/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10465355]

Why are so many prominent philosophers misogynistic? I'm having a hard time getting into them knowing that they think i'm lesser.

[Anonymous No.10465384]

Desu I don't really care unless it's a central part of their philosophy (like Weininger)

[Anonymous No.10465395]

>>10465355
Just accept it and make due with the facts

[Anonymous No.10465398]

to be fair, most women are more productive, most desired by men, and happiest in gender fitting roles, those roles happen to be less glamours than males, but how is that an issue in the grand scheme of things?

i think it only becomes a problem when women fail to attract men, or at least someone she feels suited to spend her life with... that shouldn't fuck everything up for all girls though

[Anonymous No.10465401]

You don't have to agree with them on everything, just take their arguments and learn from them.

Considering you're on 4chan, this should be fucking obvious and much easier for you to do, but what can you expect from a woman?

[Anonymous No.10465416]

>>10465355
the superiority of man is something you're going to have to just accept if you seriously want to enter into the world of men (aka philosophy)

[Anonymous No.10465424]

Because they're a product of a misogynistic culture

[Anonymous No.10465434]

>>10465424
Are men and women completely equal?

[Anonymous No.10465440]

>>10465398
The death of extended family has created a lot of void in women. The spinsters could care for nephews and grandchildren of their siblings, becoming Godparents to surrogate children, now they are left to their lonely devices.

[Anonymous No.10465444]

>>10465355
>not treating women as precious gifts of the universe beyond reproach is misogyny

[Anonymous No.10465445]

>>10465398
citation needed

[Anonymous No.10465450]

>>10465424
if people are a product of their culture why don't women agree that they are inferior if they are in such a "misogynistic culture"? Isn't it beneficial if they fill the role they were groomed for in said "misogynistic culture"?

[Anonymous No.10465453]

>>10465355
>As a femanon I...

gfy

[Anonymous No.10465455]

>>10465434
Men and women are not identical, but they're of equal value

[Anonymous No.10465460]

>>10465455
I'm not talking in terms of value.

[Anonymous No.10465463]

>>10465434
>>10465434
Equal in what sense? There are biological and neurological differences between the sexes but I would assert they are "equal", yes.

[Anonymous No.10465466]

>>10465445
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUxY_5-N81Q

i'll let my dad argue that for me

[Anonymous No.10465469]

>>10465434
Define equality
How do you put value on someone?
From where do we derive objective human rights?

[Anonymous No.10465477]

Most criticisms of women are criticisms of the social content of women. You can be exemplary, you can be better than "woman" as she has been constructed, which is essentially according to the accidental "model" of the Jeune Fille (which can be sexed male or female). Ie, the classic walking foot patrol of the corporatized big Other.

[Anonymous No.10465487]

>>10465469
>>10465463
In the terms that are claimed by the aforementioned philosophers. Intellectual and otherwise

[Anonymous No.10465495]

>>10465455
It's better a man dies in the field of battle than a woman does.

[Anonymous No.10465513]

>>10465455
word

>>10465355
the same way you're browsing 4chan without getting pissed constantly! You'll get to that point with philosophy as well, just stick to it and it'll be second nature to write the misogyny off for what you know it to be.. misunderstanding, environment, sometimes anger etc.

[Anonymous No.10465525]

>>10465355
It's because you don't understand the background.

Read the OT.

[Anonymous No.10465528]

>>10465466
>yer acktually wROGN xd
Peak of intellectualism c. 2017

[Anonymous No.10465531]

>>10465466
I never said that men and women are the same, but it's false that women fundamentally lack ambition and the desire to make something of their life, create new things or work at the boundaries of what is possible and/or knowable. None of that requires having a "male" personality

[Anonymous No.10465532]

>>10465495
but only because a woman sometimes counts as two!

[Anonymous No.10465537]

>>10465528
>i have no idea how to refute this intellectual argument, i'll just meme and hope it sticks
such a cute boy, you're going places!

[Anonymous No.10465542]

>>10465395
The phrase is "make do" you illiterate fuck

[Anonymous No.10465543]

>>10465532
You just disproved your point.

[Anonymous No.10465547]

>>10465487
Absolutely.

[Anonymous No.10465553]

>>10465531
you asked for a citation about women behind happier in roles that fit their psychology, and i gave you some clip spreading insight into that, there's a lot more to the conversation and you can look at the full speech for more

if we're talking about women in STEM, women in leadership positions... these things are rare and not fitting to be pushed onto the general public, if anything it damages girls because they feel forced to try to fit something that ISN'T them at all

[Anonymous No.10465567]

>>10465537
>bases his argument on two (2) professions
>claims scandinavia has done more than any other region to equalize the sexes
I don't even disagree with him on this topic but he is a hack, people like him because he serves as their echo, not because they learn anything meaningful--hence his exposure after the UT incident.

[Anonymous No.10465578]

>>10465398
>gender fitting roles
Like what? Lay some examples and explain how women arent more happy. That's a shameless over simplification and generalizing statement.

And many people struggle to attract others but many arent based off of finding a career. Are you just basing this information off your own experience? And would you prefer a girl who stays at home, makes no money to a girl who pursues a successful career, affords you nice things and experiences the outside?

This post was written by a man who has never made a girl cum and probably never even held a conversation longer then 10 minutes.

[Anonymous No.10465582]

>>10465567
>claims scandinavia has done more than any other region to equalize the sexes
without qualifying/explaining*
Forgot to clarify

[Anonymous No.10465586]

>>10465567
there's an entire class of his on youtube that delves even deeper into this topic, with numinous sources, historical events, and insights, if you're interested check it out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Xc2_FtpHI

have your opinion about JP as a public intellectual, you cannot deny his knowledge and insight to how humans behave by watching his classes

[Anonymous No.10465589]

>>10465450
It's only beneficial if the role they are forced into is in line with their desires. As you can see from the ensuing women's rights movements many women desired for more than to be housewives and to rear children and risked their lives and social standing to fight for equality. People will be affected by a culture differently when they are the one's who are benefiting from it the most vs being harmed the most by it.

[Anonymous No.10465591]

>>10465543
They can still have the same value on their own

[Anonymous No.10465595]

>>10465398
pretty girl id like to touch her hair and kiss her on the lips

[Sean Goonan No.10465606]

For explanation of gender roles please read my book.

[Anonymous No.10465615]

>>10465578
aren't more happy in what? most women would rather be helping others than themselves, this is the key difference; where a man works to better himself and his family, a women works to try to better all those close to her--specifically her children

western society is trying to force women into positions they are not suited for psychologically... STEM, leadership, aggressive social behavior, so forth... this is destructive to the female psyche-- there's a reason misery is at an all time high for girls (various polls taken over the years)

this isn't saying women shouldn't have a career, not at all-- they should have the right one, fitting for them, instead of feeling like they're lesser because they didn't go into a field everyone is trying to push unto them

i'm a girl.

[Anonymous No.10465616]

>>10465578
>Like what? Lay some examples and explain how women arent more happy.
google it, there are studies which show women's happiness decreasing since the 70s with the rise of female employment and sexual equality.

[Anonymous No.10465624]

>>10465606
Bump goonan

[Anonymous No.10465636]

Dont come to 4cha to discuss this.
Its riddled with anti prog4essives who desire the exact opposite of What the 20th century has worked towards.

If they could replace electricity just to remove woman's rights they would. If they could remove modern medicine so they could lie and say white men are superior to all, they would.

And i see the argument bouncing back and forth in this thread over "who would you save; a man or a woman?"
The answer is both.

[Anonymous No.10465659]

>>10465636
confusing post... you're saying progressivism is a positive to the human condition? i've come to the conclusion that it's destructive, and while great strides have been made to improve the quality of life for all, since the late 00s it has gone too far and we need to fight against it

i have an open mind though, and would love to hear more of your thoughts on the subject

[Anonymous No.10465664]

>>10465615
but why would you include STEM in that argument?

Women do work great in a cooperative environment where men have trouble, and vice versa for competitive environments. I really hate that we're supposed to ignore that now instead of playing to our strengths. Obviously isn't going to apply to everyone but you know what I mean.

[Anonymous No.10465672]

>>10465636
This!!!

[Anonymous No.10465675]

>>10465615
> where a man works to better himself and his family
> a women works to try to better all those close to her--specifically her children

Literally the exact same thing you dingus.

> western society is trying to force women into positions they are not suited for psychologically... STEM, leadership, aggressive social behavior, so forth... this is destructive to the female psyche-- there's a reason misery is at an all time high for girls (various polls taken over the years)

Lmao you know nothing about psychology, please stop. If you're scared of leadership or math don't project those traits onto every woman to deflect blame for your own shortcomings.

[Anonymous No.10465689]

>>10465355
philosophers tend to be lonely incels. They don't like women because they never fuck

[Anonymous No.10465690]

>>10465664
i know what you mean, but i disagree... women to excel men in some areas of the workforce, even in positions that they're not happiest doing as i've observed

however, the question has to be raised: is it worth it? should we sell-out our girls happiness to satisfy a more constructive work-force? should we delay or damage a family unit because women are rushing to meet the demand? i'm not sure

>>10465675
when put into a nutshell it's the same thing, it's different in expression and execution, you know this-- stop trying to nitpick

now you're resorting to personal attacks and mocking my posts instead of contributing to the conversation in a constructive way, move on

[Anonymous No.10465701]

>>10465355
Shut your hole, plant.

[Anonymous No.10465703]

>>10465542
Sorry autocorrect :^)

[Anonymous No.10465707]

>>10465615
1 girl isnt the same as any other girl.

You cant claim you know all about women and you cant say you are an expert because clearly you know nothing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_in_the_Schoolhouse_Door
This was a fight against odds for the right to study.
And another instance wjere a black girl had to stand outside a lecture room, take notes in a hall and eventually graduate despite bigoted people sabotaging her efforts managed to succeed and live her life.

Girls arent getting "pushed" into STEM, i dont know where youre reading that or why you feel like that is a bad thing. But people are going to study what calls to them, and gender segregation in careers is only hindering to social cohesion, and prevents any sort of unity and progress just like racial segregation does.

Also "various polls throughout he years" isnt pinning down the cause of misery regardless of how dubious this sounds . I wouldnt rule out whatever bogus poll you're taking as as fake but it is probably speaking to women upset about the rise of racism in america right after weve had a black president, or the crashing housing makret, unaffordable school tuition and unaffordable healthcare. Not "sociaty wants me to study stem".

And the women who are in stem and are upset, it would be because its a male dominated field and its filled with immature brats who make derogatory comments to women, think being sexist is funny, make inappropriate jokes around women and generally treat women like outcasts in the workplace, you know, shit that has been identified and discussed before mainstream media wih actual women talking about this issue before.

[Anonymous No.10465719]

>>10465355
Because they lived over a hundred fucking years ago

[Anonymous No.10465747]

>>10465707
10/10 would read again

[Anonymous No.10465752]

>>10465659
Ok
Social equality is good
Downfall of racism and the rise of freedom for people who arent just white.
Im sure you think feminism means female supremacy but i assure you it doesnt and youve been tricked. Feminism is women equality and the respect of women.

Weve removed racial segregation, but cops are still shooting unarmed teenagers and arresting students with planted evidence. We still have far to go before any mending can come to the black and Hispanic community.

I thought we were smart enough to know we cant blame our problems on immigrants and poor people. But clearly America and Europe doesnt want to look up at the bankers and the business owners and the lobbyists who throttle rights, healthcare and the working class.

What could possibly be the problem of trying to make a society where a black man can walk down a street at night without being shot or charged with possession of a drug that is legal in a dozen states.

[Anonymous No.10465757]

>>10465707
i've never claimed this! this isn't projection, this is from my studies and the many lectures i've watch that lead me to this conclusion

women needed a lot of rights fought for in the past, i have absolutely no doubt of that-- we're now largely equal, and the push from progressives can be boiled down to trying to replace estrogen with testosterone... you're using a very old activist event to make a point-- in what way shape or form does that have relevance today?

pushed probably isn't the best word to describe this, but the point is that they're being advertised to and influenced to go in pursuit of careers and positions that don't suit them... be it psychologically, biology-- however you want to coin it

it's hard trying to explain all this when from my perspective, you haven't put any previous effort to read into psychology of the human species

women in STEM drop out in droves, check the statistics... and women are defensive in nature, they were only there in the first place to try to make a difference, or prove a point... when they fail, instead of admitting they simply weren't suited to the challenge, they'll cite superficial reasons to gain status among peers

a lot of my thoughts and opinions come from Jordan Peterson and the various books he's cited, where you get you information may be of value if we continue this

[Anonymous No.10465764]

>>10465690
>as ive observed
Ok so you're basing this whole arguement off of anecdotal perspective. You didnt even try to bring up talking to a woman and listening to her perspective. Youve generalised and judged women off of some visual assessment.

Not only are you just plainly lying at this point you're making yourself look bad.

[Anonymous No.10465770]

>>10465752
women have equality, they have respect, i'm honestly shocked you think otherwise... can you please cite where i can read up on this information for a educated source?

i'm not educated in racial issues so i'm not going to comment

[Anonymous No.10465782]

>>10465764
this post might help flesh that out:
>>10465764
additionally, i grew up in a stable family with 2 sisters and a tough as nails mother... i know a lot about the female condition naturally

i'm honestly open to conversation, i don't care if i'm wrong-- i'd like some resources to help me revise my position though, not much to ask

[Anonymous No.10465788]

>>10465782
er this post:
>>10465757

[Anonymous No.10465799]

>>10465690
> when put into a nutshell it's the same thing, it's different in expression and execution, you know this-- stop trying to nitpick

Pick any two people regardless of gender and look at how they express and execute bettering themselves and their family. It's always going to be different.

> now you're resorting to personal attacks and mocking my posts instead of contributing to the conversation in a constructive way, move on

Ya when the conversation is just you spouting unsubstantiated and ignorant bullshit there's not much room for a constructive conversation. You're just simply wrong and lacking in knowledge and experience. Sad.

[Anonymous No.10465810]

>>10465799
watch these lectures and read the statistic & books he cites:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8Xc2_FtpHI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYYJlNbV1OM

this is where i'm coming from, if you have another educated point of view to offer me, please do! i promise i will read it with an open mind

[Anonymous No.10465827]

>>10465450
Because most women don't want to live like that and those that do are too weak to try to impose that lifestyle on the others. Most western cultures haven't been particularly misogynistic for decades either, almost the opposite in some places.

[Anonymous No.10465830]

>>10465770
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/07/how-women-are-harassed-out-of-science/492521/
This is just in STEM, in an educated environment filled with business minded people. Do you have any idea how much further is continues to spiral any worse for women every where else?
Women need to fight twice as hard to be heard over a white man. And a black man needs to shout 4 times as hard to be heard or seen.
And a black woman is purposely hidden and statistically ignored by police, politicians and universities. They are suffering the most in society and its coming to the point where they are systematically threatened by the country they live in.

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/criminal-justice/news/2016/03/16/133438/6-things-you-should-know-about-women-of-color-and-the-criminal-justice-system/

And this is very pertinent for you to read
https://www.forbes.com/sites/janetwburns/2017/12/27/black-women-are-besieged-on-social-media-and-white-apathy-damns-us-all/

[Anonymous No.10465843]

>>10465782
>i'd like more resources to help me revise my position
Go speak to more women.

[Anonymous No.10465849]

>>10465398
jordan peterson pls

[Anonymous No.10465855]

>>10465827

[Anonymous No.10465869]

>>10465810
If you base your entire mind around 2 youtube videos, or rather even a handful of men saying the same thing youve fucked yourself over.

Speak to real women, speak to real people. Listen to BOTH SIDES OF AN ARGUMENT. And stop feeding yourself answers you want to hear.

[Anonymous No.10465871]

>>10465434
I hate this question because it is used as a way to "get off the hook" with treating men and women different in everything/most things or be bias using mental heuristics.
Men and women are not "exactly" the same. No, but they are of equal potential and thus they should be taken with the same serious in all they intend to pursue.
>>10465444
>Implying most philosophers simply gave "constructive criticism" about women and didn't essentialize them as useless or less useful in most things without explicit proof.

[Anonymous No.10465882]

>>10465830
i'm going to finish up dinner and then read all of them, i'll let you know my thoughts when i'm done

>>10465869
not 2 videos, i meant the entire class 26 lectures in total

i have friends, i'm active on twitter and facebook... i've listen to many sides of the argument but i typically only take the word of those who are educated and adults

[Anonymous No.10465898]

>>10465869
OH and Camille Paglia is my fucking girl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxoN4wTrnvs

[Anonymous No.10465900]

>>10465531
>but it's false that women fundamentally lack ambition and the desire to make something of their life, create new things or work at the boundaries of what is possible and/or knowable.

Women have exactly the same ambitions and desires as men, the problem is that they stop doing any of those things when they are 30 to have children; meanwhile men just keep working and don't care about children.

[Anonymous No.10465902]

>>10465616
I have read this but really, are you sure their aren't confounding variables? I'm not even trying to pretend I know everything here, but consider for the moment that women are more expressive these days and like to express their feelings than in the past(where it was often frowned upon in favor of being more passive).
Not only this but they still face bias in many of the pursuits they attempt for being women(by men and other women), that can be very stressful so you can't eliminate that as a cause completely either.

I'm not forcing women to do anything btw, now women have more choices of what they can do with their lives instead of just one thing. This is becoming more of a thing for men too.

[Anonymous No.10465908]

>>10465719
/thread

[Anonymous No.10465924]

>>10465882
An educated man who has lived his life being told women are inferior, and that he is free to do whatever he wishes to them because he is wealthy and powerful is somehow more important, more bearable to hear then the 16 year old girl he molested who didnt even have the chance to complete high school, or even consent to him touching her?

You've basically followed the idea that those in power, those that do the oppressing are more trustworthy then the people that are oppressed asking for help, being betrayed by the system they put theor faith on.

What about the children suffering from molesting priests, youre going to believe the child molester? And the women who Trump physically grabbed without permission, are they lesser? Does it all come down to whoever has the more expensive education and better schooling gets the benefit of the doubt?

[Anonymous No.10465930]

>>10465924
Is this satire? Are you guys concern trolling this young woman?

[Anonymous No.10465936]

>>10465900
You're over simplifying it.
There are women who continue to study with children and desire a career. There are 50 year old women in university.

Youve jumped from making a simplification to an offensive generalizing statement, about both genders!
You dont have the answers, you made half an effort to think and gave up before you started so you went with the "opinion" that 4chan follows.

[Anonymous No.10465945]

>>10465930
Im not trolling, youre just lazy and dont want to challenge any of the ideas youve wanted to believe, so it makes you get upset. The feeling you are getting is really making you think

[Anonymous No.10465951]

>>10465908
You think this would be obvious, the time they lived in women had a distinct role, in rare cases were they more than just that

[Anonymous No.10465963]

>>10465945
You're right, you're dumb as fuck.

[Anonymous No.10465969]

>>10465951
I think anon is just complaining and needs to get over it.
How about she make her own human philosophy if it bothers her so much. OR read Proverbs in the bible or something idk.

[Anonymous No.10465982]

>>10465830
>https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/07/how-women-are-harassed-out-of-science/492521/
>In another course, a different lead professor hand-fed ice cream to a graduate student.

Wow... what sexist pigs. How tragic.

[Anonymous No.10465990]

>>10465450
That's the stupidest argument I've ever heard. Black people in the 50s would not agree that they are inferior to white people and actively fought against their "role" in society, yet I doubt would you argue that they weren't a product of a racist culture.

[Anonymous No.10465995]

>>10465830
>>10465982
> The women we spoke with in that association agreed that conferences, fieldwork, and business travel are the worst. One recalled a male colleague who once said the only reason to go to conferences is to have an affair.

Wow ... what an awful joke that could easily trigger an innocent woman's PTSD. This joke is aggressive and violent. Wow, women today are exactly like blacks back then were in America, except they don't get lynched, but it's almost as bad, definitely. I'd put being a modern white woman in America definitely at about the same level as being a black guy in America in the 1800s.

[Anonymous No.10466016]

>>10465990
hint hint: they were a product of a racist culture: see those same black activist women straightening their hair...
You make a good point btw, that anon you replied to has no idea what he is talking about, for the longest time "women did just accept it"
It was easier to get them to "just accept it" when they weren't as educated. Easiest, when they couldn't even read or right.

[Anonymous No.10466040]

>>10465936
You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to be a brilliant writer, or philosopher, you can't have kids.

Or rather, good luck being a good parent and raising normal and healthy children if you sacrifice your time with them to have a career.

[Anonymous No.10466047]

>>10465830
>https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/07/how-women-are-harassed-out-of-science/492521/
this is a sensational article of anecdotal accounts, this is toxic because it offers no solution besides "men need to stop being sexist / STEM is too much of a boys club and it keeps women out"... this reads to me as a narrative driven article, spreading a sinister message

here's a much better article that has a similar message, only driven by statistics and facts rather than second-account events:
http://voxeu.org/article/why-there-arent-more-women-stem-fields

>Women are just as resilient to negative feedback as men when deciding whether to continue in a field of study, but when faced with additional signals such as an association of the field with masculinity, they appear to become more prone to opt out in response to low grades.

it acknowledges that most women who step into stem get bad grades initially, and one reason they step out is because it is a boys club and they feel out of place to try to improve, but it seeks for solutions to that problem so the minority of girls who actually make decision to go into STEM aren't pushed out when their first batch of grades come back below average, it's not because the people in STEM are sexist

i'm not going to read the race stuff, i really don't care... and all of these articles reek of sensationalism which i don't like in these complicated topics

>>10465924
resources please, i'm not going to take a random anon word for anything, if you want to challenge my views, do it with the works or words of seasoned intellectuals

[Anonymous No.10466056]

>>10465355
>Identifying with your genitals, or any other organs, at all.
This is why you're a whore.

[Anonymous No.10466069]

The average woman is better than the average man in intelligence, happiness, mental health, career potential, everything.

Men tend to be outliers; most retards are men and all geniuses are men.

If I were a feminist I'd be pretty happy about this. Women have 'won'. To acknowledge this isn't woman hating, if anything its man-hating; justifying the male rates of incarceration., suicide, early death etc.

[Anonymous No.10466070]

>>10465752
>Feminism is women equality and the respect of women.

It was then that I knew this post was bait

[Anonymous No.10466083]

>>10466040
Who said writer or philospher,
A Nurse, a business owner, a Teacher or an Artist, or a programmer are career that mothers can become.

And you aren't in the position to know what a good parent is when you're saying it's impossible to have a career and have kids at the same time.
Do you want 1 parent to sit at home with a defeatist attitude saying "I couldn't do it because I had you" over a parent who took night classes and studied for years at a slower pace to get her career going?

You sound like you're just bias towards women trying to live a life beyond 1 aspect. You aren't just a mother and you aren't just a worker.

[Anonymous No.10466088]

>>10466069
I don't know what you are trying to say but it sounds either condescending, uneducated or satirical.

[Anonymous No.10466090]

>>10466069
>average woman is better than the average man The average woman is better than the average man in intelligence, happiness, mental health, career potential, everything.

[Anonymous No.10466093]

>>10466083
selfish, there are quite a few studies conducted that show a better outcome and long-term happiness for children who have a stay-at-home mother

the beauty of women is that they're NOT selfish unless they come from a broken environment that forces them into an unnatural defensive state, so you're projecting your ideas as a man @ women without thinking about the bigger picture

[Anonymous No.10466100]

>>10466070
>>10465752
When you call something bait that doesn't mean everything the post was conveying is false. It' what you do when you concede your lack of education of the topic, and that you have nothing to argue other then that you are upset about what was said, and that you want to just cry about it

[Anonymous No.10466103]

>>10466100
i'm pretty sure you're posting bait, all of your posts offer no resources or statistics that we can view and see if we reach the same conclusion as yourself... where in the world are you getting your information?!

[Anonymous No.10466105]

>>10466100
It's also what you do when you think a post is bait

[Anonymous No.10466109]

>>10466093
>there are quite a few studies
Yet none of them have been posted and if they were they wouldn't shore any correlation to whether a mother is a stay-at-home or career driven.

>the beauty of women
don't project your sexist fascist idealism towards an entire gender. If you want to feel powerful by stripping someone of gender who is supposed to be your equal in marriage you're fucked in the head.

[Anonymous No.10466119]

>>10466109
here's one i personally read:
https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/eric-bettinger-why-stay-home-parents-are-good-older-children

it addresses that women are more likely to resume their careers or otherwise work once a child passes a certain age, and while this doesn't have out-right damaging effects, it can mitigate some really good stuff

there's a lot of other ones, you have access to google as do i, use it!

you seem very angry, i'd refer you to this post:
>>10466103

[Anonymous No.10466129]

>>10465707
> And the women who are in stem and are upset, it would be because its a male dominated field and its filled with immature brats who make derogatory comments to women, think being sexist is funny, make inappropriate jokes around women and generally treat women like outcasts in the workplace, you know, shit that has been identified and discussed before mainstream media wih actual women talking about this issue before.

Women should be at the home. Look at how belligerent women become by just doing some 3 years gender studies "degree".

[Anonymous No.10466135]

>>10466109
> don't project your sexist fascist idealism towards an entire gender.
lol take it easy with the retarded verbiage slut

[Anonymous No.10466143]

>>10466135
hate to be gross, but i should probably point out that talking to this guy has turned me off sexually for at least 3 days

[Anonymous No.10466144]

>>10465578
DISCLAIMER: I am not the man to whom you are replying.

Look at this angry white woman. *kekkles intensely*

I, a white Christian man, am happily wedded to a white housewife. I am lucky that she is willing to be the house mistress because the only women willing to run the house these days are Latinas and Asians. Perhaps had I not met her, I would have bred some half-caste children. Very well! It is not too steep a price to pay if one must sacrifice one's culture to preserve nobler values.

There is a terrifying social disease among these white roasties. I've noticed it even among my own extended family, career women who opted out of having a family and form sentimental attachments to furry pets and pet darkies through their little nonprofits. Pope Francis is quite right that Western countries are undergoing a "demographic winter." These white roasties who are going it alone are a perfect example of such a phenomenon.

Anyhow, I pray that you may repent and turn over a new leaf if you aren't post-menopausal already. Godspeed.

[Anonymous No.10466152]

>>10466103
Why do you need a source, Women aren't a hivemind and no 2 women are the same. You only want a simplified
answer that makes you feel like you know everything but there isn't one.
admit that you won't find a census that confirms your suspicion that wome are unhapy working or happy at home
women aren't a checkbox of personalities and traits for you to fill
in to make it easier for you to comprehend, There is no fucking study that will help
you understand this topic because you can't interview a bilion women, let alone the
millions in America who are mothers and in the workforce. women that desire to pursue
a career are valid and there is no sense in shaming them over their decision to not be defined by 1 thing,
and those that desire to stay at home are also valid in theri desire to make sure their children are raised.

My information is simply that I don't judge wide swaths of peple because I'm afraid of not having an asnwer.
I would rather admit I know nthing then to lie and come up with a generalising statement. Women are different, your bias confirms you don't want women in an equal status as a man because it makes you feel insecure.

[Anonymous No.10466164]

>>10466152
Women are inferior and should be in the home, and not allowed into universities. Case closed.

[Anonymous No.10466166]

>>10466144
oh, maybe it is a woman instead of a man... that's a better image in my head

>>10466152
because if you don't have any resources to share that can help me understand where you're coming from, how do you expect to speak to me?

i don't fucking know you! you could be a 35yo childless female bitter about the world at large, you could have had massive daddy issues, you could be a male from a destructive single-mother family

you're anon, how do you expect to turn anyone in a meaningful away if you can't bring up wide examples, statistics, or highly educated people who share your opinion?

get real!

[Anonymous No.10466185]

>>10466119
You condescension just proves you have a bone to pick with a woman trying to be independent. if you simply want to pass insult go ahead, people with sense understand that Women deserve equal treatment and respect.
Women, people in general aren't defined by 1 aspect, whether it is their career or parenthood. People are complex and are allowed to be more.

Trying to make it sound as though it's detrimental to a child's development for a mother to work for her child's life is simply fucking horrid. it's uneducated, it's oblivious.

An argument isn't a point based thing, you posting a link to some man speaking on the behalf of women doesn't impress me or any of the lurkers here.

Let people be people and stop boxing them in.

[Anonymous No.10466195]

>>10466164
then die alone because nobody wants to be with your abusive ass, unless you want a mail order slave.

but being a 16 year old edgelord on here is the desired look so go ahead and think this si better.

[Anonymous No.10466200]

>>10465355
You..ARE lesser

And post holes

[Anonymous No.10466204]

>>10466195
You sound like you're lonely

[Anonymous No.10466206]

>>10465398
MEW

[Anonymous No.10466225]

>>10466166
>because if you don't have any resources to share that can help me understand where you're coming from, how do you expect to speak to me?

Do you want me to link you a wikiedia page on women? Do you really need a citation on why women are humans and deserve rights or are you just pissing around at this point.

just to have my bases covered
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman

I can tell you who I am but would it matter? would you listen to me as a man in his mid 20's who has witnessed what kind of man that comes on here and endlessly hates on women and minorities because of bullying or an engrossing sense of inferiority and insecurity, or if I was a woman who has experienced abuse and knows first hand just what a world dominated by man is capable of to a woman with no support.

>how do you expect to turn anyone in a meaningful away if you can't bring up wide examples, statistics, or highly educated people who share your opinion?
because I have common sense?
Sigmund Freud was an "educated" wealthy man who belived women were sexually attracted to their fathers, simply because women who were raped by their fathers came out and were dismissed as being whores.

if you trust everything oppressors say you're just blinding yourself to the oppressed. that's why I'm not posting some biased source.

[Anonymous No.10466236]

>>10466204
Just read what you type guy. Do you think someone wants to be with you, someone who openly and aggressively hates them, mocks them and believes should have their rights stripped away. Why would a woman who wasn't coerced or forced into marriage wilingly and voluntarily be in the same room as someone who has his opinions on women stuck in 1920.

I'm not lonely, bro, just fucking get a grip on yourself and stop coming on here.

[Anonymous No.10466250]

>>10466185
i have no qualms with a woman wanting to be independent, the fact you pick the up from any of my post is more evidence to me personally that you're grasping at a boogyman that simply isn't there

>
Trying to make it sound as though it's detrimental to a child's development for a mother to work for her child's life is simply fucking horrid. it's uneducated, it's oblivious.
it's not, another great study:
http://parenthood.library.wisc.edu/Hoffman/Hoffman.html

you might be able to argue that there are no negatives applies to children who don't have a stay at home mother, but you cannot argue that they're missing out on some juicy positives if that's the case

unless you're talking out of your ass, which you are.

>>10466225
women have all the rights a man has in the west, what are they lacking? there's just as many women who despise men as there men who hate women, and that's been the basis of your entire argument...

yes some people are going to be sexist, some racist, you can't change that-- it's not their environment at large; it's the broken homes they come from, the terrible mothers who poke their sons until adulthood, the awful fathers who mistreat and abuse their daughters... again very complicated issue but i'll leave it at that

>common sense
if you have common sense, you would be seeking the true cause of modern-day sexism instead of standing and screaming at the grown tree... you're not mature enough to do that though, are you?

[Anonymous No.10466303]

>>10466185
>An argument isn't a point based thing, you posting a link to some man speaking on the behalf of women doesn't impress me or any of the lurkers here.
oh by the way i posted this:
>>10465898
check her out! read her books, i love her so much

[Anonymous No.10466312]

>>10466250
>i have no qualms with a woman wanting to be independent
cool

>but you cannot argue that they're missing out on some juicy positives if that's the case
a lot of kids are missing out on fucking clean drinking water in flint Michigan but I don't see you going on about that. A lot of kids are raised by single mothers who have to work to LIVE and pay for their child's life.

What "juicy positives" are you going to bring up. and please don't word anything like that ever again.

> what are they lacking?
ok So how many country's are there that are ruled by women, have a ruling class that is just women, brutally oppress and murder any man who tries to have even a single iota of human rights and has their own religion centred around maintaining their oppression over men and boys.
List some, go on.
Women may have rights, yet they have no respect. They are treated as "breeders" or "caretakers for young" they are nothing more then to raise another generation. are you afraid if a woman moves beyond this? do you think it will be damaging to the community or the children? why are you so adamant to force people into tired tropes for life?

Women don't have power, Men have power and they have systematically oppressed women with it. in Countries where women are supposedly equal they still have to deal with harassment from men and teenagers.

>yes some people are going to be sexist, some racist, you can't change that
you literally can change that and it's by educating the rest about what freedom and humanity is. It's by not letting bad influences poison someone into thinking backwards ideas are ok, much like how you think a woman studying to be a nurse while her child goes to school is somehow correlates to the kids happiness(?)

>seeking the true cause of modern-day sexism i
you're the cause. you play devils advocate and you allow this to go on and don't speak out. you chide an argument on the side of a misogynist and think women can all be generalised. You are the issue

[Anonymous No.10466332]

>>10466312
clean drinking water? this has nothing to do with our conversation, this is about sexism and perceived gender power

women don't rule because they're naturally not suited for leadership, some do fine in the role, some seek it, but they are a minority

it's their biology, nothing more, nothing less, i've crossed and cited this topic a lot earlier into the thread

believe it or not, most women don't want power-- you think they do, they really don't.

i seriously encourage you to watch these classes:
>>10465810
start with maps of meaning

read everything by Camille Paglia, watch her lectures, be amazed, watch the theories you've presented her fall apart before your eyes

i'm not going to talk to you anymore if you keep posting anecdotal evidence of systematic sexism... give me a book to read, a study to view... something, anything

[Anonymous No.10466348]

>>10465355
Men did all the hard jobs. Women get praise for just being beautiful while men have to work for it. If you want men to not feel cheated by life you have to give them the respect.

[Anonymous No.10466350]

>soyboys getting BTFO by based femanon
What a time to be alive

[Anonymous No.10466371]

>>10466332
For the first part I"m telling you that there is literally no way there is a perfect scenario for a child to be raised in that has 100% efficiency in that child's development. a child isn't so god damn predictable why can't you realise this. There are strong children being raised in not so convenient scenarios and detrimental lifestyles.

>women don't rule because they're naturally not suited for leadership,
and why is that? you dont' respect them clearly and maybe that's the reason why they aren't suceeding in leadership roles. your media paints women as sex objects, you're told since birth about the gender roles that men and women need to follow. Maybe its your uprising that leads you to this idea.

>it's their biology, nothing more, nothing less, i've crossed and cited this topic a lot earlier into the thread
you haven't read a biology textbook in depth in your life and you know it, whatever you've read you're getting it spoonfed and simplified by tired, insecure boys club armchair psychologists who are scared that their only redeeming quality (a superficial racist one: white man privilege) is being threatened by people who know it's bullshit

>read everything by Camille Paglia
you're telling someone to get al their info from 1 person who speaks against billions of people. it's ridiculous.

Finally, no. I'm not here to convince you, I'm here to convince the lurkers and readers of this thread. Women should have respect and rights. Women are oppressed and claiming there is a consequence for women to be given the same opportunities as a man is just simply false news.

I don't need to continue this either. simply because you've exhausted all your points and they made no sense when actually given further analysis. Maybe when you bother to listen to a girl you'll understand. because you have the comprehension of a sheltered dog.

>>10466350
stay mad, and have a wet day samefag.

[Anonymous No.10466383]

>>10466371
i don't care if you convince others into your, from my point of view, destructive way of thinking, most people will latch to whomever suits their established ideals, so anyone who agrees with you

the fact you think you can change anyone's opinion with a couple paragraphs per post is insane, this is why i've tried to encourage you to provide resources that myself and others can go on to see another point of view

you've failed to do so throughout the thread, you've posted a few sensational articles... do you really think this is going to change anyone's way of thinking?

i don't think you're a 'soyboy', that wasn't me-- i think you grew up without adversity or any real problem, so you're latching onto this idea that you'll grow to be a better person by defending what you see as systemic sexism and racism; the problem is it simply doesn't exist, the various factors at play are numinous, and we wouldn't even touch the surface level

i've given you 2 people to look into, i really hope you do-- they will challenge your viewpoints far better than i can, and if you really want to be a better person and cause a change, you will use that to build a stronger argument

good luck to you

[Anonymous No.10466407]

>>10465355
Why would you care what an author thinks of you? Most of philosophers of the past would probably look down on most men today for not fitting the cultural norms of their own time.

[Anonymous No.10466421]

>>10465871
>Men and women are not "exactly" the same. No, but they are of equal potential

They literally aren't. Are you basing your suggestion on anything besides wishful 20th century thinking?

[Anonymous No.10466430]

>>10465636
>Its riddled with anti prog4essives who desire the exact opposite of What the 20th century has worked towards.

Democracy was a mistake.
Universal suffrage was a mistake.
The welfare state was a slipper slope soon turned mistake.

Progressivism is a fucking meme that is going to bite us in the ass thanks to women continuing to vote like morons, enabling migrants to fuck up economies and also vote like morons. If the west deteriorates, China will gladly sweep it aside and will have no qualms about reverting to borderline medieval social policies once they no longer have to appease militarily superior western trading partners.

The pendulum has swung too far.

[Anonymous No.10466432]

>>10465455
Theoretically. But on the individual level, each individual is not of equal value, and the individuals with the highest value throughout history have typically been men.

[Anonymous No.10466476]

>>10466432
Do you really need to be told why that's the case? Or do you believe that value is predicated on physical strength?

[Anonymous No.10466491]

>>10466476
Value is predicated on productivity. If the table was tilted by men, like I'm assuming your argument is based on, then why didn't women tilt it first?

[Anonymous No.10466495]

>>10466491
If you look at a classroom with equal genders at the 10 to 14 age group you;ll find girls are much better behaved and far more successful then boys due to how the lesson is given.

[Anonymous No.10466504]

>>10466495
What's your point? Do you really expect me to be convinced that the classroom is where productivity on this planet ends? Productivity doesn't happen in the classroom, only outside of it, after the lessons.

[Anonymous No.10466507]

>>10466430
Dude, that bitch is feral. I don't know how she wound up on this site. She probably thinks Trump's the reincarnation of Hitler and is going to round up all mezistos, LGBTQMFEQWIJFQ people and disabled folk and kill them.

She keeps spouting garbage and just wants validation. Don't give her that.

Also, you're right on every point.

[Anonymous No.10466510]

>>10466236
Mad projection yo

I don't hate women in the slightest. I just don't pretend we're equal.

[Anonymous No.10466754]

>>10466421
So you accuse me of my comment being baseless but your only counter argument is: "they literally aren't" and nothing else?
You're joking.
It's not wishful, women can excel at most things as men. Besides, the way you talk seems to be looking at all women and all men as exactly the same. At least recognize the normal distribution when it comes to many of thee variances(including physical strength and body composition). You DO know what it means when we say
"On average", women will favor jobs that are about helping others like medicine and they don't care about the level of compensation. Men care a lot more. The fact is though, that men have always had this cultural pressure to be braid winners so of course pay will be more important to them.

Many aspects of different cultures across time and place had(and still have) different expectations for each gender enforced via operant and classical conditioning.
And I'm not even talking about superficial things like clothing and accessories, even though I still get brainlets arguing against the idea of a guys wearing a skirt/dress. Let's forget about kilts and Roman tunica!
Expectations can drive how people behave Who knew?

[Anonymous No.10466776]

>>10466491
Men tilted the table first because they had muscle and women didn't. Men were able to physically control women for their own ends (either ensuring paternity or trading away women for political/military alliances). Historical subjugation of women is indicative of relative physical rather than mental weakness

[Anonymous No.10466781]

>>10466754
>So you accuse me of my comment being baseless but your only counter argument is: "they literally aren't" and nothing else?

Wasn't there literally a fucking Hitchens meme thread just yesterday saying "a point offered without evidence can be dismissed without evidence"? You brought it up, fucking prove it.

You literally just proved me right. Women behave differently. I don't care if it's because society from thousands/millions of years ago had different expectations of them which continued to today. The point stands that they behave differently, and consequently have different desires and skill sets. That is it. It is completely out of the scope of the question at hand to wonder why they behave that way. It literally doesn't matter.

Your argument is the same softboiled dogshit that has been served up to us in the form of affirmative action for the past few decades: "these groups of people had different expectations/opportunities, and thus have lower capabilities, BUT they are of equal value." Which they absolutely aren't, because regardless of your home life or your income, your test score is your test score.

Maybe women are biologically equal (I've seen the "men are on the extremes of the bell curve" thing mentioned a few times in this thread, and maybe that alone proves that they aren't, but regardless) and maybe it's only cultural/societal expectations made of them changing how they behave...but that literally does nothing except confirm that they do, in fact, behave differently; that they are not, in fact, of equal potential. Whether that potential is made lesser in the womb or the classroom or the university, it does not matter. That is a completely separate question, and the inclusion of it in this discussion just muddies the waters and leads to bullshit quotas and expectations of 50/50 divisions in every "good" field of work/education, which completely belies the reality of the distinct capabilities of the genders.

[Anonymous No.10466864]

>>10466781
>Whether that potential is made lesser in the womb or the classroom or the university, it does not matter

You're not really making sense, to determine if something/someone has potential you need to look at its capacities at a specified point in time. Most people would assume that someone speaking of men and women's potential is talking about limitations created by biology, not socialization

[Anonymous No.10466929]

>>10466040
What about Aristotle?

[Anonymous No.10467081]

>>10466929
You can't be a brilliant female writer or philosopher (or anything) and have kids. Men can because their wives take on responsibility for raising the kids. I'm sure there are a couple exceptions but it almost never works the other way around.

It doesn't have to be this way, social policies (e.g. mandatory maternity and paternity leave) can help undo the damage.

[Anonymous No.10467226]

>>10466781
You assume these differences makes them usually self actualize differently and in completely different ways. That this is usually the case. I am saying that is an exaggeration and often these differences can just mean different way to a similar goal(women often get the most pleasure from sex with a combination of physiological or physical stimulation; men generally only need physical).
Though sometimes it can be a completely different goal(women want to emphasize helping others more) so medicine is an easy first choice. Let's not forget that another woman may also go into engineering either because she doesn't care about helping people as much OR has convinced her self that it is another way of helping others(different means to the same goal in this case)
The case with men and compensation I mentioned proves that gender roles are of high influence there so there is little natural about it.

[Anonymous No.10467397]

>>10465615
Just because you failed or are otherwise incapable of success in a position of worth doesn't mean that everyone else with a vagina will also fail in those positions.
And learn to capitalize you fucking degenerate.

[Anonymous No.10467594]

>>10465398
>>10466206
Shame about MEW, she's 30+ now and she has that
>I used to be transcendently pretty but now I'm just "pretty good"
look about her

It's a shame about women aging. Even the ones who "age well," doesn't matter. Getting older always steals that spark of "holy FUCK, she's gorgeous!" that they all have around 16-21, that special irreducible component of their beauty can't be detached from youth.