/lit/ - Literature

>>9603606
>tfw no theme links

>>9603606
Waait a second, is that Jasnah doing Warbreaker magic?

A Song of Ice and Fire was the best thing that happened to the Genre

>>9603644

That's absolutely true, and only contrarians without comprehension skills deny it.

>>9603606
Delete this thread. The other one has more replies

>>9603653
I'll tell you more I didn't even read the series but it had an amazing influence on publishers to push new fantasy authors

>>9603606
Malazan. Is. Amazing.

D E S U

Did anyone else picture Dorcas from BotNS as Elle Fanning

>Pillars of Eternity is best fantasy novel of the last decade.

>>9603644
Not really it spawned those cancerous realism novels.

>>9603714
that's house of chains.

Why do most people seem to confuse fantasy from fiction?

>>9603731
Fantasy implies supernatural themes or "sub-themes"

>>9603606
Sanderson should stop writing romance. Every time there's a romantic scene I have to put the book down. His usual dialogue was bad enough but his romantic dialogue is something else. He has a wife so I have no idea why he's so bad at it

>>9603714
>an underwhelming game with a bad story is the best fantasy novel of the last decade
ok
half-life is my favorite sci-fi movie of all time
shingeki no kyojin is my favorite rts

>>9603743
He wouldn't write so many fucking books if he was good at romance.

>>9603748
I really enjoyed those memories you could read, and the last act was pretty good. Also liked the pantheons/lore.
Villain was a great voice actor too.

Which and when books gave you goose bumps?

Words of Radiance
Kaladin vs Bald Anime Character

>>9603743
Mormons don't have to date to get married

>>9603764
As I said to the other person (or you) the reading of memories was the worst part of the game. I don't care how good you think the writing was, they served absolutely no purpose. They had nothing to do with the story, and you couldn't confront people about what you discovered; worse still, you couldn't even fucking use this amazing ability you have on your own party members? Like, what the fuck? As I said, the story about Eothas and the Godhammer was 10/10. All I ever could've wanted. We didn't need to go to the generic epic fantasy bullshit by the end. Also, most of the companions sucked donkey dick, and I'm amazed how little lines of conversation there are when most of it ISN'T EVEN VOICE ACTED. Could they seriously not add some layers of depth to those fucking characters by lengthening the conversations? What would that have taken, half an hour per character? Incredible. The only reason this game gets so much praise is because it's a glimmer of hope for CRPG fans. Of course, compared to Tyranny and Numenera it's a priceless jewel. Tyranny had YA tier writing, and some of the worst CRPG mechanics. Numenera has a great setting, but the game itself feels disjointed and is way too short. I eagerly look forward to the next Pillars.

>>9603771

Storm of Swords: When Jaime tells Tyrion the truth about Tysha.
Deadhouse Gates: When Mappo comforts Icarium at the end.
Memories of Ice: Really, the whole last section of the book, but especially when Tool rescues that guy and calls him his brother.

>>9603771
You must be underage if you get goosebumps from anime fights

>>9603780
I thought Bakker was the Mormon?

Nice Anime OP.

>>9603812
Bakker is the GRI pseudosopher.

Is there anything else out there like Discworld? I've read and reread everything and I'm dying for something with the same level of ambition, creativity and humour.

>>9603660
Kek.
>reddit user wants to feel good having a bunch of people reply to a thread he made
An Hero now.

Reposting from last thread.
>>9603405
Hello Mr. Newfag. Guy who helped start and keep afloat sffg 2 years+ ago here. Sanderson was never shit talked as much as he is recently. A few months ago this Sanderson shit started. Before he was someone "with workman like prose who released regularly". That was it. Nothing great, but entertaining. You few shitposters trying to influence hate isn't working. Only other trolls are responding to you when you spoiler post "Sanderson", people that actually read don't bother with you. We might respond once, but when we see you haven't actually read the book you are bashing, and you never will, we ignore you. What continues after is someone wanting to get a response.

Please take your ass out of our general and back to memeing about the bible, IJ and Nick.

“When I was a lad, my mother said,
‘You dry your tears and go to bed;
I know my son will travel far,
Born beneath a shooting star.’

“In after years, my father said,
As he pulled my hair and knocked my head,
‘They mustn’t whimper at a scar,
Who’re born beneath a shooting star.’

“A mage I met, and the mage he said,
‘I see for you a future red,
Fire and riot, raid and war,
O born beneath a shooting star.’

“A shepherd I met, and the shepherd said,
‘We sheep must go where we are led,
To Dawn-Gate where the angels are,
Following the shooting star.’”

Booorn beneath ashootin staaarrr
>dudut-duuu du DU DU DUUUU

>Finished sins of empire
There better be some new fucking gods next book fucks sake

>>9603895

>>9604086
Why? Gods are fucking boring. Out of all of them, Adom is the only one who isn't complete shit. Kresimir was more interesting and threatening before he showed up, only to get BTFO by Taniel. Brude were fucking underwhelming, considering they were the main villains behind everything. Also,
they killed based Tamas.

>>9604202
Because there was so much shit about MUH GODSTONES that if someone doesn't become a god it's fucking bullshit shitty writing
Also >no nadya or bo
Bo was literally the best toon in the series

Recommend me a good fantasy series. I need something to hold me over until Winds of Winter.

I gave up on Wheel of Time and Prince of Nothing.

>>9604245
Prince of Thorns
Anything from sanderson or that other sandersonian guy

>>9604245
SArchiveStormLight

>>9604230
>toon
Also,
>Nadya
If you mean Nila, then she is a Mary Sue bitch and checking her Privilege was a mistake.

>>9604279
yeah the blue fist bitch, i wanted to see more of her, she was a pretty interesting toon but we only read the beginning of her story, i want to see what she's been up to in 10 years and how far she has progressed

>>9604295
>tfw anon is unironically not talking about rabbits, ducks, or pigs

Does anybody here like TES? It's such a shame they never branched out into doing a few novels. It would be a great setting for a comedy.

>>9604316
I don't understand
calle calle

>>9604323
>implying it isn't full of them
IIRC there were one or two written.

>>9603663
>>9603653
>>9603644
>Didn't even read it

Get the fuck off this board you absolute retards.

Dont. Even. Read.

FFS

>>9604340
I did read it.Nice Reddit spacing though :).

why are we still arguing about ASOFAI?

isn't it generally agreed books 1-3 were pretty good but then it got lost and confused. what else is there to say?

What fantasy novels include a main character being able to take over someone's mind? Not quite like warging but being able to control them for a couple short seconds that gradual becomes more powerful.

>>9604347
>I didn't even read the series but it had an amazing influence on publishers to push new fantasy authors

Killyourselfnigger

>>9604365
Powder Mage trilogy

>>9604363
no worldbuilding, no consistency, flooded with unimportant, dull characters, politics make no fucking sense, characters have no motivation beyond personal power, hardly any real fantasy elements that are never explored or fleshed out, did I mention lame characters?

the plot goes no where fast with no cohesive structure or themes other than "oh man life sure sucks and everyone dies"

Poorly written garbage from page 1.

>>9604369
Are you autistic? That was the other guy. Jesus, you people are stupid.

>>9604363
>only books 1-3 were good
>being this much of a pleb
I recommend Warbreaker, anon. Or maybe Stormlight Archive is more up your alley.
>>9604391
Why do you not make any arguments? Give me examples of all that bad world-building, lack of consistency, dull characters, and character's without motivation beyond personal power. You just sound like a moron that's never read the books. Out of the entire cast I don't think there's a single one motivated by power. Maybe Petyr.
>no cohesive structure
Martin knew how the books were going to end long before he started them, as we saw in the drafts that were released. While that ending changed, it's doubtful that he's working from nothing, especially considering that he gave D&D the ending long before they even started GoT. Come with real arguments or eat shit. Stop blabbering.

>>9604391
>no worldbuilding
there's a fair amoung, a good variety of locations are visited or mentioned in the first book alone
>>9604391
>dull characters
Tyrion is funny, fatty king boy is funny, others slower like Ned or Jon but you understand their more serious motivation
>>9604391
>politics make no fucking sense
elaborate
>>9604391
>no motivation beyond personal power
what about honour, or children, or duty? these can be attributed to fairly keystone characters
>>9604391
>hardly any real fantasy elements
fair enough it's not high fantasy but that's hardly a critacism, it's the genre

rest of your points are negligible.
Admittedly I don't read a dramatic amount of fantasy but I remember thinking at least 1 and 2 were decent.

>>9604424
oh heck, that sure looks retarded

>>9604375

Damn. I guess it's not a unique ability to fantasy or science fiction literature since I can probably get away with using it, if I remember correctly The Mule uses something similar.

>>9604455
And the entire second foundation.

I'm interested in reading some Garth Nix, and so far most people seem to say it's good "for YA". What does "for YA" mean in this context? The term is so vague and people shove edge and suffering in young adult works all the time anyway so I have no idea what themes it's supposed to be referring to. Does it mean there's no GRI, deep philosophical or political themes or something, or does it refer to the characters being a bit one dimensional? Or literally just the characters age? I don't mind juvenile themes at all as long as the characters and story are solid.

>>9604472
Sabriel is 10/10

>>9604424
>>9604418
>No worldbuilding
Its literally a modified map of the UK and only explores maybe 20% of the locations on the map with any detail. There's no such thing as "worldbuilding" when you're working with a world that already fucking existed. Pic related

>dull characters
GRRM doesn't flesh out most of his characters or give them any roundness or development, BECAUSE HE FUCKING KILLS THEM. Notice how the two, TWO good characters, Tyrion and Jaime don't die! (Maybe they do I haven't read past the 3rd book)

>Politics make no sense
Just look at the magical assassinations in the second book and the wedding in the third. Need I say anything else about the buttfuckery that this fat fuck tries to pass off as "politics?"

>No motivation beyond personal power
You fucking heard me right the first time.

>No cohesive structure
The fucking wolves. I read that first chapter thinking that he was going to do something, ANYTHING with those god damn Dire wolves, but no. No. He fucking kills and gets rid of almost all of them WITHIN ONE BOOK. The most interesting piece of the world that drew me in is FUCKING GONE in one book!

Fuck GRRM Fuck ASOFaI, trash writing that I wasted too much time trying to find value in.

>>9604475
Alright maybe you've never been to the UK, but Hadrian wall is a little bit less significant, the capital is certainly not Derby and the Northern Irish get a little less sun than Dorne. There's geographical similarities and a dubiously similar shape, yeah, but land forms that way genius. The 7 kingdoms are just repainted version of various euro nations, that's a legit criticism but a common one
your second point is oblong. he doesn't flesh out chracters, he kills them. shit i was pretty pissed when Ned died and other deaths made me rustled too.
the wedding is based off a real event, and the magic assassination was both a jarring shift of the events so far with the introduction of magic, and finally a reason not to support stannis
ok
he plays with your expectations, if you could concentrate you'd see the wolves fate reflects largely the Stark kids fates too

what kind of writing do you enjoy then? high brow shit? (not being sarcastic)

>>9604418
got a lot to read but if I fancy some fantasy i'll check em out, thanks

Are light novels /sffg/?

>>9604505
I hear this "It was based off real events" argument a lot. Why is it fantasy? Why not just call it shitty historical fiction, because that's what it is?
>what kind of writing do you enjoy then
Bait. No one on this board ENJOYS reading. To say that they do is to be outed as a psued
That being said I like Bradbury, Simmons, Sanderson, Brent Weeks as far as sci-fi/fantasy goes

>>9604475
>Its literally a modified map of the UK... a world that already fucking existed.
Your point? I see nothing wrong with that, especially when Martin has admitted it himself. The historical inspiration is all there, and it carries over to the map as well. I don't understand what your problem is, since this has essentially nothing to do with world-building. Everything from the relationships between the noble houses to the history of Westeros is fleshed out without any pain to the reader. Your other argument is just plain fucking retarded. So because we don't go to every spot on the map it's bad world-building? Literally, WHAT?
>GRRM doesn't flesh out most of his characters or give them any roundness or development, BECAUSE HE FUCKING KILLS THEM. Notice how the two, TWO good characters, Tyrion and Jaime don't die! (Maybe they do I haven't read past the 3rd book)
Again, you're saying nothing. What is roundness and development? Give me clear examples of what you think is lacking, and then we can talk. You're just spouting nonsense and you're expected to be taking seriously without putting any meat on the table. Also, it's clear that some characters are going to live till the end (like Arya and Jon, who end up together and married in the original draft) and that others are likely to die (I can't imagine a happy ending for Petyr). For the most part though, if you leave aside the memes, most of the characters live, both main and secondary ones.
>Just look at the magical assassinations in the second book and the wedding in the third. Need I say anything else about the buttfuckery that this fat fuck tries to pass off as "politics?"
Again, what is the problem? I asked you for specifics. What is it about those events? And yes, you definitely need to say more. Explain to me what the issue is about the politics that fail on a functional level.
>You fucking heard me right the first time.
I didn't. Again, you're saying nothing substantive. Which are the characters that are only driven for personal power? Name them and provide evidence for your claim. Either that, or you don't understand what motivation means when we're talking about storytelling.
>The fucking wolves. I read that first chapter thinking that he was going to do something, ANYTHING with those god damn Dire wolves, but no. No. He fucking kills and gets rid of almost all of them WITHIN ONE BOOK. The most interesting piece of the world that drew me in is FUCKING GONE in one book!
Again, what? What does this have to do with structure in any way? Can you say anything of value or are you too stupid to provide any meaningful arguments for your position? I'm pretty sure you haven't read the books, not even up to the third. Only a show-fag would talk this way, because the wolves are present throughout in Arya, Bran, Jon PoVs. Never mind the fact that the fourth book provides evidence that wargs can slip into animals after they die, which is exactly what happens to Jon.

>>9604533
>literally providing an example of shit writing in the picture

Just look at how many superfluous characters there are in that image. SPOILER its all of them, because no character has any real meaning a book where everyone dies for no reason.

>>9604543
Amazing reply. You're unworthy of anyone's time.

>>9604472
They're probably a tad juvenile but try reading them, his books are fun.
>>9604513
Japanese light novels are /a/, korean or chink stuff don't have a home

>>9604563
But they do, and it's here. Last time I checked this is the sci-fi and fantasy, not Anglo sci-fi and fantasy. If we can discuss Strugatsky, we can discuss Wuxia and Xianxia.

>>9604548
Just like GRRM lol

Don't expect a real argument when all you do is throw out someone else's because:
>Your point?

Kill yourself, you dumb psued nigger.

>>9604475
>BECAUSE HE FUCKING KILLS THEM
Hardly a single fucker die past the first book. Seems like every second rate magician, no matter what discipline, can resurrect people past book 2.

>>9604714
>Seems like every second rate magician, no matter what discipline, can resurrect people past book 2
Such as? Berric is the only one we ever see that gets "resurrected," and even then has identify issues. Catelyn gets resurrected after and - from what we've seen so far - she hardly resembles her old self. Do you have any other examples? I would love to hear them. I guess Qyburn made the Clegane into a an undead servant, but I don't think that's what you're talking about considering that it's not a resurrection so much as re-animaton. I would love to hear more.

>>9604582
No. If you want to discuss that garbage you can go to wuxiaworld

Is reamde really that bad? I'm considering buying physical book right now.

>>9603697
Boi ganoes paran is underused in paran story arc

>>9604769
Both of the Cleganes are supposed to be dead, Berric, Catelyn, skinchangers and >implying Jon won't be resurrected. I might have jumped the shark slightly with saying everyone's resurrected, more like people thought to be dead have a habit of turning up perfectly alive.

>>9604262
This. Read the broken empire series

>>9604714
The fuck are you talking about

>>9605065
>Both of the Cleganes are supposed to be dead
Not true. Sandor is never shown to die, Arya just leaves him. And then we have the theory that he is the Gravedigger which is just that for the moment - a theory. As far as Gregor goes, he's not resurrected so much as re-animated, as stated above. Maybe that's not a meaningful distinction in your eyes, but it is in mine. I very much there's anything of the Mountain in Qyburn's creation, or anything human in general: he doesn't shit, doesn't eat, and doesn't talk. And as far as we know, the skull sent to the Martells may be Gregor's real skull. Neither of these count as a "resurrection" in the way you're talking about.
>Berric, Catelyn
We've already covered these, and that their returns are more fucked up each time. It's also relevant to add that they don't both get resurrected at the same time as if it were nothing. Berric has to sacrifice his own life in order to bring Catelyn back, and he's aware of this. It's likely that there's an element that gets deteriorated over time in these reincarnations, which is why by the time this "kiss of life" gets to Catelyn, it can't bring her back properly.
>implying Jon won't be resurrected
I doubt that he will. The only reason they had to resurrect him in the show is that they abandoned warging completely, so having Jon come back through that rather than some dumb spell would have seen less rational to the TV audience. However, Jon's soul (or consciousness, if you prefer) has already passed into Ghost. That he's coming back goes without saying, I just don't think we'll see a bodily resurrection. I think it's far more likely that he's going to possess some unfortunate fucker permanently.

I think it's clear to see that you didn't just jump the shark in what you said, but went out of your way to portray the series in a deeply uncharitable way. Not only are the number of proper resurrections limited to two people (that we know of, at least), but only one of them resembles the past self at all.

Lastly, there are no cop outs here. That people want to think of ASoIaF as some cutting-edge historical realist series and can't take accept anything magical have made their own arbitrary criteria by which to judge it. We know of people coming "back" from the fucking prologue, where corpses are being re-animated by the Others. And then we have Old Nan's story that mentions that yet again, the Stark kids warging into their direwolves, and weirwoods "watching" people like some goddamn conscious network. The series has always been full-on fantasy, from the very first pages of A Game of Thrones.

>>9605073
I don't know why a lot of people here hate that series, apart from "muh edge", it's pretty great

>>9603771
Last Argument of Kings.

The fight between Logen and Fenris the Feared

>>9604245
What are the honest chances of Martin ever finishing A Dream of Spring when(if???) he finishes The Winds of Winter?

I give it 1/10000 chance or thereabouts. Needs a miracle

>>9604475
While I don't agree with the rest I agree that out of the POV characters only Jaime and Tyrion are any good.

>>9605515
He's not even going to finish The Winds of Winter. Even if he did it would have been a shitty book.

>>9605537
I do think he will finish it and it will be another dance with dragons.

But there is a clear risk(chance?) he won't finish it.

When looking back at all the foreshadowing in AGOT and how he clealy had the endgame in mind even back then you wonder what the fuck went wrong.

>>9605515
At this point I'm thinking WoW will be posthumously published.

>>9605550
>you wonder what the fuck went wrong.
He's a lazy fat fuck. There is no mystery

>>9605567
>At this point I'm thinking WoW will be posthumously published.
>By George RR Martin and Brandon Sanderson
Be careful what you wish for. I don't really care for aSoIaF much but GRRM is leagues above Sanderson

>>9605591
That would be amazing

>>9605591
>Tyrion becomes a quip machine just like what happened to Mat

>>9605591
He's already said he put into his will that nobody will be allowed to continue his series if he dies. So no Wheel of Time-esque continuation with another author for ASoIaF. But I believe there's already enough written for TWoW for it to be published even if he dies. Martin is just dragging his heels and probably bickering with editors over changes. I think he's trying to change stuff he had planned to make it so the show doesn't spoil as much, even though he claimed he wouldn't alter his plotlines a few years ago. That was before he probably grew to dislike the show.

>>9605550
Same thing with Wheel of Time, it just got bogged down with side plots and new character perspectives to keep track of. He wanted to cram more and more stuff into the story and it slowed the pace to a crawl, to such an extent that he had to omit perspectives from book 4 in order to fit all the plot lines he wanted into the story. Jordan had to do the same thing with book 4 or 5 of his series too, the one where he completely omitted Perrin and all characters closely associated with him because there were too many new characters to keep track of at that point. And after he reintroduced Perrin the plot slowed to a crawl and characters just seemed to be treading water for 90% of the book.

A side effect of getting bogged down in side plots is it kills your drive to continue the story, because getting to the good, exciting parts is now a huge pain in the ass if you don't want to get lazy and just do time skip or kill off all the superfluous characters as quickly as possible to free up chapters.

>>9605609
Did Jordan want someone to finish the series?

>>9605604
The worst thing about Sanderson's WoT was Androl

>>9603895
i think it should be a given rule that if you call anyone a pseud, you need to know exactly why they are a pseud. you need to establish what they are trying to espouse, and why they know fuck all or are pretending to know anything about it. otherwise, you are, by definition, the actual pseud.

Rothfuss_.

How do you deal with post-book depression, sff?

>>9605840
By daydreaming my own plots of adventure and magic. Then I become depressed because I'll never be a good enough writer to put all of it on paper.

Anybody read The Scar by Marina and Sergey Dyachenko? Apparently it's pretty good. It's about a sort of Gastion style character who gets maimed in a duel and cursed to be a coward.

>>9605840
>How do you deal with post-book depression, sff?
Through the overwhelming power of characterfaggotry until I find a new book.

Also /ic/ shit and daydreaming my own plots.

>>9605652
His wife did.
She was his editor, and his wife. She inherited and contacted Sanderson. From what I understand Jordan was a mentor to Sanderson. Like how Sanderson is a mentor to the powder mage guy.

Imma just post this here.

>>9605840
Pick up the next book on my list, or revisit a series I really liked until I find a new one to read.

>>9605840
If I took notes or at least marked favorite passages I'll go back and read through them. Also, if it's fiction and references other works (whether music, literature, art, etc) I'll spend some time getting into those and perhaps even doing a second reading.

>>9604003
We have a Gene Wolfe general for you types.

>>9605840
I don't, I'll try really hard to find something similar but there's usually nothing similar and I get pissed off

So, what is a good sci-fi book about genetic manipulation and the repercussions of it?

>>9606529
Brave New World

>>9606529
Cyteen.

>>9606529
Red Rising :^)

>>9606578
I am never reading a book like this on /sffg/'s """recommendation"""" again.

>>9606578
stop shilling that shit book here

>>9604155
I don't keep up with genre-writers under the age of 70. Explain this meme to me.

>>9606529
David Brin's Uplift series maybe? Never read it myself.

Im on book 2 of The Wheel of Time, really liking it so far, is it worth it to stick around for the whole thing?

>>9606629
>something something bakker is a hack fag something something wolfe is a god amongst mortals

>>9606684
Have you been paying attention nigga? Have you seen how many people have crawled back into /sffg/ from that series with nothing but broken dreams and the word "Sanderson" on their lips? Get out while you still can

>>9606684
No. And what I mean is it isn't worth it if you have to make yourself trudge through the next 12 books. As long as you're enjoying it you'll enjoy the ride even when it seems like it's going nowhere. But really the series is way too goddamn long for any kind of payoff that's worth it unless the books literally sucked on your penis as you read them.

>>9606684
If you're enjoying it why are you asking? Read until you stop enjoying it.

>>9606830
I think that that anon is referring to the cancerous gnawing fear that the series that you are so far enjoying will gradually, gradually turn into irredeemable shit and you will no longer be able to tear yourself away from it and become forced to keep reading as your favourite characters slowly turn into parodies of themselves.

>>9606875
You could just say he's autistic and leave it at that.

>>9606684
Keep reading it if you like it. Why stop reading something you're enjoying? Because people on /lit/ say it's bad? People in these very threads have called WoT shit from book 1 onwards. And yet you're still enjoying it. So keep reading until you no longer enjoy it.

>>9606936
Why use one word when you can use one hundred?

>>9604323
It's my favorite vidya lore.

>>9606529
It's disappointing how few authors tackle this. It has gotten hard to take scifi seriously when there's no significant eugenics, knowing that within 5-10 years we'll be making hyper geniuses in real life.

>>9606993
>knowing that within 5-10 years we'll be making hyper geniuses in real life.
>within 5-10 years
And how, may I ask, will this be done? I won't even mention citation needed.

>>9607013
IVF, choose the embryo with the most intelligence genes. Also CRISPR, change a bunch of intelligence genes to on, the chinks are trying it with some AIDS resistant gene right now

>>9607038
>IVF, choose the embryo with the most intelligence genes
I'm no neuroscientist, but everything I've got on this topic from various books and lectures given by high-grade professionals makes me doubt this is even close to the truth. It's never this simple. There's always hype about the scientific community having "figured out" something until they test it out and find out that it doesn't work that way after all.

>>9607038
I did do a uni course in genetics.

Basically from what I am reading the chinese did is use CRISPR to cut the viral DNA in a specific place. When the DNA is repaired, often it is shitty causing either deletions or insertions of DNA which makes the virus non functioning.

This is very different from gene insertion. If you read the Nature article you will find that they've been able to block the gene from being expressed, enhance expression or cut DNA or block the gene expression epigenetically.

Choosing embryos isn't really genetic engineering, it's basically a variation of what farmers have been doing for centuries, picking and choosing the biggest and juciest crops to breed. This was what Hitler was also trying to do so I suppose you are right in saying that it is eugenics but it isn't a new science. There also isn't a a way of selecting intelligence genes, it's like being handed a whole bunch of letters with no instruction manual for what they stand for. In some diseases there is like a very recognisable one letter change so we can test for it. With other things like intelligence you could have five hundred letters contributing to it, how would you know which one is responsible?

There is an obvious answer, to look at as many as possible or try to change letters yourself and see what they do. We can do this on animals like with flies but obviously they aren't humans. Humans also grow more slowly so you might never see the results if successful or unsuccessful in a human even if it was allowed (which it isn't). You also can't select embryos for things based on sex currently, in a lot of countries unless it is to avoid a disease (which like I said earlier, often these are single letter changes.)

>you guys made me get stormlight archive
>now i even have warbreaker on my phone in audio
I only read Sandershit ironically, mark m-my w-words.

>>9607406
You should try Lightbringer, Gentleman Bastards, Jasper Fforde's Shades of Grey, James Islington and Timothy Zahn's stuff next and when you've finished the entire Cosmere then you can try the science fiction classics. Asimov, PKD, Alfred Bester etc - all are as easy to read as Sanderson's stuff and very enjoyable.

Then you can get into the super enjoyable stuff like Tigana, Vance's Dying Earth, Peter Watts etc.

Reading is like descending like a pile of locusts onto a book until you wipe out everything you enjoy and move on in search of more material.

>>9607515
>try a mountain of garbage and then eventually you can start reading the handful of /sffg/ authors that aren't awful
Or anon could just drop whatever garbage is in his hands at the moment and start reading Tales of the Dying Earth right now.

>>9607590
A list of books in order of potential acceptability based on their tastes.

>>9607590
>>9607515
I've already read these, guys. I was only making a point about Sanderson because I avoided him for so long... But you can't outrun evil forever.

>>9607630
Well you run out of books at one point.

>>9604365
Simmon's Carrion Comfort.

>>9605818
M O D S
O
D
S[/sopiler]

>>9605818
M O D S
O
D
S

>>9606317
Nothing in zealots?

>>9606684
You should at least read until the end of book 5 or 6 to know what Mat is about. After that the story slows down a lot, but I still enjoyed it years ago when I wasn't so critical. I've never read the Sanderson part though.

>>9606219
I'm a dirty pervert but I would ruin Jordan's wife.

>>9606578
>>9606529
Second red rising
Also: Neal Asher, Hull zero three, metro 2033, shades of grey, library at mount char, Prince of thorns

Key: Spoilered ones are revealed after reading the books

>>9607590
>and start reading Tales of the Dying Earth right now.
>Dying Earth
Fuck off shill. You chase more people out of this general with your poorly aged books. Not because you enjoyed these books when they were first released, means others will enjoy them decades later. Sanderson is popular for a reason, those memorize two spells only shit don't cut it with today's crowd. The human brain is vast, and it only has space for two fucking spells? That don't even nuke a planet?

This generation is more educated than Vance's, so we need more information to believe (look at the damn hard scifi nuts in this general).

>>9606317
seven eves ? you are cancer

>>9605160
>but went out of your way to portray the series in a deeply uncharitable way
Firstly, I don't have nearly as much against the series as you seem to assume. In the reoccurring discussion regarding however ASoIaF is a turd or the best thing to happen to fantasy you'll find me leaning towards the second opinion. People not dying like they used to is just a minor complaint.

Maybe I'm not only jumping the shark but also moving the goalposts (as my complaint was not really thought out when I sent my first shitpost) a fair bit here but there are to many fake outs during the books. Davos is another character, like Sandor (assuming) and Berric that was stated dead but then but then turned out alive. There's also that Targaryen prince that turn up over in the free cities. This is just my opinion and all but a thing I really liked about the earlier books was that when your favorite characters did something dangerous you actually feared for their life, in the later books people make it out of almost everything one way or another. Even when they stabbed Jon to death I didn't worry that much, there's not only his wolf but also a magic fire whore within a mile.

>>9605374
Agreed. I find the setting refreshing compared to other fantasy novels.

@9608216
Sometime when you have absolutely no idea what to post but still want to it's better to just write 'bump' than to try winging it.

>>9608232
>I can't read, just look at pictures
It's listed under shit, and young adult is listed under trash
>how do I read
>wtf am I doing in the literature board

>>9608216
Apparently education is directly correlated with being able to remember spells

>>9608248
Reddit, that is not how you fucking reply you tard
>gene wolfe fans can't really read
Not surprised

>>9605803
We are all actual pseuds here mate.

Why is everyone so angry? I thought this was a comfy topic to talk about fantasy books with bros.

>>9608216
Do you really believe that this thread is full of 90 year old curmudgeons that read all of these books as a young'n in the 30's?

>>9608248
>@

What the fuck?

>>9607038
>most intelligence genes
there is no "intelligence" gene you hack

>>9607297
smartest guy here

Resident Wolfefags pls respond.
If any of this gets answered in the third book then don't bother:
I understand how the chariot race at the end of the second book ties into the politics but how does it tie into the bigger subplot of Gaea vs Artemis?

What is the significance of the dream involving Polos Latro seems to share with Pasicrates and why does it change the Spartan's mood and behaviour so much?

Did the Spartans kill all the slaves after the ceremony that was supposed to free them?
Why?
Why was Latro spared?

I might not remember this correctly but what happens with the oracle that Pausanias(?) will lead the slaves of the rope makers to freedom? I mean the one that happens after the child sacrifice scene in the first book.

>>9608363
There's a few thousand my friend, in the last few years researchers have identified them.
>>9607297
Choosing an embryo based on an analysis of it's genetics is extremely high level eugenics, you could get a 99th percentile baby every time

>eugenics
>intelligence breeding
>perfect human
>genetics
>gene manipulation
You guys just can't hide huh?

>>9605503
really? I thought that Logen shagging Ferro was way more interesting, especially with Jezal crying in the background. top kek material right there.

>>9605591
>GRRM is leagues above Sanderson

/lit/ doesn't even read

i'm a big fan of hellblazer comics. can you guys recommend some more good occult detective fiction?

>reading New York 2140
>airfoil boat guy flirty with head of the householder's union
WHEN DO THEY FUCK???? Please tell me they fuck.

>>9608657
Dresden Files
Felix Castor
Library at mount char
The Dresden Files knockoff Alex something.

>>9608657
Excellent taste desu. I've also been looking for something similar in book form, but so far no luck (although there are apparently two Hellblazer novels, for what that's worth).

>>9608764
Dresden Files is almost good, but it leans too heavily on "quirky humor" and paranormal romance tropes

>>9608781
And the other suggestions?

>>9608241
I can't say I ever felt that way about them the first time reading it, and now upon rereading I see it as even less of a problem. I admit that I was annoyed when the new Targaryen showed up out of nowhere, and I thought it was a complete ass pull but then I realized he's not a Targaryen and that it makes perfect sense that people would use the name in the context of the story.. I don't feel that way about those characters either... I think it was clear from the start that Dany/Jon/Arya/Bran/Tyrion weren't going to be taken out of the story until the late endgame. I hate this everybody can die bullshit promoted by the show-runners, because ASoIaF is nothing special in this respect. It's anybody can die except these special snowflakes - which is how most series are.

>>9608498
there's no human-specific gene families we know of, our brains ability is due to size/delayed puberty/gestation.
I suppose genes influencing these could be altered to create denser or larger brains, so perhaps you're right

>>9608830
>rightful purple eyed queen
>midget advice behind the throne
>Jon KotS and Wall
>mage support
>gold hand bangs buff chick
>onion knight actual champion of firegod
>dog kills undead mountain

Happy ending for all

in any other fantasy series sure. If GRRM leaves the show to do the happy ending and writes the book for everyone to die in a puddle of blood, vengeance and sadness, with the wites overrunning the land with no succinct military magical force to stop them, that's okay too.

>>9608497
have no fear. no answers in the third book, so I will do it for you. First off, Polos is a centaur but Aglaus is a faun, helping Latro remember. The priest, nymph, and faun, spellbound from the prophecy of Apollo is enacted in this dream. When Latro talks to the serpentine woman in the first book, she promises to send him a faun to help him in his "dream" (she is either Medea, the dragon of Colchis, or the Lernean Hydra, who possesses Eurykles and makes "him" Drakaina.

Yes, the spartans killed ALL the slaves save Latro, making him depressed and disgusted with them. The sacrifices to Pleistorus(Ares) in Thrace involved cutting off the arm of those who were killed for the god (see Herodotus) and here Latro returns the ghost of Pasicrates's arm to him and they reconcile (rejecting the sacrifice). In history, Oebazos was sacrificed to pleistorus as well, but in Wolfe's version he is saved. The oracle of Pausanias leading the rope makers to victory is tricky: he is supposed to be their enemy but his subsequent historical position weakens Sparta and he is eventually, I think, considered a traitor for his Persian allegiance. Latro was spared because he is the special agent of Pausanias's victory. The race favored Hecate/Artemis/Moon over the Earth Mother - she is seen on the ship with Latro and at the start of the second book her promises through Elata reveal the whole point (when she shows up as the Huntress and Latro first makes love to Elata).

>>9608497
For the significance of Pleistorus's/Ares sacrifices being rejected, remember that he is equated with the all good god Ahura Mazda incognito ... and the prince in the temple of Pleistorus CALLS LATRO PLEISTORUS ... what would happen if the manifestation of the God of War became sick of War, especially if he were an aspect of the all-good God of the Persians? Here's a hint: Pax Roman, birth of Christ. Pan is dead.

>>9603606

What does this general think of Norman Spinrad and why is he the most based science fiction writer of the 60s and 70s?

>>9608497
as to why, the Spartans are just bastards. They promised to free the slaves - very well, freed in death. Simply a shitty culture, and Wolfe is on record in a podcast from 2013 or so calling them one of the most evil cultures which ever arose; he also mentions how they conceived of the gift of a silver chariot to ruin Themistocles.

It's been more than 2 years.
Where is the GRI approved chart?
If no one is going to make it, give me GRI novels so I can make the chart.

>end of book is clearly leading to some sort of defined climax that will show the effects and efforts of the main character
>book actually ends before that happens
fuck you ursula k. I wanted to know what happened to shevek

>>9606529
I don't give a fuck what anyone says, this motherfucker here has the best quotes about genetic manipulation.
>We hold life to be sacred, but we also know the foundation of life consists in a stream of codes not so different from the successive frames of a watchvid. Why then cannot we cut one code short here, and start another there? Is life so fragile that it can withstand no tampering? Does the sacred brook no improvement?
>Why do you insist that the human genetic code is "sacred" or "taboo"? It is a chemical process and nothing more. For that matter -we- are chemical processes and nothing more. If you deny yourself a useful tool simply because it reminds you uncomfortably of your mortality, you have uselessly and pointlessly crippled yourself.
>My gift to industry is the genetically engineered worker, or Genejack. Specially designed for labor, the Genejack's muscles and nerves are ideal for his task, and the cerebral cortex has been atrophied so that he can desire nothing except to perform his duties. Tyranny, you say? How can you tyrannize someone who cannot feel pain?
Shame the books themselves are not very good.

>>9609358
>what happened to shevek
swear he marries fionna

>>9609105
>>9609113
>>9609174
Not gonna lie, so much in this book goes over my head. I guess that's the way it's supposed to be.
Just realizing that all the slaves were killed took me like 5 re-reads of the passage.
Never mind thing with the dream and the arm which I would have never came up with myself.

>>9609629
The dream sequence is still something I am trying to parse ... the majority of Wolfe's subtext actually goes over almost everybody's heads, to be honest. I am working on explaining Pasicrates better .., there is a weird moment when Pasicrates denies that Latro is a Hellene, and Latro uses his memory palace to pull out a Pythian ode and prove his "Greekness" to compete in the olympics, and the images he uses are a falcon headed god of egypt (Horus, god of war) and Sobek the crocodile headed god (also a god of war, though one of apotropaic and sinister nature at times). In his quote, "Fell Ares quits the war-proud throng" - it seems that the God of War is no longer proud of the killing in battle. But what is the importance of Pasicrates? Are they re-enacting the gay dominance of Set and Horus? (When Set can't get his seed in Horus, they wind up having a race instead ... but I don't think Pasicrates has the divine power of Latro, who even frees Sisyphus from his eternal fate (the other shade says that only the god who imprisoned Sisyphus can free him ... and in one version of the story it is Ares who condemns Sisyphus for making it difficult to kill in war due to trickery with Hades, though there are other stories. Awesome books.

Fuck Steerpike. What a twat.
Team Flay

>>9609720
Yeah. Silver Spike was a shitty book

>>9609720
Did I meme good guys?

Did I meme good guys?

>>9609720
I was rooting for Swelter.

>>9603653
>>9603663
ASoIaF is a solid fantasy series. People are just being contrarian because of the success of the show, which does suck.
Inb4 the tax meme. I can enjoy Wagner without condoning anti-semitism as well.

>>9609805
Fuschia is growing on me.
I haven't finished yet. But Swelter is already dead.

>>9609790
There's some subtle wit there

>>9609834
What is Westeros' tax policy anyway?

Is this a good place to try and figure out the name of sci-fi novel I read a long time ago?

>>9610046
Just ask us sweetie

>>9610065

Five or so people are chosen to be copied into hundreds of clone bodies and placed upon dozens of ships, each going to a different star. All of the clones based on one man go insane except the protagonist. On their destination planet the protagonist finds several golden towers with technological gifts from unknown aliens, including a transparent spacesuit and a small golden faster than light ship. It turns out that different aliens in starfish-shaped ships are following the first set and destroying any civilization which receives the gifts. The protagonist unwittingly uses the gift ship to return to earth which results in the starfish aliens following and destroying the solar system. He escapes with the original of one of his former crewmates and they embark on a journey to figure out why all this is happening and how it can be stopped.

I have read the entire tvtropes listing for everything I can think of from the book, from forcefield spacesuit to FTL to starfish aliens to mind uploading but it isn't on any of their lists, nor the comparable wikipedia "___in fiction" lists.

>>9610072
>Five or so people are chosen to be copied into hundreds of clone bodies and placed upon dozens of ships, each going to a different star.
That's funny, I just read a short story with a similar premise. Wang's Carpets by Greg Egan. Afraid I can't place your story though.

>>9610072
>>9610065
While I'm at it here's another one.

A group of a couple dozen children are on a ship with a robotic nursemaid. It is revealed that humanity was wiped out by unknown enemies but a small part was saved by an advanced alien race. The aliens have put these children on the ship and sent them off to exact revenge for the murder of humankind. It features technology such as a boobytrap that turns their scouts into antimatter versions of themselves and manipulating matter by "hacking" the rules underlying subatomic force carrier particles.

>>9610105
You would enjoy the "Bobiverse" books.

>>9610113
>A group of a couple dozen children are on a ship with a robotic nursemaid. It is revealed that humanity was wiped out by unknown enemies but a small part was saved by an advanced alien race. The aliens have put these children on the ship and sent them off to exact revenge for the murder of humankind.
I think this one was actually mentioned here at some point. Hmmmm

>>9610127
I usually prefer well fermented stories, but I appreciate the rec. If it shows up at my source I might take a look.

Any contemporary sci-fi or fantasy authors who do a good job mixing literary and pulp a la PKD?

Can anybody recommend something else in the vein of The Magicians trilogy? I want character-driven, almost literary fantasy, and also fantastic action sequences.

>>9610113
>a boobytrap that turns their scouts into antimatter versions of themselves
FUCK why does everyone seem to have my ideas before I did

my dude

>>9610369
kingkiller sempai

>>9606936
he's also correct

Who is the best sci-fi author of the past 20 years?

>>9609117
Every cover for The Iron Dream is awesome.

>>9610685
me

>>9610392
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWPYF6tnoy8

What are some books like Garth Nix's Keys to the Kingdom?

I read The Maker of the Universes which according to both Nix and Zelazny inspired their works and it reads like the most shit version of Keys to the Kingdom ever and ends so abruptly I ended up downloading four versions of the book to make sure I hadn't accidentally gotten an incomplete version. It's about the amazing isekai adventure of a linguistics professor in his sixties who gets his youth back by stepping through a portal.

>>9604262
>Prince of Thorns
>The series where edgy shit just happens

>>9610685


sad that it's true

>>9610750
the original post
>What are some books like Garth Nix's Keys to the Kingdom?

I read The Maker of the Universes which according to both Nix and Zelazny (a literal 66 year old ) inspired their works and it reads like the most shit version of Keys to the Kingdom ever and ends so abruptly I ended up downloading four versions of the book to make sure I hadn't accidentally gotten an incomplete version.

>>9610828
The original post is like the same as the new post except missing half of what I was going to write.

>>9610685
Wolfe isn't dead yet.

>>9610826
Some serious fucking bullshit in his books though. He may have been a biologist but he sucks balls at physics. The amount of energy it would take to move a human-sized body and then decelerate it to stillness in the span of a saccade, over and over, is astronomical.

>>9610837
Stop lying.

>>9610699
I have a really shitty cover version, which is too bad because the book itself is pretty dumb.

>>9610326
John C. Wright. Plenty of people hate him though and you might be one of them.

>>9610994
Is Wright the guy whose wikipedia picture is him sincerely tipping a fedora?

>thread is no longer sanic fast
Glad reddit left.

>>9603606

I'm writing right now and needed a break.

I should have my next collection of short stories done in the next month or two, if I get my shit together.

The first was horror, this one is scifi. Although it ended up being a lot more sentimental than actually having any interesting science.

When this is done I want to start my big fantasy novel, but the prospect of the time investment and difficulty is making me really anxious. Any you guys write and know how to stay motivated?

I just realized I haven't read something with a
really interesting type of magic since I read the Paper Magician series way too fucking long ago.

I guess the powder mage series I gave up on for the second time a few weeks ago kind of had it but I also couldn't give less of a shit about the characters or the plot

>>9606529
Children of Light by Adrian Tchaikovsky

The genetic manipulation is on spiders. Tchaikovsky loves spiders.

>>9611286
I dropped Powder Mage shortly after whatsherface turned out to be apart of some age old race trying to resurrect the god or whatever

>>9611216
>thanks for reading my blog

>>9611295
>tfw you will never take a thicc beetle-kin's virgin

This was pretty good. I suspect it might be the next big "Martian" style thing that will get non-SFF market penetration.

>>9611354
hit post too soon. Basically it's about a cyborg that just wants to be a NEET after it's control module fails. At the end it does a runner on the people who "saved" it because they're all "you can be anything you want now!" but all it wants to do is watch telenovelas.

>>9611354
Putting it on my to read pile.

>>9611216
I drop a piece of writing if I lose interest in it. Sometimes I'll see if I can salvage it, but if I stop giving a fuck about it midway through then the reader will surely hate it so why bother. As far as staying motivated all I need to do is stick to a schedule. If I skip a day or so of writing I'll begin to become disinterested.

>>9611378
It's a quick read, only about 100 pages or so on my Kindle.

>>9611344
You reading his Echoes of the Fall series, by any chance?
I really want to comment on the second novel with someone else.

>>9611447
Naw. That golden and (w/e colour) series put me off him.

>>9611476
But, that's the series with the thicc betlee-kin? What?

Why did it put you off? Any particular reason or just his style?

>>9611494
Yes it's the same series, I finish what I start. I would still fug the thicc beetle in black and gold.
Can't remember what specifically, bunch of stuff put together. I think me being a kissless virgin and the halfbreed-kin getting cucked by that moth pissed me off. I was shopping around sampling Russian authors at the time.
Have to check my notes as to why I disliked the series

Just finished pic related after seeing like 2 threads about it in the catalog and some discussions here, and I truly do not understand why is this so highly rated ?

The world and characters seems quite alright and interesting from the beginning and then that blast occurs and the whole book slowly goes to shit.

This truly feels like a bunch of interesting and original ideas which the author couldn't figure how to connect and make sense of. And instead of exploring and developing the solid foundations laid at the beginning he chose the "mind-fuck" angle. I also see that it was released in 1969, so I'm not really sure if even in terms of the period raising uncertainties about the nature reality was really that novel.

Do you guys have a hard time with visualizing? Last night I went to see that new King Arthur movie, and it opens with this over-the-top epic fantasy sequence where gigantic war elephants are smashing stone bridges and hundreds are falling to their deaths. All I could think is, "I've read things similar to this, or even more grandiose in scope, and they've looked so much worse." I think I have a hard time with visualizing in general. When I read I do get mental images, but they're rather abstract, like markers for the things mentioned. This is why when authors start describing the details of a building, or anything that's too complex, I totally lose myself. I have to read it over, and over, and over to get it.
So I want to know, am I just a pleb that hasn't watched enough movies or dabbled enough in art to visualize things in a better way? Or is it just that my brain works differently and there's nothing I can do to change it? Do any of you suffer from this?

>>9611560
I could imagine my favourite character striding into my favourite anime if I wanted to.

>>9611560
*
You probably focus way too much on trying to visualise though, just let it come.

>>9611560
I think you could try listening to an audiobook and seeing if that frees you to visualize what the speaker is describing. But don't worry too much about missing out because most of those details are inconsequential fluff.

>>9611555
I've read a few of his novels. Ubik's merit seems overstated, as you suggest. It's a middling PKD book of his strongest period, the 1960's, when he wrote much better books like Dr Bloodmoney and Martian Time-Slip that are now lesser known. I think Ubik is more famous because it's emblematic of the author's preoccupation with dubious realities and decay.

>>9611560
My visualisation improved when I made an effort with texts. If I don't now the meaning of a word, I look it up. One of my shortcomings was/is trees and landscape features. Some authors love talking about alders, cypress, elms, beeches. I had to school myself a little on these. I wonder if this is damning of the modern 'comprehensive' education when I can't even identify and picture commonplace trees, but that's another topic. Anyway, these things can be improved. It helps to read more baroque and descriptive authors and to be a more 'active' reader.

>>9611612
Oh, don't worry, you're not alone in this respect. I couldn't recognize a single tree by name apart from "pine" when I started reading. When you start to read authors that name real world things it's painful to acknowledge how little you know. You can always tell apart plebs from authors that are well-read on the Middle-Ages. Martin's a pretty good example out of the more popular ones; he always mentions specific fabrics, materials, foods, techniques, etc., by name.
>I wonder if this is damning of the modern 'comprehensive' education when I can't even identify and picture commonplace trees
I think it is, and it's only getting worse. I was showing my cousin the other day a cooking video, and she had no idea what most of the ingredients and utensils mentioned were, not to mention the verbs that you don't frequently see outside of cooking shows/books. And she's not a preteen, she's a grown woman. I've even heard from a friend that's a teacher that his kids can't identify bugs by name. Shit's getting sad.

>>9611560
i think you're thinking about it too much. just go with the mental image you have, stop stressing out about it being perfect.

by the way, what'd you think of king arthur? i absolutely loved it but i understand why people think it's a bad movie. the cgi fights and choppy editing were a bit too much but goddamn there were some cool moments.

>>9609392
>>Why do you insist that the human genetic code is "sacred" or "taboo"?

That's an necessity to avoid auto-destruction. We, as a species, are bound to have a drive to survive - that's an evolutionary imperative without which we wouldn't be here today. This drive was translated in law texts as a prohibition to kill, in other words a prohibition to destroy a subpart of the species.

The fear of genetic engineering, on the other hand, is two fold. First is the simple fear of its unknown consequences. Second is the fear of a discontinuity in the evolution of the species.
As a species, we have evolved like any other species, and we are not what we used to be a few hundred thousands of years ago. Yet, we can still follow the thread that lead us to where we are today, because the changes that our species has experienced were gradual, small enough that we could not pinpoint where each change has happened. This is continuity, this is what allows us to say that we come from such or such. Genetic engineering threatens to create a sharp change, one that would allow us to say that the next human is too different from the previous one to be able to say that they are the same species. This would be, by some definition, the end of the human species and the beginning of something else

>>9609834
What is the tax meme though

>>9611636
GRRM criticized LotR for not going in depth about Aragorn's rulership and asked what his Tax policy would be at one point.

>>9611636
>Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

>>9611643
This is strikes me as being equivalent to the middle school english teacher asking "Now children, what did the curtains being blue MEAN?".

>>9611636
>>9611639
>>9611643
>>9611649
full interview here
http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/george-r-r-martin-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140423

>>9611639
>>9611643
>>9611653
It's clear that he's being facetious about the tax policy. Although, I don't understand why he would be so autistic over a series that's built on myth.
This is the problem with Martin. There's a part of him that grasps complexity and is well-educated on medieval history. And there's that other part that got indoctrinated by feminism and postmodernism, and he can't help finding flaws when he's looking at things through those broken lenses. It's clear that if you start analyzing Tolkien's work in such a way it looks foolish - except that it was never intended to be seen this way. You can also see where this feminist bullshit sunk into ASoIaF. There are some aspects that are done super well, including how women back then were treated and certain psychological aspects seen under Cersei and Cat; but then he goes full-retard and starts making a ton of women tomboys and badass warriors. The Sandsnakes are as cringe-worthy in the books as they are in the show, and they're a direct result of this kind of poison (as his completely negative portrayal of religion and the ruling class).

>>9611560
I'm exactly the same. For me it is a matter of working memory. As a scientist I'm very good at holding math related quantities in my mind, I can do euclidian divisions up to many decimals, but when I read by the end of a paragraph I'll have forgotten a name written at the beginning, and descriptive passages are hell.

Basically your mind isn't good at holding short-term information in order to build an image in your head. I'm exactly the same. The good thing is that it can be trained. Working memory can be trained, unfortunately I don't think specific visualization related exercises exist, so if you choose to do some training it will have a poor carry-over over your reading.

Or you can simply keep on reading while making at least a partial effort in visualizing things and this will train your mind over time. As long as you make the slightest effort. If you're in a resigned state of mind, you're just on the path to degeneration.

>>9611670
The trick to it is to just slow the fuck down. Read it slower, don't move on until you've got a clear picture in your head.

>>9611670
Hmm, I don't think I mean it in that way necessarily. Like, for example, let's say a person is describing some quarter in a dwarf city, talking about the clang of smithies and the acrid smoke that fills the halls and burns the eyes. It's not that I forget that information. I remember it, and it can even feel comfy. But I can't see it in my mind's-eye with as much clarity as I could in a movie. Same goes for fabrics and sculptures, things that are meant to be beautiful. My mind registers "this is supposed to be pretty" but I'm not seeing anything pretty myself.

The second part is a matter of scale. If an author goes, there's ten people, twenty people, a hundred, a thousand - I can deal. But when we start going in the tens and hundreds of thousands, I can no longer picture that. I don't even have any experience to use as a reference. The same goes with height. I live in a small town (in East Europe at that), and even capitals in Europe rarely have skyscrapers. So when these guys start describing towers and walls that reach hundreds of feet in the air I'm just like... okay. Usually, no matter how imaginative and generous I am in my imagination, it's always on a way smaller scale than they mean for it to be (going by faithful concept art).

But, yeah, when they start giving architectural details I get completely lost. Maybe it's because I have no experience with architecture, and because of that it's difficult to visualize a building (or a ship in sci-fi) the way they want me to see it. 95% of the time, the ships I see look completely different from what they're describing, both in shape and size.

>>9611023
Yes. I'd recommend not looking too much into him personally if you want to maximize your chance of enjoying what he writes.

>>9611023
What's wrong with tipping a fedora? I get it if it's some teenage r/r/atheism tier faggot, but this is a grown man that's nearly in his sixties. What's the issue?

>>9611555
>This truly feels like a bunch of interesting and original ideas which the author couldn't figure how to connect and make sense of. And instead of exploring and developing the solid foundations laid at the beginning he chose the "mind-fuck" angle.
A lot PKD novels are like this, because they were all basically unedited first drafts. The exception is The Man in the High Castle, and it shows.

I agree that Ubik is very overrated. The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch has similar themes and is far and away the better novel.

>>9611555
Ubik is a meme. One of Dick's biggest memes. It epitomizes his work in a bad way. All of the worst things that are 100% are dick can be found in Ubik. It's pulpy Twilight Zone-tier 'and then the sleeping man woke up in another person's dream and then he woke up and was back in that guy's dream and then Aliens invade and then a side character wakes up and finds out he's Abraham Lincoln' weirdness for its own sake that doesn't really convey anything beyond schizophrenia.

Like the other anon said 'The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch' is Ubik but better and 'The Man in the High Castle' is probably his most coherent work. I'm also fond of '"Flow My Tears," The Policeman Said' but I don't know exactly why.

>>9611679
Aside from the ridiculous clothing he doesn't seem to bad. He's just taken LARPing as G.K. Chesterton to the next level.

>>9611685
Even then it just looks odd. Have you seen the picture?

>>9611691
Just now. I don't even think it's the fedora. He seems like a weird guy in general. He looks like a Mormon in those older pictures.

>>9611691
I basically support the G.K. Chesterton act but without knowing anything about someone I'd never use it as a selling point.

>>9611695
He is kind of a weirdo, but so are a lot of SF authors. Plenty of people get mad about something he wrote and then refuse to read his fiction, and they're missing out IMO. I don't want that to be you if you're the guy looking for "elevated pulp" or however you put it.

>>9611700
Nah, I'm a random dude. Just broke into the conversation for no reason.

>>9611700
I'm not that anon, would you consider his work to be 'elevated pulp'? Or really of any kind of remarkable quality at all? The premise behind his stuff sounds okay but I'm skeptical of all new authors.

>>9611619
After some dedication I'm better with the more distinct trees: fern, pine, conifer, willow, birch. Everything else tends to look like a sycamore or oak in my mind's eye. The names of trees sound pleasant and are picturesque, and when I appreciate how writers can lean on them for mood and setting I went to the tree charts.

>>9611714
In the beginning I wished so much for a comprehensive book on this sort of stuff. Literally a what-is picture book for shut-in fantasy readers that goes through all the different types of trees, flowers, fabrics, stones, etc., giving you only the essential information you need to understand it from a story and literary point of view.

>>9611719
Yes, minerals and gem stones another part of the language of fantasy literature. I already knew many of them: amethyst, sapphire, emerald, onyx, lapis lazuli. I find they stick in the mind's eye better than trees and flowers. Chalcedony is popular, probably because the word sounds good.

My flower knowledge is abysmal and it's compounded by every flower seeming to have its own myth, superstition, or hidden relevance. Let's say the protag in a fantasy book walks through a meadow of asphodel. This can only be appreciated when you know it's morbid gray appearance, and association with the Greek underworld. This is a more obvious case, but there are many flowers with more hidden histories that the more patrician writers like to deploy.

>tfw can't find Thune's Vision and it's supposed to be the greatest anthology ever

>>9611807
>This can only be appreciated when you know it's morbid gray appearance, and association with the Greek underworld
FUCK. I didn't even know that. Do you have more stuff like this to share, if you've got the time? Or any recommended reads? I only know Wikipedia...

>>9611853
I just use wikipedia and google image search. But this kind of thing (plants, trees, minerals) will be in library reference books which are probably very cheap in old hardback. It's not like this knowledge dates. So it's just something to look out for at second hand sales. With Greekaboos like Gene Wolfe, a little book of Greek myths is useful like Edith Hamilton's Greek mythology, which reads like little wikipedia summaries of the key myths, and the wood-cut illustrations are cool. There is something in the starting with the Greeks meme when it comes to appreciating Wolfe.

>>9611883
>There is something in the starting with the Greeks meme when it comes to appreciating EVERY SINGLE WRITER WORTH READING.
ftfy

>>9603606
>that flowchart
what the fuck is wrong with you faggots

>>9611900
Nobody actually uses those. Read Gene Wolfe.

>>9611904
I'm actually reading shadow of the torturer right now, I like it. Very reminiscent of Dunsay.

>>9611912
If you think you're enjoying yourself now your second reading will blow you away. Book of the New Sun is probably the most tightly constructed /sffg/ epic of all time. Wolfe doesn't waste a page on anything that isn't important, every word you read matters, but it often is obvious until much later.

Bought Hard To Be a God yesterday, what am I in for and am I better off starting with the movie or the book, which helps make things easier to understand also good choice for my first Strutgatsky book? I was tempted to get Roadside Picnic but I've seen Stalker quite a few times. I can save it for later in the year.

>>9611935
You needn't worry, the majority of classics are as easy to read as Brandon Sanderson. It's the way that they select and choose their words that is more subtle.

>>9611935
Good book. The first few pages are just a framing narrative that isn't very representative of the whole book. The Strugatskys wanted to write a book that mixed science fiction with The Three Muskateers. Swashbuckling spies from outer space in a feudal planet. It's as good as Roadside Picnic IMO, in the way it mixes fun genre stuff with observations.

>>9609174
Sparta did nothing wrong and Athenian apologists should be impaled

>>9611961
This. Athens was culturally liberal, but they were oppressors of such cruelty that their own fucking allies called on the Persians for help and dreamed of the day they would go back under Persian rule. It's very easy to point to statues and philosophy, and completely disregard the tens of thousands of lives that were destroyed by Athenian paranoia and greed.

>>9611975
Imagine what the world would be like today if Sparta killed all Athenian men and sold their women and children like the Athenians did to mytilene

>>9611961
>>9611975
>>9609174
As a wealthy Greek I would have preferred living in one of the Greek cities on the Ionian/Anatolian coast under Persian rule (and protection), rather than live under Athens or Sparta. As I see it, the Greeks have a knack for internal war and killing - a hotheaded people.

Sea raiders, brigands, foreign armies? Just let Persia take care of them and chill out at the gymnasium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDNwdEQLfg4
It still hurts mummy pls hug me mummy

>>9611679
I just saw he's part of the Rabid Puppies thing and ruined it for myself. Like, for fuck's sake, I love pulp. My favorite fantasy of all time is Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. But if people don't like your shit as much, they don't like it as much. Suck it up and move on.

I also can't help getting the impression that most of them are idiots, given that they apparently think having some kind of meaning in your work is a new thing that sci-fi and fantasy didn't do until recently and is ruining it for them.

>>9612004
t. Pausanius
Sparta's constitution would have endured forever if it were actually observed during wartime

>>9612004
>rather than live under... Sparta
Nobody lived under Spartan rule, though. There's the subjugation of the helots that I can't defend; but apart from that population they saw necessary to maintain their military lifestyle, the Spartans ensured the freedom and rights of all their allies. There's a reason they were seen as the leaders of the free Hellenes, when it could be argued that states like Corinth were far more powerful given their wealth and navy. But it was the Spartans who were seen as honorable, dependable, and far more capable politically than most of these brain-dead historians stuck in 19th century Anglo propaganda give them credit for.
>An old man wandering around the Olympic Games looking for a seat was jeered at by the crowd until he reached the seats of the Spartans, whereupon every Spartan younger than him, and some that were older, stood up and offered him their seat. The crowd applauded and the old man turned to them with a sigh, saying "All Greeks know what is right, but only the Spartans do it."
It's simply amazing to me how we still have """historians""" who think Athenians were the Good Guys and the smarter everything... even though they lost the war, LARGELY due to their bad policies and democratic system that broke under pressure. Don't get me wrong, I still love Athens.

>>9612030
I've been vaguely aware of this puppies thing for a long time now but I don't think I'm close to understanding it. Half of the stuff I read seems to suggest it's a reaction to elitism by honest genre-plebs and the other half almost seems to be the opposite saying that it's about opposing awards being given to hacky garbage in the name of progressive politics. Either way science-fiction awards seem to be completely shit, more than they always were somehow.

>>9612084
You know that the Hugo's have gone to shit when Vox Day nominates this.

>>9612100
And then the Puppies voted for this piece of shit this year.

>>9612084
The issue is that the same people are claiming it's both. Basically, "I want pulpy adventure stories, not hacky political messages," as if it's impossible for a story to be neither of those things. It doesn't help that they refused to remove people from their slates who EXPLICITLY asked to be removed, and that they seem to not know shit about the history of sci-fi or fantasy because they think having any kind of message is new and threatens their stories of lasers, unicorns, and explosions.

Fortunately, they seem to have less of an effect each year.

>>9612100
>Vox Day
Are that guy's books any good? I've never found them on bookzz so I can't read them. I saw him on a Molyneux show once and he struck me as arrogant and pompous.

>>9612115
>I saw him on a Molyneux show once and he struck me as arrogant and pompous.
Consider just how arrogant and pompous he'd have to be to seem that way next to Molyneux.

>>9612035
democracy = good therefore Athens = good and Sparta = evil
this is contempory history 101

>>9612115
Some uploaded them all to mobilism. In internet piracy, all books are equally available.

>>9612131
*someone

>>9612131
All of them? I know his nonfiction is up on places, but I don't care about that. I know he was babbling about story that has to do with whether or not elves have souls, and that sounded interesting.

>>9612136
It has fucking everything.

Involved in Hugo's = instant upload everywhere (except for Chuck Tingle's stuff, amusingly.)

The only thing I haven't been able to find yet is some stuff by Ada Palmer from her history textbooks (there is one request on a private torrent site for one of them).

>>9612114
I don't see how John C. Wright ties into this. From what little I know of his work he doesn't seem to fit into this niche at all. 'The Golden Age' sounds like virtually the complete opposite of 'Space Raptor Butt Invasion'.

>>9612136
*
Also remember if a link is down on mobilism mostly you can just get it by PMing the user or download it via IRC (detailed instructions on the stickied thread on /lit/).

IRC seems to use releases uploaded from mobilism.

>>9612152
Oh, I misread. They just nominated him for some shit one year. Maybe I'll check out his work after all.

>>9612155
Well, thanks for reminding me about mobilism. I haven't used it in a long ass time, because I got so used to bookzz. And I was looking for this new Horus Heresy release for since this weekend, and I just found it here. God bless you, anon.

>>9612156
A nomination doesn't seem to count for much from these people. They even got Marc Aramini nominated. I wonder how he feels about that.

>>9612115
The two Throne of Bones books he's released are legitimately good, and the "do elves have souls" thing was pretty clever if a tad tedious (not unlike the Aquinas on which it is obviously based).

>>9612160
You might as well get a myanonamouse account while you are at it.
MAM is a private tracker so it's greatly regulated.

There are small variations in what mobilism, MAM, bib and the IRC offer in terms of books, so the more sources the better for getting books as soon as they get released. And get your hands on whatever library cards are around you for those sweet overdrive books (you can remove all the DRM from it with apprentice Alf's tools keeping them forever)

Should I read The Left Hand of Darkness or Foundation next? Or should I hop over to fantasy for a bit?

>>9611709
The Golden Age isn't really that pulpy, but a lot of his other stories are. Wright has an incredibly extensive knowledge and strong command of classic SF tropes, and his work is usually filled with allusions, often rather subtle. He's amazing conceptually, good at writing action in the van Vogt style, and is particularly strong at building distinct characters in a way that too many working SF authors just can't or won't do.

His main weaknesses are a tendency to be longwinded that's aggravated by the fact that he's currently edited by literal amateurs, more than a touch of sentimentalism, and what I increasingly think is a deliberate refusal to write interesting female characters--at this point he should just go full Tolkien and stop trying altogether.

>>9612172
>get a myanonamouse account
I will, anon. Thanks again.

>>9611675
You lack an imagination. Thank your parents for making you miss out an essential part of your childhood.(It all makes sense when these brainlets say that they didn't understand or like certain books, when these books required a rich imagination.)
What you need to do is daydream. Just take 15 or 10 minutes out of your day and imagine past events in a different way. Make a story in your head that progressive to something fantastical.

You say you live in Europe, imagine you are walking down a cobblestone / shale strewn path in the woods. When you reach a bend, a chav in an Adidas encased car blocks your path. But you notice something funny, the car is about 6 inches off the ground, and the wheel looks like legs. He tells you to get in the car or he will glass and shag your mum. You get in, and all those super tall trees turn into buildings, that are the threes stacked onto themselves four times. Adventure ensues.

I never saw a skyscraper in real life but have no problem imagining them, and me at the base looking up at them. When it comes to sci-fi imagery is about piecemealing a bunch of shit. If you ever used Gimp (or photoshoop) it would help.
You have a background that the author laid, you have your characters in w/e clothing they are using, you then layer on elements as needed. Building, vehicles, fauna, flora, etc.

It helps you if you watch a bunch of shit (maybe play a few video games/ watch a compilation of someone playing), watch documentaries, watch science programs, watch construction videos, watch animal videos. Fill your head with stock images you can use at a later date.

Pic related is what hundred of thousands would look like, x10. Just imagine the pic seamlessly side by side 10 times.

>>9610072
>transparent spacesuit
So everyone'd see your naked body? THAT'S KINDA HOT

I'm reading Dune for the first time and I'm about a third of the way through I think. The doctor just betrayed everyone. I really enjoy the world building and detail put into everything, and while the book isn't much focused on developing anyone beyond a one dimensional character I still enjoy them.

I find it somewhat strange though, that it seems like every part of the book is a shoehorn to move the plot forward and anything that isn't is foreshadowing on top of foreshadowing. I know it's building up toward Paul becoming god emperor or whatever, but is the ENTIRE book like this? Is the pay of to hundreds of pages of build up worth it, or is it going to be like The Trial where fucking nothing is the result?

Have there been any really good starts to new series that started this year?

>>9611923
Why do I feel that you're the anon that admitted he doesn't read and memes people books with his poetically waxing shills?

>>9612312
You're reading it for the wrong reasons

>>9612312
Someone post the dune spurdo

Are there any epic fantasy series that meet the following criteria?

>currently ongoing
>at least some interesting female characters
>doesn't over-explain its magic a la Sanderson
>can be gritty and dark (doesn't have to be full-on grimdark or GRI, but I don't mind if it is)

Trying to find something to read and discuss with a friend, and an ongoing series seems like a good idea because we like to theorize and discuss possible future events.

>>9612351
Lightbringer series
Shadow of what was lost

any good bookaroos for tfw when no gf?

>>9612336
Could you help give me a frame of reference as to why I should be reading it. I mean it's a really enjoyable page turner.

>>9612360
>tfw when no gf?
>that feel when when no girlfriend
I believe you guys now. You said we were inundated with reddit, non-readers, and underage. I didn't believe. I now have proof.

>>9612399
w-wrong on all three
I just wanted the books

>>9612163
In a just world brilliance would be known and appreciated. The ends justifies the means. People should know - and whether for the wrong reasons or not, justice was served. Publishing the unpublishable for the sake of those in the darkness will never make money, but it is only right that at least for a second all those insignificant fools in SF should struggle with how to pronounce my name, and if they read it, know the Truth (tm).

>>9612360
What does that even mean? A book where women die? A book that simulates a relationship? A book without women? Literally WHAT.

>>9612434
a book I can lose myself in and live vicariously through someone else with a gf or someone who I can relate to in the fact they are too scared to have a gf

>>9612422
I learned a lot about the fanbase from the blind vitriol. They would insult me, then some term they used would trigger someone else in the PC brigade and they would turn on each other. Mental illness is rampant in our weak and effete culture. Fans like that aren't worth having.

>>9612442
Why can't you just watch an anime? This is exactly what they're for.

>>9612448
anime does nothing for me, they aren't human faces or human emotions, the voice actors sound like yapping dogs, I just don't find any joy in it I can't immerse myself in it
in reading I can conjure up my own picture of what is happening, even though it isn't really a picture and its more just gaining meaning from the words

>>9612467
Try Gossip Girl.

>>9612470
shant

>>9611935
There's one pretty funny line I recall when you just know some editor from the Communist Party came along and said, hey you gotta say something nice about communism. You'll know it when you see it.

>>9612482
I'm sorry but you're hopeless. Just go read something bleak like Berserk or Blood Meridian and stop being a faggot.

How do we remove fake geek chic fantasy fans from the fantasy medium who only like certain series because they are trendy? Let's make fantasy great again. Same goes for science fiction, we need to make it more dense and slow paced like it used to be.

>>9612442
Any light novel. Japs are experts at that.

>>9612640
Too much spooks pham.

>>9611631
>This drive was translated in law texts as a prohibition to kill, in other words a prohibition to destroy a subpart of the species.
Keep in mind this is chairman yang we are talking about. He decided things such as basic evolutionary imperatives are "inefficient" in his society, and the needs of the society come before those of the individual. This is the man that proposed recycling the elderly because they are no longer useful workers. He's portrayed as to be completely off his rocker, but with a completely amoral yet efficient ideology.

>>9612640
>we need to make it more dense and slow paced like it used to be.
Yeah, man, Stainless Steel Rat, A Princess of Mars, and Bill the Galactic Hero were hard as hell to read and only TRUE GEEKS read them. Same with Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, Conan, and the Chronicles of Amber on the fantasy side of things.

Or, wait, sci-fi and fantasy have had both literary behemoths and and lighthearted, easygoing pulpy adventures from pretty much the beginning, and you don't know shit.

>>9603714
That's a weird way of spelling Caine's Law

>>9610113
I read that one. Cover was a weird picture of people standing on hugely-long poles suspended in space or something.

>>9612180
I've read both. The Left Hand of Darkness was very interesting, and Foundation (the whole series) was amazing. So I suggest Foundation first.

>>9603743
>Sanderson should stop writing.

Fixed that for ya, my dude.

>>9612351
Unironically ASoIaF.

>>9603644
Moorcock was the worst thing that happened to the Genre

>>9612312
Anyone?

>>9613197
Thanks. I love Le Guin but had been meaning to check out Asimov too.
>>9613498
Already both caught up on it. Was hoping for something similar but better.

>>9612315
Too Like the Lightning

>>9613892
>>9613892
>>9613892
New bread