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/lit/ - Literature

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1004915 No.1004915 [Reply] [Original]

Here's what I heard said in /sci/:
>Maths is basically the ultimate liberal arts degree.
>If the point of a liberal arts major is to develop the thinking skills one has, then math is the liberal major of choice since it does that best.
Do you think it's true in any way?

>> No.1004917

math grad here, yes. Although i do think it develops a different kind of thinking than libarts do.

>> No.1004918

it might be true.

but on the other hand that's establishing a metanarrative, and you wouldn't want to do that.

unless you're a violent piece of shit that is.

>> No.1004921

Philosophy with concentrations in logic and/or philosophy of math would be better.

>> No.1004920

Unlike in liberal arts, a math major can survive without being about to communicate well or at all.

>> No.1004922

True or not, I take solace in the fact that since math is a method for understanding and discussing the world, it must be a language.

>> No.1004925

>>1004918
But denying metanarratives is a metanarrative in itself...

>> No.1004926

>>1004922

yes, but if language language allows you to say and do anything, mathematics are restricted to the physics of a world that is not even necessarily of such nature.

>> No.1004928

>>1004925
I'm not denying it. I'm just remarking that you would be a piece of shit to establish one.

>> No.1004929

>>1004922
just like the unconscious

>> No.1004930

>>1004928
Don't you make yourself a 'piece of shit' by establishing the meta narrative of non-establishment?

>> No.1004934

>>1004930

No. I'm not establishing nor non-establishing. It was a good hearted warning.

>> No.1004939

>>1004934
If you say so, lol.

Do you think psychoanalysis could be considered a metanarrative?

>> No.1004938

>>1004926
There is treachery in both, in that we may endeavor forever to explain the world to ourselves and one another and never know if we were sufficient or even close. I don't see the child as more restrictive than the parent. Language itself is very restrictive.

>> No.1004943

>>1004938
Maths is a language that, just like natural languages, allows you to express what is not real. It is bound not by physics but rather by it's own grammar.

>> No.1004944

>>1004943
*its
fuck me

>> No.1006103

>>1004939
psychoanalysis is indeed a metanarrative

>> No.1006125
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1006125

Math: memorize this formula. Now memorize this one.

Yeah. Great way to flex you mental muscles and expand the scope of your understanding.

>> No.1006137

If math is a language, write a book in it.

>> No.1006143 [DELETED] 

>>1006125
> Math: memorize this formula. Now memorize this one.

BITCHES DON'T KNOW 'BOUT MY DISCRETE MATH

_____________________________________________________________________________________
98% of "Americans" won't stand up for God.
Be one of the 2% that will, copy this in your signature.

LIE-BRILS: If YOU don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand IN FRONT of them.
Socialism KILLS, AMERICA saves; GOD bless RONALD REAGAN

i'm a hArDcOrE (xXx†hXc†xXx) Christian fiRsT, AnD i b3lEve iN ev0luTion Wh3n mY MuDkIp rEaChEs Lv 18.

>> No.1006147

>>1006137
read principia mathematica

>> No.1006152

>>1006147

That appears to be written in English, not math.

>> No.1006160

>>1006125
Let me guess... you failed math a few times and you hate it? Or your last contact with mathematics was in an American high-school?

>> No.1006163

Mathematics teaches you problem solving.

Like solving the problem of being unemployed because you have a liberal arts degree.

>> No.1006164

>>1006137
ITT: bickering over terminology

>> No.1006165

/lit/ - literature

>> No.1006173

>>1006163

>>BS in mathematics
>>any job I want
>>300k starting
_____________________________________________________________________________________
98% of "Americans" won't stand up for God.
Be one of the 2% that will, copy this in your signature.

LIE-BRILS: If YOU don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand IN FRONT of them.
Socialism KILLS, AMERICA saves; GOD bless RONALD REAGAN

i'm a hArDcOrE (xXx†hXc†xXx) Christian fiRsT, AnD i b3lEve iN ev0luTion Wh3n mY MuDkIp rEaChEs Lv 18.

>> No.1006180
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1006180

>>1006160
Nope. Did quite well in it, but found it boring and unstimulating. I'd much rather study something interesting.

>> No.1006187

The problem with liberal arts is that in liberal arts it's far too easy for a fool to survive. However, real achievement there is as common, if not more, as in mathematics.

>> No.1006190

>>1006180
So... you're seriously saying mathematics is about memorizing formulas, and yet you maintain that this is not because you only had a passing acquaintance with the subject? I see...

Fuck you. Repeatedly. In the face.

>> No.1006205

>>1006180

So, you took Calc 1 as part of your gen eds and never went further.

>> No.1006217
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1006217

>>1006190
You seem to be somewhat upset.
>>1006205
No point in going further when the basic subject matter is of no interest to you.

>> No.1006222

The binary nature of the mathematical language is its biggest limitation. Everything must be absolutely right or absolutely wrong, and there are no shades of gray. Taking an irreducibly complex universe and reducing it to ones and zeros does it no more justice than a stick figure does the likeness of a man.

>> No.1006223

>>1006217
you're kind of a bit misinformed on what maths is
just a bit

>> No.1006228

>>1006222

Man what are you even talking about

Math is about numbers, not describing the universe. That's physics.

>> No.1006234

>>1004921

Finally, a board, or at least a lurker of a board, that understands what the end goal of philosophy truly is. I am so sick of this hurr durr philosophy is bull shit nonsense that I could scream.

>> No.1006235
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1006235

>>1006223
Whatever. Equations aren't interesting, no matter how much you try to dress them up.

>> No.1006245

>>1006228
Maths is not about numbers, it's about rings and the fucking Groebner basis.

>> No.1006247

>>1006217
Not really. I just tell trolls to fuck off.

I mean, supposing you actually claimed that mathematics is basically about memorising formulas - and I can't convince myself otherwise - you may either be a troll or an idiot. I chose to give you some credit.

Now, don't take this the wrong way - given the alternatives, I hope that my error lies earlier and you simply did not get as much exposure as you claim. In that case, I heartily recommend you read this - you'll know how your education got fucked through no fault of your own:

http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf

>> No.1006248

They're different forms of thinking. Math is a problem solving activity while most liberal arts focus on examination.

Neither is inherently better as a means of thinking, but each have their strengths in different situations.

>> No.1006263

>>1006235

>>Implying serious math is rote learning

LOL, let me guess, you grinded through AP calc and did the bare minimum math requirement in college?

Even freshman cs and engineer majors take abstract math classes. You are smalltmie.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
98% of "Americans" won't stand up for God.
Be one of the 2% that will, copy this in your signature.

LIE-BRILS: If YOU don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand IN FRONT of them.
Socialism KILLS, AMERICA saves; GOD bless RONALD REAGAN

i'm a hArDcOrE (xXx†hXc†xXx) Christian fiRsT, AnD i b3lEve iN ev0luTion Wh3n mY MuDkIp rEaChEs Lv 18.

>> No.1006268

>>1006263
I majored in trolling.

>> No.1006272

>>1006247
> http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf

>> No.1006275

can I ask is it possible to learn the logical calculus and philosophy of maths doing a liberal arts degree without pre-undegrad higher maths expirience e.g. entry level calc, trig etc?

>> No.1006277

Mathematics alone make us feel the limits of our intelligence. For we can always suppose in the case of an experiment that it is inexplicable because we don't happen to have all the data. In mathematics we have all the data and yet we don't understand. We always come back to the contemplation of our human wretchedness. What force is in relation to our will, the impenetrable opacity of mathematics is in relation to our intelligence.

>> No.1006279

>>1006235
So Gödel's Incompleteness Theory isn't interesting?

>> No.1006280

>>1006275
Yes. And it isn't hard if you're smart.

>> No.1006290

>>1006277
Philosophy and, to some lesser extent, rhetoric are like that, too.

>> No.1006296

>>1006275
Yes, I suggest reading "Introduction to Metamathematics" by Kleene, it's a self-contained text

>> No.1006300

>>1006280
thanks man, I was going to try anyway but you've given me a big confidence boost.

>> No.1006307

>>1006296
thankyou anon, I found this free one aswell if anyones interested: http://www.math.psu.edu/simpson/courses/math557/logic.pdf

>> No.1006310
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1006310

>>1006247
Not everyone is a boarderline autistic mathlete who looks at fractions and thinks "HOLY SHIT! THESE ARE AWESOME!"
>>1006279
Interesting to some people. Most people don't give a shit. I'm lucky enough to be one of them.

>> No.1006315

I remember my Algebra teacher would always tell us that "Math was the language with which God wrote the Universe." I always thought that was really poetic. Though I still vandalized his whiteboard everyday with the names of literary geniuses.

>> No.1006318

>>1006310
Do read the PDF I linked. You really have no idea what math is all about... and you don't know that you don't know. Well, your loss, either way.

In short - your argument is basically like someone saying that music sucks because "hey, not everybody gets a nerdgasm when they see a bunch of notes".

>> No.1006319

i liked maths until...vector analysis. admittedly i didn't make any effort, but i didn't feel like getting raped.

>> No.1006321

>>1006315
thats a good one, I always think of the Richard Dawkins quote: 'science [maths] is the poetry of reality'

>> No.1006326

>>1006307
Simpson is a legend, check out his work on Reverse Mathematics, ground breaking stuff. If you want the story behind the foundations of mathematics I also suggest Logicomix .

>> No.1006325

>>1006310

Well, to be fair I did the same thing. Science is just running the same tired labs with results you should already know from the start, English was just a test to see how many times I could get the word "deconstruction" into an essay, and everyone knows history is crap.

So yeah, I choose math, because the CS kids are fucking weird, man.

>> No.1006324

>>1006318
Well, unless you don't like reading, too... which brings up the question - what the fuck are you doing on /lit/ in the first place?

>> No.1006330

even little girls have more reasonable reactions to maths than lit, just sayin

anyway, good troll op. 7.5/10

>> No.1006332

>>1006319

Vectors aren't so bad once you grind through them enough to get used to them, and you can do a whole lot of fun things with them. I prefer probability, but whateves.

>> No.1006337
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1006337

>>1006318
Seeing notes and hearing them played are two different things, broseph. Why don't you play me an equation, or paint me a formula sometime. You know, something that isn't numbers on a sheet of paper.

>> No.1006346

>>1006337

The solution is that the trolling equation diverges to infinite posts, sir.

>> No.1006348

>>1006337
Let me introduce you to this new concept... I call it "literally not being literal". In short - of all the things I wrote, this is what you're complaining about? It appears that my initial statement was as correct as I feared. So... yeah, fuck you. Have fun being a troll / an idiot. On the off-chance that you're just suffering from IQ drops when writing, read the damn thing I linked. You have no idea what math is... and yet you hold entrenched opinions about it.

>> No.1006349

>>1006326
you've made my day and possibly greatly aided my future career, many thanks

>> No.1006350

>>1006310
Gödel isn't for everyone, you might be interested in Tarski's undefinability theorem, I think it's profound, and very little math required.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarski%27s_undefinability_theorem

>> No.1006353

>>1006332
yea well, i was too lazy.

>> No.1006362

>>1006125

This person has not taken a math course since high school.

Or since "Statistics for Liberal Arts Majors".

>> No.1006370
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1006370

>>1006348
I know exactly what math is. Boring. Just because you get a boner for percentages doesn't mean you get to tell me what is and is not worth wasting my time on.

>> No.1006375

>>1006370
Lazy troll is lazy.

>> No.1006377

>>1006375
Says the man posting "X Y is X"

>> No.1006378

>>1006375
Lazy troll got told.

>> No.1006993

Bump
_____________________________________________________________________________________
98% of "Americans" won't stand up for God.
Be one of the 2% that will, copy this in your signature.

LIE-BRILS: If YOU don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand IN FRONT of them.
Socialism KILLS, AMERICA saves; GOD bless RONALD REAGAN

i'm a hArDcOrE (xXx†hXc†xXx) Christian fiRsT, AnD i b3lEve iN ev0luTion Wh3n mY MuDkIp rEaChEs Lv 18.

>> No.1007008

>>1006370

>Offer opinion, become defensive when others respond with theirs.
>Think of math as basic concepts learned in high school

So much dumb. So, so much dumb.

>> No.1007020

Philosophy done right is the best way to develop thinking skills.

Unfortunately, philosophy is rarely done right at most universities. Said it in another thread, only about 10-15 good philosophy programs in North America. Most are Catholic. Eat it.