read guenon and other traditionalists.

[Anonymous No.10509717]

>>10509293
It's the writings of someone who found no way out, so gave into despair, but not the whiny negative kind of despair.

[Anonymous No.10509731]

>>10509304
I just realized you are a wahhabi. Wake up man. There is no way Islam is true in any sense of the word. There is no true aqeedah, it's all bs.

[Anonymous No.10509753]

>>10509692
i'd say the buddhist one "doctrine of awakening" is the more straightforward work, "the yoga of power" went over my head just reading it by itself, lots of interesting stuff but tantra seem like a system using many different symbols which are alien for westerners. The Hermetic Tradition is similar but using a more western system, so even if it's a clusterfuck it's not so alien

Evola always adds a ton of references, so you can always use his books as a start and branch from there to read the primary sources, or find other secondary works on the different components he explores. even if i don't always take Evola completely seriously, i find him a good source, if you can get over his elitist and anti-humanitarian tone i think he is a really good source for these kind of traditions

here's some youtube autist reading extracts from "the doctrine of awakening"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbOgXfMcLoQ

[Anonymous No.10509786]

>>10509717
ok, i guess i had the misconception because when i read "the yoga of power" where he also mentions ridding the tiger it seemed to me to have different implications than anything necessarily pessimistic
>During Kali Yuga, however, the goddess Kali, who was asleep in the previous ages, is now fully awake. I will write at greater length about Kali, a prominent Tantric goddess, in the following pages; for now, let us say that this symbolism implies that during the last age elementary, infernal, and even abyssal forces are untrammeled. The immediate task consists in facing and absorbing these forces, in taking the risk of "riding the tiger," to use a Chinese expression that may best describe this situation, or "to transform the poison into medicine," according to a Tantric expression. Hence the rituals and special practices of what has been named Left-Hand Tantrism, or the Path of the Left Hand (Vama-marga), which despite some problematic aspects (orgies, use of sex, etc.) represents one of the most interesting forms within the trend analyzed in this study.

[Anonymous No.10510196]

>>10509786
Riding the tiger is not nihilistic. It implies a positive grounding in Being. The other guy is just shitposting

[Anonymous No.10510329]

>>10509570
How on earth have you not read Ride the Tiger if you've read other Evola? I can understand skipping some of his work on tantra or something, but Ride the Tiger is pretty much required core for an understanding of his views.

[Anonymous No.10510375]

>>10510329
i'll do it at some point, but i'm more interested in learning about traditions than in the political stuff. also Evola's books are kind of dense, so can't really do it that fast if i want to get something from the readings

also i guess i'll do it in order so
- revolt
- among ruins
- ride the tiger

so lots of stuff pending before that, i'm also reading Guenon and other things at the same time

[Anonymous No.10510420]

>>10510375
Thats true, and his constant references to previous traditions create a lot of homework while you're reading.

Guenon is worthwhile, and I actually wish I would have read Crisis of the Modern World before I touched Evola, so good move there.

[Anonymous No.10510503]

Is it necessary to read Crisis of the Modern World before Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times? From what I've gathered, they both discuss the same topics, but RoQ is more fleshed out. What are the differences between the two?

[Anonymous No.10510722]

>>10509731
>wahhabi

Nice buzz words.

How can pure monotheism without partners be false? How could the universe have arisen out of nothing? Does nothing ever produce something? The universe undoubtedly contains intelligible laws and order. Intelligibility never arises from chaos, and especially not from non existence.

Look at this planet which is the only planet we know of in the universe that has life. Look at how perfectly this planet is suited for life, how the day and night flow one after another, and the seasons manifest themselves in a coherent order.And how God causes water to fall for the sustenance of all life on this planet, and has given man all the materials and goods he needs for his sustenance and enjoyment.

Wake up to the fact that their is only one God and that Muhammad (SAWS) is his final messenger and that you and every other human that has ever live are going to be judged on a day that will last 50,00 years.

“And We created not the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, for mere play.

We created them not except with truth (i.e. to examine and test those who are obedient and those who are disobedient and then reward the obedient ones and punish the disobedient ones), but most of them know not”
>>10509699
OK fair enough. I would encourage you to give the deen another chance. Atheism is an utterly absurd belief system, the qualities of God in Christianity don't match the criteria of an omnipotent God, Hinduism and Buddhism are full of ridiculous conceptions of divinity that are irrational. I really believe that pure tawhid is the most logical conception of what divinity has to be.

God is not a man, stone, animal, statue, the universe its self (pantheism), or any other particular created finite entity or thing. Thus the divine must be above time and space and creation and nothing can be like unto it.

In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
Say: He is Allah, the One!
Allah, the eternally Besought of all!
He begetteth not nor was begotten.
And there is none comparable unto Him.

Anything which does not meet this criteria cannot be considered truly divine.

[Anonymous No.10510734]

>>10495702
1 was Muslim pleb
other was STRONK pagan catholic just like his 6 grillion ancestors

the comparison is clear.

[Anonymous No.10510836]

>>10509699
How can you not be a Hindu when you are an Indian? What nonsense to be you! Indian doctrines, such as Advaita Vedanta, are an amazing and pure metaphysics. I'm sure that many (for example, Guenon) would be jealous of you, since Hinduism is closed to them because of the caste system.

[Anonymous No.10510860]

>>10509438
man, you’re too knowledgeable thank you. i’m new to islam, can you give some props on the sect of Bektashi?

[Anonymous No.10510893]

>>10507045
they’re not he’s fucking retarded and Hall goes into depth about his thoughts on higher vs lower races. Also the idea that masonry was some super secret Germanic gnosis is preposterous, it came out of the shadows of elite courtly councils and cabals of european nobility in the late 1600’s and was always pan-european, globalist, utopian prometheanism. Hitler annihilated them because they could easily have unraveled his occult doctrines and would’ve outted him and and his movement as fraudulent
>>10508599
no why do you think i would joke, Blavatsky, Steiner, Kuhn, Massey all knew what they were talking about. Guenon was immensely jealous of Blavatsky’s influence and access and just made shit up to discredit her, she hated Catholics and the Pope, Monarchs etc and he was a cocksucker so naturally he targeted her. Velikovsky and Massey are correct, it’ll take some time to see it. Steiner was highly intelligent, Kuhn was an intuitive genius. You’re not a part of this world so it doesn’t make sense to you.
>>10508629
no not really you’re bad at counting i think
>>10505461
i don’t think you’ve read them, that’s tens of thousands of pages and i doubt you’ve done any leg work
>>10495988
whiny Christfaggot fuck off, the man was in the know. all the people listed were in the know. I could care less what you or any other skeptic insect thinks about them

[Anonymous No.10510919]

>>10510893
Guenon shitted on teosophism in his books, go and read them, pleb.

[Anonymous No.10511005]

>>10510893

[Anonymous No.10511079]

>>10510860
I wasn't even aware of them until you mentioned them. From the wiki they look like they are knee deep in innovation and have separated from the main body of the Ummah. I understand most westerners are initially attracted to Sufism and esotericism but these groups are called sects for a reason. If you get involved in these groups there's a pretty high possibility you will be doing some weird stuff that is only revealed once your "in the know".

Real teachers of the Sunnah and Hadith will lay the information out plainly for you with no strings attached, no hidden passwords, no paychecks. I would recommend starting with the basics get a Quran, get a biography of the prophet Muhammad (SAWS), buy Sahih Al Bukhari's Hadith book, and I would recommend going to a local masjid and talking to the imam, he can answer all your questions God willing. I would recommend staying away from small sects that have separated from the main body of Muslims.

As regards Sufism also known as Tasawwuf that is more advanced practice that involves self purification and asceticism. There is nothing inherently wrong with that but Sufi groups (especially modern ones) have a tendency to become extreme and engage in bizarre cultish practices. I would avoid Tasawwuf as it is full of imposters and charlatans who do not have a strong grounding in Quran and Sunnah, the foundation of faith. Understand the fundamentals first and then you can get involved in more complex activities, inshallah.

[Anonymous No.10512482]

>>10510503
i found Crisis of the Modern World kind of lacking in depth and analysis, it was for me more like a declaration of intention that really an exposition of his thought. you can read it pretty quickly anyway

RoQ is more in depth, you can read it without Crisis, but Crisis shouldn't take long to read anyway. Perspective on Initiation is also an easier read than RoQ if you want to get to learn what Guenon thought was a real tradition and its grounding

[Anonymous No.10512495]

Evola gives better advice

[Anonymous No.10512533]

>>10499665
Evola fought in WW1

[Anonymous No.10512674]

>>10495928
>>10495914
>>10495867
Perfectly executed bait & catch. Take note, everybody, this is how you do it.

[Anonymous No.10512704]

>>10512495
So be an edge lord faggot. Got it.

[Anonymous No.10512863]

>>10512704
good post, nigger poster

[Anonymous No.10514098]

>>10508646

Yes but that doesn't mean it worthless to study this stuff if you don't have a nearby guru who can initiate you. Obviously the inplication of Guenon's writings are that one should try to find a quality tradition to be initiated into but if that's not readily availle that doesn't mean it's useless to study the eastern texts and to try to learn from them.

Much of the eastern traditions have to do with direct experience and spiritual practices in day-to-day life. One can do their best to live rightly in light of then even in the absence of a teacher. The Vedanta itself that Guenon is so fond of advocates abandoning possessions and becoming a sannyassa which can be done without a teacher.

[Anonymous No.10514157]

>>10514098
yes, Guenon was a bit autistic for some things, but he had good reasons for it, as we can see with all the shit that came from new-agery

he also forced things to fit his mold when they seemed out of place, like implying that Jakob Böhme must have had someone else initiate him, that he couldn't have gotten all that by himself