Politics/economics starter pack

[Anonymous No.10308583]

So I just got blasted the other day in a political discussion and I felt pathetic. I feel like I want to give myself the resources needed to form an educated opinion on politics and how a society should be run, but I haven't read much to give me a foundation.

I've been recommended:
>Francis Fukuyama's Origins of Political Order
>Francis Fukuyama's Political Order and Political Decay
for starting out in politics, and
>Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt
for economics.

What kind of a foundation will this build me and what are the key steps to go on further? I'm planning on reading Marx, Rand and probably Hayek later on, but I feel like I want to get into some philosophy first.

What do you think? Are these the right books to start with, what will they give me and could you recommend me some further reading on the subject?

[Anonymous No.10308586]

That's a good reading list of you want to be a dumb "everything will work out fine in the end" liberal

[Anonymous No.10308589]

>>10308586
Could you recommend me some books that could provide me with some contrasting views and why are they good?

[Anonymous No.10308618]

>Polical philosophy
Aristotle, Agamben, Foucault, Rousseau, Hobbes, Arendt, Burke, Gramsci.
>Economics
Learn some mathematics and get an actual textbook.

[Anonymous No.10308621]

Read:

Vilfredo Pareto - The Mind and Society
Gaetano Mosca - The Ruling Class
Robert Michels - Political Parties
James Burnham - The Managerial Revolution
Bertrand de Jouvenel - On Power

This is the basic literature for someone who doesn't want to be illiterate in political science.

[Anonymous No.10308623]

Aristotle - Politics
Cicero - On The Republic, On The Laws, On Duties
Augustine - City of God against the Pagans
Machiavelli - The Prince, Discourses on Livy
Hobbes - Leviathan
Rousseau - The Social Contract
Locke - Two Essays on Government
Burke - Reflections on the revolution in France
Clausewitz - On War
Schmitt - The Concept of the Political
Agamben - Homo Sacer
Aron - Peace & War
Kissinger - Diplomacy
Morgenthau - Politics Among Nations
Waltz - Man, The State, And War
Keohane & Nye - Power and Interdependence

Read those Fukuyama books too, but do know that Fukuyama embarrassed himself with his work "The end of history and the last man" so people will meme about him being bad.

[Anonymous No.10308634]

[Anonymous No.10308640]

[Anonymous No.10308644]

>>10308618
>>10308621
>>10308623
>>10308634
>>10308640
allright these are a lot of books, anyone have the energy to tell me a little about what these particular ones will provide me?
>>10308623
this is the list i recognize the most ones from

[Anonymous No.10308673]

>>10308623
>t. someone who hasn't read it

[Anonymous No.10308684]

>>10308644
People are listing a lot of works of political philosophy which are definitely worth reading, but if you're crunched for time you honestly don't need to read shit like Aristotle to get a general grasp of politics. The fukuyama books are a good starting point. Acemoglu and Robinson's Why Nations Fail provides a decent overview of how political institutions contribute to economic development. Also don't read Rand it's not worth the time

[Anonymous No.10308707]

How rich countries became rich and why poor countries stay poor. - Erik Reinert.

[Anonymous No.10308752]

>>10308583
I've recently finished Origins of Political Order by Fukuyama and I'm convinced he isn't a dumbass

I need to read the end of history, he seems to still be defending it somewhat in video lectures(although with modifications because of this new research in his own words).

[Anonymous No.10308757]

>No mention of Thucydides.
Shit thread.

[Anonymous No.10308784]

>>10308583
You got schooled in a political discussion and your first inclination was to turn to ... a jap lackey of neocon jews? That would have been understandable a decade ago but it seems rather odd today. If you want a foundational understanding of the people whose interests your political system revolves around and serves your entry-level book should be the Israeli Lobby by Mersheimer and Walt. If you don't understand the ABCs of cui bono don't waste your time with the rest. Learn about how your nation's elite are jews and realize that your political system serves their interests above all others and the rest will follow, including a more refined set of ideals.

[Anonymous No.10308798]

>>10308784

[Anonymous No.10308825]

>On Politics: A History of Political Thought From Herodotus to the Present by Alan Ryan (Read this and you won't need to read all of the shit pre-1800)
Although this guy >>10308586 won't like it, nor most of these:
>The Origin of Wealth: Evolution, Complexity, And the Radical Remaking of Economics
>Main Currents of Marxism: The Founders, the Golden Age, the Breakdown by Leszek Kołakowski
>The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
>Political Economy: An Introductory Text by Phelps, Edmund S.
>Applied Economics: Thinking Beyond Stage One
>Carl Menger, Bastiat, Bertrand de Jouvenel
>The Matthew Effect: How Advantage Begets Further Advantage
>The Making of Modern Economics: The Lives and Ideas of the Great Thinkers
>Marxism: Philosophy and Economics
>The Politically Incorrect Guide to Socialism
>The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression
>The Theory of Social Democracy
>The Quest for Cosmic Justice
>The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion
>Areopagitica
>Thomas Paine
>Max Weber, specifically: The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism
>Carl Schmitt
>Schumpeter
>Mises
>Alain de Benoist
>John Stuart Mill

[Anonymous No.10308855]

>>10308825
>The Ethics of Liberty
>The Global City: New York, London, Tokyo
>Ancient Complex Societies
>World Order: Reflections on the Character of Nations and the Course of History
>Totalitarianism and Political Religion: An Intellectual History
>Revolutionary Ideas: An Intellectual History of the French Revolution from the Rights of Man to Robespierre
>The Judgment of the Nations
>The Ancient Economy
>The Cunning Of Unreason
>Contemporary Political Philosophy
>Tax Progressivity and Income Inequality
>In Pursuit of Wealth: The Moral Case for Finance
>The Positive Theory of Capital
>Defending The Undefendable
>Pluralism
>War Before Civilization: The Myth of the Peaceful Savage
>The Great Leveler: Violence and the History of Inequality from the Stone Age to the Twenty-First Century
>Shakedown Socialism: Unions, Pitchforks, Collective Greed, The Fallacy of Economic Equality, and other Optical Illusions of "Redistributive Justice"
>Death by Government
>Global Economic History: A Very Short Introduction
>Fools, Frauds and Firebrands: Thinkers of the New Left
>The Collapse of Complex Societies
>The Problem of Political Authority: An Examination of the Right to Coerce and the Duty to Obey

[Anonymous No.10308866]

>>10308684
cool. I'll look into that too.
>>10308752
Sweet!
>>10308784
>>>>
>>10308825
>>10308855
That's a lot of books.On Politics sounds good though

[Anonymous No.10308888]

>>10308855
>>10308825
Pick and choose.
I read these for fun.

Oh, why not read:
>Fire in the Minds of Men
>The Menace of the Herd: Or, Procrustes at Large
>On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century
>Parallel Lives
>Inventing the Individual: The Origins of Western Liberalism
>After Tamerlane: The Global History of Empire Since 1405
>The Inheritance of Rome: Illuminating the Dark Ages, 400-1000
>The Myth of Primitivism

I dunno; let someone refine and filter these lists.

[Anonymous No.10308901]

>>10308866
On Politics, Main Currents of Marxism, and, Political Economy: An Introductory Text.
Are the ones you should probably read. There might be better books than the one by Edmund S Phelps. But that's the one I've read.

[Anonymous No.10309171]

>>10308901
Cheers. I'll look into it, thanks.

[Anonymous No.10309376]

>>10308583

Fukuyama is a decent introduction to the matter. But keep in mind most scholars do not regard him as an up to date source and some even disregard its work.

[Anonymous No.10309389]

Ideas have Consequences by Richard Weaver.

Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell.

Plato's republic.

Discipline and Punish by Foucalt.

That should get you somewhere.

[Anonymous No.10309391]

Every book by Ann Coulter. Thatll give you some ammo.

[Anonymous No.10310067]

>>10308888
>>Fire in the Minds of Men

>>Inventing the Individual: The Origins of Western Liberalism

I read a bit of these two. Very interesting stuff.

[Anonymous No.10310498]

to all of you who has read a bunch of political literature - how do you approach politics where you live? Do you feel you can navigate the political landscape, do you understand what's happening and why? What kind of perspective do you have on shifts in political discourse, like how Europe and the US are embracing nationalism?

[Anonymous No.10310563]

>>10310498
It boils down to the JQ. Once you understand how jewish influence shapes sociopolitical events, you will gain jedi powers for breaking this stuff down. Jewish internationalists are attempting to turn white nations into multicultural free trade zones; it is a natural and healthy reaction for whites to band together in the face of that to protect their identity and territory.

[Anonymous No.10310607]

>>10310563
I'm going to give some of my money that I intended to buy christmas presents with (to give to my white family, supporting white local businesses, supporting christian traditions) and instead give it to charities helping refugees, preferrably leftist charities with open border policies. I'll give away at least half of my budget that I intended to spend on christmas presents, and I'll do it tomorrow, just to make you happy. I'm doing it all for you buddy. That's my christmas present to you, take care and enjoy the fact that you inspired me to give to charities!

[Anonymous No.10310665]

>>10310607
This is par for the course white virtue-signaling, not impressed. You have been told your whole life that your own group is bad and the reason for others' misfortune, and a moral system has been raised wherein you are seen as righteous for assisting out-groups over your own. I wouldn't expect you to behave otherwise until you are actually able to grasp why you are acting in such a way.

[Anonymous No.10310674]

>>10310665
>t. 57% amerimutt

[Anonymous No.10310675]

Read this anon. Rather short but comprehensive.

[Anonymous No.10310755]

There are three big names in economics:

Adam Smith, "The Wealth of Nations"
Summary: The wealthy people make a country great.

Karl Marx, "Das Kapital"
Summary: The working-class make a country great.

Keynes, "The General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money"
Summary: The middle-class make a country great.

Keynes was right, of course.

[Anonymous No.10311404]

>>10310755
they were all right, faggot. Marx esp.

[Anonymous No.10311442]

>>10310755
ask: cui bono?

keynesism allows the controllers of a democracy to run up huge debts for immediate benefits for themselves that people later (not themselves) will have to pay

marxism allows a group to overthrow another group and take power

adam smith just talked about a supply/demand curve that is inescapable. literally just reporting the data of what was observable in nature.

[Anonymous No.10311645]

>>10308583
http://www.takeoverworld.info/Grand_Chessboard.pdf

[Anonymous No.10311745]

>>10308644
Some of these books are more to the point than others, and some make more profound points than others.

There are some you can throw out like On War. It's a good book, but its like 600 pages of describing why it doesn't make sense to attack across a river. However it makes good points like "war is a continuation of politics." Most of this is contained in the first chapters.

I've read Machiavelli, and he makes some decent points. It's a really short book; you could read it in a day if you really tried. It's also somewhat easy to read since he teaches with examples instead of necessarily abstract theory.

Hobbes's Leviathan is a masterpiece of political theory. You can't ignore it, even if you disagree with it.

I have never read Locke's Two Treatises on Government, but if you want to understand the ideals upon which the U.S. Government was founded you have to read it.

If you want to understand how to be a faggot, just throw out everything except for Rousseau.

[Anonymous No.10311766]

>>10311745
there is very little you can disagree ith hobbes on unless the person happens to be an idiot

locke and rouasseau are fags that lived in essentially their mother's basements and complained that life isnt fair

for politics I find reading biographies on figures like kolgomorov, napoleon, deng, tend to get to the heart of modern politics much faster than reading gay faggots from geneva that desperately try to hide their aims

[Anonymous No.10311814]

Scrap Fukuyama.

You should read Thomas Sowell, Thomas Carlyle, Ludwig von Mises, Hans-Herman Hoppe, Erik von K-L, Mencius Moldbug, Eugen Böhm von Bawerk, and Nick Land.

[Anonymous No.10311817]

>>10311766
You're right. It's usually politicians who have an understanding of politics. Occasionally you do see someone like Socrates or Hegel, who's students or schools of thought go on to create their own forms of government, to varying degrees of success.

[Anonymous No.10311819]

>>10311814
>the eternal libertarian strikes again

[Anonymous No.10311821]

>>10308707

I'd have him read Hive Mind and Richard Lynn's works.

[Anonymous No.10311822]

Just read Capital (all three volumes) and Althusser. You'll know where to move from there.

>>10311814
Ignore this grade-schooler.

[Anonymous No.10311832]

>>10308583
>getting meme'd into Fukuyama
He's okay, but he's nothing spectacular. For the modern liberal outlook he should be fine. Zizek, Chomsky, Arendt, for some disparate modern views. For historical perspectives unironically buy this: https://broadviewpress.com/product/the-broadview-anthology-of-social-and-political-thought/

[Anonymous No.10311835]

>>10311822
I think I just vomited in my mouth

[Anonymous No.10311838]

>>10311835
choke on it bourgeois

[Anonymous No.10311840]

>>10310755

>economics

>no Mises

>no Manger

>no Eugen Böhm von Bawerk

>Keynes was right

>"Dude, scooping a bucket of water out of a lake and throwing it back in somewhere else makes the lake bigger lmao"

[Anonymous No.10311846]

>>10311822

>grade-schooler

>says the Marxist

Bitch please.

[Anonymous No.10311847]

>>10310755
if you think capital is about the class struggle, dunno what to do with you. It's most important lessons are on the nature of the commodity and of the contradiction between production and relations of production. Re-read it.

>>10311442
Smith was reporting *interpretations* of what was observable in *society*. To call 18th century Western European states 'Nature' is outlandish. He did, however, do okay in laying out the ideology of early capitalism. But that's in no way nature.

[Anonymous No.10311850]

>>10311846
>arguing with academics on a graphic novel forum

[Anonymous No.10311855]

>>10311838
DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY CLASS!?

[Anonymous No.10311875]

>>10311855
embarassing lmbo

[Anonymous No.10311878]

>>10311850

>arguing with a stupid fucking nigger

[Anonymous No.10311889]

>>10311817
socrates is a very rare figure in human history.

most philosophers are gay nerds fighting on orldstar tier

>>10311814
no reason to read thomas s. he is literally an affirmative action case.

I like the rest. mises is kind of gay, but eh.

>>10311832
>gay nerds fighting

>>10311847
the northern european frame for trade has become the defacto malthusian environment

clearly people that have trouble reading cannot into markets

I'd like to hear a good reason that invalidates the rule of markets. there is no method to increase the productivity of africans or goats other than slavery

goats don't invalidate markets

[Anonymous No.10311894]

>>10311889
oh yeah, so you haven't read Capital then. Probably shouldn't critique works you'd struggle to read a paragraph of, then. Also, sounds like some personal issues with that racist angst. Trouble making friends irl, too?

[Anonymous No.10311896]

>>10311889

>no reason to read thomas s. he is literally an affirmative action case.

Nigger WAT? He's one of the few libertarians that doesn't go full retard on immigration.

[Anonymous No.10311900]

>>10311896
that doesnt take a genius

>>10311894
I read it. it is starve your people 101. move to vene. if you like communism so much you faggot

[Anonymous No.10311904]

>>10311900
stick to capitalism, boy. it's more your speed.

[Anonymous No.10311907]

>>10311904
tell me the labor theory value solution to the traveling salesman problem

[Anonymous No.10311913]

>>10311907
ask Ricardo. Marx wasn't a labor theorist, as the first section of Capital makes abundantly clear. Labor value (socially necessary labor time) only forms the absolute minimum of valuation. Fetishism is the belief that the commodity has a rational concept to determine its value-- such as labor theory, supply-demand, use-value, etc.--, when in reality the commodity is determined completely by exchange value, which is arbitrary. Assuming LTV is fetishism, which Marx opposes.

[Anonymous No.10311917]

>>10311913
so the basis of your economic system cant solve economic problems, and you dont have a response, and to give a coherent response you'll need to discard the basis of your economic system

interdasting

[Anonymous No.10311922]

>>10308583
Basic Economics - Thomas Sowell
Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind - Shunryu Suzuki

[Anonymous No.10311936]

>>10311900

So most mainstream libertarians are literally retarded?

[Anonymous No.10311940]

>>10311936
depends

the unspoken bugaboo for most libertarians is that crime such as being accessory to murder should be immediately punished by death for all involved parties, involved parties in this case include the person that let him into the country, and gave him food stamps

of course, this solves the immigration problem

[Anonymous No.10311967]

>>10311917
If you honestly read my comment and that's your actual response, again: it looks like Marxian economics are a bit over your head. stick with capitalism, it won't require thought.

[Anonymous No.10312055]

>>10311967
if you are using price curves you are using capitalism as described by smith

if you believe in the confiscation of production so that the state sets allocation and or prices, you dony believe in price components of value

so answer my question you stupid faggy sociology undergrad

the book you reccomended is called capital. dorles it describe how to even allocate capital?

[Anonymous No.10312113]

>>10308621
Wouldn't Burnham's Machiavellians give you a good primer on almost all those texts

[Anonymous No.10312126]

>>10311913
Seems like you recognize the importance of the markets, but all the market socialist theories rest on logical fallacies.

[Anonymous No.10312152]

>>10310755
Throw some Mises in there at least, I think the holistic approach engenders criticisms for all those macroeconomic theories

[Anonymous No.10312244]

this is a charteable thread, I'd do it myself had not photoshop cucked me

[Anonymous No.10312706]

>>10308586
Or you could just be a disgusting fascist prick.

[Anonymous No.10312712]

>>10310755
>Keynes was right, of course.
Except he wasn't, which is why people have started to reject him over the past 30-40 years now.

Idiot.

[Anonymous No.10312719]

The Road to Serfdom by Hayek.

[Anonymous No.10313347]

>>10312244
I can make this happen
t. OP

[Anonymous No.10313708]

jesus christ how do I sort all this

[Anonymous No.10313747]

>>10313708
by time.
start with the greeks first

[Anonymous No.10313781]

>>10313708
Marx, then Marxists. Read economists before if you're interested in the tradition Marx used. Don't bother with libertarian garbage.

>t someone who studies economic theory

[Anonymous No.10313793]

>>10313781
>Don't bother which made America great from 1600 to 1945, but focus on a system of failure.
ok lo

[Anonymous No.10313825]

>>10313747
>>10313781
I was planning to make a chart or something, I want to sort everything alphabetically or whatever

[Anonymous No.10313861]

>>10313793
Marxism wants you to focus on material reality, goof. America was powerful because of geography, resources, and exploited labor. It's not hard to have a good economy when everything is set up for you.

>>10313825
I'd recommend making an independent wing for Marxian theories. I can rec some texts, if you're interested.

[Anonymous No.10313865]

just read about political topics that interest you. you'll give up halfway into any Fukuyama book if you aren't genuinely interested in it. His works are dense and can be very dry.

what were you guys debating? there are any number of utopian authors out there eager to share with you the "perfect" way to organize society. it's better if you start from real world topics and look into how things got to where they are now. the real world has a habit of shitting on people's utopian visions.
>>10313781
"libertarian garbage" is useful for understanding the dynamics of the modern neoliberal globalist order.

[Anonymous No.10313907]

If you want some insight in all the political madness and the far Left groups today, I strongly recommend Days of Rage, its interesting and even darkly comical at some points

[Anonymous No.10313955]

>>10313861
that'd probably be best. I don't know anything about them though so I don't know which ones to put there. Oh well.

>>10313865
Migration politics. Sweden has had a big influx of refugees from the syrian war because the rest of Europe are shitty at accepting people seeking asylum. Thus two years ago, political discourse swung around when mainstream parties went with the route of the political outcasts (a nationalist parties with nazi roots) - closing the borders.
I argued against the thesis that the nationalists were right all along, because even if the asylum system (with houses for refugees waiting on asylum decision are filled up) is challenged and might need a break right now the general premise of the nationalists was always another one than the one that mainstream parties are accepting now. The nationalists wanted to get rid of immigrants (and force them to move back) because they are immigrants, the rest of us are saying that the system is heavily loaded right now. Thus the nationalists weren't right all along

Good point about how to approach reading about politics, it sounds reasonable.

[Anonymous No.10313985]

>>10313865
I agree about it being good to understand neo-lib. It's just really shallow and doesn't require reading much beyond a few canon texts.

[Anonymous No.10314045]

>>10313955
the nationalists are largely right though. people aren't interchangeable cogs in an economy. for the concept of a "nation" to mean anything, the people who belong to it (and thus have sovereignty over their own nation) have to be clearly defined. Traditionally, this is done along ethnic lines. Multiculturalism is the idea that anyone can take part in this, regardless of how foreign and alien their culture is. obviously, this has many negative effects on social cohesion and the identity of the native group.

the system being overloaded for the sake of foreign nationals (not to mention the problems they bring, such as islamic terrorism) is just salt in the wound of a fundamental impulse against invasion (which the nationalists embrace and are very direct about).

the modern political order tries its hardest to sidestep the topic of sovereignty and what exactly a "nation" is via orwellian language policing, and this leads to radicalization of otherwise normal people. basically, healthy self-preservation has been stigmatized, and people's concerns are festering into resentment toward the foreigners and the elites that coddle them.

you really won't find any literature that rebuts the nationalists' arguments other than creepy Borg-like arguments of the "inevitability" of the dissolution of European sovereignty, which only validates the nationalists image of themselves as victimized by a cold, detached elite with no loyalty to their people.

[Anonymous No.10314058]

>>10308640
>>10308644
seconding kymlicka

[Anonymous No.10314098]

>>10314045
>for the concept of a "nation" to mean anything, the people who belong to it have to be clearly defined
Why would they have to? And even if they had to, why does the concept of a nation have to mean anything? The US seems to get by just fine without having an ethnically homogenous population, they are the most powerful economy in the world

>many negative effects on social cohesion and the identity of the native group
>social cohesion and collective identity can't exist between two people sharing different ethnic identities

>the problems they bring
they're not a pack of dogs carrying lice, they're people. They have the right to seek asylum

>sovereignty
globalization happened, nations can't hide in a corner anymore

>healthy self-preservation has been stigmatized
this conclusion stems out of faulty premises and you know it

[Anonymous No.10314112]

>>10313955
>the rest of us
(((Us))) us, or are you just a really dumb guy? You sound like the latter.

[Anonymous No.10314113]

>>10314098
>They have the right to seek asylum

[Anonymous No.10314117]

>>10311442
>keynesism allows the controllers of a democracy to run up huge debts
Hilarious!

[Anonymous No.10314122]

>Globalization is ending sovereignty

[Anonymous No.10314132]

>>10314117
U.S debt doesn't exactly matter as it is tied to dollar and to get dolla you need to trade assets/commodities to America p. much such as buy oil or arms.

as long as they are tied to OPEC or export oil themselves + have military = that debt chart is not what you think it is

[Anonymous No.10314136]

>>10314122
>What is European Union.
Each European Union had to give up their sovereignty to European Union before they could be its members. EU's decrees and orders overrule nation's laws.

[Anonymous No.10314137]

>>10314098
>why does the concept of a nation have to mean anything?
because a clear delineation between "us" and "them" is how we make sense of the world. the relationship doesn't always have to be hostile, but it helps to know who "us" is, it's a part of human nature and the world is way too massive and confusing to operate socially without a sense of belonging to some larger group. Universalism is a nice idea, but it's impractical and breeds confusion and identity issues when you try to apply it to the real world. If you really think the nation-state shouldn't exist, you're engaging in the utopian thinking I alluded to in my first post. humans are social creatures, not individuals floating in a sea of billions. though modernity does create the illusion that this is the case.

[Anonymous No.10314157]

>>10314132
Lol

[Anonymous No.10314264]

>>10314098
its not fine here. the police ignore shooting and rape reports

the problem ith multiculturalism is you plan to integrate then by teaching them "our" values. european values have been loose... FOREVER

the immigrants give political parties a reason to TELL you the meaning of "our" values and put you in prison if you disagree

if our nation can only NOT fall apart because of shared values, it is the END of free speech

if I disagree ith my caucasian or japanese neighbor, I can still have a beer and joke around.

if I disagree ith my muslim neighbor, he still is gonna vote to kill gay people

they only "share" the values the leftists TELL THEM and TELL YOU to share

[Anonymous No.10314265]

>>10308583
>Reading Fukuyama "The 90s are the end of history, Neo-Liberalism is a good thing" Fukuyama unironically.
>Reading an Economics book written by the Austrian-school member unironically.
Dear God man. I don't know who recommended those books to you, but they are horribly ill-informed.

If you really want the basics:
For Economics, read the following list. The first two are absolute essentials, then if you want to be actually well-informed, rather than just literate, move on to the others.
>Ha Joon Chang - Economics the User's Guide
(Excellent introduction to the topic for beginners, covers every part of the Economy, and the field itself, but not in much detail)
>Donald J. Harreld - An Economic History of the World Since 1400
(Exactly what it says on the tin, starts with the end of feudalism, and covers everything since)
>Richard D. Wolff - Contending Economic Theories: Neoclassical, Keynesian, & Marxian
>Samuelson & Nordhaus - Economics
Go to textbook, used in most actual university courses, extremely pro-neo-classical, though, to the point that it doesn't even acknowledge other points of view exist)
>Steve Keen - Debunking Economics
(Debunks some of the biggest problems in Neo-Classical economics, but doesn't really give any alternatives)
>David Harvey - 17 Contradictions & The End of Capitalism
>Anwar Shaikh - Capitalism: Competition, Conflict, Crises
>Schumpeter - Capitalism, Socialism & Democracy
I admit to a pro-Marxist bias here, but tried to include some variety of opinion, since this is a starter list

Geo-Politics:
Tim Marshall - Prisoners of Geography

Political Philosophy:
Plato - Republic
Aristotle - Politics
Machievelli - The Prince
Hobbes - Leviathan
Locke - Two Treatises on Government
Rousseau - The Social Contract
Lenin - The State & Revolution
John Rawls - A Theory of Justice
Robert Nozick - Anarchy, State & Utopia
(Note, this is MASSIVELY Non-Exhaustive, but covering all of political philosophy would take over 200 books, and these nine are by far the most influential)

Military Science:
Clausewitz - On War
Chairman Mao - Red book of Guerrilla Warfare
Killcullen - Counterinsurgency

I can't really recommend any more than that, unless you specify which country's politics you're most interested in.

[Anonymous No.10314270]

>>10314117
clever lie, there

the majority of u.s. spending deficit is cleverly not classed as technically debt or budget

the amount of total spending under obama is lly larger than all past presidents combined, you fucking liar

[Anonymous No.10314286]

>>10314265
you should admit to a massive bias. no communist accurately describes communism

communism is better described by kolgomorov or the gulag archipelago

[Anonymous No.10314329]

>>10314286
1)
>you should admit to a massive bias
>I admit to a pro-Marxist bias here
Congratulations, you can't fucking read.
2)
>Citing the Gulag Archipelago unironically, when its own author said he regarded it as an ahistorical collection of "camp folklore", and his wife said she's amazed that westerners treat it so seriously:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/06/world/natalya-reshetovskaya-84-is-dead-solzhenitsyn-s-wife-questioned-gulag.html

[Anonymous No.10314364]

>>10314329
It is not simply a normal bias. it is a massive one

cheers

[Anonymous No.10314367]

>>10314364
Cheers for what? Not trying to be a dick here, just genuinely confused why you're thanking me.

[Anonymous No.10314465]

>>10311896
all libertarians are literally retarded :^)

[Anonymous No.10314470]

>>10311936
>>10314465

[Anonymous No.10314482]

>>10314122
what the other anon said
>>10314137
this doesn't act as a premise to prove anything you say in your last post. A nation can gather around other common denominators than ethnicity
>>10314264
>anon is reasoning that a nation neads an ethnically homogeneous population to be a politically valid nation
>counter with the most powerful nation in the world, economically and culturally, which is ethincally diverse
>"IT'S NOT FINE HERE, WE HAVE PROBLEMS"
>>10314265
Sounds great anon, I'll look into those. I think I'll create a goodreads shelf for all these pol/econ recommendations, the body of recommendations is absolutely massive now.

If you have any tips on books on Sweden, I'd love to hear them.

Actual cheers

[Anonymous No.10314495]

>>10314482
america has tons of guns, oppresses its people, and is strong by virtue of land mass and population

I didn't think you'd LIKE that, but maybe communism is your thing after all. china is basically the same

[Anonymous No.10314512]

>>10314482
>A nation can gather around other common denominators than ethnicity
Not for long. And the US was 90% white until 1965. It's now 62% white and is spiraling down the toilet. Multiculturalism doesn't work and abstract ideals, which only whites care about, will never be able to replace ethnicity.

[Anonymous No.10314517]

>>10314482
Ah shit, mate, I know nothing about Sweden. I'm Scottish, so basically everything I know about politics is either UK, US, or more macro global shit.

[Anonymous No.10314534]

>>10314495
by guns I mean military

[Anonymous No.10314557]

>>10308583

The best book I could say about contemporary society is this:

https://www.amazon.com/Liberty-Equality-Challenge-Our-Times/dp/1610160304/ref=pd_sbs_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=G8227JC3V1CN0MM8S6ZN

However that includes my own personal biases and whatnot. The most important thing is that you make sure to study comparatives and core ideas. The first thing you read will always be a strong influence on later things because it gives you ideas which act as a lens through which the next things must necessarily pass. You have no choice in this. So it's good if your first things are about critical thinking and spotting bias. It makes you skeptical as hell but it's better than going in thinking one particular idea is already right.

The one I posted is a great book but it's definitely biased. Some people have suggested you start with some classics like aristotle. I actually agree but only the ones about logic and reasoning. Books that help you learn how to think and analyze the things you learn are absolutely essential to getting useful information out of anything else. Otherwise, you don't even know the quality of what you've learned. Maybe you're reading fucking garbage.

[Anonymous No.10314619]

>>10314482
How do you go from "why does the concept of a nation have to mean anything?" to "A nation can gather around other common denominators than ethnicity"? You're not even sticking to your own argument.

My point was that a "nation" has to mean something. Ethnicity is the easiest and most natural way, because it denotes relatedness and shared heritage. Nations that contain multiple "peoples" usually have a lot of internal conflict and strife. Either way, there has to be a clear line between "us" and "them". You ignore this with your open borders universalism.

[Anonymous No.10314644]

The Servile State by Hilaire Belloc.

[Anonymous No.10314660]

>>10314644
Also, Economics for Helen.

[Anonymous No.10314714]

>>10314619
you're right, I'm so tired I can hardly keep my eyes open. I am strongly convinced about offering help to those who need it and that conviction can seep into reasoning about other things too
>>10314517
yeah I can't blame you, nobody knows shit about Sweden. I'll take a look at your recs, thanks again.
>>10314512
guess we'll find out

[Anonymous No.10314730]

>>10314136
>>10314482
What differentiates the confederation of the 13 colonies, or the commonwealth of Australia, or the Soviet Union, or the unification of Italy and Germany, from what is currently happening with the European Union? What i mean is: Would you consider them all an example of Globalization?

[Anonymous No.10315259]

>>10314714
>I am strongly convinced about offering help to those who need it and that conviction can seep into reasoning about other things too
One of the best ways to do this would be to expand efforts to resettle refugees in neighboring countries. Taking them into a completely incompatible culture, against the wishes of a large portion of the host nation, with no easy way for them to return to their countries after the war is an extremely shortsighted way to do this and a recipe for conflict and social malaise. Most Syrian refugees actually are being resettled in neighboring countries, it's not some far fetched idea. It's common sense. Less than a third of these migrants arriving in Europe are even from Syria.

The current migrant wave is being pushed by the neoliberal elite because they're anxious about Europe's declining birth rates and want a new consumer/tax base, social consequences be damned. Nations are just big shopping malls to the elite. Your empathy is being manipulated to gain support for shortsighted, harmful "solutions" that are actually schemes by the moneyed interests to stave off slow economic growth.

[Anonymous No.10315393]

>>10315259
>The current migrant wave is being pushed by the neoliberal elite because they're anxious about Europe's declining birth rates and want a new consumer/tax base, social consequences be damned.

Do you really believe this? These are deindustrialized nations on the forefront of automation whose major industries are high tech-related, and the unskilled mud people being brought in are completely dysfunctional savages, many of whom are illiterate in their own languages. Not to mention that every European nation is taking on massive debt to feed and house them, making the economic argument totally nonsensical.

In reality it has nothing to do with that. This is about population replacement pushed by a postwar jewish elite that fears natives/nationalists rising up against them again. And the jewish elite advancing this excuse about low birthrates and pensions now was the same jewish elite promoting over-population to Europeans in the 70s. This is ethnic warfare between two groups: jews and whites, with the former trying to eradicate the latter while hocking excuses, like the ones you laid out, that make zero sense because they are merely smokescreens.

You guys can't take these narratives at face value from people you already know are lying to you. If you intend to gain an understanding of what's going on in the world, you have to understand the jewish problem. There's no other way.

[Anonymous No.10315630]

>>10315393
>This is about population replacement pushed by a postwar jewish elite that fears natives/nationalists rising up against them again.
no doubt it's about replacement migration. they actually use that term themselves(1). but you have to remember that a lot of these true believers have complete faith in the blank slate ideology, and really think that these eritrean migrants will become Mark Zuckerbergs in 1 or 2 generations.

attributing it entirely to malicious intent comes across as paranoid and pushes people away. "this is actually a race war" isn't going to win anyone over. 'meet people where they're at' is the #1 rule of activism.

(1) https://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/migration/migration.htm

[Anonymous No.10315650]

Fukuyama's "End of History" essay ends with a question mark.

[Anonymous No.10315655]

http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html

[Anonymous No.10315657]

>>10312719
Mah waifu

[Anonymous No.10315665]

>>10313781

>2017

>no Marxist has ever refuted Bohm Berwerk's critique of The LTV.

>2017

>Calculation problem still unrefuted

Don't bother with Marxists. They were BTFO'd on a deep theoretical level before you were even born.

[Anonymous No.10315670]

Fernand Braudel Civilization and Capitalism Trilogy

[Anonymous No.10315672]

>>10313865

>he fell for the neoliberal world order meme

>he thinks we don't live under globalist fascism

Papa Land smirks at your dimness.

[Anonymous No.10315676]

And its funny that after thousands of years of writing people can't even agree on basics in economics and usually history as well. Not saying its a waste of time, but almost all economics and history is pop psychology level bullshit, in that nobody knows what they are saying is the truth. But they pretend to.

[Anonymous No.10315681]

>>10313955

Give me one rational reason they shouldn't be sent back. They are low IQ, high crime, and of authoritarian religion. What does Europe gain from them other than rape, social regression, and enstupidation?

[Anonymous No.10315684]

>>10315676
>economics
>thousands of years

[Anonymous No.10315690]

>>10315684
doh

[Anonymous No.10315696]

>>10314270
t. someone without the vaguest idea what he's talking about

[Anonymous No.10315697]

>>10315630
It is malicious intent on the part of jews though. The shabbos goyim doing their bidding are usually under the same spell many plebs who read the counter-message here are, but the latter can't be expected to rise above it unless they can actually see the source, where the ideology begins, who the system benefits, the proprietors: the jews. Not sure what you're proposing here though, that people shouldn't name the jew?

[Anonymous No.10315703]

>>10314098

>Why would they have to? And even if they had to, why does the concept of a nation have to mean anything? The US seems to get by just fine without having an ethnically homogenous population, they are the most powerful economy in the world

The US became a world power when it was 90% White.

And it's been proven ethnic diversity erodes social trust and is deleterious for social capital formation.

>they're not a pack of dogs carrying lice,

They may as well be.

>they're people.

So are rapists and plague-carriers.

>They have the right to seek asylum

WHY? Does every homeless person have a right to lodge in your house regardless of their behavior?

>globalization happened, nations can't hide in a corner anymore

Then what's Japan, Isreal, Singapore, and South Korea?

[Anonymous No.10315712]

>>10314117

Wars for Isreal aren't right-wing and are certainly not libertarian. NeoCons are just Leftists who like war (((for some reason))).

[Anonymous No.10315719]

>>10315684
I guess what I'm saying is this type of writing usually has to do with determining causes for the course of history and then trying to use that knowledge to extrapolate correct actions for the future.

But you have schools that posit completely different causes, many of them completely opposite to each other, and there is no way to really understand who is correct. Nobody can agree on what caused Rome to fall or the collapse at the end of the Bronze Age or the real reason healthcare cost so much in America.

But you do have fanatical people on with opposite viewpoints pointing at their own evidence and agreeing on very little common ground.

[Anonymous No.10315721]

>>10314265

What are your arguments against the Austrian School?

[Anonymous No.10315724]

>>10314557

Hoppe's a good rejoiner for Erik von K-L.

[Anonymous No.10315730]

Laughing at all the /pol/tard posts. Too funny... tha joos! tha immigrunts! lmao

[Anonymous No.10315735]

>>10315730
>t. low IQ anchor baby or tel aviv poster.

[Anonymous No.10315738]

>>10315393

This is right. It's Judeo-Aryan war and I eagerly await the day when the scales tip and its Jews who are being hunted down and ethnically liquidated. And I'm not even White. That's just how loathsome Jews are.

[Anonymous No.10315743]

>>10315730

Not an argument.

[Anonymous No.10315748]

>>10315738
>And I'm not even White
What jew-aware race are you then?

[Anonymous No.10315752]

>>10315681
the reason?

they are an army meant to crush their political opposition (you)

the more violent they are, the better they are at killing the opposition, and the better at intimidating they are, the betterthey are at scaring to into silence and dissuading intimidation

they're indolent, stupid, and unable to plan. that makes them 100% loyal to the leftists in the sphere of domestic politics

a euro or chinese does fine no matter the party in office. that makes them inefficient at political arfare

the leftists mean to kill each and every one of you

[Anonymous No.10315810]

>>10315748

Hispanic.

[Anonymous No.10315814]

>>10315752

I like that reason better than humanitarianism. It's dastardly, but it's doesn't make me want to barf.

[Anonymous No.10316184]

>>10313861
>America was powerful because of geography, resources, and exploited labor

I would love to live my life through with being satisfied with simplified truths like this.

[Anonymous No.10316211]

>>10315259
The neighbouring countries around Syria are lead by oppressive regimes. Why wouldn't they have gone there themselves if it was a better option?

What would you do about the declining birth rate + the growing body of elderlies if not importing people to help out?

>>10315393
>>10315738
pic related

>>10315681
>low IQ
social class
>high crime
social crime
>authoritarian religion
education -> secularisation
If we invest in people we should keep them around so we can reap the fruits
>>10315703
>became a world power when it was 90% white
if the ethnicity thing was such a huge problem the US wouldn't have kept being the world's most powerful culture and economy up to this point

We have differing values about what human lives are worth, I won't be able to get my point across to someone who doesn't believe in empathy

[Anonymous No.10316220]

>>10313985
Shallow? Austrian theory unites micro- and macroeconomy in a manner unseen in any other schools. It's a very pervasive criticism against the shaky foundations non-Austrians build their theories on.

[Anonymous No.10316400]

>>10315724

Just looked him up. Seems interesting. Anti immigration has nothing to do with libertarianism. Even heaven has gates.

But yeah this guy seems a bit.... his idea of libertarianism is a bit too much "everybody does stuff I like and nothing I don't"

[Anonymous No.10316403]

>>10313865
Neo-liberals aren't libertarians. Most of the neolib economists I know follow the neoclassical school.

[Anonymous No.10316416]

>>10315752
lmao oh jebus this shit is so nuts it's hilarious. there's no way you don't have a psychiatric diagnosis, skiz. it seems like the travelling loonybin is in town today or something. i've been laughing at this kind of silly shit all day.

[Anonymous No.10316425]

>>10316211
>>low IQ
>social class
The gap exists in all socioeconomic classes, it most certainly has a considerable genetic component.
>>high crime
>social crime
MAOA gene, more impulsive personality types have been confirmed in various studies, and what makes this remarkable is that the same applies to black populations in Africa, US, and the Caribbean alike. No non-idological reason whatsoever to start from the assumption that racism and bad kindergartens are the reason for black criminality. Besides, the Chinese and Jews have been heavily discriminated against in the past, but they're OVERACHIEVERS

[Anonymous No.10316726]

>>10316425
>genetic component
show me a laboratory study where they were able to exclude the variable of racial exclusion and I'll believe you
>social crime
shit I meant to say "social class" again
Jews have enjoyed benefits from having been in charge since forever and discrimination against asians have been very different from the one against blacks and folks from the middle east. Part of the stereotype about asians is that they are overachievers who study, the stereotype about blacks and immigrants is that they are dumb. Are you familiar with the concept of "stereotype threat"?

I didn't understand what you were trying to say about the MAOA gene

[Anonymous No.10316736]

Carl Schmitt if you want to feel motivated to form a local Freikorps after reading.

[Anonymous No.10316749]

>>10308583
>Fukuyama

[Anonymous No.10316792]

>>10316726
This really sums up your stand. Whereas you ask for literal gene level evidence from us, you assume the evolutionarily ignorant egalitarian null hypothesis. I suggest that this is because of the truth's political implications.

Scroll down, and you'll find a list of some known genes related to intelligence http://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/15/race-and-iq-related-genes/ . This is, of course, far from definite evidence, but the science isn't there yet; this kind of research, do note, has also experienced lots of pushback from people afraid of the results.

Here is some analysis of skin color and African ancestry as mediating factors in IQ if you're interested, but this isn't as official stuff as you'd likely want it to be https://menghublog.wordpress.com/2013/03/22/holes-in-the-colorism-hypothesis/
Even if you're unwilling to accept the hereditarian hypothesis without stout, stout evidence, I'll still inform you that the gap is largest on most g-loaded subtests, which are known to be most dependent on genes. (The same subtests where blacks fail, people with "intellectual disabilities" fail.)

>Jews have enjoyed benefits from having been in charge since forever and discrimination against asians have been very different from the one against blacks and folks from the middle east. Part of the stereotype about asians is that they are overachievers who study, the stereotype about blacks and immigrants is that they are dumb.
The Irish and Italians were though of as unintelligent, when they came to the US. There were also some beliefs of Jewish inferiority floating around America in the early 1900s.
Besides, Asians and Jews didn't get these stereotypical characterizations out of thin air. The thing is, since the day we have encountered Africans, they have not showcased Jewish, Caucasian, or Asian levels of brilliance.

The MAOA gene, in short, is a gene that is linked with extreme violence and extreme aggression and is found overrepresented in prison populations (I remember reading actual breakdowns by race, I'm sure you can find them somewhere). Black males are also 13.5 times more likely to have a rare version of the gene.

[Anonymous No.10316798]

>>10316792
And, I might add, it's really tough to get intelligence out of people. A good illustration is how deaf people, obviously hugely disadvantaged, have only lower verbal IQ, but their g remains unaffected.

[Anonymous No.10316885]

>>10316792
I'm not a trained neuroscientist and therefore I'm not sure about what to do with the first source you presented, but wouldn't epigenetic gene expression theoretically be able to account for those differences? It does for the MAOA gene. Children who were exposed to child abuse showed MAOA gene expression, whereas children who weren't did not. I recently wrote a paper about it.
The second source isn't good enough. Laypeople shouldn't be reading research that hasn't been peer reviewed, because they can't spot faults in the research.

Tell me more about g-loaded subtests.

Are you seriously comparing the irish and italians to blacks when it comes to stereotype?
>there were also some beliefs of Jewish inferiority floating around America in the eraly 1900s
not an argument that inflates mine

>asians and jews didn't get these stereotypical characterizations out of thin air
??? you present nothing to back up this claim and even if you did it wouldn't be conclusive
>since the day we have encountered africans, they have not blah
gee what a surprise, considering we gave them every opportunity to thrive academically right off the bat

[Anonymous No.10316900]

>>10310755
Thats not what capital is about

[Anonymous No.10316904]

>>10311814
how does land fit in your meme libertarian list

[Anonymous No.10316911]

>>10316749
He basically tacitly admits his whole "end-of-history" hypothesis that liberalism is as good as it gets might be wrong, and that a period of benevolent autocracy might be healthy for a nation.

[Anonymous No.10316912]

>read these books that conform to my ideology : the thread

[Anonymous No.10316921]

>>10316425

>Chinese and Jews have been heavily discriminated against in the past, but they're OVERACHIEVERS

they're better at working together/establshing helpful communities

blacks burn down each others' stores, then happily buy from koreans

[Anonymous No.10317000]

>>10316885
>Children who were exposed to child abuse showed MAOA gene expression, whereas children who weren't did not.
I would like to get a source.
>The second source isn't good enough.
I know it doesn't fulfill any requirements, but decided to post it in case someone's interested.

Here is some stuff I quickly found about the Jensen effect http://www.humanbiologicaldiversity.com/articles/Rushton%2C%20J.%20Philippe%20%26%20Arthur%20R.%20Jensen.%20%22The%20rise%20and%20fall%20of%20the%20Flynn%20Effect%20as%20a%20reason%20to%20expect%20a%20narrowing%20of%20the%20Black-White%20IQ%20gap.%22%20Intelligence%2038%20%282010%29.pdf

>Are you seriously comparing the irish and italians to blacks when it comes to stereotype?
You'd expect them to fare worse than they do. You once again assume the null hypothesis that Africans were perceived as being less intelligent UNJUSTLY, when there are no considerable manifestations of high level of African achievement to this day.
>you present nothing to back up this claim and even if you did it wouldn't be conclusive
Oh Jesus Christ, I bet you feel really smart for arguing in bad faith, while you have presented no proof of causality between stereotyping and lowered IQ points. Is your hypothesis that we encountered Jews and Asians living in mud huts like those where Africans lived, but because we somehow still perceived them as intelligent, they became intelligent? This is superstitious.
>gee what a surprise, considering we gave them every opportunity to thrive academically right off the bat
That was like 60 years ago, there have been massive programs implemented to get blacks to white levels, Head Star, Affirmative Action, you name it. Where are the (non-hollow) IQ gains? We have no reasons to expect that blacks are capable of thriving academically, when we have never witnessed them doing anything of the kind on a large scale, it's just your ideology speaking.

[Anonymous No.10317007]

>>10316921
Begs the question would people with high genetic intelligence engender such environments.

[Anonymous No.10317027]

I have only read Anderson's Imagined Communities and Smith's Nationalism and I hold my own in political discussion, despite my general apathy for it. Solid reads; I also recommend Bruce Lincoln's "Holy Terrors: Thinking About Religion After 9/11" for his discussion of cultural vs national power structures.

[Anonymous No.10317034]

>>10317000
In addition to those programs, there surely has been a major shift in public perceptions of blacks. I don't live in America, so I can't tell how much racism is wafting in the climate still.

[Anonymous No.10317102]

>>10308825
>>The Politically Incorrect Guide to Socialism
>>The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression
kill yourself

[Anonymous No.10317106]

>>10317102
>don't talk about it lalalala i can't hear you

[Anonymous No.10317131]

>>10315670
this man knows, a surprisingly cozy read

[Anonymous No.10318048]

>>10316885
>wouldn't epigenetic gene expression theoretically be able to account for those differences?
I'll add my final note.
This is the advantage you have as egalitarians; you get to suggest wildly implausible, imperceptible, and exotic mechanisms as driving the IQ gap, whereas we use falsifiable hypotheses. You refuse to abide by the scientific method, in face of overwhelming evidence for the hereditarian hypothesis, because your ideology gets in the way. African ancestry has a clear effect on a person's IQ, but you, being intellectually dishonest, shrug it off with "dunno, could be racism of the past," and ensue to provide no models. It's a shame you're in a position to write papers on anything touching on science.

[Anonymous No.10318219]

>>10316211

>The neighbouring countries around Syria are lead by oppressive regimes. Why wouldn't they have gone there themselves if it was a better option?

I don't give a a shit. They don't belong in Europe.

>social class

Poor rural Chinese children have a higher IQ than the average where these migrants are coming from. And even if it were environmental, they still shouldn't be allowed in. How do you propose we fix their IQs in a way that doesn't have a financial expenditure on Europeans' part? Look at how much money we've wasted unsuccessfully trying to close America's Black/White IQ gap.

>social crime

What does this mean?

>education -> secularisation

There's still a lot of White Christians with full access to first world education with those viewpoints. And you propose education will magically transform every desert savage into an impeccable social liberal? Also, education is expensive whilst bullets are cheap.

>if the ethnicity thing was such a huge problem the US wouldn't have kept being the world's most powerful culture and economy up to this point

If ethnicity didn't matter why didn't Mexico become a world power as well? Why are the only nice countries other than Chile on the North American continent majority White?

Empathy is the excuse of the weak (or deranged).

[Anonymous No.10318270]

>>10316726

>show me a laboratory study where they were able to exclude the variable of racial exclusion and I'll believe you

It's called Asian socioeconomic success.

>Jews have enjoyed benefits from having been in charge since forever

Bad goy.

>discrimination against asians have been very different from the one against blacks

How so? What about internment camps? The Chinese exclusion act?

>folks

Mcfucking kill yourself.

>Part of the stereotype about asians is that they are overachievers who study,

And why the fuck would mean o'l Whitey create a stereotype like that? You really think Asians are successful because white people made up a stereotype?

>the stereotype about blacks and immigrants is that they are dumb.

Asians are immigrants, dumbfuck. The crime/IQ pattern holds for Asians in Asia and Blacks in Africa. You really think that's all because of White stereotypes?

[Anonymous No.10318283]

>>10316792

I'd also recommend he read the chapters of Culture of Critique that deals with these topics.

[Anonymous No.10318307]

>>10316885

Gene expression isn't the same as innate gene variance.

>Are you seriously comparing the irish and italians to blacks when it comes to stereotype?

Why not?

>you present nothing to back up this claim and even if you did it wouldn't be conclusive

Why would racist White people create postive stereotypes about non-Whites and why would these stereotypes hold true on a global scale? You really think it's safer to walk around at night in Tokyo than in Chicago because White people decided it should be that way?

>gee what a surprise, considering we gave them every opportunity to thrive academically right off the bat

So then why do rich Blacks score lower than poor Whites on The SAT? How does this account for transracial adoption studies?

[Anonymous No.10318309]

>>10316904

Have you read him?

[Anonymous No.10318317]

>>10318283
If I were him, I'd read the book just for some food for self-reflection

[Anonymous No.10318321]

>>10318219
>>10318270
>asians asians asians asians asians
>they're all the same, japan = china = korea = vietnam = thailand etc

[Anonymous No.10318343]

>>10316885
you don't understand the meaning of epigenetics

your dna test gives the same result 100% of the time. epigenetics is a process called methylation that attaches to pieces of dna to unscroll them inside the cell, causing behavioral plasticity. epigenetics is NEUROplasticity, the ability to learn and change. maoa is a neuroplastic variant that turns a person very, very violent. if you have it, you are almost certainly violent, if you don't have it, it takes a LOT of influence to make you violent.

the ability to learn itself if neuroplastic. people that don't have various genes have impaired learning ability. that means they are less fucking affected by life events. the ability itself to adapt is genetic.

in the same manner maoa is affected by methylation to turn on violence, to turn on other functions e.g. "learning to associate environmental factor N to mental process P" (this can describe arithmetic in a functional environment) children's genes become methylated during the learning process. but the gene still needs to unscroll inside the cell, the unscrolling process engages the function of making proteins and this changes cell function

they'revery close to figuring out the protein engagement in cell function that engages mathematical ability

[Anonymous No.10318439]

>>10308684
>shit like Aristotle
I know you're not seriously saying it's worthless, but that attitude betrays your lack of a deeper grasp on political philosophy.

You can only understand such subjective and constantly shifting abstract concepts as 'political philosophy' by reading authors across different time periods, there simply is no alternative. And if someone is crunched for time, like OP is, then he will learn much more starting from the other end of the spectrum instead of only reading modern stuff, as you imply he should.

In any case, since I have little time and others are helping you out here, I will just leave a little advice, OP. If anyone recommends to you, in response to the question "give me some resources to be educated on politics," only a list of modern books written in the last 50 years, ignore everything they say. While there might be gems in recent history, the sheer preponderance of great historical works on the subject reveals whoever is talking to you is ignorant and not worth your time.

[Anonymous No.10318490]

>>10318439
dont take him seriously, anon

he reccomends fucking fukuyama, the guys ENTIRE thesis has been completely invalidated by the last decade of history

anyone too stupid/dishonest to ignore fukuyama at this point needs to be shot

[Anonymous No.10318559]

>tfw every polysci book published post 2010 makes fun of Fukuyama

[Anonymous No.10318934]

>>10317000
>>10318343
>>10318307
shit, I misremembered that one about MAOA gene expression. The study was about how maltreated children were more or less at risk for becoming delinquent later on, depending on MAOA gene. New to the thing with epigenetics. >>10318343 this was really informative, thanks for typing this out
.
I stumbled upon something else when looking at the study and related ones though, about how MAOA-3R (a variant of the gene that is considered the most risky one) is found just as much in chinese and taiwanese males as in maori and african americans:
>Comparison between european males, maoris and african americans:
http://www.nzma.org.nz/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/17838/Vol-120-No-1250-02-March-2007.pdf
>Taiwanese
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278584601002883?via%3Dihub
>Chinese
https://bmcmedgenet.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2350-12-74

>>10317000
I'll take a look at your article tomorrow.

>fare worse than they do
blacks have been systematically oppressed for centuries, you think it's comparable with how irish and italians were teased for a couple of decades in the US?

>You once again assume the null hypothesis that Africans were perceived as being less intelligent UNJUSTLY, when there are no considerable manifestations of high level of African achievement to this day
My point is that you don't know what was first - the hen or the chicken. In this case, probably both since africans weren't litterate when europeans encountered them and they were oppressed from that moment.

>you have presented no proof of causality between stereotyping and lowered IQ points
Allright lets get this straight

P1 Stereotypes about asians being smart came about because asians are smart
P2 If stereotypes about asians being smart came about because asians are smart, stereotypes about blacks being dumb came about because blacks are dumb
C Stereotypes about blacks being dumb came about because blacks are dumb

I only questioned your first premise, even though the second one is wonky aswell. The argument doesn't hold.

What I'm saying is that you can't dismiss the possibility of there being a causal connection between stereotyping and lowered IQ points. Research about stereotype threat is very conclusive so it's not like it's a far fetched idea, especially not if you factor in how there are very few blacks in the academic environment to look up to. I'm not saying that this is the definitive answer and I don't need to either, the ones with the burden of proof are the ones who are trying to prove that the hereditary theory about intelligence is bulletproof. I am, among many others, saying that it's not. And until it is, people shouldn't suffer from conclusions drawn from that thesis.

I don't get what you're trying to say about jews and asians and mud huts

>>10318048
you're talking like that stuff about genetic components to intelligence was conclusive, give me a break

[Anonymous No.10318977]

Also, to everyone who has given me advice on how to approach getting into political philosophy, thank you. It seems to me that this is a much bigger subject than I'd thought it to be, if you want to understand it. I'll do my best to compile all tips I've gotten in this thread and figure out where to start - right now I'm thinking that I'll start with Fukuyama just to feel it out and go for the long route with Aristotle and Plato over time. I've been meaning to start there later on anyway, I'm going to do at least a bit of the greeks thing.

You guys are knowledgeable, I really appreciate your recs
/OP

[Anonymous No.10319151]

M A R X
A
R
X

[Anonymous No.10319179]

>>10310563

[Anonymous No.10319202]

>>10308825
>Carl Schmitt

Nice

[Anonymous No.10319292]

Martin Jay - The Dialectical Imagination
Walter Benjamin - Theories of German Fascism
Marshall Berman - All That Is Solid Melts into Air
David Harvey - The Condition of Postmodernity
Domenico Losurdo - Liberalism: A Counter-History
Mark Fisher - Capitalist Realism
David Graeber - Debt: The First 5,000 Years
Henri Lefebvre - The Sociology of Marx

[Anonymous No.10319327]

>>10308825
I'd like to add David Harvey's History of Neoliberalism

[Anonymous No.10319332]

>>10317102
The Politically Incorrect Guide series are fun as fuck.
>The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression
I'm sorry, Maybe I should have picked:
>Statistics of Democide: Genocide and Mass Murder since 1900
>A People's Tragedy: The Russian Revolution: 1891-1924
>Execution by Hunger: The Hidden Holocaust
>Gulag Voices
>Man is Wolf to Man
>>>The Gulag Archipelago
>First They Killed My Father: A Daughter of Cambodia Remembers
Already mentioned "The Problem of Political Authority" and "Death by Government".

[Anonymous No.10319384]

>>10312113
Yes with the exception of de Jouvenal

[Anonymous No.10319395]

>>10318977
Reading Plato and Aristotle from scratch is only important for historical politics. (As in "zero" rulers successfully enacting their ideas.) They are however the ground where all philosophy stand. But not applied politics/economics.
Cicero is incomparably more influential. (In that way) By pretty much directly influencing modern politics. Especially the whole US government.

[Anonymous No.10319411]

>>10318490
His first volume is still great for historical knowledge . . .
Although I'd recommend
>The History of Government from the Earliest Times by Samuel E. Finer
Maybe pointless now so late in thread. And it's obviously outdated for anything after the books release, but everything after the books release is pretty "obvious".

[Anonymous No.10319489]

>>10318934
>maoa
you're elcome

correct about the chinese

there are other factors mediating violence. the effect of maoa variants is much stronger in nonasians. asians probably have a different mutation to decrease violent behavior absent in other races- corroborating evidence is that asians actually have higher average test than europeans

the function of point (single) mutations that might counteract maoa could be broken or lost in interracial children. this perhaps accounts for the large number of half asian mass shooters

I never mentioned this, but regarding blacks...

look, the proportion of environmental influence to intelligence is the same proportion to damage

restated: if a mother drinks during pregnancy and the child comes out deformed, there'll be as high as a 100% environmental correlate to intelligence

if the child comes out perfectly healthy, there'll be a 0% environmental correlation, 90% parental phenotypical genetic, and 10% noise from genetic recombination (still genetic)

so, potential intelligence, as a neural structure in teh brain, is 100% genetic. if it is not coded for, genetically, it cannot manifest. a hammer to the brain can sure reduce it, but good luck improving it.

there is no evidence at all that mistreatment caused black intelligence to be dismal. in modern china children that dont have running ater, or enough food, take rope bridges across a ravine, in the ice, to learn calculus. their average intelligence is 107.

[Anonymous No.10319803]

>>10318321

You're right. To be specific, East Asians (although all Asian countries out preform Sub-Saharan Africans).

[Anonymous No.10319816]

>>10308583
just skip rand

[Anonymous No.10319817]

>>10318343

Basically, epigenetics is not neo-Lamarckianism.

[Anonymous No.10319856]

>>10314286
i literally REFUSE to understand communism

[Anonymous No.10319884]

>>10318934

MAOA is just one piece of the Human Biodiversity puzzle. IQ is the determining factor (which you're conveniently ignoring).

>blacks have been systematically oppressed for centuries, you think it's comparable with how irish and italians were teased for a couple of decades in the US?

Jews have been systematically oppressed for thousands of years and make more on average today than Whites. And you're still dodging East Asian socioeconomic success.

>My point is that you don't know what was first - the hen or the chicken. In this case, probably both since africans weren't litterate when europeans encountered them and they were oppressed from that moment.

So why are SubSaharan IQs still low? And didn't consider that not developing a written language could have something to do with genetic intelligence?


>P1 Stereotypes about asians being smart came about because asians are smart
>P2 If stereotypes about asians being smart came about because asians are smart, stereotypes about blacks being dumb came about because blacks are dumb
>C Stereotypes about blacks being dumb came about because blacks are dumb

That's basically correct.

>The argument doesn't hold.

Why?

You also haven't addressed my arguments here:

>Why would racist White people create postive stereotypes about non-Whites and why would these stereotypes hold true on a global scale? You really think it's safer to walk around at night in Tokyo than in Chicago because White people decided it should be that way?

>And until it is, people shouldn't suffer from conclusions drawn from that thesis.

The same could be said for your neo-Lysenkoan position since it's used to waste money, juistfy massive government intervention to force equality, and is used to justify population replacement of Europeans. If we replace Europeans with Africans on the premise that they're the same underneath what do we do if they're not? Send them back, right? Billions have been spent -- and in my view, wasted --- trying to close the Black/White IQ gap. Which means that if neo-Lysenkoism is false, all that money would have been thrown down a rat hole.

>you're talking like that stuff about genetic components to intelligence was conclusive, give me a break

Twin studies have been conclusive in showing that IQ is mostly genetic.

[Anonymous No.10319897]

>>10319332

Moldbug also touches on these ideas in his work.

[Anonymous No.10319913]

>>10312706
???
The biggest criticisms on that type of liberal thought are from Marxist, communist and anarchist direction.

[Anonymous No.10320480]

>>10319913

The only intelligent Leftists I've ever encountered have been Marxists or left anarchists.

[Anonymous No.10320515]

>>10320480
>intelligent leftists

[Anonymous No.10320685]

>>10320515

Reliatively speaking of course.

[Anonymous No.10321121]

>>10319489
That's a convincing argument. However, those chinese children do not experience the negative stereotyping and ethnic separation that blacks do in the west.
There is no evidence that it doesn't either. This is only a problem for the ones reasoning that differences in intelligence is hereditary.
>>10319884
I wasn't responding to you. You have missed a lot of my arguments, read them if you want me to respond to you.

[Anonymous No.10321127]

>>10321121
>the ones reasoning that differences in intelligence is hereditary.
There is literally no question that it is.

[Anonymous No.10321145]

>>10321127
don't be a bitch, you know what I meant

[Anonymous No.10321148]

>>10321127
or rather, not all differences in intelligence is hereditary at all. A large chunk of that difference is due to environment, another is due to epigenetics

[Anonymous No.10321400]

>>10321148
You're retarded and don't know what you're talking about. Little to nothing about intelligence is linked to environment, we know this, there's no speculation anymore.

[Anonymous No.10321506]

>>10321400
cite your sources dumbfuck

[Anonymous No.10321537]

>>10321121
look, I've been the one making civil posts and not saying "nigger nigger nigger"

but listen

the evidence is not even remotely against me on this. beyond any doubt blacks are genetically less intelligent and much more violent

this is hypothetical, but if you cause my children to come to harm by YOUR voluntary negligence, I'm going to take revenge on you. most people think like this.

your stubborn and voluntary negligence is getting innocents killed by your protection of criminals. it must stop. the sooner it stops, the less likely you'll get harmed for your crimes

you are not permitted to feign ignorance and continue supporting murder.

put your head on straight or you may find it missing.

[Anonymous No.10321641]

>>10321537
see how I'm not the only one with an ideological bias? I don't see you breaking your back over arguing about more effective ways to reduce social class divide, even though this is arguably the biggest influence on intelligence and violence.

your fear manifests itself in a confirmation bias

[Anonymous No.10322495]

>>10321121

>However, those chinese children do not experience the negative stereotyping and ethnic separation that blacks do in the west.

They once did but now their IQs are higher than Whites. You're dodging my arguments because you can't think of any counters.

[Anonymous No.10322824]

>guys guys no you don't understand, if we pretend that niggers are intelligent then they will become intelligent, trust me
Great thread

[Anonymous No.10322851]

>>10309391
>books written by a woman on Politics/Economics

[Anonymous No.10322976]

>>10321537
>the evidence is not even remotely against me on this.
Not the guy you've been talking to but you're gonna have to show me where that is.
You've already allowed in this argument that how genetics are expressed is complicated and we don't know all of it, which alone should dissuade you from making these broad declarations as indisputable fact. Especially if you're gonna get on all this weird shit about how material conditions barely matter.
>Immediately pivots into emotional fire and brimstone arguments
I don't have a lot of patience for this shit, because so far all I see the /pol/sters doing is conflating correlation and causation and then handwaving away any confounding variables as (((trickery)))

[Anonymous No.10323226]

>>10322495
what? how can they be ethnically separated -> negatively stereotyped in their own country, where they are the majority? again, I wasn't responding to you, you dumb shit

[Anonymous No.10323627]

>>10321506
Twin studies. "Adoption" studies (as in black adopted kids to white parents are still "retarded" compared to the parent's real kids).
But he's wrong, environment is like at best 40%, but probably closer to 20%.
Nutrition and proper upbringing obviously matters, and that is the around 30% influence on IQ.

[Anonymous No.10323861]

>>10323627
I know, I wanted him to try to find source on that shit and give up when he realized he was dead wrong. Pathetic

Environment/genetic components shift back and forth on their influence depending on the research you read, here is for example a review that stipulates that genetic factors explain variance of intelligence to about r=0.45 (45%) in children (Title: Intelligence: Knowns and unknowns. Authors: Neisser, Boodoo, Bouchard, Boykin, Brody, Ceci, Halpern, Loehlin, Perloff, Sternberg, Urbina. Year: 1996) This r number will likely be higher if measured later (measured genetic variance in adults) due to epigenetic factors - individuals picking environment and so on

Due to the low r number when measuring children, one could argue that IQ would be affected in a much higher degree if exposed to bad environment

[Anonymous No.10323864]

>>10323861
can't link the study due to uni library system being wonky

[Anonymous No.10323900]

>>10309389
>black economics man
Every fucking thread

[Anonymous No.10324010]

>>10323226

The impoverished children's IQs in China and in America (where they experienced discrimination) are identical and higher than both the Black and white average. How do you explain that?

[Anonymous No.10324203]

>>10315703

"white" wasn't really an ethnicity at that point man. as recently as when my 70 year old italian uncle was a teenager, if he walked into the polish side of the neighborhood he was risking getting jumped.

[Anonymous No.10325317]

>>10308583
win bigly-scott adams

[Anonymous No.10326341]

>>10324010
stereotypes about chinese have always been that they are manipulative and competent, rather than dumb.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_content_model
On a two-axis-scale over percieved warmth and percieved competence, chinese have been percieved to be low in warmth and high in competence, kind of like how jews were portrayed by nazis before the holocaust. Blacks are percieved to be low in warmth (violent and dangerous) and low in competence.

Why is this relevant? Look at the following wikipedia page, notice how whites in the experiments perform even better when exposed to a stereotype about them being more competent (no, Wikipedia isn't my source but I'm in school and I can't be arsed to dig up my book on social psychology in which I read about this first)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereotype_threat

(Side note: later on in the holocaust the nazi propaganda shifted from saying that jews were manipulative (high competence, low warmth) to that they were vermin (low competence, low warmth) - effectively providing the masses who were struggling with the moral of the holocaust an alternative narrative that dehumanized the jews. If a person is percieved to be less of a human, it's easier to justify wrongdoings towards them. Blacks are often likened to apes, dehumanizing them in order to justify acting in inhumane ways towards them. Example: closing borders for people seeking asylum even though they obviously are in need of it, reducing human beings to numbers and genetic code and discussing MAOA and intelligence genes although variance between individuals across ethnicity is much bigger than variance between ethnic groups. This is an effective strategy to be able to distance oneself from having to face the moral in not helping other humans who are suffering)

[Anonymous No.10326810]

>>10309389
what's discipline and punish about?

[Anonymous No.10327937]

Yea, it's this brand new thing called a functional understanding of the process of evolution by natural selection and genetic degrees of relatedness and what do you know everything humans do suddenly makes sense.

Doesn't mean it "makes sense", but it can be made sense of, if ya feel me, man.

[Anonymous No.10327963]

>>10326341

Only posted once in this thread to reccommend a book, I think. New poster to this discussion anyway:

Assuming you're discussing the current asylum thing in europe, it's bullshit. They're invading. 80% of the over 1mil people are military aged men. Over 80 percent. That's over 800 000 of them. There were like 45000 isis fighters in syria.

That's not "seeking asylum" that's either economic migration opportunism or an outright invasion. Either or really.

[Anonymous No.10329157]

>>10327963
invasion? jesus christ dude

Say you had a family, and war struck. You guys don't have any resources, bank accounts are frozen. You have a couple of hundred dollars lying in your left shoe, and your family is staying at your neighbours friend's friend Steve. Your country is so fucked that you know employment will be a bitch to find in the next couple of years, your house is bombed to shit. You talk to a smuggler that Steve's friend knows, who says he can get you to some country where there's work for half of your money.

When your family is to choose who is going abroad to make money to send back, would you choose your daughter, or would you go?

fuck right off

[Anonymous No.10329187]

>>10329157
you mean the daughters they regularly rape and keep as slaves imprisoned in their houses?

what does your rambling have to do with what he said? the vast majority are adult males you fucking retard, they have no business in europe

[Anonymous No.10329201]

>>10329187
are you seriously this dense?

the "rambling" is alluding to the fact that families are sending their strongest members to go to other countries to try to make some money to send back, it wouldn't make any sense to send the mother or daughter

[Anonymous No.10329327]

>>10329201
How do they send back money if their bank accouns are frozen?

[Anonymous No.10329361]

>>10319332
>the gulag archipelago
>execution by hunger: The hidden holocaust
These are stupid, but the rest is good.

[Anonymous No.10329400]

>>10327937
What books do I read if I want to red pill myself on this?

[Anonymous No.10329416]

>>10308583
Try taking a few classes in economics and statistics, you stupid faggot. Economics isn’t purely qualitative. Fucking pathetic.

Pro tip: stay away from the economist.

[Anonymous No.10329731]

>>10329201
>sending their strongest members to go to other countries
>countries they cant speak the local language in and that unskilled labor is the last thing theyre demanding in the employment market

[Anonymous No.10329733]

>>10329201
they arent being killed if they leave the kids behind. they just like having money you faggot

you keep moving the goalposts

[Anonymous No.10330778]

>>10329731
>they are well read on economics
>>10329327
you do understand this was a way to build a scenario for the anon to understand that his money was seized/disappeared right?
>>10329733
you are being retarded on purpose

[Anonymous No.10331411]

>>10330778
So they do send it through their bank accounts, right? Then it shouldn't be hard to get a number on the amount of money they send back. Could you provide a source for the claim that they send money back? Because after a quick google search all I found was articles about how fucked the syrian banks are

[Anonymous No.10332631]

>>10308618
>Reading a postmodernist hack like Foucault

[Anonymous No.10333787]

>>10330778
>they are well read on economics
>the people that allowed them into the country

[Anonymous No.10333791]

>>10308583
>getting blown out by a Fukayama worshiper

No amount of education can reform you