/lit/ - Literature

>characters turned black in movies, white people freak out, saying "why not make new black characters?"
>meanwhile, gay people ask, "why aren't there any gay characters?"
>straight people get pissed off and say they shouldn't want it in the first place

Yeah, I guess it does make sense that gay people, women, black people, and so on, would all want to read about nothing but straight white men, right? It's not like you'd be bothered if every single fantasy book on the shelf were about a black lesbian slaying dragons and shit.

Except, oh, wait, there's a whole group of people who get mad if a story that reflects the experiences of women or minorities gets a Hugo.

Neal pls stop this.

>>9623572
I'm black and read over 800 sff books. Almost all of them are featuring white protagonist. Don't mean shit to me. I read Chinese, indian, women, even gay sff. I look at the story/blurb and read. I don't go looking for black protagonists and books with a bunch of black characters because I don't self insert.

I read a book like I watch a movie, pay attention and when it's over I decide if I was entertained or not. The self insert autists are the spergs that is killing sff. Harry Potter was probably the only book that I self-inserted myself into (and I had no problem imagining that I was being Harry, walking around, fucking Cho, Hermione, Ginny, even those upitty Indian twins/sisters. I knew they wanted Harry's dick because of how they behaved.

These spergs are so autistic that they can't read a book with a black main character, or if the book mentions dark skin they flip out. I can understand when they try to force the gay characters in, or if they go out their way to use pronouns, but black protagonists have been around for decades. I'm sure a lot of you pol types read and enjoyed black protag books and didn't even notice it.

>>9623708
>>9623799
fucking white supremacist right wingers amirite?? xxxdxdxdxdxdx

23 days until the No God comes back to fuck everyone's shit up

>>9623805
>xxxdxdxdxdxdx
What's with the reddit fagget? All I'm saying is if I can read fantasy books with 90% caucasians, then caucasians (some) shouldn't be triggered when a book they were reading reveals the protag as black. You think milky skin princesses can survive unchanged for decades in a desert?

>>9623845
fucking white supremacist right wingers and their fragile ego amirite xxxxdxdxdxdx

>>9623845
That's not the issue. The issue is that caucasians get grief for writing all caucasians as if they're the ones who have to save the world by making the world a vibrant diverse society free of hate.

>>9623708
>It's not like you'd be bothered if every single fantasy book on the shelf were about a black lesbian slaying dragons and shit.
1. it really isn't
2. even if I were bothered my response would be to write a fantasy book about a godly straight Aryan slaying dragons and suck up all that slack money that would be lying around, not whine that some black lesbian isn't taking advantage of the straight white market.

>Except, oh, wait, there's a whole group of people who get mad if a story that reflects the experiences of women or minorities gets a Hugo.
Who cares? Who seriously cares if someone gets mad? Even if it were true why would you get mad, unless you thought rage energizes you or something? And it isn't even true.

>>9623799
>These spergs are so autistic that they can't read a book with a black main character
[who?]

>>9623879
Probably some /lit/ troll they took seriously.

>>9623708
>Except, oh, wait, there's a whole group of people who get mad if a story that reflects the experiences of women or minorities gets a Hugo.
who are even more statistically insignificant than the group of people who get mad if a story that reflects the experiences of someone who is not a woman or minority gets a Hugo.

>>9623708
>It's not like you'd be bothered if every single fantasy book on the shelf were about a black lesbian slaying dragons and shit.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=lp_10134_nr_n_7?fst=as%3Aoff&rh=n%3A283155%2Cn%3A%211000%2Cn%3A17%2Cn%3A10134%2Cn%3A10165&bbn=10134&ie=UTF8&qid=1497191609&rnid=10134
knock yourself out bb

>>9623857
>>9623805
Ikr

>>9623879
Lurk more friend.

Read Malazan.

What the fuck is "imgoat.com"?

>>9623708
>there's a whole group of people who get mad if a story that reflects the experiences of women or minorities gets a Hugo.

You don't get "mad" that objectively terrible books get a Hugo when there's actually good books written by women or minorities getting completely ignored?

>>9623988

Convince me to do so. I really don't feel like investing in such a long series but I am pretty curious about The Black Company. Do they feel dated or do they completely hold up in this decade?

>>9624007
Black Company is cited by Erikson as one of the main influences on malazan. Its really good and has the best worldbuilding out of any book ever (this is a fact) lots of great characters and action and even though the books are long there honestly isn't much filler except for maybe book 8 or 9. Compared to WOT it is way superior for example in how much it achieves with the number of words. BC is a bit dated but still good.

>>9624007
Black Company really is better appreciated if you've served in the army. You won't get the atmosphere if you've never experienced it. Still entertaining without that though.

>>9623988
lol

anybody here like Lovecraft? and i aint talking about no collaborations he did, im talking about his original works.

>>9624052
he was pretty good, his stories read very similarly though. He obviously wrote for the cash.

>>9624054
yeah, his stories were pretty bland, although i love how he wasn't a stickler for having a strict canon, some of the expanded mythos stories are pretty cool.

I just finished reading Book of the New Sun for the second time. It's so incredible that I sincerely wonder why other writers are even trying anymore.

>>9624070
>he hasn't read unsouled

>>9624070
He hasn't read malazan.

>>9624070
>genre wolfe
i bet you haven't read his melismatic poetry, nor even a single of his ebullient essays.

gene wolfe is shit

>>9623737
I'm actually looking forward to reading that. Stephenson is cool, I enjoyed Seveneves. I have no idea who that other person is.

>>9624054
>He obviously wrote for the cash.
Did a very poor job at that, seeing as he didn't have any cash.

>>9624073
Isn't that a shitty anime adaptation for YA?

>>9624113
>muh anime
>muh YA
kill yourself

>>9624076
>Series based on a D&D campaign
It's a pretentious Dragon Lance

Say one good thing about Wheel of Time.

>>9624119
sanderson

>>9624119
It's makes Malazan look even better by comparison.

>>9624119
It has two good characters, which is two more than Malazan

>>9624119
I love to hate the villains.

>>9624128
Karsa, Icarium, Quick Ben. Ganoes. Coltaine. Rake.

>>9624140
Rake is like an OC written by a middle-schooler who wanted to make a super-cool character.

>>9624140
kek

>>9624144
Fair, he has depth though.

>>9624005
Does anyone actually mind the hugos? They havent been relevant in decades. They are the grammy of sff.

What's a good point to start for Phillip K. Dick? Also should I always read the original or can I resort to German translations? It's not that my English is bad or anything, it's just that my autism makes it really hard for me to buy English books and make the first step into a billingual library.

>>9624166
Yes, they drag the entire industry down so heavily large publishing companies are moving their genre fiction imprints away from SFF.

>tfw too smart to care about representation in fiction

All that really matters is what the work is actually saying.

>>9624229
WE WUZ KANGZ

>>9624144
>who wanted to make a super-cool character.
and succeeded.
>>9624140
Silchas, Trull, Onrack, Tool, Tavore, Yedan, etc etc etc.

>whites reading black chars
>hugos
>neal Stephenson
>gene wolfe is best
>gene wolfe is shit
>Malazan
>wot
>lovecraft
>anime
>"whitey when will they learn amirite"
>pol sneaking
>ya
Did I miss anything?

>>9624261
something something gays, but thats about it

>>9624261
you missed unsouled by will wight

>>9624261
Missed Wot has better characters than Mamalazn.

>>9624270
I will try it.
Is it as anime as his other series?

>>9624293
yes

>>9624287
*tugs braids* you sure are right *smooths skirts* better characters by far *spreads thighs*

>>9624305
Yeah none of them have a +5 greatsword how can they even compete

>>9624305
>not tugging your god braids

What's a good /sffg/ series with writing similar to Cormac McCarthy?

>>9624140
Aside from Karsa, those are all generic begrudging heroic characters. Felisin is an example of a good character in Malazan. All her motivations and actions make sense and isn't a "MUH HONOR" fag

>>9624076
If he had, he would've given up 2-3 books in because of shit story and boring characters

>>9624179
>What's a good point to start for Phillip K. Dick?
Probably Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep or The Collected Stories of Philip K. Dick if you are more interested in short stories.

>>9624567
Burroughs "cities of the red night"

>>9624293
Its more chingchong cultivation than anime

But still pretty anime

>decide to read jumper
>muh sexism
>muh racism
>his mom gets allahu akbared
>#notallmuslims
the movie is shit but the book is even worse

I'm looking for stories that talk about the ambiguities of artificial intelligence. I've got Androids, and I've read The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Hyperion, and a couple other things.

To give an idea of what I'm looking for: I'm more interested in stuff like the Dixie Flatline in Neuromancer than the robot ethics stuff in I, Robot. Like, more interested in "what even IS consciousness? is this thing 'conscious' or not?"

Totally down for schlock, or only being minor parts of a wider story, as long as the concept is neat.

Anyone happen to have any recommendations? Thanks a bunch.

I really don't understand why Sanderson's magic systems get so much praise.

Hey /lit/

I'm looking for a fantasy novel with a girl protag?

Any nice ones?

>>9624073
fuck off

>>9625066
my nigga sabriel

>>9624855

dont read fiction if you want to learn about AI, fiction authors are woefully inaccurate and frankly harmful in their portrayal of AI. Man is not building independent spirited metal men, AI is just a way to run computers more efficiently. An AI will only "go rogue" and kill people if its programmed to do so.

Library at Mount Char is fun af lads.

>>9625124
>what is heuristics
>what is AI learning AI to make better AI
>implying anyone will even be able to imagine what the fuck is behind the neural networks running most automata starting 2030~.

>>9624128
>>9624144
>>9624598
What is this tryhard only-characters-matter faggotry?!? Malazan is epic as fuck and everything about the world Erikson has created is amazing, not to mention that it is relatively unique in the grand scheme of things, not many similar fantasy books/series. Why do some people require every book to be some kind of touching and insightful character study with flawed and empathetically deep characters featuring endless moral dilemmas and inner struggles?

I've always found world building, good story elements and interesting concepts to be equally interesting as good characters. More often than not im completely content with low-effort psychopaths and generic cardboard-cut stereotypes if aforementioned areas of the books are in check. Only thing worse than character-fags are self-insert-fags who only read specific genre fiction pieces that fit their formula.

>>9624144
Rake IS cool though. You just sound like a faggot who hates cool things.

>>9624598
>those are all generic begrudging heroic characters
What the fuck, no they aren't.

>>9624855
Neal Asher Agent Cormac series. Start with Shadow of teh scorpian.
1.Prador Moon
2.Shadow of the Scorpion
3.Gridlinked
4.The Line of Polity
5.Brass Man
6.Polity Agent
7.Line War
8.The Technician
9.The Skinner

>Tfw you realize Duncan was the main character in Dune all along and the Atreidias and Harkonen conflict was just a backdrop

new to /lit/, can't help but notice sff threads are english-literature exclusively. You guys forbid translations or what?

>>9625844
Feel free to bring up whatever books you want, but this community is pretty small and dominated by English speakers, so good luck finding anyone that speaks your language.

>>9625844
>Russian lit - muh vrmmo
>Chinese lit- mug 10000 year cultivation pill
>euro sffg -praise allah PBUH

>>9625941
I'm pretty sure I mentioned translations.

>>9626063
>euro sffg -praise allah PBUH

Specifics?

>>9626151
I'm pretty sure we mention Lem, the Strugatskies, and the Witcher guy pretty regularly.

>>9623799
I'm going to be trying to sell my novel after polishing it, and this trend has concerned me a little bit. technically every single character in the book is a descendant from chinese colonists, but I make no mention of race, little of hue, and there are no significant female characters. this kind of thing isn't unpublishable right now, is it? might just be being paranoid because I spend too much time around here.

I'm a little bitch and didn't want to start a thread for this. I desperately need the passage from a 40k book describing chaos overtaking their ship. It was beautiful, and I can't find it and never copied it because I'm a little bitch. Help me please, /lit/.

>>9626194
Orson Scott Card published a novel where the majority of characters were black Brazilians, won a Hugo and Nebula for it, and is now absolute persona non grata with little children throwing rocks at him because he believes the same thing about gay marriage as Brandon Sanderson. It doesn't matter what you write, it matters who you suck up to.

>>9626195
probably have better luck in /tg/ 40k generals.

>>9626201
And what does Sanderson believes about gay marriage?

I know he's a mormon autist, but he doesn't seem like a huge bigot from his books.

>>9626222
He believes that marriage should just be straight because that's what his church teaches, he made a blog post pretty much apologizing for his beliefs and promising to never bring them up again so his handlers are fine.

OSC doesn't seem like a huge bigot from his books. He actually has more and better female characters than Sanderson. He just didn't shut up when they told him to shut up, so now he's practically forgotten and Sanderson gets to not only get published but be the token anti-gay marriage guy they bring up when challenged about being political absolutists.

(they = pic related)

>>9626243
Hey, where is Patrick Rothfuss in this? He's one of the up and coming authors in fantasy! Not only has he produced too critically acclaimed novels, but he's also produced numerous deep criticism about the state of modern fiction. How could such an important figure be left out?!

>>9626316
He didn't get Doors of Stone out in time so they baked him into the cake.

>tfw two of the modern Big Three fantasy authors haven't published anything in ten years and the other one is Sanderson

>>9626243
My god, the amount of autism in that room.

>>9626243
>>9626366
Why do they look so sad? Shouldn't fantasy/scifi authors be optimistic, whimsical sages with a twinkle in their eye?

>>9626383
Only the ones who can take pride on their work would look like that. Everyone in that room knows deep down that they're surrounded by hacks and in the company that they deserve.

Does anybody actually recognize a single face in this image?

>>9626327
>Doors of Stone
What does a publisher do when an author just stops working? What does he do? What could their relationship be like at this point? Will anybody even buy the damn thing?

>>9624035
Reminds me of how somebody once criticized David Drake's stories for being "unrealistic" in their depictions of soldiers and combat. (Drake served in Vietnam and was a intelligence officer in a armored cavalry unit.)

>>9626404
Publisher is fucked basically. In many cases they give authors HUGE advances for their books because they are counting on them selling a lot, but that can bite them in the ass when the author decides they don't have to work anymore.

>>9626553
Couldn't the publisher just sue them if it gets that bad?

>>9626559
That's a last resort, after your working relationship has totally broken down and it's clear the author has no intention of ever working with you again. Because once you go that far it's over. They're done. You will never again get a golden egg from that goose. So they are being patient hoping eventually he'll shit out another golden egg for them. The real downside is it has probably made publishers a lot more leery of jumping on up and coming authors. They are going to be less trusting and less whole-hog about throwing money at anyone promising.

>>9626559
That's like getting a divorce, you don't do that unless you want to cut them loose. It's bad for both author and publisher to have to resort to that.

>>9625280
Piero Scaruffi told me intelligent machines are a meme.

>>9626243
what kind of party is this? where the bitches at?

http://ansible.uk/sfx/top20fsf.html

/\ Worth checking out.

Was trying to into M John Harrisson, read Light and thought it was shit. Was I wrong? Is any of his earlier stuff worth the read?

>>9626639
With Wolff in the next room

>>9625360
>Why do some people require every book to be some kind of touching and insightful character study with flawed and empathetically deep characters featuring endless moral dilemmas and inner struggles
Which >>9625360
>Why do some people require every book to be some kind of touching and insightful character study with flawed and empathetically deep characters featuring endless moral dilemmas and inner struggles?
Which is funny because Malazan tries really hard to do that

>>9626659
I also disliked Light, tried some of his Viriconium stuff and it isn't quite as bad (not that it's good or anything)

Hey guys, what do you lot think of david eddings? I was recently asked by my 10 year old nephew about what type of books i read when i was his age, and i realised i had particularly fond memories of eddings' books even though i can't really remember much about them. Are they worth a re-read?

>>9624825
Does the book suck aside from happening to lean politically in a way you don't agree with? Or are you just butthurt that real issues are included in a book that takes place in what is essentially the real world?

>Main character is a brown-skinned post-Nortwegian woman who fucks a SEAsian whose home no longer exists
Vernor Vinge confirmed for libertarian feminist

>>9626726
Libertarian?

>>9626733
Yes

>>9626655
This actually isn't garbage at all. Colour me surprised. A couple might have been a bit meme-tastic and a couple of older masterpieces mightn't have quite made it but over all that's a very good selection. All 20 should be considered essential /sffg/-core. And of course huge props for actually putting Book of the New Sun first and Lord of the Rings fourth.

Yo what happened to bookzz? Apparently they sent a newsletter saying they were closing. Can someone copypaste it?

>>9626832
They have a new website. Google about it.

>>9626659
Harrison just ain't worth it IMO. I think he was overhyped by New Wavers who wanted someone more thoughtful than Moorcock. Then Wolfe came and ate their lunch.

>>9626733
He's always been one as far as I can recalll.

What are some good books that involve pirates?
Not a historical account of piracy of course, something within the realm of fantasy.

>>9627132
Pirate Freedom

>>9627132
Bodacious Space Pirates.

>>9627132
Ship Breaker.

>>9627136
huh... didn't know Gene Wolfe had written anything about pirates. Cool, thanks for the suggestion m8

>>9627168
kek
I should have known from the title but no, this is not quite what I was looking for.

>>9627229
The premise sounds interesting, I'll check this one out too.

>>9627279
It's absolute, complete shit. Read at your own caution.

can somebody recommend me something low fantasy where a group of characters explore a dungeon of some description

>>9627405
Google “Magi: The Labyrinth of Magic”
Play tomb raider games

>>9627418
>anime

>>9623674
I just finished everything about the Abhorsen series and I really liked it. Can you guys please recommend me something similar?

>>9626676
>Which is funny because Malazan tries really hard to do that
Then can you enlighten me, which traits turn a character from pretentious or generic try-hard character to a 'good' and interesting character? And i remind you, we are talking about sff genre fiction here. Examples appreciated.

>>9624261
>dinosaurs

>>9626409
I'm not saying you're wrong but the authority argument doesn't weigh much, senpai.

I just started reading Urth of the New Sun and I'm confused. Severian doesn't sound quite like Severian and Wolfe doesn't seem to be writing like Wolfe. This feels 110% like an afterthought. All of the callbacks to Book of the New Sun feel hamfisted, like the entire purpose of this book is to bludgeon the nuances of the last into the brains of the people who didn't get it when they were originally released. Every line feels like an explanation, which is especially jarring when almost nothing was explicitly explained in Book of the New Sun.

>>9627758
That's what Urth of the New Sun is. I will say it does get a little better (i.e. it stops reading like a generic Adventure on a Space Ship) once you get past the first third or so.

>>9627762
I did see from the chapter names that they seem to leave the ship and I was hoping that the tone would change with it. I think that the amount of radically new shit going on is demanding lots of explanation-time. Back on Urth I can imagine things getting back to normal-ish.

Are Long and Short Sun like this too? I heard that the prose takes on a different style but I couldn't really imagine New Sun being anything but Book of the New Sun style before this, now I'm reeling. This has completely thrown my mind for a loop. I was less shocked by Peace.

>>9624305
I think the fact that I hated this little bitch for her personality is proof enough that Jordan's characters worked as far as I'm concerned.

>>9627765
Don't chase the New Sun dragon, you'll never reach that high again. Long Sun is more Urth-tier, I don't think Short Sun is as good but there are some who disagree. Gotta read Long Sun before Short Sun though.

Quality is definitely
New Sun > Short Sun >>>>> Long Sun > Urth with some disagreement on the two poles but none about the big gap.

>>9627765
Also I will say that the tone of Urth deliberately strips Severian (and the New Sun narrative) of its mystique. Hence him just being a guy having an adventure on a boat in space. That's fine as far as it goes, but it's a letdown after BotNS.

>>9627776
I usually hear some good on Short Sun even from people who aren't enthusiastic about the series beyond the original story. For better or worse I think that I'm in too deep now to stop. I've gone and exposed myself to sub-perfection Solar Cycle and I can't undo that. Might as well sit through it and hear everything Wolfe had to say.

>>9627784
This feels exactly right. I'm reading his second meeting with the hierodules right now and the tone is just completely flat. Conversations Severian had with regular soldiers and sailors in BotNS were more interesting than this. They've gone from angels to loredumping mannequins, they just feel so flat, while their last appearance was a highlight of Wolfe's entire bibliography.

>>9627792
I need to make one of those charts like we have for Dune sequels for the Solar Cycle. But yes, Short Sun is a good note to end on.

>>9625280
>i dont know how something works
>that means it wants to destroy humanity
yes

>>9624287
Rand and Mat are better than any Malazan character

>>9625066
Mistborn, you can read the first one and consider it a standalone or if you really like it finish the whole trilogy.

>>9625066
>I'm looking for a fantasy novel with a girl protag?
There are plenty just stop being lazy and search for them
>Any nice ones
no

>>9625066
kushiels dart

>>9627132
The Scar

>>9625280
>durr nobody will know whats behind these things that humans have to build, program and maintain
Retard confirmed

>he actually thinks digital computing can give rise to proper AI without huge logistics issues anyways
Lmao

>>9625066
Traitor Baru Cormorant.

>>9627908
Objectively and both subjectively wrong.

Kruppe is the best toon in all of fantasy

>>9625066
God damn it you fucking pedo just fuck off
We get that you like little girls but just fuck off

>>9624978

because its rules are clear and are integrated in a coherent world building. That makes it better than all the shit-tier fantasy where the author throws around magic without rhyme and reason and ends up with a shitty non-functional world. Like Harry Potter.

>>9628094
Anon, this is an 18+ board

>>9624119
The second book was alright.

Any of you folks read the dresden files, man-kzin wars, or harry turtledoves darkness series? What do you guys think about them? I've read these all over different periods in my life and am just sort of curious what you fellows think of them.

>>9625066
The Blue Sword

>>9624119
I liked the book where everyone was following/trying to find Rand, that was pretty cool.

>>9628148
?

>>9627132
Robin Hobb's Liveship Trilogy

>>9627507
Cabal the necromancer

>>9628278
I think Jim Butcher has joined the Hallowed Halls with big names like GURM, Rothfuss, Scott Lynch, etc. Who don't release books for years.

>>9628476
>Just looked up lynch
>Plans to write seven novels of a series, then do a sequel series of another seven
>only 3 books
Jesus Christ.

What should I read next, Ian M. Banks or Gene Wolfe?

Also, where do I start with both these guys?

>>9628536
He'll kill himself before completing the first seven, tops

>>9628536
In his defense he did have a bunch of life shit going on, iirc he got divorced, lost his house and then got married again last year.

On the other hand the woman he married, Elizabeth Bear, has written like 15 books in the same time. And 5 of them were published between Republic of Thieves and today.

>>9628278
Jim's reddit cats series killed Dresden Files. Peace talk was supposed to be out years ago.
Remember when Jim dropped books every December?

>>9628549
W O L F E
O
L
F
E

What are some sci-fi books with cute boy protagonists? I need to soothe my soul after reading several shitty extreme horror novels.

>>9628661
Book of the New Sun or Fifth Head of Cerberus?

>>9628668

I too would be interested in books - either SciFi or fantasy, but preferably fantasy - featuring cute boys.

I can't think of any SciFi but if you're interested in fantasy I highly recommend 'Uncle Stephen' by Forrest Reid.

>>9628977

>>9628679
why not both my nigga? fifth head isn't that long anyways

>>9628987

I read it and found it too short and simplistic to derive much enjoyment from it. The artwork on the cover was better than the book itself.

>>9629038
It is a children's book (you read the entire trilogy?). Yes, the cover art is very nice.

>>9629064

No, I just read the first book. I wasn't particularly enjoying it but I read until the end seeing as it only took about two and a half hours to finish. There was hardly any characterization, the dialogue was flat, there were no discernible themes and the entire narrative consisted of exposition in dull utilitarian prose. It read more like a summary than a book in of itself.

Why do you niggas like these dumb off-brand ass book covers? Shit looks like it was sitting in a 1950s bargain bin.

>>9629156
I haven't read it in years. It tapped my insatiable need for dragons at that age.

>>9628990
>why not both
Because I like to alternate different authors, I'll read a book by someone and not come back to them for months, or even years sometimes. The better the first impression a writer makes the more likely I am to come back.

>>9628990
Nevermind just realized Book of the New Sun is actually 4 books, 5eth Head it is.

Gonna read the sword of truth series.

>>9628278
Only read Jim's garbage novels because they came out fast but now he's GRRM tier so no thanks.

>>9629535
do not do that to yourself, nigga. No one deserves that kind of torture.

>>9627427
maybe try a different website.

What is the dark souls of fantasy lit? Book of the New Sun maybe?

>>9629650
Sanderson. His novels are video game/anime in written form

What has Rothfuss been up to these days?

>>9629695
eating burgers with GRRM

>>9629650
Dark Souls: The Novel

What are some good fantasy books with girl protags?

>>9629650
Literally Elantris, meme Sanderson

>>9630017
There are plenty of good fantasy books with a female protag

Like
>...

Excitement.

>>9630023


>Gets bogged down in /tg/ 'move this capeshit to /co/!'

> Gets bogged down in /co/ It's a /lit/ being capeshit is not the same as being /co/!

>Gets bogged down in /lit/ 'It's a /co/ invasion! REEEE!!!!'

/sffg/?

Where the hell is pic related supposed to be posted!?

>>9630121
What did he mean by this?

What a frustrating book.

>interesting world of industrialized magic
>protagonist spends entirety of it obsessing over autistic girl who wants him to fuck off

Would it be backwards of me to have scifi characters communicate via text chat?

People have been doing the video chat thing in science fiction since at least the original Star Trek, but now anyone can do it on a modern phone.

Is it just a question of visual media preferring visual communication, and text media preferring text comminication?

It does have a bearing on the plot, because text chat would mean the characters can conceal things, misunderstand each other, break off abruptly, etc. I'm thinking of the Homestuck chatlogs.

Help me.

What do I read after Wolfe? I read LotR and all the Wolfe I could get my fingers on. Now it seems like the world is so empty of quality books to read...
Any sffg on the same level? Please

>>9630263
Forgot to mention, I also read Dune. Among many others

>>9630263
Hyperion Cantos

>>9628977
Sadpanda
male:tomgirl / male:cute

>>9630238

>>9628661
Why does this image appear to cut off halfway through?

>>9628679
Fifth Head is shorter and not as dense, start there if you haven't already started another.

>>9629650
Book of the New Sun is definitely what they're going for, at least aesthetics and tone-wise. Book of the New Sun inspired Vampire Hunter D and Vampire Hunter D inspired From Software.

why don't you faggots just rename this gene wolfe general and be done with it? fuck.

>>9629695
>>9629709
What do you think writers do during massive gaps between releases? Surely they can't be writing much of the time. I'd understand if Thomas Pynchon spent 6 straight years putting a respectable amount of work into a book before releasing it but GRRM probably isn't and Rothfuss definitely doesn't and never will.

>>9630263
Jack Vance consistently wrote prose of Book of the New Sun quality if not better. The narrative depth isn't the same but the imagination and skill with which it's all put together are very impressive. And of course R.A. Lafferty is Gene Wolfe's Gene Wolfe. His short fiction is kind of like a collection of tall-tales told by a wandering hobo who's secretly 1000 years old and has a 4 digit IQ.

>>9630431
I proposed that recently but people seemed pretty divided on it. Would be much nicer.

>>9630431
Because occasionally we also talk about Sanderson.

Ignoring Sanderson's actual fiction for the moment, what do you think of his "first law of magic"?

>An author's ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the reader understands said magic.
This doesn't mean that magic should always be explained, but just that a character suddenly gaining some new power or using magic in a way that there was no indication it could be used to solve a major problem is not satisfying to the reader. The more mysterious the magic is, the less it should be of a tool a protagonist can reliably use to get out of trouble.

I actually prefer unexplained magic, but I agree completely that it shouldn't be used to just solve problems, especially not ones you want the reader to care about.

>>9624978
The magic has rules. In the Dumbledore vs Voldemort fight: they could have done literally anything and you'd have believed it because the magic is just unlimited asspulls.

>>9628111
>>9630494
What do you think of fantasy where the magic isn't explained, but it's also rare and powerful and heroes can't just use it to solve all their problems?

>>9630485
>>9630494
What about Diane Duane's magic system? From "Young Wizard" series?

(Or the one in the Circle of Magic series?)

>>9624978
He creates complex but logically consistent systems and then makes those systems integral to the setting, rather than just being tacked onto an earth-like setting where they are completely superfluous. So his settings always seems like society and life in general has formed around the existence of magic. It makes the setting more interesting because he can speculate more about "well if people always had access to this kind of power how would it change the way they do X?"

He's pretty good about that kind of stuff, and it's one of the charms of his books.

I need some more like this, please. Character-driven fantasy with magic and action and adventure and anxiety and struggling with personal flaws and young adults not sure what to do with their lives and a group of friends who spend much of the story sticking together just because they genuinely care about and are comforted by each other, with a good mix of sadness and happiness.

This is easily my favorite fantasy of the last decade, and I have yet to read anything else like it.

>>9630503
I don't really care if magic is explained in detail I just want it to be logically consistent with itself. if in book 1 a spell can't be cast because magic doesn't work in a particular location and then 3 books later people can cast magic in that location I get annoyed. Even if he tries to explain it after the fact I still get annoyed because it's obvious he wrote himself into a corner and so retconned an earlier part of the book for his own convenience. If he can't even be bothered to be consistent to his own setting why should I waste my time trying to follow shit going on it?

>>9630527
The Bright Sword when?

>>9630534
Never ever because Gooseman has dropped off the base of the Earth.

>>9630534
I don't know, anon. Hopefully soon. Supposedly it's longer than any one of the three Magicians books.

Anyway, anything similar?

>>9630527
I like it because of the symbolism and ambiguous themes in each book. Certain things are implied rather than outright stated and it gives the sense the main characters are constantly being manipulated by forces beyond them. You kind of have to make total sense of the plot with theories and allusions because certain connections between things aren't outright stated but implied.

>>9630629
You mean like how Jane Chatwin is kind of a piece of shit human being?

But yeah, I liked that as well. I also identified with Quentin. Not that I whine quite as much as he did in parts of The Magicians, but in that I understand that kind of source-less misery, anxiety, and insecurity that he seems to have, and it was nice seeing him get through it.

I can't think of any other sci-fi or fantasy that does quite such a good job showing someone overcome those kinds of things in a pretty realistic way (despite all the magic).

>>9630263
Delany

>>9630637
>You mean like how Jane Chatwin is kind of a piece of shit human being?
I think her actions were justifiable. She says straight out that all the other times she had tried to change things it had gone even worse. Also,
>Quentin Coldwater
>Cold water= Ice
>Book starts in Winter in Manhattan before he gets to Brakebrills in summer
>Narnia started in summer in the real world before the kids entered into Narnia in the middle of winter
Poetry

>>9630263
Wolfe is a Jack Vance fanboy

>>9630653
I meant how she had fucking magic powers (and magic DOES work in the real world) and let a certain kid get molested. Which in the books we only find out after he's dead when she's like "oh lol btw don't be too mad, he was bitter because he couldn't stay here and instead he got groped by a creepy old man; enjoy probably never seeing your friends again, bye!!1"

Oh, also there's the obvious one with Alice being in the mirror and sharing her name with the main character from Through the Looking Glass.

And the character having the name Penny-- a coin-- when coins have such strong symbolic meaning in the last story.

Penny isn't my favorite character, but his story, how he and Quentin fall apart, and at the end, how he ends up coming around and wanting to save Fillory too, and the two of them having this thing in common after everything was fucking perfect. And the way Quentin's development as a person between the first two books was shown when Quentin was pissed but then he had that thought, "Probably in heaven you had hands," and that real sympathy for someone he'd basically hated for years.

Also, "you were on a break" and how fucking infuriated Quentin got was 10/10 hilarious.

>>9630682
>I meant how she had fucking magic powers (and magic DOES work in the real world) and let a certain kid get molested. Which in the books we only find out after he's dead when she's like "oh lol btw don't be too mad, he was bitter because he couldn't stay here and instead he got groped by a creepy old man; enjoy probably never seeing your friends again, bye!!1"
I'm sure she tried. But time was unwilling to change for her. If it weren't molestations something else would have happened to him. That's how I interpreted it at least.

One character that kind of throws me off is Plum. Her internal struggle never seems to fully connect with the narrative. I suppose her choice of "embracing Fillory" is supposed to represent the struggle people go through to reconcile childhood into their lives, but I don't know. It just seems kind of out of place.

Also I was kinda steamed at how it implied she was much more smarter than Quentin

>>9630722
She meaning Alice or she meaning Jane? Because Alice is smarter than Quentin. Jane just has more experience and time in Fillory.

>>9628977
Will do, anon.
Thank you for the rec.

>>9630728
Plum. I just didn't like how this character that was introduced in the last third of the story is already seen as smarter than the character we've been following for three books.

>>9630733
Ah. Well, I guess it depends what you mean by "smarter," but I do get why it might bother you.

Check this out:

>there are four Fillory books
>the name Quentin literally means "the fifth."

>>9630741
I didn't catch that. I feel like I already need to reread them now fuck.

>>9630768
I'll probably reread it soon, too.
>that fucking ending.
>"Let's fly."

Also, here. Have the theme song to the whole series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7leQB_Oe_k

>>9630263
Poul Anderson. Broken Sword.

>>9630511
>Diane Duane
>literally lifted a plot from Madeleine L'Engle

is the pronoun shit the worst of it? I dunno why I'm so bothered by it when Ancillary Justice was fine

>>9630511
>a fucking name fag

>>9630637
>I also identified with Quentin.
You self insert autists are the worst, wnd you're killing fantasy.

>>9630810
The only reason the pronoun shit is probably there is so that a transexual can get called 'it' and a woman can get raped without the SJWs crying about it.

>>9630947
The "woman" was actually a man?

>>9630928
I can't even imagine what kind of dullard needs a mirror to his own life experiences in order to enjoy fiction, let alone fantasy. Isn't the whole point of reading fantasy to see shit outside your possible experiences? Is that not the definition of fantasy? Jesus.

>>9623708
Lmao, I literally cannot wait for the Muslims to start throwing you people off of buildings in the West, it'll be their one contribution to civilization.

>>9630970
I reread TLtL and couldn't find any evidence that Ibis was anything other than female.

“You! You tortured seventeen people to death! You videoed yourself vivisecting Mercer Mardi! You crucified your foster ba’pa! You dismembered a thirteen-year-old child and left them a limbless torso to freeze to death in the Arctic! Ibis Mardi was in love with you, and you beat them until they begged for death, then raped them, and cooked and ate their arms and legs while they were still alive! Are you smiling?”


Would you have me tell you what a human heart tastes like? Or which was the most satisfying stage at which to rape Ibis Mardi, when she was beaten, limbless, half-cooked, or already dead?

Man Palmer's imagination is pretty fucked up. GRI everywhere.

>>9630994
So sjws just downloads ebooks and looks for "she" and see how many times it showed up and what happened to them?

>Deep Navigation
>one story is a revise-and-resubmit for a ficticious paper
The stories overall were mostly interesting.

>Zima Blue and Other Stories
Liking this so far.

>>9631014
>downloading
What did he mean by this?

>snatch count: 5662 books
>tfw downloading the entire internet

>>9623708

>It's not like you'd be bothered if every single fantasy book on the shelf were about a black lesbian slaying dragons and shit.

If they were well written I wouldn't be bothered. The characters' race, gender, etc is irrelevant to the story. These are just attributes, they don't mean much per se. Like in Starship Troopers it's mentioned that the main character is some kind of mexican, but it plays no role in the story whatsoever.

It's a complete non-issue.

>>9623674
The thumbnail looks awesome because man, a cosmic turtle with the planet on its shell? Awesome. Then I enlarged the image and what the fuck are those elephants doing there. They just chillin' there for all eternity or what?

>>9631078
>elephants
You just ruined my perspective of OP's image.

>>9631072
I'm such a speedereader that I don't even notice.

>>9631083
>tfw you understand a whole book by reading the title and can't savor it

>>9631088
>tfw you can touch a book and absorb it by osmosis

>tfw you will never ever nuke the memory of a book so you can experience it again for the first time

>>9631079
But come on, what if one takes a shit. What do they eat. I can believe the turtle can survive on cosmic energy alone, and I can easily picture it swimming in space, but those elephants...

>>9630810
There are a couple rants about assuming shit because of gender that come after the author has mislead you. Over all though its not too bad and the series is definitely worth reading.

All right stupid question. Are there any fantasy books with dragon sex? I recently read the dragon temple saga, which was just all around disappointing, and it made me kind of curious on the subject.

ESL here, just started reading neuromancer, can anyone explain to me what a sprawl voice and a sprawl joke means?

>>9630319

I'm not interested in pornographic material of any kind, it isn't that kind of itch that I need to scratch.

>>9631215
Ender's Game.

Can I post b ok links in here? I have a question...

>>9631127
Any book that isn't better when you re-read it isn't worth the time.

>>9631231

I've been considering reading that ever since seeing the film, but knowing the world and plot has put me off. Is it particularly well-written? Does the story continue past the events of the film? I've heard that the author exhibits an interesting partiality for boys in this novel

>>9631254
I thought it was a pretty terrible book over than the political part.

>>9631254
>niggas ITT keep acting like Ender's Game is meant to be gay when OSC also wrote Songmaster
but no it was a pretty good book, it really gets into how Ender gets force-grown into a brilliant general, how he's taking in everything and working out how to win every time, how the adults hate themselves but do it for humanity, and it's unbelievably hype when he finally gets Dragon Army. So much more attention to the battle room, as that's where he really becomes that great general, and the movie botched Command School completely, made everything happen at the same time, ruined the impact of the twist and the secondary twist at the same time. The book's actually good SF as well as a good character study.

It does have that sideplot where Peter and Valentine take over the world with their blogs but it's relatively inoffensive.

>>9631254
I really enjoyed it. It's only 300ish pages so why not?

There's only a couple instances of naked soaped-up young boys wrestling so you may be disappointed.

Just read the eaters chapter in consider phlebas... so this is what happens when you put a random Marquis de Sade story in the middle of an SF novel.

>>9631127
Sometimes I wish I could do that when I finish reading a huge series then remember that feeling of climbing a huge insurmountable cliff I had while initially digging into it and I get over it.

>>9631324
this was so fucked up

>>9631194
"The Sprawl" is the colloquial term for the megacity in the northeastern US where much of Neuromancer takes place. The term refers to "urban sprawl", the rapid and uncontrolled growth of cities. Replace "sprawl" with "street" and you'll get about the right idea of the meaning of those terms.

The way the text in OP is formatted in the catalog while on mobile looks like a little man and I just want to say that's awesome.

>>9630346
?

>>9631418
>made me look
it doesn't.

>>9628102
So much projection. Do you need a breather?

Any one know of dark stuff similar to Yoko Taro's games like Nier or Drakengard?

>>9631516
Oh I didn't notice it didn't say little girl, my bad

>>9631324
Oh god I remember that. That was still one of the most disturbing things I've ever read. Such a great book.

Can someone recommend a reading order for the Iain M. Banks books?

>>9631550
Do you mean for the culture novels?

>>9631579
Yes.

>>9631591
Consider Phlebas
The Player of Games
Use of Weapons
The State of the Art
Excession
Inversions
Look to Windward
Matter
Surface Detail
The Hydrogen Sonata

>>9631601

Thanks.

>>9631521
A lot of popular Japanese stuff feels very Gene Wolfe-like because Book of the New Sun was a big influence on Vampire Hunter D and Vampire Hunter D was a big deal in Japanese fantasy/science-fiction.

If you found the science-fiction premise behind Nier interesting you might really like Book of the New Sun. Tales of the Dying Earth also comes to mind. Both are weird fantasy/sci-fi settings full of odd people and unwholesome happenings.

>>9630810
Pronoun shit was pretty funny at times, t. M. Canner
Not really revolutionary science fiction, but a good book

>>9630928
I didn't say I had to identify with a character in order to enjoy a story. But it can be enjoyable when it happens.

>>9631650
Mycroft prequel when?

>>9631601
>>9631605
tbf I started with The Player of Games and feel like I wouldn't have been interested in the rest if I'd started with Consider Phlebas. TPoG is a good introduction to the Culture and Banks' style. Consider Phlebas is chronologically primary but it doesn't matter that much if you read the series in order.

Characters are likeable but the plot meanders at the expense of actually interesting situations and it's clear that the author has no idea how to actually write a mass murderer. Prose has clearly been dumbed down after all the retards couldn't understand it and to the book's loss.
3/5

>>9631735
*
Essentially this looks set to be Ancillary Justice 2 but with better prose unless book 3 can resuscitate the story line.

>>9630503
Sure, it works.
Sanderson explains it himself. If you want your magic to be this mysterious yet powerful thing no one can explain, that's not an issue, but you can't have characters going around pulling shit out of their asses and solving everything with deus ex machina. Tolkien is a good example of this done right. Sword of truth is a good example of this done bad.

>>9631722
I do know what you mean, but you could also argue that reading through Consider Phlebas and then TPoG in order makes you appreciate TPoG even more.

>>9629650
The Nonman parts in the last Bakker book felt very Dark Souls to me

I understand why people get mad at "Oh, I didn't like this book because I didn't identify with the characters." This is different from not giving a shit about the characters, since presumably most people can care about something that doesn't remind them of themselves.

I'm not entirely sure why "I identified with one of the characters strongly" is automatically interpreted as "if I hadn't, I would have hated it," though.

>>9631858
Because that is what yout autistic ilk does. They come in here, spew shit about a book, 30+ posts arguing with them later it's revealed that they couldn't identify with anyone, or the one they identified with died earlier on.
You spew vitriol on good books because you couldn't find anyone like you. Real bugger faggots are the biggest offenders of this.

>>9631601
that's the publishing order, which is fine, but I'd recommend reading The State of the Art first because the 2/3 Culture related short stories in it put you better on the level of what to expect of The Culture than Consider Phlebas, which throws you into the deep end right away.

>>9631892
>You
I've never even said anything bad about any book on here. My favorite fantasy series is Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. There are basically no characters in that who are all that much like me. I also mentioned earlier that I enjoyed The Magicians in part because of how much I identified with Quentin, but that wasn't the only reason.

It just seems pretty obvious that it's possible to identify with a character in a work, and enjoy that, without getting assblasted every time that doesn't happen.

What are you cunts reading?
I'm swallowing this down whole. It's like a cyberpunk novel. The tech is really good and something we might be able to achieve.

>>9632442
awaiting Seven Surrender's arrival in the post from across the pond

>>9631411
Very. Reminded me a bit of the movie "Audition" in terms of how gross it was. But I also felt extremely satisfied when he finally got his revenge at the end.

What a shit thread with shit taste.

>>9632803
It's pretty bad, yeah. Feel free to share your superior taste though. Can't be any worse.

>>9630485
I think it makes perfect sense. If magic is used to resolve something with no prior explanation, then it's just an asspull.

What fantasy book should I marathon the first 50 pages?
I'm bored and need some new shit to read before all the sequels come out this summer

>>9633240
Face in the Frost, you'll be almost done.

>>9632803
thats what happens when fantasy posters are in abundance

>>9633414
Sounds legit. I read more fantasy than SF and I'm trash.

>>9633417
i mean i also read more fantasy than scifi and im almost aggressively trash

>>9627725
Any traits are consistent with the world they are in. I don't know what these pretentious characters you are afraid of. Is that just a synonym for "complex"? For example, band of Brothers is a war story that features reluctant heroic characters. In it, people get scared, brave, shaken, etc all in a believing manner to their "world". Malazan is a war story where all the main characters are overwhelmingly heroic and brave, and tough right through war with barely a stutter. This is despite the fact that many"main" characters suffer loss that would ordinarily cripple people. Malazan tries really hard to simultaneously dive into the later, but always resolves it with some bullshit bravery or honor. That's why Felisin feels like a good character, because she's consistent with her world. There's nothing wrong with having heroes. You just don't need every other main character to be the same kind of hero

I need a good fantasy series with a girl protagonist

>>9633948
Mistborn, His Dark Materials, The Phèdre Trilogy, The Memoirs of Lady Trent, The Song of the Shattered Sands.

I'm not sure if they'd be qualified as good but I did find them all fairly enjoyable.

What's halfway between The Road and The Magicians trilogy in terms of tone?

I want some slow-boil, character-driven sci-fi or fantasy that can be staggeringly bleak but also exciting and occasionally even happy, with kickass action sequences.

>>9632803
Cry more.

>>9633979
>His Dark Materials
Shit, I remember this one. Wow my tastes have changed. I liked it when I was a kid, but now not so much. Though I guess that happens a lot to people.

>>9634075
...Dorohedoro? Maybe? I think? The plot's beyond esoteric, following a dozen+ characters as their individual plotlines converge and separate. It's pretty dark and gruesome too. Yes, that is a man cutting another man into pieces with magic.

>>9634315
Is there an anime for that? It looks cool.

>>9634395
I don't watch anime anyways, but it doesn't look like it's been adapted. Sorry.

This is driving me mad, but can anyone place this vignette for me - it's not the main plot of the novel, but some guy goes in to investigate some hunting club, and it turns out they're bio-engineering the animals to be able to use guns and stuff. For the life of me, I can't get it, thought it was Gavin Smith or Peter F Hamilton's Greg Mandel series, but can't resolve it in the search terms.

>>9634286
Yeah I read it for the first time last year and while I didn't hate it, I did feel like I would have enjoyed it way more as a kid.

>>9627132
Red seas under red skies

>>9634665
He asked for good books

>>9623674
I want characters I can fall in love with again ;_;

>>9634881
Name some you've loved.

>>9634655
I still like HDM but then I did read it as a kid so it's probably nostalgia softening my view of it. Similar to the first couple Artemis Fowl books.

What titles are considered prime Heinlein?

>>9635295
Have Spaceship, Citizen of the Galaxy, Door into Summer.

Other Heinlein might be more popular or more influential but those are what I consider his best.

NEW THREAD

>>9635513
>>9635513
>>9635513

>>9635295
>>9635305
Most popular are Stranger in a Strange Land, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Starship Troopers and Time Enough for Love plus his short fiction which is mostly collected in The Past Through Tomorrow.
My personal favorite is Friday.

>>9633931
You just remember some of them are, and plaster that onto everyone.