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/lit/ - Literature


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10324534 No.10324534 [Reply] [Original]

How can people watch this tacky shit? Also where does theater belong? Here or /tv/?

>> No.10324544

>>10324534
Reminder that Michelle Obama called that the greatest piece of art ever produced

>> No.10324550

>>10324534
>How can people watch this tacky shit?
People tend to find tacky shit more palatable in an already ridiculous form like a musical.
>Also where does theater belong?
Musical theater is generally /mu/, though I doubt a ballet discussion would amount to much there. Straight plays tend to go here. Something like Hamilton also gets brought up on /his/ from time to time.

>> No.10324563
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10324563

>>10324534
>Never seen or heard or cared about Hamilton
>normies mock and make derisive comments towards me because of it

I just hate musicals okay

>> No.10324597

>>10324563
I feel the same way but about black people (not musicals)

>> No.10324598

It affirms the worldview of the ruling class.

>> No.10324603
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10324603

"Hey anon, did you see my Hamilton playbill on instagram? Later I'm going to go home and watch Trevor Noah so I can keep up to date on political developments. He is funny and informative. Let me tell you about the time I got caught in the rain at Occupy, and ran naked with dwarves at Burning Man. Give me a second, I need to post a snarky comment to reddit with someone I'm arguing with."

>> No.10324612

>>10324534
I don't understand what's your problem.

>> No.10324617

>>10324563
>not liking musicals
What are you, a faggot?

>> No.10324618

>>10324544
I sincerely mean this in the least offensive, most objective way possible: Michelle Obama is a dumb nigger.

>> No.10324631

>>10324618
Barack is smart though. He hid is patricianess when he was president, but the college letters he sent discussing literature were great

>> No.10324640

>>10324631
Wasn't there an article ab out how he currently enjoys Franzen? It seems that law school will make a pleb of even the greatest men.

>> No.10324643

>>10324617
This

>> No.10324651

>>10324640
I haven't read that, but here's Barack on TS Eliot:

'I haven’t read “The Waste Land” for a year, and I never did bother to check all the footnotes. But I will hazard these statements—Eliot contains the same ecstatic vision which runs from Münzer to Yeats. However, he retains a grounding in the social reality/order of his time.

Facing what he perceives as a choice between ecstatic chaos and lifeless mechanistic order, he accedes to maintaining a separation of asexual purity and brutal sexual reality. And he wears a stoical face before this. Read his essay on Tradition and the Individual Talent, as well as Four Quartets, when he’s less concerned with depicting moribund Europe, to catch a sense of what I speak.

Remember how I said there’s a certain kind of conservatism which I respect more than bourgeois liberalism—Eliot is of this type. Of course, the dichotomy he maintains is reactionary, but it’s due to a deep fatalism, not ignorance. (Counter him with Yeats or Pound, who, arising from the same milieu, opted to support Hitler and Mussolini.)

And this fatalism is born out of the relation between fertility and death, which I touched on in my last letter—life feeds on itself. A fatalism I share with the western tradition at times. You seem surprised at Eliot’s irreconcilable ambivalence; don’t you share this ambivalence yourself, Alex?'

>> No.10324677

>>10324544
Reminder that Michelle Obama is an ape, and an ape's opinion on art should never regarded with anything other than hilarity at the ape's attempt

>> No.10324678

>>10324651
>Obama name-dropping Thomas Müntzer
Damn...

>> No.10324705 [DELETED] 

>>10324678
>>10324651
This is a nigger hate thread, cucks.
Only post comment like these >>10324677
>>10324618
etc. That's called redpill

>> No.10324717

>>10324705

t. buttblasted redditor pretending to be /pol/

>> No.10324723

>>10324717
>t. enraged feminist

>> No.10325061
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10325061

>>10324723
>>t. enraged feminist

>> No.10327044

>>10324603
How do we defeat the middlebrow?

>> No.10327104

>>10324534

Hamilton is the type of trash that makes me embarrassed to be an american. Like people always point to something like walmart arranging soda cans into an american flag as tacky, but at least that shit has no pretense about its tackyness. This trite garbage of gay nigger rapping about our founding fathers is much worse in my eyes since it is pretentious in the truest sense of the word. Its history for people who hate history. Its a school house rock cartoon, but instead of for children, its for grown adults who are too retarded to actually learn anything unless its a focus group, diverse, and hip mush for them to consume. I look at this in the same way I can only imagine a scholar of religion looks at christian rock.

>> No.10327108

>>10324603

>*post a John Oliver quote with a gif of a sassy black woman being dismissive

>> No.10327115

>>10324705
You've been doing this shit with your friends for months now, you probably don't even know who you are anymore.

>> No.10327148

>>10327104
>implies you are a scholar of history
I doubtest that

>> No.10327165

Did you just watch Curb Your Enthusiasm, OP?

>> No.10327176

>>10327104
How can people watch it and not think of the epic rap battles of history youtube channel? It's like the sort of embarrassing educational rap videos that your substitute put on when your real teacher was out sick. I can't take how bad it is

>> No.10327213
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10327213

>>10327176
I like Hamilton for the same reason I like ERB. It's chocolate and peanut butter, entertainment and history (or in ERB's case, sometimes history but mostly pop culture references).

>> No.10327509

>>10327104
While I agree, in a sense, sometimes people don't have the time to devote a lifetime of study to a particular subject. And, while I dislike Hamilton, there can be good things that come from a sort of "pop-history" so to speak.

Much of my issue with Hamilton is he's been turned into some sort of minority SJW Socialist icon because that's what Lin-Manuel's gay ass parades himself around as. Hamilton most certainly was not.

>> No.10327570

>>10327509
I don't know much about US history. How does the character diverge from the person?

>> No.10327776

>>10327509
So that's worth seeing an overpriced broadway musical over a free youtube documentary? I can learn the broad strokes around the history of anything in about an hour.

>> No.10327792

>>10327570
Well for starters he was an unabashed elitist who liked big banks, mistrusted the masses, called for a monarchal presidency, and wanted a Senate that served for life.

Hell, that black lady professor at Harvard was quoted saying, "If the cast were white do you really think this thing would be getting the praise it's getting?"

It's just not an accurate historical portrait. Miranda picked Hamilton because he was a founding father who came to America as an "immigrant." He literally wrote it to capitalize on the issue of the day and introduce his own political commentary. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against artists doing that. In fact, I'm for it. The problem is that it's received alarmingly little criticism. The bigger problem is we all know why.

>> No.10327815

>>10327776
Sure, YOU can. God knows not everyone is as well versed and cultured and a learned man such as yourself.

Soccer mom or children or grandparents or whomever likes going to the theater as a special date night or whatever. People who traditionally wouldn't sit up at 2 am watching some YouTube doc on Alexander Hamilton.

Un truth, historically, you and I are the weird ones. Theater has been how many of the masses initially learned about things since time immemorial.

The goal with any sort of pop history is to get people to go home and become interested in the subject and hopefully do more research and learning on their own. Same with any statue in a public place. Same with any art really.

>> No.10327828

>>10327815
>same with any art really
I agree with your premise, but not your conclusion.

>> No.10327852

I'll admit, I still don't quite understand how people take Hamilton seriously. I've seen it, and it is a parody of '90s children's television. It is literally like watching one of those shows where a bunch of mixed race kids all come together harmoniously to teach us about history through the engaging magic of rapping. I also don't understand how it's made people more sympathetic to Hamilton. He does not come off well, in my opinion.

>> No.10327866

>>10327570

Hamilton was a wannabe aristocrat and America literally has the bill of right to safe guard against his tyrannical bullshit to the point that he actively fought against including them in our constitution. I know this is paranoid of me, but this comes across as some sort of new world order tier shilling of more and more centralized authority of elitist who "know whats good for you" under the mask of "DUDE DIVERSITY LMAO!" so you cant criticize it at all. A very cynicle and useful idiot type of production that looks at millennial normies who are basically cartoon characters from a bud light commercial at this point and sells them 1984, but paints it over with smiling brown people dancing so they think "whoa! this looks great!" It jumps beyond simple bad history and goes right into weirdo political manipulation

>> No.10327895

>>10327866
>Hamilton was a wannabe aristocrat
It's funny, because I've liked Hamilton for years for that exact reason, and it's genuinely hilarious watching people say they support him when they don't realize that he really did want to create an aristocratic order in the US centered around industry and trade

>> No.10327915

>>10327828
Yeah I didn't mean to take it that far. I'd like to take that back, if I could.

>> No.10327924

Imagine needing to write Jefferson and believing that "rowdy asshole" is a logical portrayal.

>> No.10327944

>>10327509

I agree with the idea that pop history isnt always bad and can be great for kids or adults to introduce them to something, or boil something down ect. But Hamilton is just political shilling disguised as bad history which is disguised as good history

>> No.10328029

>>10327924

Do they really do this just because Jefferson was his ideological rival, so they make him into the bad guy?

>> No.10328103
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10328103

>>10328029
>post yfw you realize the following are actual quotes from an article in the actual magazine, The Atlantic.

>> No.10328110
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10328110

>>10328103

>> No.10328117
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10328117

>>10328110

>> No.10328122
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10328122

>>10328117

>> No.10328129

>>10328117
>>10328122

holy fucking shit, this is a real life /pol/ strawman

>> No.10328137

>>10328110
Jesus christ. That book is so big that that's now the common conception people have of Jefferson.

>Hamilton is the 99%
The pro-business crypto-monarchist who hated "the mob" is somehow the proto Bernie Sanders

>> No.10328146

>>10324597
you've never seen or heard a black person? Where do you live, Iceland?

>> No.10328215

>>10328029
It's the most off-base caricature I've ever seen. He's like one of those african warlords who are trying imitate european opulence, with a bright purple suit and a walking cane. It's fucking weird.

>> No.10328253

>>10324534
It's fun

>> No.10328670
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10328670

>be Jefferson
>think all men are created equal and that every man should be free
>own slaves but know it's immoral; grapple with it until you conclude that the issue is too big for you to take on by yourself
>routinely champion the rights of the common folk during your political career
>prevent a new aristocracy from forming in America, making sure that it truly is a land where all men are given an equality of opportunity
>pass laws that ban the importation of slaves

>200 years after you die retards who think they're smart because they watch Colbert will say you should be expunged from history because you didn't hold modern ideas about feminism and """diversity""" and will hold up the man you fought hard to keep aristocracy and elitism out of your new nation as a hero because a sassy gay Mexican wrote a play about him where he's portrayed as a quippy rapper and dancer
>mfw

>> No.10328722
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10328722

>>10328670
Still not as bad as what's been done to Francis Scott Key

>Key publicly criticized slavery's cruelties, so much that after his death a newspaper editorial stated "So actively hostile was he to the peculiar institution that he was called 'The Nigger Lawyer' .... because he often volunteered to defend the downtrodden sons and daughters of Africa. Mr. Key convinced me that slavery was wrong—radically wrong."[20]
>Mostly in the 1830s, Key manumitted (set free) seven slaves, one of whom (Clem Johnson) continued to work for him for wages as his farm's foreman, supervising several slaves.[16]

>> No.10329036

>>10328137
>The pro-business crypto-monarchist who hated "the mob" is somehow the proto Bernie Sanders
He also had a massive boner for Mass manufacture and industrialization.

>> No.10329041

>>10328670
>>own slaves but know it's immoral; grapple with it until you conclude that the issue is too big for you to take on by yourself
Yo he raped his slaves. There is no more ambiguity about that.

>> No.10329188

>>10324534
Epic rap battles of history for neoliberal fags and gynocratic managerial hangers on

>> No.10329247

>>10329041
He had a relationship with a slave he inherited from his wife's family who was 1/8 black who also happened to be his sister-in-law and look a lot like his deceased wife. She also traveled with him to Europe where she lived as a free woman but decided to come back with Jefferson on the condition that all of the children they had together would be born free whites, which they were. There's plenty of ambiguity. It's drenched in ambiguity.

>> No.10329534

>>10324618
>>10324677
Back to /pol/. Now.

>> No.10329537

>>10327213
That episode of ERB was unironically good

>> No.10329558

>>10324651
>And this fatalism is born out of the relation between fertility and death, which I touched on in my last letter—life feeds on itself. A fatalism I share with the western tradition at times.
cold as ice

>> No.10329579

>>10329041
Please stop making bad posts

>> No.10329613

>>10328670
Except that never happened /pol/-kun. Jefferson was depicted the way he was in the play because of the way he wrote, his personifciation was based off of his letters. Maybe you should actually watch or read the play before coming to such conclusions?

>> No.10329628

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24SSXc89Fw4

Don't break his heart, /lit/.

>> No.10329641

>American's can't even compete with when Aussies do it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDvtwXSEJVA

>> No.10329645

>>10329628
Reminds me of that gay kid from that Curb Your Enthusiasm episode
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYVK_OqyUzk

>> No.10329658

>>10324563
My first time visiting NYC (age 15ish) I suggested to my mom that we see a broadway show. She said "musicals are opera for poor people."

>> No.10329664

>>10329613
Jefferson was an autist who spoke 7 languages and stayed in his room all day. Presenting him as a wine, women, and song dandy is literally the opposite of the truth

>> No.10329670

>>10329645
Yeah that's what I thought when I first saw him too lmao. Also he's Young Sheldon. Too cute to hate.

>> No.10329677

>>10324534
broadway is inherently shite that treats itself like its not the corniest dogshit to ever call itself entertainment

>> No.10329679

>>10324618
Well her school lunch program was shit ill give you that

>> No.10329738
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10329738

>>10324631
>Barack is smart though
>>10324651
>cliches in poor prose
Everyone has seen this letter already. Everything in it is either easy or patently false.

>> No.10329741

>>10329664
This, he couldn't even deliver most of his own addresses due to shyness.

>> No.10329747

>>10328670
>>10328722
Kek. Well, justice Taney freed every single one of his slaves. His reward was the removal of a racist, evil statue.

>> No.10329756

>>10327104
I feel the same. If it makes you feel any better, the composer of it is pretty much the platonic Form of the rootless cosmopolitan and isn't American at all.

>> No.10329812

>>10329534
>tfw the Obongos will always be niggers

>> No.10329981

>>10329658
Your mom is a smart woman.

>> No.10330066

>>10324534
Confession: I love musicals, have memorized all of Hamilton and Avenue Q's songs, and a big dream of mine is to act in a musical as a lead role. Roast me soyboys

>> No.10330092

>>10330066
yikes

>> No.10330109

>>10329537
ERB quality is pretty closely proportional to the quality of the characters they pick for the episode.

>>10329738
I am 100% positive that Barrack Obama is smarter than any one person who ever posted on 4chan.

>> No.10330112

>>10324534
It's pleasant enough. It'll be forgotten in a decade or so. What do you want, it's a fucking rap musical.

>> No.10330135

>>10330112
>What do you want
the creator to swallow a gun

>> No.10330392
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10330392

>grew up loving alexander hamilton
>defended him all the time back n the days when the only people who even knew he existed were me, treasury nerds, and retarded libertarians who thought he was literally satan
>when the dude made his first rap about hamilton like our years before the musical was written (this eventually became the opening song) I ripped it from youtube and stuck it on my ipod because I thought it was funny
>tfw he has been co-opted by morons who have never read anything by him and would disagree with it if they had
some of the songs are pretty catchy though

>> No.10330402
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10330402

>>10330109
>I am 100% positive
>I

>> No.10330413

>>10330109
>t. has never met Obama

You probably think he's intelligent because he went to Harvard

>> No.10330433

>>10330413
You've met him anon? Tell us about it

>> No.10330453
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10330453

>>10328117
>Jefferson, he concludes, will soon have no place in American history
Yeah, the guy who wrote the thing that Americans jerk off to the most will surely be forgotten.

>> No.10330457

>>10330433
I haven't met him either, but I think it's pretty fucking silly to judge a person's intelligence on the basis of their projected image on a screen.

>> No.10330474

>>10330109
>I am 100% positive that Barrack Obama is smarter than any one person who ever posted on 4chan.

I think Barack Obama is smart but I don't think that statement is true. There are a lot of smart / highly autistic dudes that have posted on 4chan.

Sure they might not have social intelligence/awareness...

>> No.10330602

>>10330457
People call Trump a genius all the time.

>> No.10330686

>>10329664
So you are mad the musical doesn't represent the reality when it is not trying to?

>> No.10331844

It's pretty entertaining desu. Although libs probably wouldn't like him if they really knew about how he impacted Finance (muh occupy)

also, I watched it because this qt liked it

>> No.10332125

>>10329613

Its pretty clear you've watched or read behind the scenes shit from the play while never actually reading anything historical about Jefferson. He was very quite and kept to himself and was big into philsophy, so showing him as a showboat and loud mouth is just fucking retarded to anyone with any sort of understanding of history

>> No.10332132
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10332132

>>10330686

>I dont like this musical because of its deliberately historically inaccurate portrayals of historical figures
>THEY ARE ACCURATE TO HISTORY!
>no they arent
>S-SO WHAT! IT WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE ACCURATE TO HISTORY!

>> No.10332230

>>10324534
Listened to the Soundtrack, liked it. Not a fan of media glorifying the US Founding Fathers, but it was a tight concept album, that told a pretty good story, using rap conventions in a clever way.
Watched about five minutes of the stage musical online, couldn't stand to watch anymore, as it was too fucking boring.

>> No.10332273
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10332273

>>10332230
>Not a fan of media glorifying the US Founding Fathers

>> No.10333124

>>10332230
this desu
musicals are often enough very repetitive and formulaic with their songwriting, I quite liked this one
can't stand Lin Manuel's works other than this, though

>> No.10333155

>>10332273
I hate em. Don't know who they are. But I hate em.

>> No.10333162

>>10332273
Are those the chapo chaps?

>> No.10333529
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10333529

>>10324534
Wow anon, what a hot take. Your contrarianism is definitely warranted and not fucking stupid or unnecessary at all.

>> No.10333538

>>10333529
You sound like all the vapid journalists I follow on Twitter

>> No.10333981

>>10333162
yes

>> No.10333993

>>10333529
>wow buzzword, what a buzzword, Your buzzword is definitely warranted and not fucking stupid or unnecessary at all
unfortunately I've been trained to look for semantic accuracy
could you explain what you said without using contemporary jargon?

>> No.10335293
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10335293

>>10324534
Theatre belongs on /lit/ more than /tv/, not all plays are televised but all plays were initially written and to be read.

Never seen Hamilton so I can't have an opinion on it but I'm a sucker for musicals (the good ones) but most stage musicals are in some way tacky. Most theatres will show musicals significantly more than actual plays because it brings in the largest amount of revenue. Les Miserables still opens to sold out audience but barely anyone has read the book; Sister Act is playing in the UK with a cast of has-beens from singing competition programmes, etc etc. It's something that's here to stay. There is a literal Shrek The Musical. There was a Lord of the Rings Musical in London that was one of the most expensive stage productions of all time.

La La Land was good. One day I will write a Ben-Hur musical.

>> No.10335297

>>10329658
> for poor people
> New York City
> she didn't see the ticket prices

Just a reminder, opera is actually cheaper.

>> No.10335302

>>10327104
Lin Manuel Miranda's music for Moana was fucking GOAT though, unironically listen to it every day also would fuck a qt polynesian grill

>> No.10335304

>>10327165
> Larry David and Lin-Manuel literally wrestle in the office over where to sit before returning to their previous discussion
> Larry fell asleep twice during Hamilton

Had me in stitches, my dude. Hope season 9 isn't the last season.

>> No.10335387

>>10330066
>Avenue Q
I actually found that fun, sad to think that some Broadway audiences might actually be triggered by it nowadays.

>> No.10336333

>>10324603
You just posted a snarky comment here, what's the difference?