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/lit/ - Literature


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10118895 No.10118895 [Reply] [Original]

so until now I've ignored all the threads and talk about this man but I believe I want to familiarize myself with his oeuvre.

Where do I start with JP?

>> No.10118899

start with >>>/his/ and >>>/pol/ and fuck off

>> No.10118901

Maps of Meaning

>> No.10118920

>>10118895
check the archive

>> No.10118921

>>10118895
Don't read anything ever and watch youtube videos, taking it all for granted

>> No.10119076

>>10118895
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Ys4tQPRis

>> No.10119085

>>10119076
This anon is correct, this is where you start.

>> No.10119098
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10119098

>>10118895

>> No.10119137

>>10118921
Unironically this.

>> No.10119578

>>10118895
Neck yourself

>> No.10120113
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10120113

>> No.10120126

That depends. Are you in need of a father figure and a boogeyman to rail against? If yes, just watch his lectures. If no, skip him and read Jung.

>> No.10120230

>>10118895
His Youtube channel. It's safe to end there too, his influence certainly does.

>> No.10120239

>>10118895
I KNOW THIS WHOLE THREAD WAS JUST DESIGNED TO OISS ME OFF FOR USING THE WORD OEUVRE! FUCK YOU! WHY IS LIT USING THIS WORD SINCE THAT JAP WON THE FUCKING NOBEL! YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO THIS WORD M8

>> No.10120259

I could beat Jordan Peterson in a fight. I could beat him so hard it makes me hard. Jordan Peterson, if you're reading this, I am going to physically destroy you with my fists

>> No.10120263

Watch his lectures if you want to hear him tell the same few stories over and over again in a ranting pseudo-intellectual style.

>> No.10120274

Is this guy being sincere, or is he just doing what he's doing for easy money?

>> No.10120278

Wtf, I sincerely thought this board would love an academically informed clinical priest giving sermons every week...

>> No.10120280

>>10120274
I think he's sincere, since he's been doing the same lectures for years and years before he became meme-rich.

>> No.10120284

>>10120278
This board is full of pseuds who refuse to accept their nihilism isn't actually cool or smart and is in fact dumb and narcissistic

>> No.10120290

>>10120284
I also honestly thought the majority of this board was conservative who would find Petersons scientifically and politically charged yet gentle Christian sermons comfy as fuck. Guess I misread the crowd.

>> No.10120297

>>10120290
>thinking a practical philosophy of accepting responsibility and critiquing yourself would be popular on an indonesian voodoo doll crafting forum which people use as an escape from the responsibilities of real life

>> No.10120302
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10120302

>>10120297
Good point. Though I am here and I unironically kick ass.

>> No.10120303

>>10120290
the majority of this board is intellectuals who read plato dude

>> No.10120306

>>10120303
And if plato was making weekly YouTube videos I'd assume people would love those too.

>> No.10120310

>>10120306
What minecraft mods would Plato use?

>> No.10120320

>>10120310
He would just use Minecraft as an update of his cave metaphor and people would say he sold out and was just retelling the same old shit in a rambling way.

>> No.10120323

>>10120284
>Anyone who disagrees with JP is a narcissistic nihilist
*tips cross*
*unsheats Bible*

>>10120302
>I unironically kick ass
>Posting babby's first renaissance art
Holy mother of cringe.

>> No.10120324

>>10120290

You're on fucking 4chin it's contrarian headquarters.
If something is big enough that you've actually heard of it then it's already hated here.

>> No.10120330
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10120330

>>10120323
Kek, and you rank art in terms of what? You think you see David once and then what, graduate from it? I don't think you really get art, anon.

>>10120324
Yeah, I guess we all hate on Michaelangelo as well now. HATE!

>> No.10120348

>>10120330

If you think you couldn't get a Michelangelo hate thread going then I invite you to start one.
In the same post you just wrote you responded to someone calling David "babby's first art" and "cringe."
You're off to a good start.
You seem to be quite stupid though so I'm out.

>> No.10120355

Who here unironically thinks they're smarter than Jordy B Memerson?

>> No.10120357

>>10120348
>I'm out
Like you were assessing the quality of the this thread before my post and thought any of this was a good use of time. Yeah, THEN it went downhill. Good call, anon, wow you are really discerning.

>> No.10120403

>>10119076
This is great, he explains what truth fundamentally is very interestingly, along with some great insight into where philosophers went wrong. Don't underestimate Peterson.

>> No.10120421

>>10120348
I'm just pissed because retarded right-winger Amerifats use renaissance art to LARP as fucking Well-Read™ Gentlemen ™ who-appreciate-the-great-artists-of-the-western-civilization™ without even understanding them and then they go on on how they hate modern art and blablablabla and they also always post the same three paintings/sculptures to signal their retarded peers how supposedly smart they are and then they go on how some philosophers who they haven't even read have ruined everything and all of this with a faux magniloquent prose which serves to mask their lack of a brain with a curtain of pretty sounding words and a ridiculous imitation of a high tone and it's sad it's so fucking sad how could some be so fucking retarded that he distorts everything through 4chan mental lenses Jesus fucking Christ stop posting about my beloved Michelangelo you fucking ameritard brainlets you're the fucking scum of the earth and I hate myself for coming to this place

>> No.10120430
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10120430

>> No.10120433

>>10120421
>I hate myself
Post boils down to this desu.

>> No.10120454
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10120454

>>10118895
>Where do I start with JP?
You don't.

>> No.10120455

>>10119098
>clean your room you useless piece of shit!

vs.

>clean your room and you might stop being a useless piece of shit

>> No.10120460

>>10120433
True but I hate retarded Americans more than I hate myself desu sempaitachi

>> No.10120471

>>10120460
Love is the answer sir.

>> No.10120485

>>10120421
love you fellow non-amerifat
have a (You)

>> No.10120489

>>10120471
I already have plenty of love in my life kind sir but then I have this bad habit of coming to 4chan and here I see all sorts of edgy Americans using my beloved renaissance artists as a means to fight their nonsense politics war and my blood starts boiling

>> No.10120494

>>10120489
I was the one who posted it, I'm not American, and I don't have a political agenda outside Beethoven's treatise that the function of government should be to support art.

>> No.10120507

>>10120494
I'm sorry, sometimes I let this place get to my nerves too easily. Post the Discobolus next time so I know you aren't a LARPing American.

>> No.10120525
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10120525

>>10120507
I'll post whatever the heck I want to post but I wish you all the best.

>> No.10120538

coulda been an interesting thread but pipo w r*ddit accounts came here to sperg out

sad!

>> No.10121507

>>10120355
He doesnt come across as that smart. His arguments are super flawed half the time. He fails at making logical conclusions. He doesnt supply citations in his lectures. He misreads half the shit he talks about. He hasnt contributed anything particularly groundbreaking to his academic field.

Obviously he isnt dumb, but a lot of graduate students and academics are smarter than Peterson, and probably quite a few people on this board.

>> No.10121521

>>10120280
This just tells me that he's been trying for years to become meme-rich

>> No.10121522

>>10120280
He at least panders to his fanbase at times. In a recent video he got asked if he supported gay marriage and he said yes, but because the questioner said it was being pushed by cultural marxists, he said he wouldn't support it in that case.

>> No.10121526

You can start with stop being a man child and clean your room

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjfClL6nogo

>> No.10121583

as someone who thought he was interesting

dont bother, its just right wing antisjw gamers who want someone to tell them they are special because theyre men and unhappy with being unsuccesful losers, and other shit they already want to hear like feminists are the devil

you can see what this guy's shtick is by how he flip flopped from calling MRA and theredpill people losers to changing his tune and literally saying im sorry to unironical misoginists who say that basically all women "want to ride the cock carousel then settle" -as if they are some special being that dont want to have as many sexual partners as possible in their daily lives- and rambling about some bullshit about how today women in the US/Canada have an advantage in the courts in divorce, as if one somehow makes the other not valid, he's a cuck who found out he can play with the balls of losers who have trouble with women for their money

also if you want to see why he says nothing of substance in regards to freedom of speech, go look at his interactions with canadian law makers -you know about the law that started his fame, that is literally just an extension of protected classes to stuff like gender identity, that does absolutely nothing of the things he pretends online in his videos it does, and the canadian lawmakers called him out explicitly while he just rambled as if he was doing one another of his youtube videos and not as if someone just refuted every premise he tried to push

>> No.10121657

>>10121583
Not gonna lie, former Peterson supporter here. This is fucking hilarious watching Peterson crash and burn. But in all seriousness we can't let this guy rescue the father from the underworld.

>> No.10121859

>>10120274
It's obviously for easy money. Jordan Peterson saw that the anti-SJW crowd was becoming then next hot trend so he took advantage of that to whine in public about gender pronouns. He managed to frame the situation as an educated man being oppressed by the system, when in reality all that happened was that the University of Toronto sent a strongly worded letter that probably meant nothing in the grand scheme of things. He never got fired from his job, no one committed an act of violence or terror against him, and his "issue" ultimately amounted to nothing more than an oversensitive college student complaining about something in class and him saying no. It was the most first word form of "oppression" there was. Yet the anti-SJW crowd on the internet latched on to this as if he was a martyr, a hero standing for the little man against the evil SJW menace, which is evidently the most important issue of our time. They view him as an authority figure, a trophy to wave around and say "see? We're not dumb, this guy believes in the same things we do, and he's a professor!" when in reality they're all just being marketed to. On top of that, they, too, get to feel "smart" and "cultured" by being associated with him, without doing any actual academic legwork. To his credit, it paid off well. Not only does he still have his job as a professor, but he also makes 65k a month on Patreon, solely by uploading videos of himself talking in front of a camera.

His strategy is to whine about the nebulous, evil force of "postmodernism" and "cultural marxism", without directly attacking or citing any relevant literature like an actual academic. He never directly cites or addresses any of the works of Derrida, Foucault, Lyotard, or any by the "Frankfurt school", like Adorno, Marcuse, and Horkheimer. He just says "postmodernism is bad, bro" and "cultural marxism is bad, bro" without actually substantiating his claims by seriously addressing any of the relevant literature. Anyone can blame all of their problems on a vague, oppressive force but to actually fix anything or come up with a practical solution you need to understand it and define it concretely.

Jordan Peterson just happened to check off all of the boxes for internet culture at the time.
>I want someone smart to validate that SJWs are dumb
Check.
>I want to feel oppressed and fight against "something"
Check.
>I want to feel smart without actually working for it
Check.

>> No.10121888

>>10121859
>Anyone can
This is where you (and most others) are wrong. What Peterson is doing is true sophistry, it's art. Saying everybody could do this is factually wrong. He has a mix of high credentials, rhetoric and immunity to peer pressure that made him who he is today. In fact, nobody else is doing it, because they can't. He's raking in mad $ with philosophy. Let that sink in before you guys insult him further. It's the equivalent of "Lol Trump is so stupid, Hillary was too intelligent to win".

>> No.10121898

>>10120455
t. useless piece of shit

>> No.10121901

His maps of meaning lectures are pretty good, I would watch those. I haven't read the book, so I can't tell you how good it is.

He does in fact specifically address postmodern philosophers, but people gloss over that for whatever reason.

>> No.10121911

>>10121888
I was thinking about this the other day. How did Peterson become so good at sophistry? I think it has something to do with his work as a psychologist, perhaps he studied psychology of the masses or something like that. We should look into his academic publications (not maps of meaning) and find out. I'd do this myself but I don't know where to look.

>> No.10121943

>>10121526
Literally just bullshitting some psychological platitudes on top of the Peter Pan story. If you find this deep, you're a dumbass. The reason JP is criticized so much is not even because people think he's wrong but that he's shallow. His "advice" is so commonsensical and obvious that it's laughable how deep people try to make it. This whole video can be boiled down to "Man-children are bad because they want to stay like children, because children have more potential, but eventually you need to grow up and limit yourself". Wow, so deep!

>> No.10121964

>>10121943
not deep enough for you huh?

What about him proving meaning is literally real?

https://youtu.be/R7E_4c_s9y8?t=269

>> No.10121974

>>10121901
No, he "mentions" someone like Derrida once or twice. He never directly addresses his work, just namedrops him and associates him with a vague criticism that isn't actually substantiated by any evidence or citations.

>> No.10121977

>>10121943
>ugh I can't actually disagree with anything he says but ummm he's stupid!!!

>> No.10121978

>>10121522
He gave reasons for not trusting the push by cultural marxists, its not like he just said it to appease his fanbase.

>> No.10122030

>>10121964
>>10121977
I love this guy but he's more of a self-help lecturer than a philosopher.

>> No.10122037

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ifi5KkXig3s
caduceus and DNA, isn't it crazy they resemble each other, maaang
made me a thinken

>> No.10122068

>>10122030
He's the only public intellectual in a Stalinist police state who had the integrity to go on TV and say that the empress has no vagina.

If Diogenes is a philosopher then so is Peterson.

>> No.10122129

>>10118895
go to /lit/ archive and read one of the thousand or so threads that repeat the same old shit over and over again

>> No.10123032

>>10121974
He believes their whole premise is untendable. Won't even be able to directly criticise someone like Derrida, when his whole philosophy centers around the relativistic nature of interperation. Peterson's arguments would be claimed to be white man's assertions of power and an unability to feel what it's like to be part of an "opressed class". Rightfully believed seen within a postmodernist framework. But it takes the right away to make the argument that he doesn't engage Derrida, or anyone else in his camp.

>> No.10124013

>>10118895
Got an iphone? Listen to all the podcasts he's uploaded onto itunes on his channel. It's an abbreviated amalgamation of maps of meaning, some interviews and speeches, and his bible lecture series. It's not everything, not by a long shot, but it does well.

>> No.10124029
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10124029

Does Peterson get all the attention that F. W. J. von Schelling rightfully deserves?

>> No.10124047

>>10121888
>>10121911
Not making an argument here but asking a legitimate question, as I'm only minimally exposed to the Greeks. If one orients himself unquestionably towards one ideal, that is, to tell the truth completely in each moment, THOUGH recognises that truth will manifest differently in each moment and call forth different things to say in each moment because of the inherent contradictions and limitations of language: does that make you a sophist?

Peterson believes truth emerges from a biological evolutionary scale as a pragmatist reality. Not based solely on argument. He doesn't seem like a sophist to me.

>> No.10124209

>>10118895
Start with his video about trans pronouns and then do Joe Rogan. After that some of his lectures the sound interesting to you.

>> No.10124235

>>10118899
fpbp.
too bad no one ever listens.

>> No.10126078

>>10121888
>raking in mad $ with philosophy
See now, that's a serious achievement.

>> No.10126170

Oh fuck no someone is making money by giving advice to roasties I need to bully on a daily basis. How will I stroke my ego when they become happy or successful /lit/?

>> No.10126181

>>10126170
Nail on the fucking head. And also
>how will I feel self important at social events if I can't pretend people haven't been exposed to the same books and ideas as me, I'll actually have to *gulp* TALK about them

>> No.10126243

>>10121898
kek

>> No.10126244

Start here:
https://medium.com/@valkyrie8411/50-books-recommended-by-dr-jordan-peterson-8b03c374e9c

In which you find authors completely foreign to /lit/ such as Huxley, Orwell, Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, Freud, Nietzsche, whom /lit/ never discusses, never ever.

>> No.10126294
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10126294

>>10124047
Getting payed to philosophize makes you a sophist in the original sense. Nobody can tell whether one truly believes in what one says. What is clear is that nobody needs 30k/month to make a few videos telling "the truth". If he at least used that money to do something philosophy-related people probably wouldn't be calling him a sophist.
It's a different argument than the one which says that Peterson is himself a postmodernist, which is what you were talking about with the mutable definition fo truth.

>> No.10126301

>>10126294
uhh its now $64k

>> No.10126302

>>10126294
>If he at least used that money to do something philosophy-related people probably wouldn't be calling him a sophist.

Isn't that precisely what his Biblical Series is?

>> No.10126312

A pseudo intellectual psychology professor and youtube celebrity was teaching a class on postmodernism,

”Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Carl Jung and accept that he was the most highly-evolved human the world has ever known, even greater than Homer!”

At this moment, a brave, well read, pro-canon /lit/idf champion who had posted 1500 threads on plebs and understood the necessity of dialectics and fully grasped all intricacies of the Frankfurter Schüle stood up and held up a rock.

”How do you explain this, pinhead?”

The arrogant professor smirked quite and smugly replied “Scientifically its a lump of atoms you stupid regressive”

”Wrong. all science is a construct based on axiomatic logic, if Nietzsche was as you say right about our culture… then all logic should be thoroughly criticized right now”

The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of The Gulag Archipelago. He stormed out of the room crying those pseud crocodile tears. The same tears pseuds cry for the “truth” (wich today is so formed by discursive powerstructures that it is meaningless) when they greedily try to claw wealth from their foolish wagecuck audience. There is no doubt that at this point our professor, Jordan B(*tch) Peterson, wished he had pulled himself up by his bootstraps and become more than a sophist celebrity professor. He wished so much that he had a gun to shoot himself from embarrassment, but he himself had fought against male suicide!

The students applauded and all started with the Greeks that day and accepted Bloom as their lord and saviour. A falcon named “Patrician” flew into the room and perched atop the American Flag and shed a tear on the chalk. The Dialektik der Aufklärung was read several times, and Pynchon himself showed up and enacted literary goofs and pranks across the country.

The professor lost his tenure and was fired the next day. He died trying to comprehend Moby Dick and was deleted of the internet for all eternity.

Fucking Pleb.

>> No.10126313
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10126313

>>10126301

Wow, you weren't even kidding: it's $64,584 per month now.

>> No.10126318

>>10126302
Philosophers get invited and give lectures all the time around America/Europe and they certainly don't get paid as much because what they say (what anyone says) is simply not that valuable. With that much money he could be the one hosting events and inviting other people, if not outright open a philosophical salon of his own.

>> No.10126322

>Make $64k a month
>Still charge $35 for your self-authoring program
>Still charge $10 for your 100 questions personality test
>Still charge for tickets to watch your bible lectures

So what "exactly" does he do with all that money?

>> No.10126328

>>10126322
And mind you, he also has his salary from his job, which he never lost.

>> No.10126344

>>10120259
This is the kind of literary opinion I wanna hear!

>> No.10126349

>>10126322

>So what does he do with all that money?

Why do you care exactly?

>> No.10126352
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10126352

>>10126322
He buys fancy suits.

>> No.10126355

>>10126352
why do people feel the need to bring their secret internet club into real life?

>> No.10126358

>>10126322
>Being a commie in 2017

>> No.10126363

>>10126355
I blame varying degrees of autism or compensation for lack of an offline life.

>> No.10126475

>>10118921
This but unironically.

>> No.10126477

>>10120430
I wonder if the person who wrote that thought they were on to something or if it was just a joke?

>> No.10126534

>>10126322
I don't see the problem in what you're describing, not to mention he uploads the bible lectures to youtube.

>> No.10126541

>>10120290
>gentle Christian
He's an atheist.

>> No.10126577

>>10126355
newfags man, newfags

>> No.10126582

>>10118921
Unironically this butt

>> No.10126592

>1. Get philosophy degree
>2. Make you tube videos pandering to repressed feelings and chancing bogeymen
>3. Profit
>Showed you Dad!

The man is clever, I have to say.

>> No.10126722

>>10126322
whining about SJWs makes a lot of $$$, anon
i like how his audience doesn't realize he's effectively the anti-SJW version Anita Sarkeesian
>make uninformed videos about a subject you know nothing about
>pretend to be oppressed when you aren't
>make sympathy bucks
to his credit tho at least he relied on a patreon instead of a kickstarter

>>10126592
it's not even a philosophy degree, he majored in psychology

>> No.10127831

>>10126541
I wasn't describing him, I was describing his sermons.

>> No.10128643

>>10126322
He's trying to make a free online university with legitimate qualifications apparently. It would be pretty ironic if the guy who constantly goes on about not being deceitful and to aim for the highest good ended up spending all the money on a mansion and cars.

>> No.10128648

>>10119076
Why is it that pretty much everything he's saying here strikes me as true? Why do people here treat him like he's some psued nobody?

>> No.10128693

Start by cleaning your room

>> No.10128709

>>10128648
because /lit/, by way of being connected to 4chan, is composed of different factions. there are some here who come to talk about literature, and there are some who bleed over from /pol/ and constantly ask about shit like "meme trilogies" and "which of muh high school reading list is /lit/ approved?" if you find his ideas insightful in any way, well,

he's the most placid, mediocre thinker that 4chan has flocked to and his popularity should probably be the biggest motivator of any sane person to want to shoot themselves

>> No.10128746

>>10126352
Faggot turns his face to his left and spits.

Jordan- "OK." Turns his head to his left and walks away with a disappointed smirk and eyes.

>> No.10128749

>>10118895
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97jBvbmY03g

>> No.10128753

>>10126352
>/pol/ irl

>> No.10128754

>>10120113
>clickbait: the book

>> No.10128774

>>10126352
what the hell is even that thing? why are all members of gen z gender ambiguous soy untermenschen? we are doomed.

>> No.10128775

>>10128648
Once you've listened to a couple of his lessons he becomes a broken record really fast. Like, 50%+ of each lecture is recycled content, and I'm not talking about his lectures from different years, even his interviews and podcasts are just the same thing over and over.
What triggers /lit/ the most is his open misuse of the term "postmodern" though, and the fact that he never addresses any specific author/work. One could be excused to think he never even read them.
I guess whatever he teaches is still better than most trash that gets passed for humanities in Canada.

>> No.10128923

>>10126358
this

>> No.10128930

>>10126358
it's 2017 my dude, you are either a commie or rooting for technocapital apocalypse and death via Evil AI God

>> No.10129041

>>10126541
yahooyellow pls go

>> No.10129050
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10129050

>>10128754
How so anon?

>> No.10129124

>>10120421
Good post

>> No.10129268

>>10121583
Which Canadian lawmakers? The only video I saw is where he actually destroys one of them.

>> No.10129278

>>10118895
We had Marshall McLuhan now we have Jordan Peterson.
Downgrade desu senpai

>> No.10129283

>>10118895
A 31-page/71-paragraph/43-reference document from Monday, September 27th, 1999 titled "MAPS OF MEANING : THE ARCHITECTURE OF BELIEF
PRECIS" -- it's basically the beginning of his "now," then.

>> No.10129945

>>10121657
jej