/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.8565782]

why is postmodern literature great but postmodern architecture shit?

[Anonymous No.8565803]

they are both shit

[Anonymous No.8565806]

>>8565782
Communism does that.
It's all about making functionality and cost-efficiency more important than looks and aesthetic innovation.

[Anonymous No.8565819]

Pomo architecture is great though. Pomo visual art is the shitty thing. Like performance art. Ugh I went to this arts festival, and this happening where you tuned your cell phone or iPod to the same frequency, and the broadcaster gave you a bunch of directions to do things through the city. It could have been cool if it were a dérive, but instead it felt like a kindergarten activity. LAME

[Anonymous No.8565891]

>>8565806
postmodern is not communist, youre thinking of modern, where even the soviet tier modern is better than any postmodern piece of shit

mid century modern is greatest architectural style

>>8565803
pleb or fag

>>8565819
how, irony is cool in lit but not in architecture

[Anonymous No.8565911]

>>8565891

Irony is a fiction of meaning and its layering. Remind me again why anyone gives a fuck about the meaning of the design of a building again. I think you're making a category error. Irony May Be important in lit pomo, but doesn't have to be for arch pomo.

[Anonymous No.8565925]

>>8565911

Function, not fiction.

[Anonymous No.8565939]

>>8565911
not saying its necessary, it honestly seems like the designs of some pomo buildings are just to spite modern arch and look shitty.

[Anonymous No.8565940]

I'm going to ignore your assessment of postmodern literature.

Postmodern architecture is shit because of the conceit at the heart of postmodernism--that everything is relative, there is no truth, no meaning, no good. This may very well be a logically defensible position. But regardless, we must consider the ramifications. Form and beauty has no value. The material is all that is valued. Let's build not to honor God's beauty, or the greatness of our civilization--let us build to sell office space as profitably as possible.

In less than a century we managed to reject thousands of years' worth of values and we still don't understand the consequences. We're fucked, and we deserve it.

[Anonymous No.8565948]

>>8565940
>form and beauty has no value

hmmmmmmm ok den

[Anonymous No.8566302]

>>8565782
For a movement that shuns great narratives they sure have a lot of words to justify their own existence.

In PoMo the work itself is worthless, it is the statement behind it what matters. And so happens with works previous to PoMo, what I think about something is more inportant than that something. The exact opposite to dialectical materialism, but holds itself as materialism of the dialectic.
Confused? That's life.
That's what PoMo's actually believe. So instead of trying to find truth or solace in art, they use art as gravel to pave their path to the grave, bringing into it the same vagueness and platitudes found in their non-artistic expression. Bores is the prime example of this, a man who made a career of derivative prose tweaking any meaning he found anywhere.

As to architecture, while it is a form of art, it is arguably one much more constrained by physicial limits and technical know-how, which makes it much less creative than film, sculpture or literature, inasmuch as a building needs to be functional while a novel needn't.

TL;DR lel so randum doesn't work in architecture, because it can't be tweaked by language.

[Anonymous No.8566477]

>>8565940
>thousands of years' worth of values

[Anonymous No.8566481]

Stop getting angry over things that literally don't matter and you don't care about at all.

[Anonymous No.8566494]

>>8565782
fancy writing does not cost more than plain writing

[Anonymous No.8566497]

>>8565819
>Pomo architecture is great though

[Anonymous No.8566501]

>>8565819
>Pomo architecture is great though
stab your eyes out

[Anonymous No.8566502]

>>8566497
That looks like some Lebbeus Woods concept.

That's amazing, actually.

[Anonymous No.8566503]

>>8565819
>Pomo architecture is great though
>ugh
shoot yourself

[Anonymous No.8566506]

>why is postmodern literature great but postmodern architecture shit?

Is it? Or are you just judging the whole of postmodern literature on a few high quality works such as Pychon and ignoring the wealth of experimental dross. And is architecture so bad or are you basing this on a few ugly eyesores and ignoring just how much all modern architecture is influenced by postmodern ideas.

[Anonymous No.8566508]

High School students who don't know better bitching about work they hardly understand in the time they're not spending talking about how "landscapes" are actually better than all art in the land century.;

This is /lit/ now.

[Anonymous No.8566511]

>>8566506
>Is it?
It is

[Anonymous No.8566512]

>>8565940
>-let us build to sell office space as profitably as possible.
you are thinking about something else
>god
some dick riding god for everything.
>In less than a century we managed to reject thousands of years' worth of values and we still don't understand the consequences. We're fucked, and we deserve it.
I did not reject shit and I deserve more.

[Anonymous No.8566516]

>>8565782
>postmodern literature
>great

[Anonymous No.8566517]

>>8566516
You don't read

[Anonymous No.8566518]

>>8565782
why is IU bae?

[Anonymous No.8566524]

>>8566502
it looks like an ugly combo of old and "new" with new being unpolished and basically looking like part of the fortress of solitude growing out in the city. There is no Gothic beauty, no efficient use of space or geometry, only a mind of a stupid child

[Anonymous No.8566529]

>>8566524
>>it looks like an ugly combo of old and "new" with new being unpolished and basically looking like part of the fortress of solitude growing out in the city.

That's good and lauded, actually. Read more of war and architecture.

[Anonymous No.8566532]

>>8565782
does those kpop artist have all plastic surgery?

[Anonymous No.8566537]

>>8566532
No but all of them have plastic surgery.

[Anonymous No.8566538]

>>8566517
I read quite a lot, actually.

[Anonymous No.8566540]

>>8565803
/thread

[Anonymous No.8566542]

>>8566537
All of you need plastic surgery

[Anonymous No.8566548]

>why is postmodern literature great but postmodern architecture shit?
pomo architecture isn't great but it's not that bad either. It's better than most modern shit anyway (though there is some based modern architectrue)


>>8565806
>communism
>postmodern

[Anonymous No.8566554]

>>8566540
I think you are actually just really stupid.

[Anonymous No.8566564]

>>8566532
some of them do. its not really a problem unless you plan on having kids with them
>>8566529
this is the epitome of being thematically tryhard. buildings are meant to mix with your life organically while adding some beauty to it

[Anonymous No.8566567]

>>8565940
>. Form and beauty has no value.
Nobody says that

>The material is all that is valued.
Nobody says that

>Let's build not to honor God's beauty, or the greatness of our civilization--let us build to sell office space as profitably as possible.
Nobody says that.

Do you even know what postmodern architecture is?

[Anonymous No.8566572]

>>8566564
>this is the epitome of being thematically tryhard

The fact you haven''t heard of Lebbeus basically tells me all I need to know about the topic you're criticizing. Especially in architecture in general no less.

[Anonymous No.8566584]

>>8566572
Im saying you have shit taste and no one really wants to live in pseudo Sci-Fi architecture

[Anonymous No.8566585]

This generation here wants to experiment and question as little as possible. It's infuriating.

[Anonymous No.8566589]

>>8566584
>>Im saying you have shit taste and no one really wants to live in pseudo Sci-Fi architecture

And I'm saying that Woods is an esteemed architect and your boring suburbanite garbo that is shat on by everyone.

[Anonymous No.8566595]

This is good and praised by basically everyone.

[Anonymous No.8566598]

This is not

[Anonymous No.8566601]

>>8566589
>appeal to authority
>argumentum ad populum (imagined one at that)
typical artfag move. Do you also agree with book critics on everything?

[Anonymous No.8566604]

>>8566601
>typical artfag move

Don't bring logical fallacy into a debate you started that questioned the merits of postmodern architecture in toto, when the vast majority educated on the subject have the opposite opinion.

I am sorry you didn't get the circlejerk you wanted.

[Anonymous No.8566605]

>>8566601
>Do you also agree with book critics on everything?
of course

[Anonymous No.8566606]

>>8566595
>>8566598
>art
show me constriction, show me square cube law, show me weather and earthquake tests.
note how one is just a drawing while another not only exists but is also in use

[Anonymous No.8566607]

Urban Sprawl Good, Shopping Mall Good

Weird Bad!

Weird Bad!

[Anonymous No.8566609]

>>8566604
yeah that is what gender studies majors believe about their own shit. sorry reality is not as kind and up its own ass as your eco chamber

[Anonymous No.8566611]

>>8566595

[Anonymous No.8566612]

>>8566609
>gender studies
>shit

[Anonymous No.8566614]

>>8566606
>show me constriction, show me square cube law, show me weather and earthquake tests.

Most of this was conceptualized as built to tributes to various wars across the 20th century, especially World War II. The prime focus being Europe.

Europe is not known for earth quakes. As for the rest, it all checks out.

He was, an architect.

>>8566609
So you're comparing an esteemed architect to gender studies majors.

You really did want a circle jerk didn't you

[Anonymous No.8566618]

>This is horrible! Get this weird shit out of here! I don't like it! It's weird!
>But this....holy....I want more.....

[Anonymous No.8566619]

>>8566585
Well, they are questioning post-modernism and you're getting butt-hurt. You are infuriating and nothing in your defense will cgange my opinipn. After all nothing matters and everything is relative, right?

[Anonymous No.8566623]

>>8566619
>Well, they are questioning post-modernism and you're getting butt-hurt

I'm preventing the billionth circle jerk. Sue me you cock nosed bitch

[Anonymous No.8566627]

This is artful and tasteful, actually

[Anonymous No.8566633]

>>8566604
>Don't bring logical fallacy into a debate
>the vast majority
>opinion
A)Debates are logical. Arguments are not. If you want the latter more than the former let me tell you that your mother enjoys the company of pigs and was inseminated by several which led to the abortions that were then stitched together and now is you.
B) That's an ad verecundiam and an ad populum at the same time. Again. Wow.
C) Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Except of course those who do not agree with you.

Grow the fuck up, little tunt.

[Anonymous No.8566636]

>>8566633
>A)Debates are logical. Arguments are not. If you want the latter more than the former let me tell you that your mother enjoys the company of pigs and was inseminated by several which led to the abortions that were then stitched together and now is you.

Woah...that was mean....

>That's an ad verecundiam and an ad populum at the same time. Again. Wow.

Oh no.........

>Everyone is entitled to an opinion

If your opinion is that the norm is fine and urban sprawl is good try not being an idiot

>Grow the fuck up, little tunt.

Oh my....I'm a little tunt....

[Anonymous No.8566638]

>>8566623
You're preventing a debate by mocking the original statement without rebuking anything. You baby, you are falling in a circlejerk with yourself.
>But a single point cant be a circle
If you look close enough, yes. And I am looking at you, boy.

[Anonymous No.8566641]

>>8566618
it would be nice if they were taller but yes human physiology does not want jagged angles or inhabited monuments, it wants comfy and beautiful
>going for suburbs
you may as well post Brazilian shacks. its like apples an oranges, hell your "weird" would run out of space in seconds and look even more ugly when put among similar buildings. seriously Photoshop them together and tell me looking at it does not give you a head ache

[Anonymous No.8566642]

>>8565806
>functionality and cost-efficiency
>describing communism not capitalism
Are you fucking retarded?

[Anonymous No.8566645]

>>8566638
>You're preventing a debate by mocking the original statement without rebuking anything.

I am preventing the billionth circle jerk of high school sophmores with little to no understanding of art circle jerking about how much art sucks on a board they think is for artful discussion.

Their opinions don't have merit, never did, never will, so I am here. to shit on you.

[Anonymous No.8566648]

>>8566641
>it would be nice if they were taller but yes human physiology does not want jagged angles or inhabited monuments, it wants comfy and beautiful

That's the point. It's about war, it's supposed to be jagged. It's hypothetical monuments to violence that should have been prevented both past and future and present.

[Anonymous No.8566649]

>>8566645
>architecture
>art that's literally forced upon people
>kek they should git gud and read some aesthetic theory

[Anonymous No.8566650]

this

[Anonymous No.8566653]

>>8566618
Architecture is not city planning. Argument or hint thereof discarded.

>>8566636
I am an idiot for having an opinion different from yours?

Oh, and for the record, my contributions to this thread are the ones related to literature, not to architecture. I am interested in seeing how incapable for reason you are. Keep on defending style vs practicality or beauty.

[Anonymous No.8566656]

>>8566649
How is urban sprawl not what you just fucking described

[Anonymous No.8566657]

>>8566650
and this

[Anonymous No.8566658]

>>8566653
>>I am an idiot for having an opinion different from yours?

Your argument gets laughed at within the bounds of Princeton so yeah, you kind of are an idiot.

[Anonymous No.8566659]

>>8566657
don't look better than this and are not as useful/efficient

[Anonymous No.8566670]

>>8566648
are you retarded? yes that is the point but you don't want that point in your daily life, you want utility at minimum or to at best be uplifted. would you want to live in lenin's mausoleum? best buildings are the ones that combine their beauty and message with peoples daily life instead of being too self important, especially when often there is no message.

[Anonymous No.8566672]

And what is my opinion, exactly?

>>8566658
>Your argument is laughed at in a very specific place
And your ad verecundiams are laughed at by its sheer repetition by anybody intelligent enough to see them, so I guess we're even.

Seriously, not everybody wants a windows, but I am not one to call Linux or Mac users stupid for having different preferences.

[Anonymous No.8566674]

>>8566648
Do you slobber as much over Jodorowsky's Dune?

[Anonymous No.8566675]

Michael Graves; Team Disney Building; Burbank, California; 1991.

[Anonymous No.8566676]

M>>8566672
The very specific place is an Ivy League Unicersity you cannot hope to argue with.

Quit bringing up fallacies on 4chan it's expected and it makes you look like a cunt

>>8566674
Why are you bringing up a failed movie into a debate over if architectural academia is evil and stupid or not.

God you teenagers really are fucking stupid

[Anonymous No.8566678]

>>8566649
>kek they should git gud and read some aesthetic theory
I know artfag that makes pictures where everyone looks like they have been decomposing in water. Im not sure if its intentional but she never notices how crap it looks and constantly goes on about how people should read more about art school instead of judging things with their aesthetics

[Anonymous No.8566680]

>>8566658
like I said, you will find that the real world does not take your shit as readily as your circlejerk buddies from school

[Anonymous No.8566681]

>>8566678
None of you have ever attended a class about pottery in community college why should you have the hubris to talk about it as if you know it by heart?

[Anonymous No.8566682]

>>8566680
You don't belong in the real world either. You're a social outcast

[Anonymous No.8566684]

>>8566681
The point is that architecture isn't something you choose yourself to view. It's the perhaps only art where populism is the right way to go.

[Anonymous No.8566685]

>>8566684
So basically you're defending the home owner's association

Why don't you take your shit off the floor and get out of my thread

[Anonymous No.8566689]

>>8566676
>Fallacies are expected in 4Chan and are therefore valid
I expect more from /lit/. YOU AND YOU ALONE are bringing down the level of discourse of this board via refusing to actually take part in a debate. You are shit and are staining this place with your turd fingers.
I'd rather look like a cunt tha be one, unlike you. You seem tp frolic in your own inconsistency in ignoring the fact that you're spouting not different, but the same ad verecundiam over and over, failing prey to not only logical flimsiness, but egotistical repetition.

You are the one preventing a debate. The fact that you're not a teenager is more saddening than enraging.

[Anonymous No.8566691]

>>8565891
Isn't socrealism and other totalitarian regimes architecture styles antimodernist? I remember reading something about Albert Speer and his "antimodernist" approach to architecture.

[Anonymous No.8566698]

>>8566689
You expected more from a thread where high school students circle jerk about their terrible opinions about art?

Well I suppose that does make sense considering who you are.

>You are the one preventing a debate

Then I've done my job

[Anonymous No.8566700]

>>8566685
I'm not an amercunt so I don't know what the home owner's association is.

>my thread

[Anonymous No.8566705]

>>8566681
class is for technical details like actual viability of the contract, not for judging it visually

[Anonymous No.8566706]

One is a building, the other one is a book? o-O

[Anonymous No.8566710]

>>8566700
Just because you aren't aware of it doesn't mean you don't have the same mind set of the cunts who exist within it.

Everything has to be a certain way and can't differ.

The difference between you and the people who bitch about their neighborhood going to the dogs and blaming artists is hair thin

And yes this is my thread

[Anonymous No.8566712]

>>8566705
I'm sure your high school has a very in depth analysis of the history of architectural art

[Anonymous No.8566714]

>>8566710
>Everything has to be a certain way and can't differ.
Yes, if you put idiotic words into my mouth I do come off as an idiot. Congratulations.

You can't own threads.

[Anonymous No.8566716]

>>8566700
its when a group of people own a home join an association and make group choices about how to use the budget in public property around their homes, how to keep their homes secure, how to make sure they are getting clean water,etc the basic point he is going for is that association can often place restrictions one what renovations individuals can and can not make because it may destroy the visual appeal of the house/neighborhood. I don't think anon has ever been in a home owner's association but chances are he would end up butthurt because his niche interests would not be accepted by the majority since most people would not want plane scraps on their front lawn(even in guilt ridden Germany)

[Anonymous No.8566718]

>postmodern literature great
>post modern
>great

A tleast postmodern architecture often actually involved a certain element of technology incorporated into the design, transference of energys, especially wind and the likes, I agree postmodern architecture is putrid, but no more than post modern lit, as the form has not changed (maybe the odd exception) but literature is its true form is not post modern, only the content, It is a weird comparison to make OP

[Anonymous No.8566719]

>>8566698
>Terrible opinions
That's your opinion.

>Stop disliking what I like!
>Then I've done my job
You poor, sad manbaby. You are doing the online equivalent of going to a high-school club and saying their opinions are stupid because they don't align 1:1 with academia, instead of letting them learn or even interchange ideas.

Fuck, Fuck, Fuck you in the cock holster you have for a mouth. Also, the fact that you didn't rebuke or reply to any of the other things I said in my post, which leads me to believe they are true.

Keep on being blissful. After all you are the most stupid person I've talked to this month.

[Anonymous No.8566720]

>>8566714
>Yes, if you put idiotic words into my mouth I do come off as an idiot. Congratulations

Subtext

>You can't own threads

I just did. This thread is owned by me now.

[Anonymous No.8566722]

>>8566719
>You are doing the online equivalent of going to a high-school club and saying their opinions are stupid because they don't align 1:1 with academi

Isn't that basically fact

Why are you challenging professionals on their jobs

You would know a lot about crying in high school clubs though

[Anonymous No.8566724]

>>8566710
>blaming artists is hair thin
>"artists"
if you want to do graffiti then buy some bricks,set them into wood and go nuts. If you want a display then buy the space. I don't see how your butthurt turned into a superiority complex

[Anonymous No.8566728]

>>8565803
fpbp

[Anonymous No.8566729]

>>8566720
>Subtext
So that's what we're playing?
>I'm into architecture because thinking of all those high buildings makes me forget my laughably small penis
^ is exactly what you said
>This thread is owned by me now.
Nu uh.

[Anonymous No.8566730]

>>8566724
Who brought up graffiti? Anyways it's far more tasteful than what you suggest society look like.

[Anonymous No.8566731]

>>8566729
I don't have a penis :^>

[Anonymous No.8566733]

>>8566698
>everyone who digress with me is high school student
I bet you don't even see how pathetic you are

[Anonymous No.8566737]

>>8566733
I didn't say that. Just most 4chan posters are high school students and it's obvious who is and who isn't

[Anonymous No.8566738]

>>8566731
Exactly.

[Anonymous No.8566739]

someone post modernist and post-modernist architectural masterpieces please

[Anonymous No.8566741]

>>8566739
Post urban sprawl

[Anonymous No.8566751]

>>8566739
Salmon colored shorts
air travel
richard bransons facial hair

[Anonymous No.8566753]

>>8566751
So basically people you stereotype as having more friends than you

[Anonymous No.8566761]

>>8566739

[Anonymous No.8566765]

>>8566739
.

[Anonymous No.8566766]

>>8566761
is that supposed to look like mcdonalds fries

[Anonymous No.8566768]

>>8566761
>>8566765
You're supposed to be making them seem ugly not bastions of interest in a sea of mediocrity

[Anonymous No.8566769]

>>8566739
21

[Anonymous No.8566774]

>>8566739
basically think every kickstarter project that thinks its being revolutionary by adding bottle openers and other random shit to everything, think that but architecture

[Anonymous No.8566775]

>>8566753
I guess if you want to look at it technically speaking people who wear salmon colord shorts tend to be in herds, I'd much rather a beer at the bar and some food than even bother with those kinda friends.... Remember, just coz you might have 5 faggots each whom have a 5th of a functional brain, does not mean as a group they equate to a single brain.... Now go rejoin your herd

[Anonymous No.8566776]

>>8566739

[Anonymous No.8566781]

>>8566766
have a curly fry

[Anonymous No.8566786]

>>8566775
You're so much smarter than everyone else

[Anonymous No.8566787]

>>8566768

[Anonymous No.8566793]

>>8566768
I think this was one of the first things posted on the net

[Anonymous No.8566794]

>>8566786
Fuck thanks bro I knew it Man I knew i was super smart with my cigarettes and mystery and Flask of whiskey that while burns my throat, I pretend to drink with vigor

[Anonymous No.8566798]

>>8566768
Here is a pencil version since you will bitch that forks look all the same. not how each pencil is different while one is just shit

[Anonymous No.8566801]

>>8566798
This is such a good picture you found on facebook

[Anonymous No.8566804]

>>8566793
Oh my god I got pwned

[Anonymous No.8566810]

>>8566801
>>8566804
and yet all the shitposting in the world won't make your tastes in architecture good.

[Anonymous No.8566814]

>>8566804
this is your architecture in human form

[Anonymous No.8566815]

>>8566810
They're actually academically predestined to be good and agreed upon with consensus that are good

You are some rando high school fuck from the youtube comments section for all I care and know

[Anonymous No.8566817]

>>8566722
I am not challenging thwm, I am challenging you to come up with anargument that doesn't boil down to a fallacy of authority, I.e., give your own opinion in a coherent, articulate manner.

[Anonymous No.8566819]

>>8566814
These are good post more

[Anonymous No.8566824]

stop cat fighting and post more pictures of interesting buildings

[Anonymous No.8566829]

>>8566817
Why do I have to come up with an argument to people who want to circle jerk about how much they hate art

Nah

[Anonymous No.8566831]

>>8566815
oh for fuck sake will you stop with the high school shit, its not cute and does not make you better then me. I have a fucking law degree but I don't throw it into peoples faces because it does not mater. you have no arguments other than "all my friends say its good."
>predestined
just when I think you have shown me the bottom of idiocy, you find a new level. Thank you for your hard work

[Anonymous No.8566838]

>>8566831
I will not stop with the high school shit

[Anonymous No.8566848]

>>8566829
>how much they hate art
just because they don't like Deconstructivism,Brutalism or Postmodern architecture does not mean they don't like artistic architecture in general. the same way people thinking you having a period on a canvas is not art does not mean they hate art

[Anonymous No.8566852]

>>8566838
*stamps feet*

[Anonymous No.8566853]

>>8566824
I ran out, do your part.

[Anonymous No.8567030]

Only architeture PhDs ITT.