/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10150176]

Why don't normies like philosophy?

[Anonymous No.10150186]

>>10150176

It is a slower and less efficient way to achieve the things they want

[Anonymous No.10150188]

>>10150186

What are they trying to achieve?

[Anonymous No.10150193]

>>10150188
Happiness.

[Anonymous No.10150205]

>>10150188

objects
status
the consistent release of endorphins and dopamine

[Anonymous No.10150258]

>>10150176
Because all they need to know they’ve learned in kindergarten.

[Anonymous No.10150262]

>>10150205
>>10150193
allow me to cringe for a second

[Anonymous No.10150264]

I'm an alt-normie and like philosophy. It makes me feel like less of a brainlet and less alone if I see ideas I've had expressed in some form and expanded on in the past.

Gonna hijack this thread and ask where the best place to start with Camus' nonfiction writing is. I've read a ton of his fiction and really enjoy it so I'd like to dive more into his ideology.

[Anonymous No.10150268]

>>10150264
>Gonna hijack this thread and ask where the best place to start with Camus' nonfiction writing is.
just don't

[Anonymous No.10150276]

>>10150268
What's wrong with it?

[Anonymous No.10150277]

how do you guys avoid rambling about transcendental idealism to the girl you took home from the party after getting too high/drunk?

[Anonymous No.10150284]

>>10150176
because thinking is hard

[johnathan armstrong brannigan !Y4n2LCfJnM No.10150296]

i majored in philosophy and i fucking hate it
it's just that it constnantly preoccupies me
it opens new avenues of anxiety while closing off the old familiar ones

[Anonymous No.10150305]

>>10150277
I don't

[Anonymous No.10150310]

>>10150262
Not an argument.

[Anonymous No.10150316]

what do you mean by normies? people with children? most of the people i work with have children and i believe they just don't have the time or inclination to think about things on a "philosophical" capacity. if i had children, i would be too preoccupied supporting them and worrying about their needs than my own

[Anonymous No.10150323]

>>10150176
They don't like thinking because it drives them to baby's first existensial crisis, which would make it difficult to funcion in society
>>10150296
>tfw years and years of mental illness make even the most fucked up metaphysical problems tame
Man up you faggot
Unless you are experiencing straight psychosis you are just being a normal fag, gb2r/rickandmorty

[Anonymous No.10150326]

Do we REALLY need these types getting into philosophy?

This is how we got Alain Dr Bottom and the school of life

[Anonymous No.10150334]

Most people I've talked to who dislike philosophy read one or two of Plato's works, thought they were retarded, and dropped philosophy forever. To be fair, you really do need a high IQ and to read and reread Plato's works to appreciate them.

[Anonymous No.10150341]

>>10150277
>rambling about transcendental idealism
I don't take home complete brainlets, so what keeps me from it is the realization that she would leave the instant I'd utter something as retarded and pseudointellectual as this random combination of big boy words.

[Anonymous No.10150344]

>>10150264
>Camus
Not philosophy, you brainlet.

[Anonymous No.10150348]

>>10150176
Normal people think a circumstance should conflict with their carnal beliefs, so they do not think about it and react by developing principles from what immediately affects them. Entertaining frozen ideas would interfere with this

[Anonymous No.10150353]

>>10150264
>Camus
stop

[Anonymous No.10150354]

>>10150176

Because normies run on incredibly stupid and repetitive heuristics that work mostly only because everyone else uses them, and when you confront them with actual thought, they think you're trying to trick them, they don't see the practical utility, and they see you as pretentious.

[Anonymous No.10150357]

>>10150316
I have children, as do two others I know of, and we are all studying philosophy. We are the oldest students here.
Stop making excuses.

[Anonymous No.10150359]

>>10150326
this desu, just a quick look at the wisecrack comment section makes me cringe

[Anonymous No.10150364]

Why should they? The fact that you think something is interesting and valuable doesn't mean anyone else has to give a fuck about it.

[Anonymous No.10150365]

>>10150188
THEYRE TRYING TO BECOME THE PRODIGAL SON TO SAVE THEIR FATHER FROM THE BELLY OF THE DRAGON TO BRING BACK WISDOM TO THEIR COMMUNITY

[Anonymous No.10150374]

>>10150316
>what do you mean by normies?

literally you

[Anonymous No.10150375]

>>10150341
>don't take home complete brainlets
>who is the third most famous philosopher of all time

brainlet

[Anonymous No.10150378]

>>10150344
Just because you dislike something doesn't mean you can redefine it.

[Anonymous No.10150381]

>>10150176
I wouldn't consider myself a normie because I'm a loser who posts on 4chan and lives alone with a cat, but I also don't really care about reading non-fiction philosophy.

I took 3 philosophy courses in college (Because I went to a catholic school, and any bachelor's degree required it), and constantly found myself asking "Why does any of this matter?" Kant, for example, because Kant is one of the most memorable for me. Why do I have to go through this autistic equation to figure out whether or not something I did was morally sound? Why do I care whether or not what I do is morally sound? At the end of the day either I feel guilty about something, or I don't. If I feel guilty about an action, it's because somewhere in me I realize I did something that I didn't agree with, and it's usually evident what that something was.

Why do I need to be a moral person? Why does any of that matter? Who the fuck cares, when people are only focused on themselves anyways? More importantly, why does this guy care whether or not I do something moral, enough to write a book about it?

I'm sure there's some philosopher out there that I would agree with, but at the same time, why would I need to read his shit when I know how I feel about it now? To re-affirm something inside of me? Seems like masturbation desu.

[Anonymous No.10150389]

>>10150334
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Plato. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of presocratics most of the jokes will go over a typical readers head. There's also Plato's theory of forms, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Aeolic literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Plato truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Plato's existential catchphrase "Wubba Lubba Hemlock," which itself is a cryptic reference to Babylons epic Enuma Elish. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as the old pederast's genius wit unfolds itself on their e-readers screens. What fools.. how I pity them.
And yes, by the way, i DO have a Logos tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the young boys' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid

[Anonymous No.10150391]

>>10150381
Whenever I try to read philosophy, the first question that enters my mind is, "Why should I give a fuck about this?"

[Anonymous No.10150397]

when a retard like drumpf can be elected leader of the free world, why would anyone not follow his lead and be as dumb as shit?

[Anonymous No.10150399]

>>10150176
because they get laid

[Anonymous No.10150407]

>>10150378
No, it just isn't philosophy.

[Anonymous No.10150409]

>>10150391
yeh bro pussy mang WHERE THE WEEEEEEED AT BROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?!

[Anonymous No.10150412]

>>10150409
One day you'll grow up and stop thinking in these silly caricatures.

[Anonymous No.10150421]

>>10150176

When most normal people read philosophy, they see hardly anything of worth. Most philosophy is very abstract and hardly has any real world applications at all.

[Anonymous No.10150436]

>>10150412
>grow up
I'm nearly 30.
You're the one thinking in caricatures.

[Anonymous No.10150438]

most philosophy is

>philosopher defines abstract terms
>uses these definitions to make a point
>the point is only true because of the definitions he defined

Most people see this as kind of ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.10150453]

>>10150438
That's just analytic autism

[Anonymous No.10150479]

>>10150389
This is the only one of these pastas that actually gets me

[Anonymous No.10150524]

>>10150453
>This is ideology
>Ideology is bad
>you shouldn't like ideology

[Anonymous No.10150529]

>>10150436
I'm 31 and it's you

[Anonymous No.10150530]

>>10150479
https://pastebin.com/VW7X5kKY

[Anonymous No.10150536]

>>10150176
maybe your friends. mine do.

[Anonymous No.10150543]

Let's say a normie says to you "Show me one thing from philosophy you've read that is actually useful, or really interesting"

What do you say? Would you even be able to come up with anything?

[Anonymous No.10150565]

>>10150407
Just because you keep repeating something doesn't mean it will suddenly become true.

[Anonymous No.10150575]

>>10150264
>Camus
I didn't believe the normie part until this

[Anonymous No.10150580]

>>10150381
In regard to pathology philosophy can be used to make clear what one's ambiguous "anxiety/depression/loneliness" really means if you read certain authors. Answering the meaning to life problem, why you're here, what are my values, what do I value, why should I have values, etc. You don't really need to pursue philosophy unless you have questions you can't find answers to.

[Anonymous No.10150582]

>>10150543
literally anything by heidegger

but they wouldnt understand it anyways because their dumb and because if the hermaneutic circle

[Anonymous No.10150586]

>>10150176

>Socially unrewarded because none of your peers care

>Philosophy is a very complicated conversation carried out over generations of writing, so you can’t halfass your way in; you need to read full summaries and guides before you can even start

>Philosophy is pretty dry stuff, mostly.

The last one’s the hard part. Spend 20 minutes actually trying to read Kant and Heidegger and by the end you’ll need Camus.

[Anonymous No.10150588]

>>10150530
Thanks for saving my pasta, gentlesir.

[Anonymous No.10150605]

>>10150580
Yeah but often times philosophy only offers possible answers that are just as wrong as everyone else's.

[Anonymous No.10150609]

>>10150543
God is real.

[Anonymous No.10150668]

>>10150176
>implying normies don't like philosophy

Reading entry level bullshit like Nietzsche or Camus is a great way for normies to elevate themselves above others without putting effort in. Everybody can relate to "dude just do what you want bro" musings

[Anonymous No.10150672]

>>10150341
>random combination of big boy words

Please leave

[Anonymous No.10150675]

>>10150605
Sure, but when thinking why one is sad, there's more depth to the answer than "I need pills".
When thinking how you should live your life, there's to it than the current mantra of "be chill, do you own thing, you can do whatever you want"
When thinking about God, there's more to it than just half-assed accepting it due to the conscious or unconscious fear of eternally burning in a lake of fire.

Philosophy doesn't guarantee answers but it makes questions seem more relevant. It gives birth to new questions. No one really knows what will make them happy, no one knows what their own happiness looks like. Will asking the right questions lead to it? I think it's possible.

I think it takes a lot of effort to answer some of these hard questions and I think the answers are more than a sentence, or a paragraph of words. The answer is probably living a certain way, having certain habits, defining yourself by actions, it's experiential and because the past vanishes from memory so easily the answers to these hard questions are most likely non-corporeal.

[Anonymous No.10150678]

>>10150668
this is the worst

FUCK OH MY GOD IT SHOULD NOT BE LEGAL TO READ NIETZSCHE IF YOU HAVEN'T >STARTED WITH THE GREEKS

[Anonymous No.10150680]

>>10150389
>Wubba Lubba Hemlock

That was Socrates you absolute melt

[Anonymous No.10150681]

>>10150176
Do you honestly believe the average person, that thinks they know so much, reading an intro work of Plato would humble themselves down to the level of Socrates and recognize their own ignorance? To understand why the unexamined life is not worth living?

[Anonymous No.10150682]

>>10150678
It shouldn't be legal to read Nietzsche at all. Stick to Schopenhauer and if you need a bit more edginess, go with Stirner

[Anonymous No.10150683]

What universe do you live in OP? Stoicism is all the rage right now. There are hundreds of podcasts spoon feeding "philosophy" to pleb masses. Same with "mindfulness" and other bastardized eastern practices.

[Anonymous No.10150687]

>>10150682
you shouldn't be reading stirner either

[Anonymous No.10150690]

>>10150668
>Nietzsche
>Dude just do what you want bro
Slit your wrists.

[Anonymous No.10150695]

>>10150276
Camus is extremely normie and shallow as far as philosophy goes. People tend to read him for the aesthetic more than any deep insight. He's probably not a bad starting point, but definitely try to branch out from there. Just my opinions.

[Anonymous No.10150696]

>>10150575
What's wrong with Camus
has Absurdism taking Nihilism's place as babby's first ideology

[saucy No.10150701]

>>10150696
Camus is kind of absurd but there are more absurd writers out there. Especially from his own era.

[Anonymous No.10150706]

>>10150695
Oh okay. That's kind of what I was using him for. I read some Heidegger and Sartre for a class before and while I liked it I only really understood Sartre's writing. I felt like I was just making blind guesses when interpreting Heidegger.

Since Camus was associated with Sartre but had a different school of thought I figured he'd be a good starting point to work from but everyone in this thread is making me feel like I'm doing something incredibly wrong :c

[Anonymous No.10150712]

>>10150706
If you like existentialism you should look into Kierkegaard and Nietzsche

[Anonymous No.10150714]

When would normies have the time/energy? You try going to work and do the ordinary social things a normie does everyday and then try to read Hegel.

It's the domain of academics/scholastic/the elite who don't have to work

[Anonymous No.10150727]

>>10150714
you forgot to add NEET to that list

[Anonymous No.10150731]

>>10150714
>also spracha
>spracha

:/

[Anonymous No.10150765]

>>10150264
>I'm an alt-normie and like philosophy. It makes me feel like less of a brainlet and less alone if I see ideas I've had expressed in some form and expanded on in the past.
>Camus
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

[Anonymous No.10150772]

>>10150264
Don't listen to the rest. Try Sisyphus and The Fall.

[Anonymous No.10150774]

>>10150765
>implying Camus isn't alt-normie.

[Anonymous No.10150792]

>>10150681
Yeah, who knows more about how to live your life that the people that read books all their lifes, about how or not to live your life.

[Anonymous No.10150817]

At least half the people who post here barely read, and that's people who come to a literature board in their spare time and purport to have a heavy interest in the subject.

[Anonymous No.10150833]

>>10150706
Heidegger is near impossible to understand even with a lot of knowledge in philosophy

Really most philosophy is difficult to understand, unless you're really committed to learning I'd stick with reading philosophical fiction like Camus and Sartre

[Anonymous No.10150918]

>>10150706
Nah man, everybody's just bullshitting their way through. Don't sweat it. You do you. I second the Kierkegaard rec tho.

[Anonymous No.10150929]

>>10150188
instant gratification through socialization and consumption

The study of philosophy requires introspection which terrifies people

[Anonymous No.10150930]

>>10150176

Most normies are simply too tired. Try waking up at 6 AM every day, driving to work in heavy traffic, working for 8.5 hours, driving home in heavy trafic...That leaves you only 4-5 hours to enjoy anything of your day. By this point you are so mentally drained that you just want to watch TV or play vidya, or even just sleep. And the entire time, the dread of having to wake up tomorrow, and do it all over again the next day, hangs over you the entire evening.

It's hard to be a working person and also enjoy philosophy. Often the mental energy just isn't there.

[Anonymous No.10150942]

>>10150930
This. I try to force myself to work on reading and writing in the 4ish hours I have everyday, but it's fucking difficult. I was doing much better when I worked a shitty part time job desu.

[Anonymous No.10150944]

>>10150316
There's a reason very few serious philosophers (including myself) had children. Philosophy is a craft which pretty much necessitates childlessness, poverty and celibacy. I don't read non-virgin philosophers, for example.

[Anonymous No.10150957]

>>10150543
I would say "you've?" in a patronizing tone and tilt my head and look sideways as though addressing an invisible audience, then say "umm, you're gonna have to define that term sweetie" and then turn 360 degrees and exit the situation.

[Anonymous No.10150962]

>>10150957

[Anonymous No.10150966]

>>10150930
IT'S NOT FAIR, WHY COULDN'T I BE BORN RICH

[Anonymous No.10150992]

>>10150543
the struggle is the meaning
inwards, not outwards
power flows, do not try to grasp it, but rather direct it
if you want to be a serious philosopher you have to BTFO hegel at least 3 times/20 pages
we must accelerate the process
niggers are subhuman

[Anonymous No.10151018]

>>10150957
if you turned 360 degrees then you'd still be facing her, you fucking moron. This is why I avoid 4chan and prefer movie discussion on reddit, where people actually have half a brain.

[Anonymous No.10151023]

>>10150714
>>10150930
>>10150942
>>10150966

Now I know why most socialists are middle/upper class socialites.

[Anonymous No.10151027]

>>10150565
>fire is wet
>no it isn't
>just because you can't explain why doesn't mean it isn't
>dude it isn't wet
>just because you keep repeating it doesn't make it true

[Anonymous No.10151028]

>>10151018
how many layers of irony is this

[Anonymous No.10151032]

>>10150365
i hate this so much

[Anonymous No.10151043]

>>10150348
>
stop talking abt the inner lives of normies it scares me

[Anonymous No.10151079]

>>10151023
>Now I know why most socialists are middle/upper class socialites.
how do you know that? got any proof you base that on?

[johnathan armstrong brannigan !Y4n2LCfJnM No.10151124]

>>10150323
You must have a very high opinion of yourself

[Anonymous No.10151132]

>>10150176
Why do people who like philosophy not read it?

[Anonymous No.10151155]

>>10150524
That's just bad contemporary philosophy.

[Anonymous No.10151162]

>>10150565
Camus is a novelist, his ideas are in no way philosophical and his presentation is in no way philosophical. His garabage reduces to: "fuck arabs lmao why do i hate them so much... why do i do anything? nothing REALLY matters... the universe is as empty as Algeria... and we keep... fighting... to... fill.. it............[...]"

[Anonymous No.10151234]

>>10150391
because it's fun...

[Anonymous No.10151249]

>>10150176
Most philosophy is like spiritual psychology with shitty priors. Only people who crave a higher meaning nonstop fall for some of the shit I've read.

[Anonymous No.10151257]

I wish I wasn't such a fucking brainlet. Reading Hegel is like 3 pages a day pace for me and I still need to consult /lit/ and SEP at end of each day.

[Anonymous No.10151272]

>>10151257
>consult /lit/ about Hegel

There is probably like 3 people here who have actually read him

[Anonymous No.10151311]

>>10150944
Plato and Aristotle were both rich aristocrats with wives and children. Even Socrates had a wife and kids and he was autistic.

[Anonymous No.10151315]

>>10150543
I would tell them that stuff thats interesting is never one thing and rather a connection of different stuff, and that "useful" is not the criteria in which one should judge the value of whatever unless you want to be a soulless robot wageslave
>>10151124
Not really, I'm pretty a failure with no objectives, my best moments are while abusing drugs. My parents still have faith in me, its sad.

[Anonymous No.10151326]

>>10151311
He said serious philosophers anon

[Anonymous No.10151342]

>>10150543
In anxiety the nothing is revealed to us

[Anonymous No.10151373]

>>10151132
Because I'm intellectually all spooked-out

[Anonymous No.10151385]

>>10150176

They like Nietzsche but only that one quote about life being boring without music.

[Anonymous No.10151408]

>>10151311
>rich aristocrats
guess they didn't have to wagecuck for a living or pay out the ass for daycare when they had their proles do it all for them, huh?

[Anonymous No.10151430]

>>10150188
They don't know, hence why they don't philosophize

[Anonymous No.10151456]

normies hate philosophy because it means they can't rely on their surroundings for help. only logic can prevail.

I took a philosophy class about metaphysics, and all they wanted to talk about was ethics, anytime it came to actually learning about metaphysics, most of them didn't know how to handle the situation, and were confused.

[Anonymous No.10151550]

>>10151456
Fancy that, people wanting to discuss whats actually relevant to their daily lives...woah...so these are normies...

[Anonymous No.10151578]

Will philosophy make me more money?

[Anonymous No.10151829]

>>10151550
Ironically that attempt at sarcastic dismissal actually sums it up pretty well

[Anonymous No.10152078]

>>10151578
It will get you more pussy is you use it right

[Anonymous No.10152514]

>>10150706
This board is super elitist and they're going to give you shit no matter what unless you go and start with the greeks. Read whatever you want; Camus is fun to read but he isn't really a respected philosopher. He's more of an artist. His philosophy relies on an "artistic sleight of hand" to make any sense.

He's fun to read, but if you want to learn something besides "just be happy, fuck it yolo," then Camus isn't what you want. Read Nietzsche instead, start with Beyond Good and Evil and google the stuff you don't understand. You won't fully appreciate it without reading The Bible, the Greek Tragedies, Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Kant and Hegel. But that would take years, and you can get the gist of what Nietzsche is saying without all that stuff. Maybe read some summaries online, or get a short history of philosophy book if you're really interested. Nietzsche is not only insightful as hell, he's a really good writer. His writing is very accessible as long as you take your time and make sure to look up everything you don't understand.

[Anonymous No.10152727]

Philosophical understanding begets philosophical understanding. It has zero inherent value otherwise. The most impenetrable, long-winded philosopher is the most valued and defended.

If people were unable to signal and advertise their intellectual prowess and grasp of philosophy, then nobody would read it. It's a cycle of presumptuous, nonsense, and smugness.

[Anonymous No.10152776]

>>10152727