/lit/ - Literature

>>9924851
Leftists and progressives have most of academia on their side, and often bolster their arguments against the right by appealing to the work of academics. They respect the authority with which academics are vested, and rely on this authority to justify lots of their beliefs. Having a successful and respected academic who espouses "right wing" ideas is thus important for the right. As such, to some on the right he similarly represents an intellectual authority to appeal to in order to justify conservative and alt-right ways of thinking.

He elicits strong reactions from the left because he is an academic who does not agree with them. He polarizes the right because some on the right cling to him as the only "intellectual" figure in academia saying shit they find resonant with their own beliefs--the only one speaking the truth--whereas others think he i) is not saying anything that profound or interesting ii) he is not far enough right for them and so is "blue-pilled" iii) his ubiquity makes him a meme. Those on the right who are not invested in him as an intellectual and see him as a meme exacerbate things because they know that just by posting about him (as you have done) and especially by posting about him in "provocative" ways (as you have done by likening him to Hitler) they are almost guaranteed responses from his critics, his fans, those who are sick of seeing his face, and those who want to meme about him.

But yeah, long story short: the right has very few public intellectuals steeped in academic culture and tradition contemporarily working to whom they can appeal to justify their beliefs. So when one shows up (i.e. Peterson) they flock to him.

>>9924911
The assumption he's right wing in any way is completely bizarre, he's a centrist through and through. It's interesting how left we've swayed as societies when a centrist is being labeled as far right by journos.

>>9924851
From my point of view the average people, the silent majority, the classic liberals, have taken their ideals for granted (myself included). And it's such a breath of fresh air to hear someone credible and informed not only remind us of what's being threatened, but also bolstering it.

I'm not saying anything like 'the sheeple are waking up', i suppose in simplest terms i'm saying it's just nice to be reminded that not everyone has gone fucking mental.

he homo fag

Idk if this gives some sort of insight... But the second i learned of peterson i instantly clung and started learning more from him. my life is so shit rn.. i find myself slightly right of center, had a very high paying job -- almost finished college, got addicted to heroin(still am) dropped out. I consider myself an somewhat intellectual. I try to read a 300+ page book once a month, im always learning new things and studying, a vast amount of real life skills, but emotional and spiritual parts of me are gone, unfulfilled and when i read or listen to Peterson, i genuinely feel like my life is going to improve soo i can get back on track.

>>9924851
His screeching stupidity.

>>9924935
>>9924953
Who are you people? If you're trolling, you can do a lot better. Are you just upset Marxists?

I feel like when i get on 4chin, discord, twitch or whatever and we start memeing(or 4real) about nationalism, hilter or whatever, It feels good that theres are other people who think like me and feel the same way i do. Care about certain things uniquely affecting people like us -- with similar but different likes. Obviously we cant agree on everything, but i feel as if were all on the same page just with different syntax.

I know sometimes the hitler thing is a meme but sometimes i seriously think, i would be a better person if i was a part of a collective with strong values and beliefs. But instead i was born into an agnostic, god-less household, divorced parents, brother commits suicide when i was 14, No community support, I was a profuse liar; smoked weed which led to trying other drugs which led to pills which led to heroin which led to LSD, shrooms, cocaine.

Instead of a god-less, free for all, maybe if our surroundings were soo toxic maybe myself and others wouldn't feel soo disenfranchised.

Idk im ranting, not even making coherent sentences. nevermind. .

>>9924964
This is a Juche board, faggot, get used to it.

>>9924964
>le FROZEN HATES MEN REEEEEEEE man is a towering intellectual

Jesus Christ

>>9924964
lmfao homo fag

>>9924911
>>9924928

You're making him sound a lot more reasonable than he is.

He's a crazy conspiracy theorist who thinks Frozen is brainwashing feminist propoganda, there's a secret cabal of Marxists brainwashing Canada to abandon notions of truth by teaching postmodernism in universities and now he says needs to start his own online university to teach only the texts he wants and dissent will be shut out.

He's a classic paranoid reactionary this time with a psychology degree and a few Jungian terms which impresses undereducated young men by telling them the "real" meaning of fairy tales, he appeals to their need for a father figure with some Oprah book club tier self help platitudes, and then he rakes in tens of thousands a month on his patreon by telling them they need to donate to save the west.

His readings of Marx and post-modernism are misrepresentations, his conspiracy theories are outlandish and crazy, his greed and milking of insecure young men is pathetic, his lectures are long and rambling and don't contain anything that hasn't been written before and better, and he elicits a reaction because we are sick of having threads about him every day by people who think he's some great intellectual saviour. The alt-right are desperate for an intellectual to call their own and this shyster has seen the opportunity and is milking them for everything they are worth.

>>9924851
He's popular and he says things with a lot of conviction. Feedback is prone to happen.

>>9925039
>calls him crazy
>supports argument by saying true things

not sure what youre getting at here, btw communism has been tried a bunch of times and it was terrible

>>9925039
>there's a secret cabal of Marxists
>secret
Nobody said anything about secret, they're pretty open about it.

>>9925039
I would agree some of his rantings are paranoid. But to say academia is not experiencing a Marxist revival is disingenuous.

If you dont mind me asking, where did you go to school? HS and college? I went to an Ohio hs, and Ohio state college, and the political rhetoric is thick and consistent. Taught in 80% of classes even if not part of curriculum.

As for his political leaning his more of a classical British liberal. Again some of his lectures are ranty and some crazy conspiracy shit, but when he does get it right? he hits the very core of the issue it rings true.

>>9925039
Also as for the online shit and his side businesses, thats the market speaking. He's popular and hes offering a service people want. Nothing wrong with that.

>>9924851
The fact that there's at least five threads a day about him here.

>>9925063
Are you trying to have a conversation with somebody so new he doesn't even know who /polit/ masturbates to? the fuck man.

IM DELETING YOU, DADDY! ██]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] 10% complete..... ████]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] 35% complete.... ███████]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] 60% complete.... ███████████] 99% complete..... ERROR! True Daddies are irreplaceable I could never delete you Daddy! Send this to ten other Daddies who give you cummies Or never get called squishy again If you get 0 Back: no cummies for you 3 back: you're squishy 5 back: you're daddy's kitten 10+ back: Daddy HAHAHAH U MAKE ME HAPPY

>>9925075
yeah.. i know i know...
I was hoping i could change the hearts of men, thats all.

fuckin shariablue has been thick this weekend.

>>9925057
Someone's mom spent the pill money on booze.

>>9925088
You shouldn't shame the underprivileged Anon, that isn't very tolerate of you.

>>9925088
Not even him, but this is bad burn. 4chan used to be funny, savage, etc. now it's full of adolescent /pol/ LARPers

>>9925094
>that's very tolerate of you

>>9925094
You are such a sweet soul anon.

>>9925095
I can't tell what bad burn means here.

>>9924928
>he's a centrist through and through
There isn't a world in which he isn't a textbook conservative lad. His whole ethos is essentially christian.

>>9925095
No it wasn't, you forget that /b/ consisted of people spamming nigger for the first 3 years until it got so racist boards had to be split up even further.

>>9925101
You probably don't read, no you don't, do you?

>>9925107
/b/ had at least some variety in shitposting. But yeah, it's generally the same mentality with a dash of stormfaggotry.

>>9925110
This is one of the most perplexing pics I have ever seen. I can't even tell what the fuck it means.

>>9925095
I feel this %100. nuPOL is def. lame af.
I started 4chin around 2009-2010 and is was super funny and edgy. But if theres one thing i do like about nuPOL is there are some parts of pol that lead you to genuine people where being edgy 24/7 isnt valued. POL isn't the hideout anymore but more a bar that has portals to new hideouts. lol does that make sense?

>>9925112
I've also noticed a lot of the new Illiberal and Marxist posters don't remember when /lit/ was primarily a board for arguing about Bible translations and Bible accessories.

>>9925116
haha yessss. that and ron paul books

>>9925112
Don't worry, the far right is dead and it has no way of recovering to its glory days. Fascism is so utterly contradictory, and devoid of any content, it's been relegated to a fucking Jap cartoon board site.

We're entering a stage of a new economic order, as Marx predicted, but not as he envisioned. The Deep State control the means of production, and we will enter into an age of quasi-socialism with bureaucratic hegemons at its zenith. The so-called democracy of the past will be replaced with universal basic income, yet the powerful of the Old World will shift into the role of "leaders" in this faux communist world order.

>>9925116
Shariablue isn't sending their best, I miss the old Pomo Marxists, they could at least hold a proper conversation.

>>9925121
I agree and think it's already mostly there. BUT the one thing i think you're overlooking is i truly think the "classic" conservative party is going to die and in it's place a NEW "conservative" party with some old christian values, with new thinking and new operation

>>9925115
Does it have anything to do with the mass media coverage of the "alt-right xD"? I feel like that piqued the interest of, and called for, all these mouth-breathing redditors and bored children to come to our once great site.

>>9925121
>Posting your Sci-fi manuscript in a Peterson thread
I mean I guess.

>>9924928
>he's a centrist through and through
It's the current year, free speech is a radical nazi alt-right woman hating position.

>>9925121
That's an interesting perspective. Yes, fascism is mostly dead now. Its current resurgence has mostly been a farce and and a fart. Last time it rolled around you had Maggie, Pinochet, Franco, The Colonels, Reagan, Noriega, erc. Now you got Donny T, a corrupt Hungarian fart, Erdogan and that's it.

>>9925128
def. i dont know if you've ever been to any of the more fringe chyanxz. Have a really good group of guys. Some specialize in political speak, some edgy, goofs and gaffs. and the whole sharia blue isn't such a problem on some of those places.

Nothing elicits strong emotions. He's a Harvard professor that decided to speak out against a project, that's it. He has the knowledge of his area that you'd expect from a Harvard professor. Psychology is not a cut and dry thing, so you can't blame different men for following different schools - hell, there are some that think Freud is a charlatan. He got a bit famous in the internet scene so a bunch of people voice their opinios. That's it. Only autists give a shit in the end.

>>9925146
>nothing elicits strong emotions

>>9925039
He's not crazy nor a conspiracy theorist, nor paranoid. If you were to actually think about his lectures (or at least watch them), you'd see he's very much influenced by Jung and metaphysics, and although there is indeed a portion of society doing these things he worries about, I feel he's clear that from his perspective that a lot of the perpetration is inadvertent.

The nazis didnt just appear and brainwash the people, the people were already of the mind which lead to the rise of the nazis.

Also his readings of marx and post-modernism are not misrepresentations, i suggest you rethink your position on them if you think this.

>>9925039
>Frozen is brainwashing feminist propoganda
It's not?

>a secret cabal of Marxists brainwashing Canada
I think he speaks for universities in the US as well, and he's right. Though I agree he's a paranoid reactionary as well.

>>9925167
Anon, it doesn't matter what infowars says about big pharma, pills are required for your treatment.

>>9925102
You're implying Christianity = conservatism

>>9925171
?
Is that even debatable?

>>9924851
Paranoia induced by fear industry and the accompanying ideology focused on victimhood. To hear that you should live your life properly despite at one point hitting your toenail is absurd, reckless, dangerous and of course, racist.

>>9925165
i agree 100% but as the other anon said dont waste your energy on a leftyeddditor. You cannot change the hearts of men with no intention of meeting his brethren and trying to understand our position.

He just pray to the almighty for him in hopes that he too will see the lit path, away from nihilist, communist thought.

>>9925174
>>9925174
Well of course if you wish to politicize Christianity then it becomes conservatism, but that isn't necessarily a goal of Christianity.

I'm certain you can learn from Christianity and not wish to proselytize it on others.

>>9925183
What the hell?
It's not Christianity that's politicized, it's right-wing politics that are Christianized, and have been so ever since the concepts of left and right wing became a thing.

I used to be a huge leftist until a few years ago, now I watch most of Peterson's videos and I kind of agree with it, but I know that I'm pretty much ingorant of most of what he's talking about, plus he's pushing a pretty biased point of view I think.

How do I actually start learning about all of that? I know it's kind of a shitty question to ask, but what are goods entry points to philosophy and ideology? I read a bit on Marxism (from Marxists' points of view) and I know the basics of it (Marx, Engels, dialectical materialism...), well... how do I become educated on all of that? What authors should I start with?

>>9925186
our nation was christian before left/right or up/down

>>9925194
Yes, and the right wing was always the party of Christian orthodoxy.
Lad, conservatism and conservative values are deeply Christian, you can't understand it without an understand of Christian ethics.

>>9925186
I'm sorry but i think you're tremendously wrong, but there is something in what you're saying.

I simply don't think that the entirety of what is deemed the right leaning side of the 'spectrum' is Dependant upon Christianity, or religion in general.

>>9925192
>pic related
also the bible, some jung and Nietzsche is a start

>>9925198
>I simply don't think that the entirety of what is deemed the right leaning side of the 'spectrum' is Dependant upon Christianity, or religion in general.
Sure, but the entirety of conservatism is.

>>9925192
>goods entry points to ideology

I think you've had quite enough already

>>9925202
No mate, you're arguing, that because Peterson values christian thought, he's a conservatist. Sure you're right than conservatism is somewhat dependant on Christianity, though i wouldn't say 100% dependant. But you can certainly be anything but a conservatist and also a christian.

>>9925214
>But you can certainly be anything but a conservatist and also a christian.
Not if you make orthodox christian values the framework of your worldview and ideology.
>hard work is a value in itself
>value your suffering
>work for redemption
>avoid sin
Those are all deeply conservative values.

>>9925214
>conservatism is somewhat dependant on Christianity
Stop.

>>9925170
Maybe you should meet some of the people who go to university in the US. There's very clearly a Marxist undercoat among some portion of the studies and students.

All of them — Peterson, the Marxists, the LGBTQ people — are reactionaries though. The latter are reacting to the increased competition fostered by globalism, which has crushed the identity out of many people who cannot cope with the greater demands in the process. Peterson, on the other hand, is also a reactionary, an old man who is reacting to this new wave of reactionary subcultural movement. Peterson is more agreeable because at least he speaks from a time and angle that was once the correct cultural mode of thought, though it's not so much anymore, which also makes him only a few steps above the rest of the reactionaries.

What is the correct cultural mode of thought right now? The mega-capitalists, bankers, engineers, and popular art enthusiasts (not shit in museums but the works appearing in movie theaters and on shelves of game stores) can tell you.

>>9924851
he is famous for arguing down the easiest target in the world: a bunch of gugalo looking faux-trannies. the right is desperate for bias confirmation so this weedy prick is what they'll clutch at

>>9925227
*juggalo

>>9925220
No those are christian values.

You're misunderstanding what seperates Classical liberalism (What Peterson is) from Conservatism (What you think he is).

Although they intersect to a remarkably large degree, they are separated by different stances on authority.

>>9925224
Don't over generalise, i'm obviously speaking on the norms of the west. You also didn't appreciate that i said 'somewhat dependant'.

>>9925230
>No those are christian values.
They are both, which is the point.

Classical liberalism says nothing about those.

>>9925192
Read the most influential works in the fields you want to learn about, and try to do so at least semi-chronologically. I can't think of a list since JP is probably making reference to many different texts. Every academic has read most of the canon of philosophy or the greatest thinkers that everyone knows of (Plato, Aristotle, Nietzsche, Kant, etc.); JP is a psychologist and he's clearly obsessed with Jung, so read Jung. He has a reading list on his website. JP isn't really lecturing about esoteric stuff, but he does showcase his erudition in the general canonical works of phil/psych in his lectures.

The most important thing is that you have to be sympathetic to both sides if you are trying to remain free from bias. E.g. just think of any political issue/group and approach it from their perspective. Do those crazy fucks on the far left have a point? Do the alt-right have a point? (Pro-tip: both do). The same applies with JP and his critics.

>>9925224
>Plato
Conservatism is Aristotelian. Plato is a liberal.

penis dick

>>9924851

>>9925237
Plato is a literal Traditionalist fascist.

>>9925251
>Traditionalist fascist.
that's not conservative

>>9925257
m8 your on /lit/ anybody left of Chomsky are fascists here.

>>9925233
We're all super complex individuals made up of many components. It's my view that modern western conservatism adopts Christian components ofcourse, But just as birds and humans are both bipedal, they are not the same type of animal.

>>9925199
>>9925234
Thanks I'll look into that.

>>9925210
What do you mean?

>>9924851
He's redddit in human form

>>9925251
>Plato
>traditionalist

>>9925264
>It's my view that modern western conservatism adopts Christian components
It's not that they adopt it, it's that Christianity is the lineage of conservatism.

>>9925268
He wanted to return Rome to a pre-hellenic culture.

>>9925279
>Rome
ok bruh, you can go back to your animus now

>>9925139
>>9924928

Oh, fuck off.

>>9925272
Yes but you're not understanding my point.

There's more to conservatism that separates it from Christianity.

>>9925284
I don't even know how I typed Rome when I was thinking Greece, but that still wouldn't even be correct. I'm retarded.

>>9925287
Excellent point friend, i thank you for you insight.

>>9925288
Well sure, given that one is a religion and the other a political pole. But there's even more separating it from classical liberalism.

When I listen to Petersen I hear "Credo in unum Deum", not "liberty and the pursuit of burgers"

>>9925063
I never said Marxistm was not popular in academia, I said his theory where he ties it into postmodernism and transsexuals is crazy.

It's a classic sign of paranoia when you tie all the things you don't like together into some grand conspiracy.

And as far as his political leaning he is most definitely a conservative. He openly says he wants society to be based more around tradition and religion.

>>9925054
I never said communism wasn't terrible, communism being shit and Peterson being crazy are not related.

>>9925302
I think our understandings fundamentally differ as to whether Peterson is on the attack or the defense. I'm of the latter mind. I don't want Ideas that disagree with mine to be destroyed (although i know part of me does, i know it shouldnt be done.), I simply want to defend my own and to expand and repair them.

>>9925320
>as to whether Peterson is on the attack or the defense
I don't understand why you would bring this up.
>I don't want Ideas that disagree with mine to be destroyed
I'm not sure what this has to do with conservatism. Are you implying that a conservative has to be a fascist authoritarian?

>>9925225
>
What is the correct cultural mode of thought right now? The mega-capitalists, bankers, engineers, and popular art enthusiasts (not shit in museums but the works appearing in movie theaters and on shelves of game stores) can tell you

ah yes, those highly intellectual stimulating marvel movies and call of dutys and marios

not that shit in museums... since we're on the path of gereralizing

>>9925039
I applaud you for this post. I'm fucking sick of him too.

>>9925170
When did you think gas lighting was an acceptable form of debate?

>>9925294
You're comparing yourself to Jesus... Really?

The alt-right have taken up Messiah to go along with all their other complexes.

>>9925429
I have no idea what public lighting has anything to do with what I was saying, but if ranting about a scary cabal of whatevers out to get you doesn't mean you need treatment I have no idea what does.

>>9925448
Every fringe cult of paranoid schizos has a Messiah complex.

>>9925448
>>9925479
Not sure if trolling but thats clearly a joke. And further more an edit of where jesus actually says "traps are gay". Also peterson isnt alt right. Thanks :)

>>9925722
Urgh. You could tell they're fucked just from the way they write.

>>9925754
You should try harder sweetie, i know you can do better than that! Thanks :)

>taking seriously a guy that speaks like a puppet frog
How

i forgot this place went full tumblr a few years ago

>>9925862
Yeah, we got taste

>triggered feminist taking over /lit/
wait... no, actually there's nothing weird about that

>What is it about Jordan Peterson that elicits such strong reactions?
because six months ago no one heard of this guy, then one day there were ten threads about him on every vaguely philosophy related board
because no one ever talks about literature in these threads; they are literally only talking about youtube videos
because six months from now none of you will even remember him and have moved on to your next master

>>9925888
>because six months ago no one heard of this guy
He was actually pretty well known and heavily cited author way before 6 months ago.

>>9924851
He makes everyone with a useless humanities/liberal arts/philosophy degree feel important

>>9925896
More like he makes everyone with a useless humanities/liberal arts/philosophy degree feel worthless for being incapable of capitalizing on their degree.

>>9925039
This is really how the left perceives him, huh? Pointing out the intellectual trends that lead to a relativistic conception of the world becoming dominant among university professors makes you a conspiracy theorist, but seeing patriarchy under every rock is somehow legitimate.

>>9925896
He literally says that universities do more harm that good, and that people should just take up vocational training and study the humanities through self-selected reading.

>>9925893
More proof the alt right clows aren't interested in him as an academic, just a guy who bashes trannies and SJWs

>>9925039

>implying Canadian universities aren't packed to the gunwales with leftists

>>9925922

But post-modernism is really not the same thing as a relativistic conception of the world, and has nothing to do with Marxism. In fact the two are pretty incompatible viewpoints.

He just lumps everything he dislikes into a grand conspiracy and misinterprets or misrepresents it to get his undedicated cultists to hate it too.