/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.10025176]

>tfw practice writing fiction daily for a year and still shit
how do you know if you're actually learning anything?

[Anonymous No.10025177]

>>10025176
Joke: learning by writing
Woke: learning by reading

[Anonymous No.10025180]

>>10025177

HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU'RE ACTUALLY LEARNING ANYTHING?

[Anonymous No.10025186]

>>10025180
That's true of life in general tbqh.

[Anonymous No.10025202]

>>10025180
You're able to apply the things you've learned and achieve success in the real world. Oh wait, you're a writer lol

[Anonymous No.10025203]

>>10025180
And how will you inquire into a thing when you are wholly ignorant of what it is? Even if you happen to bump right into it, how will you know it is the thing you didn't know?

[Anonymous No.10025206]

>>10025202

[Anonymous No.10025237]

>>10025176

Throw your prose to the sharks, mang. Give us your word-baby and we'll tear it apart. That's how you learn. Submit your work to magazines, online "zines" anything. It could be a shitty rag printed in some skinny-fat hipster's basement that 4 people read. Just get it out there and get rejected. When you stop getting rejected it means you're getting better.

[Anonymous No.10025244]

>>10025206
god, he creeps me out. his skin is too tightly stretched over his face. is this the power of botox?

[Anonymous No.10025362]

>used to have a way with words and won contests
>cue soul-sucking research papers
>writing for my own sake becomes a trial
>stare at the blank page
>it stares back like a pseudo-abyss then I fuckin give up and die a little death
Yeah. I know that feel, just in a reverse way.

[Anonymous No.10025469]

>>10025362

>Not majoring in creative writing

There's where you went wrong

[Anonymous No.10026502]

>>10025244

It's called "Money"

It's expanded his life span past the average, meaning he's going to look much worse than anyone you, the peasant, have ever met in real life.

[Anonymous No.10026536]

>>10026502
yeah, but i can't imagine that the issue is completely divorced from his past coke abuse or whatever. he must have done something to counter that damage, and it landed him in the uncanny valley.

strangely, i've never seen anyone else comment on how fucking freakish the guy looks nowadays.

[Anonymous No.10026550]

>daily for a year
ten thousand hours nigga

[Anonymous No.10026567]

>>10026550
who could it bee?

[Anonymous No.10026571]

>>10026550
>>10026567
hey guize

[Anonymous No.10026649]

>>10025469
the fuck do you do with a degree in creative writing

[Dirk Abbott No.10026671]

>>10025176
Just read for enjoyment and come back every so often to write when you can. I haven't written for a month after spending nearly every day writing 500 words or more. I'm not anxious about getting back to it, because I know I always will go back eventually. Just ride the wave, anon, we'll all make something we're proud of eventually.

[Anonymous No.10026780]

>>10025176
>tfw writing is the only thing you're good at
>tfw you're still shit at writing

[Anonymous No.10026827]

>>10025180

Isn't this just the problem of inquiry?

[Anonymous No.10026907]

>>10025203
usually I just ask my dad and he tells me.

[Anonymous No.10026917]

>>10026907
lol, why didn't socrates' ugly ass think of that? anamnesis my foot!

[Anonymous No.10026919]

>>10026917
maybe he didn't have a dad

[Anonymous No.10026968]

>tfw wrote a novel 2 years ago
>tfw only wrote two short stories in 2 years

[Anonymous No.10026975]

>>10026649
Not that guy, but you dual degree with something actually useful. I'm going CS alongside it, for instance. I get professorial critique on my writing and fun classes exploring literary niches without the guilt of putting all my money towards a creative writing degree.

[Anonymous No.10027050]

>>10026975

And this is why you'll need a "real job" when your writing isn't up to par for full time employment.

[Anonymous No.10027236]

>>10027050
And when you need a "real job" because your righting isn't up to par you can just put a bullet in your head because you have a worthless degree.

[Anonymous No.10027261]

>>10026919
dude, his dad was the polis

too bad his dad killed him ;-(

[Anonymous No.10027276]

>>10027236

>righting

I can see you're putting those classes to go use...

[Anonymous No.10027285]

>>10027276
Extremely go use.

[Anonymous No.10027311]

>>10026975
>you dual degree with something actually useful.
If you think it a useless degree, why get it in the first place? Just stay a hobbyist writer if you think it so degrading to have only a writing degree.

[Anonymous No.10027998]

>>10026671

>500 words daily

Do you think that's a lot?

[Anonymous No.10029415]

How the fuck can you learn without proper mentorship? How do you guys know what to learn and how to move on? I've heard that getting a creative writing degree is not necessary but at the same time being on my own makes me confused as to what I am supposed to do in order to get proficiency at writing.

I've been writing a lot but I can't see any meaningful progress, so for me being self taught seems like something that isn't really real, at least not in the literal sense.

[Anonymous No.10029423]

>>10029415

[Anonymous No.10029433]

why do you guys waste your time trying to get into a field that's based around a star system where two dozen people get all the money and everyone else is poor or not working at all

[Anonymous No.10029439]

>>10029423

Seems like the most useless audiobook of all time. How can it possibly give you any advice without being about a specific field of study?

[Anonymous No.10029447]

>>10026536

He's less creepy in motion.

[Anonymous No.10029486]

>>10029433

Because you're not a real writer unless you're published.

Don't you want to be a real writer?

[Anonymous No.10029741]

>>10029486
no i have no interest in being a writer

[Anonymous No.10029748]

>>10027998
I would bet it's more than the vast majority of would-be writers do. I prefer to set the bar pretty low and do at least that no matter what than aiming for the 2-5k range and always going at it on-off. Small word counts add up. I set the goal of writing at least 800 words a day October 1st of last year and since then wrote a 240k words novel, another 120k one and a few short stories. There is still a lot of revision to do, but that's still better than I did most other years.

>>10029486
>you're not a real writer unless you're published
It depends. Simply getting published doesn't seem especially hard with all the small and borderline vanity publishers. If you're serious about writing and working at it daily, I think you can still call yourself a writer, even though you're not a professional one.

[Anonymous No.10029778]

>>10029433
Because we want to do something good anon. Why do sculptors sculpt or painters paint.

[Anonymous No.10029832]

All good writing is the product of extensive rewriting. There are some amazing examples of this in On Writing Well - he shows you how the book you're reading started off as crappy writing and became good through several rounds of rewriting. A writing group can help SO MUCH. I like the Online Writing Workshop - it's a mixed bag but you usually can get some excellent help there and it's free and online

[Anonymous No.10029849]

>>10029778
>Why do sculptors sculpt

that reminds me i really need to install zbrush on my laptop

[Anonymous No.10029877]

>>10029832
>All good writing is the product of extensive rewriting
Apart from a few freaks here and there, that's really the truth. It's too bad that it's a lot more fun to write than to revise though (I just started rewriting in the last year and I thought I was doing a lot better before I started to paying close attention to what I actually had put on the page, lol).

[Anonymous No.10030481]

>>10025176
Read lots of literature! Learn to notice how authors achieve their effects. Is a book scary? How is it made scary? How is mood achieved? How is characterisation achieved? You have to learn to notice. Throw away your Warhammer books and read real literature and over time you will learn

[Anonymous No.10030568]

>>10029415

-know the basics of your genre (classical short story structure, etc)

-analyzing what you read (is the prose any good? Why? Why not?)

-copying what works and avoiding what doesn't

What you're going for is the ability to recognize whether your work is shit or not. If you can do that and point out the errors, you can always copy an esteemed writer's solution to the problem.

When I recognized that my images were weak and that I went into purple prose territory, I singled out a descriptive part in my work, and opened A farewell to arms. At first I ditched half of the adjectives, and rewrote my paragraph that way. After that I copied Hemingway's sentence structure. Then I tried to keep as many adjectives as possible while keeping that sentence structure intact. I kept going until I had a dozen pages full of a single paragraph, rewritten over and over. I compared them and looked for the one that fit best into my work. This is what worked for me.

[Anonymous No.10030897]

>>10030568

Jesus, how long does it take you to finish a single page?

[Anonymous No.10031135]

>>10030897

It took like 5 or 6 hours of writing until I "settled on a style" by doing what I described, so about a day with breaks and other activities. It went down from there as I got used to utilizing what I've learned. Now it's about 15 minutes if I already know what I'm going to write, not counting editing.

I used this method to find the right tools to use, I don't need it anymore. I'll get back to it when I try something that's new and unusual for me.

[Anonymous No.10031918]

>>10025176
Have people read your work, people you trust to give you honest, constructive feedback. The less feedback you get about what needs changing, the better you're doing.

[Anonymous No.10032485]

>>10031918

How can you tell the difference between someone who just doesn't understand and someone who actually has real concerns?

[Anonymous No.10032498]

>>10025469
If those teaching you creative writing we're any good they'd be publishing great fictional books. It's like retards who waste money on acting lessons, if the acting teachers were good they'd be actors.

[Anonymous No.10032500]

>>10032485
>How can you tell the difference between someone who just doesn't understand and someone who actually has real concerns?
Get it read by a few people. If no one understand, they're likely not the problem. What your intent was when you wrote doesn't matter, what matter is if it works or not.

[Anonymous No.10032503]

>>10032498

>If football coaches were good, they'd be playing football

This is how retarded you sound

[Anonymous No.10032512]

>>10032503
Football revolves around the freak of the freak athletes who have gone through physical meat grinder for a decade. It's different

[Anonymous No.10032520]

>>10025180
learning is an unconscious process

[Anonymous No.10032528]

>>10032512

And (good) writing revolves around the freak of the freak storytellers who have gone through the mental meat grinder for a decade. It's the same.

[Anonymous No.10032539]

>>10032512
Even though it's less visible, good writers rely as much on genetic lottery than good footballers. It might not be outwardly visible, but I really think it's true. It's possible to have all the technical knowledge in the world without being able to write anything worth a damn.

[Anonymous No.10032543]

>>10029415
Look for online courses. Listen to writing podcasts. Learn from writing blogs that mentor other writers (MonkeyCollective, Making Writers Become Authors, etc...). Make sure you are letting other critique your writing and go from there. Mentorship is easy in the age of the internet. It is everywhere and sometimes even free.

Also read. Understand how you favorite authors write engaging stories.

[Anonymous No.10032546]

>>10032528
No. Because you can write until you die. Freddie Roach would be boxing if he was still in his prime . In all coaches is an ex player who was not good enough to be a superstar.

[Anonymous No.10032553]

>>10025176
Anon, the book must wish to be created itself before you can write it. It will call out to you if it has chosen you as its maker.

[Anonymous No.10032561]

>>10025180
Is it better than it was a year ago?

If it's the exact same shit, are you continuing to write the exact same shit over and over again? Or are you trying new things, challenging yourself, even if you fail still sticking it through and writing it to the end?

If no, it's no real surprise why you suck.

[Anonymous No.10032563]

>>10025176
Anon, the book must wish to be created itself before you can write it. It will call out to you if it has chosen you as its maker.

[Anonymous No.10032570]

>>10032546
>Because you can write until you die.

No, it's like football, where you can play until your body gives out, but in writing, you can write until your mind gives out.

You've never heard of dementia?

>In all coaches is an ex player who was not good enough to be a superstar.

So we're agreed that good teaching and good playing are two completely different things?

[Anonymous No.10032575]

>>10032561

How do you know if your work is better than it was a year ago?

[Anonymous No.10032586]

>>10032575
>How do you know if your work is better than it was a year ago?
You should know it from looking at it. Often you will write something that you think is genius, then you go back to it and it looks clunky as hell. That means you are technically better or more knowledgeable now than you were then. That and outside feedback/reactions/acceptance rates I guess.

[Anonymous No.10032592]

>>10032543
Terrible advice. This is how people are still falling for the "MasterClass" scam. Let me guess, you've already taken a MasterClass?

[Anonymous No.10032595]

>>10032570
So you have 8 years in sports and 60 years in writing. If you have a writing teacher that has been unable to become an actual author and was forced to teach students how to become authors then you are simply learning from someone too dumb to make it. The only possible teacher is someone who has zero actual soul which is incapable of original ideas or creativity like an Editor so they are perfect on technical aspects. In that case you do not need a creative writing instructor.

[Anonymous No.10032597]

>>10032586
>You should know it from looking at it

[Anonymous No.10032610]

>>10032595

>If you have a football coach that has been unable to become an actual superstar abd was forced to coach players how to become superstars then you are simply learning from someone too dumb to make it.

Do you not understand how retarded the things you type are?

[Anonymous No.10032616]

>>10032595
You keep saying "superstar." Do you think that getting published is like being a superstar? A better analogy would be Nobel Prize winner, in which case you're an idiot if you think you can only learn writing from Nobel Prize winners.

[Anonymous No.10032618]

>>10032610
You believe that creativity can be taught. What you teach is technical aspects and if you are not capable to become something after that then not one failed teacher can write a book for you. Having a soul is not something you learn like painting a classic is not something you teach. Can you teach to be like Beethoven or Picasso? No. They understand the working and they are set to create work. You cannot teach someone anything beyond technical aspects of the writing structure.

[Anonymous No.10032629]

>>10032616
You take things too literally. A success is what you learn from. Those who teach are not successes as they would be producing work of value, not attempting to create students of value as they are not ones themselves. They are. Simply keep an infrastructure going. Brad Pitt is not an acting teacher because he can act. The same with Picasso.

You can have rare exceptions of fantastic writing successes such as Nobel winners but they write and teach a a part time because they have the ability to produce value.

[Anonymous No.10032631]

>>10032618
>You believe that creativity can be taught.

I never said that. Stick to the original argument or stop talking. What you said in >>10032498 was:

>If those teaching you creative writing we're any good they'd be publishing great fictional books.

I'm simply pointing out how retarded that is.

[Anonymous No.10032634]

>>10032629
>No writing teacher is capable of writing
What the fuck?

[Anonymous No.10032637]

>>10032629

Almost every institutional creative writing teacher is published. I'd like you to try and find one that is not.

Also, Brad Pitt OFTEN gives lectures on acting and takes part in acting seminars? Does this mean he is not a good actor because he "degrades" himself by teaching?

[Anonymous No.10032641]

>>10032597
Well, it's as if you asked "how do I know I'm drawing or painting better than a year ago". Writing is more abstract and can be harder to judge, but you should still be able to notice improvements. Even if you're very critical about your work, you should find that what you did a year ago sucks more than now.

[Anonymous No.10032647]

>>10032631
I am pointing out the truth. You deny it. If I was capable of winning a Nobel prize for writing I would not he teaching it as a professor... And history would prove to me that great successes create and produce work, not teach others who will very likely will never be a success. This comes to the reality that great writing cannot be taught. You can teach the structure of writing. But this only proves that creative writing is useless. As you cannot teach a soul as you cannot teach Picasso to create a Picasso.

[Anonymous No.10032651]

>>10032634

[Anonymous No.10032655]

>>10032647

>soul

[Anonymous No.10032659]

>>10032637
Published and forgotten, as they all are. Yes, Mr. Pitt. May lecture but he will never have his life consumbed by a life of mediocrity and forgetfulness of creation that professor's commit life to.

[Anonymous No.10032662]

>>10032647

Do you believe Picasso would have been capable of becoming a great artist if he had not first gone to the Real Academia de Bellas Artes de San Fernando.

Or are you one of those queers who thinks "IT WAS FATE"

[Anonymous No.10032666]

>>10032662
Picasso did not learn his creativity and artistic interest by a homosexual man with a brush and tupe. He may have learned the technicality of the act of painting but if you would have given him a painting arrangement as a child he would have painted work beyond many life time paint academic s . This is true.

[Anonymous No.10032668]

>>10032666
>Picasso did not learn his creativity and artistic interest by a homosexual man with a brush and tupe.

And you know this... how?

[Anonymous No.10032677]

>>10032662
>>10032666

Fate? Likely not. But he had an affinity for painting from birth. He did not get a teacher who has made many Picasso. There is only one Picasso. I am telling you this as a fact because I think you are of underwhelming intelligence likely sparked by a bout of a mother drinking too much wine

[Anonymous No.10032680]

Does writing on Reddit help writing skills? I have been writing like short essays basically about politics everydaybut I'm worried that the experience might not be valid? Also does non fiction writing make you better at all at fiction writing?


This is the last 12 days of reddit posts added up, excluding any one liner responses, only including responses which were a paragraph or more.

Anyone else wanna post wordcounts?

[Anonymous No.10032683]

>>10032680
>Also does non fiction writing make you better at all at fiction writing?

This is like asking if painting landscapes makes you a better painter of portraits

[Anonymous No.10032920]

>>10032683
Meh well.. at least it must help get passed the initial "writers bock." A lot of people sit down and have a hard time writing even a short essay so there is some merit in being able to just vomit through your fingers onto the page.

I have heard Stephen King would sometimes practice by typing other people's work. He has hundreds of unpublished stories, some which he has no recollection of writing. Also, isn't L. Ron Hubbard famous for shitting out thousands of manuscripts just for the hell of it? There is something to say for coming up with vast quantity because then you may stumble on quality!

For example the "library of babel" is an algorithm which has output every combination of letters 3200 characters long. So, in a way, when we are writing we are discovering rather than creating. You can describe creation as subtractive synthesis.

Also, do you guys pay attention to your average posts on 4chan and reddit? Like do you make a habit out of typing posts which are very eloquent? I noticed that much of my posts are very verbose.

Also, political books seem to be popular now for obvious reasons. How could one market and promote such a book without being an e-celeb. Is ghost writing a better option?

[Anonymous No.10032928]

>>10032920

If want to be on the level of King or Hubbard, that's your own damage.

I, for one, don't wish to be a hack,

[Anonymous No.10032964]

>>10032928
Well wouldn't it be better to write a few hacky books, get paid, and then write your masterpiece? Rather than spending two years coming up with nothing and *possibly* writing a masterpiece some day?

Isn't there something to be said for getting words on the page NOW?

And King wrote "The Dark Tower" series. The first book objectively being a masterpiece, and the rest of his shitty books made him almost a billionaire. So don't you think that his technique may have something of value in it?

Like honestly the best way to get money as an author is to write a book that hollywood buys, and isn't just writing massive quantities the best way to increase the probability of selling a script? I bet there is even an algorithm that someone could come up with which could predict a plot and characters which is most likely to be noticed by a hollywood producer?

[Anonymous No.10032975]

>>10032964

>Hacks
>Writing masterpieces

Oh ho ho ho he he he

[Anonymous No.10032978]

>>10032964
>Dark Tower
>Masterpiece

[Anonymous No.10033113]

If the writing is hard you're doing something right

[Anonymous No.10033114]

>>10032975
>>10032978
I think king captured the Clint Eastwood archetype perfectly and set him in a rewarding but mysterious fantastic world. Even if it was a bit random at times and King admitted he made it up as he went along, but the first book is objectively good.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjFuN00yGzI


> The door ripped off its hinges and fell straight in, making a flat handclap. Dust puffed up from the
floor. Men, women, and children charged him. Spittle and stove- wood flew. He shot his guns empty
and they fell like ninepins. He retreated, shoving over a flour barrel, rolling it at them, into the
barbershop, throwing a pan of boiling water that contained two nicked straight-razors. They came on,
screaming with frantic incoherency. From somewhere, Sylvia Pittston exhorted them, her voice rising
and falling on blind inflections. He pushed shells into hot chambers, smelling the smells of shave and
tonsure, smelling his own flesh as the calluses at the tips of his fingers singed.

> The gunslinger felt it touch him — the spirit of the oracle, the succubus. His loins were suddenly
filled with rose light, a light that was soft yet hard. He felt his head twisting, his tongue thickening and
becoming excruciatingly sensitive to even the spittle that coated it.
> “Don’t patronize me, Thing. I’m stronger than you. What do they call you, then? Star-slut? Whore
of the Winds?

> His legs carried him in a sudden leap through the entropy that held him, above the dangling boy,
into a skidding, plunging rush toward the light that offered, the Tower frozen on the retina of his
mind’s eye in a black frieze, suddenly silence, the silhouette gone, even the beat of his heart gone as
the tresde settied further, beginning its final slow dance to the depths, tearing loose, his hand finding
the rocky, lighted lip of damnation; and behind him, in the dreadful silence, the boy spoke from too
far beneath him. “Go then. There are other worlds than these.” It tore away from him, the whole
weight of it; and as he pulled himself up and through to the light and the breeze and the reality of a
new karma (we all shine on), he twisted his head back, for a moment in his agony striving to be
Janus- but there was nothing, only plummeting silence, for the boy made no sound.

I think its pretty good desu. What do you consider a masterpiece?

[Anonymous No.10033459]

>>10033114
>What do you consider a masterpiece?

Not genre shlock, that's for sure

[Anonymous No.10033704]

>>10033459
Idk what shlock means but ok. I mean that's cool and all if you want to be pretentious...

[Anonymous No.10033735]

>>10033704
Better pretentious than a hack

[Anonymous No.10033747]

>>10033735
Cant a hack type something good once in a while or would that violate the laws of physics?

Whats not hacky to you? "Lolita" or something?

[Anonymous No.10033759]

>>10027311
t. offended failure with a writing degree

[Anonymous No.10033777]

>>10025177
fpbp

[Anonymous No.10033779]

>>10033747

Let's start at the bounding line. Right on the "Not-Hack" side of the line, you have Ulysses.

I'm sure you can work your way up for there on what non-hack authors can create.

[Anonymous No.10033782]

>>10033777
But it doesn't even answer OP's question.

[Anonymous No.10033792]

>>10032498
You know most creative writing teachers are published authors, right? The same way that most acting teachers are professional actors?

[Anonymous No.10033851]

>>10033779
What about Harry Potter? Doesnt readability and ease of attention count for anything?

[Anonymous No.10033892]

>>10033851

>Harry Potter

Are you being serious right now?

[Anonymous No.10033912]

>>10033892
It's extremely easy to read and easy to pay attention to. I'd say that makes something well written. And the ending with Snape was planned from the beginning and reveal was masterful. Looking back on it, sure, there was some unnecessary details and sjwism but the fact I was willing to absorb all that at a young age means there was a level of mastery to how easily it grabbed attention from the reader.

I understand there is a place for stylized, poetic, sophisticated, writing and that's cool if you're into that sort of thing, but you if you deny what I am saying and pretend you're too intelligent then that makes you nothing but a try hard, edgy, contrarian hipster. I'm sorry.

[Anonymous No.10033916]

>>10033912
>It's extremely easy to read and easy to pay attention to.
>I'd say that makes something well written.

Real quick, how long have you been on /lit/?

[Anonymous No.10033951]

>>10033916
Why does it matter so much hipster? Something doesn't have to be a 50k word poem to be considered "good." You're allowed your subjective opinion but there are objective advantages to something being easy to read and pay attention to.

Do you understand how something which is too stylized or irregular can be considered poorly written? I agree that there is something to say for poetic, stylized writing which is not a pain in the ass the ass to read. But if something is very effortless to read, that is a quality on its own.

[Anonymous No.10033955]

>>10033951

Whatever you say, Rowling.

[Anonymous No.10034382]

>>10033912
>It's extremely easy to read and easy to pay attention to. I'd say that makes something well written.
It's not without some level of skill. I don't think she's Stephenie Meyer tier but if ease of reading is your thing you can find a thousand far better writers.

[Anonymous No.10034437]

>>10025176
How exactly do you practice? Why do you think one year is a sufficient period of time to be non shit? Are you even sure it's that shit?

>>10025180
Seeing how shitty your earlier efforts were for example, and understanding why they were shit.

>>10025177
It's a mix of both, and actually writing something down is much more important. Some faggot who read 10 books and wrote 1000 pages is very likely a much better writer than someone who read thousands books but just beginning to write their first page.

[Anonymous No.10034449]

>>10027050
To be fair, no kind of writing alone is good enough for it. It's always a gamble. Just thinking about a "real job" shows that one isn't willing to risk their future on their passion ... which is pretty lame and a shitty attitude, showing that they shouldn't bother in the first place.

[Anonymous No.10034472]

SHOW
IT
TO
OTHER
PEOPLE

[Anonymous No.10034478]

>>10034449
>JUST DUMP ALL YOUR MONEY IN THIS FURNACE ANON, THERE'S A ONE IN ONE MILLION CHANCE THAT IT WILL ALL TURN INTO DIAMONDS.
"Follow your passion" is fucking retarded advice.

Hobbies are for leisure time.

[Anonymous No.10034499]

>>10034382
>Stephenie Meyer
Um not exactly appealing to me.. But honestly I do prefer ease of reading usually although I have enjoyed books that were stylish as well, although one book I cant stand is Fahrenheit 451 because its poetic style. Although I really did like the beginning.

Anyway desu with regards to my reading habits I usually stick to non fiction and about stuff which I have autistic obsessions about like fighter planes. Although this thread was about fiction and how to git gud at writing it, I guess my own interest really is in non fiction writing. Non fiction writing however does benefit from techniques which makes it more enjoyable to read, but my personal preference is for very clear and easy to read text which my eyes can quickly scan over.

[Anonymous No.10034500]

>>10034478
Where did you get the idea that I would advise it to anyone? Truly following it will indeed most likely worsen your monetary situation and even your wellbeing, and will very, very, very unlikely end up commercially successful. Hell, no matter how hard you try, the result might still suck dick.

Just if you truly care about your art, mundanities like that don't matter. Most people don't care enough nor shouldn't. Though they shouldn't be surprised that they never make it either.

[Anonymous No.10034512]

>>10032539
Meh. Honestly I wouldn't mind just being a decent writer and I feel like a writing good teacher should write a lot and understand technical stuff even if theyre not the most artistic writer in the universe.

[Anonymous No.10034527]

>>10034500
Or just churn out a bunch of YA hackery, and get some dosh while you type your masterpiece that only comes to you in brief, inspired bits...

I think those erotic stories jobs pay like a few hundred dollars per 30k words..

[Anonymous No.10034545]

>>10034527
It's pretty tricky to make money from YA if you don't take it seriously enough to mostly disregard your other work. There is tons of competition and the majority of the target audience doesn't pay attention to most stuff that isn't under a major publisher.

Now targeted erotic stories, that shit is indeed a gold mine if you find your niche. Though before you get there, even flipping burgers is a better choice to earn money.

[Anonymous No.10034550]

>>10034478
>NO ONE SHOULD TRY AT ANYTHING AND JUST GET THE FIRST ENTRY LEVEL JOB THEY CAN AND STICK WITH
Shit anon if youre lucky you might even make it to assistant manager.

[Anonymous No.10034589]

>>10034545
>>10034545
>even flipping burgers is a better choice to earn money.
Impossibru, but really it depends on how much you hate being told what to do. I'm willing to bet you could write an algorithm which writes erotic novels.

https://www.wired.com/2017/02/robots-wrote-this-story/

I think the most reasonable answer though is that if youre determined not to work a regular job at least don't put all your eggs in one basket because even something like web development could make you a more successful writer by giving you opportunities to market yourself.

One idea I had was like an interactive novel with the aesthetics of this site:
>http://tryruby.org/levels/1/challenges/2

>the target audience doesn't pay attention to most stuff that isn't under a major publisher.
But we have the internet at our fingertips on a website that connects us with thousands of people around the world, among other websites like reddit, and even facebook. I know a lot of YA stuff is sold in book stores but whichever genre you feel like writing there IS a way you could successfully market yourself on the internet. Of course though some genres (politics) might be easier than others and you will inevitably have to give away at least some of your work away for free, but there is always sites like patreon and youtube which make whoring yourself out easier than ever..

And I wouldn't scoff at chump change. A few thousand or even a couple hundred may allow a person to not work, especially if you play speculative markets like cryptocurrency. And speaking of crypto currency, there are tons of articles on "steemit" about crypto which make money. Have any of you guys tried steemit? It's basically reddit but upvotes can make you bitcoin, or more precisely STEEM.

>https://steemit.com/

[Anonymous No.10034844]

>>10034589
Well, I don't know about other writers but for me any kind of work I don't want to do is a more unrealistic option than just dying in the gutters. Having the luxury of living in the first world, I can avoid the romantic starving artist fantasy of hunting for rats either way.

I know it sounds extra entitled and juvenile and selfish but I really tried, worked tons of jobs already, from collecting garbage in a hospital to pulling silly overtime being a location manager for a fortune 500 company. Did some writing for money too; Scripts, articles, and more abstract stuff like transcriptions, translations, documentations, homework and job applications, the latter being paid on pro bono-ish basis because deep down I am not a horrible person.

After couple months of drone mode everything gets too draining and depressing, as annoying the stress of poverty is, it's easier to handle than fantasising of ways to end your life every day because you're forced to invest your time to do what someone else wants, and having money to throw around wasn't enough to balance it out. Though shit, it sure was fun too. Writing stuff I didn't want to write for money was more painful than regular jobs though. It's much harder to half ass since ... you gotta respect the craft, maaan, but if you take it too seriously, it bleeds into your passion. I am pretty impressed when people can separate that stuff.

Pretty solid suggestions either way, specially a little web dev knowledge is a very good idea if one doesn't want to go with traditional publishing and combining it with stuff like the ruby "game" sounds like a solid strategy to get the reader more invested. Something retardproof like Swift allows one to go dick first with simple apps. Like, an interactive novel app.

Did some messing around with crypto mostly out of curiosity back in the day when bitcoin was worth 120 bucks, and donated it all. Almost kinda a bit regret it, would've have 10-12k now. Bough some Ether when it was $216, and will wait with that shit. Never heard of steemit though. Skimming through wiki and their website, it seems like an interesting idea for sure, just pretty undercooked with a scam-ish feel about it. Also doesn't it invite popularity circle jerk? Writing articles about the orange retard and iPhone X alone will probably do.

[Anonymous No.10035014]

>>10026780
>Kurt Cobain

[Anonymous No.10035041]

>>10025176
In some cases, OP, you're your own worst critic. Sounds like that's the case for you. Get some feedback from people and if they consistently tell you that your shit is shit, then it's shit. If instead you mostly get 3-5 star reviews, then you're somewhere around average or pretty good. Or maybe you're secretly the next great fiction writer, I don't fucking know. Try posting some of your latest stuff.

[Anonymous No.10036375]

>>10035014

You're gonna have to explain this meme to me

[Anonymous No.10036400]

>>10036375

[Anonymous No.10036404]

>>10034844
>it seems like an interesting idea for sure, just pretty undercooked with a scam-ish feel about it
Anytime money is involved there will be possibility for scams. If you avoid this so much you are destined to be broke.

>Also doesn't it invite popularity circle jerk?
Yeah but if you get paid then it's arguably worth it. Helpful guides and those kinds of things will make money. Idk about politics but there are some Trump supporting people on the platform, and before you blame them realize that if he is impeached there will be a power vacuum ripe for an authoritarian to seize.

One of the most popularly searched topics on the site though is crypto currency for obvious reasons and people who understand the market and technology could bank on that, which is something I need to get around to doing but I am busy with school. There is also a thriving beer shilling community. I think that local brewers will tip you to advertise their beer, which could be worse desu.

Anyway I dont believe all your passions revolve around fiction writing, but even if they did why not *try* marketing short stories on steemit? And if you have *any* non fiction passions whatsoever why not try to capitalize on it?

[Anonymous No.10036785]

>>10032543
>writing podcasts
Would you happen to have any good examples?

[Anonymous No.10037100]

>>10036785
Writing Excuses is fun. They've already talked about a bunch of things and newer podcasts can be more abstract (and sometimes filled with SJW jumble), but they have some very solid episodes too. The Odyssey podcast is good too. It's published writers who come talk about an aspect of the craft. Both are geared to genre fictions, but the techniques can be applied to anything.

[Anonymous No.10037209]

>>10035041
Kafka thought all his work was shit, mostly didn't try to publish and asked his friend to burn it all upon his death. Writers aren't always the best judges of their work.

If you're just starting out (one year is starting out) it's entirely possible that your stuff isn't that good yet. But it wouldn't hurt to get a second opinion. I'm not sure I would suggest posting stuff here as some anons would destroy anything just because it's easy to do, but having it read by people you trust, sending stuff to writing contests or sending stuff for publication could give you a better idea where you stand and if you're improving.

[Anonymous No.10038595]

>>10034550
Nice strawman

[Anonymous No.10038597]

>>10034500
>if you truly care about your art, not making enough money to survive shouldn't matter

[Anonymous No.10038845]

>>10037209
In my case (not OP) I'm in my 2nd year of writing 'professionally' (meaning for money) but I've been writing as a hobby for literally over half my life. Still, I've learned a lot in a short amount of time during my 1st year, my writing has undoubtedly improved but you're right, 1 year is still starting out, and I'm certain much will be changing as the years tick by. Have to be careful with getting feedback from people you trust though, because they might be biased and might just read it with rose-coloured glasses. You're right, people here can most certainly shit on your work from a great hight just to be a shit-head, but some people can actually give decent feedback as well.

Anyhow, yup, we're pretty much on the same page by the sounds of it. I look forward to continuing my writing and recently got into ghostwriting as well. Nice bit of money in that!

[Anonymous No.10038871]

>>10038595
>calls something a strawman
>not really a straw man
That's a nice strawman you've built yourself anon.

[Anonymous No.10038874]

Anyone think that there would be a way to market erotic literature featuring popular right wing celebs?

[Anonymous No.10039090]

>>10038874

>Hot Erotic Literature featuring your favorite Right Wing Celebs

Wow

Was that so fucking hard?

[Anonymous No.10039253]

>>10039090
B-but anon how do i get people to actually pay for it?

[Anonymous No.10039497]

>>10038871
>say someone has made an argument they clearly haven't made
>not really a not really a straw man
Nice strawman man

[Anonymous No.10039992]

>>10038874
The marking sounds like a tricky part. Right wingers act like they are afraid of sex and some are, so you gotta get over the hurdle first.

[Anonymous No.10040270]

>>10025176
>experiencing tremendous anguish from your own autism
this is actually how you become a better writer

[Anonymous No.10040353]

>>10039992
Market it to center-left (progressives) and make it silly, throwing in jokes like "that's it, baby, suck daddy's covfefe."

Billing it as parody is also probably the only way you'll get away with using real people without their permission anyway.

[Anonymous No.10040364]

holy fpbp

[Anonymous No.10040798]

>>10040353
Maybe some fem-dom scenes too? Right libertarians sound like a potential market as well, just add guns. There is tons of /k/ porn on Amazon already, surely there is a market for a more literal approach.

[Anonymous No.10040815]

>>10040353
Progressives are far-left, basically the alt-left SJWs, BLM, and Antifa fascists who try to attack and/or silence any political opposition. Classical Liberals are basically center-left, but the extreme-left are so left that Classical Liberals are practically center-right at this point. The political spectrum is completely out of whack because of the violent, aggressive, and racist left with their identity politics.

[Anonymous No.10040871]

>>10033777
>>10025177
/thread

[Anonymous No.10040908]

>>10040815
>extreme-left
Can vary from socialists and commies to left libertarians. Progressives vary a lot too, and tend not to get along. The reactionary ones with too much focus on identity politics might be left socially but tend to be authoritarian left on other issues, and other left authoritarians like socialists tend to hate them even more due not prioritizing class. It's a clusterfuck indeed.

[Anonymous No.10041030]

>>10040908
das true mang

>>10040815
>Classical Liberals
Some people consider libertarians classical liberals and theyre correct in some respects. Liberal, as unbelievable as it sounds, actually was derived from the word liberty originally. Then it got infected by authoritarian collectivists, partially from the kgb, and a mind virus started to spread which states the individual may threaten other's liberty and inequality is proof.

>Here is a kgb agent talking about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX3EZCVj2XA

The easiest way to strive for equality is to beat down the brightest individuals. Another mind virus is that welfare has to be the result of violent taxation and would never work on a voluntary basis, well yeah if that's your attitude it wont work (self-fulfilling prohecy.)

>>10039992
>>10040353
My idea is to literally spam some samples on /pol and reddit and other places to get readers interested. I could only see them paying for it as a joke but it might just be fun anyways.

But my question really is more about who the hell pays for erotic literature in the first place? People actually willing to pay for the stuff must pretty "out there," and ingested so much of it already that theyre willing to pay for more. Is it females actually that are more into this kind of thing?

Or is it gay people mostly? I mean it must be a very small audience who actually prefer reading to wathcing porn...

[Anonymous No.10041078]

>>10039497
nice strawman strawman

[Anonymous No.10041101]

>>10041030
>muh charity could replace welfare
>t. Naive pleb

[Anonymous No.10041185]

>>10041030
Thanks for the video, fascinating stuff. He could see it all developing decades ago, though I don't think America was or is the ONLY place with freedom. The place with the MOST freedom, overall though not in all aspects, yes. Not the ONLY place for freedom though, and in some other nations that are small ways in which others are more free. For instance in Canada we still import firearms and ammo from China and Russia while America does not, so we get Chinese and American surplus and milsurp ammo for super cheap which also includes QBZ-97 which is a fancy Chinese-designed bullpup that, to my knowledge, isn't even available to the American public because it's so recent. It's a 5.56 chambered QBZ-95 which is chambered in 5.8x42 if memory serves.

I guess you could call me a /k/lit/.

>>10040908
I do hold some Libertarian views, particularly like Ben Shapiro's view on drugs. He doesn't care who does what as long as it doesn't bother anyone else, though if there's drugs out there that inherently make people more violent like apparently PCP and I also hear bath salts can make you extremely violent, then those I can understand retaining prohibition, but if people can consume their drugs without becoming a problem then let them do as they like. Alcohol is a huge problem when in the hands of some people but we still sell it all over western society. Anyways, I'm primarily right-wing, and I'm continuing to learn the differences between 'standard' or 'regular' Conservatives and the Alt-Right. The Alt-Right turns out to be an extremely far-right group that is, in a way, white supremacists however they seem to base their views on facts, so it's hard to refute it.

[Anonymous No.10041195]

>>10041101
If welfare was restricted to ONLY those who couldn't reasonably work normal jobs, then it wouldn't be a problem. The key is getting people to work, to not be lazy. Though sadly there's also issues with the economy and lack of jobs so welfare still has a necessity but the major problem is when it's abused by people who just don't need it. There's even literally retarded people out there doing their best to work, make a living, and pay taxes, so able-bodied people leeching off of welfare when there's plenty of jobs available, it's nonsense.

[Anonymous No.10041255]

>>10041195
>The key is getting people to work
Why? Automation will kill most jobs and would do it sooner if people wouldn't push the WERK IS GREAT bullshit.

Getting people into work who don't really love their job (as most) is negative for the productivity.

>major problem is when it's abused by people who just don't need it.
How is it a major problem? The shit works basically like a subsidy for the industries poor people support. They can't afford to safe up and most ends up in Walmart or for rent. Not wasting money on muh army (which is pretty much welfare for people who pretend to work) and dealing with tax evasion would safe much, much, MUCH more money.

[Anonymous No.10041293]

>>10041185
>however the [Alt-right] seem to base their view on facts

[Anonymous No.10041298]

>>10041195
Peak capitalism is getting those who couldn't even reasonably work normal jobs to work

[Anonymous No.10041328]

>>10041255
>people don't really love their job
True in the majority of cases, but until food-preparation is automated, people need to flip burgers. It will provide an income you can live off of if you're not a moron. In an ideal world though, ALL work would be COMPLETELY automated and everyone could literally do whatever they liked. It's the only situation I can think of in which Communism/Socialism has an actual chance. Divide wealth evenly, since in the end, nobody really has to work. Writers can write, people who are into science can become scientists, people who like to teach can teach shit (or just automate it), and ALL burger-flipping is done autonomously unless some odd ducks just want to see what it was like to work in a field that was so mocked for so long.

>Welfare state not a major problem
People on welfare are leeches. That's the long and the short of it. SOME taxes are paid via spending money, but more tax money would be generated by working instead of being a leech. Also, money not being given to someone who isn't working can go somewhere that it would do some good.

>Army
Fighting terrorists in the Middle East means fewer terrorist attacks in the west, but clearly a lot of those violent Muslims still get through. Also, if the Army is just where people pretend to work, why don't you join if it's so easy?

>Tax evasion
This is a major problem too, just like the welfare state which also encourages families to break up as does no-fault divorce and the bias for women in divorce court. Similarly, illegal immigration is a problem too. Thankfully, President Trump is looking to fix a lot of, if not all, of these problems. If Hillary won, really, all these problems would likely have escalated further. She WANTS people on welfare, because people receiving help from the Government are FAR more likely to vote Liberal, and thus it's more votes for her side.

[Anonymous No.10041330]

>>10041298
We'll get there with shit like widespread surrogacy.
What a glorious future it will be when all the proletariat youg women will work as surrogate mothers for the capitalist class, and the rest will work in call-centers to sell shit to people who do have money.

[Anonymous No.10041344]

>>10041328
>the welfare state which also encourages families to break up

[Anonymous No.10041348]

>>10041293
Feel free to bring up some objections, but from what I can tell they're right in that black people cause more crime than whites, and black people have, on average, lower IQ than whites and IQ is a major determining factor in judging someone's long-term success. Though even the Alt-Right will admit that the Asians have an even higher average IQ than whites which is why in America any 'privilege' that white people have pales in comparison to Asian 'privilege'. They're smarter, they make more money than white Americans, they don't have as many single-parent households which also aids in improving subsequent generations, and so on and so forth, so really it's almost incorrect to call the Alt-Right 'White Supremacists', but 'White Nationalists' sounds about right. It's absolutely valid to be proud to be white, we have an amazing history and an even more amazing present; look at all the cool shit we're surrounded by in the west that white people have invented! We're also scarily good at war, I mean seriously, the bulk of WWI and WWII was in Europe and we DOMINATED! Also, almost anywhere that colonialism happens, things improve. Life expectancy increases, quality of life increases availability of technology increases, and so on and so forth. I hear apartheid was horrible for South Africa but as soon as things were handed over to Nelson Mandela things went to SHIT and FAST!

>>10041298
Define 'peak capitalism'. I admit, I've never heard of the term.

[Anonymous No.10041372]

>>10041348
I don't necessarily deny the factual observations, it's the shit attempts at scientific interpretations and understanding, often no attempt, that is the problem, because when something supports their ideology they run away with it and try and use it to justify theit potential policies

>we wuz inventors and warriors and beneficial colonisers and shiiiiiieeeeeet
Whatever you say champ, keep being proud for things you haven't done

[Anonymous No.10041397]

>>10041328
>but until food-preparation is automated
It can, specially when we talk about fast food but what initiative is there if you can underpay some human drones and do it cheaper?

>It will provide an income you can live off of if you're not a moron.
Depends on location and whether kids are involved or not. And of course the actual wage in question.

>ALL work would be COMPLETELY automated and everyone could literally do whatever they liked.
Not at all. Take away the pressure of "work or die" with basic income and people will see work as a way to pass their time, since most would kill themselves with too much freetime. I know quite a few people who could've retired or simply spend a tiny bit less but they prefer to work, even though they don't even enjoy it, since they enjoy too much free time even less.

>Divide wealth evenly
Now that shit is utopic. Some people do offer society way more than others. Just it doesn't mean we should stick the less able ones into quasi slavery.

>unless some odd ducks just want to see what it was like to work in a field that was so mocked for so long.
Wouldn't be surprised if that becomes a thing too tbqh.

>People on welfare are leeches.
It's bit short sighted, unless they actively made the choice, they simply aren't. And if someone actively makes the choice, it's unlikely they have the capacity to offer much as a worker. It'd be the same situation you have with retards. Walmart abusing the situation and paying too low wages, forcing the state to help poorfags is much worse for the economy and the budget.

>more tax money would be generated by working instead of being a leech
There isn't too much tax to gain from poorfags.

>Fighting terrorists in the Middle East means fewer terrorist attacks in the west
Yet there were fewer before. Weird. Besides, it's not like the majority abroad.

>why don't you join if it's so easy
My situation is easy enough as someone who is self-employed already. Why would I want some college dropout to order me around for less? Besides, I am not a Burger.

[Anonymous No.10041425]

>>10041348
>white
>we
How does it even make sense? White people spend majority of history killing each other. The claim that we're supposed to be good at war doesn't make too much sense given how crackers were on both sides. Whites are not an unified group, and neither are niggers or asians.

[Anonymous No.10041517]

>>10040364
>>10040871

see >>10025180

[Anonymous No.10041521]

>>10041397
>Automation
When talking about fast food, the income is coming $5 and $10 at a time, not like the automobile industry where they're making tens of thousands of dollars regularly. Not only that but look at the sheer number of fast food restaurants out there. When the tech becomes affordable enough, then they'll look into it, because if they can get burgers made for free and the automation doesn't cost too much then they can make the money back on said automation eventually. If the automation doesn't take too much money on upkeep and doesn't cause any health concerns then conceivably the prices can go down because you're not paying the wages of several people to work the fries/chicken/burgers/tills/etc.

>whether kids are involved
That goes along with being a moron or not. Becoming a single parent by choice when there's no physical/sexual abuse nor threats of harm is a moronic thing to do economically and also for the future of the kid. Welfare state, no-fault divorce, and bias-for-females in divorce court (especially for child support/alimony) actively encourage women to become single moms which is in the best long-term interest of nobody but Liberal leaders who stand to gain more votes.

>see work as a way to pass their time
Some people are industrious and will desire productivity in their lives, many people do not. Many would be happy to spend all their time watching TV series, movies, playing videogames, or doing their recreational drug of choice until the end of time.

>Divide wealth evenly
Fair point; the industrious should always receive more than the lazy. To be fair I don't support Socialism/Communism at all but this fully-automated world is the only case where I think it could POSSIBLY work, but I didn't say it SHOULD.

>People on welfare are leeches.
I grew up poor, parents on welfare, and I myself have been on welfare before. I stand by what I say and in all honesty disregarded those lines of your comment. Being on welfare takes more than it gives. Working and paying taxes gives more than it takes (unless there's Socialized healthcare and you're a very unhealthy person)

>More tax by working than being a leech
The fact remains, and there's A LOT of poorfags out there. Numbers add up. More people working is beneficial for the economy and Government. What's good for the economy and Government (provided the Government isn't corrupt) is good for the people. Working>welfare. Period. Doesn't matter if it's only a little, it's still a fact.

>Majority abroad
Majority of Muslims (or at least a MASSIVE minority) still believe the Quran is the word of God and wants Sharia, which means they believe women are beneath men, non-Muslims are second-class citizens to Muslims, and anyone who refuses to fight in the name of Allah should be "punished with a painful punishment" not to mention apostates should be put to death (which is actual law in some Muslim-majority nations, while in many others it's 'only' punishable by jail time).

[Anonymous No.10041559]

>>10041397
>Getting orders from College dropout
I don't know what country you're from, but it helps big-time to become an Officer if you've gone to College, might even be a prerequisite.

>Not a burger
Me too.

>>10041425
>White people spend majority of history killing each other.
You mean like how Natives did the same in the Americas, Africans did the same in Africa, Middles Easterners did the same in the Middle East (ESPECIALLY after Prophet Muhammad), and Asians did in Asia? Except we consistently did it better. From line formation with bayoneted muskets and cannons in the 18th century to constant advancement of muskets into muzzle loaded rifles into single-shot rifles into repeating bolt-action rifles in the 19th century to continued advancements in the 20th century with aircraft, tanks, machine guns, submachine guns, semi-auto rifles, battle rifles, assault rifles, rifles capable of reaching over 2km, etc.

Yes, whites do war the best. We war good. Gooder than the rest. How else do you think European countries managed to take over most of North America? All the Natives REALLY have now is Mexico, and it's kinda shitty over there from my perspective. Similarly when whites left colonized nations in Africa alone, they also went to shit, Rhodesia being a prime example. Then, WWII; Japan tried to play with the big boys, and how did that go? Russians to the north, Aussies to the south, USA/Britain/Canada coming, however in a move that I still find questionable Truman just decided to nuke them. Either way, yeah, "Japanese Self-Defence Force" and anime/hentai came out of it. They got hit pretty fucking hard.

So yes, I take pride in white history, particularly white Military history, even if we more efficiently killed huge numbers of each other in the past than any other race. Further proof that we're so damn good at war.

[Anonymous No.10041627]

>>10041521
>When the tech becomes affordable enough
It's already affordable, it's simple even cheaper to pay people shitty wages, especially given the government subsidies, making it viable to pay lower than living wages. There is no initiative to change the shit, unless there is minimum wage or some support for companies who go automatic.

> Becoming a single parent by choice
Single parents are another thing altogether. Even if people stay together, it's a pain to raise a little fucker if the parents got crappy jobs.

>Many would be happy to spend all their time watching TV series, movies, playing videogames
Where do you get the idea? 4chains isn't representative of the general population. Most people in first world countries don't even pirate shit, so they would still need an extra income for that shit. People in real first world countries have this option either way, but the majority pick shitty jobs. Social pressure is a factor too of course, but it goes beyond being unemployed being stigmatized. Some loser wasting their entire life consuming media is unlikely to attract any maters either, so it's only an option for the extremists who want to die alone.

Drugs aren't cheap either, so one more reason to work.

>Being on welfare takes more than it gives.
Oh definitely, just the actual money that really disappears and doesn't get right back into industry is minimal. I recall studies showing that food-stamps actually contribute to the economy too.
https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program-snap/economic-linkages/

>Working and paying taxes gives more than it takes
Depends on the wages. As an oversimplified example, say you pay $1h and hour, the person will never be able to earn enough to get of government support nor pay in shit, while supporting the person will cost almost as much as supporting someone purely on welfare, PLUS it lower the overall economic input for the future since it'd discourage the company to innovate, PLUS the company he's working for is basically getting paid by the state, PLUS the person is wasting away the potential productivity on almost nothing, PLUS the stress of work and work itself increases chance for injuries and sickness, PLUS the person is taking away resources (soup kitchens for example) meant for real unemployed despite being employed. Non living wages are just subsidies for certain industries and are a net negative.

>Muslims
Just like Christfags, they can't really agree on the definition of Quran, as is easy observable by the completely different conditions in the different countries. Besides, it's not like most are overly feverish believers in the first place. Hating on women or faggots is common in pretty much every major religion, just they tend to be limited by the state more.

[Anonymous No.10041676]

>>10041627
>It's already affordable
I doubt it. Sure, there's automated creation of vehicles, this is well known, but as I mentioned we're talking about $5-10 transactions instead of tens of thousands of dollars. There's also the issue of cleanliness because Maple Leaf foods has already killed several people by accident due to an unclean blade. I don't believe the technology is affordable enough to make the money back on such cheap transactions not to mention to outfit the hundreds of thousands if not MILLIONS of fast food restaurants out there, and on top of all that I don't think it's even tested. I'd love to hear of a restaurant presently in service in which the food is in no way handled by a worker once in the restaurant itself.

>parents got crappy jobs
It still goes in with not being a moron, after all you shouldn't have kids if you're still only working minimum wage, but two people working full-time minimum wage in an affordable household or apartment can easily survive if they're not morons, though again, having kids without decent income suggests they are morons. Being uncareful counts as being a moron.

>The other stuff besides the Muslim issue
It feels like you're arguing for the sake of arguing at this point

>Muslim issue
Talk about Christianity all you want (y'know, because you can, without having your life put in real physical danger) but it isn't Christians causing the VAST majority of terrorist attacks or the VAST majority of conflicts right now. Islam is a barbaric religion that will not allow a 'New Testament' of sorts, which is what it needs. A 'New Testament' brought on by a hippie Muslim just like hippie Christ brought along the 'New Testament' for Christianity which in some ways flies in the face of the Old Testament.

>Old Testament
Leviticus Chapter 20 in general summed up: "You can put various people to death for various reasons, including stoning to death"

>Jesus with New Testament
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

>Modern Christians
Well so much for that, turns out we can alter our perception of our religious texts just as Jesus did to reflect our times. (By the way, I'm still looking for homophobic stuff in the New Testament, and would love for anyone to point some out to me. Not some sort of challenge saying "there's none there", but legit, I don't know the whole book yet, so if anyone has anti-gay stuff from the New Testament I'd love it to be pointed out to me)

>Modern Muslims
"SHE GOT RAPED BY SOMEONE WHO ISN'T HER HUSBAND (which in that case would be legal but as stated it's not her husband so it's ILLEGAL)! THAT'S ADULTERY! STONE HER TO DEATH!

>Modern Jesus-like 'Prophet' Muhammad (one of the hundreds of thousands if not millions of Muslims out there)
"Wait, wait, wait! Stop! Dudes! She got RAPED! That's AWFUL! We should NOT put her to death though!

>Modern Muslims
"You speak out against Allah, you are an apostate, KILL HIM! ALLAHU ACKBAR!"

>Modern Jesus-like Muhammad
Dead.

[Anonymous No.10041729]

>>10041676
>we're talking about $5-10 transactions
That are only so low because the state is paying the rest. Besides, it's not like you have to go there right away. Getting rid of most cashiers around most stores is trivial, would kill millions of jobs and be a net benefit for society.

>It still goes in with not being a moron
To a point, sure but that's how people are. Some are morons. Many are morons because our educational system wasn't sufficient enough to get more out of them. In the end we're left with poor people, and their kid that is likely to go the same road if nothing is done. Letting them suffer because they aren't the brightest is pretty inhumane given the amount of resources.

>It feels like you're arguing for the sake of arguing at this point
Procrastination is a bitch indeed.

>Muslims
>y'know, because you can, without having your life put in real physical danger
Thanks to secularism. And yeah, most Muslim countries aren't too good at that.

Your examples for modern muslims are bullshit though, like sure, they would apply to some group or entire countries but there are tons of variations. As are with Christians, when they have power like in Eastern European countries, they do tend to shit on minorities and affect their lives too. Look at the differences in Turkey (even after Erdogan) compared to Indonesia compared to wahhabi shithole like Saudi Arabia, which is again noticeable different with a developing shia country like Iran. Hell, Syria was actually pretty liberal before the war.

>so if anyone has anti-gay stuff from the New Testament
There is an entire wiki page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_New_Testament.. With the new pope, at least the catholics are definitely moving forward noticeably now to be fair.

[Anonymous No.10042031]

I still feel like I'm not a terribly good writer, but almost everyone who reads the fiction I write tells me I'm really good.

I keep thinking the worst of myself but it seems I'm actually a pretty solid writer. Which I hope I am because I've been practicing for years.

[Anonymous No.10042106]

>>10042031
>I keep thinking the worst of myself but it seems I'm actually a pretty solid writer.

So you don't actually think the worst of yourself?

[Anonymous No.10042415]

>>10042106
Maybe not literally the worst but it often surprises me how much people enjoy what I write. I never seem to think it's nearly as good as what a lot of readers tell me it is.

[Anonymous No.10042627]

>>10025176
My suggestion is to find at least one person whose opinion you respect, and arranger for them to critique your work every now and then. The key is not just to have your work criticized, but to have it criticized from the same source, so you can observe how one person's unbiased view of your work changes over time.

[Anonymous No.10043053]

It's rare that I cry at something written. If what I write makes me cry, then I consider it good.

[Anonymous No.10043895]

>>10043053

Do you have some form of short-term amnesia where you can forget what you wrote before you read it?

[Anonymous No.10043915]

>>10033951
>>10033912
>>10034499
This guy is a master troll.

[Anonymous No.10043922]

>>10036375
I'm worst at what
Iiii do best
And for this gift
I feeel blessed

[Anonymous No.10044778]

>>10043922

Wow, what a emo