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/lit/ - Literature

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1018305 No.1018305 [Reply] [Original]

>> No.1018309
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1018309

I am okay with this.

>> No.1018314

Film should be above literature.

>> No.1018316

almost raged, but not quite
you kinda sorta had me going

books > movies > anime >>> video games = tv shows

>> No.1018317

>anime above video games
>tv shows above movies
>oh you.jpg

also, where are comic books/manga? do they count as books?

>> No.1018320

>implying tv shows are not shit tier and video games are not mid tier

>> No.1018323

>>1018316
>anime >>> video games = tv shows
I don't freaking think so.

>> No.1018324

>>1018317
Everything is above video games no matter what

>> No.1018326

I would switch around movies and TV shows only because the latter tend to have a lot of filler episodes which have no place in solid storytelling.

>> No.1018327

The only offense here is putting TV above movies

>> No.1018328

I'd swap TV with movies.

And bunch anime and vidjee games in shit tier.

>> No.1018329

You do know animes are tv shows?

>> No.1018330
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1018330

Absolutely!

>> No.1018331
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1018331

>>1018305


You forgot music, faggot.

>> No.1018332

>>1018329
Yes, but this is 4chan, a weeaboo website, so we have to give Japanese cartoons its own category

>> No.1018334

Why is anime considered a different medium than TV shows?

>> No.1018335

no storytelling medium is inherently better/worse than another medium, it's just the range of stories they present and whether that fully utilizes the interfaces available to them.

video games for example, they have awesome potential but all you see nowadays are pew pew FPS.

>> No.1018336

Also, if you're older than 10 and seriously like anime, kill yourself.

>> No.1018340

>>1018335

...

Idiot.

>> No.1018345

If you are a living human and you enjoy video game story-lines then kill yourself

>> No.1018349

>>1018345
What should my final words be?

>> No.1018350

>>1018334
part of television is acting. this is basically a trivial part of anime. on the other hand, drawing and visual aesthetic is much more important in anime.
>>1018336
shut it son
>>1018345
yeah p. much

>> No.1018354

>>1018334
a better question is why cartoons isn't grouped with anime.

>> No.1018356

manga > books

Sorry, you lose.

>> No.1018365

ITT: cavemen afraid of progress

much more capable mediums, and therefore better, exist now. Sorry, that's just fact. The quality of storylines is another matter though, and books still wins out in this category.

>> No.1018366

Books and movies have for more potential for experimentation than any other medium. Everything else is a sham.

>> No.1018367

>>1018350

>drawing and visual aesthetic is much more important in anime.

Isn't anime that Japanese cartoon style--loved by autistic, booger-flinging doofuses--in which everybody is drawn exactly the same?

I loved my high school art teachers for pretty much slapping the heads of all the faggots who drew anime in class... "How about you try something original?"

>> No.1018370
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1018370

>>1018329
>>1018317
>>1018323

>> No.1018372

>this shit again
Really guys?
Video games are better suited for horror Imo, but other than that they rely on film to push their stories forward, Valve is very good at actual story telling in games.

>> No.1018375

>>1018367
god i can't believe i'm defending anime in August 2010. shit. anyway.

>everybody is drawn exactly the same

this is true in massed produce / shitty anime, but is not inherent to the genre

>I loved my high school art teachers for pretty much slapping the heads of all the faggots who drew anime in class... "How about you try something original?"

they were shitty artists imitating the stupidest characteristics of really bad anime

also, keep in mind, most anime is really fucking bad

>> No.1018376

>>1018370
I love the Bible

>> No.1018384

>>1018375

Well, I still think anime is pretty gay and will never like it.

I'll also always hate anime-lovers for ruining Adult Swim every Saturday night with their Cowboy Bebop and Little Gay Fag Goes To Gay Town And Turns Into A Ghost.

>> No.1018385

>>1018376

As you should. It's the single most important literary text ever written.

>> No.1018388

>>1018375
I'm sure you love Masaaki Yuasa or whatever but I doubt that guy cares

>> No.1018390

>>1018384
The only adult swim show I watch occasionally is Tim & Eric

>> No.1018394

>>1018385
No.. that's the play Hamlet written by Shakespeare

>> No.1018395

>>1018385
Oh my goodness. Now you've done it.

>> No.1018396
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1018396

>>1018375
Anime used to be art, now it's just cheap pop crap

>> No.1018398

>>1018384
alright, cool, keep doin what you're doin

>> No.1018399

Anime IS tv, and they tell their stories equally well because of this (Clearly some are not story oriented, such as Fucky Star, and the same is true of tv, (e.g. sitcoms))

They both belong in mid tier in my opinion.

>> No.1018402

>>1018394
The Bible is the most influential piece of literature ever written, whether you regard it as being fact or fiction.

>> No.1018405

>>1018396
Yeah, I love the artistry and depth of MD Geist.

>> No.1018406

>>1018396

Ah yes, the glory days of the '80's. That was when you were cool and edgy for wearing anime t-shirts, and there were guns and swords and violence and all kinds of mad shit.

That image is so true.

>> No.1018407

>>1018402

I think you're thinking of Twilight, bro.

>> No.1018411

>>1018384

>Cowboy Bebop
>Not excellent.

Did you ever even watch it? I will concede that a huge amount of anime is SHIT, but Cowboy Bebop? Hell no.

Cowboy Bebop ranks up with Serial Experiments Lain on the tier list of anime.

>> No.1018412

>>1018402
Nope, the Bible is not more important in a literary way than Shakespeare

>> No.1018417

>>1018411
Serial Experiments Lain contains an allusion to Proust, no joke

>> No.1018418

>>1018396
Sure, anime is shit. But that picture is comparing high budget anime movies to cheap TV shows.

>> No.1018419

>>1018412

You're a really bad troll, or just an absolute moron. Good luck with life.

>> No.1018420

Hey guys.. I hear that Neon Genesis Evangelion features references to The Bible? Sounds deep

>> No.1018422

>>1018411

I've tried watching it because someone told me, "If you like jazz, you'll like this show."

But I really just don't have the nerve to sit through a cartoon show that takes itself so seriously.

>> No.1018423

>>1018419
>indignant Christian

>> No.1018425

Story telling mediums are god tier in the tier list of things that exist

>> No.1018428

>>1018422
> But I really just don't have the nerve to sit through a cartoon show that takes itself so seriously.
DIFFERENT CULTURES VALUE SAME THINGS DIFFERENTLY, HOLY SHIT!

that's your own damn fault. Don't blame your own elitism on the show.

>> No.1018430

Faggots,

books > movies > video games > TV shows > anime

>> No.1018431

>>1018423

Actually, I'm not. I'm Agnostic.

>> No.1018435

>>1018422

I have no problem if you cannot get into it because of its art style.

I do have a problem if you try to say that it is bad because you cannot get into its art style.

>> No.1018436

>>1018428

What does not liking a cartoon that takes itself seriously have to do with me not understanding other cultures?

Not everyone has to like everything, bro.

>HOLY SHIT SOME PEOPLE HAVE A DIFFERENT TASTE AND OUTLOOK ON LIFE

>> No.1018437

>>1018431
And you're probably a former Christian who just can't seem to get the Bible out of its special place in your heart

>> No.1018438
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1018438

>>1018412

>> No.1018440
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1018440

>animation is for kids!

Generalizations are shit-tier. Any classic cinema > Twilight. Cowboy Bebop > Lucky Star.

It's the story, not how it's told.

>> No.1018445

>>1018437

Keep going. Your continued refusal to accept the literary importance of the Bible is kind of amusing. You're living in a dream world. I'm sorry, but Shakespeare is not more influential than the Bible. Get an education.

>> No.1018446

Cowboy Bebop can go fuck itself, there are millions times better animes cartoons

>> No.1018451

>>1018420

People who have actually read deep books, watched deep movies, etc. do not actually call NGE deep. NGE is just "deep" considering how mainstream it is in the anime community.

Serial Experiments Lain actually is fairly deep.

>> No.1018452

>>1018446
Like what?

I'm not being argumentative, I'm just not at all familiar with anime and would like some suggestions of things to pirate before I go back to college. I just assumed it was a good show because some friends of mine love it and it was used as an example of a good anime.

>> No.1018453

>>1018420

Lain referencing Proust is different from NGE referencing the Bible. NGE just did it to look cool. Lain's themes, particularly those dealing with memory and consciousness, are also dealt with in Proust. The reference is a shout out of sorts to one of things that inspired the series.

>> No.1018454

>Twilight in god tier.

>> No.1018459

All this talk about Serial Experiments Lain is making me want to go re-watch it.

I was like 12 when I saw it last, maybe I'll actually understand the deepness now.

>> No.1018460
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1018460

>>1018440

Classic animated Disney films > any anime ever

>> No.1018462

>>1018452

Cowboy Bebop is a great anime, but that's mostly due to an excellent soundtrack and one of the truest dubs out there.

In terms of story, storytelling, and characterization, it's in the middle of the pack.

>> No.1018463

>>1018460

Not the quoted but if you are talking about visually? Maybe, depending on your tastes. If you are talking about overall? Hahaha no.

>> No.1018472

>>1018463
> visually
no.

Mizayaki movies and Akira just to name a few, made during the same time period and just as visually appealing.

>> No.1018478

>>1018451
Oh.. so NGE is deep in like the same way Inception and The Matrix are deep. Got it.

>> No.1018479
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1018479

>>1018472

He said depending on personal taste.

>> No.1018482

>>1018472

Again, that is a "My tastes > your tastes" argument.

Now saying that more mainstream modern anime are worse than most animated disney movies? That is pretty undeniable.

>> No.1018485

>>1018472
If you weren't a faggot you would've said Takahata instead of Miyazaki

>> No.1018496

>>1018478

Yes, though I would say that the matrix is MUCH deeper than both inception and NGE (While still not attaining the level of an actually DEEP movie.)

>> No.1018505

>>1018496

The worst part was that some universities (admittedly, probably bad ones) had classes dedicated to Matrix philosophy, which was really just metaphysical and epistemological philosophy 101.

>> No.1018508
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1018508

>>1018496

>the matrix
>deep

>> No.1018510

>>1018508

> Inception
> As deep as the matrix.

Now you see what I am saying?

>>1018505

Pop culture probably helps students learn the material.

>> No.1018511

>>1018505
Wait really. But Neon Genesis Evangelion apparently draws upon Freud so it's probably at least as deep

>> No.1018516

>>1018510

I realize this, but it's kind of pathetic when you have to contextualize philosophical ideas using movies that try really, really hard to be deep.

>> No.1018523

>Top tier
>TV Shows

No. TV has only become a legitimate medium in the last decade due to popularity of thought-provoking premium cable shows and high-end basic cable shows. The rest of it is dumbed-down bullshit. More dumbed-down than any film coming out of Hollywood from the likes of James Cameron ever is.

It's fast surface bullshit to keep people from changing the channel.

>> No.1018531

>Storytelling mediums
>video games

The ludologists would like to have a word with you.

But seriously, comparing storytelling mediums is just the kind of thing I'd expect from the retarded manchildren that call 4chan home.

>> No.1018534

>>1018523

Not to mention some of the most shit-tier acting I have ever seen.

>> No.1018535

>>1018531

Welcome home, manchild.

>I'm still pissed that music isn't on this list.
>shot a man in Reno

>> No.1018540

>>1018478
Nah dude, NGE takes pages from so many philosophers. Schopenhauer, Hegel, Sartre, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche.. Also, it's got a shitload of Freudian concepts, not to mention the Bible and Apocryphal writings. Oh, and golden age science fiction.

>> No.1018546

>>1018540
You had me going there for a second but then I got to the last sentence and I f-p'd (face-palmed)

>> No.1018548

>>1018535

It's good to be back.

>> No.1018552

>>1018546
>and I f-p'd (face-palmed)

Protip: there is not point abbreviating words you are going to spell out in parenthetical directly after unless you happen to be writing a 3,000 word essay where you will use said abbreviations multiple times.

But you aren't. You are obviously just a moron.

>> No.1018555

>>1018535

Lyrics aren't great for story-telling for the same reason a short lyric poem is not great for story-telling. It may say something, but it's certainly not plot-heavy, which is what I think OP is trying to argue for.

>> No.1018559

>>1018523
As opposed to the dumbed-down best-seller list? All tier-lists or top-ten lists are stupid anyway, but you're being shortsighted.

>> No.1018562

>>1018552
lmao (Laughing Madly At yOu)

>> No.1018563

>>1018552
trolledhard.jpg

>> No.1018566

>>1018555

>implying a book has to be "plot-heavy"

Fuckin' Edmund Fitzgerald.

>> No.1018569
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1018569

>>1018563

Yeah, I'm sure.

>> No.1018572

>>1018523
Twin Peaks is like from two decades ago and i'ts like one of the best (American) TV shows ever

>> No.1018579

>>1018572

I haven't heard anyone talk about Twin Peaks since... well two decades ago.

>> No.1018583

>>1018559

The TV medium as a whole is the least intelligent medium. Save for a few great series, TV is what happens when you make 24 hours of product with great creative restrictions and intentionally episodic nature.

The Bestsellers list isn't representative of literature. 24 and The Big Bang Theory, however, are representative of TV.

>> No.1018585

>>1018566

I never said that it had to be, I'm just saying that music isn't a very good example. Well-written, meaningful lyrics are essentially lyric poems anyway, but that's just stuff from the past century. What about classical music? There's no meaning or interpretation necessary in the appreciation of music.

>> No.1018586

>>1018579
That's because you talk to non-hip losers

>> No.1018593

video games are awesome storytelling mediums, but they are rarely used correctly. by rarely I mean like 4 times ever.

anime isn't even a medium like the others. doesn't belong on the list.

>> No.1018595

>>1018546
You kidding me? Read Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke. The whole concept of the Overmind is "instrumental" to the show. Also, for philosophy you don't even need to look far at all, it's even in the titles of the episodes. "The Sickness Unto Death" is also a title from Kierkegaard, the show has a lot of Kierkegaard.. not as much as it has Freud though. It was created to be enjoyed on two completely different levels. One level happens to be lost to most people, I didn't even realized it until I had gotten into Philosophy and taken a Psychology course.

>> No.1018600

>>1018583
Not my fault you can't download TV episodes you like while ignoring the crap

Twin Peaks, Star Trek TNG, Seinfeld are all good shows that I grew up with and still watch, and there are too many good shows to choose from. Books are the best, no argument there, and movies might overall be better than TV, but you're going to tell me that it's worse than anime shit and videogames?

>> No.1018601
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1018601

>>1018523
ORLY?

>> No.1018603
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1018603

>>1018562
>lmao
>laugh madly at you
>not laugh my ass off

>> No.1018606

>>1018593

I'm really suspect of this statement. Care to elaborate on what those four examples might be?

>> No.1018609

>>1018585

Don't try to be philosophical.

There are still plenty of song writers who use music as a medium for story telling. They're called folk singers.

>> No.1018610

>>1018595
So it's making a reference to Starcraft..?

>> No.1018615

>>1018606
Ico. Shadow of the Colossus. The Void

>> No.1018616

>>1018610

What? No, what are you talking about?

>> No.1018621

I liked the story in Silent Hill 2.

>> No.1018623

>>1018600
>Star Trek
>Seinfeld

Good shows, but nothing that could ever be called art. There's little to no subtext in either of them.

>> No.1018624

>>1018609

I'm not being philosophical, what are you even talking about? I don't think you understood what I meant. Folk singers are what Sappho would have been, which is why I said they are essentially lyric poets. But folk music is not all music. Most music is simply not meant to be interpreted, it's meant for enjoyment and to simply be heard.

>> No.1018626

>>1018615
Actually I haven't played any of these games and only mentioned them because people call them "art games" for whatever reason

>> No.1018633

>>1018624

>I'm not being philosophical
>Most music is simply not meant to be interpreted, it's meant for enjoyment and to simply be heard.

Dude, just stop.

>> No.1018641

Why have The Wire and Six Feet Under not been mentioned as support for television being a quality storytelling medium?

>> No.1018643

>>1018615

> The void
> Amazing story telling.

That was like...the only average part of the entire game (I love everything else about it though. Nice to finally find someone who has actually played it.)

>> No.1018644

>>1018626

I've played Ico and Shadow of the Colossus, and I don't really agree that they're art at all. A lot of people come to this misconception because they're very pared down and have a distinctive style, but the truth is that the stories for both games are utterly simple, and the characterization pathetically one-dimensional. I don't think any video game has proven the worth of the medium, and I doubt any ever will. I spent the majority of my childhood playing video games, mostly RPGs, so I feel I'm being fairly honest. I don't play video games anymore, however.

>> No.1018645

Literature > films > music > television

I have no experience with anime, manga or comics so I'm not including them. This is just my opinion.

>> No.1018647

>>1018606
Silent Hill, Deus Ex, Earthbound, Metal Gear Solid

questionable quality in a lot of places but they use the medium's interactivity to improve storytelling in ways that other mediums can't.

>> No.1018649

>>1018496
someone didn't watch Dark city, the Matrix is kind of shit tier

and you can find so many exceptions for OP's categories that it doesn't make sense to post them.

OP is trolling you

>> No.1018654

>>1018643
here.

>>1018626
Well then I guess you are just a faggot.

>> No.1018655

You can fuck right off if you don't think Mother 3 had an awesome story.

>> No.1018657
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1018657

Fucking Starguard is a work of art.

>> No.1018658

Planescape Torment. Haha no I'm just kidding

>> No.1018659

>>1018649

Someone didn't read the rest of the topic where I said that the matrix is not actually very deep, but it is leaps and bounds ahead of NGE and inception in that category.

Also, been meaning to see Dark City, is it good?

>> No.1018661

>>1018633

You act like I'm debating the aesthetics of music or something, when I'm clearly not. That statement was not philosophical, it's simply a fact. You can't listen to Chopin's piano concerto no.1 in e minor op.11 and interpret anything from it remotely close to a story. Christ.

>> No.1018662

This thread makes me feel dirty and stupid, and I´m from /jp/! Amazing, /lit/. Truly amazing

>> No.1018663

>>1018641

I was referring to them when I said that in the last decade there have been some great examples of television.

I am actually a big fan of SFU, The Wire, Oz, Rome, Deadwood, Queer As Folk, etc.

But I still think that as a whole, the TV medium has a long way to go before it can stand above Film.

>> No.1018665

>>1018659
oh, that was you ? my apologies then

yes, dark city is better if you're into darker stuff

>> No.1018666

Only half the scholars of video games even believe video games are a storytelling medium (the narratologists).

So if you are trying to discredit it by putting it in the "shit tier", I should point out that the rest of the scholars wouldn't consider it a storytelling medium at all (the ludologists). They believe it should be studied on its own merits as an artform more concerned with play and interactivity than story.

>> No.1018670

>Only half the scholars of video games
>Scholars of video games
I can say, with no sarcasm, that I love this fucking era.

>> No.1018671

>>1018666
Oh you mean like how literature should focus on language more than story.

>> No.1018674

>>1018670
If it exists, there is critical analysis of it

>> No.1018675

>>1018666

What? Video game scholars? I'm sorry, but there's no way such a position exists. This smells like absolute bullshit to me. You can't go to university to study video games, and university's certainly aren't giving out tenures for this. Get real, man.

>> No.1018685

>>1018675
>>1018670

It does exist. Look up Henry Jenkins. He's one of the most popular scholars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_studies

On a side note, Jenkins is also a scholar of gay porn and wrestling.

>> No.1018686

>>1018666
10/10

Someone might wanna post this in /v/

>> No.1018687

>>1018661

You're being philosophical because all you're doing is thinking out loud.

The truth of the matter is that yes, music is used as a medium for storytelling. Does most music convey the abstract? Yes. But a lot of it conveys a story. I was a music major for a time and know exactly what I'm talking about.

Let's take a look at one of my favorite recent free jazz albums by The Exploding Star Orchestra:

'We Are All From Somewhere Else is comprised of 3 distinct sections, and corresponds to a story involving an exploding star, cosmic transformation, a sting ray, the travels of the sting ray, intelligent conversations with electric eels, the destructive power of humans, the death and ascension of sting ray, the transformation of sting ray ghost to flying bird, and the transformation of bird to phoenix to rocket to flying burning matter to a new-born star.

'Says Mazurek, “I could clearly see and hear the events as a kind of animated adult/children’s story that could be presented in book or video form. In the end you have a poem text based on the original story line that is then flipped backwards to reveal another perspective on the poem. The flipped text was orchestrated by Portuguese video artist and conceptualist Joao Simoes, while I was in Lisbon making final preparations for the release of this recording.”'

tl;dr, yes, music is a story-telling medium.

>> No.1018688

>>1018685

>scholar of Videogames, Gay Porn, and Wrestling

Mr. Jenkins is living the dream.

>> No.1018691

>>1018685
Barthes wrote an essay about wrestling

>> No.1018697

>>1018686

Anyone who is at all serious about video games is already aware of the ludology versus narratology debate.

I don't see how it's so unbelievable that video games would be studied. If anyone here still goes to university (preferrably one with a media or even a game studies department), you should head to the library and there will undoubtedly be a number of books on the matter with as in-depth discussion as anyone has ever had on the subject of film and dance.

If you want, I can post my Super Mario essay I did for my Game Form subject when I was still studying.

>> No.1018705

>>1018687
>In the end you have a poem text based on the original story line
So it's an audio book? Nice try, nerd. You should end all of your posts with "do you want fries with that?" because you'll be working in fast food for the rest of your life.

>> No.1018708

>>1018687

You may be a music major, but I'm a literature major. I'm aware that certain compositions have a background story, but it really only applies if you're aware of it before you listen. That is not conventional story-telling, I'm sorry. You can go on and on about the language of music, and that's all well and good, but we don't speak in musical notes, nor do we understand it unless it's meant to imitate phonetic sounds or sounds from nature. Movies can be completely wordless and still tell a story because we can see the events unfolding before us, and therefore we can interpret what is being seen. Music is a wonderful art, and I don't see why you appear so keen to make it out like it HAS to be a story-telling medium. It is in some cases, and I've already explained that, but usually, mostly, no, it's not. Completely different means for a completely different end.

>> No.1018716

>>1018705

> free jazz
> so it's an audiobook

Are you really that stupid and didn't understand that he was referring to part of the storyline in the music as a poem...? Or are you joking?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCL8IorVgYw

>> No.1018725

>>1018708

I said I WAS a music major, and now I'm out of college with a degree in English... so I'll just take your sophomoric beliefs with a grain of salt and move on.

If you're too stubborn to accept the fact that music is a medium for story-telling, then I feel sorry for you, but it's not my problem.

>> No.1018730

>>1018725

Yes, end with a belittling remark and then walk away. I love how you ignored everything I said just to say that I don't believe music can be a story-telling medium. You didn't provide any argument, you just said how some compositions have a back story. Wow, and I guess because you studied music in university it makes you somehow more qualified than me? Good god, grow up.

>> No.1018738

>>1018730

>I guess because you studied music in university it makes you somehow more qualified than me?

Well, yes, actually. That's the point of studying something at a university.

I think your confusion stems from your assumption that I think "all music tells a story," which not only did I never say, but specifically expressed otherwise.

Or maybe you just don't know what a medium is, I don't know. Like I said, not my problem.

>> No.1018752

>>1018738

Yes, but you didn't leave with a degree in music theory, so you're really no better off than me. I took music classes in university as well, but I don't claim I'm an authority.

Everything you said suggested that music was a story-telling medium in all cases. I said otherwise, and that was the catalyst of our little argument. Go back and point out where you mentioned that it wasn't in some instances, and you'll find that you never did.

>> No.1018764
File: 1.40 MB, 193x135, 1280612141943.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1018764

It's not the medium; it's how you use the medium. I can't believe you people. Don't blame the medium, blame the artist.

>> No.1018772

>>1018752

Reading comprehension fail.

>There are still plenty of song writers who use music as a medium for story telling.

>The truth of the matter is that yes, music is used as a medium for storytelling. Does most music convey the abstract? Yes. But a lot of it conveys a story.

If I said "Ham is used as a topping for pizza," would you think I meant it's ALWAYS used as a topping for pizza?

>> No.1018911
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1018911

So, to summarise:
>Jap cartoons are inherently bad because animation is for kids!
>Video games are for autistics because video games are for autistics!
> TV is a better storytelling medium than film!
>All of the above are absolute failure compared to the glorious majesty of books! (nevermind the considerable head start literature has over most other mediums)

>> No.1018920

>>1018911

Switch Jap cartoons with video games and your analysis will be a little more accurate.

>> No.1018924
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1018924

Video games have the potential for non-linear storytelling though.

If you're talking storytelling potential they are all on equal ground because they can present a story in a unique way (besides TV shows).
If you're talking about how they are right now move TV shows below Film and delete Anime off the list.

>> No.1018942
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1018942

>>1018367
Nah

>> No.1018946
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1018946

>>1018942

>> No.1018949

>>1018946
>>1018942

arr rook same

>> No.1018950

>>1018942

I'll admit that some of that looks pretty badass. The black and white Horror sub-genre seems trippy as hell.

>> No.1018952

>>1018942
>>1018946
This second part was a bit much. Things tended to repeat and match the first one a bit.
Overall nice argument.

>> No.1018953

>>1018946
>>1018942
those pics are retarded, what /a/ loser made themf

>> No.1018957
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1018957

>>1018924
I thought this particular anime that aired last april was presented uniquely. If i were to compare it to a film, it would be most similar to Groundhog Day.

>> No.1018958
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1018958

>>1018305
> Shit Tier: Video games
> Never played Professor Layton

>> No.1018965

>>1018957
>Groundhog Day
um no, shut the fuck up

>> No.1018969

>>1018957
>>1018957
Just looked it up.
It'd fall into TV show.

>> No.1018971

>>1018965
Groundhog Day: A weatherman finds himself living the same day over and over again.

Tatami Galaxy: A young man keeps living his 4 years of collage over and over again.

>> No.1018978

>>1018971

I get a kick whenever someone mentions the movie Groundhog Day.

It was filmed in a really small town bordering the one I grew up in... a lot of my friend's parents were extras in it, and my old guitar instructor wrote the score.

>just saying.
>because I thought the movie sucked.

>> No.1018981

>Anime on list
>Theater is not
wtfamireading.jpg

>> No.1018982

No theatre, hmmm? That's a pretty shitty list you got there.

>> No.1018984

>>1018978
The only thing that the two has in common is the premise. Of course, they were done differently.

>> No.1018987

>>1018764
/Thread

>> No.1018999

>Mediums

Nice try, OP.

>> No.1019033

A picture is worth a thousand words.

manga > all

>> No.1019036

WHAT ABOUT PORNO?

>> No.1019037

I think movies and television should be tied and videogames should be in mid tier.

Anime shouldn't be a category since that's tv.

>> No.1019042

> Impling symphonic poems/operas aren't the supreme forms of 'story-telling'

>> No.1019048

>>1019042

I already tried saying that and got flamed by some jackass for it.

>> No.1019051

>>1019042

Ugh, I'm sorry. I tried to appreciate opera. I just found it all too in your face to be beautiful. I can't stand so much wailing.

>> No.1019065
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1019065

>>1019048
Oh. Then this 'jackass' must give 'Der Ring das Nibelungen' a good listen!

>> No.1019080

>>1019065
> *des

>>1019051
Eh alright. Try Schoenberg's "Pelleas und Melisande" or Strauss's "Don Quixote"

>> No.1019097

>>1019080
I liked all of the orchestrated versions of these I could find. Are they completely symphonic or did the originals have voices in them? If so I can't judge until I've heard them with their sung roles.

>> No.1019117

>>1019097
They're usually just arranged for orch.

A normal symphony, however, may contain texts sung by characters.
Mahler's 4th, for instance, describes the image of heaven from the perspective of a child, where a German folksong is read by soprano voice.

In this way I think a story can be told more powerfully through song and music than plain text can

>> No.1019121
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1019121

Add music and performance (to encompasses theatre and other forms), turn anime into animation, turn books into literature (to encompass comic books, manga and light novels etc,).

My opinion of the mediums from OP's list based on potential of the medium, videogames could drop below animation if there isn't a way to get over the hump that entertainment is encouraged at the expense of artistry by virtue of being a game.

>> No.1019125

>>1019097
I mean, the point of a symphonic poem is to present an image without the lyrics itself, becoming just as descriptive with the orchestra alone.

>> No.1019144

>>1019125
That seems like something musicians have tried to do elsewhere, the idea of a symphonic poem just seems pretentious, it's like saying "music is supposed to be highly-organised and evocative, but, like, mine is so highly-organised and evocative it belongs to a new high art genre of music". Nonsense, then you'd have to go back through the annals of classical music and decide what among all that should be considered symphonic poetry.

Musical poetry is what all music should aspire to, and when it doesn't it's effectively just pop music or some other form of entertainment, but we don't need a new high art bracket to say "this music is better than that music", such provisions exist in our appreciation of music already.

>> No.1019151

>>1019144

>anything I don't understand is stupid and pretentious!

>> No.1019157

Books > Video Games > TV Shows > Movies > Anime.

Regardless of the order, however, There are brilliant examples within all of them.

>> No.1019178

>>1019144
'Symphonic poem' refers to a single-movement performed by orchestra which conveys an image or story. That's all it is, I'm not using it as music snobbery, I just favour these settings because the orchestra has such a wide scope of colours and can acheieve more detail and description than other musical poems IMO.

>> No.1019179

wtf i see.
Television is filled with filthy advertisment there is no culture.
All TV shows are made for ads and commercial!

Video games are pure story telling and some games much more because you make it the way you want.

>> No.1019205

No Oral Tradition?

>> No.1019206

>>1019205
I'm sorry, oral traditional has been lost to time and could be found on the list.

>> No.1019207

>>1019205

Funny, that's what your mother said to me last night.

>> No.1019208

/lit/
where troll threads last a lifetime.

captcha: Dorken II

>> No.1019225

>>1018367

Sure is generalisation in here.

Anyway, if I interpreted OP's pic correctly, it was rating mediums on their storytelling potential and animation has great potential for a wide range of stories.

>> No.1019270

>>1019178
My issue is with the naming of the genre, not the genre itself, poetry is high art and the manner in which they've associated with it is nonsense. Most music is written in verse and composed with form in mind, what claim does 'symphonic poetry' have to being any more poetic than classical music, which in cases I can only imagine did exactly what has just been outlined ("single-movement performed by orchestra which conveys an image or story").

>>1019151
No, you fuckwit, I outlined my reasonable argument, you haven't countered it, it's an issue of nomenclature, it's simply a misnomer to give this genre such a loaded name.

>> No.1019272

>>1019270
That is, lyrics, where they are present, are written in verse.

>> No.1019277

I would put movies rather than TV shows on the top tier. A lot of TV shows don't actually have a plot and just broadcast filler episode after filler episode.

>> No.1019291

>>1019270

>>1019151
isn't
>>1019178

>> No.1019293

>>1019270
It's based on an already-existing theme or image, a particular mountain or poem etc, normal classical works are based on their own images.

>> No.1019304

Why would you separate TV shows from anime?

Why would you separate movies from anime?

>> No.1019309
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1019309

TV shows should remain above movies because, as has been said, with the production of quality premium cable shows like The Wire in the last decade, the medium is only now fully exploring its potential. Film has been doing this for years, but TV shows at their best will exceed the storytelling potential of a movie, where it's far more restricted.

As far as anime and videogames go, I'd say have them tied in low tier. Neither have particularly great merits, but I think games have fantastic potential. With it being such a young medium though, it'll be a long, long time before we see what interactive storytelling is really capable of.

Other than that, good job OP.

>193 posts and 23 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view

>> No.1019331

... I was preparing to rage but...
I'm okay with this.

>> No.1019344

Ctrl F

Find one mention of Metal Gear Solid

Realise that saying Metal Gear Solid was an amazing story on this board is a bad mistake.

Do it anyway

Go one step further and say that video games are definitely, without a doubt, above anime.

Reiterate that MGS has the best story of any video game series.

Sit back and prepare to be flamed.

????

Profit.

Captcha: university focketal

>> No.1019351

>>1019344
Hey buddy! Welcome to /lit/. You'll find that:
a. we generally don't care about you AND
b. we'd really appreciate it if you switched back your spacebar and your enter key AND
c. spoiler tags are for spoilers, let's keep it that way
Enjoy your stay!

>> No.1019353

>>1018305
just because i raged so hard... and you infact DID forget music/oral tradition, you also should add "interpretive dance" as shittiest tier to ease my anger. otherwise, logically this list is sound. though tv shows should be below movies. and it really depends on the anime or video game and the story that it actually has to tell. i mean a movie can be as pointless BUT FUN AND EXITING as any anime, but a books could also have no real purpose.. kind of like house of leaves.

also... there are no original movies anymore.. so i think that movies should be shit tier.

>> No.1019368

>>1019351
Stop being a little entitled bitch. /lit/ is not your mother or lover.

>> No.1019369

Books
Films
Television
Video Games
Anime
Comic Books

>> No.1019372

This thread is stupid.

Sage.

>> No.1019374

god: books
high: film, orally passed down stories, folk tales, theatre
mid: radio
low: television
shit: your comics and video games and other shit

>> No.1019397

that's cause the priority of vidya and animu isn't fundamentally the plot. they're for playing and animation, respectively.

>> No.1019413

>203 posts and 24 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.

i'm treating this as a typo...don't DARE say otherwise

/walks away slowly

>> No.1019446

ITT: Elitists.

>> No.1019449

Books are shit. Half or more of the pages are description, which visual mediums easily do away with.

>> No.1019462

>>1019270
A symphonic poem or tone poem or whatever you call it is "classical music." The primary difference between it and another symphonic work is that the tone poem is written as "this is my attempt to capture such and such in a symphonic work" whereas another work wouldn't be written with such a deliberate interpretation or not regardless of inspiration. Often a work written without any story in mind can be interpreted by the listener as having one. In Elizabeth Wilson's biography of Rostropovich, it recounts how Rostropovich ascribed to Lutoslawski's Cello Concerto a story corresponding to his own life while the composer stated that he had no story in mind behind the music and that the piece should stand entirely on its musical merits. Even symphonic poem or opera for that matter is a really about the music as it is the transformation of a story into music rather than music into a story. For that reason, I would not rank the symphonic poem highly as a story-telling medium.

>> No.1019468
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1019468

God Tier: Poetry

Shit Tier: Prose (all of it)

>> No.1019726

TV shows are definitely above movies. Movies often have way more funding to their name, but TV shows last a lot longer. There's just some things you can't tell in two hours that you can in... 100.

>> No.1019741

JESUS FUCK COWBOY BEBOP DOESN'T TAKE ITSELF SERIOUSLY, IT'S JUST THE GENRES IT LIKES TO APE

IT TAKES AFTER SPAGHETTI WESTERNS AND AMERICAN NOIR AND SO IT HAS A LOT OF BROODING MOMENTS. IT'S FUCKING HOMAGE, NOT PRETENTIOUS.

>> No.1019763
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1019763

>>1019741

>> No.1019764
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1019764

>>1018305
This list is ridiculous, I see no plays or music or artistic mediums (paintings, sculptures and such) on the list. What of word of mouth? Dreams? All tell stories, there are probably more but they're the most apparent additions missing.

>> No.1019772

>>1018327
I second this.

>> No.1019828

>>1019741

Homage is a pretentious way to say rip-off.

>> No.1019864

>>1019828
Hipster is a pretentious pretentious pretense hip unique ignorant you not me pretentious hipster.

>> No.1019865

>>1019726
>Implying novels are superior to novellas and short stories

>> No.1019870

The medium does not determine the effectiveness of the message, it's the message itself and how willing the participants are to learn it.

>> No.1019966

>>1019870
Ergo, video games are God tier.

>> No.1020002

>>1018451
>>1018453
I dont understand why so many people dont understand why so many people dismiss NGE. Just because the director used christian imagery to make things look cool doesnt mean his work means nothing. Everyone seems to miss the whole point. Evangelion is a statement about parenting in Japan and the psychology that goes along with the pressures put on them. Its not about religion and it never was supposed to be........ Ah well, the movies are butchering the legacy of the series anyway.

>> No.1020432 [DELETED] 

>>1018462
>In terms of story, storytelling, and characterization, it's in the middle of the pack.

So list the 50% of all anime that has better story, storytelling, and characterization.

>> No.1020437

>>1018462
>In terms of story, storytelling, and characterization, it's in the middle of the pack.

So list the 50% of all anime that have better storytelling, characterization, and a better story.

>> No.1020941

When taking the best examples from each medium, OP's list is 100% accurate.

>> No.1021629

why is this still here?