/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10489771]

Opinions on William Blake? Reading his works I'm pulling away ideas similar to philosophers like Hegel, with Blake's idea of progression through contraries, as well Nietzsche's critique of conventional morality, and also Reason and Energy as a necessary balance similar to the Apollonian and Dionysian balance. Jungian psychoanalysis is influenced by Blake's ideas. I wonder what else can be drawn from his works.

[Anonymous No.10489777]

>>10489771
I love his poetry but I find his nonfiction to be ludicrous and embarrassing. He was a genius when writing in the spirit but I feel he couldn't grasp his own work analytically

[Anonymous No.10489779]

>tfw england produced some of the greatest poets in history
>tfw it is now a grey spiritless void

What happened? Bertrand Russel?

[Anonymous No.10489782]

>>10489779
All the smart puritan free thinkers moved to America, land of the free. Leaving behind the peasant dreggs and flamboyant aristocrats

[Anonymous No.10489785]

>>10489782
>Blake
>puritan

[Anonymous No.10489796]

>>10489782

[Anonymous No.10489799]

Good fucking thread man I was thinking the same thing, hopefully this is up tommorow

[Anonymous No.10489930]

>>10489785
Blake came from a middle class puritan tradition even if he didn't conform to the tradition himself. He was meanwhile an earstwhile Republican and adored the concept of America and its revolution

[Anonymous No.10489936]

>>10489930
>even if he didn't conform to the tradition himself
So we agree that Blake wasn't a puritan then. The rest of your post was a random aside.

[Anonymous No.10489942]

>>10489936
>So we agree that Blake wasn't a puritan then

I don't view the influence of religion in naive terms of identification. His family were literally nonconformists to the Church of England. The Puritan sensibility of his work can not be understated even if he was ideologically heterodox.

[Anonymous No.10489949]

>>10489942
The mental gymnastics shite talking going on in this post is a thing of beauty. You could start your own goalpost relocation business and go pro with it.

[Anonymous No.10489952]

Definitely not my favorite from the era but I can see why people would like him.

[Anonymous No.10489969]

>>10489949
you're missing the point of what he's saying. he's being an autist about it but it isn't that nuanced of an idea

[Anonymous No.10489988]

>>10489969
I understand what he means by the Puritan influence in his sensibility and he's not wrong there but calling him a Puritan outside of that is fairly ridiculous. There was probably a lot of Swedenborgian themed sexual adventuring going on behind closed doors, and a bunch of other oddness. He was both a product of puritanism and the absolute diametric opposite.

[Anonymous No.10490076]

>>10489771
What are you reading from him?

[Anonymous No.10490163]

>>10489771
Where does he stand compared with other literary greats like Homer, Shakespeare, Dante and Milton? Is he right up there with them on the "Mount Rushmore" of literature or a tier or two below?

[Anonymous No.10490172]

>>10489779
IS THERE ANYTHING BERT DIDN'T RUIN?

[Anonymous No.10490196]

Can we all agree that reading his poems stripped of their art is foolish in the extreme? It'd be lile watching a movie with your eyes closed right?

[Anonymous No.10490222]

>>10490196
So he is a comic book artist?

[Anonymous No.10490251]

To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour.

[Anonymous No.10490273]

>>10490196

[Anonymous No.10491039]

>>10489771
"And did those feet in ancient time" is still one of my favourite all time poems.

[Anonymous No.10491066]

>>10490196
I'd love to get a hold of some kind of copy of Songs Of Innocence & Experience. Something that, like, has the prints photocopied. Does such a thing exist?

[Anonymous No.10491107]

>>10491066

in a couple of ways actually. there's this edition which is a nice, small (but allegedly correct size) reproduction of his plates:

http://www.foliosociety.com/book/SOI/songs-of-innocence-and-of-experience

and then there's also the princeton university press editions of each of his illuminated works, of which SOIAE is volume 2:

https://www.amazon.com/Songs-Innocence-Experience-Illuminated-William/dp/0691037906/ref=pd_sbs_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0691037906&pd_rd_r=VZPR8EE268PN4TW5FMD8&pd_rd_w=dBcMl&pd_rd_wg=yaqXv&psc=1&refRID=VZPR8EE268PN4TW5FMD8

[Anonymous No.10491123]

>>10489771

blake was amazing and is one of my favorite poets and artists. like >>10490196 said (but to a lesser extent imo) reading his work as visual art is an incredible experience broaching on essential to its understanding.

he was literally carving word, making poetry into a visual medium. and his subject matter was leagues ahead of philosophy and literature--duality, morality, energy, god and the soul, the power of creation.

and above all, for me at least, he's a blast to read. his work is just beautiful.

>>10490163 he's one of the greatest imo, but probably not as ubiquitous as these guys, nor did his influence on the aesthetic of literature reach as far.

[Anonymous No.10491148]

>>10489771
Don't care for him or his personal views. He's not absolutely terrible as a poet, but his style is too simplistic.

[Anonymous No.10491155]

>>10491148
>but his style is too simplistic.

Pseud101

[Anonymous No.10491168]

>>10491155
just got banned from reddit and like totally agree with this post omg

[Anonymous No.10491177]

>>10491148
This poster has probably only read songs of innocence and experience (and failed to understand them at that); no one who had actually read Blake's prophetic poems would make such an inaccurate, worthless post

[Anonymous No.10491182]

>>10491168
Viewing either complexity or simplicity as a good or bad thing in of itself is an embarrassing attitude. A poet's work should be taken on the grounds of its immanent experience not some silly dissection of elements.

[Anonymous No.10491186]

>>10491177

was gonna say something like this in reference to >>10491148

blake's prophetic works are very intricate

[Anonymous No.10491197]

>>10491107
The Princeton of the songs is an odd thing, since the pages are quite large but the print is still original size. I have the Princeton edition if Jerusalem, found at a used bookshop and it's a thing of beauty.

[Anonymous No.10491225]

>>10491197

was wondering if they'd blown up the plates in songs, as i only have the folio society one i posted. i have the princeton jerusalem though, and yeah--love it.

[Anonymous No.10491226]

>>10491123
>and his subject matter was leagues ahead of philosophy and literature--duality, morality, energy, god and the soul, the power of creation.

But not really. His production technique was innovative, and he is a major English poet, but his ideas can be contextualized in his age. He was very idiosyncratic, but neither a mystic nor genius thinker. His poetry is elaborate satire that has it's place in the context of other 18th century satire.

I'm not saying this to be a pseud. I worship Blake as a poet and a designer. My dissertation is on Blake. I love enthusiastic threads about him on /lit/, but feel the need to keep it a little more grounded.

[Anonymous No.10491238]

>>10491226
>His poetry is elaborate satire that has it's place in the context of other 18th century satire.

This is why I've said the work exceeded the artist. This was his intentions but I feel if one were to actually experience his poetry in anything but the most sincere of terms would be to annihilate all worth in them.

[Anonymous No.10491372]

>>10491226

i feel you. but i'm kinda where >>10491238 is. like maybe blake was trying to create elaborate satire, but he landed on something more magical than that.

[Anonymous No.10491434]

I'm not sure how original or groundbreaking he was in doing so, but what really struck me whilst reading the Songs was the way he organised the poems to often have a 'parallel' of sorts in the other section of the Songs.
I don't know if he was groundbreaking metafictionally in this regard of if that was more or less the norm, but it struck me nevertheless.

[Anonymous No.10491483]

>>10491226
When I think of 18th century satire, I think Shelley and Swift, not Blake. He's certainly critical of society and his times, but isn't he lacking that element of comedy in doing so to really characterise his works as 'satire'?

[Anonymous No.10491525]

>>10491483
It's a very, very black humor imho. Stuff like "So I turned into a sty / and laid me down among the swine" from "I saw a chapel", implying the traditionally "filthy" animal is better than the outwardly beautiful, but morally corrupt Church

[Anonymous No.10491554]

>>10491226
There's an element to it that reaches beyond what can be "contextualized in its age", though - when he titles a poem "A Prophecy", he's not using that as some sort of clever rhetorical device, he means it 100%. The man saw angels and Ghosts of a Flea - whether because of some abnormality in his brain, or actual divine inspiration, the fact can't just be put aside as a footnote.

[Anonymous No.10491574]

>>10491554
He also adored the Bible and his fascination with Revelations in particular is obvious.
His prophecies are clear social critiques in the Vein of the Whore of Babylon

[Anonymous No.10491884]

>>10491525

"i saw a chapel" is actually one of my favorites of his and a good example of >>10491372

yeah, fine, maybe you can contextualize it as a critique of the church. but when i read this:

I saw a chapel all of gold
That none did dare to enter in
And many weeping stood without
Weeping mourning worshipping

I saw a serpent rise between
The white pillars of the door
And he forcd & forcd & forcd
Down the golden hinges tore

And along the pavement sweet
Set with pearls and rubies bright
All his slimy length he drew
Till upon the altar white

Vomiting his poison out
On the bread & on the wine
So I turnd into a sty
And laid me down among the swine

i see and feel something so far beyond social criticism. there is real, divine beauty there. over-contextualizing blake seems to me like calling ulysses a simple remake of the odyssey. like maybe, yeah, but it's so much more.

[Anonymous No.10491890]

>>10489771
I live in the area he wrote most of his works. AMA

[Anonymous No.10491960]

>>10491884
100% this

[Anonymous No.10491980]

>>10491884
Hahahaha

You know what he's writing about don't you? I mean, other than the obvious moral corruption etc. etc.; his cottage and retreat is in the middle of bumfuck nowhere. For the longest time it was a teeny tiny hamlet. When he's on about turning into a sty and laying among the swine, he's talking about the lower citizens of a small village that rich people turned their noses up at; the rich people he would come to revile.

I guess he preferred the company of simple folk.

[Anonymous No.10491988]

>>10491980
>You know what he's writing about don't you?

[Anonymous No.10491997]

>>10491988
Alright, I thought I'd give you some insight into where Blake liked to spend his time and the history of the surrounding area. What an obtuse wanker.