/lit/ - Literature

reposting from last thread:

>>9635295
>>9635305
Most popular are Stranger in a Strange Land, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Starship Troopers and Time Enough for Love plus his short fiction which is mostly collected in The Past Through Tomorrow.
My personal favorite is Friday.

>>9635541
Time Enough for Love is a fucking mess though.

We need fresh memes.

>>9635618
Maybe even good ones this time

I'm really enjoying Bakker. does this make me an autismo?

>>9635637
More of a pervert, I'd have said. Either way you'll fit right in.

What do you think of these titles:
>He Spoke Darkness
>Father Is Crying
>Man Made Dark

Are they too edgy?

>>9635637
Nice try, Bakker. We're not falling for your shilling here. Go light a joint or something.

>>9635677
Those are horrific. I can already see the photoshop cover of a guy wearing a hood with most of his face obscured by the shadow.

>>9635677
They sound like the titles of school shooter manifestos.

>>9635677
I don't know if you can really beat Dying Inside as far as titles go.

>>9635677
Man Made Dark is the only one that isn't genuinely one of the worst I've ever heard

>>9635677
>>9635738
Man Made Dark should only be the title of a pulp sci-fi book from the 60s about a racist white guy getting turned black and experiencing discrimination, changing his worldview.

>>9635753
I think it works because it can be interpreted as man-made darkness, or something along those lines, which can work in some stories.

>>9635756
>>9635753
I haven't realized it can be interpreted as a man who is made dark. Fucking hilarious.
I meant it as man-made darkness.

>>9635677
How about these as alternatives (don't know what your story is about, only going from your titles)
>Existing in the Nothingness
>Void Released
>Darkness Behind the Eyes
>Gushing Black
>Emptiness Expanded
>Whirlpool at the Heart of the Void
>Erebus Wept
>A Day with Nyx
>Seeing with the Black Moon
>The Sun Deep within the Black Hole
>Gravity of Nothingness
>Escaping the Void
>Night Always Falls
>The Darkness of Day

Tell me what you think of those. Do they fit your story?

So I watched the 1985 Vampire Hunter D anime after reading that it was inspired by Book Of The New Sun, a claim which I dismissed as being spurious, but one I wanted to check the veracity of anyway. The setting is BOTN-like with a mixture of old and future tech, and the protag is similar to Severian in his awkward and moody attitude and black clothes + long sword. Overall Vampire Hunter D is much more gothic in tone, however, and the treatment of religion is limited to the prominently worn crucifixes. So I'm a little sceptical about BOTNS being an influence here.

>>9635880
>Darkness Behind the Eyes
>Gushing Black
These two would fit into the story almost perfectly. Especially Darkness Behind the Eyes.
Well done, mate.

>>9635513
>tfw you're about to start the sword of truth series

Wish I had done this as a teenager.

Really need to expand the mental library for my own literary works.

>>9635892
Now watch the sequel.

>>9635880
These sound like names to make Rockbands.

>>9635909
No problem mate. Glad you enjoyed them. You're going to make that book cover expensive with all the black you will be putting on it.

We should all write a novel together.

Is red rising a YA meme book, an airport novel, or is it actually good?

>>9636056
It would be shit.

>>9635892
I always like seeing similarities in works. I saw Castle in the Sky recently and was stunned by how often I recognized similarities in other works (admittedly mostly video games).

>>9636056
I thought /sffg/ hates writing.

>>9636091
>he thinks people waste time making memes for shit books
It good. But you have to put up with the YAesque opening, with the finger in the air/hand on chest BS. When the hanging passes it's all up from there. You will call in sick to work to finish it(I did).

>>9636091
Being a NYT bestseller and having that quote on the cover makes me want to burn it. I'll see if I can find a summary somewhere, I could use a laugh.

>>9636128
>finger in the air/hand on chest
What meme is this?

>>9636124
We do. That is a wannabe author trying to steal our nubile ideas and stamp his name on it.
He would probably have some of you sad saps proofreading his actual book.

>>9636136
Hunger Memes probably

>>9636136
From Hunger Games. I wanted to drop this book so hard, but the shill made me promise that I would read past that, and it was wonderful. Now I need that promise from you.

>>9636130
>The novel, set on a future planet Mars, follows lowborn miner Darrow as he infiltrates the ranks of the elite Golds.
Oh, fuck me. This is why I don't read much sci-fi, so often it's shit like this. I'm sorry, but I don't want to read about real-world problems in my escapist entertainment. Especially when it's something as screamingly obvious as class division.

>>9636144
>>9636145
Oh right, that dumb salute. I only saw the movie for HG, but unless it's radically different, I'm sure I'd hate the book too.

>>9636138
>implying you have any ideas worth stealing

>>9636150
It was written by a Republican you assuming ass.

>>9636124
For a while we had a lot of "writing is hard, I should just kill myself" blogposts that were getting seriously annoying. This isn't the correct place for generic writing advice, /lit/ has threads for that. It has to somehow be SFF related to make it even mildly interesting here.

>>9636210
How is this relevant? I didn't talk about the author at all, you assuming ass.

Thriftbooks is great but what is this shit:
>Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 11:10 AM Arrived USPS Facility ATLANTA, GA
>Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 5:03 PM Departed Shipping Partner Facility, USPS Awaiting Item GLENDALE HEIGHTS, IL
>Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 10:55 AM Arrived Shipping Partner Facility, USPS Awaiting Item GLENDALE HEIGHTS, IL
>Monday, June 12, 2017 at 2:20 PM Picked Up by Shipping Partner, USPS Awaiting Item ATLANTA, GA
do they always send their shit back and forth before just sending it on? is that why it takes so goddamned long to get deliveries from them?

>>9636208
>implying you have any ideas worth stealing
>he says while copying my ideas when I'm not wordart posting

>>9636138
Don't people usually like sharing their ideas? As long as actual writing isn't being discussed, what's the problem?

Been on a bit of a Lovecraft kick recently. I just learned about a story called The Black Brat of Dunwich, which seems to be a retelling of The Dunwich Horror that casts Wilbur in a heroic light. Sounds interesting, but I'm wondering if it's any good. Anyone here read it?

>Infinity Concerto
>Majipoor Trilogy
Just grabbed these from a used book store for around $4.50, did I do well, /sffg/?

Can I get a quick rundown on Anthony Ryan?

>>9635541
>SIASL
>Mary Sue Martian screws hot geniuses and murders fools with magic
>Harsh Mistress
>Polyamorous moon frontiers and their pet AI can do no wrong, bomb Earth for the libertarian paradise they always wanted
>Starship Troopers
>Johnny Rico bombs bugs and contemplates old civics lectures
>Time Enough For Love
>where to even start
>Friday
>it stops being rape if you decide to enjoy it
STICK WITH JUVENILIA
at least he didn't rec Glory Road

>>9636124
That's just Wordart. Don't let yourself be cowed, he doesn't belong here and the mods don't punish writeposting no matter how much he whines.

>>9636449
he turns out to be OK with class divisions just not with the upper caste shirking their duty

>>9636693
If that's accurate, I don't think I'll ever look into Heinlein's books again. Not that Starship Troopers impressed me much.

>>9636710
no, look into Heinlein, just pre-SIASL Heinlein. There's plenty of good stuff there. Double Star especially is an underappreciated gem, but Citizen of the Galaxy and Door into Summer are IMO his best.

Oh, and Tunnel in the Sky.
>tfw no Zulu waifu to start an accidental frontier colony with

>>9636708
I still don't care. Sure, that's a bit different than what I expected, but the end result is the same: The author expositing about how they want the world to be. If I want to get into philosophy, sociology, and politics, I'll read some philosophy, sociology, and political text books, I don't want this shit in my entertainment. Even when it's something I agree with completely, and usually it is, I still don't want it. Like, hey, Heinlein, I thought this book would be about guys killing giant alien bugs with kickass powered armor. But nope, he just can't shut the fuck up about philosophy, sociology, and politics.

>>9636721
Eh, I have enough on my backlog already, I honestly doubt I'd ever get to Heinlein anyway.

>>9636128
What about it makes it more than what it seems to be? Because the premise makes it sound more in line with hunger games than Heinlein, or pkd

>>9636786
Why bother reading? Nothing wrong with escapism, but I feel like video games, movies, etc are much better media for that outlet

>>9636802
Because I like to have variety in my life? Though I will admit that out of books, video games, movies, TV, and comics, books are near the bottom of the list for me. I'm not saying this happens in all books, just a lot of them. But there are still a bunch of books I've enjoyed. Like the Craft Sequence books, which I need to get back to.

Now that The Unholy Consult is finally upon us, can anyone recommend some essential Bakkercore to whet the appetite?

>>9636786
>the end result is the same: The author expositing about how they want the world to be.
no it isn't, RR is mostly about killing fools with spears. Golden Son is mostly about killing fools with spaceships. Morning Star is mostly about killing fools with bendyswords.

>>9636813
Maybe it's just me, but I have yet to find books that are good for just escapism. Everytime someone recommends me a book that's good for that, it just ends up being shit because there's a better analogue in another media. Sff books tend to be very time consuming, and the value in terms of raw entertainment is not very high when considering time spent. Books like Malazan, Stormlight Archive, Kingkiller Chronicles, are perfect examples of this. They might be entertaining to some degree, but there is way too much time spent on them, for not enough entertainment. I'd rather play games because there's a visceral experience there. If I read something, there has to be more than just entertainment because it's too fucking time consuming

>>9636786
>Like, hey, Heinlein, I thought this book would be about guys killing giant alien bugs with kickass powered armor.
There's your problem. Someone lied to you.

>>9636887
audiobooks breh

find a good author, get their works, then listen to it all while you're weeding your yard or declogging your shitter

>>9636887
I feel you. Like, I always prefer manga to anime, because with manga I can get the same story with only a fraction of the time. I tried to watch the first episode of Naruto Shippuden on a suggestion, and I wanted to tear my head off before it was over because it was sooooo slooooow and I knew I could've spent the same amount of time blazing through five chapters of the same material.

>>9636937
I've thought of this before, but I don't think it would work, because I just know I'd get more caught up with whatever it is I'm doing and start tuning out what I'm listening to. It's already happened to me when I'm trying to listen to YouTube videos.

Actually, I think these two things are related. One problem with the human brain is that it's a lot faster at receiving information than it is at sending information.

>>9636887
Each series you've mentioned is full of padding for people that want to get lost in a fantasy world. There are better series out there however.

>>9636625
He's good at writing one PoV, and should stick to whole books on a single PoV. Blood song is the best example of this, and the books after this have a severe drop in quality because he can't maintain the same level of quality across multiple PoVs.

This is true in his dragon safari book too, but not as bad as in the blood song sequels.

>>9636974
Not him, but could you name some please?

>>9636983
What are books you've liked?

Some of my favorites are
The Amber Chronicles by Roger Zelazny
The Vurt trilogy by Jeff Noon
The Sleepless series by Nancy Kress

>>9637016
Eh, nevermind. I don't think our tastes are overlap.

>>9636150
It's not about real world problems, the setting is inspired by Brave New World with Roman aesthetics and is written as an action adventure in a sci fi settings.
It's not more political than your average sci fi novel (eg Dreaming Void or whatever).

>>9637059
>Brave New World
>It's not more political than your average sci fi novel
Thanks for reminding me why I shouldn't bother with sci-fi.

>>9636091
>Is red rising a YA meme book
The memiest

>>9637066
Is your reading comprehension grade school level? All your replies in this thread were dumb as fuck. Like you don't even really have a point, you just read one garbage book thinking it was something else and now you reject all sci fi on the basis that it might be "political" in a not defined way, even when people who read the books say that's wrong. Why are you even here if you are too stubborn to listen to answers to your questions?

>>9637066
He said the book's setting is inspired by Brave New World, not that the book is similar to it. From what I gather, the classism is just a background thing.

>>9637038
yeah i usually ask for someone's books before making recommendations

>>9636887
You sound like you have ADHD

>>9637099
No, I just want to manage my time efficiently. The fact that I can do that to begin with shows the opposite of adhd

>>9637120
No it's pretty indicative of ADHD, where you have this minimum threshold of how much information needs to be bombarding you at any given moment to be "worth your time". It shows you can't concentrate on things and need constant stimulation.

>>9636974
I think that's the problem with fantasy. Authors spend a lot of time with world building padding, but it needs to be tied in with the narrative. LOTR did this the best because it barely told you anything about the world that wasn't immediately relevant to the story/characters. You didn't hear about how gandalf was actually an angel because that doesn't serve the story.

>>9636813
You unironically sound like a huge common denominator pleb

>>9637135
Are you even replying to the right person? I don't need to be bombarded constantly with simulation. I'm literally making a value judgement based on time spent v reward, which is a fucking normal thing to do as a consumer in a capitalist society. I didn't say I constantly need entertainment. In fact, I'm pretty sure I implied that I read for more than just entertainment

>>9637152
Don't say that because you're gonna get called a pseud!

>>9637152
>t. pseud

>>9637166
Pretty sure he's talking about the vidya.

>>9637236
Because if I'm focused on getting entertainment, then I'll play vidya over reading. It's not me saying that I'd rather vidya than read

>Too dumb to understand botns

>>9636974
>Each series you've mentioned is full of padding for people that want to get lost in a fantasy world
It's hard to be immersed by shit authors

>>9636834
What about Bakker do you like? The GRI? The warring? The hateful characters? The weird tolkien/dune inverted story? Or the cuckoldry

>>9637343
Unironically this. I feel like there's so much i'm not getting. What should I read to fully understand it?

>>9637517
>What should I read to fully understand it?
BotNS again. And again. And again.

But Vance, Borges and The Holy Bible wouldn't hurt either.

>trying for the 3rd or 4th time to start my novel over again from scratch
>only half a single-spaced page of progress per day
>It's actually more poorly written than what I had before

why does this get harder the more I try? Arn't I supposed to be getting better at this?

>>9638254
Write short stories about your characters / setting and do a fix up to make a novel out of it.

>>9638307
Is there a single decent novel that did that?

>>9638332
City by Clifford D. Simak I suppose is the only one that comes to mind immediately

>>9638332
Foundation Trilogy

>>9638344
>>9638399

That aside. I have my my plot planned out. I've been planning this for too damn long to start over with short stories. I need to get it out of head

>>9638422
Well then just fucking write it instead of just "rewriting the first chapter" like every stupid wannabe writer who somehow can't fathom that you're supposed to edit and rewrite AFTER you've finished the novel, or at the very least a substantial part of it. You guys are honestly just the worst. EDIT AFTERWARDS unless it's just your subconscious telling you that your idea and plot is shit.

Fellow "writers" just make me so mad Jesus Christ.

>>9638461
My last draft made it nearly halfway through the book before I realized that 90% of the early-game plot was too retarded and autistic to salvage

>>9638254
It's not harder or worse, you've just gotten better at spotting bullshit.

Congrats on your progress.

>>9638533
but my old work looks better

>>9638254
Be happy you can think of a plot faggot.

>>9638737
Thinking up a plot is easy, literally anyone can do that.The tricky part about writing is trying to do justice to the ideas you came up with.

>>9636091
It's hunger games.

>>9638824
I have never been able to think of a plot.

Bakker: how good of an indicator of the content, tone, and quality of the rest of the series is the prologue to The Darkness That Comes Before? I heard an interesting interview with him and am looking for something to read in between a couple very dry nonfictions. I liked the Anasurimbor character's monastic self control and ability to read the other man, but the fight scene was cringy anime shit. Does it get better? Is it as philosophical as the interview suggested?

What is your last read/reading/to read, /sffg/? Does /lit/ even still do this?

>Deep Navigation
>Zima Blue and Other Stories and Pandora Hearts
>Beyond the Aquila Rift

>>9639000
Pandora Hearts was so damn good.

Last readings were Raven Stratagem, Prisoners of Power and Makers of the Universe.

>goodreads down

>>9639033
I'm trying to marathon the last several volumes. It's like true route of a fucking VN.

>>9639000
Last I read was A Scanner Darkly.
Can't decide if I should read More Than Human or A Maze Of Death next.

>>9639043
>tfw trying to find a book with as mindfucking as Pandora Hearts
The only thing I've found so far is Too Like the Lightning and there's almost no similarities other than the fact that one of the characters is a bit like Oz Vessalius and can bring toys to life, a Vincent like character, dead people and a character who gives me Jack Vessalius vibes about 10% of the time. Too bad that interesting story line about things that happened in the past is only about 15% of the novel and it's science fiction rather than fantasy.

Although if you like the PH like plot, you might want to try D Gray Man because of the velocity of suffering.

=====================================================
Of the last batch of books I read Raven Stratagem was a bit disappointing, Jose Farmer's shit was awful, Prisoners of Power was quite good but mostly in terms of Strugatsky books:
To Hard to be a God >> Roadside Picnic >>>>>>>>> Prisoners of Power
Prisoners is the Strugatsky's trying to go Orwell.

I'm going to finish up on the rest of Jacques the Fatalist and probably some PKD but I also have Demolished Man and perhaps some GGK vying for some attention. We'll see.

>>9639080
>*Hard to be a God
And forgot I'm partway through Slaughterhouse Five. I think it's more hilarious but thematically less inspiring compared to Cat's Cradle.

>>9638578
No it doesn't, that's nostalgia talking.

Your first 3-5 attempts will all suck hard though.

>>9639080
It's definitely not the most mindfuck media I've read but I like the directions and twists it is presenting. I wouldn't mind finding more like it, with abrupt shifts in story due to reveals toward the end. Finding them done well is so rare.

>>9639100
Give me all your mindfucks please.

>>9639100
*
My quota for mindfuck material is never met.

>>9639101
GetBackers ends interestingly but it takes a long time to get there. Tower of God's background setting has the potential to be mindfuck-y with its multiple Towers on multiple worlds deal. Uhhh, staying within the realm of manga/related here. The biggest mindfuck for me, personally, was ever17.

>>9639104
Same but I feel desensitized to a lot of media so interesting twists or even occurrences rarely grasp me anymore.

>>9639123
I will take every mindfuck I can get, thanks anon.

>>9638254
>tfw your terrible joke edits haunt you forever

Where to start with Borges?

>>9639124
Definitely check out ever17 and 999 then. Also, consider getting into Twilight Zone.

>>9635892
I was the one who wrote that. All of the original artwork behind Vampire Hunter D was drawn by the same artist who did the Japanese covers for Book of the New Sun. I don't remember where I read it first but after googling I found one piece that does acknowledge the link. It's also one of the most autistic things I've ever seen in my life and I only made it about halfway through, read at your own risk.

http://animeright.news/realpilleater/the-book-of-the-angels-egg-yoshitaka-amano-and-gene-wolfe

>>9637517
It should make a lot more sense on your second reading. Almost everything that happens is actually explained directly at some point, just there's so much to know and it's all delivered in such odd places that it's hard to notice first time around. Second reading of Citadel of the Autarch is incredible.

https://youtu.be/2twfSIeToZE?t=55
Sci-fi from the 80's was the best

>>9636887
>books like malazan.

>>9636710
If you're interested in Heinlein, start with the juveniles. Then read SIASL. If you don't like it, don't even think about trying to read anything he wrote afterwards.

>>9638254
This will encourage you.
He only wrote about 1 or 2 pages in 6 hours.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub_09NgFjrA

>>9639141
>'
He didn't write a lot. Many people would recommend Fictions, but I would recommend Labyrinths because it contains a lot of his well known short stories, as well as his parables and some short essays. If you choose Labyrinths I would suggest skipping the first story until you've read some of the more straightforward ones from the same volume.

>>9639454
That animerigh piece came up in my googling as well. Like you, I threw my hands up halfway through the piece like Seinfeld leaving the cinema. I wonder if he posts on SFFG,

>>9639000
reading: Galactic Pot-Healer by Philip K Dick. I'm halfway through this one. It's more whimsical than other PKD books, and not a lot happens, but it's kooky and off-the-wall enough to be an entertaining light read so far. I feel like this book is PKD trying to write an allegory or parable about how to live meaningfully, for the hippie crowd. We shall see.

>>9639000
fifth head of cerberus
too like the lightning
library at mount char, magician king, tltl sequel

>>9636625
Blood Song was very good, definitely recommended. The sequel, Tower Lord, was soporific during the first two thirds of the book then became alright. Not recommended unless you really want to know what happens to the characters and are not afraid of sleeping through 600 pages or so.
That's about all I know about Anthony Ryan.

>>9639141
Read The Aleph

>>9636625
I honestly hated Blood Song right from the get go when it turned out that it was literally an orphan going to school and doing some edgy things.

And the book went nowhere. Although I finished it I was not motivated to pick up teh next one.

>>9638254
Guys give me ideas for a "this is not your blog macro".

>>9639000
>tfw Sanderson is becoming like GURM
>tfw Sanderson turned an avid fanboy like cosmerefag away with his BS YA novels
>tfw you didn't see cosmerefag sperging about the cosmere in at least a year
>tfw Baxter and other scifi bugs bit cosmerefag and he is addicted to them now
Maybe November will bring him back to us.

>>9639000
>Children of Dune
>The Long Cosmos
>God-Emperor of Dune/Fall of Hyperion/Fifth Head of Cerberus
Not sure what will I read next, I'll choose when I finish the current book.

What is Edgedancer about?
Do i have to read it before Oathbringer?

>reading red loli
>in a convent with a bunch of old women
When does the GRI start?

>>9640136
kek'd at pic
haven't seen it before

>>9640558
Then you need to lurk more newfriend.
How many spurdos you saw?

>>9640576
I probably just haven't clicked on the sanderson one before, I loved the breeks one though

>>9639871
how you finding
>Mycroft's gender rant: the novel
so far

>>9639000
>Last Read
American Gods
>Reading
I'm rereading The Magicians trilogy
>To Read
Elric of Melnibone

>>9640668
>whenever he can, he will
it's getting annoying

why the fuck does some future convict have the ear of so many influential people?

>>9640332
You don't, but you should.

It's 200 pages about Lift visiting her friend, the Emperor

>>9641000
and darkness

>>9639000
>Last read
The Heart of What Was Lost by Tad Williams
>Reading
The Children of Hurin
>to Read
Promise of Blood (Powder Mage trilogy)

>As(c)ians
Why the thinly-veiled racism?

>>9641585
Look up what ascia means

>>9639000
>Last Read
The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood
>Reading
REAMDE by Neal Stephenson
>To Read
The fancy hasn't struck me yet. Perhaps one of Asimov's robot collections as I recently bought a pile of his stuff.

Learning Japanese. Are there any famous Japanese sff books out there /sffg/ can recommend?

Any books about settling/living in a world filled with dinosaurs or other megafauna?

>>9641593
Look up historical sentiment about Asians, e.g. the Yellow Peril, and explain why the description of Ascians completely mirrors it. Frankly, this in combination with the wide-spread misogony in BoTNS has completely put me off it. Shame on you, Gene Wolfe.

>>9641628
Dune lol

Are these good books to make a GRI chart with?
http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/22136.Young_Adult_Books_About_Rape_Sexual_Abuse
https://www.goodreads.com/list/tag/rape
https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/incest
http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/41891.Books_with_Incest_as_a_Main_Theme
http://www.goodreads.com/list/show/42217.Incest_is_Fine
https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/sibling-incest

What's the best of George MacDonald's works?

>>9641874
Lilith is the best but you should really read Phantastes first.

>>9641878
Fuck, Lilith is the only one I've read so far. It was really good though.

When I picked it up at my college's library, it was a book with both Phantastes and Lilith in it, and on the table of contents someone wrote right next to Lilith, "Don't even waste your time"

>>9641887
The rest of his work is less mature; fairy tales for kids. You can read it if you like but it's more of an academic interest thing. Another anon I spoke to disagreed, he thought there was more to them, but even so they're no Lilith.

>>9641887
>>9641922
also; https://ballydowse.bandcamp.com/track/george-macdonald

>>9641673
Is it a prevalent point? Dune seems pretty famous for a book where giant animals are more than a decorative piece in a planet. But in lack of a alternative, I'll read it anyway, it's about time too.

>>9640043
>pumps us for ideas
>while posting an image criticizing pumping /sffg/ for ideas

>>9642037
>on the fucking book board
>can't read
I'm not even surprised. If you haven't noticed I'm not a starving / aspiring author.

>>9641922
They're fairy tales but there's still a lot an adult can take out of them, especially The Day Boy and the Night Girl, which is gobsmackingly beautiful, and The Golden Key, which is so loaded with symbolism I have no idea how kids are expected to enjoy it.

I've heard good things about The Princess and the Goblin too but haven't read it myself.

do the SoIaF be good?

>>9642117
it think it do but it dont

>>9636625
Read Blood Song and stop

>>9642163
word cuz, but do the writin be on point bruh u feel me?

I want to get into science fiction with something easy to grasp. I started reading Banks and my mind is being thoroughly bamboozled. Is Neuromancer a good start for Cyberpunk?

>>9639000
fifth quarter/ no quarter/ ???

>>9642175
are you for real my nig?

>>9635880
Jesus fuck. You can have a clean shave with those edgy names.

>>9642228
im always real cousin u kno i keep it one hunned pocent @ all times

>>9642176
It's not really as difficult as people like to say, go for it.

'Zima Blue and Other Stories' was neat. The last story, Zima Blue itself, had a cool end.

>>9640136
There is generally nobody around to discuss Cosmere lore or other books I've read. There is only Cosmere for a brief time once every ~2 years seems to be the trend. And, of course, like all generals, this thread is chockful of underage children. Not much of a reason to be here.

>>9642249

here is some cosmere lore to talk about?

why are the people form dayside white and the people from nightside black?

should be the other way around.

>>9642249
Looks like Brandon finally finished Stormlight 3

>>9642176
>Is Neuromancer a good start for Cyberpunk?
I thought it was a little boring. I'd read Blindsight if you like horror or Mote in God's eye or ringworld if you like space and aliens. If cyberpunk is absolutely necessary, the only one I've read and didn't dislike was Altered Carbon, it's nice, I thought it had a more noir/crime drama feel to it than cyberpunk though.

I finished The Three-Body Problem yesterday. It was pretty neat, but my autism was triggered a little bit at the end with the way that the Trisolarians disrupted Earth's scientists because they used quantum entanglement to spy on humans, but superluminal communication (or any transformation of information at all using entanglement) is explicitly banned in quantum mechanics by the no-communication theorem. It was a little disappointing, since the rest of the story appeared well thought-out, but some level of science-magic is inevitable in most SF I guess. I'm still planning to read the next two.

>>9642402
>superluminal communication (or any transformation of information at all using entanglement) is explicitly banned in quantum mechanics by the no-communication theorem
You only think that because Trisolarians are messing with your brain right now.

>>9642438
MWI and Bohmian Mechanics are probably Trisolarian plots, desu

>>9641866
90% of those books are not sffg.

>Last read
Embassytown by China Mieville
>Reading
The Scar by China Mieville
>to Read
Either Tigana or City of Stairs. Way of Kings is currently reading too but I'm getting bored of it a bit so I'll come back to it in the future.

Should I read Tigana or City of Stairs first

>Last read
Fire Time by Poul Anderson.
>Current Read
Going back to my LotR reread. Bree is slow.
>to read
Peter Wilkins.

>>9642553
tigana~

>>9642553
Do you want muh crusades or poo in loo revenge colonialism?

>>9642581
>Last read
hipster /sffg/-approved shit
>Current Read
hipster /sffg/-approved shit
>to read
hipster /sffg/-approved shit

>>9642553
read classic weird horror (bierce, hodgson, blackwood, machen, lovecraft, clark ashton smith, robert e howard)
contemporary shit can't compare

>>9642586
im guessing the colonialism is tigana?

>>9642594
i read want i want to read lad

>>9642607
It's actually city of miracles

>>9642611
Stairs miracles same thing

>>9642594
>trying so hard
>>9642607
>gets shot down

I'm getting some weird vibes from the villain and his henchwoman. Is this gonna go full MOMMYcore?

about to read twenty days of turin. ive heard its quite spook?

>>9642594
just curious what newer stuff youre comparing them to

>>9642402
Science magic really peaks with Death's End
better read up on the fall on Constantinople

>Billy coughed when the door was opened, and when he coughed he shit thin gruel. This was in accordance with the Third Law of Motion according to Sir Isaac Newton. This law tells us that for every action there is a reaction which is equal and opposite in direction.
>This can be useful in rocketry.

>>9641664
Ascians are real human beans who still desire to be normal despite being enslaved by pelagic mindfuckery and an evil ideology which cripples their brains. At absolute worst Wolfe is saying that The Koreans aren't bad people but once the Communism gets into them killing is a mercy.

It's impossible to imagine Wolfe killing anybody but I don't think they gave out Combat Infantry Badges to the guys who stayed in the back and polished the jeeps.

>>9641611
Lactating Gay Homosexuals and Vampire Hunter D are the big ones as far as I know. The first a really long space-opera about Space-France fighting Space-Prussia and the second is spoopy pulp monster-hunting.

>>9643668
Is this from Slaughterhouse 5? I know I've seen it somewhere before.

>>9643673
>Is this from Slaughterhouse 5
Yes. It's so fucking good.

I think that a like Cat's Cradle much more than Slaughterhouse-Five.

>tfw downloaded sword of truth and can't open the first book

Is the universe trying to tell me something here?

>>9643144
Nonsense.

What do you think of the SF Masterworks series?

>>9644213
got a lot of masterworks, most of them quality pieces. I guess I think it's bretty gud

>>9644213
high quality stuff but before i got my kindle i was pretty autistic about covers/art so hardly got them. if you dont care and want an intro to sci highly recommend you just read through them all. same with the fantasy ones too

>>9641664
Are you a man? Then grow some stones or shame on you. An oversensitive generation of effete poofs whose only rhetorical flourish is the straw man. The ascians are americans. Read Seven American Nights and see an Iranian Muslim hero destroyed by degenerate America.

>>9644276
*south americans and middle americans anyway - ascian means no shadow and implies someone living near the equator, though the soul of such a society might be implied by the name.

>few weeks ago thread was sonichu fast
>new thread every day
>invaders didn't read so they didn't stick around
>thread back to normal
Really makes you think

>>9644411
This thread is only a simulation to keep you company. and also nice digits

>>9644411
>not busy busy reading
dont post literal nothings and empty statements for no reason, dolt

why didn't those nigger valyrians develop central rhoyne basin after conquering it? Think of all the taxes

>>9644411
It's probably because there was a shitton of shitposting from pro and anti sandersonfags, splashed with a bit of erikson for whatever reason. Sandersonfags don't usually care when people trash their books, but for some reason they did recently. Maybe summer vacation? Malazanfags are always butthurt, and shitposters eat it up

Why don't the CW want to adapt The Dresden Files? I think it could be perfect on their network if handled correctly.

>>9645046
Because Dresden is a fedoralord and there's not enough teenage angst in there for the CW

>Sanderson's only objective merit was writing quickly
>started writing slowly some time ago
DROPPED

>>9645066

He either has writer's block or had a stroke.

>>9645094
>He either has writer's block
All of his books have similar plots so how is it possible to have writer's block

So is Lash THE Lucifer in The Dresden Files?, what's the working theories on that Fallen Angel?

>>9645102
>theories
>Dresden files
It's just a series for mindless entertainment. Why would anyone make theories?

>>9645101
Probably realized that anime has been doing the same thing he's been up to since Dragonball

>>9641585
>>9641593
>>9641664
>>9643669
Ascians are technically Americans.

What are some good hard sci-fi short story/novella collections worth checking out? Preferably stuff not before ~2000.

>that last book of the expanse
I don't know how you managed that many pages of nothing fucking happening.

>>9645532
I've enjoyed the short works of Ted Chiang, Peter Watts and Liu Cixin. All very good stuff.

For other collections, I must have read the entirety of Nature Futures stories from the last three years just on random lunch breaks, and while edgy, weird or just crap it's easy going stuff.

>>9645046
>being this young
>being this new
Mr Underage b&. There was already a series, 12gbs for all the eps. It was shit. They threw the "home is a natural ward against supernats" right out the door, and had some cringe inducing acting when a girl ran through Dresden's front door, ripped a piece of cloth off the wall, and allowed a skinwalker entry into Dresden's abode. I stopped it right there, and instantly shift deleted the folder.
Oh, also BOB was a hologram projection.

>>9645102
No she isn't. Read the books, it's explained.

>>9645532
Why does the time of publication matter?

>>9645616
How did you make it to the end? I dropped the series midway through book 2 when it was just repeating the story of the first and nothing interesting was happening.

>tfw overheard a long conversation about Sanderson and Goodreads while shopping for books yesterday
Other highlights were complaining that Red Mars was a difficult read. And something about mormons where they mentioned Twilight

>>9647235
Red Mars is bad though.

So are physical bookstores.

>>9647239
Perhaps. But I don't like ordering things online. I like to be able to see exactly what I get before I buy it.

It's out.

>>9647239
Physical bookstores are great, I used to sit in them and read all day

>>9647235
>And something about mormons where they mentioned Twilight
Stephenie Meyer is a mormon

Has anyone here read "Prince of Thorns"? Is it good or just some edgy novel for edgy teens?

>>9637016
>The Vurt trilogy by Jeff Noon
I tried reading the first book after someone kept on recommending it here and christ, I expected so much more but it was just YA tier bullshit. Not even to mention the main characters homosex relationship with his best friend. Why would you read that schlock?

Why are libraries so awesome?

>>9647605

I've always been a fan of good sci fi from the likes of ASSimov, Haldeman, Vance, Peter Watts.

With that being said Prince of Thorns is a fun, swashbuckling post apocalyptic romp through Europe complete with archaic technology explained via magic (such as AI, old computers, books, ancient "Builder" architecture, etc).

Spoiling a part of the book but the protagonists party eventually finds a fucking nuke.

Also zombies.

>>9647531
What is it about, Ms. Nicole?

>>9647678
seems like an interesting way to combine sci-fi and fantasy. Thanks anon, will get that monday from the library

Bros how are you surviving the wait?

>>9647839
There are literally hundreds of thousands of fantasy and sci-fi books out there. Take your pick.

>>9647839
Is Rothfuss a meme or is he ok?

>>9647914
if he writes books they are great

just be prepared to wait 3 years for the next book

>>9647914
Do you enjoy self-insert MCs who can ne'er do wrong? Then I have good news!

>>9647839
>A Novel
How disgustingly pretentious. Surely when this comes out people will realize Rothfuss was always a meme and a hack.

>>9647914
Such a bad storyteller that it's hard to believe he isn't joking at times.

>>9645011
>Malazanfags are always butthurt
As a fan, I'd say it's due to
- the criticism being seemingly based on the first few books
- the guys just want to be spoonfed absolutely everything from the get-go
- the guys are speedreading
- the guys for some reason can't realize that all characters cannot be involved in all happenings all over the world, the same way you don't spend your whole life, or even more than some years, with the few kids from kindergarden worth hanging out with.

>>9647839
It's going to be another novel about wild elf sex and nothing else.

What is the most complicated plot ever written in genre fiction?

>>9648083
The holy bible

>>9648130
Yeah it has a great character development. The main protagonist goes from worse than hitler to jesus

>>9648130
Is it really that complicated though? Complex, certainly, but the Bible isn't particularly long. I haven't read it so I don't know.

>>9647937
>when this comes out
Oh. You're that optimistic fag who keeps saying Winds of Winter and Doors of Stone will be released before the two authors justly demise.

>>9647960
Ignore him. He is one of those brainlets that did all of what you mentioned. He probably dropped it part way and feels like he has the authority to call the books on his perceived faults.

>>9647960
>the criticism being seemingly based on the first few books
>It becomes good at book five
Why bother reading garbage before you get to the good stuff when you can just read something that's good from the start

>>9648145
The entire bible is only 800 pages. Compare how good it is compared to the 1000 page drivel that people like GRRM, Rothfuss, and Sanderson write

>>9647960
>10 book epic
>needs a "few" books to get it's shit together and hook readers
It's garbage

>>9645011
>anti sandersonfags
Everyone here. Sandersonfags come from reddit

>>9648260
>>it becomes good at book five
Not what I said. What I said was that you can't say how the entire series is based on the beginning of the series, because you don't get the full character/plot developments etc etc, which much of the criticism is about.
Anyway, the entire series is good. Sure, book 1 is worse than the others, but it's still good.
>>9648275
It didn't need a few books to get its shit together. Most readers need a few books to understand, but some readers can't deal with having to actually pay attention when reading. One of the criticizers in these threads was someone who read to turn his brain off, and then he complains that he didn't understand Malazan/that it was too complicated.

>>9642592
>LOTR is hipster

>>9648299
Maybe LOTR would've been hipster in some freak parallel universe where they made movies out of Book of the New Sun instead.

>>9648289
> Most readers need a few books to understand, but some readers can't deal with having to actually pay attention when reading
Acting pretentious and elitist like outer-/lit/ will just make more people make fun of you guys
>you can't say how the entire series is based on the beginning of the series, because you don't get the full character/plot developments etc etc, which much of the criticism is about.
They dropped it because they didn't like it. Who are you to say their opinions don't count because they never read every book in a series that they don't like

How is the Void Trilogy by Peter Hamilton?

>>9648289
>Malazan
>complicated
Maybe if you're a brainlet. The series is literally one of the author's DnD game put into written form. If you can read Sanderson without any issues then you can read Malazan

The Shadow of the Torturer. Does it get interesting?

Hello All,

I am listening to the audiobook version of the above book. I am halfway through and the book seems to focus more on the philosophical aspects of things. There is some action, but it is not fast paced. Does it get better or does it continue the same pace. I am debating whether I should continue with it or not. Please help.

The Crippled God was so bad that I regretted Malazan in the first place. Seriously guys don't read Malazan you'll end up regretting it

>>9648289
You colossal faggot. Don't fall for it.

>>9648351
If you want mindless action read Mistborn or Stormlight Archive

>>9648351
That book was so awful I couldn't finish it. I really tried b/c I know people love it, but I thought it was really boring.

>>9648280
Speak for yourself redditfag.

>>9648359
I'll prove it to you. I just went into r/sanderson and found something extremely telling. reddit is so weird. It has a terrible UI so how did it get so popular

>>9648168
I didn't even need to criticize malazan and already the butthurt is there

>>9647914
Both

>>9646899
To know which books to avoid, everything before the 90s is pretty archaic and dated and not worth reading

>>9648357
>mindless action
>Stormlight
IF ONLY

>Ian Brandon Anderson
>Brandon Sanderson
>Brandon looks suspiciously like Chris-chan

What level of meme magic is this?

>>9648336
Sanderson explains everything in elaborate detail from the start, you get no such handholding from Malazan. You have to do a lot of the legwork to keep track of information yourself and if you're not willing to do that then you will get lost and not follow what is happening. Piecing together what's going on is part of what intrigued me about Malazan and why I was driven to keep reading it, at first, until I got to really like the characters.

>>9648328
It's not pretentious to say Malazan requires you to actively think about what you read, it's a fact. If you just blitz through it without bothering to remember names or facts then you won't get what's going on. People do get confused reading it because they just assume it's stuff like Sanderson and everything will be laid out on a platter for their understanding.

>brainlets still mad that they can't read and comprehend
Why are you still here?

>>9648719
>You have to do a lot of the legwork to keep track of information yourself and if you're not willing to do that then you will get lost and not follow what is happening. Piecing together what's going on is part of what intrigued me about Malazan and why I was driven to keep reading it, at first, until I got to really like the characters.
Maybe if you haven't read a book before

>>9635541
Time Enough is actual garbage on paper. It's all of Heinlein's most annoying tendencies packed into one book

>>9648722
>everything will be laid out on a platter for their understanding.
This is exactly what malazan does. It just does it 3 books later after it's first mentioned. No one needs to be a genius to do this. They just need to give enough of a shit

>>9642402
I just did too! Did they ever explain how the earth nerds and the trisolarians were able to understand each others' communications?

>>9648328
>Acting pretentious and elitist
I didn't. What I said is apparent in the criticism.
>Who are you to say their opinions don't count because they never read every book in a series that they don't like
I get that this is sarcasm, but in case I didn't make it clear enough for others: criticizing a plot/character development after seeing just a glimpse of it makes the opinion invalid.

>just learned that your works eventually become public domain
this is fucking disgusting, I don't even want to publish my books anymore. What do I do, wait and hope the copyright laws change before I die of old age?

>>9648862
Don't worry, your work will be long forgotten anyway.

>>9648862
How much of a fucking jew are you?
Jesus christ

>>9648949
I think the Jews are the people who try and profit off of other peoples work after their death without the permission of those who hold the rights

>>9648955
Nobody profits from something in public domain except old booksellers who sell it for like 20 cents

>>9648962
Aren't you able to make edits and adaptations of things which are in public domain?

How is the Southern Reach Trilogy? Nearly every review I see of it is negative but I've also heard some really great things about it. Is it just a difficult novel that casual readers can't get into or is it legitimately bad?

Anybody ever read the Chronicles of an Age of Darkness series by Hugh Cook? Apparently it's pretty good and China Mieville likes it.

>>9648990
Where are you getting your reviews? Last I heard it (and Van Der Meer's other stuff) was well regarded, a modern Roadside Picnic, etc.

>>9648949
I guess I should clarify, I wouldn't care if people did unauthorized reproductions of my stuff and sold it for profit, even if they made more money off of it than I did, I just don't want there to be any modification or adaptation whatsoever. Especially not with the 70 year period, I would be fine with 500+ years though.

Am I alone in liking The Final Empire but none the of the sequels?

>>9648990
Annihilation is pretty good, but the two later books in the trilogy don't add much of anything and feel like a waste, which I think drags down people's opinions of the trilogy. Don't go into it expecting any answers.

>>9648964
Yes. Thus Pride & Prejudice & Zombies.

>>9648862
What country are you in? In the U.S., you maintain your copyright for the entirety of your life, plus a certain number of years after you die. That number keeps increasing because Disney doesn't want to lose IP rights over its stuff so they keep getting legislatures to extend it. If the trend continues, then you don't have to worry about any of your stuff ever going public domain.

But it's a stupid reason not to publish in any event.

>>9648814
Don't think so.

>>9649073
the sequels turned to shit, and the next series even more due to no mistborns, i did like the addition of ferrueoeoee something shits

>>9648753
So you're saying that the ones complaining are newfags that never read?

>>9649157
Some of the things in Malazan were complicated, I never complained though since I already knew I am very low iq and I probably wouldn't understand obvious things that normal people did, but that's just me, I think the people making short posts criticizing Malazan are just baiting to get reactions though.

>>9648646
I-is this a YOI reference?

Give me something good and short, /sffg/

who here just reads the plot summaries on the wikis instead of the books themselves? you can cover a lot more ground this way, Malazan for example would take an insane amount of time to read normally

>>9648372
>reddit is so weird. It has a terrible UI so how did it get so popular

massive digg exoddus due to digg's political correctness crusade

fucking ironic, right?

>>9649317
The Devil In The Forest

>>9649317
The Red Plague

Here's an opinion that will blow everyone's fucking mind malazan is mediocre

I've decided I'd be a fucking retard to pursue any of the ambitious book series I've considered throwing together. I need a solid one-off just to prove to myself I can produce something of publishable quality. I've started writing all four of these stories, but I need to put my effort into one. Which should it be?

>Fantasy noir in a world where warring, fantastical realms have overlaid the mundane and come to make peace in a crossroad city. The protagonist is a magical dead zone, a Powder Knight still capable of wielding old world weaponry which most inhabitants are incapable of utilizing

>Episodic Dying Earth narrative following the adventures of a human-like "Scribe," whose every observation is recorded in the tome lodged in his chest. Explores the apocalyptic aftermath of humanity's ill-conceived pact with otherworldly beings

>The dark lord™ has fallen, and with him three of the four legendary heroes it took to kill him. The fourth, a wily illusionist, vanished from the public eye and left the world in relative peace. Decades later, strange phenomenon hint at the return of the dark lord™, and a lone man is sent in search of the illusionist. He discovers the wizard is a washed up, old drunk living in complete solitude, tormented by his inability to save the only friends he ever had. Forcibly conscripting the washed up wizard, the two journey to investigate the occurrences. The story serves as a loveletter to the fantasy genre, the illusionist's perspective and numerous flashbacks steeped in nostalgia.

>Wacky desert adventures with a guy who killed his teacher, an armless desert amazon, a scorpion-riding jackal man, and a one-eyed sun worshiper

>>9649537
The book where you kill yourself

>>9649549
That one's coming, friend. Don't you fret.

>>9637318
you do sound autistic though

>>9649582
Looking forward to it, champ

>>9649537
second one desu, still depressed we don't have more Vancian authors

>>9649537
I'm in the same boat anon, I just want to go through the motions at least once.

>>9649537
>an armless desert amazon
4th for sure.

>>9637478
Not that guy but GRI and Dune.

>>9649317
The emperor's soul

>>9649660
Where is the GRI APPROVED charts?
We have a seal of approval, where is the chart? Anyone ever stamped a book with the GRI seal?

>>9648862
One can't own ideas you colossal faggot.

>>9649018
I will hunt you down and give your book the Starship Troopers treatment.

>only really like fantasy and science fiction
>even then i only get interested in very few stories
feel like a brainlet to be honest. maybe reading isn't for me.

Post-apocalyptic books similar to A Canticle for Leibowitz? I.e, rediscovering old knowledge, rebuilding society in the distant future, stuff like that.

I wish book covers didn't suck so much.

>>9649878
What do you think about this? Different logo for each book of the series

>>9649892
also, the title is 4 letters and each act name is 1 word, for aesthetic purposes

>>9649892
a little plain but I think etching and cross hatching on the design in the middle would be good

at least its not an eye, a girls face, some dude or shitty art

>>9649941
oh yeah it would definitely be elaborated, I whipped this up in 5 minutes for you. everything on there is a placeholder.

>1/5 starts
>I couldn't stand the protagonist. He was such a fucking asshole!!
Literally every review of the Cugel the Clever books on Goodreads.

>>9649951
>1 star
>blah blah blah misogynistic
>blah blah blah can't write women
>blah blah blah violence against women
>I'm literally a middle-aged catlady complaining on the internet about a genre aimed at teenage boys.

>mfw encountering Gene Wolfe for the first time

>>9649721
Read some older fantasy and sci fi. Modern fantasy is literally just DnD

>>9649587
we're all autistic

Speaking of vidya, how are the Elder Scrolls books?

Are they worthy of a worthless neet's worthless time?

>>9650052
I saw Gene Wolfe at a grocery store in Illinois yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, and that he was a huge influence in I becoming an author, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything.
He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?”
I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying.
The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter.
When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

>>9649878
>fantasy novel shows the torso and lower face of a brooding, muscular man holding a weapon, he is likely covered with soot or something and wearing leather armor
>generic coat of arms or sword or helmet or something with a tinted background, like the Malazan reissue covers or the Dragon and Coin series
>assassin's creed cosplay
>it's a map
>that "rough sketch" style of fantasy art like on the Black Company collections
>urban fantasy required by law to show either a midriff if the MC is female or a shadowed face if male, possibly while they're standing under a arch or in a cemetery
>scifi series has something that doesn't relate to the story at all, eg, psychological thriller with a exploding spaceship
>a transparency of a military insignia or corporate logo on a starfield, cityscape or similar
>RUSTY STEEL PLATES mean space horror
>generic chisel jawed white man in power armor holding a gun and posing heroically on every cover, in the book the main character is never physically described and never leaves his space ship or holds a gun
>3D poser art on anything other than a self-published novel
>baen book with 3D poser art

What are the key differences between contemporary and classic science fiction?

>>9650373
please stop anon you're Hurting me

>>9650455
The good hurt?

>>9650474
like getting a boil lanced I suppose

>>9649878
I know the old chestnut of not judging a book by its cover but damn are bookstores depressing when you go into certain sections. During the 'everything is vampires forever apocalypse' the entire YA section was a battleground of black covers

>>9650486
to be fair, black is the best color and there's nothing it doesn't match

>>9650507
Black isn't a color

>>9649486
wow a stupid opinion, really blew my mind there pal.

>>9650373
>baen book with 3D poser art
>baen book with 3D poser art that has a meme in it because the author is a fan of a late 1990s webcomic

>>9650542
>mfw the Puppies nominate some sad, stupid works but even they don't stoop so low as to stack the deck with Baen books

>>9650408
A sense of a moral universe. Classic SF authors felt compelled by storytelling technique to write stories where things generally worked out for people, good people coming along better than bad people, and even if there wasn't a clear line between good and bad there were people who more or less wanted good and people who more or less wanted evil.

Contemporary SF feels compelled to demonstrate that the universe is uncaring, by consequences coming more or less at random, no matter the skill or moral power of the victims. Their camera coming to rest on a story with a happy-ish ending would be intolerable, as it would imply a moral ending, or that they considered the universe bound by moral forces; and so the plots of contemporary SF stories trend towards downer endings and oh-huh endings where nothing really changes.

Of course there are many exceptions in both eras but this is one key way to tell the difference; ideas, for example, as the centers of stories, haven't changed much.

>>9650578
A good portion of the people who started the Sad Puppies are Baen published though. Correia, Ringo, etc.

Of course most of them also started distancing themselves from it, or at least making impassioned "no you've got it all wrong we're not nazis! that's that other group which is using our name!" blog posts, after Theodore Beale showed up.

>>9649317
Diamond Dogs

>>9650601
Ringo was involved in Sad Puppies? He must have quit pretty early.

I was referring to the Rabids, as they actually did things. Sads just complained and had fun in their own little circles. Rabids pointed out that the options were to stay in the ghetto or get treated like niggers, as the Hugo crew weren't about to actually, you know, listen to their complaints.

>tfw one high-profile Tor writer going, "hey, yeah, I can see why people who do not share our politics could feel excluded by many recent award winners, they could have been written so as to support progressive ideals without directly attacking those who think differently, I'm going to look really really hard for a conservative-leaning Hugo nom to support" could have defused the whole situation
>tfw they doubled down on calling them Nazis instead

>>9650614
>"no don't call them nazis!"
>leader is a actual fascist who lives in Italy

>>9650622
if everyone who follows Vox Day is a nazi is everyone who follows John Scalzi a man in a dress?

>>9647960
>spoonfed
This is such a retarded defense. Having to learn a million different trivial details before something makes sense doesn't give the series depth, it's a fucking Dungeons and Dragons campaign written for autists who like never-ending sequences of events with no rhyme, reason or end in sight.

>>9648083
Unironically The Book of the New Sun. Even with the supplementary coda-novel which exists solely to explain it all it's still confusing to many readers.

>>9650622
>leader is a actual fascist who lives in Italy
And the author who they pushed is a mild-mannered Virginian who publicly criticized Vox Day for his racial views many times and who came out strongly against Naziism as recently as, let me check, today. But he got called a Nazi and his fans got called Nazis because they refused to shun Vox Day on command.

Meanwhile Delaney and Clarke both screwed little boys and they're revered elder statesmen. Hey, at least you ruined the lives of those... Mormon chaplains married to black people? this machine kills fascists yaaay

>>9648637
Please kill yourself slowly.

>>9650628
>mfw idiots itt can't reconstruct decades of worldbuilding from tiny offhand details
>mfw they don't want to read thousands of pages of nonsense on the hope that it will make sense after reading a few thousand more pages then rereading

>>9650408
>Contemporary
Soulles STEM autism (Chiang) or anime in prose (Sanderson).
>Classic
Pulp with occasionally interesting ideas to activate your almonds (Asimov, Heinlein) with occasional masterpieces that happen to contain space-travel (Wolfe, Lindsay).

>>9650641
I've never actually read Malazan because it sounds retarded. Is the world-building ever really relevant or is it just a generic swords & sorcery soap-opera with exceptionally elaborate window-dressing? Book of the New Sun is the only post-Tolkien work that comes to mind that really uses world-building for a coherent and well-executed purpose, by comparison every other celebrated "epic" seems senile and pointless.

>>9650651
>>Contemporary
>Pulp with occasionally interesting ideas to activate your almonds (Stephenson, Bacugalupi) with occasional masterpieces that happen to contain space-travel (Watts, Banks).
>>Classic
>Soulles STEM autism (Asimov) or anime in prose (Burroughs).

>>9650634
>But he got called a Nazi and his fans got called Nazis because they refused to shun Vox Day on command.

So if they don't agree with him them why do they still associate with him?

>Meanwhile Delaney and Clarke both screwed little boys and they're revered elder statesmen.

Well if you're bringing up that, why hasn't Beale dropped Yiannopoulos for saying it should be legal to rape children?

>>9650668
>So if they don't agree with him them why do they still associate with him?
Because not everyone is a turbo-autist who puts their personal politics above their work.

And I don't follow the man at all but I find it hard to believe that le based bleached hair faggot said that.

>>9650668
>So if they don't agree with him them why do they still associate with him?
because on Planet Earth sometimes we compromise with people we don't fully agree with?

>Well if you're bringing up that, why hasn't Beale dropped Yiannopoulos for saying it should be legal to rape children?
Why should he? Are you going to tell me that Scalzi or Kowal or Aliette de Bodard are going to see that and go, "great, now we'll apologize for praising Clarke because he retired to Sri Lanka to hang out in a boy-brothel?"

Vox Day would have been NOTHING if you people hadn't stuck to your stupid double standards. Right-wingers have to be so ideologically pure they stand alone, left-wingers can separate the art from the artist all day.

>>9650659
Asimov could be painfully dry at times but if he only ever wrote The Foundation he'd still be worth remembering. And I've never actually read Watts or Banks, give me the Bogpill on them. From the sounds of it Watts' most famous work is a kind of re-working of Lindsay's. Does that sound right?

>>9650673
It was something stupid like saying he was grateful to the man that slept with him when he was underage for making him who he is because he has no regrets or something. Kind of like how when Vox Day said Torgersen's wife wasn't Homo Sapiens in the same way he was making a point about Neanderthal admixture, but why actually analyze his statements? He's a Nazi, we already know that.

>>9650659
Asimov is hardly dry, his stuff is very easy to read. And I love his characters like Dors, Hari and Daneel

>>9650677
I mostly just slotted the contemporary ones in so I could make the point about Asimov. Watts' book Blindsight I guess you could compare to Voyage to Arcturus but it would really extremely be a stretch.

Banks is someone the kind of person I was imitating would like, but I read Consider Phlebas first and so will probably never read him again.

>>9650681
>Daneel
>character
anon that's called a plot device

>>9650685
Daneel did nothing wrong. except state that he was going to steal Fallom's brain

>>9650683
I'm the anon you replied to and I think Banks sounds horrific. What's the appeal? He sounds like STEM autism incarnate.

>>9650749
Culture is soft scifi. The books explore the ethicality of interfering on the growth of other often less advanced societies. Well, mix of that and space opera.

>>9650628
>never-ending sequences of events with no rhyme, reason or end in sight.
But that is the nature of life.
I don't recognize your criticism as relevant to the series, tho, so please explain.

>>9650843
I'd rather one story with a beginning, middle and end over an endless series of less thought out musings, which is what most of these big series tend to devolve into. Your description makes it sound like middle-brow Star Trek.

>>9650845
Life is shit and boring, that's why we created literature, where everything happens for a reason, is compelling, and most importantly, ends while we can still remember how it started and well before we ever start thinking 'what the hell was the point of this again?' Or even, god forbid, 'It's been 2000 pages, when do we even get to KNOW the point of this?'

A whole bunch of soap-opera style happenings which do nothing but make people richer, poorer, deader or moved somewhere else might be truer to 'the nature of life' (lmao faggot) but it's not interesting literature or good storytelling.

>>9650880
Excluding the world, the Culture novels are almost not connected at all. Every novel has different characters and story. You don't need to read all of the books to get closure, reading any one will do. Some of them do get a bit repetitive, and the quality does vary between the books.

>>9650880
If you didn't remember how Malazan started and what the point of the last convergence was, that's on you, not the books.
>not good storytelling
What does good storytelling look like then?