/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12718597]

What should a black man have read in order to survive in a white world?
In the realm of politics - what should he read in order to protect himself and his interests?
In the realm of history - what should he read in order to know his roots, and understand the present and the future of his people?
In economics, in religion and philosophy, in all fields?

Black anon here, born in a super-white country, on a journey of self improvement.

[Anonymous No.12718602]

>>12718597
"How to go back to Africa"

[Anonymous No.12718603]

>>12718597
Trickbaby by Iceberg Slim

[Anonymous No.12718607]

Ellison's Invisible Man

[Anonymous No.12718612]

Half-black anon here. We should probably read some Sowell, that's all I can think of.

[Anonymous No.12718615]

>>12718607
Also H G Wells' The Invisible Man

[Anonymous No.12718616]

>>12718602
When will white Americans go back to Europe? They're a pest on the earth

[Anonymous No.12718619]

>>12718597
this is a jewish world anon, not a white world. Wanna hear the real truth? Read culture of critique. Whites don't care about you, while jews consider you nothing more than a slave monkey.

[Anonymous No.12718638]

>>12718616
>When will white Americans go back to Europe?
As a European - hopefully never.
>They're a pest on the earth
I agree. Nuke them all.

[Anonymous No.12718678]

>>12718597

'Othello', by Shakespeare.

>>12718616

I hope you enjoy 12 inches of yellow dick shoved down your rectum for the next millenium. The Chinese will show you just how kind the White man was in the treatment of his subjects.

[Anonymous No.12718682]

>>12718597
>roots
I love how African Americans find some affinity to all Africans. There are hundreds of unique cultures there and it's obvious that their ancestors weren't members of the successful tribes/civilisations because they were the ones kidnapping their ancestors shitty tribe to sell them into slavery.

[Anonymous No.12718688]

>>12718682
The Asante used be the shit tribe til the slave trade opened up. Just sayin

[Anonymous No.12718945]

>>12718597
If you think you're different to other men, then any rapper nigger book will inspire you.
If you think you're no different to other men, then start with the Greeks.

[Anonymous No.12718958]

>>12718678
This. The videos that come out of Chinese work places in Africa gives me hope for their future. To answer OP's question, I guess read Obama's book or maybe look and see if any of the Wayans published anything?

[Anonymous No.12718975]

>>12718616
True, they're almost as bad as niggers.

[Anonymous No.12718983]

>>12718597
What is the benefit of knowing your "roots" and arbitrarily identifying with a group of people?

[Niggers of color No.12718989]

Niggers of color

[Anonymous No.12718993]

>>12718597
Mbembe, Warren, Frank B Wilderson. Antiblackness/Afropessimism is the way to go. Afrofuturism may also be of interest.

[Anonymous No.12719004]

>>12718678
>12 inches
>Chinese

[Anonymous No.12719118]

I don't think most black people are capable of understanding white people because they're not as capable of thinking abstractly. A proof of this is the differences in language between Africa and the rest of the world. With a few exceptions, Africans didn't have words for the future and past tense until they were touched by Europeans. They could only really think in the present non abstract tense for most of their evolutionary history.

[Anonymous No.12719136]

>>12719118
>this is your brain on /pol/

[Anonymous No.12719146]

>>12718597
the exact same thing anyone reads
educated, thoughtful and well read are hardly a racial thing, its a culture unto its self that is indifferent to diversity - the self affirming meritocratic culture level, if you will.

[Anonymous No.12719149]

Just be polite and don't break the laws.

There y'go.

[Anonymous No.12719165]

depends. if you're lightskinned and from an upper class family then you should read Cory Booker's autobiography, it's a good instruction manual on how to gain political power as a minority in America

[Anonymous No.12719168]

>>12719136
This is an actual Reddit response. You're a mobile user and you took a screeshot as if I'm going to delete my post in shame.

[Anonymous No.12719171]

>>12719118
>>12719136
He is right about the language thing. Most African and south American tribal languages lack concrete concepts of time, this is a common feature of tropical hunter-gatherer societies.

There is no evidence indicating concepts of time are ingrained genetically. I prefer to think my ability to grasp the concept of time was not evolved into me based on the geolocation of my ancestors.

[Anonymous No.12719194]

>>12719171
>I prefer to think my ability to grasp the concept of time was not evolved into me based on (literally 100,000 winters) of my ancestors

[Anonymous No.12719196]

>>12719118
Plenty of studies show that "abstract thought" comes with literacy. Homer didn't have a sense of what we would call abstract thought. For example, non-literate people have no abstract geometry. There is no concept of "circle" without writing, only "wheel" or "dish."

[Anonymous No.12719198]

>>12719165
>Cory Booker
Fucking spooky how my mom actually owns that book.

[Anonymous No.12719210]

>>12719004
Yeah, if there are 6 of them

[Anonymous No.12719211]

>>12718597

start here

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langston_Hughes

as far as your more specific requests go

>general history
king leopold's ghost, by adam hoschild.
we wish to inform you that tomorrow we will be killed with our families, by phillip gourevitch
machete season, by jean hatzfeld
imperial reckoning, by caroline elkins

you will be better off, perhaps, asking /his/ for the rest. this board is largely populated by clinically retarded children.

[Anonymous No.12719214]

>>12719196
I'd be willing to say abstract thinking will develop among a people after they gain literacy but I don't think you can take an individual out of the jungle, teach them to read, and expect them philosophize in the same way everyone else can. Black people have been taught to read but they still exhibit problems understanding time, with a classic example being the stereotype of how they're always late for meetings. The American blacks are better off than the tribals in Africa in terms of capability but they're still deficient in comparison to Asians and Europeans. I don't expect that to continue forever into the future but it is the way things are now.

[Anonymous No.12719221]

>>12718602
fpbp
>>12718945
Retard egalitarian

[Anonymous No.12719224]

>>12719196
>Plenty of studies show that "abstract thought" comes with literacy.
any more info on this

[Anonymous No.12719231]

>>12719211
This, you're gonna have a hard time wading through the racists who think they know what's wrong with Africa.

To add to this list, Gwendolyn Brooks is another great black-american poet, and Melvin Van Peebles is a premier black-American filmmaker with ties to the French new wave. His films can be hard to watch, but are incredibly rewarding if you stick with them.

[Anonymous No.12719233]

>>12719224
Walter Ong's book Orality and Literacy takes this as its subject. He cites various studies, including a lot of interviews with non-literate people from Eastern Europe, the Balkans and even some surviving oral epic poets from certain African Tribes, Japan, and Yugoslavia.

[Anonymous No.12719235]

>>12718682
By that logic no one should celebrate being Irish either because of indentured servitude

[Anonymous No.12719236]

>>12719211
>>12719231
Go back you tranny >>>/his/cels

[Anonymous No.12719243]

>>12719194
Considering time doesn't actually exist and is just a convincing fiction of the human mind, I'd say that the genetic argument for it is still pretty weak.

[Anonymous No.12719245]

>>12719214
Walter Ong's study shows otherwise. At one point, he cites a study where people of varying degrees of literacy are shown a set of objects and asked to pick the one that doesn't belong (the example is axe, hammer, saw, log), and non-literate people never categorize the tools. Instead they talk about how they would go about chopping the log into pieces (I would use the axe because its faster). Even slightly literate people understand that this is a category, showing that any amount of literacy drastically warps your modes of thinking.

[Anonymous No.12719247]

>>12719235
But other than bagpipe gatherings and getting blackout drunk in march (things that any American of any ethnicity can be seen doing), americans who identify as being 3/18ths irish and half italian and half french and half polish are ruthlessly mocked

[Anonymous No.12719248]

>>12719243
Imagine having to act like this guy to try and prove that blacks aren't largely retards and yet they still are

[Anonymous No.12719251]

>>12719247
And people who identify as Nigerian nobles or - god preserve us - Egyptian pharaohs aren't?

[Anonymous No.12719254]

>>12719236
>go back
Never left. You responded to two people. Fuck off

[Anonymous No.12719258]

>>12719247
>ruthlessly mocked
No they aren't, everyone does this and nobody cares.

[Anonymous No.12719262]

>>12719236

shucks, anon, your replies seem to be off-topic.

what's the matter, retard? you can't reccommend anything because you don't actually read books.

[Anonymous No.12719266]

>>12719245
I think you misunderstand because it looks like we're in agreement that literacy will improve the ability to think abstractly, even significantly so. The point I'm making is that it even with that improvement, we can't expect to bring tribals to the level of Europeans just by teaching them to read. The improvement in capability necessary to reach the level of Europeans is something that will have to take place over generations. It took a long time to get from Homer to Plato.

[Anonymous No.12719272]

>>12718616
Whites are the natives of america, settling the east coast during the ice age before the injuns came from siberia. Solutrean culture bitch.

[Anonymous No.12719274]

>>12719258
>No they aren't
Tell the next irish person you meet "actually I'm irish too" and report back

[Anonymous No.12719275]

>>12719266

It literally takes 1-2. Aboriginals have grandchildren with college degrees.

[Anonymous No.12719279]

>>12719254
>>12719262
Back you go >>>/his/

[Anonymous No.12719280]

>>12719266
You may be misunderstanding me but I'm not sure. These examples come from people of the same community. This mental shift occurs at the individual level whenever the subject learns to read. If you raise a "tribal" to read from birth they have the same potential as anyone else who has learned to read from birth. Walter Ong also notes that non-literacy is not necessarily inferior, also claiming that the best oral epic poets still practicing today are totally illiterate.

[Anonymous No.12719289]

>>12719274
Oh, I thought you meant among Americans. Americans do not mock each other over this and they never encounter real Irish people so this doesn't matter.

[Anonymous No.12719290]

>>12718597
(Hegel), Marx, Lenin, Fanon, Malcolm X

[Anonymous No.12719302]

>>12719275
We're talking about population groups so the exceptions are useless to us. Aboriginals as a group are dumb even if some of them are smart.

>>12719280
I can't accept that because we're teaching every black kid to read but they're still exhibiting deficiencies in understanding time and math. They perform significantly worse on math tests than Hispanics who often live and grow up in the same conditions.

[Anonymous No.12719304]

[Anonymous No.12719320]

>>12719302
Where's your source on that?
I'd probably blame the education system. "Similar conditions" are not "the same conditions" and what may seem like small differences could actually mean that black schools lack resources in ways that Hispanic schools do not.

[Anonymous No.12719321]

>>12718597
Read Jay Wright.

[Anonymous No.12719332]

Césaire

[Anonymous No.12719338]

>>12719320
No I'm not playing the source game because it's common knowledge that blacks perform very poorly on math tests, and that blacks and Hispanics in the US often live in the same communities and economic conditions. Conditions that shouldn't matter the point being made since they're being taught to read all the same. If you don't believe me I don't care, I don't need to prove anything to you.

[Anonymous No.12719347]

>>12719320
>I'd probably blame the education system

[Anonymous No.12719354]

>>12719338
And I don't need to prove anything to you. I thought we were having a conversation, but I don't have any proof from you that blacks perform worse than hispanics. Nor do I believe that.

[Anonymous No.12719356]

>>12719338
What's your source on it being common knowledge?

[Anonymous No.12719361]

>>12719354
>but I don't have any proof from you that blacks perform worse than hispanics.
>Nor do I believe that.

[Anonymous No.12719367]

>>12719361
I mean, why the fuck should I?

[Anonymous No.12719370]

>>12719367
Because intentionally pretending to be retarded in some misguided crusade to prove that black's aren't is really ridiculous and you should be embarrassed to act like this

[Anonymous No.12719377]

>>12719370
So I should just believe anything this random jackass says is "common knowledge?" Is that what being smart means?

[Anonymous No.12719382]

>>12719377
No you're supposed to not pretend to be an idiot to have a point

[Anonymous No.12719385]

>>12719382
My point is that abstract thinking comes with literacy. Contingencies in education do not affect that. This guy can't accept that because its "common knowledge that blacks are worse that hispanics at math." I don't think that's common knowledge. He won't cite a source.

[Anonymous No.12719390]

>>12719385
>black people are dumb
>SOURCE SOURCE, CAN I GET A SOURCE ON THAT?
>heh I'm changing the world
never gonna make it

[Anonymous No.12719396]

>>12718678
>12 inches of yellow dick shoved down your rectum for the next millenium.
That's like 12 chinks fucking me at once

[Anonymous No.12719398]

>>12719377
It's stupid because you're getting hung up on that don't even matter to the argument. You're not asking for a source in good faith. You can compare of the performance of blacks on math tests with any other group and it'll prove the point. We don't even have to talk about Hispanics or economic conditions.

Whites and blacks are both taught to read yet blacks underperform on math tests. That is not a controversial statement and it shows that there is a difference in capability.

[Anonymous No.12719405]

>>12719390
>Makes a claim about results of education
>"You want a source on that?"
>"Nah man. That's a trick. I'm not playing that game."
>I can't lose arguments if I shut down whenever somebody asks me a question

[Anonymous No.12719406]

>>12719385
You're making an empirical statement which can be easily tested. Show me an example of a group of white people and a group of black people being taught in the same way and consequently performing in the same way.

[Anonymous No.12719416]

>>12719398
The comparison is blacks and hispanics, and anyway, white people are mostly average in math with asians outstripping everyone. You're right that I'm missing the point, because mathematical ability is not the same as capacity for abstract thought anyway.

[Anonymous No.12719421]

>>12719233
very interesting, ty
http://dss-edit.com/prof-anon/sound/library/Ong_orality_and_literacy.pdf

[Anonymous No.12719425]

>>12718597
Plato

[Anonymous No.12719429]

>>12719421
Thanks, hope you enjoy it

[Anonymous No.12719441]

>>12719405
I'm not that guy. Acting like an ignorant moron who has never lived on earth is not becoming nor does it raise blacks from their general stupidity. You look like an idiot, you're doing it on purpose as well, yet expect not to be called one. Again, ridiculous.

[Anonymous No.12719455]

>>12719441
I don't really care that you're a racist nor that you expect me to take that seriously. The fact that you expect me to take you seriously is only because we're on this website and not another. My experience is not yours. Fuck off cunt.

[Anonymous No.12719458]

>>12719416
The comparison was used to demonstrate the point, but is not necessary to the point being made so getting hung up on it is stupid. You can't perform well in mathematics without a correlating ability to think abstractly, so we're using math performance as a measure of abstract thinking. If you can find an alternative way of measuring it, then fine. We'll us that one because it doesn't matter.

You're essentially arguing that you can bring everybody in the world to the same degree of capability in one generation simply by teaching them to read by birth. You're ignoring evidence to the contrary and throwing out red herrings and it's bullshit.

[Anonymous No.12719461]

>>12719455
>it's some retarded yuro/aussie
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Look pal I don't care that you're a dipshit egalitarian but coming to a website you don't like to pretend to be even dumber than you actually are is doing nothing for niggers

[Anonymous No.12719463]

>>12719458
Mathematical ability does not necessarily measure the degree of abstract thought. People who excel at math don't necessarily think MORE abstractly than people who excel at reading or writing.

[Anonymous No.12719469]

>>12719461
>Yuro/Aussie
Neither of these. Does my identity matter?

[Anonymous No.12719472]

>>12719463
I disagree but as I said, it doesn't matter. How should we measure the ability to think abstractly? If you don't have an alternative you're just talking shit.

[Anonymous No.12719478]

>>12719469
>neither of those
>casually uses the word cunt
>pretends to be ignorant of reality to #SmashRacism
tfw I will never be this much of a tryhard

[Anonymous No.12719484]

>>12719472
The way Ong does it is by measuring how much of a person's immediate thought is situated in the "human life world." In other words, practical or concrete thought. You can make wheels without knowing any math for instance, but you would have no use for the concept of "circle."
Another sign of abstraction is coming up with definitions of words. Also writings lists. People who can't read don't do either of these things, nor do they care to. When asked "define tree" a non-literate would respond "why would I do that they're right outside." When asked "how would you explain a tree to someone who'd never seen one" a nonliterate person responds "I probably wouldn't because that person probably has no use for trees." Completely oral societies also only name plants which have uses ie. food, poison, medicine.

[Anonymous No.12719511]

>>12718602
Based

[Anonymous No.12719513]

>>12719484
This is useless. I didn't ask you to define abstract thought, but how to measure the damn thing. You can't compare populations without a way of measuring ability. I don't care about the particulars of definition so long as it's reasonable because I'm confident that blacks will perform worse than any other group, regardless.

[Anonymous No.12719521]

>>12719484
>You can make wheels without knowing any math for instance
I'm pretty sure that indian tribes, suh saharan africans and aborigines all failed to invent the wheel and your entire argument is entirely full of shit

[Anonymous No.12719526]

>>12719513
One conclusion to draw here is that abstract thought is not a skill, any more than speaking in proverbs instead of reading is a skill. It's just a different way of thinking, of approaching problems, which is impacted by literacy. There are degrees, but being more abstract doesn't make you smarter than somebody else.

[Anonymous No.12719531]

>>12719521
Ancient Greeks invented chariots before they invented a system of writing. Wheels are prehistoric and preliteracy. That's actually common knowledge

[Anonymous No.12719540]

>>12719531
That has nothing to do with black people you disingenuous retard lmao what do you think you are accomplishing?

[Anonymous No.12719545]

>>12719540
I wasn't arguing about black people until the other guy brought it up. My point was about literacy and abstract thought.

[Anonymous No.12719553]

>>12719545
And this thread is badly disguised /pol/bait you reddit retard but nice try dodging the topic at hand

[Anonymous No.12719560]

>>12719553
I really wasn't arguing about black people until the other guy said that hispanics outperformed them and then shut down. You made the dumbass claim that you need writing to make chariots. Fuck off you dumb piece of shit

[Anonymous No.12719568]

>>12719531
Fuckstick. Chariots are PIE, or rather Hittite. start educating yourself ASAP!

[Anonymous No.12719574]

>>12719531
>Ancient Greeks invented chariots

[Anonymous No.12719578]

>>12719568
First chariots date from 3300 BC long before the first systems of writing. Why do you even care at this point? Sailing predates writing too. So does farming, so does architecture, so do plenty of other ancient technologies that nowadays require a mathematical education.

[Anonymous No.12719582]

>>12719560
>You made the dumbass claim that you need writing to make chariots
No, I said stinky shitskin mud people didn't invent they wheel and you've been intentionally playing dumb and being dishonest. These are both true
>Fuck off you dumb piece of shit
Awwwwww :*( issums widdle bit upset?

[Anonymous No.12719594]

>>12719582
>stinky mud people
>widdle
Are you 12?

[Anonymous No.12719612]

>>12719526
The connection between intelligence and the ability to think abstractly is irrelevant because I'm not arguing that blacks are less intelligent, but that they are less capable of thinking abstractly. It doesn't matter you if you think abstract thinking is just a skill and has nothing to do with intelligence or if you think that blacks have an equally better way of thinking that isn't as abstract. That can all be true and not contradict the statement that blacks have less of an ability to think abstractly than whites.

You wouldn't happen to be black by any chance, would you? If so that would explain so much.

[Anonymous No.12719615]

fact of the matter is that Africans are still at a level that white man was at about 10000 to 14000 years ago.

[Anonymous No.12719618]

>>12719612
Test scores don't measure abstract thinking, they measure intelligence.

[Anonymous No.12719620]

>>12719594
:( uh oh

[Anonymous No.12719621]

>>12719615
(obviously counting pre-ancient Egyptians and gobekli tepe guys as white)

[Anonymous No.12719628]

>>12719618
Tests measure understanding of what is being testing, and true understanding requires abstract thinking. Anyone can repeat the formula 2+2=4 but to truly understand what those symbols mean requires abstract understanding. High math scores correlate to high understanding.

[Anonymous No.12719635]

>>12719612
I said abstract thinking WASN'T a skill. You can't measure it based on a particularly bad test score. If someone couldn't think abstractly, they wouldn't be able to take a written test. That's how you measure it.

[Anonymous No.12719642]

>>12719628
Non-abstract people would have no use for 2+2 if it wasn't attached to real objects they would use. 2+2=4 is a purely abstract concept. If someone understands that question they have a capacity for abstract thought.

[Anonymous No.12719651]

>>12719635
It doesn't matter if it's a skill or not, Jesus dude you get so hung up on irrelevant shit. I'm not accusing blacks of not being able to think abstractly, but I'm saying they have less of an ability. Even you admitted that there are differing degrees or levels of abstract thinking among people so why do you act like this is so controversial? Blacks underperform on every subject that requires abstract thinking.

[Anonymous No.12719665]

>>12719642
Does anyone ever have a use for the concept of infinity even though there are no real objects to correlate? There you go, 2+2=4 is meaningful regardless of the real world. Do you understand that I'm not saying blacks can't think abstractly? I do think they have the capacity to think abstractly.

[Anonymous No.12719666]

>>12719651
I really am sorry this has gotten so contentious, but I still feel like you're misunderstanding me. If black people can read, then they think abstractly, and have lost the ability to think otherwise. That is Ong's thesis. You're idea hinges on the premise that being bad at math proves that black people can't think abstractly. Outside of a tribal, primal setting, they can't think otherwise and it doesn't make them any better or any worse.

[Anonymous No.12719674]

>>12719665
Someone had to either invent or discover the concept of infinity. Its also interesting that abstract thought doesn't preclude metaphysical thought, like religion. Oral cultures always have religion. 2+2=4 may be inherently meaningful, but an oral person would always immediately ask 2 and 2 of what? What for? What are you trying to do that requires four objects? Because there is no ink and paper. You can't isolate the numbers from the objects they would normally correlate to.

[Anonymous No.12719700]

>>12719666
We don't have to use math. If you can admit that there are some subjects of inquiry which require abstract thinking to perform well, we can test people on those subjects and get a good idea on how good they are at thinking abstractly. These tests are constantly being done and blacks regularly underperform on every subject which requires abstract thinking to do well. It is reasonable to conclude from this that blacks lack the same ability of thinking abstractly as other the people being tested.

[Anonymous No.12719733]

>>12719700
Math requires abstract thinking to perform at all, let alone well. If a black person knows what 2+2 means, can understand "tools" as an arbitrary category, or would attempt to define the word "tree" if asked, then they are an abstract thinker, because people without systems of writing don't do any of these things. Whether or not you like any of them, the fact that black people write novels with 3-act plot structures is proof of abstract thought, because oral cultures tend to tell stories which are much more episodic, like Homer's work. You can't prove that someone isn't an abstract thinker by comparing their test results with someone else.

[Anonymous No.12719738]

>>12719733
Whether you like it, black people are generally shockingly dumb, as noted by everyone else ever.

[Anonymous No.12719743]

>>12719738
I'm not arguing about intelligence

[Anonymous No.12719751]

>>12719743
no one cares ;^]

[Anonymous No.12719755]

Stop viewing your blackness as a negation of whiteness, then you might have a shot at becoming an actual human being.

[Anonymous No.12719766]

>>12719733
Why do you keep talking about abstract thinking as if it's something you either have or don't when you admitted that it comes in degrees. I don't have the same ability to think abstractly as Thomas Aquinas or Plato and blacks don't have the same ability as whites. I'm not saying blacks are incapable of thinking abstractly so what the hell is wrong with you? I wasn't joking when I asked if you were black.

[Anonymous No.12719792]

>>12719136
The language thing is well documented and confirmed by nigger linguists.

[Anonymous No.12719799]

>>12719146
>The pony doll ALSO has a Sonichu amulet.
Kill me now please, i want off this timeline.

[Anonymous No.12719801]

>>12719792
The same people who spent 45 years trying to prove there is a "gay gene" now no longer believe in men and women and insult racists by calling them "low IQ sub humans". You can't expect much from these people.

[Anonymous No.12719802]

>>12719766
>Jay Wright
>Aime Cesaire
>not capable of high levels of abstract thinking

[Anonymous No.12719826]

>>12718597
The Greeks, but unironically.

[Anonymous No.12719834]

>>12719377
OK how many black mathematicians are there ? Can we aat least agree on "blacks do poorly on math tests designed by whites" and "VERY few african-american children are stimulated by their family/peers to like math or be good at it, relative to white children" ?

[Anonymous No.12719835]

>>12719802
>LOOK RACISTS -THIS ONE- ISN'T RETARDED!
How do you people never realize that having to even make this argument is immediately self-defeating

[Anonymous No.12719840]

>>12719802
When talking about groups of people, exceptions will always exist. Exceptions do not prove the rule. Some Asians are bad at math, yet Asians as a group are good at it. Some blacks are really smart, but blacks as a group are not.

[Anonymous No.12719844]

>>12719136
By the way, this just isn't true, and time isn't abstract. If you can't write, you probably measure time based on the movements of the sun, and lack of past or future tense would render language unusable. One google search turned up this study on African verb tenses where some languages actually have more versions of the future tense than romance languages.
https://www.africananaphora.rutgers.edu/tense-and-aspect-in-african-languages-hiddenmenu-218
>>12719766
I'm not black. Plato is actually a transitional figure, and actually demonstrates what is called "residual orality." He's not the most abstract thinker (not to say he's bad or unintelligent), and he's one of the primary examples in Ong's book of someone acting based on the recently innovated Greek writing system. Plato even complains about writing in his writing. Residual orality is somewhere between totally oral and totally abstract. He probably learned to read and write later in life, and it was a new technology for him
Think of it this way: are words sounds which correspond to objects, or are words visible objects which correspond to sounds which correspond to objects.

[Anonymous No.12719854]

>>12718597
https://archive.org/details/upwardpathreader00pritrich/page/n6

[Anonymous No.12719856]

>>12718602
fpbp

[Anonymous No.12719857]

>>12719801
Don't get me wrong, I find this discussion very interesting in itself. i'm not trying to push any point and would be statisfied with one or the other side winning the debate.

[Anonymous No.12719858]

>>12718597
Start with the greeks

[Anonymous No.12719860]

>>12718616
We would love to, but they only allow in Nafri rapists an terrorists... It's depressing, lemme tell you! But GenZ is coming up... The pendulum is starting to swing back, and it is gonna do so with a vengeance!

[Anonymous No.12719870]

>>12719834
Yeah, sure I agree with this

[Anonymous No.12719885]

>>12719840
To speak solely of groups is to ignore the fact that highly intelligent black people do exist. Why continue speaking in a way that thus distorts the truth? Shouldn't you be making statements about majorities rather than groups as a whole? When you just say "members of group x have quality y" it implies that ALL members of that group have that quality. To not qualify your statements appropriately is either to speak stupidly, to speak carelessly, or to lie. Pick one.

[Anonymous No.12719887]

>>12718597
>In the realm of politics - what should he read in order to protect himself and his interests?
Depends on your country. in America the answer would be very clear.
>>in religion
A man of character does not let himself be defined by his religion. "Ï'm a Christian", "I'm Muslim"

[Anonymous No.12719929]

>>12719885
The mean iq of blacks is less then whites. Rich blacks do worse on the sat then poor whites.

As for a lack of abstract thinking, it is ingrained in the original black languages. There was an essay, I think it got purged, when a researcher realized that you could say "the fruit is up in the tree" but not how far it is in the tree, until the missionaries came language had things like that all the time.

[Anonymous No.12719932]

[Anonymous No.12719971]

>>12719929
I found a copy of the essay, it's one of the biggest red pills on blacks.

https://menghublog.wordpress.com/2012/05/01/morality-and-abstract-thinking-how-africans-may-differ-from-westerners-gedaliah-braun/

[Anonymous No.12719972]

>>12719885
Oh you can fuck right off. I can't speak of every individual in the world and when I say "black people" that is me talking about them as a group, even if you're too stupid to realize that. There's no qualification necessary. It's impossible to compare groups without generalizations.

To say Africans have brown skin is a generalization, but it's a good one because it's usually true. The fact that some Africans are born albinos and have white skin doesn't change the truth of the generalization. Blacks underperform on tasks which require abstract thinking. The fact that some blacks perform well does not change the truth of the generalization. You should be ashamed for sharing such a stupid objection.

[Anonymous No.12719986]

>>12719972
Most tasks in contemporary life involve abstract thinking, so to say blacks "underperform on tasks which require abstract thinking" is actually a ridiculous generalization just because it is far too vague.

[Anonymous No.12719991]

>>12719929
Distance between objects is not an abstract concept

[Anonymous No.12720008]

>>12719971
Ong's study actually accounts for all of the stuff this researcher is talking about, except morality, which does not require abstract thinking. Again, remember Homer did not think abstractly, then think of the ethics in the Odyssey, which are entirely based on verbal contracts and Greek hospitality codes. The study is false in its conclusions

[Anonymous No.12720020]

>>12719986
There are varying degrees of abstract thinking. Thinking about having sex last night is an exercise in abstract thinking, but it doesn't require a lot of ability. Astrophysics and other sciences involves tasks which require a significantly higher ability to think abstractly in order to perform well. Blacks underpeform in these areas and this can be proven empirically through SAT scores and through professional demographics in these fields.

[Anonymous No.12720026]

>>12720008
>Homer did not think abstractly
How can you even say this when he's inventing stories in his head. Earlier you used the example of blacks writing stories as proof they can think abstractly but Homer doesn't get the same treatment.

[Anonymous No.12720028]

>>12719986
>Most tasks in contemporary life involve abstract thinking,
Okat
>so to say blacks "underperform on tasks which require abstract thinking" is actually a ridiculous generalization
Blacks clearly underperform in life you dishonest retard lmfao

[Anonymous No.12720032]

>>12720026
I said novels with 3-act structures were proof of abstract thinking. Epic poems, performed orally, are the opposite. It doesn't mean that Homer was bad or stupid.

[Anonymous No.12720039]

>>12718597
Which country do you live in anon?

[Anonymous No.12720053]

>>12720032
I would love to know how they are opposite but more importantly, what the hell is abstract thinking if authoring any kind of story isn't considered an exercise of it.

[Anonymous No.12720056]

>>12720008
The part when Achilles returns hectors body because his father risked his life to beg him, is not only one of the main points of the tale, but contradicts your conclusion.

[Anonymous No.12720058]

>>12720026
Same guy. What I mean by this is: Homer would never try to abstract the concept of beauty from beautiful objects, the way that Plato does explicitly. To take the descriptive word and concept of "beauty" and try to define it and describe its qualities separate from things which are beautiful is an abstraction. This is what I mean by abstract thought. Plato doesn't want to "use" beauty for any practical purpose, he just believes that there is intrinsic value in thoroughly understanding the concept. This is what I mean by abstract thinking.

[Anonymous No.12720076]

>>12718602
based fpbp

[Anonymous No.12720105]

>>12720053
Literate cultures tend to be able to deliberately plan stories, often unconsciously, on a chronological chart where the tension rises, climaxes, then resolves in a denouement.
Oral stories, like epic poems, tend to be thematically linked episodes, told non-linearly. This is supposedly the real reason for "in media res." In a non-literate society there isn't tension or a story-arc in the same way that there is with writing. It's actually hard to keep linear, chronological track of a long story without writing it down, so epic poets often start stories in the middle because they don't remember where it actually begins right away, and it doesn't matter anyway.
There are way more differences between oral and literate storytelling structures and methods but you'd have to read the book.

[Anonymous No.12720173]

>>12718597
>What should a black man have read in order to survive in a Jew world?
ftfy

[Anonymous No.12720572]

>>12718602

[Anonymous No.12720610]

If you’re born in a Western country and raised in a Western culture, those are your roots. Read Machiavelli. Read Shakespeare. Read Dumas. Read Borges, if you want to see a truly cosmopolitan mind at work. All this bullshit about “your people” just makes you an unpleasant person.

[Anonymous No.12720621]

>>12719972
I'm criticizing the reductive nature of thinking about people as groups.

[Anonymous No.12720647]

>>12719972
Generalizations are lazy approximations of truth at best, and at worst they are outright lies.

[Anonymous No.12720660]

>>12720647
>Generalizations are (...) at worst they are outright lies
Yeah like the one in your post I'm replying to ;^)

[Anonymous No.12720661]

"Every x is y (except, of course, for every x that is not y)."

[Anonymous No.12720668]

>>12718602
What a vitriolic and hateful comment. I came here from the top 100 /lit/ books thread a while back, and the amount of sexism, racism and let's not forget antisemitism, is beyond bounds. I assumed it was a joke but seeing this for so long, I'm quite certain it is no joke at all. 4channel is a fucking cesspool and I'll be returning from whence I came. The sex negativity and religious aspect of this place really freaks me out too. I don't want to read about nofap on a book forum. This is guilt tripping. I had enough. Good riddance to you backward troglodytes who happened to surround yourself with quality books you don't even read.

[Anonymous No.12720670]

>>12720660
It's not a generalization.

[Anonymous No.12720676]

>>12720670
you did it anon, black people aren't retarded now suddenly and you won't have to try and convince people they are even human beings. Way to go!

[Anonymous No.12720694]

>>12720676
Oh, you're being sarcastic because you have absolutely nothing of substance to offer. I understand.

[Anonymous No.12720697]

>>12720694
ANON STOP YOU'RE GOING TO BRING ABOUT WAKANDA

[Anonymous No.12720735]

>>12719844
>time isn't abstract
wrong

>lack of past or future tense would render language unusable
also wrong

[Anonymous No.12720743]

>>12720647
>"Dude, don't get out of the jeep. Lions are dangerous, bro!"
>Ugh, I can't even. Generalizing much? Now hold my phone while I pet the pussy.

[Anonymous No.12720747]

>>12718602
fpbp

[Anonymous No.12720780]

>>12720735
Language would basically be reduced to nouns, command verbs and present tense verbs. And time isn't abstract, its an immediate and universal part of human experience.

[Anonymous No.12720782]

>>12718597
Just chiming in to say please don't become a racist yourself, either in sight of the outside world or the internet one, in which case you may see much antipathy towards your kind. Please, remain compassionate for all peoples. Don't become what you despise. Also just wanted to send you love, don't worry about mean people in the world <3

p.s i wasn't a huge fan of Black Panther. namely, I enjoyed the cultural elements but hated the typical Disneyfication™ of the project, wherein everything was kept in the confines of banality and predictability for the sake of reaching the revenue all their films need to, and wish the film could have been made by another group who would have honored the actually-nice worldbuilding they'd managed to set up. i also liked the soundtrack, especially the song Pray for Me with the Weeknd/Kendrick. i'm a huge Weeknd fan

[Anonymous No.12720803]

>>12720782
This. I'm not OP, but great post. Thanks for chiming in

[Anonymous No.12720815]

>>12720782
...Yikes!

[Anonymous No.12720818]

>>12720782
>telling a black not to be a racist
Please seek help anon you're not well

[Anonymous No.12720846]

>>12719272
based retard

[Anonymous No.12720856]

>>12719272
WE WUZ NATIVES N SHIET

[Anonymous No.12720867]

>>12720668
good pasta

[Anonymous No.12720868]

>>12718597
whites dont really care about blacks. On the countryside you may be a curiosity but there is worse.
Read Robert Anton Wilson.

[Anonymous No.12720869]

>>12719582
>wheel came from Mesopotamia
Seems like "mud people" (lmao playing too much Dungeons & Dragons again) were building civilization when you snowniggers were goin ooga booga in a forest

[Anonymous No.12720881]

>>12720668
The Anon that looked upon the light but was blinded by it.

[Anonymous No.12720895]

>>12720869
Ah yes the negroids and australoids of mesopotamia, who could forget about them ;^) silly me blacks are smart now

[Anonymous No.12720896]

>>12720668
don't let the door hit you on the way out, in case you're not trolling

[Anonymous No.12720913]

>>12720895
>I acted sarcastic
>That means mesopotamians didn't invent the wheel

>>12720896
Honestly more people should leave this site for good, but I think most of the people here genuinely don't have another community to go to. This place is a shithole and everything that guy said is true though.

[Anonymous No.12720920]

>>12720856
wh*toid

[Anonymous No.12720966]

>>12718597
mein kampf

[Anonymous No.12721009]

>>12720913
I never claimed that white people invented the wheel sweaty I said that indians, abbos and nigs did not. Semites and arabs are caucasoids tho ;^)