/lit/ - Literature

Greatest poets ever (Lorca and Rimbaud) were gays...but they were also males...you don't mean lesbian do you?

>>985755
No sir I do not

>>985759
Okay, good. Well, as I was saying, there are many great poets who were gay, but many who weren't as well. I don't know, I write poetry and i'm bisexual and in that way i guess i'm like verlaine or byron or shelley...hm...maybe there is something to it.

To be blunt, well, yeah, it's a stereotype. A lot of poets were queer.
A lot weren't.
I write poetry and I'm straight. I never mention I write poetry to anyone, because I don't want to get into the herp derpetry of discussing gender roles and stereotypes with morons.
Who gives a shit, is basically what I'm getting at here. You already know stereotypes are a load of crap.

>>985765
Seems to be.

Rimbaud, Whitman and Byron are among my favourite poets.

>>985775
I was not stating that all poets were gay, just the large quantity of homosexuals in the medium compared to others.

Just an odd occurrence, in my mind

yea in general poetry is pretty gay.

>>985790
is it really that hard to figure out? i mean come on. how often do you encounter poetry that isn't based on, or expressing emotion. and women and gays are particularly fond of this "emotion"

>>985796
Most of the greatest poets who were also gay happened to be exceptionally skilled at imagery. Their poems weren't about ''emotions''.

>>985803
that is probably a good point, i don't know much about gay poets, but i respect your statement because you probably know more than me about the subject, i was offering nothing more than uneducated guess

>>985810
wow. how incredibly mature...on /lit/..@_@

>my captcha: Characterized nona
thought of nona f. buckley from the adventures of pete and pete. you kids probably don't remember it....

>I am a poet.

Whoa-ho-ho.

Please leave /lit/ or just never say that again.

Whitman - gay

Ginsberg - gay, pedo

Homer - probably gay

>>985824

Oh yeah! and Rimbaud.

Good old gay Rimbaud and his "Ode to the Asshole"

>>985821
Hell, even TS Eliot worked as a bank clerk while writing his best poetry. His primary income didn't come from poetry until fairly late in his life. By then it wasn't even his poetry, really, that got him money, and more his fame.

You can be a poet even if it's not your primary mode of income, and even if you have yet to be published.

>>985824
>Whitman - gay
wat

>>985828

Sorry, it's just that as someone who has written poetry his whole life and had some of it published, I facepalm when someone makes the statement "I am a poet."

>>985829

Whitman's peers even suggested to him to tone down the homoeroticism in Leaves of Grass...

>>985821
I write poetry. I enjoy doing so. I have been published.

What would make me illegible for poet-status?

>>985835

>illegible

>>985835

You'd have to die and be remembered as such.

Sorry, I just hold the word "poet" in high regard.

>>985836
Ineligible.

My dearest apologies

>>985834
Well how about that: the founder of American poetry, the most iconic of American poets, was a homo. I had no idea but I'm damn proud of my country.

>>985838
Then frankly, you're a moron.

He who writes poetry is a poet.

Doesn't mean he's a good one.

>>985839

>apologies

>>985840

If I'm a moron, then so is the poetry professor I had in college.

And he was a poet laureate.

I think I'll take his and my own opinion above yours.

>>985843
In that regard then, he is one, as are you.

That's like saying a postal worker is not a postman until he is remembered as such.

What is the difference?

If you paint, you're a painter.

There isn't even a remotely logical or well thought out philosophical reason for your convoluted definition of a basic word.

This is the second time tonight that a picture of space has made me feel vertigo.

>>985850

You're equating delivering mail with one of the toughest arts known to mankind.

If you think anyone who pens a rhyme is a poet, then we're all poets--considering most school children are forced to do acrostics and such.

The word is subjective, I guess.

Kind of how I also don't think a kid who knows a few power chords is a "guitarist."

>>985857
your assigning unnecessary prestige to the label of ''poet''..poet can indicate someone who writes poetry, in fact it indicates that more than it indicates that someone is considered a poet because of fame or whatever criteria. anyway, your teacher sounds like a fail and ''poet laureats'' always write the worst drivel i have ever laid eyes on.
>toughest artforms
not if you are gifted. if poetry is tough you should try something that comes naturally to you and you enjoy.

>>985857
No, someone who writes one poem and doesn't care for the art form is not one.

One who actively writes, publishes and cares for said form should be considered one.

If the title of poet is to be reserved for those whose work endures after death, how can there be contemporary poets?

I understand where you are coming from, angsty teenagers who write bullshit and call themselves poets or writers annoy me as well.

But no need for an added pretentiousness to the term.

>>985865

do you actually think the best poets don't work very hard at their poems

because that would be a dumb thing

>>985870

you have never read a biography of any poet

>>985869
No I think for the best poets, poems flow from them freely, in dionysian ecstacies. Seriously, hard-work does not a poem make. Perhaps it takes a certain discipline, but not hard work.

>>985873
I have read biographies of Rimbaud and Lorca and neither seemed very keen on this hard work business. Rimbaud, maybe, but only when he had given up poetry for gun running

>>985873
Neither have you.

If you linger on a poem too long (clearly excluding epics), it loses purpose.

There is a difference between working endlessly on a single poem and the amount of work it takes to develop your own style and get anything published.

Are you a hot gay, OP? If so, post pics, we could party.

>>985865

>toughest artforms
>not if you are gifted. if poetry is tough you should try >something that comes naturally to you and you enjoy.

Wow, no. You are so far off.

"Not genius--work."

- quote from one of my ex-professor's poems.

(His name is Rodney Jones, and he will blow your mind.)

The trait that I think makes someone a poet as opposed to a "scribbler of rhymes" is that a poet is possessed by a need to write poetry. It's not just that he likes word play or has an image of what a poet should be or enjoys fiddling about metre. Poets feel as if they must write poetry. For some, they feel agitated when they haven't written for a while and the poetry comes bursting out. For others, their brains are constantly abuzz with lyrical phrases and ideas for scenes that must be captured in verse. No matter which type of poet you are, this instinct to write, and inability to stop writing, is what makes you a poet.

>>985880

"Too long" is subjective and essentially meaningless term

>There is a difference between working endlessly on a single poem and the amount of work it takes to develop your own style and get anything published.

No there isn't, it's all work

ITT: not poets

>>985882
I'm slim, fairly objectively attractive. I also have a boyfriend and refuse to post pics on 4chan.

Regardless, I am in utmost agreement with >>985886

>>985886

>No matter which type of poet you are, this instinct to write, and inability to stop writing, is what makes you a poet.

Add one's outlook on life and having an eye for words, and I'll agree.

Some people just have verbal diarhea...

>>985889
My point was, if you work hard at a poem ie. sitting down to work on it, you likely won't produce much (good, anyhow.)

Perhaps that is an idiosyncratic trait, but I also find they flow better when I do not actively try to write them.

I never write anything much longer than 80-100 lines at most though, so take as you will.

>So /lit/
>I am a poet.

>Where I stopped reading

>>985891

UGH. :(

Do you want to have camsex with me? All the good poets have affairs.

>>985896
>If you sit down to work on and subsequently revise a poem it will be bad
>Poems should spring from your fingertips onto a page fully formed

I can already tell I'd hate your poetry. I was defending you but now I'm convinced you don't deserve to be called a poet.

>>985902
All the good poets had despair as well.

I'm happy with mediocrity.

>>985906

The fuck are you talking about?

I'm done with YOU.

>No matter which type of poet you are, this instinct to write, and inability to stop writing, is what makes you a poet.

Not being absolutely fucking terrible is also part of it.

So is not calling yourself a poet if you're terrible.

What I mean is, I make Hot Pockets. That's how I feed myself. But I have a passion for Hot Pockets, and I make sure that I microwave them to perfection. The centers are never cold. Every cubic centimeter of that Hot Pocket is equal in temperature, an ideal temperature, where cheese and pepperoni become one within my mouth. There are times when I burn my lip, but this doesn't matter. For I am a serious chef, and I take my craft, my Hot Pocket microwaving, very seriously.

Oh wait, I'm not a fucking chef at all.

>>985904
Adding words that were not implied.

Revising, polishing up a poem is much different than writing the basis of it. If you have to sit down with the goal of writing a poem, you are going to write shit.

If you go about your day and build up the piece from sparks throughout the day until it is worthy to be written down and later edited and polished, it will be more efficient.

>>985896

If you ever hit up a university library you'll be able to find the published manuscripts of lots of poets, which will be filled with multiple versions of their poems, complete with crossings-out, marginal notations, tense shifts, question marks, arrows suggesting the movement of a line or two, etc., in different pen types, pencils, basically any writing instrument

That is, it'll be filled with the evidence of their hard work.

>>985914
I explained my error of wording above.

>>985910

Thank YOU.

That's the point I've been trying to make this entire thread...

>>985910
A chef cooks.

You don't.

Therefore you can consider yourself an incredible hot-pocket technician.

>>985910
Of course you aren't a chef if you pop hot pockets into a microwave. No one doubts this. We can agree here.

If you make poetry by filling in a template of some sort (a poem recipe) then you are also not a poet. We can agree here.

Luckily, what everyone else is talking about has no relation to your situation. There is no poetry microwave.

>>985922

The end of this:

>go[ing] about your day and build[ing] up the piece from sparks throughout the day until it is worthy to be written down and later edited and polished

literally is "sit[ting] down with the goal of writing a poem".

>>985926

What if I make badass chile with a recipe of my own invention, and then sell it at a bake sale?

THEN am I a chef?

>No

>>985938

>and by chile I mean chili

>>985933
Literally.

But figuratively, the poem is already composed, but simply not yet put to paper.

>>985941

>not yet put to paper

nor chiseled into perfection.

>>985941

>But figuratively, the poem is already composed

A poem, maybe. Not the poem. Just writing something down can reveal something you haven't thought of about the words.

>If you ever hit up a university library you'll be able to find the published manuscripts of lots of poets, which will be filled with multiple versions of their poems, complete with crossings-out, marginal notations, tense shifts, question marks, arrows suggesting the movement of a line or two, etc., in different pen types, pencils, basically any writing instrument

>>985947
I'm aware of your greentext and already responded to that.

I retain the opinion that coming up with the original poem is the important aspect of the process, and the so called 'work' of revising and primping is secondary, and in my experience, not the 'hard' step.

It's subjective, but I personally find it easier to chisel a statue out of stone than trying to chisel one before I've yet bought the stone.

by "poet" do you mean "unemployed"? you can't really call yourself a poet just becuase you write poetry

>>985956


...you should really read threads before you post in them, bro.

>>985951

>I'm aware of your greentext and already responded to that.

No you didn't, because you don't understand what it means.

There is no fundamental difference between the first word written and the last word added to a poem. Neither is of more importance for having been written at a different period in time. The whole sense of a poem can often turn on an edit of no more than a few words. The "original" poem is not the poem.

on a related note: I'm searching for manly poetry at the moment. Can be written by gays, i don't give a fuck.

>>985961

>The whole sense of a poem can often turn on an edit of no more than one comma

Fix'd

>>985961
No it isn't, but without the original spark there would be nothing to edit or to turn around.

>>985963

I'll continue pimping my ex-professor who was a poet laureate. He was pretty manly, a southern guy who grew up on a farm punching horses or some shit. But he's married... to a woman.

Rodney Jones. You can find some of his works online (though not his best, imo). "Kingdom of the Instant" is probably one of my favorites...

>>985963
Bukowski's poetry is manly. 90% of it is shit, but it's manly.

>>985968

*favorite collections, I mean

>>985965

And without your mother there would be no poem, so? Is she an integral part of the poem for being earlier in the chain of cause and effect? When the final product is presented do you think anyone is going to accord greater importance to the words you wrote first? Is a line less admirable for being contingent on an inferior predecessor?

>>985963

Patrick Lane, try his "New and Selected Poetry"

my favourite is either because I never learned, or this fairly long one about dying Aztecs

>>985959

I think this guy is just tired of all these self-proclaimed poets.

>>985925
>>985926

I think we're taking the Hot Pocket metaphor a little literally.

What I mean is, if I start microwaving tasty Hot Pockets, and call myself a chef, I'm sure I'd get a few people coming to my place and eating Hot Pockets. And they'd call me "quirky," "ironic," etc. And they would think that I am a chef too. They would call me some kind of ironic, culinary pioneer.

But real culinary experts would call me a crock of shit.

I'm just tired (MAD) at these "poets," people who say-

>I'm a poet.
>I'm a writer.
>I'm an artist.

These are usually people doing shit as a hobby, basically. I play tennis four times a week, but I sure as hell don't call myself a tennis player. I lean to the right on my forehand sometimes. My serve isn't entirely accurate. I go to the slice backhand too often. And beyond that my game is riddled with mistakes, and I couldn't compete with a real tennis player, so why would I call myself a tennis player?

When my girlfriend calls me a writer, it makes me uncomfortable. I might be a little more talented than some people (in her eyes), and to me that means nothing, as I don't feel that I've produced anything meaningful. More importantly, I don't have much that I am proud of.

Why do these so-called poets, who write meaningless words, who know nothing about anything, call themselves poets? Their incredible lack of self-awareness offends me, and I don't understand how they can become so proud so quickly.

>>985963
Hemingway wrote some poetry. You know it's manly, but it sucks.

>Their incredible lack of self-awareness offends me, and I don't understand how they can become so proud so quickly.

Well said, sir.

>>985963
Ted Hughes was one virile bastard. I think it's the Celtic in him.

>>985982
Funny how much discussion stemmed over a simple observation.

If it makes you happy, I will never call myself a poet again.

I'm simply say I am someone who writes and publishes poetry.

Happy?

>>985963

Would this be manly?

Raymond Carver is pretty manly, last I heard.

>Photograph of My Father in His Twenty-Second Year

October. Here in this dank, unfamiliar kitchen
I study my father's embarrassed young man's face.
Sheepish grin, he holds in one hand a string
of spiny yellow perch, in the other
a bottle of Carlsbad Beer.

In jeans and denim shirt, he leans
against the front fender of a 1934 Ford.
He would like to pose bluff and hearty for his posterity,
Wear his old hat cocked over his ear.
All his life my father wanted to be bold.

But the eyes give him away, and the hands
that limply offer the string of dead perch
and the bottle of beer. Father, I love you,
yet how can I say thank you, I who can't hold my liquor either,
and don't even know the places to fish?

>>985968
>punching horses or some shit
What the hell kind of job is that?

I too am a gay writer of poetry! We need a support group

>>985996

Not sure if serious

>>985996

would it be a sexy support group?

>>986001

>>986009

I always confuse him with David Cross

>>986013
I read your post and thought-
>But that IS David Cross.