Do the ends ever justify the means?

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Anonymous Thu Nov 30 13:34:07 2017 No.10336532 [Reply] [Original]

Do the ends ever justify the means?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 14:34:39 2017 No.10336769 >>10336532 ax is facing the wrong way

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 14:35:42 2017 No.10336776 >>10336769 He's just giving her a good bludgeoning is all.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 14:38:16 2017 No.10336794 >>10336769 It's symbolic for how Raskolnikov is morally stabbing himself in the back.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 14:46:10 2017 No.10336834 Depends on the ends, the means and your ethical framework

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 14:46:41 2017 No.10336838 >>10336769 >Wanting to cut open an old lady and spread blood all over your clothes instead of thumping her in the temple

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 14:50:21 2017 No.10336861 Yes. Getting good grades justifies studying, for example.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 14:53:19 2017 No.10336870 implying there will ever be an end

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 14:53:44 2017 No.10336871 >>10336532 Shooting capitalists to bring in communism will.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 14:54:30 2017 No.10336873 >>10336794 This.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 14:55:03 2017 No.10336876 >>10336769 No. It's common to strike with the back end.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 14:55:52 2017 No.10336880 Not inherently.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:17:15 2017 No.10336989 File: 24 KB, 480x480, 1512018851141.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10336871 >He thinks shooting capitalists will bring in communism

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:22:47 2017 No.10337018 >>10336871 >communist You have to be 18 years old to use this site.

Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:24:57 2017 No.10337027

>>10336532
A parasite grows too cunning, too powerful; dominates its host completely. The host grows too weak, perishes to the horizons of extinction.
The host ignores something minor. The host notices the error far too late, it didn't know of this development among its enemy. It ignored, it was lazy, it was weak.

Then they both meet karma, as is the end and the justification for their actions.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:26:46 2017 No.10337035 >>10337027 wtf are you talking about lol

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:27:55 2017 No.10337039 >>10337035 Actions and developments have consequences. Karma is a truism.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:29:03 2017 No.10337042 >>10336532 >Do the ends ever justify the means? that's not what the book is about though

Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:34:03 2017 No.10337066

>>10337039

sure but whether or not someone acquires karmic debt for an action doesn't seem to answer this question even remotely.

like if a man kills a soon-to-be murderer before he murders ten people, the question isn't "is that man going to face consequences or acquire karmic debt;" the question is whether or not the end (saving ten people) was justified by the means (killing one).

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:38:32 2017 No.10337089 >>10337066 he's a white supremacist and its an allegory for Jews and Whyte people. you fucking idiot liberal faggot

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:40:47 2017 No.10337101 File: 27 KB, 645x429, 09-trolley.w710.h473.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10336532 I don't know you tell me

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:42:31 2017 No.10337114 Raskolnikov is just a /lit/ user who got too full of himself.

Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:43:00 2017 No.10337118

>>10337089
It's the answer I got when asking God why He lets Kikes live.

It's true for practically all parasites and hosts.
There is another path a parasite can take, as there is another path for the host.

The parasite can make itself useful, turning the relationship symbiotic or beneficial; this is the case with our stomach bacteria and specialized cells in general. Whereas the host can exterminate the parasite and gain freedom from it.

I don't see that path available for Jews, but I do see it for other parasites.

Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:45:27 2017 No.10337129

>>10337066
>sure but whether or not someone acquires karmic debt for an action doesn't seem to answer this question even remotely.
The action is justified (it can happen) by the fact that all evil will remove itself by its own rules. If it keeps itself balanced in so far as to not change anything major, it is a test for the victim instead. The failings of the victim therefore justify the evil.

Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:46:21 2017 No.10337134

>>10337118
>It's the answer I got when asking God
fake and gay
>why I think Kikes live.
fixed
>It's true for practically all parasites and hosts.
There is another path a parasite can take, as there is another path for the host.

The parasite can make itself useful, turning the relationship symbiotic or beneficial; this is the case with our stomach bacteria and specialized cells in general. Whereas the host can exterminate the parasite and gain freedom from it.
those wouldn't be parasites idiot
>I don't see that path available for Jews, but I do see it for other parasites.
right because you're a biological racist disguising it with religion and are basically a psychopath and genocidal minded. So a subhuman ape

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:47:26 2017 No.10337138 >>10337134 >those wouldn't be parasites idiot That's the point. Around 20% of our genome is from viruses.

Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:47:49 2017 No.10337140

>>10337089

ok, relax dude.

i was/am treating op's question like a general philosophical question, not like one in the context you're mentioning.

even so, all it seems like you've done is describe the facts of a situation or system as you see it, rather than evaluate the moral quality of an action taken.

in other words, what you've said is something like "both parties did something; both faced consequences," when it seems like the question op's asking calls for an evaluation more like "this party did something immoral, but it was to achieve a good end, so that makes the action morally permissable."

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:49:34 2017 No.10337149 >>10337129 thanks for clarifying what he was saying. i've never. seen a systematic approach like this to op's question. interesting.

Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:53:46 2017 No.10337163

>>10337134
>right because you're a biological racist
Biology is racist. Blacks can't swim well, for example. It's genetic, it is evolution, it isn't evil - merely the effects of generations of choices.
>disguising it with religion
No. Explaining religious dilemma (the existence of kikes) with truth. The jew can only feed on our sins; be it porn, usury or useless wars.
>and are basically a psychopath
Aren't you? http://archive.is/qMDqo
> and genocidal minded.
How do you think we got rid of the mosquitoes? We drain the swamps. If the parasite perishes due to us not sinning, how is it genocide?
>So a subhuman ape
This is what you kikes believe us to be anyway. I believe you are slaves to Mammon, and do its deeds on Earth.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:55:15 2017 No.10337170 holy shit i knew /lit/ was getting weird but what the shit you racist dicks

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 15:57:12 2017 No.10337173 >>10337170 Can you really spit on generations of hard work like that? What a disgusting creature you are.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 16:02:18 2017 No.10337194 >>10337170 don't let the two /pol/autists get to you man

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 16:03:53 2017 No.10337199 >>10337194 It's a woman. >Servantile attitude towards [whoever is in power] >Shaming tactics, ad hominem >Thinking they are important among the anonymous

Anonymous Thu Nov 30 17:22:42 2017 No.10337506

>>10337163
People who unironically think like this belong to a mental asylum.

>lechristian
>the joos ruin everything
>war, oh cruel world
>exploitation, jeebus clingus sabe mi
>surely the joos
>yes
>not my dumbass spreading hate
>the J O O S mom listen to me

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 17:31:46 2017 No.10337542 >>10337506 Not surprising that you offer the same solution as the USSR for this.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 17:34:11 2017 No.10337555 >>10337506 Kvetch for me, love! http://archive.is/gqShr

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 17:34:13 2017 No.10337556 >>10337542 I was going to seriously refute you but then I realized that I’d be fine with sending willfully ignorant fucktards go gulags. I guess the fashy vibes of poltards rubbed off on me, huh

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 17:36:41 2017 No.10337563 >>10337556 >I realized that I’d be fine with sending willfully ignorant fucktards go gulags. Does that include you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPGQ-iB7mcY

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 17:40:34 2017 No.10337587 File: 6 KB, 325x325, c6609fc1cb22cb7c9af03c579d2cb6263472e3e1fbfaf6a3cb5f07805fa8dd2a.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >C&P thread instantly turned to shit

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 18:01:13 2017 No.10337662 >>10336532 I really wish there was more art of famous literature.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 18:51:15 2017 No.10337818 >>10337163 Biology is racist to blacks by making them dumb. The swimming thing is kind of peripheral.

Anonymous Thu Nov 30 20:23:06 2017 No.10338087

>>10337818
Neither the median nor the average complete a whole. I don't think there is a single good swimmer among blacks, but there are smart individuals - they are just far more rare than with other races. This has to do with their aversion of work; for generations, they have avoided labor, physical and mental. This shows. If they selected their hierarchy based on labor and achievements, the sexual selection would prefer smarter individuals over fancier. Not telling them this is sabotaging their evolution for social points.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 21:36:03 2017 No.10338284 >>10336532 The ends are all that matter. The means don't need justification.

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 21:37:28 2017 No.10338290 >>10336532 sometimes. it depends on the means and the ends.

Anonymous Thu Nov 30 21:43:44 2017 No.10338323

>>10337035
if you haven't read the book that OP's picture is from the old woman was a jew who performed "usury", the main character in the book killed her because he justified it with his morality saying he would use it for good and that she accrued her riches through evil actions and she wont use it anyway. Figure the rest out, sometimes jews are called ... what?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 22:46:31 2017 No.10338548 >>10336769 Did you read the book?

>>	Anonymous Thu Nov 30 22:58:58 2017 No.10338592 >>10337818 Why the fuck is this board so fucking racist and shitty lately? I just want to talk about philosophy and books, not all this modern race shit. take that to /pol/

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 02:19:30 2017 No.10339245 >>10336532 do the means ever justify the end?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 02:38:40 2017 No.10339311 >>10337018 when i was in 3rd grade i thought commies were the shit

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 02:39:54 2017 No.10339315 It depends on the context, sometimes killing for the greater good is totally ethical. >>10336871 Thats not how dialectical materialism works >>10337018 >muh gommunism doesnt work

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 02:45:42 2017 No.10339330 >>10336532 this is the most dogshit c&p thread i have seen yet

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 06:18:58 2017 No.10339738 >>10339315 Your greater good means a bleak, ugly and wasted environment where people starve ad wait in lines for food - as much as the bureaucrats deemed necessary for you. You do not see a conflict in here, for you are a fool.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 06:32:29 2017 No.10339773 Raskolnikov had no ends, if he actually had such a grandiose motivation he would be a hero

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 06:54:46 2017 No.10339823 >>10339738 >muh anti-communist propaganda

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 06:56:03 2017 No.10339826 >>10339823 Eastern Europe is not propaganda.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 07:01:50 2017 No.10339839 >>10339826 But the bullshit that happens to every nation is when you say it only has happened to one.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 07:02:44 2017 No.10339841 >>10338548 Where do you think we are?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 07:04:59 2017 No.10339849 >>10337114 Raskolnikov is Bazarov explored more thoroughly.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 07:05:38 2017 No.10339851 >>10339839 I've never seen a beautiful communist country. It's always cement cube spam. Even grass avoided those cities (mold didn't). Both Chinese and Eastern European buildings are prone to fall decades earlier than expected.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 07:06:38 2017 No.10339856 >>10339851 You've never even seen a communist country. >inb4 memes

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 07:08:37 2017 No.10339863 >>10339856 I've been to former countries, and I've seen quite a bit of material.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 07:10:06 2017 No.10339869 >>10339863 You haven't since communism has yet to be achieved. Please, refer to it appropriately.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 07:12:09 2017 No.10339878 >>10339869 >You haven't since communism has yet to be achieved So did the "end" of achieving communism justify attempting it in Eastern Europe, Africa, South America and Asia?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 07:13:55 2017 No.10339885 >>10339878 It would have. Everything has trouble. Saying that "communism" causes people to starve is a bit disingenuous/

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 07:15:02 2017 No.10339890 >>10339869 How can i have seen anti-communist propaganda, if there is nothing to base it on? Why was it bad for me to criticize the policies in those countries, if it wasn't communism?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 07:16:37 2017 No.10339893 >>10339885 It's justifying horrid actions for the greater good that leads there. Aka, what you are attempting to do. In truth, communism (and all materialist utopias) has been tried, and it looks like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z760XNy4VM

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 12:15:38 2017 No.10340777 >>10339330 That’s what you get for allowing jewposting retards on lit

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 12:18:19 2017 No.10340785 >>10339851 What is Budapest you dickmuncher Inb4 blockbuildings in parts where mostly the truly pleb live

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 12:28:27 2017 No.10340817 File: 984 KB, 3180x2088, 1454973737018.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10337101

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 12:29:05 2017 No.10340822 >>10336861 >studying for grades The absolute state of /lit/.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 12:30:33 2017 No.10340826 >>10340785 Yes, who could forget all those beautiful buildings built by the commie regime.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 12:31:45 2017 No.10340833 >>10340826 >What is Stalinist Architecture?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 12:33:56 2017 No.10340842 >>10340822 >studying at all the absolute state of humans

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 12:37:29 2017 No.10340852 >>10340833 > few buildings redeem an entire city

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 12:40:15 2017 No.10340862 >>10340822 This.

Anonymous Fri Dec 1 12:44:27 2017 No.10340877

>>10339893
Cuba is doing well in many aspects, even though America has an immoral economic embargo on it which continues to this day, even though it is condemned by literally all countries in the world except for US and Israel on its yearly UN security resolution.

Communism did amazingly well in Cuba considering they weren't allowed to trade with america.

And yes I do know they get aid from Russia before you raise that point.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 12:46:01 2017 No.10340887 >>10336532 that meme nose on the old lady

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 12:47:21 2017 No.10340895 >>10336871 >>10336989 the utopia is always one more murder away, comrade, why do you hate the people?

Anonymous Fri Dec 1 12:49:01 2017 No.10340899

Of course, and nobody denies this. Our whole society is built upon using means that are not noble in themselves in order to uphold some kind of order.
And almost anyone who think the upholding of our current society is not a noble mean will defend using force to overcome it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 12:49:54 2017 No.10340901 >>10339773 he just wanted to escape NEEThood

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 13:33:31 2017 No.10341063 >>10337170 The assumption that racism is the ultimate evil is a relatively modern conception, one completely out of line with nature.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 15:13:42 2017 No.10341436 >>10340877 >Cuba is doing well in many aspects Well, then it isn't doing communism right. Regarding embargoes, Autocratic Spain and Russia (2001-2013) did well economically as well, without those embargoes. Same might be true for North Korea.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 15:14:51 2017 No.10341439 >>10340822 t. undergrad

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 15:17:44 2017 No.10341450 >>10336532 >Do the ends ever justify the means? NOT LITERATURE, DUMMIES >NOT LITERATURE, DUMMIES NOT LITERATURE, DUMMIES >NOT LITERATURE, DUMMIES NOT LITERATURE, DUMMIES >NOT LITERATURE, DUMMIES

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 15:19:41 2017 No.10341460 >>10341439 post-grad actually

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 15:22:06 2017 No.10341465 >>10341460 t. english lit grad

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 15:22:56 2017 No.10341468 >>10341465 physics actually

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 15:27:55 2017 No.10341481 The end is defined by the means. Look up Ends and Means: an inquiry into the nature of ideals by Huxley. I think it got re edited a few years ago.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 15:53:28 2017 No.10341570 >>10339841 Did you just quote Scrubs to me you fuck?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 15:55:11 2017 No.10341577 Razumikhin is the one and only hero of the book. Raskolnikov is a whiny faggot

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 15:56:01 2017 No.10341581 File: 286 KB, 750x733, c33b9eef9e31824b1546b6e1daa3e02d1556becf.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10341063 >out of line with nature

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 15:56:15 2017 No.10341584 >>10336532 Well, baking a cake might be boring but eating one is nice, so sure.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 15:57:15 2017 No.10341591 >>10340895 marx isn't a utopian though

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 16:30:29 2017 No.10341731 File: 74 KB, 478x600, thumbsupm8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10341577 dont forget Dunya tho

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 16:35:15 2017 No.10341755 >>10341731 dunya is an edgy shitgirl stacy playing the martyr svigralidov is the real hero

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 16:36:30 2017 No.10341760 File: 59 KB, 655x527, pepbrl.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10341755 real hero or an hero

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 16:38:09 2017 No.10341770 File: 48 KB, 900x475, 1503463651203.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10337101

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 16:39:18 2017 No.10341783 File: 764 KB, 640x1136, 1487050032008.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10341760 fuck you

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 16:42:10 2017 No.10341800 File: 49 KB, 310x459, Kierkegaard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] No. But in some instances, the ethical considerations may be suspended altogether in pursuit of a higher purpose.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 17:20:05 2017 No.10341969 >>10341436 >it isn't doing communism right and you're no true scotsman either

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 17:29:13 2017 No.10341993 File: 182 KB, 565x600, 1484847235983.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10341468 >Physics major

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 1 21:24:48 2017 No.10342853 >>10340895 Honestly the marxist utopia seems kind of spooky to me

Anonymous Sat Dec 2 01:50:43 2017 No.10343568
File: 584 KB, 475x637, 2D0860F7-9120-4678-A4F6-7F96750AC102.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10336871
XD comrade! The kulaks deserved it! The left CAN meme! Good to see another comrade of r/communism in this alt-reich, drumpf-worshiping, paid Russian trolling website. Fully automated luxury gay space communism! Sieze the memes of production! There is a spectre haunting /lit/; the spectre of dank communist memes! Take my upvote, good Sir!

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 2 06:14:24 2017 No.10344107 >>10343568 Don't reply to me ever again.

Anonymous Sat Dec 2 06:25:37 2017 No.10344135

Of course, that is why most villains and with "well i would have made the world a perfect place if not for x, y, z... to infinity". Overall blindly following your limited model of understanding instead of constantly adapting to the unknown is a great way to live wholesome life.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 2 06:53:46 2017 No.10344188 >>10336532 >Do the ends ever justify the means? No never.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 2 07:40:57 2017 No.10344320 >>10341591 oh but he still somehow despite all his efforts manages to be one.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 2 08:42:14 2017 No.10344450 >>10337129 >by the fact that all evil will remove itself by its own rules. Can you expand on this please?

Anonymous Sat Dec 2 09:04:45 2017 No.10344495

>>10344450
Bread and circus, barbarian hordes, Soviet Union, Napoleon, revolutions, equality... Is this not apparent to you? Does the mere mention of these things not bring to you their rise and fall? Their goals and their success?

If a guardsman leaves his post, and an enemy comes; what happens? If you kill your offspring, what will happen to you? What happened to Robespierre when the masses realized he had a head too? He got a dose of equality! To be headless like the masses and the king! Henceforth we have been ruled by mere desires, not heads. Industries of all kinds feed on our desires, and we keep feeding them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 2 16:56:56 2017 No.10346123 no

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 2 17:50:07 2017 No.10346329 >>10341800 I like this answer

Anonymous Sun Dec 3 00:04:36 2017 No.10347510

Presuming the ends are contained in the means itself so as to bring their causation is equivalent to presuming the ends are independent events that have a conditional relationship to the independent means.

There is a third position that neither depends on each other and each should justify itself. A contingent but ultimately being from nothing that is attributed it's lack of inherent meaning with a confrontation.

Each being events in themselves to have their essence of nothingness in tact. And only occuring to the virtue of character and medium that allows them to manifest in actuality.

Anonymous Sun Dec 3 06:52:07 2017 No.10348361

>Tried to read Crime and Punishment
>I have a strange inability to remember foreign names
>100 pages in Grogsnolotovnaski and Grogspolotovnaski are having a heated debate over current russian fashion and the author decides to not credit each quotation so I have no idea who is speaking

This is why I bought a kindle. Nobody fucking told me it keeps track of names for you. Now I dont need to keep fucking notes.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 3 07:48:46 2017 No.10348429 >>10348361 man I'm glad I'll never be this stupid you're incapable of understanding great literature and that's a very sad thing

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 3 13:00:24 2017 No.10349425 File: 680 KB, 3000x2181, 8a2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10343568

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 3 13:07:03 2017 No.10349454 >>10336532 depends on the ends and the means

Anonymous Sun Dec 3 13:09:07 2017 No.10349462

Yes, for example, I am a cuckold, but I am also a white nationalist. I believe that whites have contributed more to humanity than any other race, space travel, anti—biotics the list goes on. But when it comes down to it, blacks are just better at fucking. Theres no shame in admitting this. There is no shame in admitting that despite the infinite intellectual and moral superiority of the white race, black cock is just better at pleasing women.

The reason white women are turning from the cause and running to niggers is simply because they are not being sexually satisfied. Can you blame them? If you dont get enough to eat at home youre going to go out to eat. The only way to save the white race from miscegenation is cuckolding. My pure white wife is my angel, the apple of my eye. And I want nothing but the best for her. So every friday she gets to have her fill of big black cock. And our relationship goes on like normal. We love each other, and plan on having a child soon. She also shares my red pilled beliefs.

Monogamy is a tool of the jew. Just give it a chance once. Its exhilarating. Theres something deeply majestic about watching a toned muscular black stud going in and out of a beautiful white woman. Try it once.

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/lit/ - Literature