/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10286613]

Why does the "manchild" phenomenon exist? Why do people never take the natural steps towards ever-edifying media?

[Anonymous No.10286626]

>>10286613

>Why do people never take the natural steps towards ever-edifying media?

I get the gist of what you're trying to say here but this was worded really awkwardly.

[Anonymous No.10286628]

>>10286626

Also this is a literature board. Discuss literature or take this to /tv/.

[Anonymous No.10286667]

>>10286613
because the definition of "man" in the modern world is preposterously lacking, and basically consists of working a menial job one despises in order to support one's family which one never sees
in other words, most men would rather kill themselves than be a """"""man"""""" nowadays, but they opt, instead, to be "manchildren"

[Anonymous No.10286671]

>>10286613
capitalism

[Anonymous No.10286676]

teenagers are fantastic consumers

[Anonymous No.10286682]

>>10286613
we're slowly demolishing shame

[Anonymous No.10286686]

>>10286628
Not OP, or suggesting that this shouldn't be removed, but /lit is basically the only place on 4chan where you can get a consistent base of intelligent thoughtful people to dissect an issue, so it makes sense for it to expand a bit beyond lit proper.

[Anonymous No.10286696]

>>10286613
Because American society has separated media into two categories which it enforces. There is what is considered academic and what is considered pleasurable. You can't, under this dynamic, read serious literature for fun. That's what you did in school! That's boring!

So we create dumbed-down trite that can be easily marketed to a mass which sees serious artistic media as a burden to be slogged through in school, instead of a cultural touchstone. Instead, Star Wars becomes the cultural touchstone.

He who was living is now dead, we who were living are now dying with a little patience.

[Anonymous No.10286701]

>>10286686

Na OP just wanted to have a circlejerk moment for an ego boost. We both know what this really was.

[Anonymous No.10286702]

Men are the engine of historical change because they take up existing institutions and discourses, attempt to understand them, and ultimately change them (either consciously or unconsciously). The essence of history is change, not stability. Every era is supposed to inherit civilization from its fathers and do its best to push things forward.

One of the great tragedies of capitalism and its schemata of political economy is that these urges and creative upwellings are contrary to the basic premise of capitalism, which is to control and constrain the future, to reduce the entire future (whatever it may contain) down to the point that all it contains is a return on present investments. That is, the unconscious capitalist machine god, and the "society" and "humans" which it controls as appendages, already sees itself as a perfect machine, except for the single factor of further profit. It already is what it should be, now it just wants to become more of itself.

But the natural drive toward change and creativity is still built into the human. So the natural tendency of the capitalist machine is to find the most efficient ways of channeling and redirecting that drive in ways that are incapable of producing qualitative change, i.e., ONLY capable of producing quantitative profit. With every failure, it grows stronger by learning a little more about how humans might escape the system. It learns algorithmically how to channel the drive, and then meta-channel the drive's escape vectors when it tries to escape, and then meta-meta-channel the drive's meta-escape vectors when it tries to meta-escape the meta-channels.

The human is quickly outpaced. Morality, creativity, ambition, the revolutionary impulse, everything is eventually channeled into a commodified form that is waiting and ready for the person to stumble upon it and be absorbed back into the system. In the unlikely event that he resists every existing commodity, his actions are constrained and a new commodity is generated that matches his scenario, so that his escape route is never possible again.

Every time you see a neckbeard, it's a Julius Caesar, a Martin Luther, a Julius Caesar trying to escape. Or one of their lieutenants. Or one of the people who crucially supported a revolutionary vote in some turning point in history. Every time you see a pathetic pointless man who pours all of his creative energy into improving some commodity that the capitalist machine god can then sell back to him in knockoff plastic form for 25 years, like Counter-Strike or a modding website for The Elder Scrolls or a movie review website, you are seeing the human spirit trying to burst out of the husk of oldness and create something truly new out of existing materials, but only being able to find commodified kitsch among "existing materials," and eventually giving up on the nagging suspicion that true newness would require going beyond the kitsch. Eventually there will be only kitsch.

[Anonymous No.10286710]

>>10286702
what about retards that write multi-paragraph posts on 4chan? what of them?

[Anonymous No.10286725]

>>10286702
>Every time you see a pathetic pointless man who pours all of his creative energy into improving some commodity that the capitalist machine god can then sell back to him in knockoff plastic form for 25 years, like Counter-Strike or a modding website for The Elder Scrolls or a movie review website

i don't like your marxist inflections but otherwise i relate to this completely... it is so sad to see how much talent and energy is wasted on time-wasting crap, and its only getting worse

[Anonymous No.10286728]

>>10286725
read marx

[Anonymous No.10286731]

>>10286671

basically.

all routes to traditional masculinity are closed when the meaning of "independence" essentially implies "find a boss to felate"

[Anonymous No.10286734]

>>10286731
>boss to felate
>tfw attractive female boss
Nothing would make me more happy

[Anonymous No.10286735]

>>10286613
the culture industry won see: >>10286671

[Anonymous No.10286737]

>>10286682
I was thinking about that. I see on Social media of people flaunting how bad cooks they are. Perhaps it was in jest, but shouldn't you be slightly ashamed of how bad you are at cooking? I am bad at math, like embarrassingly bad, but I don't highlight my incompetence because I am shameful of it.

[Anonymous No.10286740]

>>10286701
yeah, but I need the circle jerk tonight.

[Anonymous No.10286745]

>>10286702
well fuck
that's depressing

[Anonymous No.10286747]

>>10286737
Exactly
People say all the time “ lol I’m bad at math but who needs it?” because jokes turn to seriousness
Gaming and anime used to be niche but now they are common

[Anonymous No.10286750]

>>10286613
They're atheists.

[Anonymous No.10286758]

>>10286747
Now I do enjoy some self-deprecating humour, but not to the extent "we almost burnt down the house XD"

If I almost burnt down my house I probably wouldn't be so adamant about sharing that with the world.

[Anonymous No.10286761]

>spend five minutes attempting to formulate an answer before I realize I can't really talk because I myself fit the definition

[Anonymous No.10286762]

>>10286710
>he commented on it without even reading it
>>>/facebook/

[Anonymous No.10286770]

>>10286761
not to worry, literally everyone who spends enough time on a computer to browse 4chan, much less browse /lit/, much less comment on /lit/ fits the definition

[Anonymous No.10286777]

>>10286686
This is true, /his/ is overrun with /pol/, it is disgusting to see. Not because of the racism, I myself am racist, but the level of discourse they bring is so low. You can tell they came straight from r/donald, either that or they connect literally everything to contemporary politics, and not in an insightful way. Seeing the state of /his/ makes me feel protectful of this board, we need to turn up the pretension for vetting purposes

[Anonymous No.10286780]

>>10286750
this

atheists also love coarse language, blasphemy and gratuitous violence/sex for its own sake in tv shows/films like juveniles

funfact: the guy in OP's picture has "Sin" in his youtube handle. bad trees reap bad fruits

[Anonymous No.10286783]

>>10286777
>This is true, /his/ is overrun with /pol/,
have you seen /lit/ catalog?

[Anonymous No.10286807]

>>10286686
i think the smartest people online are on twitter, but its definitely easier to have a reasonably thoughtful convo here. in that regard i doubt theres a better public forum; maybe the comments section of a few obscure late-00s blogs, but nothing with this degree of visibility.

>>10286613
>natural steps
>natural
on what grounds do you make this claim? there have always been more parishioners than seminarians

[Anonymous No.10286809]

>>10286613
For the majority their childhood was the most enjoyable time of their lives, these people have always existed however and only with the invention of the internet do you see them so often.

[Anonymous No.10286853]

ITT: classic /lit/ condescension


People delve into 'manchild media' because it's fun and easily acessible, making for a good deal of escapism. Autists in this board want you to believe you should be reading fucking Mainländer after your 10-hour shift at Target and dreadful night classes at community college. Not everyone has an interest in middle/high brow art or "ever-edifying" media.

[Anonymous No.10286867]

>>10286780
But fucking dude and dudettes it's fucking edgy! Those fucking SJW cunts don't fucking know how to fucking make a fucking good fucking video my dude!!!! you fucking gotta fucking swear every fucking second my dude!!! yeah!!! fucking slayer fucking rocks dude!!!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUfRUY3Wsxw

[Anonymous No.10286871]

>>10286807
Is it too much to say that as the body matures so does the mind, and with it the agencies and fields that would promote further maturation?

[Anonymous No.10286899]

>>10286613
It's all to perpetuate consuption
the Nerd is the perfect capitalist, he's willing to spend tons of his wages on utterly useless trivial shit in order to pose and gains status with his fellows, as it stands now, its an identity entirely built around material consumption and display of said conspicuous waste

[Anonymous No.10286921]

>>10286899
ive read this sentence before.? was it on twitter, or did it just sprout organically on lit? i know for sure this isn't the first time i've seen it

[Anonymous No.10286928]

>>10286702
This

[Anonymous No.10287043]

>>10286702
>reddit spacing
didn't read

[Anonymous No.10287098]

>being so oblivious that you don't consider yourself a manchild despite dedicating your life to fictional stories

[Anonymous No.10287113]

Video games offer a way for men to exercise their drive for success/dominance in an environment with no risks. The reward pathways for the brain don't discriminate between real-life and video games, so the success in a video game will still fire up the dopamine even if it is just in response to completing a level or winning a match in a competitive game. To gain success in the real world generally entails risks and responsibilities, confrontation and criticism, high expectations for continued success. None of these a present in video games—you can quit a game whenever you want, restart with no penalties; you can satisfy your goal oriented drives with no investments beyond time. Constant novel experiences, constant exposure to new skills and challenges, all in the safe confines of what is essentially a meticulously constructed Skinner box. With such a finely tailored and rewarding sink for your energy, why strive to perfect other pursuits? pursuits which may take months or years to attain a reward from, if there ever is a reward.

[Anonymous No.10287115]

Find a job you like and you'll never work a day in your life. Public manchilding is a form of this. (Video game and nerd channels)

No one wants to be their corporate soulless husk of a dad. Yet they must find a way to eat.

Really, the whole maturity trip is a sham. You weren't expected to live past forty. Most modern Americans are only one or two generations removed from the farm, How quickly we adapt and forget.

As soon as you drop hunter gatherer and start farming the whole species is doomed to slavery and extinction. How mature is it to destroy the ecosystem with fossil fuels and garbage? I don't see much maturity (wisdom) employed anywhere.

[Anonymous No.10287120]

>>10286783
You don't know how bad it can get man. You'd think one would get the boards confused after switching between threads with such similar topics but you can immediately tell /his/ apart by posters

[Anonymous No.10287121]

>>10286613

Trying to fill a hole created by capitalism. Also, brands and merchandising.

[Anonymous No.10287133]

>>10286853
>People delve into 'manchild media' because it's fun and easily acessible
>Not everyone has an interest in middle/high brow art
Yes anon and that makes them idiots who are lesser than us. It sounds like you can identify with consuming empty juvenile media because it's "funner". If you actually understood literature and poetry you'd know that isn't the case at all. You're supposed to love this stuff, if you are forcing yourself to read Proust or Melville than it was never meant for you in the first place

[Anonymous No.10287135]

>>10286702
>Every time you see a pathetic pointless man who pours all of his creative energy into improving some commodity that the capitalist machine god can then sell back to him in knockoff plastic form for 25 years, like Counter-Strike or a modding website for The Elder Scrolls or a movie review website, you are seeing the human spirit trying to burst out of the husk of oldness and create something truly new out of existing materials, but only being able to find commodified kitsch among "existing materials," and eventually giving up on the nagging suspicion that true newness would require going beyond the kitsch. Eventually there will be only kitsch.

I'm starting to realise this more and more. And another thing that I think we need to consider is that morality is fundamentally communal, and capitalism has done nothing but make any sense of a coherent "community" impossible. We're all atomised consumers with no framework for right moral conduct.

[Anonymous No.10287139]

>>10287115
>That fucking spacing

[Anonymous No.10287140]

>>10287139
>>10287043
why do 4channers hate well formatted posts?

[Anonymous No.10287144]

>>10287135
Yeah I actually agree with a lot of Marx's critique, I just can't get behind the greater conception of giving power to the uneducated masses and the idpol critical theory that is so often bound up with it in contemporary circles

[Anonymous No.10287145]

>>10287133
>Yes anon and that makes them idiots who are lesser than us.
t. condescending idiot and overall loser
reading books don't make you better than a nintendo ds-playing neckbeard. in fact, you're the one bothering with their lifestyles, which makes me think you're the biggest loser here

[Anonymous No.10287147]

>>10286853
This tbqhwyf. There isn't much more to it than convenience, "dumb" fun and complete lack of self-control in some individuals. All the cringeworthy blame shifting attempts at "le soulless corporate culture" ITT are hilariously pathetic. The marxist should unironically neck himself.

[Anonymous No.10287153]

>>10286867
I can't believe this guy is talking without a shred of irony about other people's opinions and interests being stupid without thinking about his own life once. That whole video is very sad.

[Anonymous No.10287157]

>>10286853
>>10287145
>>10287147
We're not criticising man-children, we're criticising the fact that people feel the need to be that way. Man-children are the victims here. No one here is feeling superior to a guy for loving BF2, we feel sad for him instead.

[Anonymous No.10287170]

>>10287157
>we
>we
>we
me you tard, talk about yourself instead of trying to fit anonymous opinions into an image you created

[Anonymous No.10287171]

>>10287157
>not criticising man-children
Neither do the posts your replied to defend them.
>hur dur society is completely to blame for someone being a certain way
Neck yourself.
>No one here is feeling superior to a guy for loving BF2, we feel sad for him instead.
Extreme ironing.
>we we we we
Please go back to crabbit.

[Anonymous No.10287174]

>>10287157
>we're criticising the fact that people feel the need to be that way.
>Man-children are the victims here.
>we feel sad for him instead

Kill yourself, you patronizing, stuck-up nerd
It's like some of you guys are attempting to play the perfect stereotype of the smug intellectual
I know many 'manchildren' who lead fulfilling lifes, enjoying their hobbies and their families. Could you say the same about yourself?

[Anonymous No.10287175]

>>10287140
it's a newfag meme, probably from /pol/ or something, just ignore it

[Anonymous No.10287178]

>>10287175
probably the same dudes who condescend to phoneposters

[Anonymous No.10287180]

>>10287174
>I know many 'manchildren' who lead fulfilling lifes, enjoying their hobbies and their families. Could you say the same about yourself?
https://youtu.be/apc85Cp4lQQ?t=3m43s

[Anonymous No.10287188]

>>10287180
oh the irony
YOU are the one trying to tell people not to masturbate, not the manchildren

[Anonymous No.10287191]

>>10287180
>Could you say the same about yourself?
><youtube video>
A simple no would have sufficed.

[Anonymous No.10287199]

>>10287145
>reading books don't make you better than a nintendo ds-playing neckbeard
Oh but it does, in fact my literary depth and aesthetic sensibility makes me better than nearly everyone, including you.

[Anonymous No.10287204]

>>10287147
>"dumb" fun
Dumb fun is for dumb people

[Anonymous No.10287207]

>>10286667
Plausible theory tbph

[Anonymous No.10287209]

>>10287147
>>10287145
>>10287174
>pseuds pretending to tolerate lower forms of media to ignore their own pretention

lol

[Anonymous No.10287213]

>>10286613
If this guy's shelf was full of /lit/ approved books, would you say he isn't a manchild? Assume his lifestyle, whatever it is, is otherwise identical.

[Anonymous No.10287215]

>>10287204
>>10287199
>Dumb fun is for dumb people
Beethoven went to the tavern to shoot the shit with the peasants all the time
Derrida wanted to be a soccer player for a while

You are not smart, you're just pretentious

[Anonymous No.10287228]

>>10287213
The Battlefront poster seals the deal. It is immature to like SW beyond the Trilogy. The Trilogy is forgivable, but only if you grew up with it.

[Anonymous No.10287238]

>>10287215
Those anecdotes are hardly even relevant to the specific subject and wouldn't mean much if they did. Bar conversation and sports couldn't be more different than video games and nerd culture

[Anonymous No.10287241]

>>10287215
Having a rowdy night drinking and playing soccer are not dumb things to do. Dedicating your life to childish, mass-produced hobbies is.

[Anonymous No.10287242]

>>10287238
>if they did
If they were*

[Anonymous No.10287244]

>>10287213
I'll tell you when I see it which will be never because they are nearly incompatible

[Anonymous No.10287245]

>>10287241
>drinking and playing soccer
>not childish, mass-produced hobbies

[Anonymous No.10287248]

>>10287238
>>10287241
>no true dumb activity
just lol @ u

[Anonymous No.10287253]

>>10287248
>just lol @ u
>vague implication
No u lol how will you recover

[Anonymous No.10287254]

>>10287244
You honestly think reading books is incompatible with being a fucking loser? Do you think everyone who posts on /lit/ is a professor or some enlightened philosopher king? They're the same faggots who post on /tv/ and /co/ except they like books.

[Anonymous No.10287259]

>>10287215
>You are not smart, you're just pretentious
this tbqh

[Anonymous No.10287263]

>>10287248
>>10287245
You IDIOTS implied a bunch of garbage after I accurately said drinking with the working class and playing soccer are done by much different people than video games and nerd culture. Try and READ next time this is a lit board

[Anonymous No.10287267]

>>10287263
that's not the matter at hand, retard
we're dealing with the difference between "dumb" fun and "smart" fun

[Anonymous No.10287277]

>>10287254
>You honestly think reading books is incompatible with being a fucking loser?
That's not what anyone is saying, but way to diminish the study of history, literature, poetry and philosophy to "reading books". maybe it is for you pleb, but I am constantly engaged with the world and collective repository of the greatest human thought, which does make me better than people who do not. The pretension is well deserved

[Anonymous No.10287283]

>>10287267
I wouldn't call sports and conversation dumb fun. That has tangible benefit and requires effort, the negation of which defines empty media consumption

[Anonymous No.10287285]

This is such a stupid thread.
You could never get the same kind of satisfaction there is in getting a Invoker combo right in Dota 2 by reading books, as you could never experience great prose in a fucking movie. You're probably gay for depriving yourself of such feelings in any way

[Anonymous No.10287286]

I've delivered goods to all incomes and most houses now look like dorm rooms. Those that don't have a traditional living room, but go deeper and you'll find a mancave that does.

There is a wider perspective to be had. I mean, there's more to it.

Why can't modern females cook? They still have to eat. One in three Americans don't know how to boil an egg, yet they are all free to reproduce at will. Millions of dollars made showing others how to apply makeup. What's the difference? It's still object identification whether it's action figures or appearance.

And some want to say Death Culture isn't a factor?

[Anonymous No.10287287]

>>10287277
>consuming certain kind of goods makes me better than other people
Didn't seem to make you any less retarded apparently.

[Anonymous No.10287289]

>>10287285
>getting a Invoker combo right
Please, get back to gulag, 2k shitter scum.

[Anonymous No.10287290]

>>10287283
Sorry, buddy, but kicking a fucking ball and having unintelligible chit chat with 50-year old drunkards is archetypal dumb fun, there's no way to twist this. You're just triggered by a particular subset of dumbfun (nerd shit) because it's not in line with your aspirations to a "literary lifestyle"

[Anonymous No.10287294]

>>10287277
>maybe it is for you pleb, but I am constantly engaged with the world and collective repository of the greatest human thought, which does make me better than people who do not. The pretension is well deserved
Note the absence of any claim to being virtuous, having exceptional skills, or contributing anything of value to society. This person's entire self worth is based on reading books. And he thinks he's any different than some autist who plays World of Warcraft 24/7.

[Anonymous No.10287303]

>>10287289
t. smug 3k subhuman

[Anonymous No.10287305]

>>10287294
>being virtuous, having exceptional skills, or contributing anything of value to society.
And not seeing the absurdity of comparing Warcraft to literature ends your remaining credibility

[Anonymous No.10287307]

>>10287283
anon
people have conversations about nerd shit

[Anonymous No.10287312]

>>10286777
/pol/ isn't the real problem with /his/, /int/ posting is. Not saying /pol/ isn't an issue, just that/his/ is literally /int2.0/.

[Anonymous No.10287313]

>>10287287
>Equating literature to consuming "goods"
I don't even need to put in effort anymore you plebs are outing yourself

[Anonymous No.10287316]

>>10287305
>posts Stirner
>doesn't realize >>10287277 is the epitome of a spooked post

[Anonymous No.10287318]

COINTELPRO thread

[Anonymous No.10287322]

The only way to escape this trap is to identify with consciousness instead of thoughts.
>Muh intellect
is still identifying with the thought of being a smart person. Spiritual intelligence is the coin of the formless.

[Anonymous No.10287323]

>>10287316
>Hasn't actually read Stirner

[Anonymous No.10287324]

>>10287305
>>10287313
>hehe baited xD lulul plebs

[Anonymous No.10287330]

>>10287324
You did it to yourself doug

[Anonymous No.10287333]

>>10287305
>stirner
oh, I get it now. we're talking with an underage memester

>spoopy XDD

[Anonymous No.10287338]

>>10287333
Read him as a response to Feurebach and precursor to Marx's German Ideology. I wouldn't expect you to recognize his significance outside of memes though

[Anonymous No.10287343]

>>10287338
>read
get out of /lit/

[Anonymous No.10287359]

Humans aren't serious about stopping climate collapse. Maybe we are such a a self loathing lot that we'd prefer to die out. Or we despise the cultures we create to such a degree we'd rather not imagine colonizing other worlds.

[Anonymous No.10287371]

>>10287359
>(((climate collapse)))