>Complains about the decline of culture, the family, tradition, morals and hard work >Supports Capitalism, the very thing that caused this all to happen Hmm, what did (((Jordan B. Peterson))) mean by this?

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Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:20:58 2017 No.10019933 [Reply] [Original]

>Complains about the decline of culture, the family, tradition, morals and hard work
>Supports Capitalism, the very thing that caused this all to happen

Hmm, what did (((Jordan B. Peterson))) mean by this?

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:27:43 2017 No.10019960
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>tfw right-wing on social issues
>tfw I realize that capitalism to a large extent destroyed traditional morality
>tfw too much of an eternal anglo individualist to turn against capitalism

help

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:29:00 2017 No.10019964 >>10019960 You're going to have to get off the fence on capitalism. If you decide to make the right choice the NazBol gang is waiting for you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:30:58 2017 No.10019966 >>10019933 Capitalism didn't cause that to happen, reliance on government welfare caused that to happen. if, for instance, you subsidize single mothers, you will get more single mothers.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:31:39 2017 No.10019970 >>10019966 >He doesn't know government welfare is an inevitable consequence of capitalism

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:33:08 2017 No.10019972 >>10019964 OP here. I vehemently disagree, National Bolshevism is not the answer to Capitalism. Rather, the complete destruction of technological progression.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:34:01 2017 No.10019974 >>10019972 Okay. What do you understand NazBol to be?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:34:17 2017 No.10019975 capitalism will never die but humanity will

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:36:47 2017 No.10019982

>>10019966
Capitalism forces the breakdown of the family by forcing relatives to break apart due to financial difficulties, job requirements, commute requirements, alienation etc.

Capitalism destroys tradition by advancing technological progression which in itself brings about social change.

Capitalism destroys culture via commodification.

Capitalism destroys morals by neutralising it under the banner of the market and justifying actions on the basis of their voluntary nature and the legal parameters which surround such actions whilst creating a system in which individuals who determine such legal parameters are themselves subject to enticement through lobbying etc.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:40:12 2017 No.10019996 >>10019960 this idea of personal liberty and individualism existed before Capitalism and Liberalism its entirely possible to reject both and still respect liberty

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:49:33 2017 No.10020030 >>10019960 It is funny to think that communism and fascism were both reactions against democracy/capitalism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:51:09 2017 No.10020037 "this causes that" sociological theories are fucking retarded.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:52:14 2017 No.10020040 >>10020037 DUDE, I DON'T ACT AS THOUGH THERE ARE CAUSALITIES IN MY DAILY LIFE, LMAO

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:52:16 2017 No.10020041 File: 28 KB, 500x500, multi layer cia Jewish down syndrom pepe.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10020030 It is also funny that you think that democracy equals capitalism, you fool.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:52:40 2017 No.10020042 >>10020037 >this doesn't cause that >Everything is a spontaneous isolated event

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:55:04 2017 No.10020053 >>10019933 You're mixing capitalism with democracy. It's not the same thing. You ether have capitalism or you have socialism, and the latter failed every single time it was attempted, so you're out of choices really.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:55:28 2017 No.10020054 >>10020053 >You ether have capitalism or you have socialism Shut up, moron.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:56:12 2017 No.10020056 File: 152 KB, 438x420, 1376076561779.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10020053 >You either have capitalism or you have socialism >and the latter failed every single time it was attempted, so you're out of choices really.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:57:11 2017 No.10020065 >>10020040 >>10020042 >sociological theories are the same as individualised daily life. You are fucking retards.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 20:58:38 2017 No.10020074 File: 1.54 MB, 480x264, thinking hard.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10020065 >Causality isn't a thing when I don't want it to be

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:01:33 2017 No.10020081 >>10020074 Linear causality is baby-tier.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:02:45 2017 No.10020087 >>10020053 I look at a lot of stupid shit on 4chan all the time, but this post is an unusually stupid one. So have a (You).

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:05:01 2017 No.10020091 >>10020053 >what are mixed economies

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:07:44 2017 No.10020099

>>10019982
You are aware that all the greatest ages in human history were achieved under total and free capitalism?

Greek golden age; independent city states, free trade, ritualised warfare
Italian renaissance; city states, free trade, ritualised warfare
German renaissance; highly independent states, free trade, empiric control over warfare

Capitalism is fine as it is, it being curbed by laws, social policies, and copyright and patent schemes, is the problem.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:09:20 2017 No.10020104 File: 66 KB, 680x594, 138696892136.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10020099 >This post

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:12:49 2017 No.10020112 File: 1.01 MB, 1280x1163, Rothbard on Children.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10020099 t. Child Sex Slave Salesman

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:13:35 2017 No.10020114

>>10020099
DUDE, ALL OF THESE COMPLETELY DIFFERING SYSTEMS WERE CAPITALIST, LIKE, ALLOW ME TO COMPARE CITY STATES WHERE CITIZENS AND SLAVES EXISTED WITH MERCANTILISM AND MONARCHICAL SYSTEMS AND ARGUE THAT THEY WERE ALL FREE TRADE AND USED THE SAME MONETARY SYSTEMS LMAO

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:21:19 2017 No.10020143
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>>10019933
>Anti-authoritarian
>Anti-religious
>Classical Liberal
>Capitalism with small restrictions
>Complains about the destruction of family,tradition and unity
Hypocrite

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:24:20 2017 No.10020155

>>10020056
>>10020091
>>10020087
>>10020091

No wonder you're all broke. Plain economics are too much for you.

Mixed economies in use today are all totally and completely capitalistic by nature, they're just systems that embraced free trade and disguised it with few social incentives to fool the gullable, to kept communists at bay. They were important in the post ww2 era when communism was dangerously at bay in the post war Europe, with very strong undergrounds in Italy, France and even Britain.

And yes, socialism is dead. China has capitalistic economy, but I see that's again too much for idiots here.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:27:21 2017 No.10020165 >>10020091 Prone to economic stagnation Look at canada's economic history, nigger. They are drowning in oil, land and other valuable resources and are fucking floundering

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:27:24 2017 No.10020166 File: 21 KB, 263x174, Some Economic Systems.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10020155 Moron, there are more economic systems than Capitalism and Socialism which is what you stated.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:28:01 2017 No.10020168 >>10020155 no they're mixed by definition. how can they be "totally and completely capitalistic" if they contain elements of both systems. surely you can't be this retarded

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:31:29 2017 No.10020179 >>10020165 pretty much every western economy is a mixed economy, funny that out of the top 5 highest GDP countries there is only one that isn't mixed.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:33:19 2017 No.10020182 How do I turn against capitalism? Take out a bunch of loans and don't pay? >>10019960

Jeff Mangum Died For Your Sins !rAl8Mz2mp2 Wed Sep 13 21:35:51 2017 No.10020189

>>10019933
>"capitalism destroyed traditionalism"
>most anti-capitalist leftists deride traditional values and institutions as "reactionary" and want to replace them in the name of progress
Someone explain this to me pls

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:38:42 2017 No.10020203

>>10020166
What the fuck are you even posting there? You're not even aware that pretty much every single economic system mentioned there is dead, or theoretical? What you have now is capitalism across the world, Cuba, North Korea, and completely nothing else. And it was the same in history. Merchantilism is capitalistic system. Feudalism aswell. Only one that is fundamentally different is socialism, it's the only one that dispersed the power.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:39:13 2017 No.10020204 >>10020182 Here's what I'm doing. >take out 50k for undergrad degree >50k masters >50k another masters >hit loan limit >do PhD so loan still in deferment >get PhD >kill self >

Jeff Mangum Died For Your Sins !rAl8Mz2mp2 Wed Sep 13 21:42:31 2017 No.10020218

>>10020203
>socialism disperses power
The government apparatus itself holds enormous power in socialist governments. EU officials make tons of money and receive special access to institutions that normies don't get. Soviet apparatchiks often got to sleep with any prole's wife

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:45:00 2017 No.10020230 >>10020203 north korea is a facist state

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:52:32 2017 No.10020259 >>10020030 fascism is not a reaction against capitalism. it's tricking the masses into supporting it. Nazis began as a conservative labor party.

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:52:44 2017 No.10020260

>>10020168
It's a scholarly definition. Pure capitalism is a theory that never existed. And most (and all current and past) mixed systems are only names for practical capitalism. Then you have some theoretical mixed systems that do cross the line, but were not talking about them here.

You guys are seriously taking what's written on wikipedia without a grain of common sense.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:54:01 2017 No.10020264 teen thread

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 21:59:27 2017 No.10020286

>>10020218
It disperses it in theory. What happened is that revolutionary communists found themselves with all the power in their hands not knowing what to do with it, with all the ones that knew economics distrusted, somehow out of the country, or even, surprisingly, dead, so they did what they thought best, and they failed.

Jeff Mangum Died For Your Sins !rAl8Mz2mp2 Wed Sep 13 22:19:27 2017 No.10020359

>>10020286
In a socialist government there has to be a body capable of collecting and distributing wealth, usually by force. How is it possible for power to be dispersed in a system that dependent on a centralized authority?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 22:30:26 2017 No.10020387 >>10019933 We can't keep blaming man's ideas for man's flaws, it is man and man alone that corrupts himself, if men didn't have flaws, the system they create for themselves wouldn't either, capitalistic or socialistic.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 22:33:07 2017 No.10020391 >>10020387 The problems of suffering and inequality are inherent to our nature, and all of nature.

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 22:37:07 2017 No.10020400

since this is supposed to be a board about books and stuff, i'm going to go ahead and recommend 'Seeing Like a State' by Scott and 'The Great Transformation' by Polanyi, for anyone who wants to understand how capitalism is destroying traditional values and ways of life

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:06:06 2017 No.10020493 >>10020387 >Posting a balanced well thought out adult opinion in a Peterson thread Shame on you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:12:47 2017 No.10020507 >>10020391 and we can only figure that with consciousness which is also a product of nature, maybe that's meant to evolve as well to a point were we.re beyond those problems?

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:20:41 2017 No.10020538

>>10020507
Evolution has no goal other than survival and reproduction. Consciousness evolved because it helped human beings achieve those goals, not because we're supposed to get to a place where suffering doesn't exist. What would a lack of suffering even look like? If everything were provided for me at will I'd fry the pleasure center of my brain, and have no motivation to get up in the morning.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:23:17 2017 No.10020551 >>10019960 renounce your individualism and become a full blown commie. keep your social views private

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:23:53 2017 No.10020554 >>10020538 >evolution has no goal other than survival and reproduction Prove it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:27:39 2017 No.10020563 >>10020538 well Jesus, for example, got up in the morning to love others, nothing more. Even if you don't believe in him, life imitates art.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:29:42 2017 No.10020572 >>10020204 Holy shit

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:30:39 2017 No.10020575 >>10020538 >>10020554 Evolution has no goal period. It's just a process we've noticed that occurs in our reality that describes the fact that environmental pressures will influence the genetic makeup of the species sensitive to those pressures.

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:32:03 2017 No.10020579

>>10019933
> hur hur one ideology is the cause of all my problems
> not the fact that any ideology will end up being ruined by human greed, even if a good leader pops up to lead the movement temporarily

This blackpill is the only pill you can ever take and be correct about this issue. The struggle never ends and your gommunist / crapitalist / fascist / whatever memes mean nothing because you're too stupid to understand the real issues.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:32:55 2017 No.10020584 File: 65 KB, 1265x470, peterson.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] fuck peterson

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:33:11 2017 No.10020586 >>10020575 >environmental pressures will influence the genetic makeup of the species sensitive to those pressures. Through the survival and reproduction of those with the genes best suited to that environment. You can call that a goal.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:35:13 2017 No.10020596 >>10020584 Got excited after the first sentence that it was actually going to focus on those biological "holes" in his philosophy, but then it just launched right on in to unflasifiable ad hominim. Like all criticisms of JP on this brain-dead website.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:35:48 2017 No.10020598 >>10019960 Embrace Marxism, reject Liberal identitarianism

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:36:10 2017 No.10020602 >>10020586 No because evolution can lead to species extinction. It can lead to speciation. It can lead to divergence.

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:38:16 2017 No.10020610

>>10020551
Communism is absolutely compatible with individualism and a case can be made that Marx was heavily invested in finding ways to maximize human freedom.

Communism, as in the abolition of private property and commodity production, only limits one's individual self expression insofar as one wishes to dominate or harm other people.

Jeff Mangum Died For Your Sins !rAl8Mz2mp2 Wed Sep 13 23:41:12 2017 No.10020630

>>10020584
>beating him with the "his fans are losers" association bludgeon
>expending this much effort to attack a man you concede has both good and bad ideas
It's all tribal. Peterson's association with right-of-center losers is this person's main problem with his work, not the work itself.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:44:32 2017 No.10020646 _Test:00000000001_The solution to the problem will be found in this discussion.

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:45:12 2017 No.10020650

>>10020596
No kidding. It was like a 180 after the first paragraph.

I think JP is an OK guy, I never participate in these threads and I've seen a grand total of 3 or 4 of his vids (whenever one is trending and I'm bored enough to click it on 4chan). I actually watched the Joe Rogan one this dude is talking about, for about the first 25 minutes I guess.

- All of the stuff it's referencing is from the first 20 minutes or so, so they were just going in to find shit to be annoyed about.

- The Kermit shit is another one I actually watched, oddly enough. I emailed him around that time and told him not to associate too closely with alt righters, who might appropriate him as an icon and give him terrible press. He didn't seem to understand that the people enthusiastically posting Pepe shit on that video were also shitposting ironic Nazis. His inability to differentiate that initial rush from the Reddit people is telling of how little he really cares about "Kekistan" shit.

- The Hitler thing shows they don't understand anything about JP's psychology jargon (which I don't personally like all that much). The point JP consistently makes is that we have drives and personality traits that we can't help except by being aware of them and channeling them properly. Saying Hitler was orderly and also saying "clean your room" is for JP like saying "you know it's interesting that serial killers are often sexual fetishists" and also saying "don't let your fetishes get all pent up through self-loathing or self-denial."

- JP definitely is a self-help guru, and people definitely do seek out figures like him and put too much stock in them. But the same can be said about the things JP rails against, like the literal, ACTUAL cult of pomo SJW shit that goes on at UofT where he teaches, where you are taught to use special speech codes and self-flagellate for the Glorious Ideology (or else). At least JP isn't intentionally forming a death cult like those people are. He's just an autistic Jungian.

This is just some whiny tranny who is mad that the establishment isn't as much of an echo chamber as it was 2 years ago. Fuck trannies.

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:46:02 2017 No.10020655

>>10019933
Capitalism isn't what caused this all to happen. Globalism did.

But yes, Peterson complains a lot. He has a lot of simple but nice things to say, but ultimately he's more or less just an old man who is weary about the future. Every turning point in human history has always been a double edged sword; globalism has its perks, it's moving everything forward in ways not imaginable before, but it has downsides.

Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:47:06 2017 No.10020659

>>10020584
How the fuck does Hitler's orderliness have anything to do with Peterson's insistence on having order in one's life? A single personality trait doesn't make one a generically murderer. The implication the person who wrote this is making is nonsensical.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:47:15 2017 No.10020661 >>10020551 >join the hive and keep your head down faggot

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:50:41 2017 No.10020674 >>10020661 join the CORRECT hive and keep your head down.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:51:39 2017 No.10020680 >>10020674 untermensch

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:52:44 2017 No.10020685 ITT society is on the decline and people are fighting over why that is. take a look in the mirror, you are the decline.

>>	Jeff Mangum Died For Your Sins !2McPUqCAjA Wed Sep 13 23:53:43 2017 No.10020692 >>10020650 Don't bother. There's no epistemological substance to most criticism directed at Peterson. There was a popular left wing subreddit that literally referred to him as a Nazi. It's just tribalism.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:55:27 2017 No.10020695 >>10020584 How was any of that an actual argument? Was it meant to be a satirical representation of your typical illiterate litposter?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:55:46 2017 No.10020697 >>10020551 >become a full blown commie >keep your social views private Like clockwork.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:56:18 2017 No.10020700 >>10020692 >epistemological substance what exactly did you mean by this?

>>	Jeff Mangum Died For Your Sins !2McPUqCAjA Wed Sep 13 23:57:56 2017 No.10020711 >>10020700 I meant nothing. Pay no mind

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 13 23:58:21 2017 No.10020713 >>10020697 ethical hypocrisy is comfy lad

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 00:00:54 2017 No.10020720

>>10020685
depends on which society.

many people have anxiety resulting from economic forces. of which have many complex causes ranging from outright rent-seeking to automation and offshoring.

i'd wager most of today's drama is a manifestation of this economic frustration.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 00:01:43 2017 No.10020724 >>10020584 >he writes books in order to sell them >he makes videos in order to propagate his ideas What a cool insight

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 00:02:21 2017 No.10020727 >>10020697 Advanced pottery even

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 00:10:15 2017 No.10020750 >>10020720 Economic alienation comes from the fact that economic disparities create status distinctions. If you had a system of social bonding that supersceded economic status, like religion, those economic disparities wouldn't be such a problem.

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 00:19:48 2017 No.10020779

>>10020750
shared culture, nationality, and ethnicity promote similar social bonding.

the nordic nations are highly irreligious yet continue to have strong social trust, though that may decline with the influx of poor muslim immigrants. those nations also have strong social democratic policies to reduce status distinctions and enable economic opportunity.

id wager if america had kept its new deal type policies then things would be less bad.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 00:21:21 2017 No.10020784 >>10019933 it's not just capitalism. if you take 90% of what he says and you pretend he's left wing it wouldn't even be out of place. he's a psychologist who doesn't know what cognitive dissonance is.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 00:25:15 2017 No.10020798 >>10020779 >id wager if america had kept its new deal type policies then things would be less bad. >implying the New Deal ever ended you probably mean the american system + immigration quotas

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 00:25:54 2017 No.10020800 >>10019933 ITT: the capitalism that can be regulated is not the true capitalism.

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 00:28:26 2017 No.10020811

>>10020798
many of the social democratic programs started and inspired by new deal have been cut or downsized since the early 80s. compared to the nordic nations the usa is lacking in many different dimensions.

though i agree that unlimited illegal immigration doesn't help low income natives.

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 00:31:51 2017 No.10020827

>>10020779
Religion isn't the only possible system of bonding to orient your society around, I agree. But enforcing economic equality in a nation with severe cultural distinctions (like America) is a recipe for even greater resentment. If the fruits of my labor are going to someone else, I better have something in common with that someone else, or I won't perceive it as anything other than theft. The small size and ethnic homogeneity of Scandinavia is what allowed socialism to work there.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 00:32:41 2017 No.10020831 >>10020584 astute gestalt

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 00:39:53 2017 No.10020846

>>10020827
yes, there's been research on this subject to suggest that increased diversity and multiculturalism reduces social trust and support for welfare programs.

though i think not all welfare is equal. providing quality education, including university and vocational schools, is in everyone's best interests as it increases human capital and economic growth. systems like universal health care are more efficient and effective than america's. you could make fiscally conservative arguments in favor of such policies.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 00:44:30 2017 No.10020858 File: 123 KB, 260x394, MaoJones.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10020831 >astute gestalt

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 00:53:20 2017 No.10020888 File: 97 KB, 1130x872, Variable_interactions-1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10020827

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 00:57:17 2017 No.10020893 File: 50 KB, 475x454, hnWYXT4i6PE.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10019966 >there are people who actually believe women become single mothers on purpose to receive meagre sums of welfare

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 01:06:57 2017 No.10020927

>>10020893
I think he's saying that marital bonds are strengthened when both parties need one another, rather than it being just a choice. If you remove any economic incentive for a woman to stay married, then that freedom will be exploited by a large percentage of women.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 01:12:03 2017 No.10020948 >>10019960 Why do you think the alternatives would restore traditional morality?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 01:12:34 2017 No.10020951 >>10020893 Yes. That does happen. And, If you lived in a low income community you would know that that happens a fair amount.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 01:12:41 2017 No.10020952 >>10020893 >women are too dumb to stop shitting out kids they can't afford What a misogynistic attitude.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 01:13:15 2017 No.10020957 >>10020948 because they ban swing music, the singular cause of western decline.

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 01:21:14 2017 No.10020976

>>10020846
The thing about a federalized nation like America is that you can do this on a local state level. And because the taxpayer shares a tighter bond with his local statesman than he does with someone living a thousand miles away who speaks with a different accent, he's more likely to concede to paying for those programs. I live in Connecticut, and I got free healthcare and education because of my poverty.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 01:21:36 2017 No.10020979 but the cause of the decline in culture, family, tradition, morals and hard work is nihilist fueled post-modernism. Capitalism moves people out of abject poverty faster than any system in history. between 2000 and 2013 overall poverty HALVED.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 01:22:25 2017 No.10020983 >>10020182 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-eMSRjU4A0 watch all of this

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 01:24:48 2017 No.10020987 >>10020979 >Capitalism moves people out of abject poverty faster than any system in history. imblying they care about poverty, they don't like capitalism 'cus Jews are good at it

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 01:26:55 2017 No.10020993 >>10020983 Comedians are literally bottom of the barrel shit if i wanted to learn something i'd read and if i wanted to have a good laugh i'd get shitfaced with a salesperson.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 01:29:15 2017 No.10020997 File: 218 KB, 1080x1349, 21568553_128889391089332_6874559812579885056_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10020993 >sucking a salesman's cock kill yourself cuck

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 01:33:28 2017 No.10021009 >>10020997 >being this triggered Not surprised somebody who loves comedians is a massive faggot.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 01:36:49 2017 No.10021018 >>10019933 >tfw ywn be forced to work for the same feudal lord as your ancestors and see half of your siblings die before adulthood ; ;

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 01:41:50 2017 No.10021037

>>10020987
Jews are only good at it because they have a higher average iq, and iq is the single biggest factor in your earning potential. Jews also practice self interest more often and if they do think in terms of a group they are very tribal, and their tribe is a much smaller group. Its like the tower of babel, when you have a tower so tall to reach the heavens its inpossible to have any semblence of efficient action. You want a tower big enough to give rise to the individual, but small enough that you have a significant place inside of it. This is a very good trait to have if you want to ve successful in capitalism and is why Jews, Asians and other tightly knit but self-serving groups do so well.

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 01:54:14 2017 No.10021075

>>10021037
No. There are strengths and weaknesses to their beliefs and practices. For one circumcision allows males to focus on work and school during adolescences instead of sex and masturbation leading to higher levels of education while still maintain the ability to reproduce. Their beliefs are also exclusive in that they are taught to be cunning and to take advantage of other people and to support only their own. But there's an inherent contradiction to this belief in that it requires the existence of a larger goyim population compared to their own. Of course there can exists a state in which all members are jews but then their would be no one to take advantage of and so they will end up fracturing and killing each other.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 02:01:17 2017 No.10021087 >>10021075 completely agree, good points

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 03:54:46 2017 No.10021333
File: 23 KB, 301x378, muhcapitalism.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

ITT: people that have no understanding of basic economics, fall for retard tier fallacies and blame MUH EVIL CAPITALISM on everything bad in this world.

see pic related. globalism and capitalism has lifted billions of people out of poverty and continues to do so.

inb4 "economist and the world bank are jewish propaganda institutes"

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 04:07:40 2017 No.10021367 >>10019966 forcing peasants out of the fields and into the factories destroyed western society and it probably can't recover

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 04:12:13 2017 No.10021381
File: 164 KB, 500x571, when-your-retarded-system-collapses-but-its-okay-because-it-.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10020610
Hard to find time for self-expression when you don't have enough to eat or work all day in a labor camp for speaking against the state though :^)

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 04:16:50 2017 No.10021394 >>10019933 >Capitalism is the problem when central bank exists and we're off the gold standard What the hell is wrong with you lefties? Aren't you tired of beating that strawman?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 04:18:56 2017 No.10021398 >>10021394 the OP's statement could be made by a fascist too

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 04:20:44 2017 No.10021404 >>10021398 It's lacking (((something))) to be fascist.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 05:09:56 2017 No.10021525 >>10019933 Capitalism is by far the best economic system, but I feel that culture shouldn't become a commodity

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 05:35:41 2017 No.10021586 >>10021333 Where will capitalism keep finding cheap labour though?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 05:39:01 2017 No.10021592 >>10019960 Become a right wing paganist like varg or that muscled gay lad who wrote the way of men.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 05:40:08 2017 No.10021594 >>10021586 By destroying workers' rights.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 05:42:19 2017 No.10021600 >>10020042 >guys, pls. One cause for one effect xd

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 06:06:55 2017 No.10021658 >>10021367 Forcing hunters out of the grasslands and into the fields destroyed western society and it probably can't recover

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 06:08:34 2017 No.10021661 >>10021367 I love how people who criticize capitalism always think of situations from the 1800s

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 06:08:48 2017 No.10021662 >>10020099 >anarcho-capitalism >>>/Somalia/

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 06:09:34 2017 No.10021665 nah

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 06:13:02 2017 No.10021676 File: 12 KB, 171x266, nick land.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >he thinks capitalism needs support

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 06:13:14 2017 No.10021677 >>10020112 Rothbard's logic is consistent and correct there, you pleb

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 06:18:28 2017 No.10021690 >>10020711 t. Postmodernist

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 06:44:34 2017 No.10021747 >>10021594 you'd assume people on /lit/ had basic reading comprehension lmao

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 06:46:04 2017 No.10021753 >>10021586 why would it have to "find" cheap labour somewhere?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 06:47:09 2017 No.10021755 >>10021658 this but unironically

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 06:49:37 2017 No.10021757 >>10021747 Do you need me to draw you a diagram? Hasn't Baba finished Economics For Dummies?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 06:52:22 2017 No.10021766 >>10021757 >do you need me to draw you a diagram? you really can't grasp the meaning of a single sentence can you

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 06:54:05 2017 No.10021770 >>10021766 We want good shitposts, remember? This is well below the bar.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 07:08:56 2017 No.10021793 >>10021753 in order to maximise profit margins

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 07:13:31 2017 No.10021801 >>10021677 >internally consistent arguments make ethically acceptable arguments is this... the power of ancap thinking??

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 07:58:14 2017 No.10021894 File: 2.03 MB, 1630x960, ffd6a338477e8e7a6d48c1e6ad751f143cbe440c0ab5ce4aaab548944a8738ca.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10020189 It's a complete mystery.

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 08:07:07 2017 No.10021913

>>10021801
I'm not even an ancap, I'm a socdem, I'm just not a hypocrite. And double standards and hypocrisy make "ethically" unacceptable arguments since that allows some fucked up tyranny on the state's part, and his arguments are right. Maybe because you're an overemotional cretin, you're making the leap from not being forced to feed the child, to you shouldn't feed the child.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 08:09:08 2017 No.10021919 >>10019933 He's like a cowardly Canadian Bowden

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 08:10:24 2017 No.10021921

>>10020827
The fact you wouldn't perceive it as theft if the person is similar to you suggests you're spooked as fuck
>The small size and ethnic homogeneity of Scandinavia is what allowed socialism to work there
Citation needed
And social democracy isn't socialism

>>10020846

>yes, there's been research on this subject to suggest that increased diversity and multiculturalism reduces social trust and support for welfare programs.
Citation needed

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 08:16:38 2017 No.10021928

>>10020952
>women don't have sufficient access to birth control, abortion and contraception to prevent them having babies when they can't handle one, or their circumstances change and make them unable to
That's the real "misogynistic" attitude

>>10020951
Wow, this is just wrong. Children are a burden if you can't take care of them. With all the unexpected expenses and the opportunity cost of rearing children, children cost more than the slight money you get for having them. They make actually doing anything you want nigh on impossible, and they make finding a spouse super difficult. If I were a woman, I'd easily see that it's a retarded idea to do what you're saying. And I do live in a low income community, and I see the opposite generally

>>10020927
You really don't understand how little money single welfare mothers get

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 08:17:26 2017 No.10021933 >>10020979 Yeah because the average wage slave on the street has read Derrida. Shut up, moron.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 08:17:51 2017 No.10021936 >>10021075 Yes, that's exactly what's happening in Israel. All the Jews there are fracturing and killing each other

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 08:18:26 2017 No.10021938 >>10021333 Poverty is a capitalist term. So what you're essentially saying is "Capitalism saved Capitalism"

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 08:28:16 2017 No.10021954 File: 479 KB, 1144x888, nazbolpepe.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10019960 Read Dugin.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 08:29:01 2017 No.10021955 >>10021938 cringe

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 08:34:17 2017 No.10021962 File: 1.10 MB, 1443x1003, workhousegate1.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10021955 He's right though.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 08:35:32 2017 No.10021965 File: 83 KB, 400x289, Reichstag_flag_original.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10021954 Only, the exact opposite happened.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 08:36:30 2017 No.10021967 >>10021962 poverty existed long before capitalism

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 08:50:38 2017 No.10021981
File: 30 KB, 590x393, m9ksx8ik1jc_0-590x393.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10021965
I think you need glasses.

Also, I don't think you've noticed but both fascism and marxism are both deader than dead, both killed by the same enemy, capitalist liberalism.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 09:04:30 2017 No.10022004 >>10021967 >Does it again

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 09:09:05 2017 No.10022017 >>10021938 >>10021962 >>10022004 Elaborate

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 09:10:52 2017 No.10022023 >>10021676 TOMORROW CAN TAKE CARE OF ITSELF >:)

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 09:32:48 2017 No.10022079 >>10021981 Only capitalist liberalism isn't sustainable long term. The cracks are already beginning to show.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 09:47:41 2017 No.10022117 >>10021933 >you need to read derrida in order to make contact with highly disseminated ideas /lit/ really is the most intelectual bord

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 10:08:40 2017 No.10022168 File: 125 KB, 1400x1400, DGs805-VwAAgYeh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10022079 So it would seem to the uninitiated but the truth is that it's stronger than ever.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 10:39:18 2017 No.10022256 The fuck does this have to do with literature? If only /pol/ wasn't such a shithole, that should be where this discussion occurs. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 10:41:39 2017 No.10022266 File: 53 KB, 1024x592, IMG_3280.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10020042 Everything IS. That's the idea. I Am That I Am.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 10:47:42 2017 No.10022278 >>10021793 That's a possible result, not a requirement.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 10:49:29 2017 No.10022286 >>10021962 good point

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 10:51:01 2017 No.10022291

>>10022256
>If only /pol/ wasn't such a shithole, that should be where this discussion occurs.

Obviously. The "move political discussion to /pol/" rule is a complete meme because of how biased this place is. Moving pol to another website or having a "neutral politics" discussion board would be a good start

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 11:39:29 2017 No.10022424

>>10019933
>Decline of culture
Mass influx of immigration since the 60s
Leftist demonization of masculinity and anything western/Caucasian while anything non-western/non-white is glorified

>Decline of family
2nd wave feminist introduction of 'no-fault divorce' coupled with huge bias for women in divorce court heavily incentivises mothers to leave fathers in pursuit of 'freedom' to have sex with whoever she wants and to get child support. Throw in leftist welfare state (quite socialist) and women are more-or-less paid to become single mothers.

>Decline of traditions
"Happy Holidays", leftists! Christmas is racist, offensive, and insensitive to migrants who don't wish to conform to the culture of the nation.

>Decline of morals
Leftist/2nd wave feminist promotion of 'sexual liberation'. Slut walks, State-sponsored murdering of unborn children (abortions), and as mentioned women are being paid to become single mothers in the event that the children are birthed. More black babies are aborted than born. Children raised by single mothers are statistically more likely to become murderers, rapists, and drug abusers (around 80% of prisoners in US jails grew up in single mother households).

>Decline of hard work
Illegal immigration has kept wages low, less money to go around and keep the economy strong, and as mentioned there's a welfare state. Why work when you could just sit on your ass all day to get enough money to live?

Much of this was supported by the left, because when you rely on the Government to pay your bills, you're inclined to vote for the political party that will promise more money; the Democrats. Capitalism is the best that the world has presently available. Socialism/Communism is great if you want people to lose weight and keep it off, permanently. Over 100 million deaths in the 20th century, more suffering in Venezuela now in the 21st century. Doesn't matter if it's "not true Socialism", it's yet another attempt, and every attempt to my knowledge in human history has lead to suffering. Just like National Socialism (Nazism) lead to millions of deaths. Capitalism is the only true way that we presently have.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 11:43:09 2017 No.10022436 >>10020584 I have a feeling he has a huge audience of insecure women too.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 11:45:14 2017 No.10022444 >>10019933 Capitalism isn't a flawed system. (((They))) are the ones that make it flawed.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 13:09:51 2017 No.10022688 >>10020584 This doesn't seem any different from the left's blind autistic screeching of "Trump is literally Hitler!" Completely baseless and intellectually empty.

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 13:18:11 2017 No.10022714

>>10019964
>>10019974
nazbol is a meme for people too pussy to become natsoc

>>10019933
>Complains about the decline of culture, the family, tradition, morals and hard work
>Supports Capitalism, the very thing that caused this all to happen
That's not wrong but it's not exactly the case, it is mostly Frankfurt School's cultural marxism and the marxist subversion through academia that has caused those things

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 13:22:07 2017 No.10022736 >>10019933 Commies in this thread implying >capitalism = the antithesis to functioning society is some obvious a priori fact.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 13:58:59 2017 No.10022863 >>10022256 It's a philosophical discussions

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 14:17:30 2017 No.10022918

>>10022424
Just a few opinions:
>Leftist demonization of masculinity
Pretty true, but in the 60's, "being a man" meant dying for your country in Vietnam. When all the other side can offer is a chance to die for the ones in power, is it any wonder people turn to flower power etc?
>women are more-or-less paid to become single mothers.
While I think the alimony system is absolutely bullshit, you're deluded if you don't think the vast majority of single households are caused by men walking out on their families. I mean, what's more likely - parents in a stable realtionship divorcing because the woman want to get money and ride dick, or a young couple getting accidently knocked up and the dad walking out because he can't deal?
>Decline of morals
"morals" is such a vague concept that in 90% of cases boil down to "thing that I approve of". Was slavery moral? Was Jim Crow? Same-sex right? Why is all progressive ideas are solely a leftist agenda, and not people pushing back against a conservative system that enforced very narrow options for what you were allowed to be? The american conservative view seems to be that the economy should be as free as possible, but the people must be kept in line.

And while I agree that capitalism is a very good system even for poor countries, and communism is fucking retarded, I reject the idea more capitalism is a purely good thing. Just look at America, which is absolutly fucked back to front by big corporations, and this very system is at the same time defended by a vast number of americans. Americans will not accept being fucked over by the government, but are more than happy to bend over for a multinational conglomerate.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 14:22:52 2017 No.10022932 >>10020143 In what distorted reality is Peterson anti-religion?

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 15:40:20 2017 No.10023191

>>10022918
>vast majority of single households are caused by men walking out on their families
Over 60% of divorces are filed by women (less than 40% by men), bias towards females incentivizes women to take advantage of the system and steal from the father's wallet, and modern black (gangsta) culture is filled with disrespect to women, careless sex, and all this combined has resulted in something like 70% of black kids being raised by just their mother. No, the vast majority of single households are not because of men. It's because of women with no morals who don't care about their children and want to make a quick buck. Women who have been widowed, or women who have been with men WHO BEAT THEM (I don't give a fuck about any other kind of 'abuse'), my heart goes out to them, but those instances are in the vast minority.

>Morals
The concept of morals, for lack of a better term, is 'fluid' in terms of history. It changes with time, but something that doesn't change is that some things work and somethings doesn't. Divorce... doesn't work. It does not. The vast majority of the time, if not ALL the time, it leads to less happiness on all accounts in the long run. Ask a feminist who divorced the father to become a single mom after the child has grown up and they're left on their own. From the age of 40-80 is a fucking long time, and many feminists are miserable in those decades because they're alone and childless either because they chose not to have kids or their kids ended up fucked up because they didn't have a father figure.

Marriage works, and it should be encouraged. No, don't give me those cherry-picked situations of 'the guy could end up beating her and the kids' or 'the woman could become a druggie or an alcoholic', when marriages are worked on and the couple stays together, they have someone for LIFE. Growing old and alone is misery. Feminism has made women miserable. Women would be happier at home raising kids rather than wasting their fertile years on pursuing a career, only to end up wealthy but childless.

>Homosexuality
There's no question that western culture, even western Conservatives such as myself, have accepted the LGBT community, however personally if you start tacking on more letters (including Q) that's here I draw the line. Even Christians are largely pro-LGBT. If we weren't, there would NOT be gay marriage in the west. America is about 70% Christian, Canada around 65%, UK also majority Christian... if we as Christians wanted to stop gay marriage, we could with absolute ease, but we don't. The staunchly anti-LGBT Christians are the vast minority. Meanwhile in London about 90% of Muslims believe homosexuality is unacceptable and about 50% of them want homosexuality to be illegal, so take that however you may, but Christianity has done no end of good for western culture and has given us the amazing lifestyle we have now. The greatest Universities and Colleges on the planet were founded by the church and/or Christians.

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:08:10 2017 No.10023305

>>10022424
>Mass influx of immigration since the 60s

Pushed by Capitalists for cheap labour.

>2nd wave feminist introduction of 'no-fault divorce' coupled with huge bias for women in divorce court heavily incentivises mothers to leave fathers in pursuit of 'freedom' to have sex with whoever she wants and to get child support. Throw in leftist welfare state (quite socialist) and women are more-or-less paid to become single mothers.

Pushed by Capitalists so that women would join the job market and lower wages.

>"Happy Holidays", leftists! Christmas is racist, offensive, and insensitive to migrants who don't wish to conform to the culture of the nation.

Pushed by Capitalists to make culture more widely appealing and therefore more profitable to more consumers.

>Leftist/2nd wave feminist promotion of 'sexual liberation'. Slut walks, State-sponsored murdering of unborn children (abortions), and as mentioned women are being paid to become single mothers in the event that the children are birthed. More black babies are aborted than born. Children raised by single mothers are statistically more likely to become murderers, rapists, and drug abusers (around 80% of prisoners in US jails grew up in single mother households).

Same reason as before.

>Illegal immigration has kept wages low, less money to go around and keep the economy strong, and as mentioned there's a welfare state. Why work when you could just sit on your ass all day to get enough money to live?

Again, a Capitalist problem lol.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:12:25 2017 No.10023323 >>10020112 WTF I AM LIBERTARIAN NOW

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:14:44 2017 No.10023330

>>10021913
His point is that in Rothbard's ideal society letting your 4years-old son starve is a-okay. You can feed him, but this is irrelevant, for Rothbard's ethics does not care about wether you do so or not.
It may be internally consistent, but this has nothing to do with the actual validity of his ethical system. Personally, and call me an overemotional cretin if you want, every ethicist who reaches the conclusion that letting your son starve is an ethically neutral conclusion is operating on fundamentally wrong and inhuman paradygms.

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:27:18 2017 No.10023375
File: 137 KB, 500x725, 1490157671134.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10021586
Automation. Why hire dirt poor workers who have a chance at grouping up and rebelling when you can just make robots do it for you with a fraction of the cost and a fraction of the complaints?

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:30:37 2017 No.10023386

>>10023191
While Christians have done a good job on many things, tolerance for homosexual marriage is not one of them. The data shows that a child is best raised by a man and woman, as you said. If that's the case, there is no reason for gay marriage to exist. Marriage is a tool for creating a family, but if that family cannot support children, it has no utility.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:32:10 2017 No.10023389 >>10023305 Funny coincidence that all those capitalists all seem to be Jewish.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:35:14 2017 No.10023395 >>10023386 Boiling down complicated emotional relationships into "utility" is an awfully limited view dont ya think?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:35:56 2017 No.10023399 >>10023389 Funny coincidence that everyone you don't like is Jewish.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:37:19 2017 No.10023401 >>10023399 Am I wrong though?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:38:21 2017 No.10023403 >>10022932 Peterson looks like religion as if the texts were some kind of self-help book or a book of fables rather than the cornerstone of human civilization.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:38:39 2017 No.10023405 >>10023395 Marriage isn't a relationship, it's a social contract designed to support a new family. There's nothing stopping gays from living together, but there is no point in them marrying.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:38:45 2017 No.10023406 >>10023399 Oooh what you gotta say now $$$

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:41:13 2017 No.10023418 >>10021592 Varg is nazbol https://youtu.be/93cO8Dxtkkc

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:41:32 2017 No.10023419

>>10023191
>Over 60% of divorces
Ding ding ding. How many couples that get pregnant when they're not ready/want it are married, you think? While I agree that a stable family/marriage is good for the children and you know, society in general, it doesn't actually fix already present problems in the relationship. Sure, divorce might be taken too lightly, but marriage isn't some fix-all. The reason it "worked" was because divorce just wasn't an option. Personally, I find the idea that you should stay in a relationship you hate because your culture says so distasteful, but disregarding that, I think the idea that you could source most of societies problems towards that questionable. I'd argue that societal problems cause shitty marriages, not the other way around.
>even western Conservatives such as myself, have accepted the LGBT community
I'm sorry, but that's historical revisionism. I'm sure the majority of the curch was against apartheid as well? Face it, the majority of the christians were right in there with the rest of the country in supporting all kinds of shitty things, and atleast have the decency to admit you fucked up along with everyone else, or stick to your guns. Don't weasel in some "well we were actually on your side all along".

I'm not arguing that christianity hasn't done good things for western civilization, but I reject the concept that christianty represents the values that made us great, especially since the church has had no trouble repressing ideas that it disliked. Furthermore, it implies that the church is apolitical or immutable, when it has, as with every concievable religion, been interpreted to suit the agenda du jour.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:43:48 2017 No.10023434 >>10023405 >Marriage: the legally or formally recognized union of two people as partners in a personal relationship nothing in that definition says to "support a new family".

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:43:54 2017 No.10023435 >>10019960 >right wing on social issues >individualist

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:47:23 2017 No.10023454 >>10023434 I disagree with that definition.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:50:40 2017 No.10023471 >>10023434 Yeah, that's more what I call a civil union. The word "marriage" has many implications.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:51:25 2017 No.10023476 >>10023435 sometimes liberal stances are actually minimizing freedom

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 16:51:27 2017 No.10023477 >>10020112 Rothbard isn't a libertarian

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 17:27:00 2017 No.10023634 >>10023454 I disagree with your disagreement.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 17:40:48 2017 No.10023691 >>10019960 try strasserism

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 17:59:32 2017 No.10023783

>>10023419
I never said Christians didn't support bad things, I mean there was probably some Christian basis in witch-burning. MODERN Christians however, are awesome. Hell, even Christians 150 years ago in a time when homosexuality was illegal in some western nations, were better than so damn many modern Muslims. I mean, when they toss gays from rooftops, all that the on-lookers have to say is "Allahu ackbar" (God is great/Allah is great). Shit, 150 years ago slavery was abolished pretty much everywhere in the west, including in the United States, but there are still slaves in the Middle East which is a practice heavily supported by the Quran.

So no, I never suggested that Christians were ALWAYS good, but I think we're the best you're gonna get these days overall. The Hindus in India are doing what they can but Indian society is still nowhere even close to Christian/western society. Buddha? A religion I'm very curious about and I look forward to having a conversation with a Buddhist for the first time, but it's still quite hit or miss. Japan is doing great, in fact in terms of immigration they're doing better because they keep their borders very secure, even monitoring local Muslims apparently. I'd love to see surveillance kept in all Mosques across North America and Europe. If they demand to have churches surveilled too, GO FOR IT! Islam is a big problem nowadays however, people are DYING, and we don't need that nonsense in the west. Leave their barbaric, violent, sexist, and homophobic practices in the Middle East if they love them so much.

As for the Crusades... 600s-1000s, with practically constant warfare, attacks, pillaging, raping, enslaving, and unjust taxing (Jizyah)... after a few hundred years of THAT shit I'd be pretty damn pissed off too. God says thou shalt not kill, but the Bible also says if a thief breaks into your home at night and is struck a fatal blow, it is not unjust manslaughter. I believe that much of that manslaughter during the Crusades was quite just.

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 18:37:07 2017 No.10023933

>>10023783
Look, religion has been used to justify a lot of shit, and has also been responsible for some great human accomplishments. While I don't think christianity is the cornerstone of western civilization, a lot of art, literature, philosophy and theology has come from it, which is fantastic. But IMO, this was also a result of the people challenging the commonly held status quo within the church and discussing ideas, which to me is an essential part of western civilization. And that is exactly the problem with Islam, that they never allowed that to happen.

Now, there's is a lot of discussion regarding if this is an inherent aspect of Islam and that it's poisoned to the core. It is my personal opinion, maybe a bit naive, that people generally avoid extremism if possible for them. I mean, Indonesia is the largest muslim country, but that's not were the radicals are located, they're in the middle east, which has been absolutely fucked to hell and back by meddling from Soviet and the US. Shit, Iran was a relatively liberal country until the revolution, but there's no room for that shit in a region that has been a war zone for half a century. So I don't know. While I appriciate a lot of things regarding religion, I don't particularly consider them to be a very good moral guide. My dislike for Islam has a lot more to do with it's authoritorian and opressive aspect, and I know that can be found in any religion, from Buddhism to Christianity.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 19:11:20 2017 No.10024059 >>10019966 That's a consequence of capitalism.

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 19:12:45 2017 No.10024069

>>10023933
I definitely believe Christianity is the cornerstone of western civilization, and that without Christianity then the west would be nowhere near as great as it is today, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there. I mean, I'm not ignorant to some of the bad stuff in the Bible, ESPECIALLY the Old Testament, dear GOD! Leviticus 20:13 "If a man should lie with a man as he would a woman then they should both be put to death", and chapter 20 of Leviticus is just FILLED with various other things like that, including incest and bestiality. It also promotes stoning. What did Jesus Christ say however? "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", thereby he directly refuted some teachings of the Old Testament, which explains why a priest told me that the best way to read the gospels is to start with the New Testament (which is easier to read, told me the Old Testament can be pretty difficult in parts), then read the Old Testament through the lens of the New as well as through the lens of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

As for Islam, firstly, people are regularly beheaded in Indonesia at the hands of Muslims, including in 2005 when 3 teenage high school girls were beheaded while on their way to a Christian school. They were I think one who was 15 and two who were 17. As for Islam as a religion in general, I have read a fair chunk of the Quran, seeking both good and bad. There's about two or three passages I genuinely sounds good, but there's so much that promotes going to war in the name of Allah, that if you refuse to fight in the name of Allah then you will be "punished with a painful punishment", and seriously the Quran must be up there with Mein Kampf and The International Jew in terms of anti-Semitism. "Don't trust Jews", "Jews have tongues like snakes", "Jews lie", "Don't take Jews as allies", and also a healthy dose of "Don't take Christians as allies" as well as "Don't take non-beleivers as allies" in general. In teh Quran, believer=Muslim, and non-believer=non-Muslim.

Jesus Christ has taught us that Christianity can bend and sway with the advancements of society, that sometimes things should not be followed. He was basically a hippie who got literally crucified. As for Prophet Muhammad, he married a 6 year old, consummated the marriage when she was 9, struck her in the chest "causing great pain" (Quran says that if a wife proves arrogant she should be first advised, if she doesn't change then she should be shunned from bed, and if she continues to be arrogant then strike her. In short the Quran is A-OK with a Muslim husband battering a Muslim wife, speaking of which under Sharia Law a Muslim cannot marry a non-Muslim), and He was also a warlord. Prophet Muhammad was big on waging wars. Also, the moment he died, a civil war broke out woth the Muslims with different factions and wars are STILL being waged because of it to this very day. The Quran is VERY pro-war. Don't take my word; assume I lie (like taqiyya) and read the Quran

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 19:30:26 2017 No.10024155 File: 47 KB, 998x726, aD7rSr7.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10024069 Agreed. See the Talmud for similar examples about goyim (non-Jews).

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 19:31:22 2017 No.10024157

>>10024069
Yeah, I think it's very important to be honest with what Islam actually promotes and preaches. It's also complicated because the line between religion and culture is blurred - when the two intermingle so much, where do you draw the line? Is there any point in being an islamic apologist if there's no moderate part? I mean on 4chan you'll learn that there is no such thing as a moderate muslim, but I've always found those arguments to be a bit too simplified to actually hold up in the real world. But even in the internet age, the cultural divide is very real - I have very little experience about life in muslim countries.

In any case, I think we both can agree on while christianity certainly has its up and downs, right now it's in a far better position than Islam. I would like to see a reformation movement in Islam and see what comes of it, but I doubt we'll see it in a long, long time.

Anonymous Thu Sep 14 19:46:58 2017 No.10024213

>>10024155
I'm going to save this, research the passages for authenticity, and see if there's any 'New/Old Testament' sort of thing like Christianity where negative Christian stuff is basically ignored according to newer teachings. After all, if such is the case, and if all those are from the 'Old Testament' as it were meanwhile the newer teachings go against that, it's no different than an atheist bringing up all the worst in the Old Testament (and there's a lot) even though the New Testament overrides the Old should there be conflicting passages. Thanks a lot all the same, I do wish to learn about all the major religions in time.

>>10024157
>line between religion and culture is blurred
I hear this all the damn time from the left and I STILL don't get it. So far, from what I'm seeing, there's LOTS in both the culture AND the religion AND the law system (Sharia Law which is also based off the religion) that is in direct confliction with western ideals. Where do I draw the line (I realize the question was likely rhetorical, but none the less), I draw the line at "if you think suicide bombings can be justified, if you think thieves should have their hands cut off, if you think apostates of Islam should be put to death, if you think Sharia Law overrides western laws, if you think women are completely inferior to men in all ways, and/or if you think homosexuality is completely unacceptable, then git out!" Note 'and/or', meaning if they have ANY of those views, I think they should stay out of the west. Yes men and women are different, yes men are generally bigger/stronger/faster than women, but blatant sexism of absolute "women are beneath men" is not acceptable in our society.

The thing is, it's not 'an extreme minority' that hold these beliefs. In Pakistan and Egypt as I recall, over 80% of the Muslim population believe apostates (Muslims who have left the Islamic religion) should be put to death, and in many Muslim-majority nations there are LAWS in effect against apostates either outright being put to death or being jailed. Even in Turkey, which seems to be one of the most moderate Islamic nations, what is it, 8% believe apostates should be put to death? Hang on... alright, Turkey has 79.5 million people. Let's say I'm wrong and only 4% of Muslims in Turkey believe apostates should be put to death. That's 3.18 million Muslims, and that's in one of the MOST MODERATE Muslim-majority nations! Starting to see the problem?

Again, I encourage you to automatically assume I'm some sick anti-Muslim bigot; research this stuff yourself. Nobody should ever automatically believe things they read from one single source on the internet. Check various sources before you consider putting things to memory.

A note on the Jew thing though from the last guy, I think it should be noted that "Jewish terrorism" doesn't seem to be much of a problem. If it is one, it's VASTLY overshadowed by the widespread Islamic terrorism.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 19:49:23 2017 No.10024223 >>10019960 cool Louis Wain pic but you sound like a fag.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 20:35:00 2017 No.10024429 File: 7 KB, 250x231, 1497832291380.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10021592 >muscled gay lad who wrote the way of men. w-who?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 20:37:03 2017 No.10024436 >>10024429 jack donovan

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 21:46:31 2017 No.10024755 >>10022079 >The cracks are already beginning to show How so?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 22:17:47 2017 No.10024887 >>10021913 >the logic is correct so the reasoning is fine and the basis is fine Back to plebbit.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 22:49:59 2017 No.10025016 Keep capitalism just use our fucking taxes for social services instead goddamn rebates for oil companies and making us pay for health insurance. Fucking americunt here if you didn't guess.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 22:51:01 2017 No.10025023 >>10019933 Capitalism isn't alone. It competes with the alternatives, which in turn are >Bread and Circus >Socialism All three are horrible.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 23:12:31 2017 No.10025117 >>10021075 >For one circumcision allows males to focus on work and school during adolescences instead of sex and masturbation leading to higher levels of education while still maintain the ability to reproduce What the fuck am I reading?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 23:24:24 2017 No.10025161 >>10022424 >>10023305 So basically leftists promote dangerous and destructive ideas, and the efficient machinery of capitalism helps them disseminate those ideas. Terrifying.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 14 23:26:08 2017 No.10025170 >>10025023 Hol up, I thought socialism WAS bread and circus

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 03:43:33 2017 No.10025855

>>10023330
That isn't his point at all, learn to read. His point is from a legal standpoint, you shouldn't be forced by the law to feed your child, unless you allow parents to own their children. It's about muh rights. That has no bearing on whether or not you should feed your child, unless you were only feeding your child to avoid legal repercussions. Of course it's relevant, having shitloads of starving children is wasteful and means the next generation will he worse off, but still the law cannot interfere without being hypocritical.
He doesn't say it's an ethically neutral position, he says it's a legally neutral position. Legality is not ethics. If what you do is entirely determined by what is legal, you're probably a bad person. He didn't reach that conclusion, you made it via your astoundingly poor reading comprehension and astoundingly large leaps of logic.

>>10024887
The logic correct would imply the reasoning being fine, that's what validity is. For soundness, if you agree any double standards in the law are untenable, then it's sound too

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 03:44:56 2017 No.10025858 >>10025170 Bread and circuses can be combined with any economic system to keep the populace malleable

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 03:46:26 2017 No.10025862 >>10022278 That's literally the driving force of capitalism

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 03:48:20 2017 No.10025866 >>10025170 lol, in what country was socialism ever bread?

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 03:49:12 2017 No.10025870 >>10019960 >tfw i'm retarded ftfy

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 03:52:06 2017 No.10025872 >>10022714 On the contrary, NatSoc is a meme for people too pussy to be NazBol. NazBol is full peddle to the metal ultra-nationalism and radical anti-capitalism at once. It's NatSoc that's the moderate variety.

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 04:03:08 2017 No.10025890

>>10023191
A disproportionately high amount of black kids live with only their mother, but the CDC showed in those cases the fathers are just as, and sometimes more, involved in the lives of their children than white and Hispanic fathers.

>women, let me decide for you what will make you happy

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 04:04:38 2017 No.10025893 File: 63 KB, 720x540, 1505282848234.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10022714 >cultural Marxism

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 04:06:06 2017 No.10025895 File: 17 KB, 207x253, 1500207186758.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10023386 >the data shows that a child is best raised by a man and a woman

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 06:36:52 2017 No.10026146 >>10021658 except that predates western society

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 06:39:44 2017 No.10026153 >>10026146 Not really, hunter gatherers in the West could have their own society and set of ideals, and that would be western society, just prehistoric

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 06:46:40 2017 No.10026167
File: 25 KB, 612x380, drake question.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10023435
>left wants to make individual powerless and surrender physical power to the collective while right typically allows large physical powers to individuals, at least muh guns
>left wants to homogenize education while the right typically allows people not to follow government education
>left indtroduces various "anti-discmination" laws and completely destroy freedom of association/disociation while the right typically allows most of it
>virtually all people opposing legislative inflation are from the right
>most paternalistic laws come from the left, including bizarre regulations on food and drugs
>changes from country to country but having lived in the UK, Us and France the right is typically less hyepd about centralization
>right typically emphasize personality and responsibility in courts while le left has a tendency for muh society blaming
Name one (1) "social issue" that is not sexuality about which the right is not notably more individualistic than the left.

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 08:22:10 2017 No.10026358

>>10026167
>individualistic
what a wonderful word that sounds like a cowboy going it alone on the high plains, livin free, a rough man in a rough age, burly, hairy-chested, drinks whiskey straight from the bottle, loves 'em and leaves 'em, shoots from the hip etc and in reality it's a guy working 10 hour days not being able to pay for cancer treatment and dying in his bed like a dog

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 08:25:26 2017 No.10026366 >>10020893 There's no incentive to make marriage work if you have a socially acceptable safety net. At the very least the names of welfare recipients should be published to expose them for ridicule.

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 08:28:11 2017 No.10026377

>>10020112
This is what I've always felt is wrong with the libertarian or classically liberal viewpoints: a lack of compassion. While people appear to just be saying, "Don't be cruel to people, don't oppress people!", they're also saying, as an inevitable flipside, "But don't force me to help anyone else either."

This is also the problem with the traditional, supposedly American mindset of "You should be allowed to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else." No sense of community, so sense of ultimate higher value, no sense of caring for your fellow man. Just total selfishness, as if everyone being "enlightenedly selfish" will create a nice emotional environment for people to live in.

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 08:33:26 2017 No.10026399

>>10026377
>as if everyone being "enlightenedly selfish" will create a nice emotional environment for people to live in
that is the premise of capitalism in general
everyone behaves as a complete and utter cunt and somehow this will create well-being for everyone
of course it's ridiculous, but that's the point
there aren't many people that actually and truly believe that, it's just a mental trick that let's them be shitheads while being able to say "this is actually good"
the thing is, caring for others in any way other than saying the perfunctory platitude is very fucking hard, especially when that "caring" takes the form of the government taxing you and spending it on the great unwashed masses
so when you hear someone say "by being a piece of shit you are saving the world!" you'll hop to it pretty damn quick

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 08:35:41 2017 No.10026407

>>10024213
>"Jewish terrorism" doesn't seem to be much of a problem.
Jews invented modern terrorism with their attacks on British soldiers in Palestine. And jewish terrorism is one of the biggest threats out there, it's just done through official means, like with neocons and other upper class jews coercing the American government to destroy Israel's neighbors and send Iraq, Libya, and soon Syria and Iran into death spirals.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 09:12:02 2017 No.10026532 >>10026167 Abortion, contraception, divorces, off the top of my head.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 09:39:19 2017 No.10026621 File: 8 KB, 252x200, download (4).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >he fell for the causality meme

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 11:16:27 2017 No.10026937 >>10020056 he is right you know

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 12:05:37 2017 No.10027105 >>10019933 In order for that comment to make sense for men like Peterson, you would have to be arguing that capitalism only began in the 1960s

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 12:20:47 2017 No.10027174

>>10026407
Still sounds like the typical paranoia of anti-Semites, but let's assume you're right. Terrorist attacks decades ago back in the 40s-50s don't much worry me considering the rampant Islamic terrorism we have to deal with now and the seemingly non-existent terrorism coming any non-Muslim religions. I've heard of the upper-class Jews in America... and I'm not surprised. Jews are VERY intelligent people, no matter how much you might hate them, and no matter how much the Nazis thought they were scheming little rats with big noses. They have lots of doctors and lawyers in their midst because they seem to have a natural inclination to education. Therefore, I am not surprised that Jews are over-represented in American politics. As for coercing America to destroy Israel's neighbours and send Iraq/Libya/Syria/Iran into death spirals... where is the problem?

They're Muslim-majority nations, they're shit-holes, they have MILLIONS of people who support the killing of formerly-Muslim apostates, of cutting people's hands off if they steal, of supporting Sharia Law, and think that suicide bombings can be justified. I used to be against the wars in the Middle East, but I understand them now, in fact I support them. We need to keep the war on THEIR soil, because if they're too busy fighting our troops over there, then there's fewer of them that can work on attacking our civilians and buildings over here. Soldiers know the score, they know what's on the line, and I dearly hope that their efforts overseas is helping to keep their countrymen, including their family, that much safer, even though terrorism STILL happens within our borders in the west.

Now, if there were NO problems with Islamic terrorism, and if there were NO problems with Islamic rapings going on at the hands of refugees, and if the Muslims were 100% doing perfectly fine in the west just like basically any other religion, then yeah, I'd be suspicious of trying to kick up a stink with 'peaceful' Muslim nations around Israel. They're not peaceful though. Israel is, as far as I'm concerned, SURROUNDED by evil, and if I were living in Israel even as a Christian, then I'd want help from the west too. If your homeland was surrounded by Muslim nations, I think that you too would want help.

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 12:28:31 2017 No.10027201

>>10026407
>>10027174
I just figured out a way to describe the Israeli situation to make it more comparable for America, if you happen to be American.

>Canada is China
>Mexico is India
>They both hate America just as much if not more than North Korea
>Vastly outnumbered
>America has superior tech but nowhere near as many soldiers
>A joint attack can happen on both borders at any given moment
>Canada/China and Mexico/India are filled with blatantly anti-American books/propaganda (Quran, which is blatantly anti-Semetic)

So, with America in that predicament, assuming you care about America, don't you think they would want aid from, say, Europe? Perhaps even from Japan/South Korea/Australia over to the west? America might have the greatest overall Military on the planet (I am not American, by the way), but against such incredible numbers and with them having such an unwavering hatred and disposition of loathing for them, it's clear that a WHOLE lot of people would die and the possibility of outright losing VAST amounts of land if not the entirety of the war is a clear possibility if left alone. Almost like how the USSR still managed to take Nazi Germany in spite of inferior training/tech for the most part, largely just due to sheer numbers and an unwavering desire to see the enemy taken out.

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 12:34:32 2017 No.10027227
File: 74 KB, 1543x1360, Pepe Drake.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10026532
>that is not sexuality
First two are definitely sex.
Divorce is sort of sex related, but that might have fitted long ago. Today I'd be very surprised if divorce regulations would not be slacked by the right if only for voters interests.

>>10026358
Cancer treatment may be expensive, as is everything. And the cow boy worked too, probably more so than most people today.
Besides I am obviously talking about political conception, bringing up this is irrelevant. Are you trying to imply that you can't be free today?
By the way, would you really have been for individualism around cow boys, are you sure you wouldn't have bitched about muh rich cattle ranches and the poor cow boy that worked 10 hours that couldn't pay for comon cold treatment?

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 12:40:24 2017 No.10027251 >>10027227 >cow boy

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 12:41:05 2017 No.10027256

>>10027174
>As for coercing America to destroy Israel's neighbours and send Iraq/Libya/Syria/Iran into death spirals... where is the problem?

So are you jewish or just stupid? Allowing alien dual-citizens to send your people to die fighting their wars is treason and the jewish neocons responsible deserve to be hanged. This kind of destruction is par for the course with jews though. This is why they are universally despised and subject to frequent expulsions. They are not good people.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 12:45:48 2017 No.10027270 >>10027227 No, sexuality is things related to your health care, so things like not allowing discrimination on the grounds of sexuality. Abortion and contraception are health care

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 12:56:14 2017 No.10027299 File: 51 KB, 792x612, stanleykubrick03.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10025855 btfo the water real quick

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 13:02:42 2017 No.10027319 >>10019933 The moment you recognize that "capitalism" is a meme reified by communists is the moment we can finally move beyond it. Capitalism is shit yes, but the antidote to it isn't some other economically focused ideology.

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 13:07:03 2017 No.10027335

>>10022424
>Mass influx of immigration since the 60s
Leftist demonization of masculinity and anything western/Caucasian while anything non-western/non-white is glorified

While it's true that the Left has supported immigration because of muliculturalist ideology, the "Right" has also supported it for economic reasons, primarily for cheap labour and for boosting the consumer market. Today these motives overlap heavily, but it seems like a lot of the leftists are just useful idiots for Free-Market Open-border advocates.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 13:10:09 2017 No.10027346 File: 17 KB, 620x402, 1503086733444.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10020584 >tfw the left's intellectual standards have devolved into this

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 13:17:35 2017 No.10027375 >>10021921 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam#Diversity_and_trust_within_communities

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 13:25:53 2017 No.10027401 File: 278 KB, 617x571, a5b78da618b507d7d75833ab26d33f67b6a9bb95f738b77fdc77a7bf2feafb01.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10025895

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 13:27:16 2017 No.10027409 File: 104 KB, 960x905, 4d7abe8c73f2d169581b915b5906664a9c8810f0098b865b865ec1ed83722548.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10027401

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 13:30:09 2017 No.10027417 >>10023386 Is there any research to suggest gays are worse at raising kids? I doubt they significantly differ. And it's certain they'd be better for raising orphans and unwanted kids than the foster system.

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 13:31:05 2017 No.10027423

>>10027401
>>10027409
http://www.impactprogram.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Letter-to-the-editors-and-advisory-editors-of-Social-Science-Research.pdf
http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/general/2012/07/10/12-15388_Amicus_Brief_Psychological.pdf
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-becker/supreme-court-american-sociological-association-gay-parents_b_2783523.html

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 13:37:23 2017 No.10027448 >>10027423 The notes on both of the images refutes the arguments given in this paper.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 13:40:51 2017 No.10027460 >>10027401 >>10027409 You got actual links for this stuff? The second image is just what some dude put together in Excel.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 13:42:52 2017 No.10027472 He's an insecure pseudo-intellectual with a hugely inflated ego.

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 13:45:54 2017 No.10027487

>>10027460
Here are some options, though you may have to pay if you're not a student or something. If not you can try looking online some more.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0049089X12000610
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/231224139_How_different_are_the_adult_children_of_parents_who_have_same-sex_relationships_Findings_from_the_New_Family_Structures_Study

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 13:46:07 2017 No.10027488 >all these people confusing liberals for leftists kek >>10019966 Welfare was literally created to keep socialists from obtaining power

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 13:50:15 2017 No.10027505 >>10027375 >deriving a causal link from correlation >not accounting for the degree of integration >Wikipedia link Disgusting

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 13:58:04 2017 No.10027535

>>10027448
No they dont.
I was taking a shower after posting those links and I wondered about your life. What sort of person saves old ancient infographs relating to discredited studies on gay marriage? Just in case you might have an opportunity to post them in an internet debate. Do you have a whole folder of that sort of thing? Is there a separate one for race? Do you sincerely believe in what they say or are you knowingly being disingenuous for some political purpose? Do you ever really sit back and take stock of your life?

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 14:02:19 2017 No.10027550

>>10027409
>/pol/lacks can't into causality vs correlation and don't even control or account for SES
>contains categories that aren't specific to parents e.g being touched by patent OR adult, recently in therapy
>a gay or bi parent is the same as being raised by gay parents
Stop anytime

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 14:04:08 2017 No.10027555 >>10024069 Wow! He quoted Leviticus! What an intellectual! gives reddit gold

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 16:17:20 2017 No.10028010 >>10027535 Yes, they do.

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 16:23:02 2017 No.10028024

>>10027550
I never claimed that it was causation.
Did you read the chart? The specific part isn't that they were gay or bisexual, but that they had "notorious same-sex relationships during the upbringing and not secret one night stands anytime." Single households fall under the single household category, for people of all sexualities. The two later categories for fathers and mothers are for the families that included those same-sex relationships. So either they were in a same-sex marriage, or one of the spouses was cheating.

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 16:25:17 2017 No.10028032
File: 49 KB, 662x625, 1493960368752.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>10019970
Wrongo dongo. Government involvement is a by product of poorly orchestrated non-capitalism. Capitalism is a way in which individuals exchange goods and services through mutual agreement. Fuck government silly

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 16:44:08 2017 No.10028081 File: 83 KB, 1200x490, 518c7ff2509ff367295df39bd129ac1c3436435756d25881a4b02299656373fe-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 16:45:37 2017 No.10028086 >>10028081 Kek.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 16:53:52 2017 No.10028124 >people still beliving in the culural marxism meme kek

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 16:57:43 2017 No.10028139

>>10028024
>a child is best raised by a man and a woman
>not causation

And "notorious" is a ridiculously nebulous and ill defined term, it's so broad it can mean anything. There could be a temporary separation for example, and then a short but longer than one night non-hetero relationship - and that could be notorious. And single non-hetero parents should be separated from heteros to show if it's really the sexuality of the parents, if that isn't done the "broken household" paragraph is wrong, since you can't say hetero broken households do better than non-hetero broken households if they're all grouped together. For fuck's sake, the degree of the spouse's involvement in the child's life isn't even accounted for. What a terrible study, and a terrible analysis.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 17:03:19 2017 No.10028162 >>10020143 Dismisses his ideas without ever listening to a lecture. Wishes the point he makes will be read, analyzed, critiqued, and accepted. Hypocrite

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 17:05:34 2017 No.10028171 >>10020182 Everybody attach a penny to the IRS forms. It won't go through their processors and will have to be done manually

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 17:09:01 2017 No.10028179 >>10020218 What >>10020203 means is that the power is dispersed through the chamber, into the barrel, propelling the rotating bullet, dispersing it into the head of a man crying over his raped, emaciated wife.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 17:23:28 2017 No.10028232 >>10027401 >>10027409 >the fucking texas study kek

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 17:28:03 2017 No.10028246 >>10019960 I like you. At least you're honest. Carry on.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 17:35:22 2017 No.10028266 >>10027401 >family received welfare growing up The first line is a giveaway. Obviously that is going to be strongly correlated with poverty, which is correlated with all kinds of other shitty stuff.

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 17:40:46 2017 No.10028278

>>10028139
From context, I believe notorious means that the relationship is public. (Not a gay husband secretly picking up guys at a gay bar every once in a while and never telling anyone.)
As I said, I never made claims about gay single parents. I haven't made any statement about that subject, and neither has the survey. It's fine to point out that the survey is missing that data, but the data for which you're asking is irrelevant since I never attempted to address single gay parents individually. The data already proves my point (heterosexual couples have the least problems raising children) on its own.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 15 17:42:06 2017 No.10028283 >>10028266 I agree, poverty is correlated with a lot of these problems. But it seems poverty is also more correlated with lesbian couples.

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 18:28:33 2017 No.10028432

>>10023191
I understand your point on Christians and LGBT acceptance, but most Americans just identify with Christianity. A lot of times that just means that they went to church as a child.
That being said, I don't know how any practicing Christian could be for homosexuality, since it is clearly stated as immoral in the Bible.

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 23:13:28 2017 No.10029458

>>10027256
Based on the two options provided, you may choose 'stupid', but as a Christian watching other Christians getting killed by Muslims, I most certainly support the war in the Middle East, even if that includes Israel's neighbours. Would you rather they be taken by the Islamists and we lose the one, small, friendly piece of land there is over there? With Israel, there's at least a point of land where troops can be stationed in preparation for an invasion. Without them, there's no point of putting troops in such preparation without immediately there being declared war. They're an ally that is quite valuable based on that alone, and Israel is at least one civilized and prosperous country in the Middle East.

>>10027335
I don't buy this. Cheap labour isn't good, it drives down wages, and as we've seen the influx of migrants also increases crime. Besides, look to what jobs that illegal Mexicans usually take. The right supports illegal immigration so that we can get cheaper oranges, cheaper jobs done on lawns, and more affordable maids? Really? I'm going to need more evidence if you're going to make the claim that the right supports illegal immigration as well. I don't think LEGAL immigration would allow for lower wages. Before the 60s, America demanded only the best of the best in terms of migrants. Educated, wealthy, and such, yet still around 30% of these higher-class immigrants ended up having to go home. That's the thing about Capitalism; equal opportunity, but that does not guarantee success for all. Capitalism takes greed, and makes it a force for good, because you do not succeed in a Capitalist society without improving on said society and offering services that are wanted. If the services you offer are unwanted, nobody will pay, and thus you fail, which is how it should be. I as a writer should only be successful if people WANT to read what I write. If they don't, then why should I make money from writing?

Anonymous Fri Sep 15 23:18:29 2017 No.10029472

>>10028432
I'm still in the process of learning about the Bible, could you provide some passages that are against homosexuality besides those in Leviticus in the Old Testament? To be honest, if there's nothing in the New Testament that speaks out against homosexuality, then the claim that the left often makes with Christianity seeing homosexuality as immoral is unfounded as fuck. It's hard to see Jesus as a gay basher, He's such a bloody hippy.

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 00:35:52 2017 No.10029752

do u think peterson is backed by the cia? surely our intelligence services are aware the japanese psyops have been turning our men into manchildren, and since he's canadian they can fund him without violating their charter not to interfere directly in america

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 00:37:12 2017 No.10029756
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>>10019933
The obsessive hatred, bordering on psychosis, against products — i.e. against man-made objects — seems to be the hallmark of the pseudo-intellectual today. Hatred of consumption, a problem which no sane, healthy person has ever had. As if food and clothes, as if eating or dressing were bad. Such is the pseudo-intellectual's craving to appear to be raging at something, that he will rage at life's basic necessitities if need be.

The "consumer society" should have been called the "slave society", since there's nothing wrong with consuming, it is indeed the basis, the prerequisite, of all growth. Marx was at least healthy in focusing on production; Baudrillard's obsession with consumption is neurotic. Why not reduce it to zero and die of thirst in a few days, you fucking nihilistic little prick? Better yet just stop breathing; oxygen too is something that we consume.

What is "capital"? It is simply another word for money, which is a medium that facilitates exchange. Capitalism, then, is merely a state of things in which individuals are able, and allowed, to enter into exchange. That's all it is. Capitalism = Exchange. And since it is impossible for any culture and civilization at all to exist without exchange (indeed exchange is the number one prerequisite for civilization, with language itself understood as a form of exchange, the exchange of feelings), we might as well say that Capitalism = Civilization. To be against capitalism, then, means to be against civilization — which is par for the course for the kind of subhuman dreck which perpetually champions this nauseating, decadent notion. Just take a good look at them and you'll see.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 00:40:04 2017 No.10029763 >>10029756 whining about "consumerism" is such bullshit, sorry but the iphone x is rad as fuck, can't wait to order on day one >inb4 bunch of rustled android fags who have to use a 200 dollar ghetto phone rage out

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 01:07:51 2017 No.10029853 >>10022714 > cultural marxism and the marxist subversion when will this memery end

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 01:10:03 2017 No.10029861 File: 253 KB, 861x1200, DJugxJvXoAEG5Yt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Cosmopolitan 1917

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 01:11:06 2017 No.10029864 File: 236 KB, 870x1200, DJugxbWXoAAn3UI.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10029861 Cosmopolitan 2017

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 01:38:32 2017 No.10029955 >>10029861 >>10029864 Both look full of ideology senpai

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 03:22:22 2017 No.10030155

>>10028278
If that's true, then that can mean any duration and it's pretty shit.

If the problem is the sexuality of the parents a gay parent should have more trouble than a straight parent. The retardrd image says non-hetero broken households produce worse children, implying the issue is the sexuality rather than a lack of traits of the other sex in non-hetero couples.
No, that's not how science works, literally read any book. All you've established is the children of heterosexual couples do better (though many of the aspects of better that would be useful aren't included). You can't then turn into a causal link (hetero couples have the least problems raising children) without accounting for confounding variables, and you are so far from doing that it's laughable. And that's not even the right causal link, since they could have the most problems and be best at dealing with them, for example

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 03:39:37 2017 No.10030191 >>10020584 >I can't stand how people are parroting JP's beliefs! >literally screenshots someone else's words and presents them

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 03:45:15 2017 No.10030201 Communists must take it literally and share a single brain between themselves to have this level of intelligence.

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 03:45:56 2017 No.10030202

>>10019966
This. The statistics are clear, welfare destroyed the black family and to a lesser extent the latino and white family. It turned single motherhood into a possibility. There's no going back now but you pseudo-intellectuals still blame it on capitalism.

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 03:49:21 2017 No.10030209

>>10030202
Also, why do you retards speak as if Peterson hasn't identified a source? Mainly marxist intellectuals that seriously pushed ideas of free-love, moral relativism and other destructive ideas? /lit/, your natural contrarianism plus a little encouragement from your professors got you into the marxist mindset, it is pathetic to blame everything on capitalism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 03:51:18 2017 No.10030213 >>10029472 Paul's letters talk about sexual morality, including homosexuality.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 04:03:58 2017 No.10030235 File: 33 KB, 660x230, science&suicide.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10030202 >The statistics are clear, welfare destroyed the black family and to a lesser extent the latino and white family. look at these perfectly clear statistics

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 04:05:13 2017 No.10030238 >>10030235 now that is an interesting statistic

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 04:06:22 2017 No.10030243 >>10030235 except we can give a very good reason why the correlations make sense in the case of welfare

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 04:06:44 2017 No.10030244 >>10030209 i thought it was the postmodernists?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 04:06:55 2017 No.10030245 >>10030235 prove this chart wrong (you cant)

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 04:08:17 2017 No.10030250 >>10030244 Yes, they were also marxist.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 04:09:06 2017 No.10030253 >>10030250 but they're generally two different things?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 04:34:27 2017 No.10030292 >>10029756 To be honest, I'm the first to bitch against consumption. But unlike leftists "intellectuals" I'm mainly bitching against it as opposed to investment and future consumption vs present consumption. Muh low time preference.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 04:38:11 2017 No.10030300 >>10030243 no, you can give a reason that fits your ideology so can the other side whether it's the truth or not is a different thing

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 04:38:56 2017 No.10030303

>>10027270
As far as healthcare goes, are you trying to suggest that the left is more individualistic?
Abortion and contraception were banned on grounds of sexuality and family building, not as health problems.
Besides, abortion and contraception are not really health related issues. You are talking as if pregnancy was a disease.
>inb4 muh 0.001% of abortions done for health reasons

>>	Satan !ErY2TknG0w Sat Sep 16 04:54:26 2017 No.10030334 File: 101 KB, 640x640, thinking-emoji.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10020189 Wait... Doesn't that make them "reactionary" if they are going against previously established culture?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 04:59:16 2017 No.10030341 >>10021894 Pure coincidence.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 05:02:12 2017 No.10030349 >>10020189 the simple explanation is that you're a retard who crumbles when confronted with even a mildly complex thought

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 05:07:16 2017 No.10030355

>>10029756
Oversimplification is the sign of a truly retarded or dishonest thinker. Accumulating commodities and seeing it as the end of a truly happy life - which is the basis of consumerism - is not the same thing as consuming in order to sustain you need.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 05:13:47 2017 No.10030375 File: 11 KB, 207x200, 1504727483349.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10020259 >fascism is not a reaction against capitalism. it's tricking the masses into supporting it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 05:15:52 2017 No.10030379 >>10030213 >the personal opinion of a non-God individual defines Christian doctrine

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 05:22:44 2017 No.10030391

>>10030303
Not in all aspects of health care since the right (in the US) generally espouses a regressive laissez-faire approach to health care unlike the overwhelming majority of the developed world, but for components of health care such as contraception and abortion, the individualism is clear.

Babies are very physically demanding, to suggest contraception isn't health related is just wrong since pregnancies have such a detrimental effect on your health. Same goes for abortion desu

>a genetically different and foreign entity sucking up nutrients and modifying your metabolism and hormonal makeup to suit its own needs is not a disease
It's literally an infection and the immune system responds to it as such

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 05:24:27 2017 No.10030394 >>10030379 God gives redemption, religion is "man-made", even though inspired. In short, yes, the apostles define Christian doctrine.

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 05:27:54 2017 No.10030407

>>10030394
>a religion defined by the incarnation of God on earth
>man-made

If it's inspired that doesn't mean everything they say is true or that what they say js what God wants rather than what they think themselves, so putting the apostles' words on the same level or even close to the same level as Christ's is silly.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 05:35:39 2017 No.10030441 >>10020099 >Greek golden age; independent city states, free trade, ritualised warfare You have some reading to do, anon. Regarding Solon's laws and his sharecropping system (σεισάχθεια).

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 05:36:56 2017 No.10030442 >>10030300 It's an evolutionary reason and economical reason. So I guess the ideology is biology and economics? I'm fine with that.

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 05:42:04 2017 No.10030452

>>10030391
>regressive
>laissez-faire
Of course, can't risk the plebs having property.
The argument rests entirely on interpreting pregnancy as a disease. By the same token of being physically demanding, every activity becomes healthcare. If that was about pain in pregnancy, any relief of it would be forbidden. Health has nothing to do with the ban on abortion. As I already said, the proportion of abortions made due to health concerns is very low.
I'm all for abortion btw.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 05:54:12 2017 No.10030480 >>10030407 God is not religion. In the kingdom of heaven, there is no religion because we see God as he is and without the veils of belief. The respect of the apostles is also the shield against heresy.

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 05:56:05 2017 No.10030491

>>10030442
it's the ideology that presupposes all government assistance (when the subject is a poor individual) or meddling (when the subject is a "captain of industry") is bad and thus when presented with a problem asks only one question - "did they at any point receive money/had meddling from the government?" - and burrows around for the positive answer on which all the problems can then be affixed

that's why you didn't mention mas incarceration, the drug war, systemic racism and myriad other problems that I've probably never even heard about - because you have a one-track mind

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 05:56:19 2017 No.10030492 File: 244 KB, 1846x1212, 1467133154865.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10030442 Pure ideology.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 05:57:23 2017 No.10030494 >>10030491 >because you have a one-track mind to be fair, probably because you also don't consider them problems or think they don't exist

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 06:00:31 2017 No.10030504

>>10030452
?
How is property relevant to the laissez-faire approach of the US right to health care?

I don't see how everything becomes health care, give an example of a thing you think becomes health care?
For more serious and specific health concerns, it's low. But the negative impact on health is a fact of pregnancy for all pregnancies

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 06:10:43 2017 No.10030532

>>10030480
Christianity is doing what God wants you to do and what he tells you to do and reaping the benefits, primarily. So if you're not doing what God actually wants you to do and hence not actually strengthening your relationship with God, that's the real heresy

>if I respect the people who came up with these ideas even though I don't know these ideas are true then I can call any ideas that aren't these ideas heresy so despite all I have is uncertainty of what God actually wills, at least I have a consistent set of ideas, which is nice at least
This is your brain on mainstream Christianity

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 06:18:52 2017 No.10030562 >>10030532 >Christianity is doing what God wants you to do and what he tells you to do and reaping the benefits, primarily. >mainstream Christianity this is the prosperity gospel and all that shit, #NotAllChristians

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 06:24:14 2017 No.10030574 >>10030562 By benefits I don't just mean material benefits, I mean a stronger relationship with God as well. what else is Christianity?

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 06:33:17 2017 No.10030591

>>10019933
Late to the party but oh well.. Hey, look it's one of those threads where people claim corporatism and Keynesian economics are capitalism. I mean.. how fucking economically illiterate do you have to be to equate what we currently happen to have with Capitalism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 06:36:17 2017 No.10030598 >>10030574 >what else is Christianity? Being a good boy and doing what you're told.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 06:44:07 2017 No.10030607 >>10030591 "not real capitalism"

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 07:09:32 2017 No.10030658

>>10030607
>central banking
>centralized monetary policy
>tax exemptions granted
>tax evasion rampant and largely no efforts of battling it
>massive regulations and restrictions on the economy
>wealth redistribution through taxation
>losses are socialized through bailouts
>subsidies
Capitalism indeed.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 07:21:15 2017 No.10030686 >>10030658 the same can be said about any socialist or communist state ever

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 07:30:53 2017 No.10030699

>>10030686
No it can't. The "not absolute communism/socialism" argument simply wouldn't work because in such cases they were actually continually progressing towards that, where as what has been happening for the last decades is the further distancing from what Capitalism is.

That's like saying Venezuela is a Capitalist state because the concept of private property still exists. That's obviously false since private property rights are not only not protected by the Venezuelan government, but even violated by it in the effort towards achieving complete Socialism. What is the meaning of private property within Venezuela when the Government itself is not willing to respect and protect it?

Also, merely by pointing out that there has been no "absolute Communism/Socialism" that still doesn't discredit the fact that they've been proven not to work. If partial (but still to a very large extent) implementation of a policy leads to disaster then what is the argument that going through with it all the way will somehow yield a different outcome to its partial implementation?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 07:33:10 2017 No.10030705 File: 21 KB, 465x316, images (71).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10030235 Why only those suicide methods? Eh?

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 07:39:54 2017 No.10030724

>>10030699
this whole discussion is meaningless since you can twist the situation any way you want
all economies can be interpreted as being partially capitalist and partially socialist if you want to so when it fits your narrative you can say it failed because it's only partially capitalist and when it doesn't you can say "well we've seen what happens when even a part is implemented let's not do it again"

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 07:40:57 2017 No.10030727 >>10030705 probably because it makes the numbers work >Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 07:48:18 2017 No.10030751 File: 33 KB, 660x371, _89046968_89046967.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10030727 A credible theory, Watson. Credible indeed...

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 07:53:54 2017 No.10030770 >>10030724 The whole discussion is meaningless only when we fail to understand the meaning of terms like capitalism so as to apply them to the modern day United States. The Federal Reserve? Capitalism?

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 07:55:21 2017 No.10030775

>>10030724
No, it can't. I believe you can define whether an economy is "loosely" socialist or capitalist based on how close it is to either socialism or capitalism, as well as the direction it is heading towards. As I said, I don't define Venezuela as socialist exclusively on the basis that it is a largely centralized economy, but also on the fact that it "discourages" Capitalism by violating private property rights, which happen to be fundamental to Capitalism's existence.

And uhh.. how isn't "it's shit because no further implementation of Capitalism has been made" a valid argument? Off the top of my head, you can simply compare World maps highlighting the Human Development Index and the Economic Freedom of each country. The only exceptions you'll find to the correlation between the two are Centralized Economies that happen to be swimming in oil, which even those are vulnerable, as Venezuela's case proves.

Keynes' theory it quite literally a leftist perversion of Capitalism. Capitalism may be about private property, which he maintains, but it's also about profit/loss and the powers of supply/demand, which he completely distorts by advocating for Government involvement into the market. I don't get how you can deny the correlation between Human Development and Economic freedom to be honest.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 08:13:28 2017 No.10030824 File: 24 KB, 397x296, 1499968080554.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10019933 capitalism is simply unmolested trade

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 08:14:22 2017 No.10030826 >>10030775 The direction is irrelevant, where the economy goes doesn't matter only where it is and the results of where it is

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 08:15:23 2017 No.10030831 >>10030824 >anarcho-capitalism >>>/Somalia/

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 08:27:27 2017 No.10030861

>>10030826
Of course it matters, stop being retarded. Again, Venezuela is a prime example of how an economy may be partially Capitalist still, but "Capitalist activity" is less likely to happen when compared to a more Capitalistic economy.

I mean.. it's simple man. Assume two hypothetical countries which find themselves with identical economies. One country's Government has expressed a commitment to protecting private property, as well as deregulating its economy and lowering taxation in the future, and perhaps that is also backed up by similar actions that it made in the past. Now the other country's Government has expressed its belief in Socialism and its wish to abolish private ownership of the means of production while it has also in the past violated private property rights. Now assume you're an investor who has a choice between investing in one country or the other, and let's say that if things were to remain as they are (which they won't), without any future involvement of Government in the economy, both investments would be equally profitable. Which country do you, as a private investor, choose to invest in?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 08:33:48 2017 No.10030877 >>10030861 >the decision an investor would make is relevant to determining whether something is a "real" form of an economic system

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 08:42:02 2017 No.10030901

>>10030877
Yes, the prevalence of Capitalist activity, which is obviously largely affected by Government policy as well as its stated plan for the economy, is actually a factor in determining the degree to which an economy is Capitalist. And that's because the underlying cause for the discouragement of capitalist activity is Anti-Capitalist Government policy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 10:41:58 2017 No.10031194 >>10030901 >war occurs, causing investors to be less active and remove their investments and place them in safer countries >country suddenly becomes more communist

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 10:44:33 2017 No.10031201 File: 1.27 MB, 971x733, 1499934054046.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 13:54:46 2017 No.10031775 >>10030235 >implying suicide is a bad thing

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 14:13:03 2017 No.10031835

>>10031194
Let's see for how long you can keep misrepresenting what I'm saying. You practically deleted the last line of my last response. It is the discouragement of capitalist activity CAUSED BY THAT COUNTRY'S GOVERNMENT implementation of anti-Capitalist policy or promise of implementation of anti-Capitalist policy (especially if there have been previous such implementations in the past, increasing the threat of such promises coming into fruition) that play a role in loosely characterizing an economy as either Socialist or Capitalist.

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 14:22:55 2017 No.10031871 >>10031835 The point was war can drastically decrease capitalist activity despite a lack of government anti-capitalist policy. Your analysis of the causes and driving forces of capitalist activity is flawed

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 14:35:50 2017 No.10031905

>>10031871
But my comment about the discouragement and reduction of capitalist activity was nested within the over-arching example of Venezuela, since one could, based entirely on their motives, either characterize it as a Capitalist or Socialist economy. I simply made the case that if you have to go by the Socialist/Capitalist dichotomy then it makes sense to call Venezuela a Socialist economy, despite not having abolished all private ownership of the means of production, and that the Government's intentions/past actions play a role in determining what to call a case such as Venezuela.

I never made the case that only Anti-Capitalist Government policy is what could discourage capitalist activity, it was all nested within that one example. I also comprehend how if you don't allow for some wiggle room in the definitions, then nothing could ever be called true capitalism or true socialism/communism, but at the same time recognize that being this autistic about it is simply not productive. But despite allowing for some wiggle room in the definition, the modern Keynesian perversion of Capitalism can hardly be called Capitalism or have most of what it has caused be associated as flaws of what Capitalism truly is.

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 14:45:08 2017 No.10031928

>>10031905
You could only characterise how communist and how capitalist an economy is by the legislation that is actually active. The planned actions can be used to plot a course for where the economy will go to along that economic spectrum, but at a point in time the nature of the economy is determined by the actual traits of the economy at that time, not words and thoughts

Nothing that actually exists now can be called or classified as "true" capitalism or communism, it's a spectrum. But you seem to be conflating anarchocapitalism and capitalism, which is silly because capitalism is just based on the private ownership of property and the means of production, and the use of it to generate profit. The "ree statists interfering with the market by following Keynesian economics so it's not true capitalism " autism is only relevant if the only sense of capitalism was anarchocapitalism. But it's not. Of course, some of the flaws can be attributed to the interference of the state, when it takes actions that are poorly thought out, financially motivated and with little oversight. But some can't be.

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 15:09:33 2017 No.10031989

>>10031928
Capitalism is more than private ownership of property and the means of production, as well as their use for generating profit. What happened to profit/loss and their consequences, or market forces? Once those are distorted through Government intervention then that starts becoming a perversion of what Capitalism is. And AnarchoCapitalism is "true" Capitalism, because the state could be interpreted as forcing a monopoly on the markets of the protection of private property or enforcement/dictation of law. Taxation also obviously perverts profits/losses or the market forces of supply/demand. The only way taxation can stop interfering is through a flat tax applied on everything and everyone, but even then, it's still theft.

>some of the flaws can be attributed to the interference of the state, when it takes actions that are poorly thought out, financially motivated and with little oversight.
But there exists no reason for intervention into the economy, and even if there was there exist no incentives (or rather fewer incentives and those that do exist are weaker when compared to the matter being handled by the market) for the Government to do a proper job in its intervention of the economy. Less and weaker incentives obviously negatively impact the likelihood that the Government will do a proper job (or better than the market).

>The planned actions can be used to plot a course for where the economy will go to along that economic spectrum
When such planned action obviously affects supply and demand why should it not be a factor?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 15:26:19 2017 No.10032038 >>10031989 >there exists no reason for intervention into the economy you live in a fantasy world

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 15:29:43 2017 No.10032052 >>10032038 >Governments are benevolent fantasy world

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 16 15:32:45 2017 No.10032063 >>10032052 >lol you think governments are benevolent another fantasy world you live in, hope the daily commute from one to the other isn't too harsh on you

Anonymous Sat Sep 16 15:34:33 2017 No.10032069

>>10032038
>implying demand as wielded by the people, the freedom of choice and economic boycott are not sufficient to properly regulate the market
>implying in the event that the people fail to realize the need for exercising their "regulatory powers" over the market mentioned above, or don't do so quickly enough, shouldn't then face the consequences of their failure to do so.

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/lit/ - Literature