Norm Macdonald's "Don't Bother With" list

[Anonymous No.10275165]

I always knew Norm was a voracious reader but I didn't know he posted about it online. Apparently he only reads classical lit and has made a list of stuff that people should avoid. What are your thoughts on Norm's list?
>Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
>Darkness At Noon by Arthur Koestler
>The Way Of All Flesh by Samuel Batler
>1984 by George Orwell
>Slaughter House Five by Kurt Vonnegut
>The Wings Of The Dove by Henry James
>The Ambassadors by Henry James
>Animal Farm by George Orwell
>Howards End by E.M. Forster
>Point Counter Point by Aldous Huxley
>Zuleika Dobson by Max Beerbohm
>From Here To Eternity by James Jones
>A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess
>The Prime Of Miss Jean Brodie by Muriel Spark
>Under The Net by Iris Murdoch
>The Postman Always Rings Twice by James M Cain

[Anonymous No.10275170]

inb4 real jerk

[Anonymous No.10275195]

>>10275165
Seems good to me

[Anonymous No.10275211]

>hates both Huxley and Orwell

Based as fuck.

[Anonymous No.10275215]

A moth goes into a podiatrist’s office, and the podiatrist’s office says, “What seems to be the problem, moth?”

The moth says “What’s the problem? Where do I begin, man? I go to work for Gregory Illinivich, and all day long I work. Honestly doc, I don’t even know what I’m doing anymore. I don’t even know if Gregory Illinivich knows. He only knows that he has power over me, and that seems to bring him happiness. But I don’t know, I wake up in a malaise, and I walk here and there… at night I…I sometimes wake up and I turn to some old lady in my bed that’s on my arm. A lady that I once loved, doc. I don’t know where to turn to. My youngest, Alexendria, she fell in the…in the cold of last year. The cold took her down, as it did many of us. And my other boy, and this is the hardest pill to swallow, doc. My other boy, Gregarro Ivinalititavitch… I no longer love him. As much as it pains me to say, when I look in his eyes, all I see is the same cowardice that I… that I catch when I take a glimpse of my own face in the mirror. If only I wasn’t such a coward, then perhaps…perhaps I could bring myself to reach over to that cocked and loaded gun that lays on the bedside behind me and end this hellish facade once and for all…Doc, sometimes I feel like a spider, even though I’m a moth, just barely hanging on to my web with an everlasting fire underneath me. I’m not feeling good. And so the doctor says, “Moth, man, you’re troubled. But you should be seeing a psychiatrist. Why on earth did you come here?”
"Well I wanted to tell you this joke" says the moth
"What joke"
"

Larry Lobster and Sam Clam where best friends. They did everything together. The only difference between them is that Larry was the nicest Lobster ever and Sam, well lets just say he was not so good. Larry and Sam did so much together that they even died together.

Larry went to heaven and Sam went to hell.

Larry was doing well in heaven and one day St. Peter came up to him and said, "Larry, you know you are the nicest clam we ever had up here. Everyone likes you but you seem to be a bit depressed.

Tell me what is bothering you, maybe I can help."

Larry said, "Well, don't get me wrong Pete, I like it up here and everything, but I really miss my good friend Sam Clam. We used to do everything together and I really miss him a lot."

St. Peter looked at Larry with pity and said to him, "I tell you what, I can arrange it so that you can go down to hell tomorrow and visit Sam all day. How would that sound?"

This made Larry very happy and he got up bright and early the next morning and grabbed his wings, his harp, and his halo and got in the elevator to hell. When the doors opened he was met by Sam. The hugged each other and they were off. You see in Hell Sam owned a disco. The spent the day there together and had a great time. At the end of the day Larry and Sam went back to the elevator and

[Anonymous No.10275216]

i dont agree with ignoring orwell or burgess
if anything on the basis that they are extremely short 1-3 day novels
literally no commitment

[Anonymous No.10275220]

Why don't people like Slaughter House Five?

[Anonymous No.10275247]

Seems like hes trying to stop people going down a generic path rather than calling the books bad.

[Anonymous No.10275251]

>>10275220
I would also like to know this
>>10275247
It sounds like he doesn't like them. "Don't bother with" makes it seem like he's saying they are not worth the readers time.

[Anonymous No.10275255]

>>10275251

I just gave you the answer and you immediately go back to the comfort of kneejerk hating.

[Anonymous No.10275257]

>>10275255
??? What answer? I'm not hating. What are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.10275261]

He also had a few recommendations:
http://normsbookclub.org/Essen.php

[Anonymous No.10275270]

>>10275165
That's a fine enough list of works that don't add to your soul

Many of them have strong political/social messages, which tend to undermine the artistry of things

[Anonymous No.10275282]

>>10275165
these are all good entry level books that i assume all of us read while in high school, and for that purpose they are good - but he's correct, they're all overrated

[Anonymous No.10275294]

>>10275261
>recommends Pevear and Volokonsky

fucking DROPPED

[Anonymous No.10275299]

>>10275165
That doesn't sound too b-
>Translators for Russian books: Richard Pevear & Larissa Volokhonsky

[Anonymous No.10275307]

>>10275294
>>10275299
>read your posts
>check who my book was translated by
Fug. What's so bad about them? Who would you guys recommend?

[Anonymous No.10275314]

>>10275307
Two reasons:
1. They try to retain as much of the original content and sentence structure as possible, which makes their English renderings really awkward
2. Volokonsky, Pevear's mail order bride, is only semi-literate in English (seriously, not joking)

[Anonymous No.10275330]

>>10275314
>2. Volokonsky
A more important point is Pevear being not-even-a-little-bit literate in Russian

>>10275307
Depends on the book. Sometimes the alternatives are worse than P&V, but they're a terrible general recommendation.

[Anonymous No.10275333]

>>10275330
>A more important point is Pevear being not-even-a-little-bit literate in Russian
Aha, I forgot about that

[Anonymous No.10275334]

>>10275282
they arent over rated if being accessible or concise is a metric you consider having importance
also the list seems really random. zuleika dobson is great. and 1984 and animal farm are great. regardless of ""difficulty""

telling people to avoid easy to read books under 400 pages is kind of retarded.
you can finish these texts in a week reading an hour a day.

[Anonymous No.10275341]

Garnett is superior, amirite?

[Anonymous No.10275344]

>>10275215
Finish the fucking story, man! What about the CLAMS?

[Anonymous No.10275369]

>>10275299
My favourite /lit/ meme is how everyone here hates P&V and then shills translators like Lattimore.

[Anonymous No.10275390]

>>10275307
Nothing bad about that translation. It's cool to hate on it now because some edgy kid wrote a blog post full with ad homini towards PV. You can easily find it once you search for 'Pevear & Volokhonsky'.

Academics say PV is the most accurate. But they don't actually read Russian right?

[Anonymous No.10275397]

>>10275369
Or Garnett, who admitted herself she just left out parts she didn't understand

PV is endorsed by most experts

[Anonymous No.10275399]

>>10275397
>>10275390
>Academics say PV is the most accurate. But they don't actually read Russian right?
Those who endorse PV actually don't

[Anonymous No.10275451]

>>10275215
>>10275344
At the end of the day Larry and Sam went back to the elevator together said their goodbyes and Larry got back in the elevator and went up to heaven. He stepped off the elevator and was greeted by St. Peter who blocked the doorway to heaven. He looked at Larry and said, "Larry Lobster, didn't you forget something?"

Larry looked around and said, "No, I don't think so I have my halo and my wings."
St. Peter looked at him and said, "Yes, but what about your harp?"

Larry gasped and said, "I Left My Harp in Sam Clam's Disco."

[Anonymous No.10275456]

Why would I listen to what a retarded Trumpcuck comedian has to say? What's his credentials?

[Anonymous No.10275459]

>>10275451
Legend has it he just drives around and steals jokes from foreign cabbies
he's admitted to it even, but people just think it's a joke

[Anonymous No.10275476]

>underrating Henry James

[Anonymous No.10275523]

>>10275451
>Larry gasped and said, "I Left My Harp in Sam Clam's Disco."
fucking kek

[Anonymous No.10275531]

>>10275165
Norms brilliant and quick to recite bits of poetry, but Orwell does not belong on that list.

[Anonymous No.10275562]

>>10275531
he's a bum, get real

[Anonymous No.10275589]

I love Norm, he's a funny ass bastard. I swear his stand up and sense of humor comes from laughing at the crowd

[Anonymous No.10276052]

>>10275220
>>10275251
because vonnegut is reddit

[Anonymous No.10276055]

>>10275261
>Translators for Russian books: Richard Pevear & Larissa Volokhonsky

How can I take him seriously when he fell for the P&V meme?

[Anonymous No.10276067]

>>10275165
what a flaming faggot

[Anonymous No.10276122]

>>10275456
>trumpcuck
Is Norm really a trump supporter? I didn't know that. sauce?

[Anonymous No.10276145]

>>10275451
>>10275523
Whats the joke?
Explain it to me, please

[Anonymous No.10276147]

>>10276122
He's not. He's simply more in awe of his Judeo-Christian roots and less dismissive of metaphysical leaps. Which makes him more of a centrist/conservative than the majority of this board would like him to be.

He's also lived a little, which hopefully most of /lit/ will find later, actually helps.

[Anonymous No.10276148]

>>10276122
I think Norm is probably a moderate conservative, not an outright Trump supporter but not a rabid anti-Trumper either. IIRC he's repeatedly urged people on twitter to calm down and give Trump a chance because he thinks Trump ran with the best intentions.

[Anonymous No.10276152]

>>10276145
the entire joke is a set-up for the punchline which is a play on 'I left my heart in San Francisco'

basically it's an elaborate Carlos joke

[Anonymous No.10276160]

>>10276152
Makes sense I guess.

No idea what I left my heart in San Francisco is.

>But I'm not american

[Anonymous No.10276163]

>>10276160
>No idea what I left my heart in San Francisco is.
It's a famous song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMLgATv1sjc

[Anonymous No.10276174]

>>10275165
I bet he's against The Postman Always Rings Twice for some stupid, BS reason like its sympathetic to adulterers, completely misunderstanding it.

[Anonymous No.10276181]

>>10276174
Nevermind. I misread that as Kevin MacDonald. Seems like just a random list of basic starter books that most people read when first starting to get into literature.

[Anonymous No.10276184]

What is wrong with Henry James?

[Anonymous No.10276263]

>>10275397
i don't want to read any damn work that is endorsed by experts

[Anonymous No.10276279]

>>10275307
It varies by book. The only one I remember off the top of my head is that for Dr Zhivago, you want the Hayward and Harari.

But really just learn to читaть пo-pyccкий

[Anonymous No.10276298]

>>10275330
>depends on the book
I've been reading the brothers karamazov. How's their translation? I haven't noticed any issues but I don't really have anything to compare it to.

[Anonymous No.10276321]

>>10275307
Every translation has a ton of people that shit on it. PV and Garnett are the standards for a reason, they do a good job despite minor issues. Compare paragraphs side by side and they'll be nearly identical.
I asked a Dostoevsky-obsessed professor from Russia what the best translation of TBK was and he said PV, he'd read four different ones.

[Anonymous No.10276334]

>>10276298
McDuff or Avsey. Garnett's translation is horrid, and every real scholar of Russian literature I've met has told me that they're convinced P&V use a machine translator and then clean it up afterwards

[Anonymous No.10276339]

r e v e r s e p s y c h o l o g y

[Anonymous No.10276349]

>>10275215
The one about 'keeping all your eggs in one basket' is best

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy-FBbAYSMc

[Anonymous No.10276495]

>>10276334
Not him, but I also just picked up brothers K translated by P&V. if I just stick with this version what will I miss?

[Anonymous No.10276504]

>>10276495
>>10276334
Btw, not a Russian scholar by any means, more of a filthy casual when it comes to lit, so realistically, what will I miss being the brainlet I am?

[Anonymous No.10276535]

>>10276504
I'm not that guy but I'm like 500 pages into the P&V version and I haven't really noticed anything out of place. I think it's a fine version to read to start with. If you find out about a better translation down the road then you can just read that version.

[Anonymous No.10276544]

I like Norm more as an Internet dad more than Peterson

[Anonymous No.10276552]

>>10276339
Come on, anon, we all know Norm is always very straightforward.

[Anonymous No.10276562]

>BTFO's trannies on his podcast
>Named the jew during his white house dinner routine
>Is aware of (((David Greenspan))) and the (((Federal Reserve)))
>Jokes about Hitler a lot
>Has obvious disdain for feminists
I like Norm. He is old /pol/ af

[Anonymous No.10276566]

>>10276544
>Liberals always project
Neat

[Anonymous No.10276572]

>>10275456
>his credentials
He's talking about books, not anything important

[Anonymous No.10276577]

>>10276562
>David Greenspan
*Alan Greenspan

[Anonymous No.10276579]

>Batler
Norm wouldn't get that wrong even if he did dislike it.

[Anonymous No.10276582]

>>10276184

a lot, but he shouldnt be on a list like this, both those books are worth reading for james's use of language

id knock off james jones as well

[Anonymous No.10276584]

>>10276535
Why do people who don't speak the original language feel the need to comment on translations?

[Anonymous No.10276591]

>>10276584
Ask /a/

[Anonymous No.10276594]

>>10276184
It's probably not James, but those books specifically. James himself sort of denounced Wings as an incomplete effort.

[Anonymous No.10276618]

>>10276584
How many Russian speakers do you think are on here? Obviously people should go with the translation that has been well recieved as opposed to some moon rune translation recommended by contrarians on an potato alphabetizing image board.

[Anonymous No.10276853]

>>10276160
it is considered the signature song of Tony Bennet; not that there's any good reason for you to know who that is (even if you were american.) But unlike most of his peers, who are mostly dead or forgotten, he is still considered relevant and has a "cool" image.

Particularly for people Norm's age or older, the song would be common knowledge.

[Anonymous No.10276923]

>>10275459
my favorite jokes to tell are the ones I heard on the elementary school-yard. as long as you know how to tell a joke, you can get big laughs. any joke you can actually remember from back then, chances are its a good joke.

[Anonymous No.10276933]

>>10276618
>How many Russian speakers do you think are on here?
This is completely unrelated to my original question. If you don't know shit you keep your mouth shut. Doesn't matter whether there are or are no Russian speakers around here.

>Obviously people should go with the translation that has been well recieved as opposed to some moon rune translation recommended by contrarians on an potato alphabetizing image board.
Do you have schizophrenia?

[Anonymous No.10276962]

>>10276933
Lurk more newfag

[Anonymous No.10276971]

>>10276562
>this is the difference
okay

[Anonymous No.10276976]

The question is, who does Norm know so much about holocaust revisionism?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z3K6o99M5c

[Anonymous No.10276999]

>>10275390
"Accurate" is a meme

[Anonymous No.10277021]

>>10275165

"I'm a Serious Reader, and you should only bother with Serious Fiction."

Lost a bit of respect for Norm. Odd coming from a comic, too.

[Anonymous No.10277071]

>>10275211
>Orwell
what's wrong with Orwell?

[Anonymous No.10277080]

>>10275165
Just don't read the 20th century.

[Anonymous No.10277087]

>>10275165
typical smarmy hipster 'I hate everything' shit - say what you DO like and put yourself out there to be criticised, you slurring drug addicted popinjay

[Anonymous No.10277089]

>>10277080
This, go from Melville straigh to Tao Lin

[Anonymous No.10277094]

Its not bad to read any of these books. It's not bad to enjoy any of these books. It's not bad at all to hold any of these books up as your favourites. What is bad is not digging any deeper than these books. I think that's what Norm is trying to say, but obviously the most pretensions of folk here would take that at face value (Logo Daedalus, the list goes on...).

[Anonymous No.10277095]

>>10276148
he soesn't seem very knowledgable on or engaged with politics and takes that 'the truth is somewhere in the middle on every single issue' stance that celebrities dependent upon a paying audience now all have to.

[Anonymous No.10277107]

>>10277094
>Its not bad to read any of these books
BZZZ! THINK AGAIN, BUCKO.

[Anonymous No.10277110]

>>10276933
Stfu pseud, a translation is judged by many criteria and you dont need deep knowledge of both languages to form an opinion. Please pseud somewhere else, I'd suggest reddit.

[Anonymous No.10277112]

>>10277021
I just gained respect for him

[Anonymous No.10277156]

>>10275165
Sounds like a pretentious fag, I bet he browses /lit/

[Anonymous No.10277162]

Can confirmed that 1984 was a bore

[Anonymous No.10277172]

>>10277095
He has some pretty out there beliefs. He doesn't believe that smoking causes cancer and he was a little skeptical of evolution without outright denying it.

[Anonymous No.10277792]

>>10277095
>that 'the truth is somewhere in the middle on every single issue' stance that celebrities dependent upon a paying audience now all have to.
but being anti Drumpf is profitable now

[Anonymous No.10277956]

You people are stunningly retarded. Especially the ones who claim to be familiar with the man's work.

The list is a joke. A joke. Do you think he'd waste time writing a very specific list of books one should NOT read? Jesus, you people really are autists.

[Anonymous No.10277965]

>>10277956
It isn't a joke you retard. He is very passionate and opinionated about literature. Just look up his the "norms book club" twitter page. Dude tweets out shit almost every day. Read through it and you'll get an idea of his thoughts on /lit/. Why would he do something like that every day on an account with such a small following if it was just a joke?

[Anonymous No.10278004]

>>10275220
he really doesnt have prose to write home about
also I always thought the sensibilities are really transparent and simple. describing everything as if it were through the perspective of like a child or seomthing, really grating and cringey. I remember one part, he describes trains whistling as they pass one another like "They were saying hello to each other :))))))))"

[Anonymous No.10278019]

>>10277965
Oh, so you're saying it's a list devised by those who frequent "norm's book club" twitter page and make assumptions about his literary taste based on the compressed thought nuggets he shares on the matter. So a fan-made list so to speak. Well, my comment about autism still stands.

If the man had written such a list himself though, it would certainly be a joke.

[Anonymous No.10278089]

>>10276321
Garnett is not the standard for anyone. She is just everywhere because she is in the public domain so it is super cheap for mega publishers to print out mass market paperbacks of her old poorly translated and heavily edited version.

>>10275341
She is the only translation that doesn't work. All other translations are more or less equal but she is objectively inferior.

[Anonymous No.10278121]

>>10275165
The two I disagree with are Point Counter Point, which is both a wonderful satire and tragedy, and Zuleika Dobson, a strange satire on life as a student at Oxford that is really in a league of its own. I assume a lot of it went over Norm's head, because I would have expected him to enjoy it.

Aside from those two I agree with the list.

[Anonymous No.10278137]

>>10276334
Former Russian Minor here. All but one of the professional scholars of Russian literature that I have met have used and endorsed P&V (the one exception used Magarshack).

[Anonymous No.10278174]

>>10278019
No Norm runs the site. Look up his book club twitter, he's discussing the razor's edge right now and doesn't seem to like it.

[Anonymous No.10278183]

>>10275165

Norm MacDonald is not an authority or really insightful.

>"huhuh he's fanny"

Really makes me think.

[Anonymous No.10278455]

>>10278183
I presume that Norm MacDonald is more intelligent then most of the people on this board

[Anonymous No.10278465]

>>10275531
>>10275562
1984 and Animal Farm are pleb-tier but A Homage to Catalonia and The Road to Wigan Pier are pretty good desu

[Anonymous No.10278480]

>>10278455
Honestly wouldn't surprise me, he always seems to be hiding his full hand.

[Anonymous No.10278490]

>>10278455

That's not a very big accomplishment, to be honest.

[Anonymous No.10278501]

>>10276321
>from Russia

[Anonymous No.10278529]

>>10278501
Yeah? A Russian would know the most about the original text.

[Anonymous No.10278535]

>>10278137

I really liked my Magarshack translation of Anna Karenina. And my Ivan Ilyich is Solotaroff.

[Anonymous No.10278681]

>>10275390
>full with ad homini towards PV
I don't think you know what that term means

[Anonymous No.10278685]

>>10278455
not really, he thought Stendhal was a guy that owned a museum that made people freak out

t. WTF interview. it's played straight.

[Anonymous No.10278753]

>>10275220
super major entry level pomo

[Anonymous No.10278764]

>>10275165
>trashing all this highschool reading list shit like Orwell, SH5, and Clockwork Orange makes me edgy, different, and intelligent! I'm not a sheep intellectual like these english teacher shills, fifteen year old kids, and 'normies'

yeah typical "insightful" comedian here. reminder that television comedy is literature for people with ADHD

[Anonymous No.10278827]

>>10275165
>>The Postman Always Rings Twice by James M Cain

That's a GREAT crime-noir book.

Norm needs to sort himself out. Clean his fucking room and re-read it.

[Anonymous No.10279282]

>>10278681
"He doesn't speak Russian" isn't ad hominem? :^)