/lit/ - Literature

>>9427215
Actually I think you'll find he's NO JOKE

This is a board for literature. The man in your post is a professor of psychology. Fuck off.

>>9427215
He's not a marxist like us.

He doesn't indulge my degenerate fantasies.

spends too much time caring about inane things like fourth wave feminism and being anti-politically correct

Ben Stiller already thoroughly B him TFO. Psychology is a pseudoscience, and his self-help bs only appeals to alt-right faggots.

>>9427215
it took him 10 years to write "maps of meaning" and its a piece of crap incoherent amalgamation of everything hes read

I havent read it but you know im right

>>9427413
This.
I haven't read it either but you are probably right.

>>9427215
Uses too many anecdotes, literary comparisons,
and pigeon holes his opposition. It always sounds like he's trying to be convincing rather than objective.

>>9427215

1: Sounds like Kermit
2: Spends his time on bullshit identity politics despite not only being a real, bona fide +25 adult, but also a supposed intellectual
3: Publicly admits to having affiliations to 4chan
4: Pushes glorified self-help for internet nazis

>>9427502
>Sounds like Kermit
finally

>>9427502
>3: Publicly admits to having affiliations to 4chan
Source?

>>9427249
how do I make my mom stop being so merciful with me

>>9427502
>anyone i dont like is a nazi

I do enjoy his lectures, and i think he has a quite sophisticated interpretation of Nietzsche and existentialism.

BUT, i think hes a complete sophist when it comes mythology. He uses convient interpretations and largely rips off Joseph Campbell

>taking jung seriously

He isn't.

He's retarded.

>>9427225
Who has written a book and talks of literature a bunch? You fuck off.

>>9427628
dear god

>>9427628
This has got to be fake.

>>9427660

see for yourself

https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/405200126236311554

>>9427628
YIKES

>>9427628
Damn...

>>9427555
Shoot her.

>>9427628
>(as Godel proved)

>>9427493
Thats the idea behind education. You cant just tell people a fact and expect them to automatically believe and understand why its true. 50% of education is communication.

>>9427502
1. This literally makes him a joke
2. All he did was say C-16 restrains freedom of speech, and the SJW crowd went apeshit.
3. Citation needed
4. All philosophy is glorified self-help.

Get your yourself together,bucko.

>>9427502

>1: Sounds like Kermit

Honestly, what is the significance of frogs? Shit is uncanny.

>>9427734
OWBVIously

>>9427695
please give me a sincere answer

>>9427753
Now that you know your mother's unconditional love is toxic don't take it so seriously. Go out into the world and try living faggot.

>>9427753
>sincerity

You must be new here

>>9427628
Wait till he hears about Gödel's ontological argument.

>>9427215
can't be bothered to listen to him even casually, he constantly sounds like he's fraying at the seams

didn't he start crying while reading a speech in front of the camera

You'd be a joke to just disregard him. When he talks about existential psychology, clinical practice, personality, or the psychological underpinnings of politics he's very insightful.

The archetypal stuff is somewhat inaccessible, like any psychological framework. If he made some videos on the justification for the reality of that stuff, he'd do himself a huge service in being taken seriously. It's easy to brush off the archetypes and see him as pulling stuff out of his ass. That said, when he makes the same statements using psychoanalytic or neurological language, he seems pretty spot on. It's a matter of taste, I guess.

He's also an important voice for young adults who have been told by teachers, professors, and pop culture that having responsibility is a bad thing. He opposes happiness(in the sense of sustained pleasure) as the end goal in life, which is the part of him that is likely to get people worked up. If you want to mature and adapt into adulthood, he's a valuable source of information. I think that's one of the reasons for his popularity. Nobody else is telling anybody how to be a grown up. They're being told how to be a degenerate child, which will ruin your life in the long run.

>>9427740
NO JOKE
you should read the gulag archipelago

>>9427880
People like >>9427502 are completely fucking clueless to Peterson's research in helping disadvantaged persons and minorities when they accuse him of being alt-right or some bullshit.

>>9427555
You don't. I'm 26 and my mom still tries being overprotective.
Move out of the house, sustain yourself, don't rely on her, try to limit communication with her, if she calls you 20 times a day asking if you've eaten. Just say "Mom I'm busy right now, talk to you later" or something.
You can also try telling her straight that she's being overprotective and you don't like it.

>>9427880
This desu.
I'll my two cents saying that he's actually quite interesting, it won't do you any harm listening to some of his lectures and no one forces you to agree with him 100%, of course.

>>9427880
mate, I agree with pretty much everything you covered there, but how can you take him seriously when he does this >>9427628 ?

>>9427264
I thought this too, after hearing that rather painful 2+ hour long 'discussion'

Made Peterson seem like a bit of a goof desu. Here's a good excerpt:

https://youtu.be/dOOQ1ZCeMY4

He repeats himself a bit too often for my tastes. I've heard him talk about sacks of wet salt in several different videos. Also,read the the gulag arch.

>>9427519
>>9427739

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4ftiL4c_CA

>>9427880

>He's also an important voice for young adults who have been told by teachers, professors, and pop culture that having responsibility is a bad thing.

wat.

Could you name a few examples of young people being told responsibility is bad?

>>9427215
I've never read or watched him, but I can tell from the kind of people who like him that he's a retard.
you know I'm right

>>9427968
It's like a Chinese fingertrap, if you want a relationship with her but not an overbearing one, you have to be willing to take the lead and schedule time to catch up. Then the rest of the time you can be busy without any guilt.

>>9428111
More like they get an ideology pushed on them that encourages playing the victim over taking responsibility.

>>9428150
>it's another "society in its entirety is like those dumb feminists I've seen on tumblr" episode

>>9427249
this is true

>>9427421
>>9427413
you faggots are so fucking wrong it's hilarious nice bait
i didn't even know it was a book just thought it was a youtube video

>>9427995
Every person who has ever existed says dumb shit, it's just worse now because Twitter and normiebook exist to document it

>>9428527

when that dumb shit is a foundation for a whole dumb belief system he tries to peddle it's worth bringing up

>>9427215
>Religious truth is separate from scientific truth

>Truth I choose because it makes me feel good is different from truth I arrive at through time-testing it's falsifiability.

>>9428658
Perhaps I misunderstand your meaning, but I understand JP to be saying that what we conceive of as true is ultimately only sufficiently true in order to get to the next level of truth. It is only on a Darwinian timeline that final truth can be arrived at, rather than pure sensory chaos.

If you're implying religious truth is the truth that makes you feel good for the moment, I take it that JP would try and say it is the reverse of that.

>>9427628
Empiricists BTFO
How will reality ever recover?

>>9427995
Have you listen to/read his shit? He doesn't believe in God as in a supernatural sky-daddy being, he "believes" in it as in an archetype, a "something" in the collective subconcious of the humanity.

>>9428159
But we weren't talking about society in its entirety... Many young adults are indoctrinated with this bullshit at many universities, and even some high schools. It's not a bad thing for them to hear something else. What is strange is that some of the university administrations dr Peterson has dealt with acts very defensive and threatened, but he's not threatening at all. He simply disagrees with them. Clearly these kids aren't normally allowed to hear dissenting voices.

>>9428554
He doesn't believe in God in that sense.

God for Peterson means either God the Father as the archetype of The Wise King or the the highest value in a value system (which for him is truth).

>>9428853
>He doesn't believe in God as in a supernatural sky-daddy being

He keeps dodging this question.

>>9428878
Okay, how bout this: is love, anger, pain, boredom, bravery, honor etc etc real? In a sense they are, and in a sense they aren't. They are real to those who believe in them. Makes sense?

>>9428881
Not really. If you say you are angry, in pain, happy, etc.. I instantly know what you mean. I don't know what you mean when you say you think god is real.

>>9427253
I mean censorship has been pretty relevant in literature for quite a while

>>9427215
I think his response to his funding proposal being rejected was a joke. He throws a fit and tosses the toy out of the pram, amazed that fir the first time in 20 years he's been rejected. The Rebel gets involved and claims that muh guvermint is shutting him down and muh free speech. Then the fucking public funds him.

I've dealt with the same grant-giving organization and written proposals that have been both accepted and rejected (as a grad student). There is no government involvement in the approving or rejecting of the proposal. The government supplies the money and sets research aims. It's university professors that do the deciding. And no fucking wonder Jesus Peterson got rejected this time around... you grab the spotlight and spend six months calling your colleagues assholes and generally make yourself a gadfly, and yeah... the funding proposals are going to get rejected.

I've listened to Peterson's lectures for five or six years and I like a lot of his ideas, but he's gone from slightly eccentric to tinfoil-hat mad in the past year, to a disappointing disingenuousness over the SSHRCC funding.

Everyone else in the Canadian university gets rejected more often than accepted. And each of them has to come to the same point of acceptance: "Fuck 'em. I'll do it again next year."

Why can't we talk about John Milbank anymore?

>>9428885
not same anon, however he moved on from feelings to concepts. Bravery honor. Belief in god is sort of like the ultimate concept.

>>9428885
Fair point. I feel the same as an atheist(insert le tip fedora meme), every person seems to be have his own image of god in his head, so when I hear someone saying he feels god's love or something it's hard for me to related. Doesn't change the fact that for the person speaking that is real.

>>9428878
What a spooked little pussy he is. No one can take this seriously.

>>9428894
Disagree. We all know(maybe except women) what it means when you say somebody is brave or honorable. Not the same with gods.

>>9428890
>you grab the spotlight and spend six months calling your colleagues assholes and generally make yourself a gadfly, and yeah... the funding proposals are going to get rejected.
So it was rejected for personal reasons, it wasn't a equististand decision? And those personal reasons come from political differences Peterson has with his colleagues? How is that not a political issue?

>>9428878
From what I've heard him say he seems at most agnostic. He regards the problem of evil as being a pretty good refutation of God.

Although all of this is rather absurd to speculate about when it's obvious he doesn't believe in God.

If he does believe in God, why did he write a book that explains religion in a secular way? Why does he think there's a hidden "real meaning" to religion that replaces our understanding of It?

He also says in that same thread, I think, that he doesn't go to mass because the priests don't understand scripture.

>>9428903
Well if someone told you they're a trigender demisexual wolfkin trapped inside a human body, you couldn't relate to that either, but to them it would be real.

>>9428918
Doesn't he see religious texts as symbolic interpretations of personal meaning like Spinoza, Nietzsche, or Jung?

>>9428904
Knowing how the committee works and having worked with people that served on it previously, I expect that it was far more personal than political. Peterson must write a solid proposal that is either free of political bias or still fits within SSHRCC's parameters for acceptable research. Academics are often petty people that easily hold grudges and harbour resentments. Some may disagree with Peterson's ideas or politics or tubthumping, but I expect that his popularity is resented. He's also said nasty things about the people around him (damn neomarxists!). Act like an asshole for your principles and that will breed resentment.

Giving him credit (and taking him at his word on this), he did stress that the lack of funding will mean that his RAs will be out of work and that he takes nothing from it personally.

Where I object and think he's sold his soul is in his being complicit and endorsing the bullshit story that Ezra fucking Levant spun about hte government silencing free speech. Peterson knows that that's bullshit but went along with it anyway. That's why, to my reading, he's a joke.

>>9428903
I would say the more complex the idea the more error prone it inherently is going to be.

Pain is simple. Lust is simple. Honor is slightly more complex. Gods slightly more so. God exponentially more so. etc.

What is viewed as honor or bravery does change and is reasonably open to interpretation, when compared to pain.

It's because he's sincere and is coincidentally right about everything

>>9428885
but you would understand if i said a book/music/etc. gave me a religious experience

Because I'm a Marxist tranny from leftypol and he doesn't indulge my degenerate fantasies.

>>9427502
>>9427533
Source?

A lot of these threads on 4chan can have huge potential or go tits up and suddenly you're in the snake pit. One dominant force takes over and now no matter what you post you're an idiot apparently and this closely relates to what would happen on youtube and you'd try to get in there just to find a nest of snakes. You lose either way They hiss hiss hisssssss hisssssss HISSSSS big fangs hissssHISSS one million snake eggs hatching in your brain. Try to imagine that, or a snake eating its own tail. It's obviously more abstract, there is no snake, but you have two kids playing around and someone's bound to get bitten and that's what happens here. Snakes from planes, snakes out of barrels, snakes in your hair. There's a Simpsons episode titled whacking day where Bart HITS the snake over the head and he's very confused and the Simpsons with their three fingers because they're cartoons go on into this shadowy lark without even having to go by their own volition and your eyes are filled with snakes because you're watching the damn show.

only pundits dabble with cultural marxism, pro or contra

no intellectual worth his salt will ever deal with those topics or lead a debate over twitter or depend on a meathead's podcast for views

>>9429020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUdxCj7IKCY

>>9428918
Those are not mutually exclusive. I'm an atheist but I explain faith to my fellow atheists all the time.

>>9428941
Monotheism is a weird Jewish invention, no wonder people have a hard time justifying it. The secular explanation of religion fits polytheism like a glove in my opinion.

>>9429020
FIRE WILL CLEANSE EVERYTHING.

>>9429043
> no wonder people have a hard time justifying it
And that's why the also pray to the saints and to the mother of god and the son of god and the dog of god.

why am I reading every post in this thread in Jordan Peterson's voice and why do I like it

>>9429047
kek

>>9429073
But that's just a consequence of standing on a foundation of European Paganism. Jews and Muslims don't seem to have a problem with pure monotheism.
There's this meme that Christianity was a rigid religion that didn't adapt to Europe but rather adapted Europe to itself, well, bullshit. Christianity fused with preexisting European religions, just like any other religion in history fused with the preexisting beliefs of the populations that adopted it.

how the fuck did this /pol/-tier right-wing religious nutjob even become a professor?
http://www.thespec.com/opinion-story/7207346-opinion-jordan-peterson-a-little-shy-on-proof/
>In a series of YouTube videos and interviews, Peterson has tied his objections to a conspiracy of Marxists taking residence in the Ontario premier's office. In an interview with the website C2C Journal, he suggests these Marxists will imprison anyone who finds themselves on the wrong side of a rampant culture war. His statements echo the hysteria of McCarthyism, when homosexuals were vilified as communist threats to the American way of life. Peterson never presents evidence of these claims, except legislation such as Bill C-16 and the Ontario Human Rights Code. The claims don't bear much credibility under even the most cursory scrutiny, from either academics or anyone with a passing familiarity with Canadian government.

he's a fucking fraud, and deserves to have his academic credentials revoked for the bullshit he spews constantly

>>9429130
That's a strawman. I can tell from some of the words and from seeing quite a few strawmen in my time.

>>9429105
Christianity is the most "pagan" of the three but Islam and Judaism are pathological to the core and they aren't very monotheistic either, they have many supernatural characters and phenomena but they mostly worship one god. In Islam Muhammed is let's say highly regarded as a warrior demigod and they pray towards a literal monolith, only the Jews seem to be half committed to this monotheism business but even then it's basically organized crime: the religion.

>>9429130
Nigger, his answer to immigrants replacing a country's native population is "just find a wife and pump out 5 kids plus if you're conservative those immigrants are actually your allies!". He's an actual centrist but that means he's going to piss off both sides.

>>9429130

>Patrick G. Watson is a lecturer in the sociology department and social psychology program

Into the trash it goes

>>9429130
Another sour-grapes criticism.

I checked on Peterson's salary (http://www.ontariosunshinelist.com/people/bsfytg)...)... he's already making a pile. Add $21000/month from patreon and I guess you're laughing.

If he is making that much from Patreon, I'm even more disgusted by his begging for his research to be funded. Fucking pay your fucking students yourself if you're making that. An RA at Toronto scarcely makes enough to get by and this guy's sleeping on a pile of money.

>>9428918
>problem of evil
So he has a middle schooler's understanding of God?

>>9429264
>and this guy's sleeping on a pile of money
Well I guess now you gotta go to the Archetypical Drogan's Lair and take its gold, just like Frodo.

>>9429271
Well shit... I just might.

Damn... I never thought he'd become the dragon he was warning us against.

>>9427253
>fourth wave feminism and being anti-politically correct

For a long time I would've tended to agree that these things are indeed inane. But his opposition here is not so much the existence of things like non-binary pronouns but the codification of such things into legislation. I think, when an issue escapes the realm of the irritating think piece and actually becomes law, that is an appropriate time to step in, I think that is the point where it stops being inane.

U of T asked him to stop talking about the issue because they were worried they would face legal repercussions just for DISCUSSING the matter.

he's a Nazi

>>9429360
wtf I love Peterson now

>>9427880
I think it's quite telling that on any one of his Youtube videos you'll find heaps and heaps of comments along the lines of "Dr Peterson has changed my life" etc. and each of these comments will itself have hundreds of likes. Clearly the dictum of "get yourself together for chrissake!" has been lacking from the lives of many many young people across the Western world.

I feel like this is a message we are taught as little kids but we stop hearing as we grow up - at least in my experience. I think it is similar to the pushback we see against the cultural appropriation argument. From the 60s onwards we are taught as kids to see past skin colour. That tolerance means viewing everyone as equal and essentially, the same. Now the public sphere is dominated by rhetoric suggesting that in fact you ARE racist for seeing the world this way, that in fact we are irreconcilably different and should therefore we treated differently. I don't know if this former message is still taught to young kids, it's been a long time since I was in primary school.

>>9427215
I hate this fucking picture. He looks like an L.A. Noire character.

Honestly I am a fan of Peterson and I followed him for a long long time before I learnt that he was some sort of alt-right idol. I don't think any of his opinions are particularly right-wing and I think you would find plenty of the left (such as myself) who agree with him. Leftist politics and virtue are not mutually exclusive. However as the Left came to be more and more defined by special interest politics (which until the 60s it of course was not) the rhetoric of virtue got left behind, not out of disregard but out of carelessness. That is how virtue became the domain of the Right, not because the Right are particularly virtuous.

"Do not ask what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country!" - these words came out of the mouth of a Democrat, but you can hardly imagine hearing such words today uttered by social liberals, who resort to the courts and the legislature to win battles rather than the personal.

>>9429020
>there is no snake, but you have two kids
Laff

I'm not able to take him seriously because of his silly Canadian accent.

4chan aphorisms

The reason the cunt focuses on raping idpol is because it's enormously relevant to scholarly profession in Canadian universities, he's not just railing against it because he's /pol/ but because it's a legitimate threat to Canadian politics and education
It's not "inane" at all when it is visibly destroying the top university in your country which you are a professor at. You don't understand how bad it really is.

>>9429375
>I think it's quite telling that on any one of his Youtube videos you'll find heaps and heaps of comments along the lines of "Dr Peterson has changed my life" etc. and each of these comments will itself have hundreds of likes. Clearly the dictum of "get yourself together for chrissake!" has been lacking from the lives of many many young people across the Western world.
And I'm one of those people. Things I personally took from Maps of Meaning, which stopped me from playing vidya all day and put me on the path of becoming a functioning individual:
>the world is a scary place and it's not gonna get any better
>but you can make your own life easier if you improve yourself
>you become what you practice
>you must conquer your fears
>you must reconcile with your dark side
>you should base your opinion of people on how they act rather than on what they're saying
>religion is not just the holy books, but also the community, and the values believers themselves don't always understand
>if people believe some things exist, they are, in a way, real, and not only to them

And yeah, yeah, I know that <philosopher name>, whom I didn't read already said that, and it's a glorified self-help and all that. If it's a scam I wish to be scammed like that again.

He has good and bad points but he makes the communist larpers on /lit/ butthurt, thats why people rage he's a joke

>>9427667
Ahh shit, thought I'd been memed

>>9427628
That's basically Anselm's ontological argument: if we can't be sure of God then we can't really be sure of anything.

>>9429454
>he makes the communist larpers on /lit/ butthurt
this is what I like about him, although his rants can get a bit too self-indulgently 'poetic' IMO. But I guess some like persuasive discourse, my fear is that most don't identify it and can't separate it from the rest of the content.

I just wish he was less of a rhetorician when it comes to Christian apologetics. Either declare yourself an agnostic Christian and admit that your agenda is to make 'cultural Christians' an acceptable identity category in the Christian community, or fully embrace Christian theism and speak about faith as a guiding principle. I find his pussyfooting particularly annoying and he clearly derives values from a Christian ethical framework and wants people to see it in his light, but him dodging any question on supernatural claims reveals his agenda and makes him a mere rhetorician. Whether it's the agnotsic Christian stance or actual Christian, there is nothing special about the way he interacts with Christianity - I just want him to be honest about it.

For the ones who said that the point is to debunk identity politics and that's why he is important:

Judith Butler did so in the 1990.

Move on, read a book, stop to occult your resentment about women and minorities into some kind of crippled intelectualism.

>>9429511
Judith Butler didn't stop the codification of identity politics into the legislative

>>9429511

I think this thread is just a failed /pol/ invasion with them conversing only among themselves, attempting, for whatever reason, to promote this Peterson guy.

He has absolutely 0 literary context. I mean, I've saged this post but fuck if I'm going to report the thread, fuck captcha.

>>9429530
If you report this thread you might as well report every single philosophy thread on this board as well and I've never been to /pol/

>>9429530
this, I refuse to believe this many people on /lit/ actually take this idiot seriously

>>9429538

>>>/pol/

>>9429540

Thank you.

>>9429407

>implying there's anything left to destroy

>E-celeb discussions on /lit/.

FUCK OFF.

HOLY.....

>>9429130
Except he is entirely correct and homosexuals are a subversive threat

>>9429615
wow, so edgy XDDDDD

>>9429633
It's true. Homosexuals are forced due to their subversion of traditional morality, family life, and religion.

>>9427628
If you replace 'God' with 'universal object' or something akin to a super-object like the universe-of-discourse itself, it doesn't seem as ridiculous. God as a measure of uncertainty and the remainder given after a subtraction of a finite set of axiom actually does make sense and Peterson has talked about it before. But without any of these prefixes, it does sound pretty dumb.

>>9427628
What an embarrassing misunderstanding of godel.

>>9429689
>God as a measure of uncertainty and the remainder given after a subtraction of a finite set of axiom actually does make
this sentence doesn't though

>>9429648
lmao homosexuality has been completely tamed and reconciled with bourgie values. Talk to a gay man in the 70's about gay marriage and he would laugh you out of the room. There is nothing subversive or radical about the modern phenomenon of homosexuality.

He's not a joke, but he is getting caught up in his persona I think, even though he says publicly that he's trying not to.

The sad thing is that there's a lot of young men at his talks who probably look at him as some sort of father figure because they've been raised by single mothers.

>>9429511
Where does she do this? Genuine question, in my understanding Judith Butler has been a huge proponent of non-binary and infinite gender and sexual identities so I see her as a force that gave academic backing for identity politics

>>9429407
I love you mum

>>9427249

What utter drivel.

>>9427880

But all his "psychology" is based on philosophy that usually isn't even right. He's another person who says "things that sound right" but really aren't, much like Stefan Molyneux.

I agree a new kind of psychology is needed to deal with 21st century psychological problems, but being a reactionary is the complete opposite way to solve them.

>>9428876
then why does he dodge the question. I wouldn't have a problem with him identifying as an agnostic Christian who derives value from Chrisitian ethics. Heck, I wouldn't even mind him being an actual Christian who lays the foundation of his beliefs on faith and then proceeds to talk about that in an interesting way. But why is he so nervous about being clear about this? There is no third option.

>>9429858
All her exposition is arround the imposibility of giving a foundational ground to feminism (the notion of women is not closed, total, absolute) and she expands that to any politics which could be ground on an identity.

Identity, individual is an ilusion. That's why Lacan is somehow important and interesant to her.

For me the reading of The gender trouble was quite hippie, actually. Her recent works also points towards vulnerabilities which would be the commond denominator of all bodies.

I know my exposition has been shit but just read the book and stop believing the misinfo which is always surrounding feminism- Identity politics has been a tool of capitalism in order to fagocitate feminism postcolonialism and so on, but those ideologies are inherent anticapitalist so do the math

>>9429918
Well he's not exactly a reactionary.

He was a member of the NDP in Canada for 20 years.

What he is doing is trying to get people to see Left and Right politics not as antagonistic, but as a dialectic.

Someone who claims that the radical left and radical right is equally as dangerous, obviously can't be called a reactionary.

>>9429928

I don't think they are dangerous, and I also think the alt_right is a mirror image of the progressive left. It is post-structuralist inter-sectionalism applied to white people instead of minorities.

But the fact is that the majority of people just don't care. This "culture war" is a war among the upper class, as it always is. The majority of the population, who are uneducated, don't learn of this stuff until well after the fact when the upper classes have moved onto something else.

>>9429935
You underestimate the lower classes m8.

Why do you think Trump won the election?

It's obviously because of the Democrats incessant noise about Idpol.

>>9427249
That hits a little too close to home.

>>9429754
>>9427652
>>9427660
>>9427678
>>9427681
>>9427699
>>9427813
>>9427995
>>9428836
>>9429504
>>9429754
>not a single post actually refuting this
>hahah what an absurd and baseless claim too bad we can't actually substantiate way
impressive bandwagon faggotry as ever

>>9429944
Isn't it rather because they didn't provide any Idpol that caters to poor white people? Trump's campaign reached a level of escapism and fantasy wish-fulfillmind even the biggest tumblr whores couldn't achieve. His message was basically, you are a beautiful white (literally, of course) snowflake that deserves to live in an idealized 50s world, where you can freely live out your identity as a strong, white myn that doesn't bow down to the evil progress-archy.

>>9429990
substantiate why*

>>9429990
because it's not even worth addressing unless he intended it as some spooky aphorism. taking faith in god as axiomatic does not do away with other possible contradicting axioms, therefore faith in god isn't a prerequisite for all proof.

>>9429990
I'm honestly rathe clueless about Gödel, but Kant figured out the necessity of THINKING god over 200 years ago, it's called the trancendental ideal. He also proved that this isn't the same as actually proving the existence of god. It's all in the first critique, maybe the most famous book in the history of philosophy. Peterson is just embarassingly clueless about anything philosophy.

>>9430003
faith in god is a rejecting of axioms

essentially stating that cause and effect has a starting point divorced from it

retard

>>9430013
>implying that the cause and effect model having a starting point divorced from it is only compatible with deism or theism

wew

>>9427628

There is no reason without God

Pretty solid to me

>>9430024
Fundamentally, yes. If the universe is infinite, the infinite suggests something divine. God is a catch all phrase.

>>9430026
>God is a catch all phrase

Then he should define it as such and separate it from his Christian rhetoric.

>>9430033
It's not like he said Jesus. To assume he is referring to a specific god-entity suggests a total lack of comprehension. It's obvious what is meant given the context.

>>9430039
>muh 'I'm not comfortable with not knowing shit, so deism and/or the divine are the only reasonable explanations for cause and effect having a starting point divorced from it'
>muh 'but god is all possible sets of such explanations'
>muh aphorisms

>all these posts where spergy basement dwellers rave over self-help youtube videos
How embarrassing, burgerland should be nuked.

>>9427215
Regardless of what you think of some of his ideas, he's very brave and has stood up to the sjws and government.

>>9430122
Back to the containment board retard.

>>9430128
>these things aren't real or threatening
>now hurry up and be silenced for disagreeing

>>9430147
>>9430128

>>9430147
shoo shoo

>>>/pol/

>>9430122
Implying there's anything brave about 'standing up' to a man who likes to dress and act like a woman.

>>9430196
If only that was what he was doing.

>>9429264

Plus the GoFundMe, the paypal donation on his site, the self help course he sells, the paid lectures he puts on for $30 a ticket...

>>9429994

t. bicoastal cocksucker liberal

he won because the media ignored the terrible trade deficit USA found itself in for 20 years and he won because both the Republican and Democratic Party exported jobs to China and let them slap tariffs on American products without protecting our own economy.

he won because W. and Hussein sold the people out to globalist corporations

>>9430758
>reviving a cancerous thread only to bring up an even more cancerous argument not at all related to the thread.

>>9427215
his voice sounds like a puppet's

>>9430770

i got triggered when he claimed that the trump campaign was escapist and an exercise in wish fulfillment

>>9427215
He does a good enough job himself, just watch his lectures,

>>9427253
Only because you believe it's inane doesn't mean it's not. And it's not. Nowadays we're being force-fed with this pseudo-ideology. We shouldn't trivialise and rationalise bullshit.

Just watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wllc5gSc-N8

>>9427413
>>9427421
>>9428477
I hate this new meme.

>>9427628
You know he's right. Twitter is just a very very bad medium for communicating ideas on a higher level than trumpspeak.

>>9429990
You're right, they should all be writing diatribes to refute this twitter post.

So, is this guy the new Sam Harris?

>>9427502
>>9427533
He is selling some app for self actualizing through answering questions and writing essays and such.
It costs money, but he gave it away for free with a code word "PEPE" and tweeted it at 4chan.

https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/851464151708950528

>>9430813
Except thats not what Godel says at all.

>>9427215
He isn't. But it'll be fun reading people's rationalization of the idea that he his.

>>9427880
He has a serious science-man syndrome. He is good at one field (criminal psychology), and thinks this makes him good at all fields.
We need to help our scientists realize that they are specialists, not "wise men" who know everything.

I wouldn't question my dentist's expertise or knowledge, but I wouldn't ask him to help me buy a car either.

zugychef@gmail.com

>>9429843
This. I'm sometimes concerned about the parroting I hearof his ideas. His ideas are academically valid, and I think it's
laudable thathe can pitch them to a general audience, something that too few academics ever try to do. But he inadvertently creates an army of pseuds that suddenly know Jung, Nietzsche and Solzhenitsyn from the Coles Notes nuggets he quotes in his lectures.

I think the best he's done as a more public figure is distil it to taking responsibility for your own life, not being a damned victim, and sorting yourself out. It's existentialism by another name and it's sorely needed in public discourse now.

>>9429990
>Peterson literally wrotes it's been proven you can't prove anything
>thinking this needs to be formally refuted

>>9429990
It's a complete misunderstand of Godel's work which literally requires no refutation.

>>9427555
Her actions are based on a model where the sweet mercy of a mother is a balm for the harshness of the father and the world. Go into the world. Be hard on yourself. Take control of your life, turn on the tap of challenge and productive hardship until your mother's unconditional love is a suitable counterpoint and your family's goal states are equilibrated.

>>9427776
>your mothers unconditional love is toxic

I hate that I read this but I am certain this is true.

>>9430800
Is it bad that the most offensive thing in that for me was the characterization of Gerard Depardieu as a french treasure (he arguably is) instead of a disgusting rapist?

Honestly I feel like you could rationally discuss whether or not sexuality is a spectrum with Nye and the conversation could produce fruit.

He delineates postmodernism. When his supporters parrot his arguments against the concept, it becomes clear that they don't know what the word means.

>>9427264
>>9428020
>people disparaging Peterson as a goofy panderer to the alt-right
>while preferring Sam Harris
What a fucking joke. Sam Harris has some decent points but drowns it in moronic, self-serving myopia.

>>9430011
How? He essentially just agrees with Kant, in his own words.

>>9428159
>>9428150

To be fair, it definitely doesn't represent everyone but man, oh man, is it hard dealing with those kinds of people IRL.

'Yo, if you hate your life as much as you say, you could always do something about it. For me, reading up on psychology and philosophy has helped a lot. Maybe do something like that, although I'm not saying what worked for me would help you. Oh, right, you'd rather just watch TV, browse Tumblr and write harry potter fan-fic while not actually working on what it is that makes you unhappy.'

I honestly think they CAN'T be helped. I just had to let it go in the end, knowing they'll probably grow out of it once they get the fuck out of university. But until that day they will always argue against it.

>>9428903
People (men, in case you have difficulty with women) disagree on what is brave or honourable quite often. It's one of the reasons why we have such a strong pressure to codify these things.

>>9430830
Free for one week. He's pandering in order to shill

>>9430074
Aphorisms are useful.

>>9430987
1. He didn't say that in that image.
2. All logic hinges on given facts that are unproven (or circularly proven in a large enough context); this is the entire concept behind axioms.

>>9431053
He's a joke because he accurately and precisely describes postmodernism?

I have heard people talk about Peterson being BTFO by Sam Harris in a long discussion.

Can someone link me to this?

Another religious person who thinks morals and virtues can/should be derived from false a premise. Only because those morals and virtues are relative to his own interests. Just another secondhand filter trying to convince common folk.

>>9431211
>All logic hinges on given facts that are unproven (or circularly proven in a large enough context); this is the entire concept behind axioms.

What the fuck are you talking about?
That is definitely not the concept behind axioms.

>>9431220

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8TDbXO6dkk

>>9431281
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gdpyzwOOYY (literally spend over two hours on an epistemic wankfest, not agreeing what is true)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8TDbXO6dkk&t=3044s (religion and shit)

>>9430987

Godel's incompleteness theorems don't say you can't prove anything.

They say there are SOME statements that cannot be proven (certain weird self-referential statements are the only ones that have been proven to be unprovable).

This is a far cry from you can't prove anything.

>>9427502
>Sounds like Kermit
Yeah, he knows

>>9427215
He's the frogposter of modern philosophy.

>>9431337
> 110 minutes of Ben Stiller and """Dr.""" Jordan Beterson
What is the target demographic for this sort of crap?

>>9429990
proof is impossible without axiom. Thus faith in Jupiter and Roman deities is a prerequisite for all proof.

If you don't refute this in the most autistic way possible my statement holds validity.

This is fucking 4chan not a debate you mong.

>>9431385

Pseudo-intellectuals who want to feel smart by engaging with seemingly complex ideas (which don't actually go beyond high-school philosophy class level), as long as it doesn't actually tax them or go against what they already believe in any way.

>>9431414
>>9431414
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

>>9431452
you're retarded it's the exact same thing. He's referring to the Christian god, or at best he's referring to the "judeo-christian" (I know it's retarded term) god. Look at how he capitalises 'G', look at how he says "God" and not "a god". He's not even saying faith in the divine or faith in a deity is required, he's flatout saying you must be of the Christian faith.

How about you follow anon's advice and debunk what I just said as autistically as possible. Otherwise my post is valid.

Just another pseudo-intellectual reactionary that has no idea what the words "Marxist" and "postmodernist" mean. Who cares? Stop acting as if his inane theories have any merit.

>>9428853
what does that even fucking mean? Jesus I hate people who roleplay as philosophers, they just throw out some shit no one including themselves probably understand. explain the concept of "God" as "a "something" in the collective subconcious of the humanity". Explain that or you're just some retard trying to sound smart (i.e. a philosopher).

>>9431500
Even Marxists and postmodernists don't even know what the words Marxism and postmodernism mean.

>>9431326
What do you think an axiom is? Why do we have them? What is meant when you say something is "axiomatic"?

ITT

>>9431567
is this supposed to be funny or something??

>>9431554
they're academic terms though.

>>9431574
I'll admit it, I laughed.

>>9431567
My Utopia!! NOOOOOOO!!

>>9431554

>implying "words" "mean" anything to enlightened postmodernists such as myself

>>9431467
>zero mention of Christianity
>but he's a fucking white male Christian, he's WRONG
ok anon

what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed as such, a logical person would understand god in this context like >>9428853
describes

but feel free to make wild assumptions because you refuse to entertain the worth of people you know you're suppose to disagree with

it's the modern intellectual way after all

>>9431661
God is the name used by Christians to refer to their god. Anon you're a fucking retard, I'm a religious Catholic. The level to which alt-right faggots will go to defend someone who's only milking their faggy movement to line his pockets is incredible. And no I'm not a liberal.

>a logical person would understand god
wrong already. God, not god. I can tell you were never learned anything about religion so no wonder bullshit defence arguements that rely on not knowing shit about any Christian faith work on you.

>what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed as such
can be said for every post itt AND for what Peterson said

retarded alt-right fag can't comprehend that someone who agrees with 90% his politics can disagree with him on what an e-celeb says

>>9431683
Question for you.
Do Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

>>9431686
obviously not because they read different scriptures that expand on their god. It's like if someone says they think Jimmy Saville is a model individual in the 90's vs. after his death and more information came out, they're two funamentally different figures.

>>9431695
They all worship the same God you moron, they each have a different understanding of him but they all worship the same one , that's what monotheism is.There is only ONE creator.

Peterson doesn't believe the supernatural stuff in the Bible actually happened, he knows they're just stories, but he thinks that there's a lot of important meaning in those stories, and that the morals of Christianity are a good thing for people to live by.

>>9431708
>all monotheists worship the same god

kek

>>9431683
>muh capital letter
it's not exclusively Christian to capitalize the g in god you mongoloid

>>9431717
it actually is. If Muslims or Jews refer to their god they say "God", but they only call him that if they're talking around Christians. And for Muslims that's extremely rare. If they only refer to him as such around Christians, yes, 'God' is Christian. And I already said God is a Judeo-Christian term if we're going to give it the broadest definition.

Christians, Muslims, and Jews believe that God revealed himself to Abraham, and that's the only God that exists.

>>9431727
it actually isn't

you niggers are genuinely pitiful. if you want to talk about god, fine, do so, but maybe share something worthwhile about faith, don't sperg around 'proof is impossible without deism'. does anyone genuinely believe that to the extent where they can make an effort to defend that position?

>>9431827
it's a logical inference

you ask where did something come from
you give the explanation
you ask where whatever is involved in said explanation came from etc

the idea of causality is natural to us, it's not logical, it IS logic

but following you have to either go on forever or come to a causeless causer, both are representative of god

>>9431827
>you niggers
stopped reading there

>>9427628
I see people are throwing a fit over the word "God" here. I agree that he made a mistake by using it, he could and should have written that differently. Had he simply said "certain axioms are a prerequisite for all proof" I think no one would have a problem agreeing with him.

>>9431854
I only kept reading because of the inclusion of that word desu

>>9431853
but anon, I will concede to your point on logic - it is possible to imagine an epistemic model that is counter-intuitive for us and goes against cause-effect relations. but that doesn't get you to god anon. it gets you to 'I don't know'.
>>9431854
oh, I'm sorry, I was trying to be jovial.

>>9431889
no it gets to you I can't know

god is the unknowable

>>9431965
>can't know
you might be right, but I wouldn't rush to close our epistemic toolbox just yet
>god is the unknowable
okay, fine. I've seen some apologists towing this line of discourse and I don't mind apologetics that refine theism and secularise it, but surely most of these people wouldn't be accepted as Christians or any other members of Abrahamic religions.

>>9429904
manchild detected

autism